I generally agree. I kept the tire size the same. The difference in the wheel change was more in the area of performance, though, as it didn't change the feel much. 👍🏾
Great content . you’ve now got everyone talking about the individual experience with different types of bikes , which is excellent but ultimately it doesn’t matter what you’ve got. Just ride your bike and enjoy the feeling of freedom.
0:01 Titanium is the correct answer. Can’t wait to watch the rest of the video and see if you got it right? 😉 I’m joking of course! 🙃 No I’m not. 😄 Or am I? 😏 Update 13:16 If you have enough experience on titanium bikes and you can be honest with yourself about it’s many advantages, you will be very reluctant to choose carbon frames ever again. As for steel, it’s almost as good as titanium, it’s often cheaper and if you are just going on looks, I will have to admit (even though I don’t like to, but I’m being honest with myself) that steel will always be the best looking. I understand that space age looking carbon bikes can look amazing, but they age like women with plastic surgery… steel and Ti are ageless. 😎
Thumbs up to you, sir! Another excellent video from a rider's perspective with no bias from a sponsor or advertiser influence. I've never ridden a carbon bike, so I have no opinion there, but I do have experience in the other 3 materials, and I just love the feel of a good designed Ti bike. There's something about it that I haven't quite figured out how to put it into words. I am not a spoiled "one percenter," I've worked very hard to afford my Turner ArTi and love every minute of riding time, as well as the aesthetics of that brushed titanium. Respect!!!
For aesthetics, one can't beat the classic steel frames produced by the now retired custom frame builder Richard Sachs - beautiful brazed frames built over his 40+ years in the business.
I ridden various bicycle tubing frames from True Temper PLATINUM, Reynolds 853, Columbus SLX, Columbus SL, Tange Ultimate PRESTIGE, Ritchey Logic, Titanium, Carbon, Carbon/ Steel bonded frames. The Reynolds 853 and True Temper Platinum had a similar feel to the titanium comfy very responsive. The carbon was incredibly light but felt dead to me. The most comfortable frames to me were the Ritchey Logic, Columbus SLX/SL and the amazing Tange Ultimate PRESTIGE frames. If I were to choose, it would be steel slightly over titanium. My Ritchey and Reynolds 853 tubed bikes are amazing. I wish I kept the steel Tange Ultimate PRESTIGE frame absolute classic ride
Long Live Ti, it's all about the wheelbase and Fork Rake. That's the major key, great call out about the 73-73.5 degree angle. I have a Canyon Aeroad and my BlackPedal Ti, once you elect to go custom geometry with a Ti...you are set for life. Great Video! #BlackPedalCo.
Great commentary. As a former cat 1 roadie, I’ve ridden many many bikes, like you. I’ve had old Merlin Ti bikes. Litespeed Ti/Carbon mix and every brand of carbon bike since 2005 to current Brands. Last carbon frame I had was canyon Aeroad, great bike. “Felt” fast …but cracked in less than 30 days at the chainstay (where all my carbon frames have cracked from every modern carbon frame manufacture). This led me back to Ti. I’m no longer a racer but still want a performance feeling bike with a good, dare I say, comfortable ride? I went with custom Ti, T47 BB, custom geo (yes 73-74° angles 😊). Dropped, thin seat stays, beefy chainstays and obviously thru-axels etc. I call it a modern classic and it’s such a great bike! Great looking great riding and plenty fast. Like you said “run what you brung” and enjoy. Great video.
@ it is! Wish I could send a pic. Really sharp looking and fast. Thank you. Check out Sanitas cycles when you have a chance. They are who built it for me. 😊
I own a 2023 Ritchey road logic steel bike and a 2016 trek domane carbon bike (before they became gravel bikes ). I ride both - they are in different places. I can confirm your views. The Domane is stiff in the bottom bracket and light overall and accelerates faster. The Ritchey, despite its more aggressive geometry takes better care of me on long rides. On a 100km plus ride where comfort matters to performance I think the Ritchey performs better. It’s also my favorite bike.
Luis, once again, what great comparative video. I have to ride a carbon fiber framed bike to feel the difference (I have Aluminum - Cannondale Caad 10, Alan Super Record; Steel - Pinarello Super Record). I was so glad to meet you at the One Love Ride in ATL (I was the guy who noticed you in the sea of bikers at the first rest stop and introduced myself). Please keep your video content coming. Peace, Chris
Good vid Bro! Man the Colago is the most beautiful bike Bro!!!! The whole bike is the best, say no more!!! It’s the most comfortable and performance is second to none!!!
Last year swapped out my Campy Record ,Carbon winter bike frame for a 653 steel frame …love it. Then found a 2014 Argon titanium frame on eBay. Pulled Campy Super Record bits from my Pinarello f8 and been riding it all year. Love it. Very smooth ride,climbs well. Very happy. No hurry to change! Still have a Carbon Ibis gravel bike and it is great- but if someone offered a swap for titanium gravel frame,would likely say yes!
I'm a beginner at 48, learning.. In regard to acceleration, I think much of it is the right gearing. Rigidity helps, but a balance of flex to rigidity for YOU matters.. And whoever said carbon doesn't "flex?" I think it does. I'm finding modern aluminum of all materials, has the happy medium. For me. Aerodynamics help. Despite going 18-20mph. I feel it in my P2.. I love titanium, but I hear horror stories with longevity. Titanium can be tough to work on. Carbon can be done with epoxy in 90% of the time. Steel seems to be very relative. But there are AWESOME steel frames. There are good steel bikes with rim brakes that weigh almost as much as carbon with discs.. Crazy, right? But me? Despite riding carbon at the moment, I think a good alu-alloy is where it's at...For me..
Would love to sit at a table with you, enjoying some beers, talking about all these bikes. My CroMo Surly Pacer talks to my soul and is my all day go long mount. My Trek Emonda is what I choose if I only have a couple hours to pound out some very fun/fast riding. My 2012 Supersix is what I will always choose when heading to the hills. If you are ever in Japan let me know! I’ll take you on some amazing rides. Peace.
My dream bike has always been a Titanium framed bike. I'm currently riding a Giant TCR 2009 composite frame bike, which I enjoy, as it forgives my inefficiencies. I had to get used to it as it is more race focused compared to my Raleigh Aluminium bike. Yes, rims make a huge difference as well. I changed my rims from Mavic Race to Mavic Ksyrium and it was so fast and direct, that I almost fell twice on my first ride out.😂 The dream titanium bike is brand is the beautiful Van Nicholas frame, but I would settle for a Lightspeed Ti. Maybe one day, when I grow up!🤣 Thanx for keeping the old school frames alive!
Thanks for the insights. For anybody curious, you want to know how I know the material of what you ride matters? I have a dedicated indoor trainer bike (aluminum frame on a wahoo) and I made it more comfortable by doing nothing but changing the seat post from stock aluminum to aftermarket carbon. There aren’t even any wheels on the bike and I’m definitely not hitting any bumps, so it’s nothing to do with tire size.
Based on some 30+ years of experience riding I would go with Titanium, Carbon and then Steel. Having all three materials Ti will last the longest as I have a 1994 Litespeed Classic that I still use today. Great for winter riding. I wouldn't do that with the other materials here in the north. For aesthetics like just about everyone said and that would be steel. I have a Pinarello Stelvio from the 90's that I have retired and thinking of pulling the parts off and mounting the frame/fork (steel fork) on the wall. Great vid btw!
I’ve got a bike made out of each of those materials. They are all custom builds and they all perform as they were expected to do. The only differences that I can feel are in the tire and wheels that i run on them.
Hi Luis, you observations about the Darkstar transmitting bumps may be down to the Columbus Spirit tubing, which is a high tensile steel, as well the larger tube diameters compared to traditional steel profiles. A 1mm difference in diameter makes a big difference in stiffness. An SLX or similar tubing is more to what you would expect. Currently have an COLUMBUS SL Paganini bike with steel fork, ( rebuilding a carbon fork Colnago Master light right now) , a B’spoke Ti all road, and Cannondale Super Six. My observations are muddled because of different tyre sizes, but I love them all!
I have a 20 yr old Marinoni Piuma made of Columbus Spirit with short road geometry(chainstay less than 410mm). With a steel fork it rides smoothly on bumpy roads and has a lively feel. But not quite as nice as my 531 Raleigh International running 35mm tires. I also have another Raleigh that is a mix of Reynolds 531 and 725 tubing. With 30c tires it feels planted and responsive but a bit harsh on bumpy surfaces. I tried to cold set the rear triangle to 130mm and it would not budge. With modern frames, I had a Soma Pescadero with relaxed endurance geo. It felt dull compared to the Raleigh or the Marinoi. It is made with Tange Prestige tubing. Like reading a recipe, the ingredients make a dish but the cook can make it plain or great. The frame builder tunes the result to best suit the intended purpose. A bit of Alchemy at play sometimes.
I road steel bikes for 60 years, then got a custom Ti bike. Ti takes stiffness to a whole new level. What impressed me most is how much crisper the shifting was. I really like my Ti bike, a real step up from steel.
As always another great video. I currently have a Ti, aluminum, carbon. For comfort/feel hands down the Ti wins, it’s a toss up between the Alu & carbon for all around performance. Type of ride dictates which I use…
Have you ridden a Ritchey Road Logic perhaps? It's a light steel racing frame that has been progressively modernised over the last 30 years. I love mine, which I built up this year, but I wonder how it would compare to the bikes in your stable.
Steel and Titanium are great both ride and aesthetically. The triangle geometry has more to do with bumps absorption than the material itself. I love my 2 waterford lugged bikes and 1 tig welded bikes and each ride completely differently.
I think for a lot of folks, the choice comes down to price point. Many aluminum and steel bikes are relatively affordable. Carbon is the mid tier from a price standpoint usually and then good titanium bikes are often premium options. There are some exceptions but that’s usually the deal. What I have found after owning and trying lots of different bikes made out of different materials is that you can often make a really solid to super nice bike out of any frame material and most mainstream framesets. Like others have said, component and wheel choices/upgrades can have a significant impact on a bike’s ride quality. Given that, I always recommend people getting what appeals to them that they can truly afford and then upgrading wheels and components over time. Just enjoy the ride I say and don’t get overly caught up in frame materials or bike brand etc. Great channel by the way. 👍🏾
A bike really matters :). I have a Scott Addict 20 from 2018 around 8kg. I tried an old cannondale super six 2008 from a colleague. 7.6 kg. No idea why, but the old cannondale was much more responsive. On all strava segments I was vrom 20 to 50 seconds faster, most of the segments are 7% + climbs. It does matter the bike you ride!
Great video and interesting comparison. I wonder how these bikes would compare with your Cannondale CAAD10 (a pure criterium bike). For me right now when the weather is fine, I am riding mostly steel a Vetta made of Dedacciai Zero Uno in full Shimano Dura Ace 7800 with Mavic Cosmic Carbon SCC wheels. It is filled brazed and has a megatube. It is responsive and lighter than my original Peugeot Prestige made of Reynolds 708 classic. I have four other road bike steel frame projects, two of them being Dedacciai 18 MCDV6HT (One is a 1994 Pinarello Stelvio and the other one is 1994 Basso Viper), one of them being Columbus Overmax (a special variant of the max tubing made for Grandis) and one of them made in Columbus Genius with Megatube (Fausto Copi Legano 53) plus seven aluminium road bike projects (one 1999 De Rosa Planet made of Dedacciai 7003, 2003 De Rosa Merak made of Dedacciai SC 6110a, 2001 Piton made of Dedacciai SC 6110a, 2005 Veneto Art made of Columbus Altec 2, Fausto Coppi K14 in Columbus Altec, Cannondale CAAD4 and 1999 Trek 2300SL, all of them have carbon forks except the De Rosa Planet ). I have riden in the past a Basso Zer made of Dedacciai 7003 ABT and it was a fantastic bike regarding handling , pedaling power when you are at a good rythm, you go fast. The dedacciai SC6110A is an aluminium which was very highly rated , I tested it when riding a friend's Fondriest, this aluminium was comfy yet light and stiff. Handling was very close to a titanium frame but without the feeling of the softness of titanium, it was accelerating quickly and in descent it was a ure and extremely stable ride. The Columbus Altec frames I bought them because I know that professional teams like Mapei, Rabobank, MG Technogym and Polti used these tubings either on Colnago and Coppi frames with great successes. I testrode a Fausto Coppi K14 many years ago, it left to me very good impressions when it came to handling , lightness and nervosity when you are pushing. The CAAD4 is a classic and its perfect finished welds and its legendary made it a no brainer when buying the frame. The Trek 2300, is something I always wanted since one of the guy I was riding with in my club back in the time I was road bike racing , told me about how it the 1999 Trek SLR 2300 frame combined the best qualities of a close triathlon frame into race road bike it also has a wishbone in the rear and is despite somewhat being heavier than my other frames 2500gr compared to 1700-1800gr , it is stiffer. I testrode his and indeed it is a stiff bike but yet the slr tubing makes it comfy. The steering on this one was quick, the handling was very precise and the acceleration quite fast, it is a very agressive bike despite the frame is being 25 years old. Carbon bikes I have testriden a number of them (Look KG 196, Trek OCLV 5900, Look KG496, Colnago C40 to name a few) but too much stiff for me and my back, I had the horrible impression to ride on a piece of wood. I will go and continue building my projects with shimano dura ace 7800 which is despite no more produced gives phenomenal output and top notch quality shifting for the money. Some bike tubings that are good for ones aren't necessarily good for others. Ride safe and have a nice week Luis.
that should be possible with Ti frames aswell right? I always thought the structural qualities of steel and titanium are very similar, but ti being rust resistant and (slightly) lighter.
@@rrluthi1 did not know that! That explains a lot! Currently investigating what bike I should buy next spring. Can’t afford to buy 3. Have a steel fixed gear and a 2015 carbon road bike and 2022 canyon grizl.
There is a video showing all the TDF winner bikes. The first thing I noticed is now beautiful all the race bikes from the 70s and 80s were, these do look graceful and sleek. Nowadays, they look like ugly lumps.
Luis Did you know that Panasonic is still making steel bikes by hand in Japan. They are only sold and made to order. Look for videos about the Panasonic bicycle Factory made by hand. When you see how they are made you will want to get one.
I'm in the process of getting a Custom Ti bike based off the geometry of the Blackheart. Looking forward to comparing it to my Carbon and Aluminum frames. I'm hoping the Ti bike is suited for long distance rides, if all out speed is needed I have the Carbon bike.
The best true comparison would be to run the same seatpost, saddle, wheels, and tires between the different frames. Most compliance comes from those components and NOT the frame.
You need to use the same tire size with the bikes to really tell the difference. I was using 30mm with my moots and the bike felt amazing and stable but never felt fast or snappy. I downsized to 28mm and the bike now feels faster, snappier and just more alive. Did you use the same tire size when testing all those bikes?
I use Vittoria Corsa Next or Control in size 28 on all except the Darkstar which can only take 26s. And I agree, I think 28s on the Darkstar will change it a bit.
I’m guessing your Darkstar has oversized tubes and the Bianchi has the classic skinny tubes, it definitely makes a big difference. I have a Reynolds 853 gravel bike with standard modern oversized tubes, and a Ribble triple butted Reynolds 725 single speed with skinnier tubes, and the Ribble is just smooth as butter, and the 853 gravel bike is smooth and mutes some chatter, but it’s a little harsh in comparison to the Single Speed….
Hi Steve. Actually, the Bianchi Pinella has oversized tubes. The downtube of both bikes are very similar. The main difference between both being the headtube, bottom bracket and chain stays.
Aesthetics, I love looking at a modern carbon bike because of the lines and shapes they can achieve. I find it a kin to looking at a supercar like a Ferrari or Lamborghini. They just look sexy. I love the lines of the Pinarello Dogma F, Canyon Aeroad, BMC Team Machine, and Bianchi Oltre XR4. But for a classic look, you can't beat steel. It's kind of like looking at an old classic Porsche or Alfa Romeo. I love an old vintage steel frame with lugs, chrome fork, tan walls, and shiny silver components. As for Ti, they all look the same to me and they don't do anything for me.
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and it was really interesting to see the results of your testing. A few questions and guesses came to mind. What’s the wheelset and tire size of your Road Ti? Disc brakes can accommodate wider tires which we know can improve comfort greatly. My guess with the Road Ti is also its T47 bottom bracket is the biggest contributor to its immediacy when riding out of the saddle. But its other tubes could be engineered more towards stiffness to improve handling. Which brings me to my surprise with the handling of the Darkstar. It’s steel which is heavier but its main and secondary triangles are larger given its straight top tube. This could reduce the overall stiffness a bit but the engineering of its tubes mightve been that good. Also I think the carbon spokes of your Lun Hypers on that bike couldve improved that handling.
Thanks for watching. The Basso and the Road Ti were fitted with 28s even though they could accommodate larger and the Darkstar is limited to 26s. Thanks for sharing your observations 👍🏾
I can sit and state at a pure steel frame [not modern steel frame] with down tube shifters, tubulars, etc, for a whole day. This is what the Italian bicycle aficionados call “bici eroica” However, I can also gloat at a Pinarello F [rim brakes] . . . for an eternity!
I don't have a great deal of experience. I have a Canyon Endurace and to me it feels amazing. Responsive, stiff but not harsh. But recently I've become very curious about Ti. I really like the fact that a Ti frame will last a lifetime. Carbon, probably not. BTW, my Endurace is
Magnesium brother... Stronger than steel, compliance of Titanium, as stiff as aluminum and almost as light as carbon. It feels like all of them when you ride it. You jump on the pedals and it launches you forward, nice & snappy. It's tight in sharp turns. It smooths out the roads and is silent. There's no dead feeling, you feel the road, but not the imperfections; it feels connected.
i have a old (2007 i guess) cervelo p3 moded as road bike. it may not be the most comfortable and not realy fits my riding(most city commuting) it feels fast, is light( abou 7.2kg) its fun to ride and it looks great to me so i want to ride it moor then my 1998 peugot performace 3000 steelbike or my cube agree carbon. they are nice but simply not as much fun to use. but a raw titanium bike with thin tubing and a litle wider tires could be a copaditor(in my head) thanks for the entertaining video.
Having had both custom steel and titanium they are a toss up between what you want to do with them. Having 5 titanium bikes it's very hard for me to say they all ride the same. Two of the 5 are stiffer than the rest. 2 of them are extremely comfortable for hours. I think since you have 2 bikes that can do everything you really need (colnago and bianchi) it's hard for you to pick another bike that could be a hybrid of the two since you don't really need it. Of my 5 bikes I can easily pick 2 and just ride those for the rest of my life because they fill both my needs based on my riding style and area. It's always nice to switch up a bit sometimes so that's why we have...more than a few bikes.
Great question! In the area of acceleration, the Darkstar is a bit more responsive, so the Pinella would trail the others there. Handling, about the same. Compliance, it would be second behind the Road Ti. So, some areas would be a bit different. 👍🏾
6:05 Yeah, there is science and there is your butt on the road. Same thing with 'wind tunnel data', especially as a selling point. Who feels it knows it [Bob Marley]👍👍👍
First, regardless of material, one can build characteristics that would completely make each material anything from stiff and harsh to smooth and compliant. So these comparisons are somewhat irrelevant, especially when adding the rider weight. Personally, for performance, I would take carbon any day, especially carbon wheels, to keep the weight reasonably light, especially when lately bikes are starting to be more and more porky.
Shouldn’t you compare the different frames with the same wheels? In terms of comfort I can change the feel (comfort and responsiveness) by swapping out different sets of wheels. For instance a modern set of Campy Ventos is quicker (lighter) and more comfortable than my vintage 1990s Ventos. By the same token I have an old set of Electrons that are more compliant (and lighter) than the newer Ventos. In my case I get the best ride out of a set of carbon Boras. My point is I think you need to run the same wheels on each frame.
It comes down to geometry, tube selection and overall frameset design, not materials. A ti frame can be built with some compliance to ride comfortably and it can be built to ride like a stiff surfboard. One of the biggest myths about both steel and ti bikes is that they are all sooooo comfortable. Complete placebo effect urban legend rehashed nonsense. There are CF bikes out there that can absolutely ride as comfortably as any ti or steel frame bike or even more comfortably. PeakTorque has a few very good YT vids on the urban legend myths of ti and steel bikes riding "smoothly." Go ride for example a Litespeed Ultimate or Vortex. I would challenge anyone to claim that is a comfortable all day ride. Go take a Pegoretti Marcelo or a Big Leg Emma for a ride and claim those are buttery smooth steel rides. Sorry, they ain't! I used to ride a Carl Strong Foco steel bike with tubes that were not oversized at all. Easily one of the very harshest rides I have ever been on. Same for a Serotta Legend ti frameset. Nothing about those frames was comfortable, nor all day long lounge chair type rides. Heck, my 2014 Cervelo R3 with oversized CF tubes puts both those rides to shame from both an all day comfort and performance standpoint IMO. Don't believe the hype that just because you are getting a ti frameset or a small diameter steel tubed frameset that somehow means you are automatically getting comfort, because that is simply a perpetuated untrue urban legend. Steel and ti can be built to ride harsh and stiff and they can be built to ride with a good deal of compliance, but neither automatically yields a butter smooth ride, and even narrow diameter steel tubes with thick walls can build a very unforgiving frameset.
If carbon fibre is superior to aluminum then how is cannondale able to claim its caad13 outperforms all competitors bikes made of carbon fibre? False advertising/marketing is illegal in the USA.
@@luthermclain2959 I own a full carbon bike also... apples and oranges. Nothing beats classic steel with lugs aesthetically and the ride feel is superior - imo. I'm waiting on my Panasonic FRCC13 order.
The statement about the wheel change on the Diamante says it all! Wheel and tires make as big a difference to ride feel as frame material.
I generally agree. I kept the tire size the same. The difference in the wheel change was more in the area of performance, though, as it didn't change the feel much. 👍🏾
Great content . you’ve now got everyone talking about the individual experience with different types of bikes , which is excellent but ultimately it doesn’t matter what you’ve got. Just ride your bike and enjoy the feeling of freedom.
Well said!
0:01 Titanium is the correct answer. Can’t wait to watch the rest of the video and see if you got it right? 😉
I’m joking of course! 🙃
No I’m not. 😄
Or am I? 😏
Update 13:16
If you have enough experience on titanium bikes and you can be honest with yourself about it’s many advantages, you will be very reluctant to choose carbon frames ever again. As for steel, it’s almost as good as titanium, it’s often cheaper and if you are just going on looks, I will have to admit (even though I don’t like to, but I’m being honest with myself) that steel will always be the best looking. I understand that space age looking carbon bikes can look amazing, but they age like women with plastic surgery… steel and Ti are ageless. 😎
Check out Calfee Dragonfly. I have one, they are sublime. But so are my steel and Ti
😂😂😂
Not the women/plastic surgery analogy...
We will see, when I get a Ti bike in here permanently how that plays out.
Thanks for watching Reginald👍🏾
Thumbs up to you, sir! Another excellent video from a rider's perspective with no bias from a sponsor or advertiser influence. I've never ridden a carbon bike, so I have no opinion there, but I do have experience in the other 3 materials, and I just love the feel of a good designed Ti bike. There's something about it that I haven't quite figured out how to put it into words. I am not a spoiled "one percenter," I've worked very hard to afford my Turner ArTi and love every minute of riding time, as well as the aesthetics of that brushed titanium. Respect!!!
Hey Mario! Thank you for sharing your experience 👍🏾
Your Bianchi is my favorite to look at.
Me too🤭
For aesthetics, one can't beat the classic steel frames produced by the now retired custom frame builder Richard Sachs - beautiful brazed frames built over his 40+ years in the business.
👍🏾
I ridden various bicycle tubing frames from True Temper PLATINUM, Reynolds 853, Columbus SLX, Columbus SL, Tange Ultimate PRESTIGE, Ritchey Logic, Titanium, Carbon, Carbon/ Steel bonded frames. The Reynolds 853 and True Temper Platinum had a similar feel to the titanium comfy very responsive. The carbon was incredibly light but felt dead to me. The most comfortable frames to me were the Ritchey Logic, Columbus SLX/SL and the amazing Tange Ultimate PRESTIGE frames. If I were to choose, it would be steel slightly over titanium. My Ritchey and Reynolds 853 tubed bikes are amazing. I wish I kept the steel Tange Ultimate PRESTIGE frame absolute classic ride
Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
Long Live Ti, it's all about the wheelbase and Fork Rake. That's the major key, great call out about the 73-73.5 degree angle. I have a Canyon Aeroad and my BlackPedal Ti, once you elect to go custom geometry with a Ti...you are set for life. Great Video! #BlackPedalCo.
Thank you Sabian. Your bike is epic!
I agree
Great commentary. As a former cat 1 roadie, I’ve ridden many many bikes, like you. I’ve had old Merlin Ti bikes. Litespeed Ti/Carbon mix and every brand of carbon bike since 2005 to current Brands. Last carbon frame I had was canyon Aeroad, great bike. “Felt” fast …but cracked in less than 30 days at the chainstay (where all my carbon frames have cracked from every modern carbon frame manufacture). This led me back to Ti. I’m no longer a racer but still want a performance feeling bike with a good, dare I say, comfortable ride? I went with custom Ti, T47 BB, custom geo (yes 73-74° angles 😊). Dropped, thin seat stays, beefy chainstays and obviously thru-axels etc. I call it a modern classic and it’s such a great bike! Great looking great riding and plenty fast. Like you said “run what you brung” and enjoy. Great video.
Your custom bikensounds like a beast! Thanks for sharing
@ it is! Wish I could send a pic. Really sharp looking and fast. Thank you. Check out Sanitas cycles when you have a chance. They are who built it for me. 😊
I own a 2023 Ritchey road logic steel bike and a 2016 trek domane carbon bike (before they became gravel bikes ). I ride both - they are in different places. I can confirm your views. The Domane is stiff in the bottom bracket and light overall and accelerates faster. The Ritchey, despite its more aggressive geometry takes better care of me on long rides. On a 100km plus ride where comfort matters to performance I think the Ritchey performs better. It’s also my favorite bike.
Thanks for sharing your experience 👍🏾
Luis, once again, what great comparative video. I have to ride a carbon fiber framed bike to feel the difference (I have Aluminum - Cannondale Caad 10, Alan Super Record; Steel - Pinarello Super Record). I was so glad to meet you at the One Love Ride in ATL (I was the guy who noticed you in the sea of bikers at the first rest stop and introduced myself). Please keep your video content coming. Peace, Chris
Hi Chris. Good to meet you as well. That was a fantastic weekend!
Good vid Bro! Man the Colago is the most beautiful bike Bro!!!! The whole bike is the best, say no more!!! It’s the most comfortable and performance is second to none!!!
It does look the business👍🏾
Last year swapped out my Campy Record ,Carbon winter bike frame for a 653 steel frame …love it. Then found a 2014 Argon titanium frame on eBay. Pulled Campy Super Record bits from my Pinarello f8 and been riding it all year. Love it. Very smooth ride,climbs well. Very happy. No hurry to change! Still have a Carbon Ibis gravel bike and it is great- but if someone offered a swap for titanium gravel frame,would likely say yes!
Nice! Thanks for sharing Felix👍🏾
I'm a beginner at 48, learning.. In regard to acceleration, I think much of it is the right gearing. Rigidity helps, but a balance of flex to rigidity for YOU matters.. And whoever said carbon doesn't "flex?" I think it does. I'm finding modern aluminum of all materials, has the happy medium. For me. Aerodynamics help. Despite going 18-20mph. I feel it in my P2.. I love titanium, but I hear horror stories with longevity. Titanium can be tough to work on. Carbon can be done with epoxy in 90% of the time. Steel seems to be very relative. But there are AWESOME steel frames. There are good steel bikes with rim brakes that weigh almost as much as carbon with discs.. Crazy, right? But me? Despite riding carbon at the moment, I think a good alu-alloy is where it's at...For me..
Would love to sit at a table with you, enjoying some beers, talking about all these bikes. My CroMo Surly Pacer talks to my soul and is my all day go long mount. My Trek Emonda is what I choose if I only have a couple hours to pound out some very fun/fast riding. My 2012 Supersix is what I will always choose when heading to the hills. If you are ever in Japan let me know! I’ll take you on some amazing rides. Peace.
Thank you Kerry! I like beer... and talking bikes. Japan is on my list as well. I appreciate the invite🙏🏾
My dream bike has always been a Titanium framed bike. I'm currently riding a Giant TCR 2009 composite frame bike, which I enjoy, as it forgives my inefficiencies. I had to get used to it as it is more race focused compared to my Raleigh Aluminium bike. Yes, rims make a huge difference as well. I changed my rims from Mavic Race to Mavic Ksyrium and it was so fast and direct, that I almost fell twice on my first ride out.😂 The dream titanium bike is brand is the beautiful Van Nicholas frame, but I would settle for a Lightspeed Ti. Maybe one day, when I grow up!🤣 Thanx for keeping the old school frames alive!
Hi Prince! Thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍🏾
Thanks for the insights. For anybody curious, you want to know how I know the material of what you ride matters? I have a dedicated indoor trainer bike (aluminum frame on a wahoo) and I made it more comfortable by doing nothing but changing the seat post from stock aluminum to aftermarket carbon. There aren’t even any wheels on the bike and I’m definitely not hitting any bumps, so it’s nothing to do with tire size.
Based on some 30+ years of experience riding I would go with Titanium, Carbon and then Steel. Having all three materials Ti will last the longest as I have a 1994 Litespeed Classic that I still use today. Great for winter riding. I wouldn't do that with the other materials here in the north. For aesthetics like just about everyone said and that would be steel. I have a Pinarello Stelvio from the 90's that I have retired and thinking of pulling the parts off and mounting the frame/fork (steel fork) on the wall. Great vid btw!
Thanks for watching and sharing your experience John 👍🏾
I’ve got a bike made out of each of those materials. They are all custom builds and they all perform as they were expected to do. The only differences that I can feel are in the tire and wheels that i run on them.
Thanks for sharing your experience 👍🏾
Hi Luis, you observations about the Darkstar transmitting bumps may be down to the Columbus Spirit tubing, which is a high tensile steel, as well the larger tube diameters compared to traditional steel profiles. A 1mm difference in diameter makes a big difference in stiffness. An SLX or similar tubing is more to what you would expect.
Currently have an COLUMBUS SL Paganini bike with steel fork, ( rebuilding a carbon fork Colnago Master light right now) , a B’spoke Ti all road, and Cannondale Super Six.
My observations are muddled because of different tyre sizes, but I love them all!
I have a 20 yr old Marinoni Piuma made of Columbus Spirit with short road geometry(chainstay less than 410mm). With a steel fork it rides smoothly on bumpy roads and has a lively feel. But not quite as nice as my 531 Raleigh International running 35mm tires. I also have another Raleigh that is a mix of Reynolds 531 and 725 tubing. With 30c tires it feels planted and responsive but a bit harsh on bumpy surfaces. I tried to cold set the rear triangle to 130mm and it would not budge. With modern frames, I had a Soma Pescadero with relaxed endurance geo. It felt dull compared to the Raleigh or the Marinoi. It is made with Tange Prestige tubing.
Like reading a recipe, the ingredients make a dish but the cook can make it plain or great. The frame builder tunes the result to best suit the intended purpose. A bit of Alchemy at play sometimes.
I road steel bikes for 60 years, then got a custom Ti bike. Ti takes stiffness to a whole new level. What impressed me most is how much crisper the shifting was. I really like my Ti bike, a real step up from steel.
Thanks for sharing your experience 👍🏾
As always another great video. I currently have a Ti, aluminum, carbon. For comfort/feel hands down the Ti wins, it’s a toss up between the Alu & carbon for all around performance. Type of ride dictates which I use…
Great point!
Have you ridden a Ritchey Road Logic perhaps? It's a light steel racing frame that has been progressively modernised over the last 30 years. I love mine, which I built up this year, but I wonder how it would compare to the bikes in your stable.
I have not... but I think it is about time that I do.
As always, love hearing your POV Luis. Thanks for sharing! And looks like we need to send you a Road AL to test 🖤
Hey Zach! I am ready for it 👍🏾
Steel and Titanium are great both ride and aesthetically. The triangle geometry has more to do with bumps absorption than the material itself. I love my 2 waterford lugged bikes and 1 tig welded bikes and each ride completely differently.
Great vid Luis. Thanks so much for all your work.
Thank you for watching Thomas!
I think for a lot of folks, the choice comes down to price point. Many aluminum and steel bikes are relatively affordable. Carbon is the mid tier from a price standpoint usually and then good titanium bikes are often premium options. There are some exceptions but that’s usually the deal. What I have found after owning and trying lots of different bikes made out of different materials is that you can often make a really solid to super nice bike out of any frame material and most mainstream framesets.
Like others have said, component and wheel choices/upgrades can have a significant impact on a bike’s ride quality. Given that, I always recommend people getting what appeals to them that they can truly afford and then upgrading wheels and components over time. Just enjoy the ride I say and don’t get overly caught up in frame materials or bike brand etc.
Great channel by the way. 👍🏾
Good insights. Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
A bike really matters :). I have a Scott Addict 20 from 2018 around 8kg. I tried an old cannondale super six 2008 from a colleague. 7.6 kg. No idea why, but the old cannondale was much more responsive. On all strava segments I was vrom 20 to 50 seconds faster, most of the segments are 7% + climbs. It does matter the bike you ride!
Absolutely Robert! Thanks for sharing that!
If I had to look at the bikes you have everyday in admiration, it would be the Pinella.
Great video and interesting comparison. I wonder how these bikes would compare with your Cannondale CAAD10 (a pure criterium bike). For me right now when the weather is fine, I am riding mostly steel a Vetta made of Dedacciai Zero Uno in full Shimano Dura Ace 7800 with Mavic Cosmic Carbon SCC wheels. It is filled brazed and has a megatube. It is responsive and lighter than my original Peugeot Prestige made of Reynolds 708 classic. I have four other road bike steel frame projects, two of them being Dedacciai 18 MCDV6HT (One is a 1994 Pinarello Stelvio and the other one is 1994 Basso Viper), one of them being Columbus Overmax (a special variant of the max tubing made for Grandis) and one of them made in Columbus Genius with Megatube (Fausto Copi Legano 53) plus seven aluminium road bike projects (one 1999 De Rosa Planet made of Dedacciai 7003, 2003 De Rosa Merak made of Dedacciai SC 6110a, 2001 Piton made of Dedacciai SC 6110a, 2005 Veneto Art made of Columbus Altec 2, Fausto Coppi K14 in Columbus Altec, Cannondale CAAD4 and 1999 Trek 2300SL, all of them have carbon forks except the De Rosa Planet ). I have riden in the past a Basso Zer made of Dedacciai 7003 ABT and it was a fantastic bike regarding handling , pedaling power when you are at a good rythm, you go fast. The dedacciai SC6110A is an aluminium which was very highly rated , I tested it when riding a friend's Fondriest, this aluminium was comfy yet light and stiff. Handling was very close to a titanium frame but without the feeling of the softness of titanium, it was accelerating quickly and in descent it was a ure and extremely stable ride. The Columbus Altec frames I bought them because I know that professional teams like Mapei, Rabobank, MG Technogym and Polti used these tubings either on Colnago and Coppi frames with great successes. I testrode a Fausto Coppi K14 many years ago, it left to me very good impressions when it came to handling , lightness and nervosity when you are pushing. The CAAD4 is a classic and its perfect finished welds and its legendary made it a no brainer when buying the frame. The Trek 2300, is something I always wanted since one of the guy I was riding with in my club back in the time I was road bike racing , told me about how it the 1999 Trek SLR 2300 frame combined the best qualities of a close triathlon frame into race road bike it also has a wishbone in the rear and is despite somewhat being heavier than my other frames 2500gr compared to 1700-1800gr , it is stiffer. I testrode his and indeed it is a stiff bike but yet the slr tubing makes it comfy. The steering on this one was quick, the handling was very precise and the acceleration quite fast, it is a very agressive bike despite the frame is being 25 years old. Carbon bikes I have testriden a number of them (Look KG 196, Trek OCLV 5900, Look KG496, Colnago C40 to name a few) but too much stiff for me and my back, I had the horrible impression to ride on a piece of wood. I will go and continue building my projects with shimano dura ace 7800 which is despite no more produced gives phenomenal output and top notch quality shifting for the money. Some bike tubings that are good for ones aren't necessarily good for others. Ride safe and have a nice week Luis.
Steel bikes look the best. I love the classic skinny tubes of a lightweight steel bike.
I can't keep my eye off of those things 👍🏾
that should be possible with Ti frames aswell right? I always thought the structural qualities of steel and titanium are very similar, but ti being rust resistant and (slightly) lighter.
@@Koen030NL I think that steel is much stiffer than Ti, so Ti requires larger diameter tubing.
@@rrluthi1 did not know that! That explains a lot! Currently investigating what bike I should buy next spring. Can’t afford to buy 3. Have a steel fixed gear and a 2015 carbon road bike and 2022 canyon grizl.
There is a video showing all the TDF winner bikes. The first thing I noticed is now beautiful all the race bikes from the 70s and 80s were, these do look graceful and sleek. Nowadays, they look like ugly lumps.
Luis
Did you know that Panasonic is still making steel bikes by hand in Japan. They are only sold and made to order. Look for videos about the Panasonic bicycle Factory made by hand. When you see how they are made you will want to get one.
@1a2b3c4. I didn't know, but just watched the video. Thank you for bringing it to my attention 👍🏾
Your good at this,very easy to watch and listen to.
Thank you 🙏🏾
I appreciate that 👍🏾
Would love to see a Basso Diamante and Colnago VR3 showdown!
I might just do that.
I find my steel (Reynolds 531) tubing are vague when it comes to acceleration compared to my carbon bike.
I'm in the process of getting a Custom Ti bike based off the geometry of the Blackheart. Looking forward to comparing it to my Carbon and Aluminum frames. I'm hoping the Ti bike is suited for long distance rides, if all out speed is needed I have the Carbon bike.
Nice! Best of luck on that build👍🏾
No love for Aluminum!!! Naw just playing, thanks for another insightful video.
😂 I ❤️ Aluminum. Thanks for watching Chris!
Thank you for such an interesting comparison. I have only rode steel and Ti. At the moment for me Ti wins outs❤❤
Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
The best true comparison would be to run the same seatpost, saddle, wheels, and tires between the different frames. Most compliance comes from those components and NOT the frame.
Another thing, there is so much range within a given material. Contemplate all the different types of steel tubing available for example
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You need to use the same tire size with the bikes to really tell the difference. I was using 30mm with my moots and the bike felt amazing and stable but never felt fast or snappy. I downsized to 28mm and the bike now feels faster, snappier and just more alive. Did you use the same tire size when testing all those bikes?
I use Vittoria Corsa Next or Control in size 28 on all except the Darkstar which can only take 26s. And I agree, I think 28s on the Darkstar will change it a bit.
I’m guessing your Darkstar has oversized tubes and the Bianchi has the classic skinny tubes, it definitely makes a big difference. I have a Reynolds 853 gravel bike with standard modern oversized tubes, and a Ribble triple butted Reynolds 725 single speed with skinnier tubes, and the Ribble is just smooth as butter, and the 853 gravel bike is smooth and mutes some chatter, but it’s a little harsh in comparison to the Single Speed….
Hi Steve. Actually, the Bianchi Pinella has oversized tubes. The downtube of both bikes are very similar. The main difference between both being the headtube, bottom bracket and chain stays.
Aesthetics, I love looking at a modern carbon bike because of the lines and shapes they can achieve. I find it a kin to looking at a supercar like a Ferrari or Lamborghini. They just look sexy. I love the lines of the Pinarello Dogma F, Canyon Aeroad, BMC Team Machine, and Bianchi Oltre XR4. But for a classic look, you can't beat steel. It's kind of like looking at an old classic Porsche or Alfa Romeo. I love an old vintage steel frame with lugs, chrome fork, tan walls, and shiny silver components. As for Ti, they all look the same to me and they don't do anything for me.
Thanks for sharing Neri 👍🏾
I thoroughly enjoyed this video and it was really interesting to see the results of your testing.
A few questions and guesses came to mind.
What’s the wheelset and tire size of your Road Ti? Disc brakes can accommodate wider tires which we know can improve comfort greatly.
My guess with the Road Ti is also its T47 bottom bracket is the biggest contributor to its immediacy when riding out of the saddle. But its other tubes could be engineered more towards stiffness to improve handling.
Which brings me to my surprise with the handling of the Darkstar. It’s steel which is heavier but its main and secondary triangles are larger given its straight top tube. This could reduce the overall stiffness a bit but the engineering of its tubes mightve been that good. Also I think the carbon spokes of your Lun Hypers on that bike couldve improved that handling.
Thanks for watching. The Basso and the Road Ti were fitted with 28s even though they could accommodate larger and the Darkstar is limited to 26s.
Thanks for sharing your observations 👍🏾
6 bikes. , Aluminum CX, aluminum Fat, carbon road, steel road, carbon e bike Ride1up, and my favorite, wood road. Steel is real, but wood you should.
Wood, you should! We are making T-shirts 👍🏾
@@thegoodwheel I actually did not copy that, it's mine. So maybe I should.
Great Channel!
Thanks for the visit!
I can sit and state at a pure steel frame [not modern steel frame] with down tube shifters, tubulars, etc, for a whole day.
This is what the Italian bicycle aficionados call “bici eroica”
However, I can also gloat at a Pinarello F [rim brakes] . . . for an eternity!
Skinny tubes... yes!
You still here mate. Hows your buddy eldred? 😊
I don't have a great deal of experience. I have a Canyon Endurace and to me it feels amazing. Responsive, stiff but not harsh. But recently I've become very curious about Ti. I really like the fact that a Ti frame will last a lifetime. Carbon, probably not. BTW, my Endurace is
Carbon will last a lifetime if you don't crash it.
Thanks brother, tailwinds to ya
Thank you Carl 👍🏾
Aluminum is my favorite.
Aluminum is great 👍🏾
Magnesium brother...
Stronger than steel, compliance of Titanium, as stiff as aluminum and almost as light as carbon. It feels like all of them when you ride it. You jump on the pedals and it launches you forward, nice & snappy. It's tight in sharp turns. It smooths out the roads and is silent. There's no dead feeling, you feel the road, but not the imperfections; it feels connected.
i have a old (2007 i guess) cervelo p3 moded as road bike. it may not be the most comfortable and not realy fits my riding(most city commuting) it feels fast, is light( abou 7.2kg) its fun to ride and it looks great to me so i want to ride it moor then my 1998 peugot performace 3000 steelbike or my cube agree carbon. they are nice but simply not as much fun to use. but a raw titanium bike with thin tubing and a litle wider tires could be a copaditor(in my head) thanks for the entertaining video.
I had steal and aluminum and titanium all with the same tires and the titanium is by far the better ride.
Thanks for sharing Greg 👍🏾
What about scandium, magnesium, bamboo
Having had both custom steel and titanium they are a toss up between what you want to do with them. Having 5 titanium bikes it's very hard for me to say they all ride the same. Two of the 5 are stiffer than the rest. 2 of them are extremely comfortable for hours.
I think since you have 2 bikes that can do everything you really need (colnago and bianchi) it's hard for you to pick another bike that could be a hybrid of the two since you don't really need it. Of my 5 bikes I can easily pick 2 and just ride those for the rest of my life because they fill both my needs based on my riding style and area. It's always nice to switch up a bit sometimes so that's why we have...more than a few bikes.
Thanks for sharing that insight. There is no doubt that the emotional attachment does register in what our preference will be. 👍🏾
Would the result be different if you were to substitute your Pinela for the Darkstar in this comparison?
Great question! In the area of acceleration, the Darkstar is a bit more responsive, so the Pinella would trail the others there. Handling, about the same. Compliance, it would be second behind the Road Ti. So, some areas would be a bit different. 👍🏾
need this kind of comapro
Glad you like it Frederick. Thanks for watching 👍🏾
Aluminum alloy is still the best bang-for-buck frame material for most riders.
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Question, do you follow the pro scene, e.g., the recently finished La Vuelta?
Somewhat. I'll start watching, then walk away and end up catching the highlights.
@@thegoodwheel hahahaa, OK
6:05 Yeah, there is science and there is your butt on the road.
Same thing with 'wind tunnel data', especially as a selling point.
Who feels it knows it [Bob Marley]👍👍👍
Which IS the most important thing on a ride... not calculus
Me encantan tus vídeos
Muchisimas gracias 👍🏾
Not in the race but uhm, the Colnago is a looker.
Blackheart road ti💪💪💪
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Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and riding a steel frame bike DeRosa for me.( HEAVEN MUST BE LIKE THIS )
😂
So the best bike is the V3RS ?
@MieseType1985 it's the best for performance that I have ridden.
Titanium for me .
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First, regardless of material, one can build characteristics that would completely make each material anything from stiff and harsh to smooth and compliant. So these comparisons are somewhat irrelevant, especially when adding the rider weight. Personally, for performance, I would take carbon any day, especially carbon wheels, to keep the weight reasonably light, especially when lately bikes are starting to be more and more porky.
Shouldn’t you compare the different frames with the same wheels? In terms of comfort I can change the feel (comfort and responsiveness) by swapping out different sets of wheels. For instance a modern set of Campy Ventos is quicker (lighter) and more comfortable than my vintage 1990s Ventos. By the same token I have an old set of Electrons that are more compliant (and lighter) than the newer Ventos. In my case I get the best ride out of a set of carbon Boras. My point is I think you need to run the same wheels on each frame.
Hi there. Yes, with the exception of the Steel bike being rim brake. I'll do something like that in the future for sure. Thanks for watching 👍🏾
Ti is my next bike, I want it to last.
Good choice!
Everything you ride has a carbon fork, correct? None of the steel bikes has a steel fork?
Yes, both of my steel framed bikes have carbon forks.
Carbon gives the best feeling and stiffness. Why overcomplicate
I think science proces carbon is the stiffest
It comes down to geometry, tube selection and overall frameset design, not materials.
A ti frame can be built with some compliance to ride comfortably and it can be built to ride like a stiff surfboard. One of the biggest myths about both steel and ti bikes is that they are all sooooo comfortable. Complete placebo effect urban legend rehashed nonsense. There are CF bikes out there that can absolutely ride as comfortably as any ti or steel frame bike or even more comfortably.
PeakTorque has a few very good YT vids on the urban legend myths of ti and steel bikes riding "smoothly." Go ride for example a Litespeed Ultimate or Vortex. I would challenge anyone to claim that is a comfortable all day ride. Go take a Pegoretti Marcelo or a Big Leg Emma for a ride and claim those are buttery smooth steel rides. Sorry, they ain't! I used to ride a Carl Strong Foco steel bike with tubes that were not oversized at all. Easily one of the very harshest rides I have ever been on. Same for a Serotta Legend ti frameset. Nothing about those frames was comfortable, nor all day long lounge chair type rides. Heck, my 2014 Cervelo R3 with oversized CF tubes puts both those rides to shame from both an all day comfort and performance standpoint IMO.
Don't believe the hype that just because you are getting a ti frameset or a small diameter steel tubed frameset that somehow means you are automatically getting comfort, because that is simply a perpetuated untrue urban legend. Steel and ti can be built to ride harsh and stiff and they can be built to ride with a good deal of compliance, but neither automatically yields a butter smooth ride, and even narrow diameter steel tubes with thick walls can build a very unforgiving frameset.
Thanks for sharing
Darkstar a frame from china?
No, US built
As far as looks , it's the titanium bike for me...
@angela-onesroman8873 thanks for sharing your thoughts 👍🏾
Carbon, titanium and then steel‼️💯
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If carbon fibre is superior to aluminum then how is cannondale able to claim its caad13 outperforms all competitors bikes made of carbon fibre? False advertising/marketing is illegal in the USA.
Great video Luis. Been waiting for this one to hear what your findings are gonna be. 🫶
Thanks Michael! I appreciate you watching 👍🏾
Steel is real
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Carbon has soul. Just feel them together. Carbon is warmer than any metal.
@@luthermclain2959 I own a full carbon bike also... apples and oranges. Nothing beats classic steel with lugs aesthetically and the ride feel is superior - imo. I'm waiting on my Panasonic FRCC13 order.