ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2022
- After three days in the backcountry I found myself deep in a snow covered canyon. Low on fuel, food and water I triggered my Garmin SOS system. This is what happened.
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I’m a helicopter hoist operator for search and rescue and NEVER would I or my fellow members EVER make remarks about the people we rescue and assist. Any unforeseen situation can happen to even the most experienced where assistance may be needed. It’s absolutely absurd of their lack of professionalism and arrogance. I’m sorry they plastered your story on FB. You did nothing wrong by hitting the SOS and asking for assistance given your situation. Best wishes to you and your adventures.
Can you weigh in on if you actually think that the location was inaccessible by helicopter? Based on the video, the weather looked fair, and as he said, the lake seemed like it would be a good rescue spot.
they idaho cops, lowest of the low bahha
Yeah this type of dumb bullshit behavior is going to get people killed because they aren't going to want to risk being rescued and will attempt to get out on their own instead.
@@DW94576 they probably never looked into how thick that ice gets . Or have a helicopter crew that can do a rescue without actually landing. I don’t work in the industry just my thoughts.
There obviously are situations in which the people who need rescue are at fault, because they were flat stupid, but still
-this isn't one of those situations
-rescue should still NOT bash people.
I'm Italian, rescue is free 100% of times, regardless of bad luck or plain debauchery, and we often talk about the fact people who need rescue because of poor choices, or stupid behaviour, should pay something. Going to someone's rescue is a risk, and if I was to expose rescuers to that risk, because I was out doing dumb stuff, I should be charged. If anything, it would deter people from acting stupid
Got rescued last week in Romania because it was dark and we had lost the trail. We were physically completely fine and the trail was 3 minutes away from us. The rescuers were so friendly and understanding and brought us down the trail whilst chatting with us.
Props to them even though i feel like we kind of deserved to be clowned on.
Glad you had a good experience.
Glad you were ok dude
I was rescued in romania about two years ago and had an even BETTER experience. Hiked all day through a super dangerous section, and by dusk was stopped by exhaustion and daylight. Had to camp out on a peak, luckily it was a pretty flat spot. By morning I realize it freezing rain and snowed all night, while the day before it was 50 and drizzled a little. Totally stopped in my tracks and both ways down are super steep covered in ice and I had no crampons. The rescue team came out and were so so nice, immediately offered me hot electrolyte water and food, extra clothes etc. we tied off to eachother, they got me down +4,500’ in hours, actually drove me to their home base in the middle of the Transfăgărășan highway, gave me food, beer, a place to sleep, hot shower, coffee and breakfast in the morning, and one of the rescuers actually dropped me at a city where I booked an air bnb on his way home that day. Nicest group of guys I’ve ever met and really thought me a thing about hospitality. Not surprised you got similar treatment! Really respect those guys and Gabriel thank you so much you shouldn’t have turned down my money! I hid it in his car and he chased me down and stuffed it into my pockets. Romania is my favorite European country I’ve been to, going back for sure but more prepared this time 😂
@@saintwaffle7 European SAR are a different beast. Not saying NA aren't good, but I've had better experience in Europe
Romanian “Salvamont” are good people, mountain people who love what they do.
I cannot believe their Facebook post is still up. The lack of professionalism, empathy and common sense from not only the offcers but the entire department is insane.
Cmon… bro had enough time/strength to set up his little camera (and go back and get it after the shot) after hitting SOS, he kinda needs to be made fun of.. dude’s in a supposed emergency and still prioritizing social media over survival
@@definitelyfunatpartieswhen though? there was only one shot like that and it was before he called for help
@@AlexSchemery He called for help before he reached the lake. But you see him walking past the camera several times on the lake, which means he staged the shots.
@@donbeckhamhe called sos not because he was hurt but because he was lost. Is documenting it some terrible thing + the only shots where he seemingly put the camera down are from before he called sos
@@ed9753 every shot on the lake is after he hit the button. and whether you're hurt or not, an emergency is still an emergency, you shouldn't be setting up shots to feed your social media addiction, unless you don't feel like you're in need of emergency assistance. He was scared and wanted out, FAIR ENOUGH, but let's not pretend he didn't lie to the rescuers when he said he was out of food just because he wanted them to go to him instead of having to walk to them WHEN HE HAD ENOUGH TIME PATIENCE AND STRENGTH to set up his little camera shots and go back for the camera after the shot was done. And he was out of fuel? C'mon, he's in a forest, there's WOOD, wood burns. And regarding the post, he wasn't doxxed anymore than he had already doxxed himself, they gave a name and location, and they didn't make fun of him for being close to the road, they just provided the location of the rescue, dude's just butthurt cause he's a fragile little snowflake and he himself thinks it's ridiculous he had to be rescued from that situation, with food, and enough strength to set up camera shots and he's projecting.
As someone who hiked off a mountain with a broken ankle for 5 hours and had more than one sticky situation along the way, I wish I’d swallowed my pride and called for help when we were at the top. By the time I realised things were dire we were in the canyon and with no phone signal. It was by far the scariest moment of my life.
On the other hand I wouldn't buy one of these things for $500 and pay $50 a month thereafter just for someone else to call the fucking sheriffs department and tell them to come look for me and talk shit on the way back. They can also charge you for the search and rescue operation at their discretion, which can be upwards of thousands of dollars. Really the only thing this is doing is connecting to the iridium satellites and getting your GPS location.
Maybe this situation wasn't "urgent" enough to actually dispatch a SAR team, as he had shelter, food water etc. I still wouldn't want the police department out there just to provide moral support.
Can you share the full story? How did you get yourself out?
@@klixtrio7760 He pulled out a jetpack from his backpack and flew home
@@PlasmaOnezoleo is $199. Monthly charge is $25. For me a small price to pay for peace of mind. I’m a solo hiker. 60. Good shape ,but not like when I was 40. .. 99.99% of rescuers would not make fun of who they rescued. This is what they signed up for. Recently there was a situation similar to this is western NC. The rescuers said they appreciated the training, as well as rescuing someone is a big snowstorm.
@@dajo2824yeah it’s because it was the Idaho police, those guys don’t care about much other than shootin their guns and beating their wives
Another former mountain rescue volunteer here. You absolutely did the right thing. They deputies that got to you were unprofessional. It shouldn’t matter what their personal thoughts on the matter were, they had a job AND they were paid for it, unlike the thousands of volunteers out there.
BTW, you can still eat those Mountain House (or whatever) meals without hydrating them. Calories are calories no mater how they taste.
The belief that all these amazingly well-trained rescue crews are available worldwide is naive. Garmin contacts the best local teams possible, but this should be a reality check for all. There are parts of the world where the local police or fire personnel are the best there is. Give these folks a break.
@@Learningthetruth7 you can forgive their lack of experience and training but not the way they behaved in person and on social media.
He wasn't in Peril. He wasn't hurt. Or immobile.
He made it very clear there was no emergency.
The police were spot on. It was less that 4 total hours it took them round trip to escort him out.. he was just freaked out. Afraid to even try. Fight or flight or freeze. He froze.
@@Learningthetruth7 if he was injured or immobile.. or in any actual emergency.. they would have had a helicopter there in short order. They didn't.. Because the situation didn't call for it.
And Garmin knew the insurance wouldn't cover the rescue.. because no emergency was present. It's not a free ride insurance because you don't feel like walking.. an actual emergency is necessary. And he made it VERY clear that there was no emergency. Not even a minor emergency.
I’m an officer of Arkansas search and rescue and this is probably the worst dispatcher and search and rescue team if I was rescuing you I would have sent a chopper and I am sorry for this bad team. I respect the hikers and backpackers and I am truly sorry and I hope that this doesn’t happen again when you said that they did not ask you if you where ok and then they posted that I am truly sorry. This story makes me so pissed!!! Please hit that SOS Button if you need it don’t be afraid.
How does one get lost in Arkansas?
I’ve found Arkansas is by far the best place to camp! I’m glad there are people like you keeping it that way!
The OHT !
If he'd build a fire and melt some water, it would have solved the problem. But who ever heard of doing that? This story is not one of an emergency, it is a story of missing the obvious. Literally, building a campfire would have solved the lack of water AND lack of fuel. And he could have made it back to his truck. The Deputies are woodsmen, and knew they were rescuing a spoiled child who was making big bucks (monetized video with 792K views) at public expense. Maybe they were professional enough not to say so. Probably, because we certainly would have heard about it.
❤
I was with my pregnant wife and got stuck in deep snow on a forest service road. We were lucky enough to get an emergency call out on a non working iPhone. The search and rescue said if we weren't sick or injured, they weren't coming out for us because they were already dispatched out earlier that day for another call. Darkness was falling and so were the temperatures. We were 11 miles from any major road and my wife was cold and scared, I was furious. A local man with a caterpillar tractor was contacted via emergency dispatch amd agreed to drive his 1937 caterpillar in to tow us out, he was NOT part of search and rescue and came with his granddaughter in the dark and cold to get us out. Moral of the story, NOT all search and rescue teams are capable or willing to rescue you...not all are equal in skill sets and there is NO one standard that they are held to. They are NOT all professionals and do NOT all act like professionals, even if they claim to be
That’s so scary! It seems it would be a good idea to research the search & rescue teams in the area you’re planning on making a tricky trek in as part of your preparation. Some remote areas might not be equipped for that.
Idaho… say no more. I spent 32 years in law enforcement and my entire adult life hiking & backpacking in the back country. You did absolutely nothing wrong. The sheriff’s deputies & department as a whole should a complete lack of professionalism & compassion. I keep my Garmin up to date and like you pay for all the available SOS services (I call it life insurance). This department is why citizens dislike law enforcement… thanks for sharing your story. Stay safe out there.
He deleted any comments that say this but some guy on a hiking forum sketches out his trail on a topographic map, and he was less than a mile from a road and the hill in-between him and it had an elevation of a hundred and some feet.
He very clearly did this as a publicity stunt for TH-cam clout. Also "no water to cook my dehydrated food" as if he is not surrounded by snow. Laughable.
Also, he kept asking for a helicopter over and over even though they said it wasn't nessicary, and he chose not to use guided directions because I kid you not it was a TH-cam trend to get helicopter rescues at the time. All the big outdoors TH-camrs were doing it.
@@bradthunderpants3283 source: your ass
@@bradthunderpants3283 he needed fuel to burn that snow and was running out...
@@firefly9838 He was in a forest presumably with a way to light the stove aka a way to start a fire. Totally fine that he felt he needed help and got it and a person should never be shamed for needing help but it does seem odd to me that he didn't just start a campfire.
Some helpful suggestions from someone who has made his share of blunders:
(1) Melt with water not snow. Don't stuff your container with snow as the video shows. Snow conducts poorly, making it hard to melt with a stove. Start with what water you have, adding a little snow at a time. As that snow melts, add more. Then the melting will go much faster.
(2) A study of death on Mt. Everest had interesting results. Almost all those who realized they were in trouble and turned back short of the summit survived. The deaths were from those who got in trouble but continued to the top. You were right to trigger that Garmin SOS before your situation turned desperate. The same is true with turning back. Turn back as soon as you sense trouble. No trip is worth dying.
(3) Practice preparatory situational awareness. If you're going to hike to a lake in winter, hike the route in summer. You will discover that mountain and steep slope in advance. As an alternative, use local knowledge. Talk to someone who knows that lake hike well. There are facts maps will not tell you.
This should be higher up
Excellent advice!!
Best reply yet. Thank you for the advice. Especially the snow melting tip, that was really cool.
you want to know the mountain before you go hiking the winter, that's a great advice!
This is going to sound dumb but whenever I hike I kinda feel a connection to the old pioneers and first settlers in the manner of travel. I kinda imagine what it would be like to make a 10 mile trip inland. One thing that stuck with me is that you never wanted to rush and tire yourself. Second was what you said. Know the route and be very careful in the winter. (I'd also avoid valleys and canyons due to the way cold air pools in them.
Hey Jon! I’m from Washington State not far from where this happened. A friend of mine and I were mountain biking when I took a spill and broke some ribs. My friend and I tried to get out together but I couldn’t go any further. We built me a fire and my friend rode down to find help as the sun set. Around 2am he arrived back to me with search and rescue shortly behind him and they were able to get me out on a rolling stretcher except after the fact they completely belittled my friend and I on a Facebook post just like yours as being “unprepared” and “unfamiliar with how dangerous the woods can be.” I imagine it’s an ego thing with them but it’s outrageous how the people we count on to help us in need are the same that will try to puff their chests for doing the bare minimum.
Dude that is fucked up. Which department exactly was that?
Kinda hard to be prepared for a broken rib. Accidents happen, at least you had fire making materials and knew how to make one.
Some people put on a badge & uniform and think their 💩 doesn't smell!
"Unprepared" for broken ribs on a bike trip? What were they expecting you to carry, a morphine drip, a sked and a team to carry you out?
Please, stay in waSHITington
I know this was posted a year ago, but I paused the video to go give them sh*t on the facebook posts, and was very happy to see the high number of people who already had. x
I'm heading there right now to do the same thing 😂
Where's it at?
@@thelastvigil111think it got deleted
@@thelastvigil111still up
They blocked all new comments
Man I felt your alienation when you choked up. I got myself stuck on a trail in a white out at night in deep snow. It was my first year hiking in the snow and I had very little equipment. It was my first day out with snow shoes and I just brought a head lamp. My gas burner got covered in ice so I ran out of water. I had no tent and my zip failed on my jacket. I covered 30km with no treking poles in deep snow. As I crested the last peak 5km from the car, I lost the trail. I stopped for 1 minute to gather my thoughts and my body temperature plummeted in the howling wind and constant heavy snow fall as I was already way beyond exhaustion. I was in a really bad situation only 5km from my car. I found reception on the open mountain top and did one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, ask for help. I called my sick elderly father and he called the police who organised a search party from the nearest ski village. I was so cold and weak I lay down in the snow and I just shut down. I don't know why but at some point I woke just enough to realise what was happening so I stood up and marched on the spot till 2am when help arrived. It took me a good few days to recover. It was the worst storm in memory in that area and it took a day for rescue to cut through nearly 40 trees down over the mountain road so we could drive out. The idea of being humiliated at the point of rescue, man I felt that when you choked up. I could tell the 2 guys that hiked in to me would rather be back at the ski lodge 20km away but they certainly didn't put me down. Funny thing is they lost their water bottle on the way to me so I had to plow on till 6am almost collapsing at one stage. A trivial tail I'm sure for someone who's grown up in Alaska or Canada. I live on the beach in Australia. I carry a Garmin now but I'll be funked if I'm going to allow that to happen again.
Sorry for the bad situation you were in :(
People often don't understand how scary deep snow can be. You take regular hiking risks and then you add in the variability with snow conditions and things like tree wells that'll outright kill you. Hikers in my area often go out on the snow in hiking shoes and get stranded with a little warming because the trail no longer supports them.
Even when properly equipped, there could be problems. I could hit 7 miles out and 7 miles back on skis on a good day. On a bad day with very heavy snowfall, going 400 yards is a monumental effort and seems like it eats energy. This uncertainty makes me very cautious because I can easily imagine a situation where the only thing I can do is call for help and dig an emergency shelter.
Scary story, glad they found you.
I’m Alaskan and for sure that is no trivial thing! It is so so easy to get into a dangerous situation. And we go through survival training in elementary school. Number 1 is stay put and make a form of sos.
As someone who works with SAR sometimes, this is pretty unusual. It's not completely unreasonable to ask you to move a short distance with a plan and with tracking, but any competent team would have sent people down that trail immediately so you could know where it was. And they would have offered far more than just a clif bar. Additionally, while other agencies often post their stories, this is the first one I've ever heard of to actually identify their patient. Idaho County seems like inexperienced amateurs, which is very surprising given their location.
Legitimately, I think it’s all of Idaho. I used to work in a call center coordinating between doctors and patients, with most of our clients in another state. Idaho calls were, no joke, the worst. The doctors were incompetent, the patients were stupid, fair mix of rudeness thrown in for good measure. I’m not exaggerating either, out of dozens of calls (about 70), -one- was pleasant. It was so unusual for what we called “202 calls” I remember it distinctly and it’s been about 7 years since. I had to ask the nice, competent lady if she was originally from Idaho…she wasn’t. XD The entire state is in my black book.
I agree that it is crazy unprofessional that they posted photos of him and posted his name and occupation
This dipshit had everything he needed to get himself out of the situation. He pressed the sos button for TH-cam views. This is no different than the pilot who ditched his airplane and parachuted out for views. At least in that case, the FAA nailed his ass. Nothing will likely happen with this one unfortunately.
@@brookerobb4960I would agree
Just a few thoughts from someone who often pushes the "helicopter button"--
We have specific criteria for when a ~$40,000 button should be pushed.
We also have the occasional person who seems to want a joy-ride. And this is why the helicopter people always call the grunts on the ground (ICSO, in this case) to ask if a call from a private individual actually warrants the allocation of resources. If Law Enforcement is in doubt regarding medical conditions, EMS makes the decision--which is the case almost every time.
In this case, ICSO quickly determined that there was a cheaper (although less-glamorous) way to get the job done WITHOUT putting the subject in significant danger. This was superbly professional. Maybe they should have carried him out in a feather bed.
The subject mentions his LifeFlight membership. Just in case he didn't read the policy, since he was not medically requiring transport, he would be liable for the entire bill.
Also, LifeFlight is probably not the proper service to use for that particular rescue operation. There are other resources that work with LE/SAR/EMS, that have superior technical abilities for mountain rescue. If life was in danger, these resources would probably have been activated.
Evidently, the "victim" didn't place much value on public resources. As we saw, there was plenty of daylight to get out to the vehicles, and the Deputies knew it. Inviting them to spend the night on the lake (if they had brought full camp gear on a 1-2 mile hike) would have been fine drama, great for TH-cam, but not for the County. It would have cost the taxpayers an extra grand or more, and would have left a significant portion of the County with delayed response to real, life-threatening emergencies.
In EMS, we are bound by HIPAA. But in this case, the Deputies were not medical personnel, and are under a different set of rules. The subject was not a "patient."
As I pointed out elsewhere, he needed to build a fire, or chop a hole in the ice. That would have solved the whole emergency.
I'm not qualified to chime in on the drama but as someone who spends most of my year alone in the mountains, I feel I can offer a piece of advice: When going out solo (or in a group, really), make sure you can undo anything you do (unless you're certain there is a doable alternative). In this case, by committing to going down the slope that you were unable to climb up, you were rolling the dice that the unknown would work out for you. By recognizing this gamble at the top of the slope and accepting that the final destination is the car and not the lakes, you might have turned around. Also remember that turning around is never the wrong call since the mountains don't care about ego. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Agreed I think this was irresponsible.
..pretty much MY thought. THOSE conditions..the decision in HUGE elevation change, LIMITED water/gas, etc. Numerous decisions in play ALL the time. STILL, those “officers”, inexperienced in SAR were morons for treating him poorly. Looks as though they ‘pigeon-holed’ Jonathon as being inept/incompetent BEFORE KNOWING the whole story. The bright side Jonathon? NO ‘SAR’ HELO FEE! Most people don’t like PAYING the ‘LifeFlight’/ambulance bill when they receive it, I imagine the same for a SAR helo!
Also bring poles.
I recently read similar advice for 4-wheeling in Yuma, AZ. Apparently tourists often come in, go into 4x4 mode, get stuck, and then they're screwed out there, with a number of such tourists dying. Locals know that it's better to go in 2-wheel drive, then if you get stuck, *then* you can pop it into 4x4 to get unstuck, then turn around and leave!!
"...the mountains don't care about ego."....So true. Love it!
I’m a 17 year Search and Rescue member in the mountains of British Columbia. After listening to this recount of events, I feel very sorry for the subject. He got in way over his head. He made several mistakes, the biggest is going solo, in winter into an are where you aren’t familiar.
However, SAR teams respond no matter what. They do use an “ Urgency” scale. Because he was fit, young, not injured, had shelter, equipment, food, access to water and wood for fire, his “Urgency” rating would be low. Not zero. He’d still get rescued but resources and $$wont be thrown at it. In Canada all SAR members are volunteers. They miss work, wages, put their lives at risk with every rescue. They are honoured to do it, but difficult decisions on how a rescue will be preformed isn’t always easy. Still there’s no excuse for these Officers to publicly ridicule you!
This wasn’t SAR, it was uniformed Police, Public servants. It doesn’t matter what this dude did to get into the situation, they are there to help. You are right, Garmin, or PD, will only send the resources you need. He was low priority so they sent an “escort”. As a third party looking in, it appears he was mostly scared and maybe not truly lost. He needed reassurance and direction. No shame in that, that’s what those officers are there for. They were just upset at what they thought the situation was, and shame on them for posting about it. That should have been taken down the moment people shamed the victim.
Agree, but young and fit don't matter for much in the cold where the situation could change rapidly. As soon as he lost the ability to even heat water, he was in serious trouble and he had already cut his caloric input two days before.
The fact they didn't even show up with two person snowmobile or a sled in case his condition was worse than expected highlights that the responding officers were likewise unprepared.
All he had to do was say I sprained my ankle and I can’t move and they would have come gotten him right?
He should never have lost the ability to heat water. He didn’t bring a lighter, storm proof matches, ferro rod? Nothing? No redundancy? If that is the case he had zero business being out there alone, winter or not.
@@davidked yeah relying on gas alone, with no backup in back country, poor planning at best.
I was once on a hiking trip with some buddies up by the Canadian border of Minnesota and one of the guys hurt his knee. I had an extremely similar experience. I pressed the SOS button and got in contact with the local sheriff's office that told us to hike the two days back. When I reminded them that one of us couldn't walk and that we could make our way down to a lake where they could meet us on a boat, they informed me that they had no boats to use. When I got them to borrow a fisherman's boat and came to get us, they informed us that they would only take the injured hiker and the rest of us would have to walk the two days back. I ended up paying the fisherman to come back and pick us up but boy was I pissed.
BEST FOOD for survival is CANDY, TRAIL MIX, BEEF JERKY.....no water required, no heating required, already mostly dry(or liquid weight is OIL that you want in survival food)....always pack CANDY. There is a reason your body craves this stuff so much, Its a godsend full of energy. 2000 calories of gummy worms is 600g.
Yes it weighs a little more than de-hydrated food packets. But not having to rely on a fire or fuel to eat it is worth its weight. Just don't snack on it if you don't need to, lol.
Over where I live, there was a man that ended up dead, and was only about a mile away from the trail. Good call on hitting the SOS button. The responders were obviously unprepared and untrained on various levels, including professionalism.
Yes. I am on SAR in my county and deaths occur so close to trails because people get lost so easily when they are disoriented. They suffer from exposure and die.
i live right off the Appalachian trail and there was a story about a woman who got lost but never called the sos or her family for help because she figured she would find her way eventually. she wrote in her diary how she got so weak from waiting and running out of food... she was less than a half mile from the trail. stories like this where the police shamed him, will make people feel silly for asking for help...
I've listened to your report with attention. As a mountain guide, climber and lifelong explorer, I can speak to a few points that you've mentioned:
1. First and foremost, I command you on not only the quality of your report, but also the humility in describing in details your shortcomings and how you got yourself in this situation. This brought back memories of my first winter expeditions and the lessons they bring.
2. You clearly mention the mistakes that every one should avoid when going on winter trips in deep snow,. The first one for me is going alone, especially when inexperienced in these conditions. You should always have a partner especially if it's still your second time. You then mention a 8oz fuel canister, which is clearly not enough for melting snow over four days. Whether permitting, one can switch fuel for a good ol' fire, but you don't mention whether firewood is available in your area (something that can easily be spotted on satellite images prior to leaving) so I assume that wasn't an option.
Finally, you clearly state that you are taken aback by the deep snow and the exertion is causes on your bodily energy. Snow tends to accumulate in greater quantities in valleys and canyons at lower elevation (in your case, 6000-7500 ft) and can make for a challenging walk, even on flat ground. Your final mistake is you should have tested yourself on a day-hike prior to attempting a 4-day trip.
3. You were lucky the weather stayed nice the whole time :)
4. Finally, as others have said, I'm not sure what to make of this whole Idaho County Police situation other that they seem to be bullying the heck out of you. Their actions sound borderline illegal, especially the social media bashing. I'm no legal expert but a publicly funded institution (aka police department) bullying and making fun of a private citizen while providing private information on their social media channel does not sound right...I would consult a competent attorney in your case.
Good luck and keep making great content.
Sam
They are not a SAR team plus you are in Idaho. Testosterone gets worse when these me have to leave a warm bed. They knew they had to follow thru with call.
In California we have so many people die with years of experience of hiking going alone. We have Death Vally , the Sierras, Joshua Tree, we have thousands of abandoned mines. Some are never seen again.
To me hiking or backpacking should follow the same rules as SCUBA diving buddy up.
I am glad you are safe
Check out the China Lake Postings on rescues.
Maybe you can join a team who actually instructs like China Lake.
Thanks for sharing, staying humble, and remaining polite in the face of ignorance.
Really good summary of what could have been deadly situation. I would never be in your snow shoes, but I do have a Garmin for hiking alone and I learned a lot about how it would works. As a women …they never would have done the same treatment but only bragged about how amazing their rescue was!
@@karinjones4380 lol that's a good point
"You were lucky the weather stayed nice the whole time" ... holy crap. You are absolutely correct. This could have gone much, much worse.
FYI, dehydrated food only needs water to rehydrate and can be eaten cold, heating is a luxury not a necessity.
First, props to you for being vulnerable and sharing your story; there is a lot of food for thought here. Secondly, as someone who is an avid backpacker and back-country skier, winter travel is not the same as backpacking in the snow; this video and the OP's experience really illustrates this. Lastly, Dan Becker, another You Tuber got himself into a somewhat similar pickle by naively (my judgement) thinking he was going backpacking in the snow in the Grand Canyon. Again, they are two birds of a different feather.
I was an EMT, volunteer Firefighter and worked with my local search and rescue team, and an avid outdoorsman. How they treated you was completely uncalled for, if you were hurt what would they have done. We don't go out with the assumption that we would be spending the night, and will hike out even in the dark, but if you hadn't eaten really in 2 to 3 days it would be much harder a hike and I would be helping you any chance I can get to get up the hill. And never make negative comments about you. You seem well prepared and stronger than me, I hate snow camping, so that's amazing you can do that, but not for everyone
They didn’t treat him like that until he refused to make an effort to come out on his own. Then when they got there he had food after he told them he was out. I’d be pissed if I were them. He clearly wasn’t injured, this dude thought he was was stuck in the alps, when he was backyard camping. He didn’t need to be rescued, he needed to walk tf out of the woods.
Omg Unknown are you posting again????? Jesus Christ. You know someone with the handle unknown unknown knows what the hell they're talking about. Hey unknown what's my name? Yep you knew it when you read it. Again, what's my name? You know how this story ends? No one knows yours.
@@JonConti id bet anything he knows someone in that sheriffs dept.
@@unknownunknown-us5ml obviously you don't know what you're talking about. read some books.
@@picklesdill9138 "read some books" that's ironic, because you're incorrect..
This is not a knock on good cops,I have family & friends that are cops, but 28 years working with them (as a firefighter) I can say I witnessed that attitude over and over and over and over... The way you described how you were spoken to and treated I would witness on a regular basis. It starts at the top, and it is a "cultural" thing that desperately needs to change. That's one IVORY TOWER with lot's of power. Thank you for sharing your story, I learned a lot from it.
Yes
Well said and I agree entirely. One more point, had the county sheriff assigned deputies to be trained in SAR and sent them to work with the volunteer teams in the region, there would be far superior officers to call upon. I've see that, deputy assigned to SAR, gets to know the volunteers, attends all the trainings and goes out on missions. Sheriff saves big time on the budget because volunteers are doing all the heavy hours. When the TV crews do come out to the trailhead there's an experienced deputy with serious SAR cred to do the PR work. Works great when the Sheriff at the top will allow it to work.
There is no good apple in a basket of rotten ones. You throw them all away.
Definitely the difference between police/sheriff's deputies, and trained volunteer rescue workers. Police/deputies don't have any desire to save lives. The most they want to do is enforce laws to turn a profit, and do it in the lowest exertion methods possible.
It's also why volunteer firefighters and police typically don't have the best of relationships with each other.
1000x yes.
I'm so pleased your good friend was switched on enough to give you great advice and that you had enough kit to keep yourself alive. Try not to let the negative aspects get to you though, no doubt this experience was a valuable one!
Thanks for this story, and sorry this happened to you. I was a previous search and rescue volunteer, and it really opened my mind. When you said you asked if they had any search and rescue experience, I already knew the answer before you provided it. And agree with the others here who say you did the right thing. Don't beat yourself up about it, you were unlucky with your response team, but at least they showed up and you made it out the wiser.
Clarification for many commenting, since the video wasn't real clear on it, when you hit the SOS button, it goes to a national emergency center. They pass the emergency on to the local jurisdiction. Garmin did their part for what this man paid them to do. Everything after that was between him and Idaho County.
100% not Garmin fault! The sheriff's department there sounds absolutely atrocious
no, there should be a way to get connected with someone else. they would’ve let him die.
Yeah Garmin did a great job. The mentally deficient police response on the other hand, just comes with the job. Cops aren't hired for their empathy and high IQ
Who is the person on the Garmin then telling him he has to get out on his own own?
@@lindanwfirefighter4973 Once Garmin contacts the local jurisdiction, they also provide that entity with the garmin user's contact, so that the 2 can message directly vs using Garmin as a go between. So it would most likely have been Idaho County personnel.
Dude as a first responder and medic I'll be first to say im absolutely blown away by the lack of professionalism of the Idaho county sheriff department . Irregardless of they're feelings about your situation it was an emergency to you but to publicly shame you for being in a bad spot is on so many ridiculous levels of bad taste. As a fellow outdoorsman who has a in reach for that exact purpose for rescue if I get in a shitty situation while hunting I feel your pain . Sorry that happened to you man and shame on you Idaho county sheriff
Thank you Kodie. Means alot from a first responder ✌
Same here! TERRIBLE display and lack of professionalism/ compassion by the "Rescue Team"
@@WagJesTerI3 "rescue team" missed their break and were pissed. What an unprofessional and lazy couple of .... now don't be mean.... fellows.
Its disgusting that they took the time to take a selfie and blast it on FB
Idaho in general is so fucked lmao
I think this video, especially the summary at the end, confuses Garmin with the local agency who performed the rescue. You pay your Garmin Subscription in order to enable your device to connect to a local rescuing agency. In this case, it did that well, but the local agency did a shitty job performing the rescue. There is nothing Garmin can do about that.
True but it is still important to know if you thinking about getting that subscription. The result at the end is what makes a product, so here the product failed to deliver and even if they can't do anything about it, it still makes it a worse product.
the product delivered perfectly. He was put in touch with authorities and rescued, sure they didnt give him a five course meal and a hug but i dont think garmin advertises that.@@demp11
@@demp11 I think the nuance is difficult to convey in Garmin's marketing message. It's really not much different than say your choice of cell phone or cell phone carrier. A $20 flip phone gets you the same emergency response as a $999 smart phone. It's all dependent on where you are when you need emergency services and the quality of the responding organization.
I'm so sorry to hear about your bad experience with those officers. That was really rude of them, and regardless if it was your own fault or, not. They still didn't need to treat you in that manner. They are to serve our communities, and that's why we hold them to a higher standard. That makes me so angry that they treated you that way. Well, in the future I hope that you will have much better luck with anyone that may have to come to your rescue. You seem like a really nice guy, and again, I'm so sorry about this inconvenience. God bless you my dear.
As someone who lives in idaho and backpacks all around including this exact location you were at, I’m so unbelievably disparaged by what happened. Makes me scared to even use my SOS. I’m so sorry man.
Never be scared to use your sos system, it's better to have some jack offs be rude to you than to be a popsicle frozen in the middle of nowhere.
Yeah its not a good kind of message to send to the public. Please never doubt pressing that button if your in strife, im certain this was the 1 in 10000 bad interaction/rescue!
This guy seemed very level headed and that hitting the sos button when he had some options and before he was completely unable to assist in his own rescue was smart and kept others out of harms way. Don't know what policeys or training was lacking that made the police so insensitive to him but with the way he put this video together hopefully some policy or training can come from this event but egos will have to step aside for that. A good cheif is who can see thru egos and make that happen I hope yall elected or have one in place that can learn and improve from this.
That is my exact reaction. Rescue has produced fear in many of us, but maybe the cops are happy about that.
They basically said meet us over here and we will hike out with you
People have defended you on the idaho’s police page! It was not in vain! Im glad you told ur story and I am glad you called for help when you needed it!
Never pack “only” dehydrated food as your only energy source. It’s great as a weight saver sure but it’s also a death sentence. You need 2 resources just to make it, it’s asking for a problem.
In many wilderness situations, some amount of self-rescue is often necessary. But the mindset of the individual needing rescue is key, and a big part of the rescuers’ job is to offer psychological first aid. I’ve seen firsthand how having empathy and positivity as a rescuer can help even an injured person get in the right mindset to help themselves out of a bad situation.
I'm a Firefighter and apart of a search and rescue team and I just want to say I'm sorry man this was crappy of them to do. Please accept my apologies on behalf of all search and rescue teams who actually give a dam about what we do. Never hesitate to call for help Id rather it be a search and spend the night out in the desert, woods, snow don't matter.. Rather than you get hurt or worse because your scared to ask for help. were just a button press away.
Every year there are stories about people getting lost and later found dead within sight of a trail. Many in much better weather. Could you have done things better? Sure. Could the rescuers have done a better job? Absolutely. You're safe and that is what matters. You learned something and by sharing you probably have helped others.
Agreed!
I agree he did the right thing and he knows it, and he's here to speak with us about it, instead of being a casualty
Im truly so sorry the people who are supposed to be helping treated you this way. That is wrong! Im glad that you made it out and are sharing your experience.
To be totally real, the only thing any of those officials were thinking at the time was “who’s going to pay for that helicopter bro wtf”
I am shocked. As a SAR volunteer with over 200 field missions, this is not how things should have turned out for you. On behalf of all Search and Rescue organizations, I offer sincere apologies. We are trained to be better than this. It is risky to go into the field and help others, but we do it with dignity and pride. Thanks for this video. The SAR motto is " so others may live." Please know you can always call for help.
I think the biggest issue is these guys aren't real SAR. Their cliff bar and no water and other things lead me to believe they have NO training at all.
Thanks for sharing, you're rad
Amen! Thank you for doing what you are doing, im happy there are people like you doing what others wouldnt even think about!
Spent years associated with Fire Rescue and never in my life had I heard such unprofessional attitudes
Those 2 officers should be brought in front of a disciplinary board. Clearly they need to find new careers.
Didn’t sound like they where sar they just police put on a task they didn’t want. Not an excuse but they probably have very minimal training in this area. I would bet they can’t even tie any basic knots or have any knowledge in land navigation.
Sorry this happened to you. I'm a volunteer SAR member in Arizona. In most of the U.S. the county sheriff is responsible for search and rescue. We never publish a person's information without permission. We treat it more like a medical call and protect your privacy.
In general when you push the SOS button Garmin will contact the sheriff of the county where the distress call originates. We have 6 specially trained SAR deputies. They will assess the situation and decided what resources are needed. Those resources can and often included, volunteer rescuers, helicopters, medical, or canine. From what you said the officers you dealt with did not have SAR training. I'm sure that was the reason for your bad experience. For a regular person looking at a map without backcountry experience a mile or two looks like it should be a cake walk.
Generally when we arrive on scene we are going to assess the scene, assess the patient and develop a plan to get you out. Assuming you're not in a medical emergency, we're going to offer you, food, water and warm clothing. We've had plenty of rescues within a mile of the trailhead. We never make a person feel bad about requesting rescue. We use it as an opportunity to give advice or share best practices.
You seem like a knowledgeable and well prepared hiker. As we all know it only takes one mistake or bad luck in the backcountry. It could happen to any of us. Don't beat yourself up over it. If you search my name on youtube I've uploaded one or two of our rescues that you might find interesting.
some more info (and confirmations that what Juan said is spot on!):
SAR TEAMS (Search And Rescue)
They are not the same depending on where you are. Some are a permanent team from the police, firemen, etc.. Some are volunteer organizations, etc.. it can also be the Air force, land troops, Coast Guards, etc. What I see here is that this Sherrif office has poor SAR training.
LOCATION
They asked if there were any trails close to Jonathan to rescue him via snowmobile/machine. This, even with Garmin giving the exact GPS location! That person could have checked on Google Maps and also on any other apps or websites with the local trails. This tells me that they are highly UNprepared and certainly not ready for the "golden hour".
STAY PUT
Jonathan says that you shouldn't move, and it's the rescue that comes to you. True. HOWEVER, he told them that he could move to a better location for rescue. So the fault is 50/50 here. Still, the person should have told him to stay put and only move if absolutely necessary.
COORDINATES
The sheriff's office asked if he needed the coordinates. You do not ask, you simply give it to make sure it's OK.
ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS
"There are no other alternative options, there is no helicopter that will come pick you up". That's a bold lie. They certainly have access to a helicopter and worst case, they can hire a private one. Also, Jonathan was at a lake, so they could have sent an airplane if the lake allows for it. The reason why dispatch sent this is that many people hit the SOS button when they could make it without it. And also because they wanted to save money (no comment here...)
"They can't tell where the lake is" YEAH RIGHT! Plain lie there and it's criminally irresponsible. They have Jonathan's GPS coordinates! And I highly doubt he/she even asked and helicopter pilot anyways. And if he/she did, then people there are really dumb and the worst redneck is a genius compared to them.
GETTING HELP
There are several organizations all over USA and Canada offering rescue and you pay monthly, or yearly fee. It's worth checking them.
YOUR LIMIT
"you know your body, you know your limit". I have to disagree here and there's a rule for that, the 40% rule. When you think you're over, you're just at 40% of your body limit. Your mind can go both ways, either to make you believe you're done or to push you beyond your actual body limit.
FUEL MANAGEMENT
100% Jonathan mismanagement here. When in a survival situation, THE most important is how you manage all of your resources. Where was Jonathan??? In the wilderness, right? So you start a fire using wood and keep your fuel at all costs. That's why it's important to learn how to make a fire quickly in the winter... and have the proper gear for that: Ferro rod, matches, and firestarter.
STUPIDITY
"Hey can you make it up here" "well, if you want to make out of here"
That's plain stupid, the guy texted that he was out of food and SCARED. they should have walked to him with a big smile and said something like "Hey, can we join you?" Then offer him something to drink and eat so he gets some energy for the way back.
FOOD
It was wrong to say that you're out of food. ** Dehydrated doesn't mean that you can't eat it ****. You can complain, but it's still your fault, this food could have been eaten. However, when in stress, some people can't think straight. Also, some people have a tendency not to make all the necessary efforts. GOOD SARs knows that and deals with that.
The bottom line: The Sherrif could have done much much better. Same for Jonathan. My opinion is that the Sherrif's staff is highly UNprofessional.
P.S. publishing the name, occupation, and mocking Jonathan.... lawsuit?
Well said. You describe the spirit of Volunteer SAR quite well. Also, the ideal of trained SAR deputy handling the legal requirement and mandate, but volunteers doing the people-power. Saves the taxpayers an incredible amount of deputy-payroll and delivers a professional response every time.
Hi Juan, you took the words out of my mouth. I'm on the Pima County, AZ SAR team (Southern Arizona Rescue Assn). What team are you on?
@@DiabloOutdoors very very good breakdown. And yes, I think a case could be made to an attorney. Otherwise, this practice will stay normalized for this sheriff’s department. I’m no SAR expert, nor do I do any hiking like this, but Conti was definitely in a situation where he felt extremely uncomfortable and he felt he was unable to make it out of the canyon. It’s a little ridiculous that the department treated him like a nuisance instead of a person in distress. What if the person in distress was downplaying their condition and it was much worse? If something bad happened to him, would it be negligence on behalf of the sheriff’s office?
All I’m really saying is that at the very least this department needs better procedures and training for persons in distress, wether they’re able to make it out by themselves or not.
@@DiabloOutdoors agree about the helicopter. We don't have a helicopter in our county, but every search I have been involved either the CHP or the Navy provides this for us. Sometimes both.
I think that the fact that you kept your wits about you and stood up for yourself in the face of horrific S&R advice is admirable. Knowing not to wander, staying close to your safe sources of water, giving good landmarks, scouting the areas, knowing your hours of daylight - everything they did lacked scope in the face of you trying to manage your circumstances as best as possible. I don't think I'd have the spine to push back at a cop telling me to wander up the mountain. Your choices kept you safe, made it so that they could find you and that you weren't in a more dire position. I think you handled this and the social media doxxing so incredibly well.
Thank you for sharing this story. I am a member of Taos Search and Rescue in NM, and from county to county and state to state, there is a huge difference in a lot of places between actual trained SAR people (Actual SAR teams) to SAR-ignorance that you had to experience. Sorry you went through this with people who had no idea what they were doing. Glad you made it out safely. You obviously have a lot of good common sense combined with backwoods experience which is great.
I will so chime in here! Thank you for hitting the SOS button! As a mom, wife, hiker and a former medic, you did the right thing! They were jerks to call you out! I apologize for the behavior of these officers! You did the right thing! I have been the medic on the end of the patient care line of people who don’t call for help or wait too long, it’s not pretty. Gosh bless you and sooo happy you are safe!!
Meant to say God bless you! You are a smart guy and did the right thing!!
Maybe some who didn't make itdidnt wait too long.. maybe they refused to go get them like these officers originally did. Asking him to walk 2 Mike's more when he called for help. Many are not in as good of health as thus man. Not many would have been able to make it as far as he did. This man basically saved his own life since officer dumb and dumber brought no way to remove any body...HE held on for dear life and was put at risk of falling off the snowmobile... Thankfully he lived to caution others ❤️
The officers should have piggybacked on one and let him drive out on the other. Why put him at risk????? Weren't they sent to rescue a body?????? He could have gotten injured or collapsed during the 2 Mile hike.. the idiots were more concerned for their own safety.
I was winter SOR in Yosemite Valley for a few years. Most of the rescues involved helping someone(s) who had not planned and was ill prepared for the situation. Regardless we always tried to appreciate their needs and get them home safe. Sounds like the county needs to review their rescue efforts and build a team that loves to rescue those lost in the mountains. Sorry to see this happen. Good to see you get out. I only saw the one mistake on your part and that was fuel. great job.
Glad you made it out! You did everything right man!
Imagine how differently they would have acted had it been an off duty police officer who went hiking like that and got lost. Exact same circumstances. Polar opposite reaction.
They would have called out the cavalry.
A woman died a half mile off the AT a few years back. She was a thru hiker who had left the trail for a bathroom break and got disoriented. She communicated to her husband she was lost before she lost service. Search and rescue were dispatched stat and spent weeks if not months trying to find her. She was found some months if not years later by someone who spotted her tent. Kudos for you for being able to work through the decision-making process in less-than-ideal conditions to save yourself. What stands out the most to me is that the ICSO missed an opportunity to pat themselves on the back for a job well done and instead took the low road that is all too often taken these days.
The hero here would be you! Job well done.
On a side note, so many people get lost on bathroom trips. Major reason for everyone to carry whistles. And when you know you have gone wrong, stay put and blow the whistle. Main group should hold base where you were last seen and others work out and back from there.
I heard about that story.
The really crazy part of it was that she wasn't far away from the trail.
She basically vent around in circles like one do when lost. Very sad
Always have a compass with you.
Are you referring to Inchworm? Just asking because it’s the same scenario about a hiker for in Maine a few years ago
Months... if not years.... get outta here
RIP Inchworm . That was a tragic situation , I carry surveyor tape for when I go off trial .
Damn man, our SAR team would have made you hot chocolate as soon as we arrived. Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience! Please don't judge all rescue response units by their actions.
I think his point was that it was clear they are not SAR trained and he even mentioned asking them if they were SAR trained (which they were not)
My brother was 24 I was 13 when we went hiking/ camping on a mountain lake. We set up base at the lake, there were 1 or 2 more groups of people there. there was a summit we wanted to hike up to that day, and even tho we were a bit late in our timetable, we went for it. We climbed up just fine, but the way down was slower, and we got cauht by the night. Luckily we had a big strong flashlight, I had it on a strap over my shoulders and held it in my hand. At one point I let it dangle because I had to hold on to a wall with both hands, the velcro around the grip tore open (or the stitching), and the light tumbled down the mountain, quite spectacularly in the night. That happened just above the treeline, so it was visible from the lake. We continued on with 2 candles in our hands, trying to see the trail markings. Hours later we finaly made it out of the forrest above the lake, and that is where a big group of hikers came our way. Someone saw our light fall, and feared the worst, but they must have also seen the candle light. A few experienced people organized to come our way, but in the time it took them to organize and pack for a possible emergency, we made it out. And just to make it that more memorable, we get to our tent and it is not pitched anymore, it is down on the ground, seems lige someone violently pulled on it an slung it around (with our stuff in it), but the pile of cow shit on it resolved that mystery rather quickly. We only had food water and some first aid with us, no bags or tents, so we had to get down to the lake, as nights get very cold up there.
This is the first video I’ve ever watched of you and man… I felt your emotion as if we were long time friends.
That’s not how I expected the story to end at all. Unacceptable and I hope the received some valuable criticism so next time someone needs help they can handle themselves better.
You know.. people who wait too long to call for help or don’t carry SOS devices are criticized for being unprepared and here you are fully prepared and calling before it was a dangerous situation and you were tested like THAT!??
I hope that doesn’t discourage you from asking for help in the future. It’s your life on the line, not some lazy, arrogant, would rather be behind a desk, copper.
New subscriber fo sho!!
As a former mountain rescue volunteer I suspect the police couldn't be arsed to get out of their comfort zone. You did the right thing. They clearly need some training on this scenario.
seems like the bigger need for training is with the youtuber here, one can of fuel, and not having the knowledge/ability to make a fire and boil water is a severe deficiency for someone planning a 4 day backpacking trip.
@bigbanta I was also surprised to see no mention of building a conventional fire
@@BookwormSkates , moreover: he was 1000ft downhill from a road. A young person. In full health. Not injured. Well equipped. The terrain looks to be a tree region; not some impenetrable cliff. He definitely has some micro spikes/crampons on those snowshoes to assist the grip. It should have taken 40 minutes to hike that up at a a slow speed. Lets say: an hour and a half if really, really, tired and going really, really, slow while searching for a safe passage. Has a compass (at least the one in the inreach). Has a GPS. It just blows my mind that he said so many times in this video that 1000ft is a lot. It's peanuts for any healthy person of his age even if all that person does is to stay on the couch and watch TV.
I think he did the right thing to call for rescue when he thought he needed it. If in doubt, it's always better to call the rescue than wait for it to be too late. But those rescuers were absolutely right to not hurry. They evaluated correctly that he's not in a dangerous situation. He needs to do some squats and build the minimum amount of muscles before ever adventuring into such hikes again.
The police officers may not be trained to get into dangerous backcountry conditions.
He was a few hundred feet from the trail and had a satalite map.
He refused instructions and rescue and kept pressing them for a helicopter evac because I kid you not getting helicopter evacs was the big trend all the hiking TH-camrs were doing a year ago when this was recorded. Look up "/out/ jon conti" for a full breakdown of how obvious it is he was doing this.
This happened to a guy on the PCT who got into a hypothermia situation. One of the rescue personnel took multiple photos and shamed him on Facebook. He spoke to that guy’s supervisor. I believe this should be brought to the attention of individuals that can correct this bad behavior. They have probably done this to multiple people. Just 2 days ago I was listening to a first responder that was laughing at an older vulnerable woman who was in shock thinking she was having a heart attack and couldn’t breath. Somehow shaming makes them feel powerful. 😢
I've had far more negative interactions with law enforcement agencies than positive; to me their behavior reminds me of people involved with organized crime. Needless to say the less interactions you have with any form of law enforcement the higher your chances will be of not being found "guilty of something".
That's called violation of the HEPA laws. They can be sued for that as well as fired. They have no right to tell of someone else's medical conditions to anyone.
@@Jack-yl7cc Yes, even being White, I am scared of law enforcement. For too many of them, it's a power trip.
@Mindy Janis Probably. But just giving up will just make someone else have to endure their torment. File a complaint (It might protect someone else)!
@@Jack-yl7cc ACAB, just remember that
One important fact is that the dehydrated meals are still edible if you just mixed some water with them and let them sit for a little bit.
I also think that you certainly did the right thing. Imagine that you had hit that SOS button much later assuming that they’d get to you, to your location in a short period of time which they obviously didn’t. If the situation was a bit more serious and still required all these communications going on forever, it would’ve resulted tragically. This is why it’s so important to never hesitate or delay to ask for help. It’s almost like a natural instinct to call for that. I’m sorry that this turned out to be shockingly amateur in your case and hope that this never happens to anyone out there in need for rescue. Love your videos man! Thanks for sharing this one with us. Take care of yourself!🙏🏼
It never should have happened Jon. As a police officer myself this is what we do. When someone needs help we come running. No questions asked. I've ran into things no person would ever think of and not had a second thought about it. I live in a rural community and we rescue people all the time. From lost hunters to people who have no business in the places they went and everyone in between. I personally know you and would trust you with the people I love as I already have. I'm sorry that this happened and I hope that you know this isn't all of us. Keep being you and pushing forward and loving every second of what this great state and world has to offer.
Hate to disagree, but an anonymous posting isn't much of a rebuttal of bad police behavior. Would it be possible to find the offending posting and specifically your disagreement in a way that those officers could see it?
Sweeping this stuff under the rug is not raising any bar.
Thanks for all you do @ Russell Hollins
There are good officers in the world. The trouble is in the recruitment and retention. Good ones tend to drop off because the bad ones seem to always hide behind qualified immunity and that brotherhood of the blue line. Russell, I am glad that you seem to know your job and responsibilities to your community. These assholes and their personality type are sadly all to common in law enforcement now-a-days. The last person I think about calling for help today is a cop. Peace.
It really depends upon the individual. Police are after all people... each is unique. Sadly, most that I know or have met fall into the category of the two "rescuers"
Thank you for your professionalism when dealing with such situations.
Sounds like you did the right thing sir. I for one would rather have an "easy" rescue than a recovery any day of the week. Your buddy was 100% right, no reason to wait until it was an actual emergency when you know that's exactly the direction things are going in.
I'm sorry that was your experience. I'm just glad you got out alive and well. That's the most important thing.
I've been through a search and rescue with a tragic ending. You did the right thing by asking for help. It's unfortunate you were treated poorly. Anyone reading this, if you feel like you're in trouble, call for help. You are not a loser for reaching out or taking safety precautions. You can be a mile off trail and get into trouble and need help. No matter your skill in the woods, carry a damn garmin. Tell someone where your location is before you leave. It can save your life and save your loved ones a lot of grief.
Hey Jon - Mark from the UK here. I have a bit of experience with rescue (Scottish mountains) and leadership and rescue of others. Firstly thank you so much for posting this video it is an important message for a number of reasons. 1. As @Bluetickbeagles says below professional rescuers do not make ANY judgement, or any 'I'm a hero' social posts, as we can ALL get our selves in a pickle for a number of reasons - however experienced. The officers would know this if they were properly trained. 2. Great for people to know and see the Garmin process so they can plan for their own EAP. 3. This is the big one! MENTAL HEALTH. I know how tough it can be being back home the other side of an emergency (which this was) We look at ourselves and what we could /should / should not have done and we are not kind to ourselves. SIMPLE: You (and the officers) are back alive so YOU got it right. Please be kind to yourself and reach out and talk it through if you need to. Take care and thank you for posting.
Just some addendums.
First of all, this was not my first time backpacking in snow. It wasn't even my first time backpacking in the bitterroots in the snow. Here is a video of me by myself, in the bitterroots, backpacking 20 miles: th-cam.com/video/u6QOdgCiGUc/w-d-xo.html So it wasn't like I just got a wild hair up my ass and ran out in the snow.
Second, I did have everything to make a fire. Lighters, matches, fire starter, knife, flint. But to start a fire and melt snow in a jet boil would have been very time consuming and I was on the move. We actually used to practice making fire with flint in the snow. Here is a video of me teaching my ex fiancee how to do it on a winter backpacking trip we did together: th-cam.com/video/u6QOdgCiGUc/w-d-xo.html Had they told me to stay put I would've started a fire.
Third, I assumed the water out there was so cold it would've frozen the meals before rehydrating them. Had I been stuck there for a few days I would've gotten a fire going and rehydrated it in the jet boil. Eating dehydrated meals without rehydrating them dehydrates you so... yes you can eat them. I sat down to make myself a meal and my fuel sputtered out. That was the moment I sent "I'm out of food." You get 160 characters in a message, and in that moment I felt explaining the situation in detail wasn't important. I was cold, lost and frustrated. Could've definitely sent a better text. Hind sight 20/20, live and learn.
Fourth, I had just returned from Mount Everest a few weeks before. If you watch that video I get very very sick. th-cam.com/video/LFLl9q-bEgk/w-d-xo.html I chalk it up to altitude, but come to find out after months of not feeling well I actually contracted Dengue Fever in Nepal which I was still dealing with unbeknownst to me while I was in the bitterroots.
Fifth, they told me they couldn't get to me so I asked if a helicopter could come get me. It's not unusual here for helicopters to get hikers. I was just throwing out that option if they couldn't make it on foot. A few months later a popular hiking TH-camr came to Idaho to backpack the Sawtooths. It was the middle of Summer and she had a high heart rate and chest pains. She pushed the button, they sent a chopper, and they pulled her out. th-cam.com/video/WuCMCNFH36I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-sfvgKT0elCu261J
Sixth, there's a shot of me at the first lake and it appears that's rubbed people. If I was really depleted how did I have energy to film. I was in emergency mode for over 30 hours and I took 4 shots in that 30 hours. 3 at the lake I was trying to get too. It was a spirit boost for me which I think is important in that situation. I came out to initially with the intention to shoot that lake and I felt I'd come all that way. It felt good to take a second and rest a sec and get those shots.
Anyway happy hiking! Hopefully people learn from all the mistakes I made on this one
😄
Thanks for being vulnerable and transparent on camera man. It’s the kind of thing this world needs as much as it get especially now. It’s a yucky kind of medicine you’ve had to take, but I can see you’ve got a good heart and spirit so you’ll only get stronger from it.🤜🏻✨
Dude. TG your ok. I had to hit my SOS this past spring. I had a very positive experience and met some GREAT S&R folks. Don't let your experience bring you down, they did the best they could considering they weren't trained for S&R. They came out to help regardless. I'm sure you would do the same.
There are good and bad in each profession. Do not give the any more of your power and your energy/spirit. Simply a bump in the road. there will be any others in your future, so best you set a precedent now in how you respond and carry on. Identify, adjust, dust off, and then do not look back. ;) (and btw, I NEVER comment on videos, but felt the need to encourage you young man ;)
You made it out; that's what counts; being alive to tell your story. Everything else is just extras. Congrats on hitting the SOS button, instead of becoming another poor statistic. You are alive!
Bro. Read the post. Quite honestly, regardless of what happened, (I think you were totally justified in reaching out for help, for the record) the writeup was ridiculously unprofessional, as well as other comments. It makes me fear that I (or others) would hesitate in dangerous situations. Sorry, man.
Sorry this has happened to you, I'm very grateful that you shared this though and well done for doing so. My partner and I are in the middle of planning our biggest thru hike coming mid this year in wind river and we are comparing PLB's and Satellite. Never expected this gut wrenching video when we came across it, I mean jaw dropping further every minute. We've learnt a lot from this so thank you very much again for sharing. We looked at their FB post, I hope you have all the screenshots you need to sue.
I was a HC-130 Crew Chief in combat Search and Rescue we also participated in State Rescue as well I never heard such a story. I’m glad you’re okay that’s the main thing. I’m glad you made the decision to hit the SOS button, I’m so sorry and sad that you had that experience. I agree with the other comments it was very un professional for those officers to make you feel bad, Terrible!
Shouldn’t have put you on their social media, respect to you for hitting SOS and props to you for highlighting this awful treatment. You deserve better help!! SOS system needs to be rebuilt with teams of dedicated SOS in these areas. My mom locked herself out of her car (with Garmin) on the side of the road in the middle of the night in Death Valley, the cops did a wellness check and left her there ALONE waiting for a tow truck that never showed up! I couldn’t believe it. We need a better system.
Why not break the window. Seems simple enough.
In my Search and Rescue experience as a volunteer all the SAR deputies in our area are highly trained, respectful and caring. This was not a SAR team but deputies sent out to do the job. Very glad you made it out and sad that you were treated poorly. I hope most people will know that this is, hopefully, an isolated incident and that SAR responders are there to help.
This is why trained SAR is so valuable. I went on a family hike, and two people in our group decided to turn back early because the hike was too strenuous. The group got back to the car, and those two people were missing, in what was supposed to be a 3 mile out-and-back hike. We searched for an hour before calling for help because the sun was going to set in a couple of hours, and dispatch told us "Well, you better look harder!" At sunset, they sent a pair of police deputies who told us to call again if they were still missing in the morning. The family bought some lights and went looking for them overnight, eventually finding them at about 2am. They had taken the wrong path, gotten lost and off-trail, walked for miles trying to find their way back, and then Grandma tripped and fell because she had pushed herself too hard on a path much more difficult than the intended one. She said she wasn't injured, just exhausted, but she also rolled down a hill at age 70+. We called for rescue, and police asked us to wait overnight, and then walk to the road for ambulance pickup. Local SAR volunteers got to her position within an hour with a 4-wheeler, and she was in the hospital well before sunrise.
@@alekos0 Again, a lot can be gotten with better attitude in the moment. SAR should be automatic, top level recused trained, and without any judgement or attitude. Every resource to save, or find lost hikers should be job one and no pressure to those asking for help except to give information to end the condition which finds them needing aid. If you don't have empathy for your fellow man; don't become a public servant.
It's a good thing these police departments have such bloated budgets! If they can't shoot it then it's an inconvenience
@InjunJoe found the pig
@InjunJoe Deputy Denham had no way of knowing whether Conti could make it out of the canyon. No food. Cold. Exhaustion. Etc. Denham has probably never been off his fat ass and has never been out of his office in a decade. (See how I generalized there without knowing the actual facts? Kinda like you did.)
I read their little post regarding this "search and rescue". They purposely forgot to include the fact that you were unable to prepare your food given the fact that you had run out of fuel, instead preferring to just say you "still had plenty of food and provisions". I am in disbelief of how unprofessional the Idaho County Sheriff Office is. To ridicule you in such a way when you were in clear need of help... I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience.
Just because he didn't know how to prepare or was unwilling to eat dehydrated food does not mean he didn't have food. You can cold soak food and eating dehydrated food won't hurt you when you probably hydrate while eating it. He admits to having plenty of water.
That’s Idaho for ya
@@CPRebels21 eating stream cold food in 5 feet of snow robs you of your warmth. Melting snow with your body robs you of warmth while you're already in 5 feet of snow. Yes, he had access to plenty of water, but to sacrifice your warmth is just as bad as not having enough fuel/water/food in this situation. Go back to your video games little guy. You can't just turn a fire on by adding wood and clicking a button in the real world.
@@bigrichard660 I'll skip insults and stick to the facts. He says he was struggling in the snow but the main footage we see he has pretty good flotation. Two, the only time he mentions being cold is at night. Three, how many times do we see him so warm he is only wearing his base layer? Four, he was plenty fine drinking cold water without getting too cold the past four days of his travels. Five, who said anything about melting snow? Hit me up with your wilderness curriculum vitae if you want to continue this conversation.
@@CPRebels21Let’s say you are right and he lied about everything. Still, the officers handled the situation very poorly, they were untrained and clearly arrogant to post a story with photos and ID the guy. I expect them to be the professionals, regardless of whether a TH-camr is in the wrong or not. Also, look at the conversation, the “rescue” team was trying to force person to get into a dangerous situation, probably lose his life; I repeat, it does not matter if the person is competent or not, if I call SOS, I expect to be rescued. It’s like calling 911 that someone is trying to murder you and the answer you get is “here are the directions to the nearest police station, only half a mile away, we are waiting for you”.
sorry you had to go through that man. They should never have treated you like that. Mad respect for posting this!
Wow. That’s an incredible account. I would have never expected anyone who needed rescued to be treated with such contempt. So sad. Thank you for being vulnerable enough to share this.
He didn't need rescuing. That's the point. I wouldn't be surprised if he staged the whole thing just so he can make an edit like this.
he did not need to be rescued and they knew that.
@@countrymouse489 were you there? did you see? how do you know?
A note of support - this is a really traumatic experience from both the stuck in a situation you couldn't get out of and in the jerky way the people who are meant to keep you safe and protected splashed you on their public page. So much love and care to you as a human to another. Don't let this experience stop you from clicking SOS again.
Police rarely make anyone feel good about themselves. My car was stolen from the parking area of my home (outside) and police do not dispatch anyone for that. There isn't any clue, but they say they'll keep an eye out. I get a call about the car being found and I say great, I'll meet you there in 20 minutes. They won't wait around, they don't care if you get it back. They say go get your car, if it isn't there when you get back, they'll just start the search again. They do not care to arrest people or find who stole the car, not willing to spend the hours/time.
I get it, sort of, but you think they'd have 30 minutes they could stay at the vehicle for. Oh well, I got my car back fine and they did find the car for me at least, which is nice.
This was a very informative and interesting video to watch. I also have Garmin InReach because I go into the woods by myself on my motorcycle, hiking, or mountain biking.
I’m grateful that so many S&R professionals commented on this post in support. S&R goes above & beyond and this level of professionalism seems the norm & is commendable. I pray I never have to use your services, and Thank you for the work you do.
Called the County to ask "why did you chose to post this and who was in charge of making that decision?" lady refused to answer and they said I could leave a message with {insert name here because I don't remember}, but when I got transferred the person had no answering machine. Let me be clear, I was nice and unconfrontational but also clear and as soon as I said Conti's name the lady got angry. I'm not gonna lie I was calling to see if Conti was full of it or what, but their response kinda confirms their butthole attitude.
I posted the full conversation in this video. They can't hide anymore
You might also let tbe County Board of Supervisors know. If they dont know, they cant fix it...and it could surely use it.
Keep it calm and polite, and preferably in writing.
It won't let me post on the FB page but I wanted to say something.
I was in the Army and deployed in different areas. I was in the National Guard and worked rescue rappelling from helicopters during floods.
I said that to say this;
There have been times when I rescued people who were absolutely freaking out and panicked and I could clearly see a way they could have self recued very easily.
Never did I belittle any of those people for being in the situation, even tho many were told to leave while it was safe.
When people get to a point where they ask for or need help, there is always a sliver of fear there that triggers it.
I rescued an elderly woman who was in her bathtub panicking and crying/screaming because the water was going over the sides and filling up the tub.
I didn't extract her then post to the world that she was so silly to be panicking when all she had to do was literally stand up and walk out.
That would have been ungodly to me to do such a thing. I helped her, comforted her and got her out of the situation then continued on with my day.
I never even thought to my self that it was humorous.
In this case I feel the same way.
Could he have done A and B to get his self out? Yes.
Do I think he called for help too soon? No.
The moment you are assessing your situation and deem it extremely difficult to impossible, communicate your situation and make people aware so that you can go home and either laugh at it or get counseling. Either way, you made it home to make that choice.
The thing I see wrong over all is posting the hikers name and personal details.
They could have omitted that and made a public service announcement or safety warning without the shaming aspect.
Did the old lady tell you she was a TH-camr and promised during her rescue to do a video highly critical of you and your squads rescue abilities? If she did you surely could have preemptively posted your view of the events on your squad’s Facebook page to defend yourself and your team. It would only be fair when the old lady was shooting for a million views on her hatchet job of you and your squads rescue of her.
@@nineteenfrankie that is a very good point you raise.
In direct answer, no I actually have never had to face that potential.
When thinking about that scenario, one with a “TH-camr” threatening to publish a faulty report and attempt to discredit what I had done for them, I think my immediate reaction would be defensive and frankly unsure how to preemptively protect myself.
I can’t honestly say that I wouldn’t publish a full version of my “side” of the event.
Thank you for pointing out the glaring issue that I had missed.
@@PsychoKillerSquirrel If the sheriffs office was aware, and clearly they were, that a you tube creator stated he was going to a hatchet job on them its quite likely the Sheriff or his second or third in command authorized the facebook posting or even suggested it. The photos the deputies took in my opinion were taken by the deputies immediately following the creator telling the deputies of his plan to discredit them, their failure to rescue him according to his screenplay and their Sheriff’s Department.
That would explain the expressions of the creator and the deputies in those selfies. The deputies reacting like “Oh really? After we spent hours hiking down this mountain and having to help you pack up your camp?! Well we have cellphones we can do social media TOO!” 📸 📸📸📸
Unlike the creator’s video the sheriff’s deputy’s facebook post itself is all about the facts of the incident and no feelings.
Its impartial and chronological. Nothing personal. No butthurt.
From the comments it is clear that 99% of the local citizens from that Idaho county approved of and supported the deputies and dispatchers in their handling of the incident.
The youtuber continually displays visible emotional distress ie tears, sighs with long pauses for his video to intentionally manipulate the viewers to gain sympathy and attention which has over a million views which by far and away is the creators biggest money maker. Most of his videos have a minuscule fraction of the view counts.
@nineteenfrankie It doesn't matter what you say. You are a company hired to do a job. If a TH-camr says hes going to make a video about your company in bad faith, who cares. You are going to preemptively shame him on FB? Pathetic. Pig like behavior
This is a really good video about the device. I wouldn't even think about the battery drain after sos
You definitely did right. Maybe someday those men will be in their own situation and realize they were wrong, hopefully they’re capable of growth. I worked on a mountain years ago, at a ski area, when somebody needed help we may have commented or even laughed in private but we always knew that our perspective is very different than the one in need of help, and we were always professional and prepared to give any assistance needed. It was more of a “roll your eyes” thing because we were used to seeing it. Never hesitate to ask for help, even if you know douches will show up.
I mean, he did walked right up there hill that was "impossible" for him before the arrived... but yeah if the guy couldn't put two and two together that he had a pot and was surrounded by firewood after he ran out of fuel... he really did do the right thing to activate the SOS because his survival skills are worse than the average teenage girl
@@PrimetimeNut This guy had the courage to admit when he wasn't able to do something. Something that could've very easily got him killed. And you're over here shitting on him for that? You proud of yourself? Like as a person? Cuz God I feel terrible for everyone around you
Forgot to mention in my other comment another huge piece of advice for backcountry winter trips. I highly recommend using liquid white gas instead of canister fuels. Doesn’t freeze or change state in cold temps so it last longer and burns hotter. Not as much sputtering on the burner. If you don’t have a liquid fuel stove (MSR whisper lite might be my fav) try getting an inverted mount for your canisters. When the state of the gas starts to change to liquid in cold temps the canisters work better upside down. Just another thing I thought I’d mention. Sorry if I’m telling you something you already know.
100% Naptha is better in the cold. Solid fuel even better yet, Ghillie/storm kettle and never run out of fuel...
What canisters do you use?
Fully agree. I just came back from an overnight with a friend of mine and two 7 and 8 year old kids. We camped at 2170m with -14ºC temps. Primus Omnifuel with white gas was what I used to melt arround 8l of snow to make water for the dehidrated meals and filling the water bladders (to be used as hot water bottles inside the kid's sleeping bags). Great advice!
@@johnqpublic9074 WORD - in evergreen woodlands, all that resin ready to BURN!
This is largely true: about the cold-weather benefit of inverted feed mode (at least whenever you are using a gas which is a mixture). To be more exact, the *gaseous* mixture, contained in the upper, "ullage" (look the word up) part of your canister, contains a mix of the components that is *in different proportions* than in the main *liquid* mixture part, lower down. (Raoult's law -- see e.g. wikipedia -- is a mathematical approximation to how the two mix proportions differ). The important consequence of this fact, to keep in mind, is then that the more volatile mixture component -- which for typical example would be propane in a propane/butane mix -- occurs at a higher molar fraction in the gaseous part of the canister than it does in the liquid part. So when you burn while feeding the stove from the upper/gas part, you are consequently depleting the volatile gas mixture component at a higher proportionate rate than the less volatile component. That means that the remaining unused fuel content is losing its cold weather "ooomph" steadily over time, as you burn: your remaining fuel content is becoming steadily less and less capable for cold weather with every minute of burn. So then, for example, you may discover that you can boil water fine at -7C on night 1, but on night 4, with the same cannister, because your mix proportions have by night 4 been slowly changed, in favour of the less volatile component, you may now struggle to cook, even at a more favourable ambient temp of, say, -2C.
This whole changing mix-proportions problem is avoided if you feed your stove pipe instead directly from the liquid part. In that case you are consuming the two mixture components in the exact original proportions written on the can: If the can is 80% butane; 20% propane, molar proportions then you are burning in exactly those original proportions. -- So, as you consume fuel in inverted feed mode, the description of the fuel mixture unused remains exactly as it was when you first started. Only the volume of liquid part is then reduced, which *does not* reduce the vapour pressure (contrary to what some people mistakenly assume). -- At least, that is, until your can is empty, when of course the vapour pressure above atmospheric has gone -- as your cannister is empty.
So, for example, if it is cold weather and hypothetically someone offers you a choice of two partially used apparently identical cannisters, which weigh exactly the same, but where cannister A has been burned inverted, while cannister B has been burned upright, you grab cannister A, since you know its mixture contains the mixed gasses in their *original proportions* ; whereas cannister B's mix will be excessively depleted in its more volatile component.
One thing to note though is that different designs of stove burner behave differently in inverted (liquid) feed mode. Not all stoves will even function at all when you invert the cannister. Also, even with a stove that does function in inverted mode, the knack of controlling the flame level by finely adjusting the outlet valve will be very different, and will, for example, involve a longer lag if the pipe is full of liquid rather than gas. So don't try inverted feed mode with any burner without first testing and practice at home. And read up on-line of user experience in inverted mode for the precise fuel and burner you are using.
A good friend of mine is a very experienced deputy, (30 years) in SAR, in the remote mountains of Colorado. We watched this and were both taken back at the lack of professionalism of the deputies who led you out. It's his opinion that you should file a formal complaint with the S.O. there. That would force an investigation into their conduct, and, hopefully, it would never happen again there. If you don't, it would be a disservice to other hikers that could be put in the same position as you. You did EVERYTHING right, now, do just one more thing to complete this story. Don't lose faith, because most deputies would NEVER treat someone like these treated you. Videos like yours are regularly watched by sheriffs departments and discussed as training. Thanks for putting this out there, you could be saving someones life by doing so.
Yes, PLEASE lodge a complaint
What dehydrated food do you have that doesn't work with cold water?
beef jerky
Problem was he didn't have *any* water, he had to melt snow. And most dehydrated food does work with non-boiling water, but it takes a lot longer sometimes hours. But yeah, why he didn't have at least a baseline of daily calories from jerky or chocolate or whatever was a bit silly :( And his backpack was 50lbs, not sure how much was camera equipment, but he clearly didn't pack very well, but he'll learn!
@@joshuadalton6063 Hardly. All of his food packs were resealible. At the very least he would rehydrate his meals and carry them wet. He could empty the unneeded ones and carry water in them, refilling where he got water the past three times. He had at least 96 oz of water carry capacity otherwise (water bottle, squeeze bag, pot w/ lid). While not ideal that alone would have easily been able to maintain him during his movements from water source to water source.
@@CPRebels21 Food isn't really the issue though, water was. And that 96oz would only last him a day, he was at least 2 days away from the next water source. Wheres he supposed to get water from the 2nd day with no water sources and no way to melt the snow?
@@joshuadalton6063 He had two days without water only, the first day from the road to the trailhead and from the trailhead to wherever he was able to get to day three. Let's be honest, hikes in day 1 & 2 could easily be done in one day - the snow covered road looked well packed by snowmobile and now he'd packed his own path day 2. So easily one day back to his car to unlimited water. Getting out of his little drainage might be hard but again, he has more than even bags of food at this point in day four (he packed for 7 days and had be skipping meals) to empty and fill with water.
it’s easy to judge from the outside in, im sure that situation is tough im glad you made it to safety
These are the kinds of stories we need in the backpacking community because it not only highlights how truly self sufficient you need to be even when you are able to contact sar, but you also explain very well the simple but very hard challenges of winter backpacking. Redundancy in every aspect of your gear is crucial. It seems that you have a really bad sheriffs department. They probably didnt want to send the helicopter without validating your insurance first which unfortunately seems to be the culture in the us
Makes me happy I'm in an Australian state where helicopter rescue is free. Not to mention they don't state your name or post your pictures. At most they state age and/or gender.
You are paying Garmin for their service. Garmins responsibility ended when they notified the Sheriffs office.
Yes, Whom ever they passed the information to is legally responsible.
Makes the Garmin feel like a mildly useless piece of equipment then
@@daltonkforsythe It is not useless. How else can you reach out for help with no cell service?
Respect for sharing your story, this helps other people who might get stuck one day too. And for the cops, what a bunch of utter idiots. I hope they'll get some reprimands on how unprofessional they acted. You absolutely did the right thing! Ego isn't worth anything, life is... I wouldn't want to now what could've happened if you weren't as experienced as you are. A lot of things could gone sour by the way they instructed you and you gladly stuck by your own gut feeling and experience. Once again, you acted good and respect for sharing!
I’m so sorry this happened to you, you did not deserve this and your feelings are valid and you deserve empathy!
As most people (hopefully) are saying, glad you’re safe and sorry you had such a poor interaction with the local law enforcement. This was a very enlightening video and I applaud you for sharing your experience
I am a wildlife officer and I would like to just say that I have a SPOT unit that I take into the field daily. I am also the person to respond to to these kind of calls. And regardless of this I hope you call SOS again if needed. There is no reason you were treated in that fashion. It seems to be a bunch of old men who would "just tough it out" and have a shit mentality. Good on you to upload this and good on you to hit that SOS when you felt there was no way you could get out alone.
I was a rescue gunner/hoist operator in the Air Force for 10 years. This whole thing is ridiculous. I was stationed in Vegas and when we weren’t deployed we did rescues all over the Sierra Nevada’s to including find a lost very autistic 7 year old girl, I’ve hoisted people out of and off of the cliff of the Grand Canyon. I say all that to say this. I have friends who are pilots and hoist operators in Spokane Washington at Fairchild Air Force base that could have been in your area in a short amount of time. Additionally I live in northwest Montana and we have a dedicated rescue helicopter with a hoist and that’s all they do is backcountry rescues in Montana, Idaho, Washington and Oregon and it’s owned by one of the founders of google so it’s usually a free service because it’s a tax write off for him. These deputies seem untrained and small minded that they didn’t know what resources were available to you and to them. Helicopters are the shit because they save lives everyday.
I always appreciated it when people took responsibility and made the right choice to ask for help. All too often we’ve had to carry bodies many of miles back to the loved ones wanting closure. We much rather you be alive and walking if you can.
Jon,
Thanks for your story, I’m glad you didn’t wait any longer to push that button. Kudos to your friend for leaning on you to do so.
I was on an ESAR team for several years and I’m surprised that that county doesn’t have a good ESAR team or if they do, that they didn’t deploy them instead of dumb and dumber.
A couple of rules to live by:
1. Expect the best but plan for the worst.
2. Two is one, and one is none. Self rescue relies on redundancy. (Clearly where you live you can’t rely on “the pros”)
If there is in fact an ESAR team near you. Go talk to them and become a member so that you can hone your skills further while helping others not to get the treatment you received. Glad you are alive to explore another day!
B
Wow. Thank you for this video. Having just joined a SAR team the behavior of the responders is very bad and highly unprofessional. There should have never been selfies taken, let alone using your personal info on social media. We would lose our jobs with behavior like that. You did the right thing pushing that button and standing your ground in not moving.
I am so sorry you went through that. Don’t downplay it, as someone with ptsd I would look into the way this has effected you because it sounds like something that could be extremely traumatising in a similar way to how I ended up with PTSD. Being dehumanised by people you trusted your life with. You did nothing wrong, you did not deserve this treatment, those people hurt you in a way no people should. They should be extremely embarrassed. You should be proud that you got through that.
Thank you for your candid assessment. Much to learn here. Sorry that SAR was not more professional. Glad you are ok. I hike alone and use a Garmin inReach. You did the right thing.
Those guys were 100% in the wrong. I’m blown away by the absolute lack of professionalism and attitude. I appreciate you having the courage to post this. I’m glad you made it out (practically without help), and we’re intelligent enough to stay put until someone got to you. Crazy story.
Came across this video on my recommended feed, glad you made it out, I’m astonished as I’ve never ever heard a story about a rescue like this! We hear about hero’s rescuing people regardless of their situation, I just can’t believe they did this to you and the way they dealt with you once you were found is beyond belief and shocking.
That’s sucks. So sorry for such rude rescuers. No heart. Your a good person, trying to do the right thing. And every now and then cross paths with people that should be good or at least better
Fantastic and inspiring story, completely sorry that it happened as this is something I want to do as a future career. Definitely earned a subscriber
Years ago I was working at the Grand Canyon and I got this insane idea to hike to the river and back in 1 day.
I let some friends know when I'd be back and to call rangers if I wasn't.
The hike took me much longer than I expected but I was doing just fine, about a mile from the end when I met a ranger coming the other way. Turns out my friends had called when I didn't show up as expected so the ranger was coming down to look at me. He said he was really impressed to find me in such good shape, so close to the end.
He said when he heard that a leg amputee was trying to do this hike, he expected to find me by the river. We started heading back up when a very sweaty very ripped little girl (about 12) came running up. She said that her dad had fallen and broken his leg. He asked how far back they were and it was over 5 miles. This kid had *RUN* up the trail 5 miles. She looked like she was a hard core athlete. I'd never seen a little kid so ripped before. The ranger left with her and I finished the hike, got a 6 pack of beer for my friends and went to tell them I was back safe and thank them for sending S&R.
That beer tasted *REALLY* good. But man, that kid was amazing.
But that was my only experience with search and rescue. I'm lucky I've never needed it, even though I hike with some unusual equipment that, if it fails, I'm screwed.
Jon, I was horrified to hear that untrained rescuers were sent to “rescue” you, and that even the dispatch didn’t seem to care about your situation. If you have access to elected officials, I would inquire about the policy of sending untrained rescuers into a potentially dangerous situation with inadequate equipment (1 person snowmobiles, no food or water for you?). It was dangerous for them too, and it sounds like they didn’t have a clue (but they got their selfie and some attention). So glad this had a positive outcome, now maybe you can do some good for future persons who need help. The Idaho Sheriff’s Department should be ashamed of themselves, not bragging and trying to shame you! I hope you have shared all this with Garmin too!
Non specialized rescue is simply a reality especially in rural, poorly funded areas. There's no excuse for the poor attitude and treatment but I would sadly expect it if in a similar situation. Non wilderness, road access close but with poor conditions ect. Glad the story ended well this time.
@Cessna Driver God forbid he had broken a leg or some other injury that prevented him from moving. He would have never made it out alive. The dispatch seemed like they didn't give a sh*t and just wanted him to walk out. The have no common sense.
Dispatch: "Just walk on the trail idiot"
Jon: "I can't see a trail"
Dispatch: "It's right in front of you idiot. Stop wasting my time, I have wife at home that needs beating."
Jon: "I'm sorry the mountain is covered in 4 foot high snow, there is no trail. Also its getting dark soon. I will get lost on the mountain."
Dispatch: "Christ, just walk on the trial and you won't get lost."
Jon: "The trail is buried, I haven't eating a proper meal in two days I'm weak and don't think I can wonder around the mountain in the dark, let along move through shoulder high snow."
Dispatch: "Fine! Christ, I'll send someone to rescue you but don't ever come back here again. We won't rescue you a second time. "
My gosh, how frustrating a rescue. Glad you’re ok!
Oh man, one could really feel your sadness and pain in the end. Hope you got over it and the support you got here by all the people helped. These officers treated you so wrong and should at least have apologized, which would not undo their complete unprofessionalism but be at least sth. Has something like this happened or did you even (rightly) sue them? What for as******. Nothing to be ashamed of and good to have made this video! Best regards, stay safe!
Wow. Maybe contact an attorney about defamation. You did the right thing John! If anything, those officers should’ve given you a pat on the back for not trying to get out on your own and ending up, hurt or worse!
It’s crazy isn’t it? I can’t get past the unseen damage this agency has done in stigmatizing and deterring others from reaching out for help when needed. Unreal man.
My first thought is that the Garmin Topo Map sucks. Then I wondered if Dan Becker would suggest OnX Backcountry, instead.
@@ironhorsealpha Let alone the damage to their reputation. "Two sherrifs wouldn't walk down an easy trail to help a man who was afraid for his life because they were either A) Too scared, or B) Too lazy." Gives you real confidence that they'll be the ones who will breach when your kids are getting killed. You know, the guys who are too lazy and scared to "walk down a hill", I'm sure they'll come charging in when there is an active shooter. 100% confidence they will hide and make excuses, again.
Wow! All I can say is police officers are human. I’ve had a very good positive experiences with them and also very negative ones similar to yours. I guess it’s just a roll of the dice. I do agree you should inquire about taking action against the way this was handled. Because there’s no way to argue they can argue it was handled correctly. Please do an update video on this. Good luck.
Whoa! Its dan becker! Lol
WOW! I’m blown away that anyone would be treated this way. You basically said I can’t hike out and they said hike out anyway. I now have less faith that I’ll be okay if I ever need help. The FB post felt like a preemptive strike to discredit a video like this, but ultimately just makes them look even worse. I’m sorry this was your experience
For real, it’s impossible to not lose faith in the system after seeing the lack search & rescue experience on display & the lack of basic professionalism.
Folks...PLEASE do not think that this is the norm for most SAR services and teams. Trained SAR teams are generally exceedingly professional, very effective, and absolutely dedicated to what they do. These officers clearly stated that they had no SAR training and were just regular cops which basically means that their sheriff's department has a problem; their sheriff's department has no SAR training. And that means that people's lives are at risk.
I would most certainly be contacting the Board of Supervisors for the county as well as the sheriff himself or herself and asking what the heck is going on, because in that territory they absolutely should have a search and rescue team.
And, they need training. Of course they also need funding, and that's a big problem in a lot of areas because most search and rescue teams are funded by public donations.
But again, please realize most areas which have SAR teams have well-trained and dedicated people.
NEVER be afraid to ask for help when you truly need it!!
Even if you get officers pardon me non-professional helpers like the ones that John experienced, it's still better than no help at all. It stinks, but you got out, safely, and that's the important thing.
If you are concerned about the response you might get in a given area, plan ahead. Call the sheriff's office where you plan to go, and ask them about their emergency response procedures. See if they'd appreciate your filing a plan ahead of time, especially if conditions make the possibility if needing help a real thing (ie, as in this story). If you do, always check in after your trip and thank them for being there, maybe even donate a bit.
I hope that this video gets linked under that FB post, and that there are a lot of views; I also hope that ICSD gets their shit together and comes up with proper SAR support for the area they protect.
So glad you're OK! Please don't let this stop you from enjoying your backcountry activities.
That's shocking behaviour from SAR.
I've been doing SAR and Mountain Rescue for 14 odd years, and there is no way that we would have EVER made a subject move for one, questioned the motive for requiring rescue for two, and not had a plan in place to actually reach the subjects location within the first day.
Spending the night, getting you hydrated and some nutrition into you would have been the most sensible action plan...
And posting a story like that, would have ended up with a court case for sure!
Fortunately this is an anomaly not the norm in terms of rescue. I have been the receiving end of absolutely OUTSTANDING rescue services and appreciate what the men and women of these teams did. Overall it went well for you and you will adjust based on the lessons learned. Layers of options when "pushing" it is prudent. Sidebar: I have reviewed quite a few videos of people that were "close" what an outsider would perceive as a safe exit\extract only to never find it or get to it. So their assessment of what you were experiencing and decisions you made were clouded by the comfort of the vast array of resources they could leverage. Thank you for Sharing.