This breaks my heart. My husband and I decided to leave the UMC and recently joined a lovely faith-filled, Gospel-preaching Baptist church. He was a lifelong Methodist (I was raised in both over the years), and it was tough for him to leave and undergo baptism by immersion, but he did. That was a testament to how hurt and disillusioned he was with the UMC. Until recently, I'd worked in Methodist churches for over 20 years. Since I left my last position, I know that the church has hired two married gay men (not to each other) as the music and family ministry leaders. That congregation has fallen down the deep well of aligning themselves with the world instead of against it. To think that the UMC cannot define sexual immorality is mind-blowing to me. The Bible is very clear on the matter.
You have helped my husband and me through this whole thing. We hope you know that, and we thank you. We have also read most of Tom’s articles. We thank him also. We had to walk, but we have been so grateful we did. I think the Global Methodist (for now) is wanting to stay theologically Biblical. What an eye-opener for us. We were asleep, now we are waking up. Our church has been growing. Kids with young families. The younger and older in the men’s group give their time to help the widows and single women with repairs, etc. in and around their home. The younger men invite the older men to fish with them and be a part of their lives. We have been used to the older people doing most of the work involved in the church because there were not much young. Now we work together and value each other. Also, we are so happy to have young children. What a joy! We hear more Old Testament than we have for years and how it relates to the New Testament. Not the same thing over and over, year after year. Thank you both. ❤
When I first heard about the General Conference voting for same sex marriage, I was sad and began to wonder if I could stay in the denomination I've been a part of all my life. As i learned more about what happened at the conference and the extreme politicization of the denomination, I am absolutely sure I need to take my family and flee. Even if you think you can stomach the changes now ... do not be fooled into thinking the progressives are done. This is only the beginning.
Yeah we aren't living in the world as it SHOULD be. We are just making our way through this world that is deeply corrupt and wrong, where even organizations that claim to be in submission to the lordship of Christ can be deeply dysfunctional abusive. For those of us who paid to leave, we did so because it was a better alternative than staying...
Thank you so much for this information. At 90 this is very difficult times. It’s actually embarrassing to say I am a member of the United Methodist Church. Thank you both and Bless the Good N Wed
I was a Methodist. Not my fault they sold-out in "68. Bit by bit they made unholy changes. Today, Who remembers Charles Wesley's hymns? They replaced the hymnal with a screen on the wall, bearing songs you never heard before - and they removed the "Amen" at the end of each hymn. Every one that sells out to the illuminati gets rich and starts becoming a "modern" one where sin is blessed and holiness cannot be found. A whitewashed tomb full of dead men's bones. Anyway, the UMC here said anyone wanting to leave can do so. I'm happy to say it's not my place of worship. And, honestly, when do they give any time and attention to worship anyway? When did they start getting excited and talk about the sermon, while they're eating & having coffee afterwards? They talk about everything except church & God. Why? Well, how much can you get out of a strictly 1-hour service anyway? Especially when the pastor is in such a hurry to get home after the service that he/she bolts out the back door as soon as humanly possible, not allowing for a person to ask a question, leaving the congregants to "fellowship" without their presence.
I resonate with a lot of what you said here. There have been a number of cultural shifts that indicate the churches, and even the pastors, don't believe as they ought. This is conveyed in the ways that we sing together in worship and then relate to one another (or don't) outside of worship. I'm afraid too much American religion is deeply phony.
I attended a meeting led by Bishop Fierro Harvey to discuss the One Church Plan. I distinctly remember her saying that if the Plan passed then they would continue to expect fidelity in singleness and marriage. I thought "okay so you just want to redraw the line on same-sex relationships and marriage but are not out to abolish all sexual morality". And now we have General Conference Charlotte. The buzz on social media from traditional Methodists has been "General Conference was even worse than we expected". With fewer traditionalists suddenly the "centrists" were no longer in charge. I stepped away from pastoral ministry in 2022 and returned to the Catholic Church and am loving it. Still part of a clergy covenant group which is mostly United Methodist.
I agree, especially since secular law supports same sex marriages. As we saw with Christian florists, photographers, bakers, etc, activists will target those Methodist churches standing firm on this issue and demand they submit or face a lawsuit. It's not like the bishop will support that church, especially with declining budgets ... the writing is on the wall here.
@@82jbrewster With the new language, it is unlikely that any conference will actually be able to help defend that position. In order for a religious institution to provide legal defenses and exemptions, there needs to be clear language in their policies, doctrines and statements of belief. With how ambiguous the language is, I doubt any court which entertains the prosecution of pastors who refuse to conduct a same-sex marriage would consider the UMC a legal exemption or an interested party. In simple terms: Traditional pastors are on their own and the UMC can't protect them, even if they wanted to.
Trying to re-find my relationship in Christ, in the church of of my baptismal faith. I started going back to church after a vast amount of my life of being faithless... and this is what I find!? This isn't new. Wokeness found its way to the entertainment industry around 2016. It's now eating itself. People don't want this! In entertainment, people generally just want to be entertained. In their faith, people (I imagine) just want to be uplifted and feel the Holy Spirit. Pretty simple. Wokeness eventually eats itself. It always does. I'm saddened, but not surprised, that the woke mind virus has taken hold in modern Christianity. I just wish it weren't so. I'm still trying to come back to my faith, and what I found was a divide because of modern day, trendy at the moment, identity politics.
Thanks Jeffrey and Tom. While we walked away from our building (which ithink may enable us to have a fresher start in the GMC over simply changing signs) i appreciate hearing perspetives over the way the conference ended up. It will be interesting to see what some of the African conferences and churches decide to do.
Listening to conversation about regionalization, I remembered the Revelation letters to the churches, which to me were JESUS assessing how well the individual church was living out the gospel that was intrusted to them. Scripture doesn't tell us that each church was commended for regional uniqueness, but rather that JESUS gave instruction to mold the individual church to the central mission of the gospel whose foundation is the word of GOD.
Indeed. It wasn't all that long ago that a UMC minister was fired by the bishop for opposing a homosexual becoming a formal member. (It was OK to attend services & otherwise participate.) After some years, the 'conservatives' had him restored with back pay. But it's likely true that the perverts have been slowly taking over the UMC.
So the latest technique for the Conference our church was in is to send a team of church members to all members homes to meet one on one to answer any questions they might have about the UMC conference. That is intimidation! We have already walked months ago but many members will wilt to their presence.
As one who grew up in the Evangelical United Brethren church where my family line helped literally start and build local congregations & buildings, I’ve been watching this as someone who sees their family heritage being ripped to shreds. I have dear friends who are pastors on both sides of the issue. I have family now struggling with their future in the UMC. Although I have not been associated with the UMC for decades, watching this process hurts my heart. Lord Jesus heal our land.
Why does the sinful “new” belief group get to keep the name and properties? The same thing happened in the Episcopal church and the sinful “new” belief groups got to keep all the buildings and properties, most of which was paid for buy those that believe the Bible and avoid sin. How can seemingly educated people misinterpret the Bible so devastatingly wrong??
Thank you for this very informative video, It has been very helpful in attempting to prayerfully discern God's will and guidance for me in the future viz a viz my relationship to the UMC and the local congregation.
I wish more was said about the one comment that was mentioned that the progressive movement was less inclined to support the nation of Israel. It would seem that a love for oppressed people would be the heart and soul of what it means to follow Jesus.
I am having a follow up meeting with my three little congregations in WV after our conference finished up. I have been encouraging my folks to watch Plain Spoken for about 9 months now. I want to include scripts from your sessions with Scott Field, Randy Frye and Tom Lambrecht. Can you supply those even at a cost so my people have them before them as they decide which road they want to take. Thank you for all your good work. God's blessing. Pastor Lynn Keener
Another excellent presentation. To add to some of Pastor Tom's closing comments, as well as yours, Pastor Jeffrey, I do not think that an 'informed congregant,' one who does not favor the course of Biblical contradictions upon which the UMC has charted their future, will ever be 100% comfortable with remaining in the UMC. That will be their outcome because they will always feel the presence of a dark cloud hanging over them consequential to a decision made that contradicts what they know is right but chose physical comfort, with some relational comfort, over spiritual comfort, the only comfort that can offer 100% freedom from worry as to whether they have chosen as God would have had them choose. Sadly too, the likely majority of those remaining are of such an age that a move and new beginnings are just something they do not want to pursue at this late stage in their lives and thus, their financial resources and number makes them nothing short of pawns for a radicalized organization. That is my opinion as one who at 70 years of age often identified myself, and my wife, as the 'youth group' in the UM church we chose to individually disaffiliate from. May your ministry continue to grow and flourish as you share the truth.
@kerrybowers865. Yes. My husband is in his 70’s, and I will be 70 in a few weeks. We still feel young. We can keep up with the youngins’! I know for older people, even older than us,😲,it’s hard to walk away. I do not even want to put that on them. Most do not understand. At our former UMC church, some of the …older than us…people thought the people that were leaving was because they wanted to be more liberal. They thought WE left because we wanted to be more liberal,even though I thought we explained. I just recently found that out. What do you do?. I feel that we say what we can and leave them alone. It is too hard on them. I respect and love and am grateful for Jeffery, but he might not agree. But that’s how I feel.
Bless those that want to walk thru the disaffiliation process. In today’s world it would be much easier to just walk away and let the UMC deal with a building of comparative little value in most communities any more.
As a retired Therapist, if they can do it, they will do it. They current crop not gay and trans people is aggressively demanding their way. That is why they chose to destroy the PCUSA and now the UMC.
The Scriptures haven't changed, but our willingness to ignore them sure has! Viewing the general conference, I couldn't help but notice the overwhelming representation of domineering women and passive men. I cannot help but have some reservations about the GMC. Seems like it may be just a matter of time before more of the same. I sure hope not though.
My brother, first let me say I appreciate you and what you do. There are times I get beside myself as a Black man and respond to some things I feel I disagree with. It’s not to offend you or your guest, thus I apologize should my comments be offensive. But as you and the GMC continue I’m prayerful that as the GMC is pro-African that there are Black Americans like me who are like in the middle. I never use the term conservative or traditional as it relates to the Holy Scriptures or doctrine. It’s either historically orthodox or heretical. I do so because those terms are use in politics and forces everyone to take sides. In addition, I’m going to say ask the GMC to follow the AME Church, as we are slowly following the ways of the UMC. And just be present in case some members may want to remain Methodist but not AME and Churches may want to disaffiliate (if allowable) from the AME Church.
Hi Brother Marcus, I think I recall responding to you recently on a comment you made on the latest Method Ministries interview I did with him. I don't know why my response isn't showing anymore. I appreciate you and your words here. I got kinda confused at the end. I think you were indicating that the AME is similarly struggling to maintain the high standards of Christ, and that there may be a time in the future in which refugee churches from the AME may need some ministry from folks. It has been very unfortunate, to my mind, to note that black churches in the US haven't thus far been very drawn to the GMC at all. I'm really tired of the racial separation, and I'm embarrassed that we continue to see it in the church in America. I want to do what I can to help the GMC to get away from the default upper middle class white disposition that is so pervasive in the UMC. I don't know what can be done to present the GMC as a serious option to black churches. With respect to the liberal/conservative continuum, I understand why folks don't like those words for these current issues. However, I continue to think they are useful even if they confuse the issue for many. I'll hope to produce some content on that in a month or so.
Jeffrey, Do you know when these new rules will take effect? Our small counrty church in SC is finally starting to get serious about leaving... we've been trying to disaffiliate, but know we don't have the funds to start the legal route, nor do we want to use the funds we do have on the legal route. Is SC different in that they still consider us leaving on the exit clause?
If your not out by now I doubt if there is much a chance on getting out with anything other than the shirt on your back. The Progressives now hold all the power, and will do anything to keep the assets they control. I think the only possible route is to walk away from everything and start over, but I may be wrong.
United Methodist opened up this door when you began to allow women as pastors it begins with one l”little”detour from Gods word and Gods design and order for the family and Church
The fact that the UMC leadership was making such a display of land acknowledgements and respecting indigenous people, while simultaneously, intentionally trying to keep African delegates in the dark on what their agenda actually was, is "chef's kiss" hypocrisy.
I really don't think the UMC will make an easy path for congregations to disaffiliate at this point. Moral people need to look into the future. Will there even BE conservative / traditional pastors coming down the assignment pipeline? This will be a lot more apparent once the non-discrimination training comes out for PPR committees.
Folks (to include conservative clergy) that saw this coming weren't aggressive enough. With a little planning, "separation money" could have been set aside in tax exempt religious foundations that would loan money as needed to a local church with the loan secured by a lien on the real estate. It's an obvious approach but I haven't seen or heard of it being done anywhere "around here" (Virginia). It's too late now.
That people still believe Tom’s spin is amazing to me. To say there are no standards of morality for UMC clergy is ridiculous. We have one of the most rigorous vetting processes of any denomination in our Boards of Ministry processes. Nearly anyone it seems can become a GMC pastor with very minimal standards as long as you will be exclusionary to a group of people. This will soon be a big problem. I go with the high standards and accountability of the UMC. What a spin show Jeffrey runs, but he surely has the time.
The context of this particular conversation was around standards for punishing sexual immorality among the clergy. You're not really speaking to the issue we were discussing here. You might consider listening with a more precise ear. If you are concerned about the GMC maintaining high standards for its clergy, you are preaching to the choir and will get no pushback from me. While Tom and I might be prone to speak from a certain theological location, I'm not sure your accusation of spin is warranted (or substantiated). Stan, from time to time you think it is a good idea to troll my page with somewhat embarrassing takes. I would urge you, if you want to engage, to consider whether or not your thoughts are fully digested before you put them in writing.
Isaiah warned us about associations 2500 years ago: "Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for Alahim (God) is with us. For YHWH spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify YHWH of hosts Himself: and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread!" Isaiah 8:9,10,11,12,13 Thank You Father in haShamayim for sending us Your Son Yahshua - we associate with HIM today and His broken Body and poured out Blood for us: The Aurim and Thummim of our One and Only High Priest! AMEN
Were the changes to the church received by revelation? Who is the prophet that received the revelation? If the changes were not the result of revelation from our Father in Heaven, they are false and without validity.
If you support women as clergy which is explicitly forbidden in the New Testament in numerous places, you have NO moral stance to comp[ain about Gay clergy which is forbidden by IMPLICATION (and clearly is still forbidden) rather than EXPLICITLY! Once you have said "A" you must say "B". Until you REALLY clean house and go FULLY biblical, you are hypocrites and going to fall apart once again. REPENT or continue to be powerless and lose.
Maybe this, maybe that, etc...these TWO "new denominations" (UMC & GMC) that have been created by this split is choas - the more one looks at both of them more closely. So, currently UMC pastors (clergy) are not "required" to perform same sex marriages/weddings, but how long will this last? I can see them being called "homophobes, racists, etc." in the near future. Especially, once one same sex couple comes to them wanting to be married, and they are refused (no matter how diplomatically). Just like the bakeries that wouldn't do wedding cakes for same sex couples they were taken to court/harassed. This even though there were other places that would make the cake. No matter that the same sex couple could go to another UMC clergy that would perform the wedding, there will be some same sex couple that will a fit about being refused..
This breaks my heart. My husband and I decided to leave the UMC and recently joined a lovely faith-filled, Gospel-preaching Baptist church. He was a lifelong Methodist (I was raised in both over the years), and it was tough for him to leave and undergo baptism by immersion, but he did. That was a testament to how hurt and disillusioned he was with the UMC. Until recently, I'd worked in Methodist churches for over 20 years. Since I left my last position, I know that the church has hired two married gay men (not to each other) as the music and family ministry leaders. That congregation has fallen down the deep well of aligning themselves with the world instead of against it. To think that the UMC cannot define sexual immorality is mind-blowing to me. The Bible is very clear on the matter.
You have helped my husband and me through this whole thing. We hope you know that, and we thank you. We have also read most of Tom’s articles. We thank him also.
We had to walk, but we have been so grateful we did. I think the Global Methodist (for now) is wanting to stay theologically Biblical. What an eye-opener for us. We were asleep, now we are waking up.
Our church has been growing. Kids with young families. The younger and older in the men’s group give their time to help the widows and single women with repairs, etc. in and around their home. The younger men invite the older men to fish with them and be a part of their lives. We have been used to the older people doing most of the work involved in the church because there were not much young. Now we work together and value each other. Also, we are so happy to have young children. What a joy!
We hear more Old Testament than we have for years and how it relates to the New Testament. Not the same thing over and over, year after year.
Thank you both. ❤
When I first heard about the General Conference voting for same sex marriage, I was sad and began to wonder if I could stay in the denomination I've been a part of all my life. As i learned more about what happened at the conference and the extreme politicization of the denomination, I am absolutely sure I need to take my family and flee. Even if you think you can stomach the changes now ... do not be fooled into thinking the progressives are done. This is only the beginning.
Flee
@@wanda520 -- Your best bets might either be independent Baptist or the conservative branch of the Lutheran Church.
Why should any of our churches have to pay in order to leave the UMC? This is NOT the denomination we joined, trust clause or not!
Yeah we aren't living in the world as it SHOULD be. We are just making our way through this world that is deeply corrupt and wrong, where even organizations that claim to be in submission to the lordship of Christ can be deeply dysfunctional abusive. For those of us who paid to leave, we did so because it was a better alternative than staying...
@@plainspokenpod my little country church is finally getting it. We are working on a departure. Thank you for all you do to keep us informed!
The UMC is no longer a church but a political entity. If they are not careful, they could lose their tax-exempt status.
lmao no they won't lose that status. We will continue our mission against white supremacy and anti-LGBTQ+ hate.
Thank you so much for this information. At 90 this is very difficult times. It’s actually embarrassing to say I am a member of the United Methodist Church. Thank you both and Bless the Good N Wed
I was a Methodist. Not my fault they sold-out in "68. Bit by bit they made unholy changes. Today, Who remembers Charles Wesley's hymns? They replaced the hymnal with a screen on the wall, bearing songs you never heard before - and they removed the "Amen" at the end of each hymn. Every one that sells out to the illuminati gets rich and starts becoming a "modern" one where sin is blessed and holiness cannot be found. A whitewashed tomb full of dead men's bones. Anyway, the UMC here said anyone wanting to leave can do so. I'm happy to say it's not my place of worship. And, honestly, when do they give any time and attention to worship anyway? When did they start getting excited and talk about the sermon, while they're eating & having coffee afterwards? They talk about everything except church & God. Why? Well, how much can you get out of a strictly 1-hour service anyway? Especially when the pastor is in such a hurry to get home after the service that he/she bolts out the back door as soon as humanly possible, not allowing for a person to ask a question, leaving the congregants to "fellowship" without their presence.
I'm sorry. I have a lot of folks in their late stages of life writing me in such deep sorrow that it got to this point. It really is a shame.
I resonate with a lot of what you said here. There have been a number of cultural shifts that indicate the churches, and even the pastors, don't believe as they ought. This is conveyed in the ways that we sing together in worship and then relate to one another (or don't) outside of worship. I'm afraid too much American religion is deeply phony.
Praying for Tom and associates GODs peace and protection as they continue their work in truth and love. 🙏
I attended a meeting led by Bishop Fierro Harvey to discuss the One Church Plan. I distinctly remember her saying that if the Plan passed then they would continue to expect fidelity in singleness and marriage. I thought "okay so you just want to redraw the line on same-sex relationships and marriage but are not out to abolish all sexual morality". And now we have General Conference Charlotte. The buzz on social media from traditional Methodists has been "General Conference was even worse than we expected". With fewer traditionalists suddenly the "centrists" were no longer in charge. I stepped away from pastoral ministry in 2022 and returned to the Catholic Church and am loving it. Still part of a clergy covenant group which is mostly United Methodist.
I feel there will be lawsuits if a pastor refuses to perform a same sex ceremony
I agree. And how supportive will a conference be when they have to defend a traditional position? That remains to be seen.
Lawsuits are temporary, Hell is forever.
I agree, especially since secular law supports same sex marriages. As we saw with Christian florists, photographers, bakers, etc, activists will target those Methodist churches standing firm on this issue and demand they submit or face a lawsuit. It's not like the bishop will support that church, especially with declining budgets ... the writing is on the wall here.
@@82jbrewster With the new language, it is unlikely that any conference will actually be able to help defend that position. In order for a religious institution to provide legal defenses and exemptions, there needs to be clear language in their policies, doctrines and statements of belief. With how ambiguous the language is, I doubt any court which entertains the prosecution of pastors who refuse to conduct a same-sex marriage would consider the UMC a legal exemption or an interested party.
In simple terms: Traditional pastors are on their own and the UMC can't protect them, even if they wanted to.
Trying to re-find my relationship in Christ, in the church of of my baptismal faith. I started going back to church after a vast amount of my life of being faithless... and this is what I find!? This isn't new. Wokeness found its way to the entertainment industry around 2016. It's now eating itself. People don't want this! In entertainment, people generally just want to be entertained. In their faith, people (I imagine) just want to be uplifted and feel the Holy Spirit. Pretty simple. Wokeness eventually eats itself. It always does. I'm saddened, but not surprised, that the woke mind virus has taken hold in modern Christianity. I just wish it weren't so. I'm still trying to come back to my faith, and what I found was a divide because of modern day, trendy at the moment, identity politics.
Very thankful for this information. Many prayers co tinue for our church.
Thanks Jeffrey and Tom. While we walked away from our building (which ithink may enable us to have a fresher start in the GMC over simply changing signs) i appreciate hearing perspetives over the way the conference ended up. It will be interesting to see what some of the African conferences and churches decide to do.
Listening to conversation about regionalization, I remembered the Revelation letters to the churches, which to me were JESUS assessing how well the individual church was living out the gospel that was intrusted to them. Scripture doesn't tell us that each church was commended for regional uniqueness, but rather that JESUS gave instruction to mold the individual church to the central mission of the gospel whose foundation is the word of GOD.
When they say "We won't force anybody to perform gay marriages', they mean "Yet".
Indeed. It wasn't all that long ago that a UMC minister was fired by the bishop for opposing a homosexual becoming a formal member. (It was OK to attend services & otherwise participate.) After some years, the 'conservatives' had him restored with back pay. But it's likely true that the perverts have been slowly taking over the UMC.
So the latest technique for the Conference our church was in is to send a team of church members to all members homes to meet one on one to answer any questions they might have about the UMC conference. That is intimidation! We have already walked months ago but many members will wilt to their presence.
As one who grew up in the Evangelical United Brethren church where my family line helped literally start and build local congregations & buildings, I’ve been watching this as someone who sees their family heritage being ripped to shreds. I have dear friends who are pastors on both sides of the issue. I have family now struggling with their future in the UMC. Although I have not been associated with the UMC for decades, watching this process hurts my heart. Lord Jesus heal our land.
Why does the sinful “new” belief group get to keep the name and properties?
The same thing happened in the Episcopal church and the sinful “new” belief groups got to keep all the buildings and properties, most of which was paid for buy those that believe the Bible and avoid sin.
How can seemingly educated people misinterpret the Bible so devastatingly wrong??
Great insight about conference decisions.
There is an absolute morality. It is found in Scripture.
Thank you for this very informative video, It has been very helpful in attempting to prayerfully discern God's will and guidance for me in the future viz a viz my relationship to the UMC and the local congregation.
I wish more was said about the one comment that was mentioned that the progressive movement was less inclined to support the nation of Israel. It would seem that a love for oppressed people would be the heart and soul of what it means to follow Jesus.
I am having a follow up meeting with my three little congregations in WV after our conference finished up. I have been encouraging my folks to watch Plain Spoken for about 9 months now. I want to include scripts from your sessions with Scott Field, Randy Frye and Tom Lambrecht. Can you supply those even at a cost so my people have them before them as they decide which road they want to take. Thank you for all your good work. God's blessing. Pastor Lynn Keener
Lynn, I should be able to provide transcripts pretty easily to you. Email me at plainspokenpod@gmail.com and I’ll help you
Another excellent presentation. To add to some of Pastor Tom's closing comments, as well as yours, Pastor Jeffrey, I do not think that an 'informed congregant,' one who does not favor the course of Biblical contradictions upon which the UMC has charted their future, will ever be 100% comfortable with remaining in the UMC. That will be their outcome because they will always feel the presence of a dark cloud hanging over them consequential to a decision made that contradicts what they know is right but chose physical comfort, with some relational comfort, over spiritual comfort, the only comfort that can offer 100% freedom from worry as to whether they have chosen as God would have had them choose. Sadly too, the likely majority of those remaining are of such an age that a move and new beginnings are just something they do not want to pursue at this late stage in their lives and thus, their financial resources and number makes them nothing short of pawns for a radicalized organization. That is my opinion as one who at 70 years of age often identified myself, and my wife, as the 'youth group' in the UM church we chose to individually disaffiliate from. May your ministry continue to grow and flourish as you share the truth.
@kerrybowers865. Yes. My husband is in his 70’s, and I will be 70 in a few weeks. We still feel young. We can keep up with the youngins’! I know for older people, even older than us,😲,it’s hard to walk away. I do not even want to put that on them. Most do not understand. At our former UMC church, some of the …older than us…people thought the people that were leaving was because they wanted to be more liberal. They thought WE left because we wanted to be more liberal,even though I thought we explained. I just recently found that out. What do you do?. I feel that we say what we can and leave them alone. It is too hard on them. I respect and love and am grateful for Jeffery, but he might not agree. But that’s how I feel.
Bless those that want to walk thru the disaffiliation process. In today’s world it would be much easier to just walk away and let the UMC deal with a building of comparative little value in most communities any more.
As a retired Therapist, if they can do it, they will do it. They current crop not gay and trans people is aggressively demanding their way. That is why they chose to destroy the PCUSA and now the UMC.
UMC hasn't been a church for a fair while....
The Scriptures haven't changed, but our willingness to ignore them sure has! Viewing the general conference, I couldn't help but notice the overwhelming representation of domineering women and passive men. I cannot help but have some reservations about the GMC. Seems like it may be just a matter of time before more of the same. I sure hope not though.
My brother, first let me say I appreciate you and what you do. There are times I get beside myself as a Black man and respond to some things I feel I disagree with. It’s not to offend you or your guest, thus I apologize should my comments be offensive. But as you and the GMC continue I’m prayerful that as the GMC is pro-African that there are Black Americans like me who are like in the middle. I never use the term conservative or traditional as it relates to the Holy Scriptures or doctrine. It’s either historically orthodox or heretical. I do so because those terms are use in politics and forces everyone to take sides. In addition, I’m going to say ask the GMC to follow the AME Church, as we are slowly following the ways of the UMC. And just be present in case some members may want to remain Methodist but not AME and Churches may want to disaffiliate (if allowable) from the AME Church.
Hi Brother Marcus, I think I recall responding to you recently on a comment you made on the latest Method Ministries interview I did with him. I don't know why my response isn't showing anymore. I appreciate you and your words here. I got kinda confused at the end. I think you were indicating that the AME is similarly struggling to maintain the high standards of Christ, and that there may be a time in the future in which refugee churches from the AME may need some ministry from folks. It has been very unfortunate, to my mind, to note that black churches in the US haven't thus far been very drawn to the GMC at all. I'm really tired of the racial separation, and I'm embarrassed that we continue to see it in the church in America. I want to do what I can to help the GMC to get away from the default upper middle class white disposition that is so pervasive in the UMC. I don't know what can be done to present the GMC as a serious option to black churches.
With respect to the liberal/conservative continuum, I understand why folks don't like those words for these current issues. However, I continue to think they are useful even if they confuse the issue for many. I'll hope to produce some content on that in a month or so.
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Goodness. God bless those nations that practice God’s laws concerning sexuality and family. We humans are imperfect but Scripture is not.
The General Conference voted out the 7th commandment. Wonder what is next?🙄
You are done UMC
Is Tom remaining in the UMC? I don't recall that subject in the video.
He said "yes".
Jeffrey, Do you know when these new rules will take effect? Our small counrty church in SC is finally starting to get serious about leaving... we've been trying to disaffiliate, but know we don't have the funds to start the legal route, nor do we want to use the funds we do have on the legal route.
Is SC different in that they still consider us leaving on the exit clause?
If I understand correctly all of it takes effect immediately. Except for regionalization, which requires ratification in the annual conferences.
If your not out by now I doubt if there is much a chance on getting out with anything other than the shirt on your back. The Progressives now hold all the power, and will do anything to keep the assets they control. I think the only possible route is to walk away from everything and start over, but I may be wrong.
United Methodist opened up this door when you began to allow women as pastors it begins with one l”little”detour from Gods word and Gods design and order for the family and Church
Actually it started when they allowed the divorced to remarry in the church. Then came women clergy.
Will the UMC next re-write Holy Scripture to better fit a progressive church?
My goodness. This is no longer a church.
In some regards, these "trendy" churches look like freak shows.
The fact that the UMC leadership was making such a display of land acknowledgements and respecting indigenous people, while simultaneously, intentionally trying to keep African delegates in the dark on what their agenda actually was, is "chef's kiss" hypocrisy.
I find it funny that they are so engrossed in changing church law that they forgot about God's law. That's the world they live in.
@@stevewentworth3026 No doubt about it.
I really don't think the UMC will make an easy path for congregations to disaffiliate at this point. Moral people need to look into the future. Will there even BE conservative / traditional pastors coming down the assignment pipeline? This will be a lot more apparent once the non-discrimination training comes out for PPR committees.
Folks (to include conservative clergy) that saw this coming weren't aggressive enough. With a little planning, "separation money" could have been set aside in tax exempt religious foundations that would loan money as needed to a local church with the loan secured by a lien on the real estate. It's an obvious approach but I haven't seen or heard of it being done anywhere "around here" (Virginia). It's too late now.
That people still believe Tom’s spin is amazing to me. To say there are no standards of morality for UMC clergy is ridiculous. We have one of the most rigorous vetting processes of any denomination in our Boards of Ministry processes. Nearly anyone it seems can become a GMC pastor with very minimal standards as long as you will be exclusionary to a group of people. This will soon be a big problem. I go with the high standards and accountability of the UMC. What a spin show Jeffrey runs, but he surely has the time.
The context of this particular conversation was around standards for punishing sexual immorality among the clergy. You're not really speaking to the issue we were discussing here. You might consider listening with a more precise ear. If you are concerned about the GMC maintaining high standards for its clergy, you are preaching to the choir and will get no pushback from me. While Tom and I might be prone to speak from a certain theological location, I'm not sure your accusation of spin is warranted (or substantiated). Stan, from time to time you think it is a good idea to troll my page with somewhat embarrassing takes. I would urge you, if you want to engage, to consider whether or not your thoughts are fully digested before you put them in writing.
Where do we get a paper copy of this. ?
what makes the United Methodist Church united, methodist or a church?
Isaiah warned us about associations 2500 years ago: "Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for Alahim (God) is with us. For YHWH spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify YHWH of hosts Himself: and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread!" Isaiah 8:9,10,11,12,13
Thank You Father in haShamayim for sending us Your Son Yahshua - we associate with HIM today and His broken Body and poured out Blood for us: The Aurim and Thummim of our One and Only High Priest! AMEN
This become official in Jan 2025 ?
What happen to preaching the Gospel and nurturing souls. I suggest that politics be practiced at home. And in all let charity reign.
Pastor/ Parish members will be “ trained “. Interesting term.
😊😊
Interesting. I sometimes get the feeling these videos are pointed at making GMCers “feel good” rather than trying to change any UMC minds.
Isn't it a wonderful thing that one's subjective feelings cannot in any way determine the inner thoughts or motivations of others?
Were the changes to the church received by revelation? Who is the prophet that received the revelation? If the changes were not the result of revelation from our Father in Heaven, they are false and without validity.
So they have turned their backs on the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.
God will give us over to our sin (Romans 1:18-32). Is that the state of the larger body of Christ today?
If you support women as clergy which is explicitly forbidden in the New Testament in numerous places, you have NO moral stance to comp[ain about Gay clergy which is forbidden by IMPLICATION (and clearly is still forbidden) rather than EXPLICITLY! Once you have said "A" you must say "B". Until you REALLY clean house and go FULLY biblical, you are hypocrites and going to fall apart once again. REPENT or continue to be powerless and lose.
Davis Jennifer Lopez Betty Walker Ruth
Maybe this, maybe that, etc...these TWO "new denominations" (UMC & GMC) that have been created by this split is choas - the more one looks at both of them more closely. So, currently UMC pastors (clergy) are not "required" to perform same sex marriages/weddings, but how long will this last? I can see them being called "homophobes, racists, etc." in the near future. Especially, once one same sex couple comes to them wanting to be married, and they are refused (no matter how diplomatically). Just like the bakeries that wouldn't do wedding cakes for same sex couples they were taken to court/harassed. This even though there were other places that would make the cake. No matter that the same sex couple could go to another UMC clergy that would perform the wedding, there will be some same sex couple that will a fit about being refused..