Incredible passionate debate. Loved this. The professor questions many things we all struggle to understand, BUT, I can say from my own personal experience that I didn't fully understand those passages until I thoroughly researched them myself. Unfortunately there are many things lost in translation. Cliff is just amazing on his toes and I'm happy we have people like him to defend Christianity.
As far as being cursed as a slave there is a spiritual aspect. The bible says that we are either a slave to Christ or a slave to sin. When we sin, we become a slave to sin. The spiritual laws that hold this universe together have consequences that God gives us instructions on how to avoid breaking these laws and to keep us safe from spiritual consequences that effect us in the physical. When we sin, we come into agreement with dark forces. This will pass on 'curses' to our children until these agreements are broken. This isn't done as a punishment. It is just part of the laws of the universe that hold everything together. God's word gives us instructions on how to walk as light in the darkness so that it can not overcome us, so we can remain safe, and in his eternal love and light.
The Canaanites were infested with Nephilim aka "sons of the fallen angels" aka DEMONS. I cant believe apologists don't bring this up. At one point Abraham & his sons are commanded, by God, to leave the Canaanites alone because "their sin has yet come to fullness". They became what Noah prophesied in that story where he drinks wine and sits up and prophecies "Cursed be Caanan, lowest of slaves". The Canaanites literally became the Nephilim's/sons of the fallen angels (what we know as DEMONS, after they become disembodied) "slaves" for lack of a better word. If your entire society were slaves to demonic forces.......YYYEEEAAAAHHHH, its better to wipe you COMPLETLEY, from the face of the earth than to let you spread that any further. Apologists come at this from the view that "God commanded the Israelites to wipe out a whole race of people" letting those challenging them have that "home turf", when it shouldn't even be allowed to go that far. If your entire society are "skin suits for the demonic realm", you aren't just "some society that God said to kill", you(the Israelites) are under a Holy decree to exterminate an infestation(the Canaanites) so the world that existed "preflood" doesn't repeat itself. They were no longer a "people", their "human DNA" had literally been compromised. All of the Rephaim/Anakim/Zumzumim/Nephalim were Canaanite, THAT is what was being commanded to be destroyed.....not, "some people".
That professor is smart and eloquent with his words, problem is he can't reconcile the fact that God in the Bible will not conform to the box of what he wants God to be. God is just. And knows what's best for us, this professor is so knowledgeable but his mind just won't open up to what is True amd hates the Bible cause it doesn't conform to his belief. I hope he changes his mind, in Jesus' name.
What I always see in common with atheists is that they believe that they are more righteous than God so there alternative to God is themselves or us humans are more just and more righteous.. yeah I'll take God over any human on this planet
@@andrewoconnellperth There are no contradictions in the bible. Just people that claim there are. And those folks haven't read it 99.9999% of the time. They are just people who want to do what they want, and live in sin, so when they hear someone point out contradictions they jump on them and repeat them to others. I used to think the bible was full of contradictions. Then I searched for information and learned I was ignorant, literally every time. As soon as I read the explanation I immediately and intuitively knew it was correct and that the person who originally passed the contradiction onto me had no idea what they were talking about. Even Jordan Peterson, a brilliant guy, thought there were contradictions until he got absolutely schooled and I could see that was pretty tough for his ego to reconcile with. Just like Billy Carson sounded like he was onto something until his entire career got ended by Wes Huff, an actual biblical scholar. And even people who aren't religious acknowledged how quickly Huff dismantled Carson.
@@nathanshackelford7812 Imagine a Venn diagram - two interlocking circles. One of them is "faith", the other is “reason”. In the middle there is some overlap - where we can reason about our faith - otherwise known as theology. The problem is, Cliff moves freely and conveniently among these three zones - “faith”, “reason”, and the middle zone “theology” to suit his purposes for these so-called “debates”. His opponents often lose or look silly because no sooner have they accepted the “rules of engagement” than Cliff has created a new “game”. Cliff situates himself as BOTH theologian AND evangelist during these so-called debates, which is not only “intellectually dishonest” - his all-time favourite phrase - but immature - switching the goal-posts when it suits him - expounding his faith stridently when the debate gets too difficult for him, switching back to rational arguments when someone expresses their belief/s. To cut a long story short, I will not bother to point out what I believe are contradictions in the bible because after having read your dogmatic and evangelical response - and I use those words not to insult you but simply to describe your response - I’m not confident that something I present THEOLOGICALLY will be met by a strong THEOLOGICAL counterargument on your part but by a zealous, ultimately ad hominen argument whose purpose it is to suggest that there is ultimately something wrong with ME - the modus operandi of the dogmatic, including Cliff, commonly known as bullying and gaslighting. So, I fear that despite my age, level of education, including religious education, and level of life experience, I will be told by you in some way, shape, or form - no matter how striking the contradiction I set before you - that I haven’t yet quite “seen the light”.
@@nathanshackelford7812then Adam and Eve were the first humans on earth and they had Cain and able, right? Cain and Able had wives, right? Where did they get wives from? Did they marry their sisters?
@sarahporter1267 absolutely, despite the thoughts transgressed toward one another they extended a little love because we must love our neighbors but always rebuke sin
that passage in deoteronomy demonstrates the patience of the almighty living God, if you read and understood the story of those people whom God destroyed , the fact that He waited 400 years for them to repent, God has fore knowledge and still he waited, God is good read the bible 🎉❤
Valid point about God waiting patiently for 400 yrs! Many parents will punish their children after 1 bad act & give harsh consequences. Would a human parent wait 400 times let alone 400 yrs if we lived that long? I don't believe our "nature" would last! God did wait. Free will caused the demise of the families & their children just like the present times. I pray we all take God more SERIOUSLY than ever!
the first time I read the whole bible I was anticipating seeing a cruel and ridiculous God in the old testament. I was shocked to find that it is overwhelmingly about a patient and forgiving God that just doesn’t stop forgiving and sending guidance and warnings.
Yeshua taught the Torah the apostles taught Torah even to the gentiles. Im not a Christian can't call myself that due to the Christian faiths teachings and pagan holidays they celebrate. I'm an evrim (Hebrew means Israelite that crossed the Jordan , or means to cross over.) remember the apostles didnt call them selves christians. That is something the church started calling themselves. I believe in the Hebrew Yeshua not the Greek jesus
The Canaanites were infested with Nephilim aka "sons of the fallen angels" aka DEMONS. I cant believe apologists don't bring this up. At one point Abraham & his sons are commanded, by God, to leave the Canaanites alone because "their sin has yet come to fullness". They became what Noah prophesied in that story where he drinks wine and sits up and prophecies "Cursed be Caanan, lowest of slaves". The Canaanites literally became the Nephilim's/sons of the fallen angels (what we know as DEMONS, after they become disembodied) "slaves" for lack of a better word. If your entire society were slaves to demonic forces.......YYYEEEAAAAHHHH, its better to wipe you COMPLETLEY, from the face of the earth than to let you spread that any further. Apologists come at this from the view that "God commanded the Israelites to wipe out a whole race of people" letting those challenging them have that "home turf", when it shouldn't even be allowed to go that far. If your entire society are "skin suits for the demonic realm", you aren't just "some society that God said to kill", you(the Israelites) are under a Holy decree to exterminate an infestation(the Canaanites) so the world that existed "preflood" doesn't repeat itself. They were no longer a "people", their "human DNA" had literally been compromised. All of the Rephaim/Anakim/Zumzumim/Nephalim were Canaanite, THAT is what was being commanded to be destroyed.....not, "some people".
He blasphemed God and his profession of believing in Christ made him a hypocrite.You cannot accuse God of commiting crimes against humanity and at the same time profess to love Jesus .
1 Corinthians 2:11 conveys the message that only the Spirit of God can comprehend the thoughts of God and that only a person's own spirit can know their thoughts. The verse also suggests that to know God, one must be dependent on, in step with, and desperate for the Spirit of God. The verse reads, "For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God". The Professor has to understand that you can not comprehend the spiritual things with human understanding.
Thank you Jesus for this two fathers. Did you see that! They later greeted and if I observed well, professor later agree to the truth (which i believe he was just looking for).
As a follower or Christ and a person who loves wisdom and articulation. I love the way Cliffe delivers the message of God and stands on business on his belief. Once I go back home to NY, I must drop by his church and meet him.
i love how they both hug at the end. even though there was alot of shouting and harsh words i have no doubt both of them truly hold one anouther to a high standard, jesus proves that true genuine love can trickle down hundreds of generations and inspire truly meaningful conversations.
Just because scripture has been interpreted wrongly does not mean that scripture is questionable. People are questionable. So if you feel challenged, study and pray. Also, Luther later understood that there was indeed no contradiction between Paul and James. Furthermore, we should keep from treating theologians as divine persons. They are human, prone to err just like any of us.
There is a difference between a description and a prescription. Describing what happened in the culture, is different than saying what SHOULD happen in the future. Also, intention matters. Ham had the intention to expose and embarrass his father and engage in sexual immorality with him while he was drunk. Love and Justice. God is just, God is holy, God defines what sin is, and God defines what evil is. First, if God does not exist, there is no such thing as good or evil. Second, God would not be good if he did not punish evil, especially those with evil intentions in their heart. Love always protects, how can he protect those who love him if those who hate him are actively harming those who love him? He forgives all who will turn to him and submit to his will and his good and moral laws. But given the fact that he is the only just able to enact perfect justice, then he knows exactly who deserves what, and who will never change. Also, he is the author of life, he if can give life back, he has full authority to take it away. Furthermore, death is inevitable in the physical form, but God determines who he brings into his presence for eternity. A loving God would never force someone into an eternity of submission to him if it was against their will. Thus, God enacted his passive wrath, but letting people choose their own fate, because love demands choice. There are many interpretations of scripture that are actively under debate. People spend their entire lives attempting to accurately understand scripture, both what it meant when it was written, and what it means for us today. People all throughout history have used religion to justify evil, it doesn't mean the text endorses it, it means anyone can take anything out of context and read modern day interpretations and culture into the ancient writings. You can't read today into the past, because language and culture changes. Meanings change, slang changes, fads change. You have to understand how the author understood it, what theybwere trying to communicate, and who the intended reader was going to be, and how they would have read or understood or interpretted it. Becauze likely, it would have been very different that how most might interpretations or understand it today, given how much time has gone by and how much has changed especially in terms of language, but culture and economy and governments, and knowledge of the rest of world geography. They spoke to people who lived in that culture; who understood the analogies they used, who spoke the language they originally used, who understood the tone and humor and idioms of the day we could never know about. (For example, A butt-dial and a booty-call...to someone 2000 years later translating it, it would appear to be the same thing...but those are clearly referring to two completely separate events, but only because we understand the language and the culture references. You cannot claim to know more than an all knowing all powerful omnipresent God who exists outside of time space and matter, given the fact that he created all of it, he must exist outside it, beyond it, through it, and must be unaffected by it. He designed a universe with laws and order in a way that it can be understood at all. The only way you can employ logic as useful is if there is something which exists that can be understood. Knowledge, information. Information has never come from non-life. No one believes a book came together by accident, or that a computer which didn't exist yet designed itself. No one believes a city with buildings and roads and scy scrapers happened over billions of years by random chance and a series or rearranging molecules. No, you see something was built, you innately know there was a builder. You see something painted, you know there was a painter. You see a book, you know it had an author. And yet, we see DNA which is a vastly complicated language of life itself, and an infinitely complex cell the closer we look, the more proof it is against evolution, and yet, people believe it cane about on accident and by random chance. Then how can you trust your own logic if it's merely a random collection of chemicals firing off neurons at random by accident? There is a belief which is illogical, and that is not the Christian world view. There must be an unmoved mover. Something which set everything in motion and ensured it was governed in a way which maintained order. That's what we observe today. Laws which government matter, or the material, AND laws which government morality, or the immaterial, as well as laws which govern energy, and light, and everything else we observe. The only reason the scientific method is useful is because creation is predictable. Otherwise, there would be no sustainable order which we could expect. Over time, everything tends toward chaos, without intervention or work; without an opposing force to stop weathering and entropy. Everything tends toeard disorder, but we see order that exists thus, it had more order before. Meaning we came from a more orderly existence, and came to be as a conseqeuence of a life force using information to create. Your whole argument is invalid, on the basis that you have no basis for logic or evil if you say God does not exist. Thus, you must concede that he exists, though you claim you disagree. You cannot invoke reason if we are a random collection of chemicals which came together over billions of years as a consequence of trial and error trillions of times evolving from chaos into order over time without any intervention. That's irrational. Without a God, you can't call anything evil because there is no standard for what is or is not evil. You can claim God is Evil for enacting justice or injustice, but he IS the very standard of justice. Thus, you cant say anything he did was unjust, if that IS the thing itself. If the mass of the physical kilogram object changed, you can't say it's wrong, because it is literally the defintion of the kilogram is the weight of that very object. You can say it changed, but it's not wrong. You can say that's dumb or that you disagree, but you are not the standard. And you don't even have to understand the standard ir the moral law giver. All you have to do is trust that he gives good rules for life to follow, and trust he knows better because his knowledge and wisdom is infinite and timeless. Perhaps he knew the whole people group of the Canaanites were going to corrupt culture and people for generations, and it was merciful of God to prevent that from continuing long into the lives of their children. If you want to learn, there are things you can learn. If you insist you know everything, then you will learn nothing. I'm you wish to listen, you will be listened to. If you refuse to listen, you will not be heard. Yelling does not prove you are right and neither does cutting them off in the middle of their sentences while they are in the middle of providing an answer/response to your own question. Not something I would recommend that you teach your students. They learned something from you today, that you have a very difficult time being fair and just with someone else in a debate who merely draws a different conclusion from the same evidence. Those with understanding remain even tempered, and clearly you did not remain even tempered, proving your lack of understanding and your desperate attacks which were clear misinterpretations of the texts taken out of context and in a vacuum. He gave legitimate answers, and they weren't what you wanted to hear, that doesn't warrant you treating him the way you did with that level of tone and disrespect. He actually gave you a platform, and stood and listened carefully to your questions and provided answers he thoughtfully generated, and he answered them honestly and with genuine intention. At the same time, you were doing nothing but trying to push your own agenda and beliefs and bias by cherry-picking verses, which take time to research and understand.
They were both cooking. Both very smart and respectable individuals. Love content like this, and may God in his grace lead us all to what is right and correct us in our wrong ways. Love how they both hug each other with brotherly and Christlike embrace at the end ❤
I'm glad to see such a great debate. I believe this mans doubts are well founded, even if i dont agree with them. Like cliff said, when he had his doubts, he went to the original hebrew text to interpret his doubts, and with that he began to gain a deeper understanding. I see this as a net positive, and hopefully it can continue to move us all who view this video closer to god.
If you don’t realize your fallen state as a human being and desperately search for salvation, you will never see the transformational POWER In Bible with help of the Holy Spirit leading to our Lord Jesus Christ
Notice how the young man thought it was funny when he was a Satanist but was very serious and doubtful when this man found Jesus. I hope that young man also finds Jesus.
I’m convinced it’s harder to love the word without encountering Gods presence first… it’s harder to comprehend Hell without understanding order that God designed.
God doesn’t just go around destroying nations cause he wants to they sinned and he gave them ample time just like he’s giving us he gave them 400yrs that’s more than enough
I don’t think this professor realized that he was promoting the idea that we should put God to the test… Matthew 4:7 Follow God, trust God, his creation has proven his trustworthiness: Matthew 4:10, Romans 1:18-20
Why just because he's an atheist? How about you become a professor yourself and I will totally be convinced that it is easy to become a professor these days.
This professor thinks that the events he was referring to is a call to action that applies today and not only a command that only applied to those people at that time recorded in the Bible.
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Ham had relations with his *mother* (and likely, Canaan was the product which would explain the curse). Prior to reading Genesis 9:22 where Ham “uncovered the nakedness of his father” in Noah’s tent, please read Leviticus 18:7-8 (NASB is clearest): 7 “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother. You shall not uncover her nakedness.” 8 “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness.”
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
The inquisition was absolutely justifiable. A fifth column of the same descents of Pharisees allowed the import of barbarians onto Christian lands, and the most holy of Christian’s lands, in Europe. The Inquisition was necessary and justified.
Noah cursed Canaan, not God. God honored it, and I believe it was because Ham dishonored Noah. He has His reasons though. The professor is attempting to equate a curse from Noah to a commandment from God which shouldn't be. Remember that The God so many people call Good (because He is) is also The Same that slayed all of humanity once before. And that's what we know about. However this is also The Same God who created Man in the 1st place. This was a misdirected argument from the foundation.
The human arrogance knows no bounds. More than that, people will ask why it is God does not intervene when we want Him to. Yet when He does, people proclaim His actions as un-Godly.
The professor read Bibles partially. Next time read carefully Mr. Processor 😅 you cannot juge people behavior at that time at certain people with your today:s culture.
*This is my interpretation* Genesis 9:21-27: He drank the wine and became drunk and layed uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, walked and accidentally sawhis father naked he ran out and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a blanket, laid it on both their shoulders, walked in the tent and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father with out looking at there father. (Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father’s nakedness.) When Noah awoke from his being drunk and heard that his youngest son barged in his tent and saw him naked, he said, “caanan will be punished ; a he will listen to his brothers” He also said, “Blessed be the Lord . his brothers will be his keeper (bc hes not dealing with his disrespectful barging in self. May God help Japheth become responsible, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem, and let Canaan listen to him.”
Really? So if God will say that your relative will die today is okay for you? Based on what you said that God can determine how long someone lives, does that means he also has the power to kill someone.
@dnutwrry3018 I would grieve . God wants us to love people enough to be saddened by it. Originally there wasn't supposed to be death . I don't have the callous attitude about death you were reading into it , but I would and already have respected God's right to determine that. Its only the body that dies, and if anyone accepts God's free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ , they are in a perfect eternity with God .
Jesus said He is the only way to the Father . Jesus died to take the penalty for our sin . If anyone believes on the LORD Jesus Christ to be their Savior , trusting He is their Savior and rose again . All small children who die , go to heaven , even though they don't understand it's because of Jesus .
@@puglover8171 Even if the children are Muslim? Or whatever religion they will go to heaven? What if the children isn't baptized yet? So that means if a child that's from another religion will automatically go to heaven if they die? Will they not go to the heaven of their religion? So it is nonsense then, considering that they will not go to the concept of their religion instead go to the heaven of Christianity 🤣🤣
19:17 Jesus said “if anyone loves me, he will obey my words, and the father will love him.” He said “I do not come on my own authority… but to share the message given to me by my father.” From every message that Jesus preached he preached the word of God from the Old Testament and proclaimed it to be the word of God. Jesus is the truth, the word made flesh. When he speaks he does not speak of himself but from his father who sent him. He speaks the word of God. To say you follow Christ but do not accept the Old Testament in which Christ spoke of and taught from as the word of God is hypocrisy. Lean not on your own understanding. To say that you trust in your own moral compass and intuition above the judgment of God. Therefore taken a position as judge over God of the Old Testament and condemning him for his actions. You put yourself in authority over Christ and all that he taught. You cannot reject God the father while proclaiming Christ who sits at fathers right hand and does all his father commands and speaks the message that was given to Christ by his father. Genesis 1 God spoke “let there be light.” Gods word was sent out and creation was done by his word. Christ is the word of God made flesh to dwell among us. John says “nothing was made that was made apart from Christ.” Because Christ is the word of God and all that God spoke was done. Christ came as a messenger, as The messenger, the. Physical embodiment of the word of God. High priest, The Angel of the Lord (Angel means messenger from God), You cannot say you love him if you do not love the father and obey His words because His words and Christ words are one. “No one can come to the father except through me.” “Do you not know me Philip? how can you say show me the father, if you have seen me you have seen the father.”
5:40 in Hebrew “seeing a man’s nakedness” means having sex with their wife, so it means He had sex with his mom (probably because that would make him the head of the family) and the child’s name Canaan
Absolute BS. Thats not what the scripture says. It says Noah was naked in his tent BECAUSE he was drunk. And his 2 sons put clothing on him because he was literally naked.
@@mareksumguy1887 So you just ignore the argument of the idiom "nakedness of his father", that explains why such a heavy curse is laid to the child of the offender, and go by "Well, that's just how Noah is. He is a choleric."? If it makes you happy... Theologians who have known the original language have confirmed for hundreds of years that it is possible to read the story this way.
@@mareksumguy1887 Have you read the Bibile in the original text of Hebrew? If not, then the arrogance in your intelligence is unfounded....this person clearly spoke from a point of having studied. I haven't read the Hebrew text, but I've seen several cases in which every word was not translated in its fullness and contextual meaning. According to Cliffe, this is the case reagrding the point raised here.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
Am a christian and i think this was a good debate. The Judgment of God in the old testament is Tuff! But the behavior from humans in the old testament......Damn.
The Bible is the inspired word of God, it is the Holy Spirit that said exactly what was supposed to say. The God of the Old testament is the same God in the new he only made a new convenant. He advertise before punishing, he is patient, he is just, he punishes evil, he also forgives when we repen. He is the same yesterday 1000 years ago and 1000 years from now. The professor thinks that observing what Christ though is being a christian but Jesus gave a interesting description in John 3 by saying we need to be born again.. He is not born from the spirit of God. He is not a new creation, maybe he is becoming a new creature right now i dont know his heart. but by what im seeing he is not there yet. being christian mean Christ lives in you. I pray that the Lord bring him light and save him so he can look at those texts and this particular moment and see :) . i really enjoyed that exchange.. God bless Cliff and his ministry
So he basically thinks that the same way God asked people in the old testament to kill others he is doing that in modern times. And i disagree with that on the bases that the old testament was under an old covanate,so the circumstances and situations thuse people faced are different than they are today. Secondly We are under a new covenant that is different than the old one and the new one we are under is one were all we have to do is to put our trust and Faith in Jesus Christ and to spread the word to others,love our enemies and live according to those teachings. And i would also argue that looking at the old testament helps use understand that God hates evil and is just in doing at with it. And that the OT is something for use to look back on to see the mistakes and the sinful actions that those in the old testament had commited and for use to look at those and say "I won't make tht same mistake again, because these are the results" and I'm not saying that the results will be the same as it was during that time but i am saying that the OT is showing us the seriousness of sin and its effects on those around us. And Lastly o would also say that those who have used The Bible to condone slavery and other horrible acts in history are evil and i am not going to defend thst because thats ehat happened,but i can however say that instead of blaming the word of God and/or God himself for the actions and Choices of man who knew what they were doing were wrong and evil instead look through the scriptures find out if Jesus is reliable if the,of There is something you don't understand ask for help Study it and Find the answers, That's what God wants for you to know him to dig into his word and As humans we won't always understand Gods ways,but Looking at his track record i can say that whatever he does will be for his Glory and at the same time benefit u and fill u with abundant blessings and wisdom. Hope this helps God bless and stay strong (I'm 17 and still learning btw so idk everything😅) ✝️
The fact about arjuna is that By his logic even krishna was a bad God for correcting arjuna to stop thinking that way. And he dare try to play a Game of greatness and Cleopatra (like she played for power over egypt changing flags when necessary)
Natural reason? Reason is justification of something or an event. Where does that justification come from? THAT is the true question. So WHO's judgement is most true? The creation (man) or the Creator (God)?
They could have prayed to God, asking Him to save them from their evil men. God would have made a way. But, the women were probably just as evil as the men. And the children had no idea. And because the children are not of the age of accountability they would have went to Heaven when they died. If they kept going the way of their parents they would have ended up in hell. So, that was a good thing for the children.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
It seems the professor is kind hearted and knowledgeablebut NOT wise...for he thinks his thoughts and standards are higher than those of the God who made him. It is foolish to think we can understand everything in the Bible perfectly, and not to acknowledge that there will be times we can misunderstand passages, but that does NOT mean those portions of the Bible are false...especially when God tells us that ALL of the Bible is God-breathed and INERRANT...and the Bible itself provides evidence of that through its many prophecies, its central theme of the coming of Christ though written over a period of about 1500 years, and much more. Instead of seeing that he, as a human, will not be able to understand ALL of God's ways, the professor thinks if he doesn't understand or agree, that the Bible is wrong or even God Himself is wrong...instead of realizing he is not understanding correctly. He's putting his mind and standards above God's, then. He also doesn't understand that without the help of the Holy Spirit, we cannot know the hidden meanings and precious messages God has placed in His Word for us.
Jesus is the human embodiment of the old testament God YAHWEH. Those who don't believe that are not Christians. So if you're a Christian, you can't say that the old testament God is immoral because you are following the same God whom you're criticising.
Cliff is being his usual self, and that is when the adversaries corner him about inconsistencies and contradictions in Bible as they relate to what god has done or commanded, his immediate go-to is Christ, and yet he cannot admit that there are certain differences in Bible that even contradicts Christ's teachings.
@@julienielsen3746 The Old Testament is full of contradictions vis-a-vis Master Yeshua's teachings. The biggest of which is "an eye for an eye" concept!
I wonder at a self-professed Christian professor, and I accept his declaration of belief at face value, who argues passionately for a worldview that undermines faith in Christ. Why was he arguing so vociferously against another brother, in public? Why was he so willing to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of the audience?
One thing, in our own mindset we perceive certain things as immorality wrong because of the time we leave in. Our contemporary view allows us to judge certain aspects of the past. No matter what God allowed in the past or in the present, who are we to judge that? He is God, the Infinite, the Omniscient, the Creator, the Maker. He can destroy and recreate when He wants and He does not owe us( speckles of dust) any explanation. Not because He’s cruel, but because we, tiny speckles of dust with our tiny, ephemeral brain will never understand his actions. Let’s stop contesting Him. But if anyone still having challenge questions on his mind about God decisions, I dare you to ask Him directly. He’ll reveal it to you directly. Thank you!
Gen 15:16 “But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.” God waited over 400 years before He rescued the Hebrews and brought them out of Egypt. Gods waited until their sin hardened their hearts like in the times of Noah where every imagination of their hearts were evil until he judged them with destruction by the Israelites.
as practicing Falundafa, I can tell you guys an idea of gods in the three realm. 1/ Earth and environment around it created by the universe creator so the earth is the place he fix universe at the end of its lifetime and now is this time 2/ to do this the universe creator need helps from many other gods 3/ gods are from different time-space from the universe 4/ gods made human in his image so that at the right time human will listen to his teachings as his disciples; that explains races 5/ one god can only save his people hence he taught not to put faith on other god that explains jews, christian, muslim and so on contradict. 6/ the universe creator is now on earth. I also believe Jesus exist and he tell the truth.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
So… I have to say that the genocides done by people were probably NOT the way God wanted things handled. Any time God needed to destroy a people, he gave clear communication of what would happen, yet those people chose to stay and “go down with the ship” because they were in love with what they do, just like people get addicted to immoral media and act on those emotions stirred up by such media. Judges (the people who killed people) shows us how short tempered and unfair people have become. When the Quran mentions killing your enemies, it was in defense, not for manipulation. Also, when God uses the word “destroyed,” he doesn’t necessarily mean everyone died, but rather that their souls were not the same. You can see this in the fact that people were recorded to have survived even though “everyone was destroyed.” Rahab is a perfect example of this principle.
That professor doesn’t even care about the actual language that the Bible was translated from, he acts like the English Bible was the first Bible, Aramaic/hebrew, are the words that were used and English is missing a lot of the interpretation of Hebrew.
No, he is an intelligent and well-meaning person who simply doesn't see things the way you do. Do not attribute malice to people just because you don't agree with them.
God never killed has never killed and will never kill. The Old Testament needs to be interpreted. The question of the Professor is legit. And it requires careful interpretation of the Bible. I hope to join Cliff to answer people’s question one day
The Bible is quite explicit that God kills, and it is often completely unnecessary too. How can you suggest that every such passage needs to be reinterpreted just to fit with the idea that God would never do such a thing? Is it not just easier to agree that the Bible says what it says?
@ Show me where God kills unnecessarily. As I said in my comment : God only killed to protect His people, and His creation. When there was no other way.
The professor wants the Bible to agree with his opinion. The professor questions the justice of God! Sir surrender first your opinion to the principles of the Bible...
“I am reading your bible and you say it doesn’t say it so idk if you have read your bible”…they read it together and it doesn’t say what he claimed it said and what a used him of not reading and mocked him to the crowd over. Yahhhhh he appears to just want some sort of clout over a real discussion and conversation.
And I never heard cliff speak about going back to the Hebrew text and looking further into it in concluding that there was possibly sexual sin that took place between Noah and his son that seen his nakedness, I would have continued to conclude as I always have that ham walked in seen his father naked and rather than cover his nakedness up he went out to tell his brothers about it I've always kind of hurt a little voice in my head saying something along the lines of haha look at this fooling in their drunk and naked. So I always took it that his curse was because you know instead of covering him up himself he went and was a gossip and his brothers had to do what he should have done and covered his father up. I would have never guessed that it had anything to do with sexual immorality but I probably eventually would have stumbled upon this as in the last year or so I have made it a point to go back to the Hebrew for a lot of things because there's too many differences within the denominations of christianity, and there's too much doctrine of man, and tradition and custom of man it has arisen since Christ ascended back to heaven, and it got pretty rapid around the 4th and 5th Century and has not let up since. Injustice Solomon said there's nothing new Under the sun, history has repeated once again and that the religious leaders can never just stick to the word of God, just as so many did before and just as the Pharisees of Christ stay our religious leaders today have added doctrine of man, and I believe they've taken away from us a great deal in that they teach that the appointed times for the biblical Feasts are only for the Jews, and that is so far from the truth because the Jews today who don't believe in Christ observe the biblical Feast for the shadows of what they became and as Christians we know the what was to come is Christ. And we did not need Easter to be made because we had passover, the week of unleavened bread which Jesus is the unleavened bread and that is an entire week for us to look at our lives and make adjustments and see where we have improved or fallen short, and then first fruits, and then later the Feast of Weeks when the Holy Spirit was given that can only be counted correctly if we count it from the Hebrew day of Passover. Then the topic of Christmas is just a whole other thing for me because I would have never thought I'd see the day where I would walk away from my favorite holiday and by no means do I hold the birth of Christ as insignificant because without his birth nothing else would have been possible, but when I took everything else away all the worldly things, all the Pagan things, all the traditions and Customs that have gathered over millennia and stop giving presents to others on our Lord and savior supposed birthday which we know it's not, there was nothing left but remembering and being grateful for the birth of my Lord and Savior which I am every single day. And then I started learning about the fall feasts that are still Shadows of what's to come with Christ's second coming. They're actually is significant amount of evidence in Hebrew documents and such that suggests that Christ was born possibly around Sukkot but all I need to know is that he was born and that he died for each and everyone of us. I know that Christmas is something that didn't exist during Christ time, nor during the apostles, so it is in fact the tradition and custom of man and I have read too many times that God says take nothing and make it for me. Now I don't judge anybody who celebrates these things I'm only stating that I think the thousands of years since Christ have let us away from what we were meant to actually be due to Satan's infiltration into God's people / Church which has led did the doctrine of man and the traditions and customs of man which may look different but at the end of the day are no different than what the Pharisees with various things such as the washing of hands. That is why we are to read the word for ourselves to show us approved, we're not to be taught my man or religious leaders . I really enjoy Cliff, I also enjoyed Jim Staley and yes I know he was in prison but I do not judge who God uses, and I also like Messianic Jewish men that teach the Bible for what it is and not the doctrines of man. None of them are perfect and they are all fallible, it is only the word of God that is infallible and that is why we must begin with his word. May God bless and keep all those in him, May unbreakable lost come to no and seek christ, May those in power turn from their ways and seek the will of God and use their status and their voices to Proclaim the will of God, in the mighty name of yeshua, Christ Jesus the king of kings in the Lord of lords, are savior, amen. Shalom shalom
So the ham thing is about the priesthood. Basically ham took his garment of the priesthood. Ham didnt recieve the priesthood yet. And he mistook something. Instead of being blessed he was cursed.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
Incredible passionate debate. Loved this. The professor questions many things we all struggle to understand, BUT, I can say from my own personal experience that I didn't fully understand those passages until I thoroughly researched them myself. Unfortunately there are many things lost in translation. Cliff is just amazing on his toes and I'm happy we have people like him to defend Christianity.
As far as being cursed as a slave there is a spiritual aspect. The bible says that we are either a slave to Christ or a slave to sin. When we sin, we become a slave to sin. The spiritual laws that hold this universe together have consequences that God gives us instructions on how to avoid breaking these laws and to keep us safe from spiritual consequences that effect us in the physical. When we sin, we come into agreement with dark forces. This will pass on 'curses' to our children until these agreements are broken. This isn't done as a punishment. It is just part of the laws of the universe that hold everything together. God's word gives us instructions on how to walk as light in the darkness so that it can not overcome us, so we can remain safe, and in his eternal love and light.
The Canaanites were infested with Nephilim aka "sons of the fallen angels" aka DEMONS.
I cant believe apologists don't bring this up.
At one point Abraham & his sons are commanded, by God, to leave the Canaanites alone because "their sin has yet come to fullness".
They became what Noah prophesied in that story where he drinks wine and sits up and prophecies "Cursed be Caanan, lowest of slaves". The Canaanites literally became the Nephilim's/sons of the fallen angels (what we know as DEMONS, after they become disembodied) "slaves" for lack of a better word.
If your entire society were slaves to demonic forces.......YYYEEEAAAAHHHH, its better to wipe you COMPLETLEY, from the face of the earth than to let you spread that any further.
Apologists come at this from the view that "God commanded the Israelites to wipe out a whole race of people" letting those challenging them have that "home turf", when it shouldn't even be allowed to go that far. If your entire society are "skin suits for the demonic realm", you aren't just "some society that God said to kill", you(the Israelites) are under a Holy decree to exterminate an infestation(the Canaanites) so the world that existed "preflood" doesn't repeat itself.
They were no longer a "people", their "human DNA" had literally been compromised. All of the Rephaim/Anakim/Zumzumim/Nephalim were Canaanite, THAT is what was being commanded to be destroyed.....not, "some people".
God didn’t curse him, Noah did. The professor just wants to cause doubt on which he will have to talk to God about. This is a work of his flesh.
God bless Cliff. This man reflects Gods grace and wisdom. To God be the Glory ONLY and forever 🙏
That professor is smart and eloquent with his words, problem is he can't reconcile the fact that God in the Bible will not conform to the box of what he wants God to be. God is just. And knows what's best for us, this professor is so knowledgeable but his mind just won't open up to what is True amd hates the Bible cause it doesn't conform to his belief. I hope he changes his mind, in Jesus' name.
The Prof refused to answer the question, what motivates him
He invoked the name of God to make his point 😂 praying hard for this clown. He is on a precipice and doesn't even know it. He needs a miracle.😃
Thank you, absolutely the truth!!!
pride??
What I always see in common with atheists is that they believe that they are more righteous than God so there alternative to God is themselves or us humans are more just and more righteous.. yeah I'll take God over any human on this planet
Anything we think is a contradiction in scripture, is calling us to study it and talk to God about it for revelation.
Or just maybe it's categorically and unequivocally a contradiction and doesn't require much further thought.
@@andrewoconnellperth There are no contradictions in the bible. Just people that claim there are. And those folks haven't read it 99.9999% of the time. They are just people who want to do what they want, and live in sin, so when they hear someone point out contradictions they jump on them and repeat them to others.
I used to think the bible was full of contradictions. Then I searched for information and learned I was ignorant, literally every time. As soon as I read the explanation I immediately and intuitively knew it was correct and that the person who originally passed the contradiction onto me had no idea what they were talking about. Even Jordan Peterson, a brilliant guy, thought there were contradictions until he got absolutely schooled and I could see that was pretty tough for his ego to reconcile with. Just like Billy Carson sounded like he was onto something until his entire career got ended by Wes Huff, an actual biblical scholar. And even people who aren't religious acknowledged how quickly Huff dismantled Carson.
@@nathanshackelford7812 Imagine a Venn diagram - two interlocking circles. One of them is "faith", the other is “reason”. In the middle there is some overlap - where we can reason about our faith - otherwise known as theology. The problem is, Cliff moves freely and conveniently among these three zones - “faith”, “reason”, and the middle zone “theology” to suit his purposes for these so-called “debates”. His opponents often lose or look silly because no sooner have they accepted the “rules of engagement” than Cliff has created a new “game”. Cliff situates himself as BOTH theologian AND evangelist during these so-called debates, which is not only “intellectually dishonest” - his all-time favourite phrase - but immature - switching the goal-posts when it suits him - expounding his faith stridently when the debate gets too difficult for him, switching back to rational arguments when someone expresses their belief/s. To cut a long story short, I will not bother to point out what I believe are contradictions in the bible because after having read your dogmatic and evangelical response - and I use those words not to insult you but simply to describe your response - I’m not confident that something I present THEOLOGICALLY will be met by a strong THEOLOGICAL counterargument on your part but by a zealous, ultimately ad hominen argument whose purpose it is to suggest that there is ultimately something wrong with ME - the modus operandi of the dogmatic, including Cliff, commonly known as bullying and gaslighting. So, I fear that despite my age, level of education, including religious education, and level of life experience, I will be told by you in some way, shape, or form - no matter how striking the contradiction I set before you - that I haven’t yet quite “seen the light”.
@@nathanshackelford7812then Adam and Eve were the first humans on earth and they had Cain and able, right? Cain and Able had wives, right? Where did they get wives from? Did they marry their sisters?
@@scottmorgan133 Yes, they did. This is one of the ways genetic mutations were introduced.
The professor is just making personal attacks on Cliffe halfway through. He has no argument and that destroys his credibility
Love how they hug ❤
@sarahporter1267 absolutely, despite the thoughts transgressed toward one another they extended a little love because we must love our neighbors but always rebuke sin
Seeing this for first time, I think. Not the conversation, the format.🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
that passage in deoteronomy demonstrates the patience of the almighty living God, if you read and understood the story of those people whom God destroyed , the fact that He waited 400 years for them to repent, God has fore knowledge and still he waited, God is good read the bible 🎉❤
Valid point about God waiting patiently for 400 yrs! Many parents will punish their children after 1 bad act & give harsh consequences. Would a human parent wait 400 times let alone 400 yrs if we lived that long? I don't believe our "nature" would last! God did wait. Free will caused the demise of the families & their children just like the present times. I pray we all take God more SERIOUSLY than ever!
the first time I read the whole bible I was anticipating seeing a cruel and ridiculous God in the old testament. I was shocked to find that it is overwhelmingly about a patient and forgiving God that just doesn’t stop forgiving and sending guidance and warnings.
Yeshua taught the Torah the apostles taught Torah even to the gentiles. Im not a Christian can't call myself that due to the Christian faiths teachings and pagan holidays they celebrate. I'm an evrim (Hebrew means Israelite that crossed the Jordan , or means to cross over.) remember the apostles didnt call them selves christians. That is something the church started calling themselves. I believe in the Hebrew Yeshua not the Greek jesus
This street preacher does a great job debating his points 👍
The Canaanites were infested with Nephilim aka "sons of the fallen angels" aka DEMONS.
I cant believe apologists don't bring this up.
At one point Abraham & his sons are commanded, by God, to leave the Canaanites alone because "their sin has yet come to fullness".
They became what Noah prophesied in that story where he drinks wine and sits up and prophecies "Cursed be Caanan, lowest of slaves". The Canaanites literally became the Nephilim's/sons of the fallen angels (what we know as DEMONS, after they become disembodied) "slaves" for lack of a better word.
If your entire society were slaves to demonic forces.......YYYEEEAAAAHHHH, its better to wipe you COMPLETLEY, from the face of the earth than to let you spread that any further.
Apologists come at this from the view that "God commanded the Israelites to wipe out a whole race of people" letting those challenging them have that "home turf", when it shouldn't even be allowed to go that far. If your entire society are "skin suits for the demonic realm", you aren't just "some society that God said to kill", you(the Israelites) are under a Holy decree to exterminate an infestation(the Canaanites) so the world that existed "preflood" doesn't repeat itself.
They were no longer a "people", their "human DNA" had literally been compromised. All of the Rephaim/Anakim/Zumzumim/Nephalim were Canaanite, THAT is what was being commanded to be destroyed.....not, "some people".
The professor only knows one side of God which is love,he doesn’t know God judges, chastises and has an unmatched fury
He blasphemed God and his profession of believing in Christ made him a hypocrite.You cannot accuse God of commiting crimes against humanity and at the same time profess to love Jesus .
@@BackWordsJanethis is common, they like the idea of Jesus but they don’t want to know the true and real Jesus Christ our savior
They both make good and solid points. It is good to see Cliff facing a worthy opponent, not just dominating young students.
1 Corinthians 2:11 conveys the message that only the Spirit of God can comprehend the thoughts of God and that only a person's own spirit can know their thoughts. The verse also suggests that to know God, one must be dependent on, in step with, and desperate for the Spirit of God.
The verse reads, "For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God".
The Professor has to understand that you can not comprehend the spiritual things with human understanding.
Thank you Jesus for this two fathers. Did you see that! They later greeted and if I observed well, professor later agree to the truth (which i believe he was just looking for).
I wish I knew the name of this gentleman so I could hear his story. Sounds like a great story
As a follower or Christ and a person who loves wisdom and articulation. I love the way Cliffe delivers the message of God and stands on business on his belief.
Once I go back home to NY, I must drop by his church and meet him.
i love how they both hug at the end.
even though there was alot of shouting and harsh words i have no doubt both of them truly hold one anouther to a high standard,
jesus proves that true genuine love can trickle down hundreds of generations and inspire truly meaningful conversations.
Gotta love how offended ppl are at ppl wiping out their enemies; but never point out the enemies woukd wipe them out & not be sorry in the least.
Just because scripture has been interpreted wrongly does not mean that scripture is questionable. People are questionable. So if you feel challenged, study and pray.
Also, Luther later understood that there was indeed no contradiction between Paul and James. Furthermore, we should keep from treating theologians as divine persons. They are human, prone to err just like any of us.
There is a difference between a description and a prescription. Describing what happened in the culture, is different than saying what SHOULD happen in the future.
Also, intention matters. Ham had the intention to expose and embarrass his father and engage in sexual immorality with him while he was drunk.
Love and Justice. God is just, God is holy, God defines what sin is, and God defines what evil is. First, if God does not exist, there is no such thing as good or evil. Second, God would not be good if he did not punish evil, especially those with evil intentions in their heart. Love always protects, how can he protect those who love him if those who hate him are actively harming those who love him? He forgives all who will turn to him and submit to his will and his good and moral laws. But given the fact that he is the only just able to enact perfect justice, then he knows exactly who deserves what, and who will never change. Also, he is the author of life, he if can give life back, he has full authority to take it away. Furthermore, death is inevitable in the physical form, but God determines who he brings into his presence for eternity. A loving God would never force someone into an eternity of submission to him if it was against their will. Thus, God enacted his passive wrath, but letting people choose their own fate, because love demands choice.
There are many interpretations of scripture that are actively under debate. People spend their entire lives attempting to accurately understand scripture, both what it meant when it was written, and what it means for us today.
People all throughout history have used religion to justify evil, it doesn't mean the text endorses it, it means anyone can take anything out of context and read modern day interpretations and culture into the ancient writings. You can't read today into the past, because language and culture changes. Meanings change, slang changes, fads change. You have to understand how the author understood it, what theybwere trying to communicate, and who the intended reader was going to be, and how they would have read or understood or interpretted it. Becauze likely, it would have been very different that how most might interpretations or understand it today, given how much time has gone by and how much has changed especially in terms of language, but culture and economy and governments, and knowledge of the rest of world geography.
They spoke to people who lived in that culture; who understood the analogies they used, who spoke the language they originally used, who understood the tone and humor and idioms of the day we could never know about. (For example, A butt-dial and a booty-call...to someone 2000 years later translating it, it would appear to be the same thing...but those are clearly referring to two completely separate events, but only because we understand the language and the culture references.
You cannot claim to know more than an all knowing all powerful omnipresent God who exists outside of time space and matter, given the fact that he created all of it, he must exist outside it, beyond it, through it, and must be unaffected by it. He designed a universe with laws and order in a way that it can be understood at all. The only way you can employ logic as useful is if there is something which exists that can be understood. Knowledge, information. Information has never come from non-life. No one believes a book came together by accident, or that a computer which didn't exist yet designed itself. No one believes a city with buildings and roads and scy scrapers happened over billions of years by random chance and a series or rearranging molecules. No, you see something was built, you innately know there was a builder. You see something painted, you know there was a painter. You see a book, you know it had an author. And yet, we see DNA which is a vastly complicated language of life itself, and an infinitely complex cell the closer we look, the more proof it is against evolution, and yet, people believe it cane about on accident and by random chance. Then how can you trust your own logic if it's merely a random collection of chemicals firing off neurons at random by accident?
There is a belief which is illogical, and that is not the Christian world view. There must be an unmoved mover. Something which set everything in motion and ensured it was governed in a way which maintained order. That's what we observe today. Laws which government matter, or the material, AND laws which government morality, or the immaterial, as well as laws which govern energy, and light, and everything else we observe.
The only reason the scientific method is useful is because creation is predictable. Otherwise, there would be no sustainable order which we could expect. Over time, everything tends toward chaos, without intervention or work; without an opposing force to stop weathering and entropy. Everything tends toeard disorder, but we see order that exists thus, it had more order before. Meaning we came from a more orderly existence, and came to be as a conseqeuence of a life force using information to create.
Your whole argument is invalid, on the basis that you have no basis for logic or evil if you say God does not exist. Thus, you must concede that he exists, though you claim you disagree. You cannot invoke reason if we are a random collection of chemicals which came together over billions of years as a consequence of trial and error trillions of times evolving from chaos into order over time without any intervention. That's irrational. Without a God, you can't call anything evil because there is no standard for what is or is not evil. You can claim God is Evil for enacting justice or injustice, but he IS the very standard of justice. Thus, you cant say anything he did was unjust, if that IS the thing itself. If the mass of the physical kilogram object changed, you can't say it's wrong, because it is literally the defintion of the kilogram is the weight of that very object. You can say it changed, but it's not wrong. You can say that's dumb or that you disagree, but you are not the standard. And you don't even have to understand the standard ir the moral law giver. All you have to do is trust that he gives good rules for life to follow, and trust he knows better because his knowledge and wisdom is infinite and timeless. Perhaps he knew the whole people group of the Canaanites were going to corrupt culture and people for generations, and it was merciful of God to prevent that from continuing long into the lives of their children.
If you want to learn, there are things you can learn. If you insist you know everything, then you will learn nothing. I'm you wish to listen, you will be listened to. If you refuse to listen, you will not be heard. Yelling does not prove you are right and neither does cutting them off in the middle of their sentences while they are in the middle of providing an answer/response to your own question. Not something I would recommend that you teach your students. They learned something from you today, that you have a very difficult time being fair and just with someone else in a debate who merely draws a different conclusion from the same evidence. Those with understanding remain even tempered, and clearly you did not remain even tempered, proving your lack of understanding and your desperate attacks which were clear misinterpretations of the texts taken out of context and in a vacuum. He gave legitimate answers, and they weren't what you wanted to hear, that doesn't warrant you treating him the way you did with that level of tone and disrespect. He actually gave you a platform, and stood and listened carefully to your questions and provided answers he thoughtfully generated, and he answered them honestly and with genuine intention. At the same time, you were doing nothing but trying to push your own agenda and beliefs and bias by cherry-picking verses, which take time to research and understand.
They were both cooking. Both very smart and respectable individuals. Love content like this, and may God in his grace lead us all to what is right and correct us in our wrong ways.
Love how they both hug each other with brotherly and Christlike embrace at the end ❤
I'm glad to see such a great debate. I believe this mans doubts are well founded, even if i dont agree with them. Like cliff said, when he had his doubts, he went to the original hebrew text to interpret his doubts, and with that he began to gain a deeper understanding.
I see this as a net positive, and hopefully it can continue to move us all who view this video closer to god.
If you don’t realize your fallen state as a human being and desperately search for salvation, you will never see the transformational POWER In Bible with help of the Holy Spirit leading to our Lord Jesus Christ
Go Professor! ❤. You make sense
So does cliff
Notice how the young man thought it was funny when he was a Satanist but was very serious and doubtful when this man found Jesus.
I hope that young man also finds Jesus.
I’m convinced it’s harder to love the word without encountering Gods presence first… it’s harder to comprehend Hell without understanding order that God designed.
God doesn’t just go around destroying nations cause he wants to they sinned and he gave them ample time just like he’s giving us he gave them 400yrs that’s more than enough
Yeah we should question the Bible but we should question it as if it is innocent until proven guilty and so far it has not been proven guilty
How can you be a Christian, accept Christ but reject God? While the bible tells us that He came to reconcile God and man
If the professor can’t even interpret the Bhagavad Gita correctly, why would he be able to interpret the Bible? God bless ❤
Bhagavad Gita 4:7 god say I am coming to kill siner and Gita 2:50 say we born donkey 🫏 next time
In traffic listening to this and as Cliff brings up Philemon I look up and see a truck with a Philemon verse drawn on the back window
I don’t think this professor realized that he was promoting the idea that we should put God to the test… Matthew 4:7
Follow God, trust God, his creation has proven his trustworthiness: Matthew 4:10, Romans 1:18-20
Great debate very good for our faith and the greatest loser is the devil 👿
It doesnt take much to recieve the title of professor these days
Why just because he's an atheist? How about you become a professor yourself and I will totally be convinced that it is easy to become a professor these days.
This professor thinks that the events he was referring to is a call to action that applies today and not only a command that only applied to those people at that time recorded in the Bible.
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God is love and justice.
Every christian ever when questioned about anything in the bible: "its true trust me bro"
Cringe idiocy
Any atheist when questioned about anything before written history😂
Completely incorrect
I acknowledge that Cliffe didn't really answer the questions but eventually they subconsciously agreed to the same thing which is great
"Men have been taught either that knowledge is impossible ( skepticism ) or that it is available without effort ( mysticism )."
-Ayn Rand-
Ham had relations with his *mother* (and likely, Canaan was the product which would explain the curse). Prior to reading Genesis 9:22 where Ham “uncovered the nakedness of his father” in Noah’s tent, please read Leviticus 18:7-8 (NASB is clearest):
7 “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother. You shall not uncover her nakedness.”
8 “You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s wife; it is your father’s nakedness.”
Deep stuff
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
The inquisition was absolutely justifiable. A fifth column of the same descents of Pharisees allowed the import of barbarians onto Christian lands, and the most holy of Christian’s lands, in Europe. The Inquisition was necessary and justified.
Noah cursed Canaan, not God. God honored it, and I believe it was because Ham dishonored Noah. He has His reasons though. The professor is attempting to equate a curse from Noah to a commandment from God which shouldn't be. Remember that The God so many people call Good (because He is) is also The Same that slayed all of humanity once before. And that's what we know about. However this is also The Same God who created Man in the 1st place. This was a misdirected argument from the foundation.
The human arrogance knows no bounds. More than that, people will ask why it is God does not intervene when we want Him to. Yet when He does, people proclaim His actions as un-Godly.
It isn't arrogant to wish that when God ostensibly intervenes in the world, he helps out starving children instead of commanding horrific genocides.
Great embrace at the end of the
God didn’t curse him, Noah did smh. And it says this. What’s the issue Professor?
I went and read it again myself. You're right. And it became a generational curse.
the new testament is a new covenant. The old testament is the history of and the context of the world the new testament entered.
The professor read Bibles partially. Next time read carefully Mr. Processor 😅 you cannot juge people behavior at that time at certain people with your today:s culture.
Person 1: Well, I don't know what you are...
Person 2: Thank you.
It was noah that cursed his son not God
*This is my interpretation*
Genesis 9:21-27: He drank the wine and became drunk and layed uncovered in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, walked and accidentally sawhis father naked he ran out and told his two brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took a blanket, laid it on both their shoulders, walked in the tent and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father with out looking at there father. (Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father’s nakedness.) When Noah awoke from his being drunk and heard that his youngest son barged in his tent and saw him naked, he said, “caanan will be punished ; a he will listen to his brothers” He also said, “Blessed be the Lord . his brothers will be his keeper (bc hes not dealing with his disrespectful barging in self. May God help Japheth become responsible, and let him dwell in the tents of Shem, and let Canaan listen to him.”
God has the right to judge, and the right to determine how long someone lives.
Really? So if God will say that your relative will die today is okay for you? Based on what you said that God can determine how long someone lives, does that means he also has the power to kill someone.
@dnutwrry3018 I would grieve . God wants us to love people enough to be saddened by it. Originally there wasn't supposed to be death . I don't have the callous attitude about death you were reading into it , but I would and already have respected God's right to determine that. Its only the body that dies, and if anyone accepts God's free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ , they are in a perfect eternity with God .
@@puglover8171 So does everyone go to heaven if they accept God as the one and only true God?
Jesus said He is the only way to the Father . Jesus died to take the penalty for our sin . If anyone believes on the LORD Jesus Christ to be their Savior , trusting He is their Savior and rose again . All small children who die , go to heaven , even though they don't understand it's because of Jesus .
@@puglover8171 Even if the children are Muslim? Or whatever religion they will go to heaven? What if the children isn't baptized yet? So that means if a child that's from another religion will automatically go to heaven if they die? Will they not go to the heaven of their religion? So it is nonsense then, considering that they will not go to the concept of their religion instead go to the heaven of Christianity 🤣🤣
Where is the full video pls?
Click the play button where the title is given.
Who is this?! I’d love to see the whole interview. Wish they would tag in the description… thanks any help!
19:17 Jesus said “if anyone loves me, he will obey my words, and the father will love him.” He said “I do not come on my own authority… but to share the message given to me by my father.” From every message that Jesus preached he preached the word of God from the Old Testament and proclaimed it to be the word of God. Jesus is the truth, the word made flesh. When he speaks he does not speak of himself but from his father who sent him. He speaks the word of God.
To say you follow Christ but do not accept the Old Testament in which Christ spoke of and taught from as the word of God is hypocrisy. Lean not on your own understanding. To say that you trust in your own moral compass and intuition above the judgment of God. Therefore taken a position as judge over God of the Old Testament and condemning him for his actions. You put yourself in authority over Christ and all that he taught. You cannot reject God the father while proclaiming Christ who sits at fathers right hand and does all his father commands and speaks the message that was given to Christ by his father.
Genesis 1 God spoke “let there be light.” Gods word was sent out and creation was done by his word. Christ is the word of God made flesh to dwell among us. John says “nothing was made that was made apart from Christ.” Because Christ is the word of God and all that God spoke was done. Christ came as a messenger, as The messenger, the. Physical embodiment of the word of God. High priest, The Angel of the Lord (Angel means messenger from God), You cannot say you love him if you do not love the father and obey His words because His words and Christ words are one. “No one can come to the father except through me.” “Do you not know me Philip? how can you say show me the father, if you have seen me you have seen the father.”
I want to see the whole come to Jesus interview
Where can I find full interview? Or what what’s his name. I wanted to know more.
He did great in all his responses
5:40 in Hebrew “seeing a man’s nakedness” means having sex with their wife, so it means He had sex with his mom (probably because that would make him the head of the family) and the child’s name Canaan
Absolute BS. Thats not what the scripture says. It says Noah was naked in his tent BECAUSE he was drunk. And his 2 sons put clothing on him because he was literally naked.
Also, you think that the people who translated the Hebrew to English didn't know that, but you do??
@@mareksumguy1887 So you just ignore the argument of the idiom "nakedness of his father", that explains why such a heavy curse is laid to the child of the offender, and go by "Well, that's just how Noah is. He is a choleric."? If it makes you happy...
Theologians who have known the original language have confirmed for hundreds of years that it is possible to read the story this way.
@@mareksumguy1887 Have you read the Bibile in the original text of Hebrew? If not, then the arrogance in your intelligence is unfounded....this person clearly spoke from a point of having studied. I haven't read the Hebrew text, but I've seen several cases in which every word was not translated in its fullness and contextual meaning. According to Cliffe, this is the case reagrding the point raised here.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
Can someone please share the link of this interview.
What’s the name of this podcast?
I’m curious to see what would’ve went down if Sam Shamoun debated this man
Am a christian and i think this was a good debate. The Judgment of God in the old testament is Tuff! But the behavior from humans in the old testament......Damn.
The Bible is the inspired word of God, it is the Holy Spirit that said exactly what was supposed to say. The God of the Old testament is the same God in the new he only made a new convenant. He advertise before punishing, he is patient, he is just, he punishes evil, he also forgives when we repen. He is the same yesterday 1000 years ago and 1000 years from now. The professor thinks that observing what Christ though is being a christian but Jesus gave a interesting description in John 3 by saying we need to be born again.. He is not born from the spirit of God. He is not a new creation, maybe he is becoming a new creature right now i dont know his heart. but by what im seeing he is not there yet. being christian mean Christ lives in you. I pray that the Lord bring him light and save him so he can look at those texts and this particular moment and see :) . i really enjoyed that exchange.. God bless Cliff and his ministry
So he basically thinks that the same way God asked people in the old testament to kill others he is doing that in modern times. And i disagree with that on the bases that the old testament was under an old covanate,so the circumstances and situations thuse people faced are different than they are today. Secondly We are under a new covenant that is different than the old one and the new one we are under is one were all we have to do is to put our trust and Faith in Jesus Christ and to spread the word to others,love our enemies and live according to those teachings. And i would also argue that looking at the old testament helps use understand that God hates evil and is just in doing at with it. And that the OT is something for use to look back on to see the mistakes and the sinful actions that those in the old testament had commited and for use to look at those and say "I won't make tht same mistake again, because these are the results" and I'm not saying that the results will be the same as it was during that time but i am saying that the OT is showing us the seriousness of sin and its effects on those around us. And Lastly o would also say that those who have used The Bible to condone slavery and other horrible acts in history are evil and i am not going to defend thst because thats ehat happened,but i can however say that instead of blaming the word of God and/or God himself for the actions and Choices of man who knew what they were doing were wrong and evil instead look through the scriptures find out if Jesus is reliable if the,of There is something you don't understand ask for help Study it and Find the answers, That's what God wants for you to know him to dig into his word and As humans we won't always understand Gods ways,but Looking at his track record i can say that whatever he does will be for his Glory and at the same time benefit u and fill u with abundant blessings and wisdom. Hope this helps God bless and stay strong (I'm 17 and still learning btw so idk everything😅) ✝️
Where can I find the full video?
The fact about arjuna is that
By his logic even krishna was a bad God for correcting arjuna to stop thinking that way. And he dare try to play a Game of greatness and Cleopatra (like she played for power over egypt changing flags when necessary)
Someone know the name of the Boy that ask?
Natural reason? Reason is justification of something or an event. Where does that justification come from? THAT is the true question. So WHO's judgement is most true? The creation (man) or the Creator (God)?
Children had time to fleet the scene... now teach me some morals!
Who is this? I want to watch the whole thing
Full video?
Where would the women and children flee to? They had no where to go? It is not like they had a support system
They could have prayed to God, asking Him to save them from their evil men. God would have made a way. But, the women were probably just as evil as the men. And the children had no idea. And because the children are not of the age of accountability they would have went to Heaven when they died. If they kept going the way of their parents they would have ended up in hell. So, that was a good thing for the children.
Excellent
In Leviticus, it says One who sleeps with his fathers wife has seen his father's nakedness.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
Like watching Mohamed Ali vs Joe Frazier
Cliff has great wisdom but so does this professor. Both extremely wise men.
It seems the professor is kind hearted and knowledgeablebut NOT wise...for he thinks his thoughts and standards are higher than those of the God who made him.
It is foolish to think we can understand everything in the Bible perfectly, and not to acknowledge that there will be times we can misunderstand passages, but that does NOT mean those portions of the Bible are false...especially when God tells us that ALL of the Bible is God-breathed and INERRANT...and the Bible itself provides evidence of that through its many prophecies, its central theme of the coming of Christ though written over a period of about 1500 years, and much more.
Instead of seeing that he, as a human, will not be able to understand ALL of God's ways, the professor thinks if he doesn't understand or agree, that the Bible is wrong or even God Himself is wrong...instead of realizing he is not understanding correctly. He's putting his mind and standards above God's, then. He also doesn't understand that without the help of the Holy Spirit, we cannot know the hidden meanings and precious messages God has placed in His Word for us.
Cliffe just got destroyed respectfully
Jesus is the human embodiment of the old testament God YAHWEH. Those who don't believe that are not Christians. So if you're a Christian, you can't say that the old testament God is immoral because you are following the same God whom you're criticising.
Cliff is being his usual self, and that is when the adversaries corner him about inconsistencies and contradictions in Bible as they relate to what god has done or commanded, his immediate go-to is Christ, and yet he cannot admit that there are certain differences in Bible that even contradicts Christ's teachings.
There is not. Show me. Where it contradicts Christ's teaching.
@@julienielsen3746 The Old Testament is full of contradictions vis-a-vis Master Yeshua's teachings. The biggest of which is "an eye for an eye" concept!
@@tianzi49elaborate
"SUFFER NOT A WITCH TO LIVE" .... that is in the bible.
Old Testament.
@julienielsen3746 The Old and New Testaments are the books of bible believing Christian and every word is INFALLIBLE.
What’s this guys name?
Who's this guy?? I want to watch the full video
Click the play button where title is written.
@@mariyamashraf258 I don't find it... I don't mean Cliffe, the other guy who was not preaching
@@saudadaeon TH-cam type cliffe fierce debates with professor about God and channel name is Bible Alive..
@@mariyamashraf258 ok thanks😂
I wonder at a self-professed Christian professor, and I accept his declaration of belief at face value, who argues passionately for a worldview that undermines faith in Christ. Why was he arguing so vociferously against another brother, in public? Why was he so willing to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of the audience?
One thing, in our own mindset we perceive certain things as immorality wrong because of the time we leave in. Our contemporary view allows us to judge certain aspects of the past. No matter what God allowed in the past or in the present, who are we to judge that? He is God, the Infinite, the Omniscient, the Creator, the Maker. He can destroy and recreate when He wants and He does not owe us( speckles of dust) any explanation. Not because He’s cruel, but because we, tiny speckles of dust with our tiny, ephemeral brain will never understand his actions. Let’s stop contesting Him. But if anyone still having challenge questions on his mind about God decisions, I dare you to ask Him directly. He’ll reveal it to you directly. Thank you!
God only killed to protect His people, and His creation. When there was no other way.
Gen 15:16 “But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.” God waited over 400 years before He rescued the Hebrews and brought them out of Egypt. Gods waited until their sin hardened their hearts like in the times of Noah where every imagination of their hearts were evil until he judged them with destruction by the Israelites.
as practicing Falundafa, I can tell you guys an idea of gods in the three realm. 1/ Earth and environment around it created by the universe creator so the earth is the place he fix universe at the end of its lifetime and now is this time 2/ to do this the universe creator need helps from many other gods 3/ gods are from different time-space from the universe 4/ gods made human in his image so that at the right time human will listen to his teachings as his disciples; that explains races 5/ one god can only save his people hence he taught not to put faith on other god that explains jews, christian, muslim and so on contradict. 6/ the universe creator is now on earth. I also believe Jesus exist and he tell the truth.
Uncovering someone's nakedness is a euphemism for sex (Lev 18) - Cliffe is totally right about the Hebrew
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
We cant understand the concept of how evil the cannanites were unless we say they were similar to the Nazis or Pol Pot or Stalin and Lenins Russia.
So… I have to say that the genocides done by people were probably NOT the way God wanted things handled. Any time God needed to destroy a people, he gave clear communication of what would happen, yet those people chose to stay and “go down with the ship” because they were in love with what they do, just like people get addicted to immoral media and act on those emotions stirred up by such media. Judges (the people who killed people) shows us how short tempered and unfair people have become. When the Quran mentions killing your enemies, it was in defense, not for manipulation. Also, when God uses the word “destroyed,” he doesn’t necessarily mean everyone died, but rather that their souls were not the same. You can see this in the fact that people were recorded to have survived even though “everyone was destroyed.” Rahab is a perfect example of this principle.
What this video from
Was that his ears?
I know a mumbler when I hear one who are we to tell God what to do with His creation because we don’t have a heaven or hell to put ourselves in
Who is this man?
That professor doesn’t even care about the actual language that the Bible was translated from, he acts like the English Bible was the first Bible, Aramaic/hebrew, are the words that were used and English is missing a lot of the interpretation of Hebrew.
This professor is just lost man he clearly just is focusing on twisting scripture to fit his own beliefs
No, he is an intelligent and well-meaning person who simply doesn't see things the way you do. Do not attribute malice to people just because you don't agree with them.
God never killed has never killed and will never kill.
The Old Testament needs to be interpreted.
The question of the Professor is legit. And it requires careful interpretation of the Bible.
I hope to join Cliff to answer people’s question one day
God only killed to protect His people, and His creation. When there was no other way.
The Bible is quite explicit that God kills, and it is often completely unnecessary too. How can you suggest that every such passage needs to be reinterpreted just to fit with the idea that God would never do such a thing? Is it not just easier to agree that the Bible says what it says?
@ Show me where God kills unnecessarily. As I said in my comment : God only killed to protect His people, and His creation. When there was no other way.
I mean, there is the whole flood thing that he did. If that alone isn't killing done by God then I don't know what is.
The professor wants the Bible to agree with his opinion. The professor questions the justice of God! Sir surrender first your opinion to the principles of the Bible...
There are no people more contemptible and arrogant than academic professionals.
“I am reading your bible and you say it doesn’t say it so idk if you have read your bible”…they read it together and it doesn’t say what he claimed it said and what a used him of not reading and mocked him to the crowd over. Yahhhhh he appears to just want some sort of clout over a real discussion and conversation.
And I never heard cliff speak about going back to the Hebrew text and looking further into it in concluding that there was possibly sexual sin that took place between Noah and his son that seen his nakedness, I would have continued to conclude as I always have that ham walked in seen his father naked and rather than cover his nakedness up he went out to tell his brothers about it I've always kind of hurt a little voice in my head saying something along the lines of haha look at this fooling in their drunk and naked. So I always took it that his curse was because you know instead of covering him up himself he went and was a gossip and his brothers had to do what he should have done and covered his father up. I would have never guessed that it had anything to do with sexual immorality but I probably eventually would have stumbled upon this as in the last year or so I have made it a point to go back to the Hebrew for a lot of things because there's too many differences within the denominations of christianity, and there's too much doctrine of man, and tradition and custom of man it has arisen since Christ ascended back to heaven, and it got pretty rapid around the 4th and 5th Century and has not let up since. Injustice Solomon said there's nothing new Under the sun, history has repeated once again and that the religious leaders can never just stick to the word of God, just as so many did before and just as the Pharisees of Christ stay our religious leaders today have added doctrine of man, and I believe they've taken away from us a great deal in that they teach that the appointed times for the biblical Feasts are only for the Jews, and that is so far from the truth because the Jews today who don't believe in Christ observe the biblical Feast for the shadows of what they became and as Christians we know the what was to come is Christ. And we did not need Easter to be made because we had passover, the week of unleavened bread which Jesus is the unleavened bread and that is an entire week for us to look at our lives and make adjustments and see where we have improved or fallen short, and then first fruits, and then later the Feast of Weeks when the Holy Spirit was given that can only be counted correctly if we count it from the Hebrew day of Passover. Then the topic of Christmas is just a whole other thing for me because I would have never thought I'd see the day where I would walk away from my favorite holiday and by no means do I hold the birth of Christ as insignificant because without his birth nothing else would have been possible, but when I took everything else away all the worldly things, all the Pagan things, all the traditions and Customs that have gathered over millennia and stop giving presents to others on our Lord and savior supposed birthday which we know it's not, there was nothing left but remembering and being grateful for the birth of my Lord and Savior which I am every single day. And then I started learning about the fall feasts that are still Shadows of what's to come with Christ's second coming. They're actually is significant amount of evidence in Hebrew documents and such that suggests that Christ was born possibly around Sukkot but all I need to know is that he was born and that he died for each and everyone of us. I know that Christmas is something that didn't exist during Christ time, nor during the apostles, so it is in fact the tradition and custom of man and I have read too many times that God says take nothing and make it for me. Now I don't judge anybody who celebrates these things I'm only stating that I think the thousands of years since Christ have let us away from what we were meant to actually be due to Satan's infiltration into God's people / Church which has led did the doctrine of man and the traditions and customs of man which may look different but at the end of the day are no different than what the Pharisees with various things such as the washing of hands. That is why we are to read the word for ourselves to show us approved, we're not to be taught my man or religious leaders . I really enjoy Cliff, I also enjoyed Jim Staley and yes I know he was in prison but I do not judge who God uses, and I also like Messianic Jewish men that teach the Bible for what it is and not the doctrines of man. None of them are perfect and they are all fallible, it is only the word of God that is infallible and that is why we must begin with his word. May God bless and keep all those in him, May unbreakable lost come to no and seek christ, May those in power turn from their ways and seek the will of God and use their status and their voices to Proclaim the will of God, in the mighty name of yeshua, Christ Jesus the king of kings in the Lord of lords, are savior, amen. Shalom shalom
So the ham thing is about the priesthood. Basically ham took his garment of the priesthood. Ham didnt recieve the priesthood yet. And he mistook something. Instead of being blessed he was cursed.
"Nakedness" in Hebrew is "עֶרְוָה" (ervah), which can denote vulnerability or shame. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, seeing one's father's nakedness was considered a grave dishonor, reflecting a lack of respect for parental authority and family dignity. This act of seeing and not covering reflects a deeper moral and ethical failure.
Are u open 2 new improvement idea
John 14:6
Evil in presence. This man has NO CLUE what love is. Love is truth. Sometimes truth hurts. Sometimes ALL people are evil.