James White: Purgatory Is Fiction
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มี.ค. 2024
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51:05 Can’t sin of unbelief be that deadly sin that erases your Justification? At least in the body. Wasn’t Apostle Paul talking about it in Hebrews 6?
Tank you.
I was RC for 20 years, the rest of my family still is. You technically can buy indulgences for dead loved ones still today actually, they just don't call it that of course. You pay for your loved one to be prayed for on specific days, for the repose of their soul, and the priest is supposedly able to help speed up the process if they are in purgatory. Again, they won't say it so plainly, but they've created processes to mask the transaction of money for supposedly helping your loved one get out of purgatory faster. I SO appreciate that Apologia tackles this topic head on as there are millions of people out there who believe they are Christians and desperately need the TRUE gospel. I can tell you from experience, you don't need to know the true God to be confirmed as a Catholic, you just need to be able to regurgitate the traditions and lines they tell you. When God saved me from that group, I had never even heard of a fair number of books in the Bible. Their organization is not there to bring people closer to our Lord in truth but to share their version and it is not a salvific version, unfortunately.
I can say similar things with LDS or Mormons. Baptism of the dead is a perfect example of some of their rituals in their temples. I never learned Jesus is God and when I did, it changed everything
I'm glad you got out. My family was RC, but we were never particularly hardcore. We started going more often in my early teens, I think. I vaguely remember classes for my first Communion. I don't think I ever got to Confirmation. What I do remember is what when I started going to my friend's Bible-teaching church and got saved at 18, I had never read the Bible. I had no clue what the gospel was.
@prof.solzhenitsyn235 just that name alone gives me shivers, ugh. It's horrifying that religions that claim to be Christian in nature withhold the truth of our Lord from their followers!
All glory to God to CHRIST , his finished with that yoke of no longer yours now we help Share Gods truth
Wow, that is absolutely evil. Praise the Lord that He saved you out of the RCC. May He continue to save His people from that deception and evil. I too was saved out of deception, the deception of the false gospel of "free grace" or "cheap grace".
I was raised catholic, went to school there for 8 yrs. Those yrs ending 1975. All those years we were taught purgatory being a place to cleanse our sins until we were pure in order to get to heaven. Thank God we all would leave the catholic and now a saved child of God, through Jesus Christ.
My wife is RC. I am reformed protestant made alive in Christ from the state of atheism two years ago. What brought you out of Catholicism? Any help would be appreciated. Shes a cradle Catholic. I desperately want her to exit that faith or as they call it “the faith” and enter into saving faith.
Thank you brother James for the truth. The gospel gets better every time I hear it, like honey for my soul.
Resting on what Jesus did for a wretch like me. AMEN!!!!!!!!
"The only hand the can grasp the hand of grace, is an empty hand"
WOW that stopped me in my tracks
Talk about a slap in the face to God after all he truly accomplished through his life, death, burial and resurrection!!!
Not sure how you could "insult" a God who intentionally makes people as "vessels of wrath" "prepared for destruction." God making creatures specifically so he can burn them is probably the most evil thing that any character in literature has ever done, yet Christians who believe this find ways to praise him for it nonetheless. Ditto any "insulting" thing the Catholics believe about him. If y'all can still praise him for those ideas you share about him, most of the small differences aren't anything more than an additional drop in an ocean of scandal.
1 Cor 3:15.
@@somexp12 I used to think along similar lines until I understood that we cannot even dream to comprehend motives and ways of a being that is infinitely other than we are. The gap between us and God is by far greater than the gap between a parent and a toddler.
And yet a toddler trusts his parents. And so should we trust in Him.
@@LOT116 Well, that's fine. But if he is so far above our comprehension, how could we insult him by saying his death applied only to original or original and mortal sin (or whatever Catholic doctrine is) or maybe that he distributed different benefits of his atonement through different channels. You've basically said he could do anything and be above our criticism, so how is anyone criticizing or insulting him by saying he set up a (to our eyes) bureaucratic atonement dispensary system. It makes zero difference how lacking in elegance it is to us. That's only how it is *to us.*
@LOT116 To phrase it differently: what the OP said is analogous to an arminian saying, "If God predestined people in that way, he'd be a monster. God is the source of goodness and, therefore, not a monster. Therefore, he didn't do it that way."
Or, it's analogous to an atheist saying, "If God exists and made Hell as the default for most people, he'd be evil. Therefore, he either doesn't exist, didn't do that, or is evil." (This is kinda a distortion of the "problem of evil," which, presented well, doesn't make reference to or have any dependence on human moral standards, but this distorted version is more relevant to this example.)
The OP essentially said, "The Catholic version has God being weak, silly, or bureaucratic. God can't be any of those things. Therefore, he didn't do it the Catholic way."
If a Calvinist comes back at these two and says, "Our judgement doesn't count because his ways are higher," then a Catholic could easily do the same, "It doesn't matter that it looks so bureaucratic to you. It's beautiful and elegant according to God's standards."
Dr. White has done his homework. We do indeed have peace through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Dr James White is a blessing to the Church
How? He constantly teaches false doctrine and continues to bring people away from the Church Jesus created.
@@BreRMatt240How?
@@ceciliaramos2280 sola Scriptura, purgatory being fiction, denying the papacy, etc… if you would like to discuss any of those specifically further I’d be happy to converse, as the Bible commands us to always seek the Truth and understand others.
@@BreRMatt240you big mad
@@chanano1689 you’re good I’d prob say the same thing too if my beliefs contradicted the Church Jesus created
I find it extremely interesting how similar the Roman Catholics are to the Pharisees of Jesus’ time. With all their additions to God’s Word, all their own traditions, laws, ideas that are non-existent in the Bible but being more important than clear teachings of Jesus himself. With their supposed heritage the Romans call themselves the only true Church just like those Pharisees claimed to be the sons of Abraham…. It’s truly sad…
Exactly! The parallels are glaring
Agreed. Protestants have differences but we all believe in the essentials: sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura. You can’t justify yourself by works, not even 0.1%. It’s all Christ’s work done for us.
It is. Not only that, but the arrogance and haughtiness they exhibit. The “one true church” they say - they would even call Christ a heretic by their own standards. The church starts and ends with Jesus!
I find it absolutely fascinating how much of the Bible, especially in the New Testament, including Jesus' own words, that people have to flat out ignore, or twist, in order to Deny the existence of Purgatory.
@@CatholicCarnivoreHousewife … for example…?
Thank you DrWhite for your faithfulness. I watched the debate and was saddened on how hopeless the catholic teachings are. This message you just gave is the true hope we have in Our Savior Jesus Christ.
Catholic teachings? You mean the teachings of Jesus? I’d love to hear what you think is a Catholic teaching that’s not Biblical. Why do you refuse to study Church history?
@@BreRMatt240 praying to Mary, Mary being a virgin after Jesus was born even though she had other children, purgatory , paying indulgences, ascending the holy marble stairs etc etc etc. I have my Bible and the teachings that tell me Jesus is my Lord and Savior. I do nothing for my salvation. Jesus died and shed his blood for us. No money I give no special prayer to Mary or any one no work I could ever do would be enough to make me justified, only Jesus him crucified and raised from the dead!
@@williewiner4161 how about 1 at a time so it’s just a bunch of essay comments back and forth. What do you start with, Mary purgatory or indulgences? Again, your last two sentences show the root of the issue. You’re interpreting things in your own opinion, and those interpretations are not the Catholic teaching. If you don’t understand the Catholic teaching then you can’t say it’s wrong. You’ve reached a conclusion before evaluating the evidence.
@@BreRMatt240 I have nothing else to say. You follow the path you want. I will follow the path I am on. I am no theologian, but have been introduced to a few different “religions “ I finally found truth. I listen to teachers Such as Dr.White, the late RcSproul. J. MacAuthur , my pastor, Pastor Chris Rosenourgh , Dr. Steve Lawson And others. They teach the Gospel and that’s all I need . Have a good day!
Beautiful message, Dr. White
What I appreciate about James White has been his careful study of Roman Catholicism particularly the Vatican's interpretation of scripture that is stated in the RC catechism. He has spent thousands of hours studying the Catholic faith including all the debates with Roman Catholic apologists. Tragically the average catholic has no idea what the council of Trent has to say regarding Justification. In fact, many Catholics don't even read the bible, and that is why they are so dependent on the priest for spiritual nourishment or the lack thereof. Other than marriage, the rest of the sacraments are form of bondage. Without the priesthood the foundation of Roman Catholicism falls like a house of cards.
Does the Bible teach that we have to be water baptized to be saved?
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 No. The Vatican will use John 3:3 as justification for water baptism, but that spiritual is a contrast of physical birth (womb) vs spiritual birth (Holy Spirit). In fact, infant baptism is not even mentioned in the bible.
@@Disciple793 We have to be water baptized to be saved (Acts 2:38).
@@BENJAMINJAMESSMITH2000 Scripture cannot contradict itself. Therefore Acts 2:38 must be able to stand against other passages. For example, Ephesians 2:8-9 Paul says, "You have been saved by grace through faith, and this is not of yourselves but a gift from God not of works so than no one may boast." Nothing we can do to save ourselves. Look at Romans 6:23, Romans 10:9, john 3:16, Romans 4:3, Romans 5:1, Gal 2:16 Gal 3:11. Salvation comes by faith. Water baptism is an outward sign to the world of what we have already done by putting our trust in Christ. Jewish converts to Christianity in the book of Acts believed that Jesus died for their sins, and they were saved. Afterwards they got baptized in water as a sign of their faith. The thief on the cross put his faith in Christ. Was he baptized with water? No. Don't take 1 passage out of context and create an entire theology around it. It must be consistent with the rest of scripture.
@@Disciple793 A person has to be water baptized to be saved (Acts 2:38). A person does a work to be given a reward (Romans 4:4). A person is not water baptized to be given a reward. Therefore a person being water baptized is not them doing a work. Jesus had to die for the first covenant to end (Hebrews 9:15-17). The Penitent Thief who was saved was saved before Jesus died. Therefore the Penitent Thief was saved before the first covenant ended. Christian water baptism wasn’t part of the first covenant. Therefore the Penitent Thief didn’t have to be water baptized to be saved.
In addition to biblical literacy classes, I honestly think we need basic reading comprehension classes. I'm saying this seriously. People these days don't seem to know that context is crucial when you are reading anything. Nor do they seem able to follow a train of thought, whether it's spoken or written. They can't even speak in coherent manner. Many people don't even know what a question is, or how to ask one. How do I know that? Because I do transcription for work. I hear the way people speak and how they respond to instructions and questions. It's absolutely maddening.
If people are incapable of reading/understanding regular books (that is, if they read books at all!) how can we expect them to understand God's Word? How often do we see people who have been professing Christians for decades/been in church for decades and they still take verses completely out of context? Do they also take a book of the shelf, open it anywhere, and expect to understand what's going on? Why do they treat the Bible that way?
It's maddening. People are becoming more illiterate by the day.
About 30 minutes in, talking about 1 Corinthians 3
See?! This is what I mean! How can you be raised knowing the English language, read that book (or even just the chapter), and conclude that "works" somehow is referring to converts?!
The same massacre of the English language is also being performed on the US Constitution.
@@MikeHammer1 Oh, that one is entirely intentional.
@@Yesica1993 That is true for those with evil intentions, but there is always a multitude of "useful idiots" to back them up.
I have also found this to be true. Many times have I began to seak my piece in a conversation only to be interrupted as soon as I finish the first phrase. The other person jumps in with some assumption of what I'm saying, a confused question, or even their own conclusion to my words. It's frustrating to have to back them up and tell them I wasn't done. If only they'd be patient enough to listen to the whole thing they might not be so confused. I've also encountered people who think the only possible reason I have a differing opinion from theirs is because I don't understand. So they'll expain again only to have me tell them, again, that I still think differently.
This was a wonderful sermon! I learned some things! Many thanks Dr. White!
Hell burns with Charcoal, but Purgatory burns with Natural Gas.
Which one has better steak?
I'm only 15 minutes in. But, ugh, these Catholic teachings are so insulting to Jesus and His sacrifice! Why did He even bother? And why don't people just open their Bibles?!
I think I read somthing somewhere about seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear. Tradition blinds us all
No more so than believing in 3 gods
Too bad we don't believe we worship three Gods
@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 say whatever you want but yes you do
You cannot be a "mono" theist and believe in a "tri" une god
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689 th-cam.com/play/PLST2Y3MIb4DWVq_0p2P1QGF0WOwsulfK8.html&si=PsQP5ZjM2yyHr15n
1 Corinthians 3 tells us about the Judgement of a man's work, which either abide or be burned. If the work abide, the man shall receive a reward. Whereas if the work is burned, then the man shall suffer loss, but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Amen!
so, purgatory must be true. yeah, sure, buddy.
context, context, context. You need to read it again.
Remember when Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with Me in purgatory" ?
@@vaekkriinhart4347 exactly "Paradise" is how Jesus described Purgatory to the thief on the Cross while St. Peter referred to the place Jesus went immediately after His Crucifixion and Before His Resurrection as a "Prison"
1 Peter 3:18-20.
So we immediately see that just like the term Trinity isn't found in the Bible, the concept that the One True God truly is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is. The actual words Purgatory & Trinity came later.
And Purgatory is truly both a Paradise and a Prison. Paradise in that is the last step before entering Heaven for all Eternity & Prison in that it's a waiting place from which one cannot leave until it's their time - and, according to that passage in context, the waiting time could take thousands of years, as those who were mentioned to be in it when Jesus entered it had been there since at least the days Noah, though likely since the beginning of creation beginning with Abel, the first human who died.
I watched the debate and the comment James makes at the beginning of this video about Trent Horn saying Paul was wrong about eschatology actually happened. I had to pause the video for a bit to recover.
God said to love my enemies so I loved myself. Jesus loves me and he loves you too.
The dialogue with Horn on the Allie Beth Stuckey show won't be on her "Relatable" podcast show, but will be behind a Daily Wire paywall under a new show named "Debatable", is what I heard Allie on one of her shows around the time of that dialogue. I was very disappointed!
Tks😄❤️🙏✝️🇨🇦
Begins at 2:52
lol people cant wait 3 minutes to find the start of the sermon. Thats the new society i guess. Its not like it was 12 minutes in or something. Someday we will be saying the sermon starts at 30 seconds
I can’t help wondering how Catholics aren’t terrified that the treasury of merit from the Saints might run out before they get to purgatory…
I can’t help but wonder why people who have no understanding of the Catholic position think they should comment on it. Actually, Proverbs 18:2 answers this dilemma for me.
@BreRMatt240
It appears that scripture applies to you too.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Brothers and sisters please dig deep. The truth will set you free. May the Holy Spirit will guide you to the truth. God bless you all.
1:00:00 does severing from Christ ( Galatians 5:4) mean withdrawal of Justification ?
James White does not decide what is truth and what is right. He is fully convinced that he is right about everything. His mind is completely closed off to other perspectives.
Except that he's on record changing his mind about things. He changed his eschatology a few years ago for example. So you're lying. You should repent.
Catholic hater thread. Proud Catholic here and love to all my Protestant brothers and sisters.
7:35 "Purgatory is not a second chance place"
Good on James White for getting this part right. I've seen a lot of Protestants get this incredibly wrong, issuing warnings to Catholics that Purgatory doesn't exist, as though the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory made the Catholic afterlife less severe. It absolutely doesn't!
The Catholic Church actually has a narrower path to stay out of Hell (faith *plus works,* you know), and Purgatory is a place where the winners go. You *want* to get into Purgatory. Sure, it's better to make it directly into Heaven, but this is often seen as a rare accomplishment. Purgatory at least means you'll get to Heaven eventually and that you've avoided the fate of most, Hell. And, while being an unbeliever definitely (at least, traditionally) lands you in Hell, sincere believers also end up in Hell all the time. Any mortal sin (and these can be rather commonplace actions) will damn any believer.
The sad part then is that purgatory becomes the BEST one can hope for... imagine that you obeyed the rules and the judge still sends you to jail and you are happy that you didn't get prison?
@@maddhatter1219 Well, you don't go to Purgatory if "you obeyed all the rules." Purgatory implies that you broke some rules, even if these violations were too subtle for most people to notice. It's also not the "BEST" one hopes for, in the sense that it inevitably gets MUCH better when you get out. If one already believes we are all guilty enough to burn eternally, I'm not sure how it's sad in that context to imagine we might be able to limit that to a temporary penalty before we ship off to bask in the Beatific Vision.
To my catholic friends: If we've been born again, isn't God's law in our hearts/ minds? (Jeremiah 31, Romans 7, 8) Do we not seek to do His will? But sin is in our flesh and we struggle. "In my mind I'm a slave to Christ, but in my sinful nature a slave to sin." (Romans 7:25) Does our body of sin go to purgatory??? And haven't we also been crucified with Christ? "I've been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me." (Galatians 2:20) And also, we know that we have the righteousness of Christ applied to us, like Abraham, for he "believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." (Romans 4:3) How then do we go to purgatory- and for what?
"Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him, whose sins are covered." (Romans 4:7, 8. Psalm 32)
edit* ps. I just learned that the catholic church do not believe Christ's righteousness is imputed to Believers. So, it nullifies one of my sentences here, I guess. May I suggest you disregard them and read Romans and see for yourselves. It couldn't be more clear. Whom will you believe?
Since this comment section will soon have lots of nonsense assertions, here's one more: Martin Luther and Michael Brown appeared at the foot of my bed playing Saxophones. 🎷 the must have made up and are friends now.
30:16 Dr. White calls out Kenneth Copeland
So if as a Catholic one can confess their sins, say a few hail Marys and receive absolution, then why can't they do the same in purgatory?
I dunno, I just know catholicism is antibiblical, it's not true Christianity, it's an apostate church. mouthpiece for Satan.
Don’t bother commenting if you have no understanding of the Catholic position. Proverbs 18:2 was written for people like you.
@@BreRMatt240 He asked a question. Why is the 2nd Commandment removed from catholicism? Why do catholics teach Mary wasn't born in sin as every single human in history from a womb, save Christ Himself? Why in all of Biblical history there's no accounts of creatures praying to other creatures, yet it's a staple of your faith tradition? Why after Jesus said "call no man father," your entire faith disregards this. Why would the leader of any legitimate Church of Christ let anyone call them holy father? Why would a Bible believer think any man or group was inerrant/infallible, save Christ alone?
Why does the Word make it so clear from cover to cover, that His Word is everything & man's tradition is nothing, then people inside the catholic faith are happy to completely disobey? Indulgences aren't Biblical, Christ hates His Father's House being turned into a den of thieves, so how foolish would one be to believe the true faith is the one who "sells salvation?"
I could go on in perpetuity, but refuting catholicism is as simple as refuting islam. Good luck ever putting a dent in someone who knows & loves The Word. God doesn't allow His true sheep to escape His hands. His true sheep hear His Voice, and it is Holy Scripture in which He speaks. Only those tossed about with every wind of doctrine would be so foolish as to put a single stock in so much antibiblical antiChristian false doctrine & the evil deceptive traditions of evil deceptive men?
I wouldn't answer my "comments" either, as I obviously haven't a clue on any catholic position. The pope is your papa, also he's your vicar of christ so he's your holy spirit, & yet he's also your mediator, he's your false trinity. Oh yea, how did the antibiblical teaching of celibacy for priests instead of marriage to one woman work out?
Nothing in this world's history has brought more reproach upon the Name of Christ than holEy roman catholicism, and that's a fact.
@@user-jp5di4ol7q 2,000 years of Church history disagrees with you. You should study it sometime. Start with Ignatius of Antioch.
@@user-jp5di4ol7q the fact that one of your gripes is the “call no man father” talking point shows you barely have any idea on how proper Biblical exegesis works. According to you, the Apostle Paul is condemned since he tells people to call him father in 1 Cor 4:15. Orrrrrrr…. Maybe you just have an elementary understanding of Christianity and need help reading the Bible and learning CONTEXT. Which is more likely? Also… John 8:56 where Jesus literally calls Abraham FATHER? Again, try *actually* studying the Bible and church history. Please. I’m not sure why you’re so content with being so misinformed and doing no research, but if you want to go one by one with your Catholicism gripes I’ll happily educate you. I take it back, Prov 18:2 was written for you. I’d be embraced to have such a naive understanding of Christianity, you’re doing God a disservice by spewing your non-researched opinions and doing nothing to understand.
Why Protestants reject purgatory comes from double imputation concept as taught by the Reformers. They taught that through faith alone we get Christ' righteousness imputed on us as external/alien righteousness while ALL our sins (past, present and EVEN FUTURE ones) are imputed/counted on Christ who was punished by God for those sins on the cross. We are counted/declared as righteous while we remain unrighteous. Christ was counted as sinner while He remained sinless. Under double imputation concept of the Reformers Catholic teaching on purgatory, penance, and indulgences add what Christ already did on the cross, violating solus Christus, one of the five sola's.
The first question: is double imputation scriptural? Eze. 18:20 says the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself and the wickedness of the Wicked shall be upon himself. This verse says that neither righteousness nor wickedness can be transferred from one person to another, which is what double imputation implies.
Catholics do believe in infusion of righteousness as Dr. White said in the video. Through infusion we are made righteous as Scripture says in Rom. 5:19 "through Him we are made righteous". According to Scripture we lose righteousness through sinning. Eze. 33:12-13 says: " righteous shall not be able to live by his righteousness when he sins. Though I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, yet if he trusts in his righteousness and does injustice, none of his righteous deeds shall be remembered, but in his injustice that he has done he shall die." This the scriptural reason why Catholics believe that our sins must be forgiven/washed away after repenting and why we believe in purgatory.
Scripture also says in 1 John 5:16-17 there area deadly (mortal) sins and non-deadly (venial) sins.
What we must do when we sin is stated in Eze. 33:14-16 (emphasis in capital is mine):
"Again, though I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' yet IF HE TURNS FROM HIS SIN AND DOES WHAT IS JUST AND RIGHT, if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has taken by robbery, and walks in the statutes of life, not doing injustice, HE SHALL SURELY LIVE; he shall not die. None of the sins that he has committed shall be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he shall surely live."
Based on the above verses Catholics believe that when we sin grace of God will move and enable us to turn from sin (repent) AND to do what is just and right, in order to be back to life (in righteous state in Catholic terminology). "Doing what is just and right" is known in Catholic teaching as temporal punishment, to which the concept penance and indulgences are based.
Scripture refers God as refiner’s fire and fuller’s soap (Mal. 3:2) - both have something to do with refining and cleansing. Zec. 13:8-9 says God put some into fire as one refines silver and test gold - the word purgatory is not mentioned but the concept is.
when you gonna publish your next book? ;)
@@vaekkriinhart4347 no plan to do it
If purgatory is a false doctrine because it doesn't meet the standard set by sola scriptura, doesn't that mean sola scriptura is also a false doctrine? Sola scriptura can't even meet the very standard it sets.
So you think there is a higher authority than God's own words? Sola Scriptura is the belief that the Bible is the only infallible source of authority. Where does the Bible ever suggest there's something higher or more authoritative than God's words?
@@Are_You_Sure_Bro I think God's word is very authoritative and also infallible. However, the doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like yourself, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. But the ironic thing about that is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the bible. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years.
At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the final authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority.
The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." And if they can't find enough people who interpret scripture in the way they feel it should be interpreted, they either find another church, or just go it alone and call themselves non-denominational.
The Catholic approach, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. The Catholic Church asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It calls its faithful to believe in the truth rather than "their truth."
Now, I'll let you decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset or a "what I ought to believe" mindset sounds more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
@@Are_You_Sure_Bro I think God's word is very authoritative and also infallible. However, the doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like yourself, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. But the ironic thing about that is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the bible. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years.
At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the supreme authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority. Scripture, in and of itself, does nothing without an intelligence to interpret it.
The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." They look for people who interpret scripture the way they think it should be interpreted and if they can't find a group that does, they just call themselves non-denominational.
Catholicism, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset. It asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It calls its faithful to reject "their truth" and submit themselves to the truth.
I'll let you decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset or a "what I ought to believe" mindset is more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
@@Are_You_Sure_Bro I think God's word is very authoritative and also infallible. However, the doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like yourself, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. But the ironic thing about that is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the bible. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years.
At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the final authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority. Scripture, in and of itself, will do nothing without an intelligence to try and decipher it.
The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." Some people with church hop until they feel like they found a church that interprets scripture the way they want it to be interpreted. If they can't, they just call themselves "non-denominational."
Catholicism, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset. It asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It encourages the individual to accept the truth rather than "their truth."
Now, I'll leave it up to you to decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset, or a "what I ought to believe" mindset seems more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
@@Are_You_Sure_Bro I think God's word is very authoritative and also infallible. However, the doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like yourself, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. But the ironic thing about that is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the bible. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years.
At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the final authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority. Scripture, in and of itself, will do nothing without an intelligence to try and decipher it.
The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." Some people with church hop until they feel like they found a church that interprets scripture the way they want it to be interpreted. If they can't, they just call themselves "non-denominational."
Catholicism, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset. It asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It encourages the individual to accept the truth rather than "their truth."
Now, I'll leave it up to you to decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset, or a "what I ought to believe" mindset seems more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
@Are_You_Sure_Bro For some reason my responses aren't posting. In response to your comment:
I think God's word is very authoritative and also infallible. However, the doctrine of sola scriptura is self-defeating because it can't even meet the very standard it tries to set. Proponents of sola scriptura, like yourself, would state that if something is not found in scripture, then it is a false doctrine. But the ironic thing about that is the concept of sola scriptura is found nowhere in the bible. In fact, the man-made doctrine of sola scriptura was unknown to Christianity for over 1,500 years.
At the end of the day, the doctrine of sola scriptura isn't actually about viewing scripture as the final authority, it's about the individual viewing their self-interpretation of scripture as the final authority. Scripture, in and of itself, will do nothing without an intelligence to try and decipher it.
The Protestant doctrine of sola scriptura encourages a "what I want to believe" mindset when approaching your faith. This is why we see so many different denominations and so many different beliefs within Protestantism. Everyone is just looking for "their truth." Some people with church hop until they feel like they found a church that interprets scripture the way they want it to be interpreted. If they can't, they just call themselves "non-denominational."
Catholicism, on the other hand, encourages a "what I ought to believe" mindset. It asks its faithful to have a submission of will and an ascent of faith. It encourages the individual to accept the truth rather than "their truth."
Now, I'll leave it up to you to decide if a "what I want to believe" mindset, or a "what I ought to believe" mindset seems more Christ-like, but I think you already know the answer.
34:00 It that great exchange secure? I mean, it is reversible? Or you are forever, thanks God with Christ?
As a Catholic, and former protestant… whats ironic is that Dr. White today would have to debate Calvin 🙊
Oh wow that's so interesting, no one knew that.
@@danielomitted1867 I guess that’s not an issue lol
Well, the reason that is not a dig as you presume it should be is because we do not hold to the inerrancy of Calvin.. or Luther for that matter.
@@jsmiles1991 I’m not sure if it’s a dig. It’s more just an interesting observation… a calvinist who must debate Calvin.. and so granted, you do not uphold to the inerrancy of Calvin but rather the scriptures themselves no? Calvin would say the same. And yet, we come back to my original point, White (a Calvinist) would have to debate Calvin today. Interesting indeed.
Rome would have to debate Thomas Aquinas on John 6:44. What's your point? Lol.
Sola Scriptura is not in the Bible either, interestingly.
Only scripture is God-breathed so it has the highest authority. "Do not go beyond what is written" (1 Cor 4:6). But why does it matter to a Catholic whether something is in the Bible or not? Catholic apologists tell us all of the time that Catholic beliefs don't have to be in the Bible. There's nothing about popes, nuns, a sacerdotal priesthood, holy water, rosaries, baptismal regeneration, baptising babies, novenas, last rites, indulgences, salvation by works, treasury of merits, Mary being sinless or going bodily into heaven, infallible men, having to maintain one's salvation, other mediators besides Christ, praying to anyone other than God, the church being its own authority, and so on, and so on....
@@Are_You_Sure_Bro You said: Only scripture is God-breathed
Response: Where does it say that in the Bible? 2 Tim 3:16 does not say "Only Scripture". You're changing the Bible. 2 Tim 3:16 says "All Scripture". But guess what? “All Scripture” does not and cannot mean “Only Scripture”. ALL potable water is good for your health, but not ONLY that (other things being fresh air, food etc). ALL polar bears are White, doesn't mean ONLY they are. Ironically, you are going "beyond what is written" (1 Cor 4:6).
Protestants still haven't figured out that 2 Tim 3:16-17 (theopneustos) does not teach "authority" but INNERRANCY! Btw, the Church is ALSO inerrant (1 Tim 3.15)!
Mr james white, you better read the book of the apostolic fathers first
So is tbe man priest in a box listening to your sins, selling them
Purgatory makes a mockery of Jesus sacrifice.
Purgatory is the Mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ ❤
@@CatholicCarnivoreHousewifeexplain how jail is merciful ?
@@maddhatter1219a temporal consequence is only & always merciful compared to an eternal one.
@@CatholicCarnivoreHousewife only if one believes in the insufficiency of the atonement. That Christ, as redeemer, failed.
@@maddhatter1219 Revelations 21:27 "Nothing impure can enter into Heaven". It's only because of the Redemptive work of Jesus Christ that Heaven's even open to any of us, but even still nothing impure can enter to Heaven.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of us, who've accepted Jesus's Redemption and are free of Mortal aka spiritually deadly Sin are not yet completely purified of their attachment, or tendency to fall in, to venial sin (1 John 5:16-17) for example, one might die still having an "addiction" to coffee or sugar, so they've not yet become completely detached to the things of this world 1 John 2:15-17.
That being the case either A. Or B. is true about those who've fully accepted the Redemptive work of Jesus who are not yet fully purified at the time of their passing:
A. they go through a purification process on their way to Heaven for all eternity
B. they go to Hell for all eternity
Catholics believe A, which is the mercy of God.
And so is the hellfire doctrine and the inherent immortality of the soul teaching.
Well, both doctrines are found in scripture, so not sure how you came to that conclusion. Please tell
@@ashleycockerham9125 Well a God of love wouldn’t torture someone for one thing. Plus the wages sin pays is….death.
Let me ask you this. If I was this nice guy who gave to charity, had picnics with my family, called my mother...but then there was this side of me who had a basement under my house where I tortured people...would you want to be my friend? If not, why not?
@@ashleycockerham9125hell is found in scripture. Where conditionalists disagree with ETC is the nature of eternal life. If you are interested watch any Chris Date debate on Conditional Immortality. There are Calvinists that believe this.
@@NickHawaiiyour understanding of scripture is wrong and your question has no place in this discussion
@@godswill2260 Sure it does. Because it’s related and just as false. Scripture tells us that God doesn’t desire any to be destroyed. (2 Peter 3:9) Jesus said 2 roads. One to life the other to where again?
We don’t have an inherent immortal soul. It dies. See Ezekiel 18:4.
coping from the Trent Horn L
James won that debatw
@@international.pineapple6286😂
@@international.pineapple6286 of course he did. Catholics removed the 2nd Commandment because after $, graven images & relics are the 2nd strongest foundation of Satan's mouthpiece in Rome. Thank God for reformation. He is not pleased with false worship, no Spirit & Truth. This won't post if I keep going lol praying to Mary & other creatures..Nothing has brought more reproach upon the Name of Christ than the holey woemen catlick church. Nothing.
How biased do you have to be to think Trent won either of his debates? Trent didn’t prove anything 😂 His arguments boiled down to “well it could, it doesn’t say, this guy said that, and so on.” Yawn.
@@KnightFelI think you’re watched the wrong debate. White has suffered huge L’s here and in previous debates with Horn, Akin and a classic with Pat Madrid.
Agent of Satan
😂😂 damage control from white continues. 3 Ls in a row
underrated comment. That last debate he had with Trent Horn was amazinggggg
Whatever helps you sleep at night little buddy! 😂😂😂 Trent was once again exposed. Can’t exegete passages and can’t show us a single thing outside of scripture that’s God breathed/inspired. So many claims, zero showing for it.
Purgatory is Scriptural. Martin Luther removed it from the Bible.
If you commit a mortal sin, there is no temporal punishment. You go straight to hell.
Although all your sins are forgiven, the soul is wounded and offended, and cannot enter heaven until the soul has been perfectly purified. The punishment in Purgatory is the temporary exclusion from God which the soul longs for.
Unfortunately the followers of Apologia are some of the most close minded Christians you can find. No discussion, no facts, they just repeat White’s/Durbin’s talking points and run any time you start to bring up church history
The Bible nowhere teaches such things. Christ's sacrifice is enough!
@@Yesica1993 Cant you read ? Luther REMOVED it from the Bible
@@aussierob7177 LOL! Says who? You?
Take your blasphemous nonsense elsewhere. Christ's sacrifice is ENOUGH! Cease your lies.
No, he did not. No one claims that.
The fact that this pagan polytheist has people sitting and listening to him is truly frightening
The Pope with his God and goddess? Yes.
Hell is just as much of a Catholic invention as purgatory
As a Calvinist you do not believe in hell?
You do realize that hell is actually in scripture right ?
Clearly, you have not read the Bible
Says who? You?
@@hogansnyder9217calvinists believe in hell. I doubt this guy would claim to be a Calvinist.