How To Kill A Game - The Tragedy of Marvel's Avengers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
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Earth’s Mightiest Heroes have starred in dozens upon dozens of video games in the last four decades. The iconic web-slinger’s first interactive adventure dates back to the Spider-Man action game released on the Atari 2600 in 1982, for example. That same decade also saw The Hulk and Captain America migrate to the world of gaming. However, an actual Avengers game would not hit the market until Data East shipped its arcade beat ‘em up Captain America and the Avengers in 1991. A range of mobile games, crossover titles, and LEGO-branded experiences have since allowed players to assemble their favorite heroes, yet no title was expected to capture the weight of being an Avenger quite like 2020’s Marvel’s Avengers.
Alongside Marvel Games, developer Crystal Dynamics and publisher Square Enix unveiled Marvel’s Avengers during E3 2019, making promises that engendered high hopes for the quality of the project. Free and regular post-launch content updates counted among the selling points, as did the insistence that “pay-to-win scenarios” would have no place in the final product. Within approximately one year of the Marvel’s Avengers release on PC and consoles, Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix sat on the receiving end of furious backlash for backtracking on both promises.
Platform-exclusive content, performance issues, and unwanted revisions to the core systems further compounded the negative discourse that long plagued Marvel’s Avengers. These shortcomings and myriad others hurt Square Enix’s bottom line, too, even in a year where Final Fantasy 7 Remake managed to exceed sales expectations. While Crystal Dynamics’s commitment to improving the live-service occasionally bore fruit, some of the studio’s efforts seemed exemplary of taking one step forward and two steps back.
This is the tragedy of Marvel’s Avengers.
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i love hearing "ball deodorant" with your heavy baritone
I remember looking at this game while my little brother played it and was like tf? what is with all the grind like what the hell for???
The worst thing about this game is how it helped kill the success of the Guardians of the Galaxy game, which was shockingly great.
I had a weird feeling about the Guardians game and bought the day it came. Weird cause I don’t buy games day one and I saw now trailers for it. Was just exploring the Xbox store, but there was something that drew me to it.
I ended up experiencing a surprisingly thoughtful story about grief and overcoming trauma and hurt. I actually cried a couple times, cause how real and and sincere the game was. Yes it’s fun as hell and super funny but dealing with the pain of the past was beautiful. I recommended it to everyone and no one seemed to care. A lot of reviews called it average, just for it to win best narrative that year. I’m so grateful I gave it a chance. It’s a game that will stick with me for a long time
Reminds me of how the Han Solo movie was poisoned by the last Jedi
The guardians game worried me a little bit due exactly to avengers but it turned out to be one of the best games I’ve played this year
What about the people who actually didn't like the gameplay that was shown? Not all people turned there heads because of how Marvel's Avengers was handled 😑
@@kos-mosshion2027 I'm sure there were some. It wasn't revolutionary but it was much better than its sales suggest.
I never understood why they didn't model the heroes after their actual comic book characters if they weren't going with the movie actors. Seemed an odd choice.
They were trying to find the middle path between the comic book interpretations and the mcu versions.
That would be an effective artist choice. This was about appealing to the largest audience.
Nando v Movies put it best. It looks like the MCU, but not enough like the MCU to really feel like the MCU, but also not distinct enough from the MCU to truly feel like its own thing.
They probably saw what happened with Volition's Agents of Mayhem and said to themselves "this cartoon look doesn't sell".
@@adnanasif9538 they failed
The "Game as a Service" and "Looter Shooter" killed this game for me. You could have make a RPG game like Final Fantasy series, a Sandbox game like Just Cause, or an action game like Tomb Raider. And yet they decided to make the uninspired concept that only predates their fanbase's money and time.
The major red flag on live service games is the moment you see “numbers” when you deal damage. RPG elements on games that aren’t RPG are here to artificially slow down gameplay, force you to grind and offer boost as mtx.
Gotham Knights is about to be in Avengers path.
Yep. I learned that from Destiny. If its all about grinding up percentages and isn't an rpg where you can decide what your character is trying to achieve, it can fuck off.
Iron man game like the arkham games would've been huge
If the game had just been strictly a singleplayer action-adventure game just like Marvel's Spider-Man,, it likely would have been very solid. And then they could make sequels that introduced an expanded roster of Avengers. Instead they decided to double down and focus on the multiplayer component which was ultimately the games worst point.
All Speculation
I wish they made it with full focus on the online aspect. This could be something so cool as there are literally no online marvel PC games like this. They should've gone full city of heroes
@@rihasanatrofolo2472 That would've been dope
Having a large group of heroes, really lends itself more to multiplayer though.
@@silentsaturn7604 I'd say just having many choices of who and how to play the campaign or each character have their own campaign is preferable to MP.
The game just screams "corporate" to me. It never felt like a product designed to be fun, engaging and satisfying for its customers base. It was designed exclusively to make the corporations behind it a bunch of money. In other words... SOULLESS. No wonder people didn't stick around for very long.
Tbh that sums up AAA games in general. It's less about providing an enjoyable, memorable and exciting gaming experience for players and more about money. Lots of it. What players want is no longer a factor. Battle passes, gambling mechanics and pay to win has dominated the market. It cant even be said to encourage repeat playthroughs or keeping a consistent population in online play while classics such as Halo and COD4 had a massive player base for years without having to pay anything after the initial purchase price.
Indie developers deserve our money and time far more. They actually seem to care about player experience. I personally think this is why farming sims are gaining more popularity but is it too much to ask to have a fun shooter that doesn't heavily lean into gambling mechanics instead of immersive gameplay?
In this market? Yeah. The only positives I see are that high quality game engine technologies are becoming more accessible and experienced developer are leaving AAA studios do to the corporate experiences they had there and starting something on their own. It should increased the likelihood of immersive gaming experiences we may see in the future
When they announced the voice actors cast I knew something wasn't right lol, i mean their work is just perfect but seeing how they focused more in bringing big names , I knew what was the main of us of the game
It felt like the most middle-ground game of all the middle-ground games, in every respect. Imagine making a looter-shooter game featuring iconic super heroes who gain more powers by looting dead enemies. Imagine playing as Tony Stark and then not building your gear yourself but instead going through some mooks you just pummeled to dust and finding some gear pieces that are supposedly better than what you came up on your own, being supersmart and all. How embarrassing. Or the Hulk. Dude's only thing is that he gets stronger the angrier he gets. But I guess a pair of nice new gauntlets will also increase his powers.
@@HenkkaArtGames leaving the middleground means making these characters more "realistic". This means they would play by how they actually are described. At that point i would rather it not be an Avengers single player game. i would want a game for each character with gameplay that actually matches the characters. Black widow would play like hitman mixed with metal gear/splinter cell and batman, hulk would play like prototype, iron man would play like a fleshedout anthem, captain america might work like a less stylish devil may cry beat-em-up(?) Or maybe just batmam. I dont think you can put stuff like this in a single game and make it work.
For me it was the lack of villains. Idc how many heroes or costumes are in the game if i still have to fight A.I.M. Over and over again, and only 2 bosses taskmaster and abomination. Even just changing the skins to hydra soldiers and robots would’ve been better.
and the MC was a not liked character that is a Mr Fantastic ripoff
Meanwhile Spider-Man is out there fighting against more than 6 villains (including DLC) with just the help of his gf, student, and a cop that is probably going to be the next villain
@@Revkor she isn't a mr. fantastic rip-off(can he shapeshift, grow and shrink like ant-man?[real questions]).... they just use her like him until she needs to 'flex' on something big...
i learned about her powers from a youtube vid. this game did all the characters dirty(story where?)..... it's like they didn't know what they wanted to make.
also, i like kamala... i knew of her and dante from the avengers cartoon.....
@@caliginousmoira8565 sorry I don't marvel needs to clean house and do somethign more orignal.
@@Revkor we live in an age where anyone can pitch an idea.... give them something
Ultimately, the lesson from Marvel's Avengers is to not do things half-measure. If you want to make a single player narrative game, do so. If you want to make a co-op looter shooter/brawler, do so. But commit to a core idea instead of flip-flopping between two or multiple ideas. As a single player narrative experience, the game just wasn't engaging with a very by the numbers plot. As a looter game, the level design and variety was simply shit for replayability, and calling the loot lackluster would be an understatement. The fact that the loot you grinded your ass off doesn't even change your appearance is just one of the most baffling decisions I've seen in any premium game ever. I can excuse that in a free to play game like Netmarble's Marvel Future Fight, but that's a freaking mobile game, not a full-priced AAA game.
One of the more heartbreaking disappointments in gaming for me. You can tell CD really cared about the game they were making but inexperience and corporate mandates really brought it down.
one thing i noticed with the story is that it felt like 2 games, some missions felt straight out of a single player open world game, and others felt like a looter shooter game, this changed with the dlc story modes like kate bishop, hawkeye and black panther where all those missions felt straight out of a looter shooter. but it is clear the game was going to be different but they changed it to a looter shooter to cash in on the ip, it's a shame cause this game had so much potential.
That's what happens when you pull people from half a dozen studios with no direction or vision.
How shocking that a DLC which came out months upon months upon months later due to covid would feel like they were a self contained stories....
Its clear that they were stories done to put new characters into the game, instead of forcing you to run back through the main story every time they brought in a DLC character....DLC characters which were FREE......
But imbeciles can feel free to keep crying about MTX that you can use to specifically but a costume and were only used for costumes...Which have zero stats or effects....It is hilarious though watching people cry about not having 6,725 costume options.....
Avengers biggest problem is the lack of endgame variety and only the endgame mission variety...Im not an imbecile so I get that a global pandemic likely screwed alot of plans to get DLC out quicker.
@@lutherheggs451 😂😂😂
@@lutherheggs451 I've never seen anybody cope the way you just did, it was almost as if you were giving a performance or something
Meanwhile, Eidos Montreal's Guardians Of The Galaxy ended up being one of my favorite games of last year. It's flarking fantastic.
It doesn’t make up for all the damage Square Enix did to many titles. We didn’t need a realistic Tomb Raider game. It’s Tomb Raider....you fight vampire angels and have super powers and your evil doppelgänger. Deus Ex pre order was an industry embarrassment. Square Enix went cash grab and destroyed many favorite IPs THEN SOLD THEM OFF FOR MONKE JPEGS!
but I’m glad you enjoyed your US Military Propaganda Marvel Game.
@@xCobraCommanderx Tomb Raider is amazing, same with Deus Ex.
@@xCobraCommanderx based
@@AnonymousAnonposter Nel.
@@rh4709 the studio made the games. Square implemented the cash grab. That's the distinction he is trying to point out to you.
This should have been a license to print money if it had been handled correctly but square enix really got too greedy
I think games, like this one, should stop using skill points grinding. They're heroes already, so technically they're already full power from the get go, not some training newcomers who still feeling out their powers/skills. Instead they should have focused on gears/weapons upgrade and not level grind. Releasing new mission pack and maps should be the focus, for more replayability. Partnering it with destructible environment and epic boss fights.
Cept Ms Marvel she was a noob
How would them "focusing on gears/weapons upgrade" be any different from what they've already done? They literally got gear loot for Hulk's bones, because that's how ridiculous an upgrade system for some of these characters is. And if you make it so they're on their full power, they'll have no challenge, Hulk and Thor will just breeze through everyone.
The truth is each of these characters works differently, you can't just make all of them overpowered or nerfed. What works for one, doesn't work for others. If you put them all in the same level, what point is there in having completely different characters available?
@@radrno7 That's where difficulty tweeks are for. They could have the skills unlocked but by adjusting the difficulty it would invalidate all their OPness since they can't 1 shot enemies. They could also make the skills have cooldowns so they can't spam it, or point system where they can only use it when a certain number of enemies were defeated. By simply adjusting health of the enemies or adjusting their numbers, coupled with damage being capped by gears, will make skills unlocked have minimal impact. Yeah you could use hulk smash or Thor's thunder but it deals less damage because of the gear level and/or enemy health. You could make a hack and slash game with all of the cool skills unlocked and be challenging by simple difficulty tweeks. Also although all of the skills are unlocked it's not like you couldn't limit the number of skills slots so you could make a certain mission needs these sets of skills or trying out new combo. But by making it grind makes them less of a hero and more of a newbie.
eh it was fine for Marvel Heroes. but you could easily replace 'skill points' with 'synergy points' as your teams work together.
I guess tony never upgraded from the mk1 🤷🏻♂️
It's all about greed. I'm sure Sony wanted money from Spider-Man games, the difference is that they know their audience and let Insomniac do what they wanted to do and delivered one of the best single player games of the generation, getting a lot of sales in the process but most importantly, a lot of praise and good reviews and an excellent reputation. Square in the other hand just wanted to cash on the craze for Avengers and demanded a looter game with no character at all. Wanting sales is not bad, but you have to deliver a quality product to your customers.
Sony aren't doing so well with GT7 though. Definitely ripping off their audience. This may be my last PlayStation and I've had them all.
@@smash461986 They've fixed the microtransaction problem like two months ago brother.
@@smash461986 SO what your saying is, you likely don't have a PS at all any maybe never actually had...LMFAO this may be the last PlayStation is literally he dumbest thing I've read just today LMFAO...The MTX were never that big a deal to begin with, but that was dealt with months ago, nor is GT even close to their biggest selling franchises..
@@MavihsLH And they secretly update it to make it worse again. Which is a very Activision move from their part.
yeaaah i don't think they care that much about reviews and praise versus money and sales.
Imagine a timeline where all these games like this were actually released and made to just be good instead of a live service cash grab piece of shit? I'd have played it. The past few years I just don't buy or play a new release until well after its released to see what kind of skin deep micro transaction mess of a train wreck it is. Games industry gets no money from me unless it's a good, finished product. I do not fear missing out
Well said. These are my thoughts exactly. It's crazy why people still pre order in this generation of back to back shitty games.
I dont get why people buy call of duty every year and then complain that it's garbage and then buy it again the next year like why??!! I genuinely want to know.
Or like the people that pre order battlefield knowing it's going to be an unfinished, money grabbing shit show just like the last battlefield released.
All of it just work's - believe me ,
Hey, I agree with you but there are a few gems out there, specifically Elden Ring. Mint gem of a game that was hyped up ever since it was first shown, and I don't regret pre-ordering at all, unlike Cyberpunk-2077
@@Mampato101 Elden ring is amazing definitely. But thats the problem. One game out of how many, every few years. And yup cyberpunk was the last game I'll ever pre order lol
@@justcallmpeter I don't know either, but I enjoy watching Angry Joe bitch about it every year. I relish in his anguish.
I gotta say this channel produces one of the best if not the best gaming documentaries in all media and it deserves at least 10 times the views the subs and I hope it gets there sooner than later
I remember being so hyped for this game. My expectations were very high. They had a golden opportunity with one of the biggest IPs on the planet and they flushed it down the toilet. Why does this keep happening? Corporate greed keeps seeping its ugly fingers into the creative process. If they had focused on making co-op-centric missions structured like GTA Online heists with varied environments, enemies, and specific player roles that felt cinematic and fun to play, it could've been an amazing and engaging product. To me, that's what the A-Day mission looked like it was going to provide at the original reveal. Add free to play on top of that, and it could've contended with Fortnite given the global popularity of Marvel. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
Very good video!
My problem with Avengers is that I only wanted a story driven action game and not a Online RPG. As soon as these elements were introduced at the beginning of the game, I immediately thought that this is a mistake.
And enemies were damage sponges.
@@artimuos903 ong 🤷🏽 but my main issue was Hulk taking GAMMA DAMAGE 🤦🏽
@@artimuos903 Tell me about it. It takes entirely too long to neutralize certain enemies.
@@ADG.Est.1988 depends on your build. Need to up your damage if that's what is happening
Such wasted potential indeed for this avengers game that its just sad because this game could've been really great and badass.
They put in game monetization over a quality game. That ultimately cost them.
the mobile version was fine I mean lots of people still play it and it's a standard mobile mmo with Ironman and others
@JanoschNr1 ,👍
The story mode is great, the live service overshadowed it and created the stigma.
The game has great quality, it isn’t a pay to win, they just sell costumes. Sadly this is the proof of how wrong people are about the game, thinking it doesn’t have quality and it’s a cash grabbing. This is one of the less cash grabbing live services out there. No battle passes, no limited time cosmetics, only options clothing for your character.
@@robkinney1974 you couldn’t be more wrong, the game has a bad reputation, and your opinion about it is the proof.
15:56 GVMERS said it’s a great avengers game. Crystal Dynamics made a great game ruined by the ambition of Square Enix for getting into the trendy business.
They just sell clothes, other games sell battle passes for $30. For bein a cash grabber they are doing a terrible job lol.
The live service is bland, yes, but the heart of the game, the story mode is great.
This video never talks about it being a bad game, it talks about it’s misfortune and bad management.
I remember that E3 Presentation, I already had major red flags for the title raised because the entire presentation seemed to be about telling fans what WASNT going to be in it.
"A buggy live service game where the only thing that regularly updates is the marketplace"
This is the summary of Marvel Avengers
From the get-go, it looked like it was going to be a flop. The reveal revealed the future.
It was telling that a lot of gaming outlets said the preview was rough. They tend to be more positive since they want invites to press previews and even most of them didn't have many good things to say.
@@TOM7952 for real. AAA multiplayer lootershooter with a Disney IP is ripe for ass kissing.
Covid didn't help. I suspect scaling it for remote work added to that obnoxious budget!
@@MoeFokah COVID had nothing to do w/ how shitty it looked at the reveal.
@@MoeFokah What's the excuse of games that flopped before the pandemic then?
We have not been getting bad games all of a sudden and during the pandemic. It's just another walking stick used to save face
In what world would *newcomers* to a game be frustrated at getting "skill points too quickly"? That was such a BS explanation and always will be.
Gotta love how laughable some of these excuses are that companies come up with fro damage control.
This world, in which gamers constantly complain about games being too easy.
@@Turok1134 But nobody was complaining about it being too easy when they made that change. They were complaining about basically almost everything else lol.
@@Turok1134 they added xp boosters not one month after throttling the xp. If the community asked for the leveling to slow down, then why release the xp boosters at all (for actual money, by the way)
Yeah that one always puzzled me as well. The corporate types really couldn’t even lie well.
"I'm getting to many skill points, I'm confused" said nobody ever
I couldn't help thinking about how Marvel Heroes did things so much better years ago (I still miss that game)
Specifically:
Lots of characters, and choice of which to play. With a universe with hundreds of characters it's pathetic that Avenger's only had a handful.
Each zone had a different enemy faction, which other villains popping up as well. Having Avengers just about a single faction with limited villains was ridiculous.
I look at Avengers and all I see i plain laziness. They had a wealth of lore they could use and they just couldn't be bothered.
To think that game was shutdown down to give way for this one infuriates me. The executives at Marvel entertainment greed doesn't help as well. They could have renewed the license and let the 2 products exist as each their own thing. But nope...one or the other. This just makes me cautious purchasing this kind of media from them. Next time they try a new game with a different studio, they probably will demand a complete shutdown of the current game disregarding time and money invested by players.
That was a mobile game right? I remember playing that game it was fun to forced nonsense didn't make it far but I miss those moments
@@Legion849 No, it was a full proper PC game.
Can't compare a mobile game to this and all of the motion capture and design and time it takes to get the powers and characters right all in one game is amazing and it's fun to play it just gets boring after you beat it
For all of its issues, Marvel Heroes got a lot of things right. I had so much fun with that game. Shame what happened to it.
The character model thing never bothered me, it was the extreme lack of content and meaningful loot that made me never touch the game again after I finished the campaign.
Yeah, the character model thing was way overblown. The rest of the game just wasn’t good in my opinion.
The only problem i had with the character models was Hulk's default skin being all bruised and purple because he has a healing factor so that's stupid af.
The focus of loot in an Avengers game looks stupid. Heroes don't go around grinding for the next chest or armpiece, this just feels dumb. Ultimately you had to learn how to play with each character but the payoff for doing so was just not there. You didn't get any incentive to learn to play as the Hulk or Thor. Any hero would be fine, as their power level and damage output is equivalent. In my opinion, they should have invested in differences. Some can do one stuff, others can do other stuff like damage type for example. The way it's designed just looks like 'whatever, just grind epic gear'.
Not to mention you could only play the campaign once at first
The campaign for lost future and Hawkeye definitely was done good.
Lmao I love how the lesson that the suits at Sony learned wasn't that the industry is oversaturated with live service shit, but that they need to pick developers more suited to making MORE live service games. Cool
When you have games like Fortnite, CoD, and the other live service games making a shit ton of money with low effort then it makes sense that Sony thinks that all it needs to do is follow the same formula.
Honestly, I blame all the people that bought the game and continue to pay $20+ on skins in games for the way the industry is now following the same lead.
hahahah 4real
@@andreivaldez2929 How is Fortnite low effort? Tell me you never played the game without telling me you never played the game
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 fornite is overrated lmao
@@NeroLeMorte its not overrated you just under appreciate its success
What makes it worse is the graphics animation and combat is good but you fight the exact same 4 enemys theres nothing to do and no rewards for doing it.
The narrator for these videos never disappoints! It makes it more entertaining for me to watch.
hes great, love his voice
And that is why you NEVER buy a game when it just has "potential" ... buy a game if it is actually GOOD and it is good NOW.
Now you need to wait 3-6 months before you buy because you have to wait and see whether the devs put in the cash shop and other things they omitted at launch and from reviews.
The real tragedy here is Deus Ex getting canned because of this crap.
Yes - and no. Avengers game bombed so hard that Square Enix sold both the developer of Deus Ex AND the brand to publisher who develops single player games still (Embracer). Deus Ex didn't so much die, but faked death in order to get out of dodge and seek asylum elsewhere where it can thrive.
@@PenguinDT Which is pretty on-brand for the Deus Ex universe. Paul Denton would've absolutely done this.
@@PenguinDT yeah. All things considered, Avengers bombing was for the best.
@@PenguinDT Didnt they sell them for the NFTs? Thats what I heard
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 Yes. They wanted to invest into blockchain and needed to sell off some assets to do it. However, their Marvel junk being total profit losers meant their western studios and their IPs would be those assets.
Man, this game could of really done so GOOD! It could of been REALLY popular. How do you fumble the bag THIS HARD with that much Star power working on it. 🤦🏾♂️
A combination of greed, laziness and being almost completely out of touch with what the fans want
5:55 I never thought I needed to hear someone with an amazing voice say "crop preserver ball deodorant" in my life, but I'm very glad I did.
I can't believe Deus Ex 5 died for this.
Deus ex is mid tho
And Hitman 2 CGI budget.
@@penpen2626 Wrong
I never played the game, but I distinctively recall not liking the character models. Their costumes were like the film versions, but they didn’t look like the actors, which make them look “off.” Instead they could have made their own costumes to show that it was not based on the films. Furthermore, the men’s faces all look the same (same nose, eye, mouth, jaw line etc), but what changed was the hair format and color.
My only gripe with this video is it repeatedly claims expectations were high for Avengers. Unless you were a Squeenix board member, all of the problems were obvious in the first trailer. At best, players were hopeful it couldn't possibly be as bad as it seemed in spite of all available evidence.
That first game play trailer looked like a PS3 game
With so much money you'd expect them to be able to make proper games...
Unfortunately you can have all the money in the world but if you don't have the proper talent and dedication it will all mean nothing
@@rikkisan1 yeah...
Whenever I look at this game, I always think of several things I would change to make it better. First off would be not making it a live service game. I would've made it a Bioware (when they were good.)-like RPG where you get to pick which Avengers to take with you on missions (With some missions locking in certain avengers since they're needed for a certain objective.). Similar to how Mass Effect does it. In addition, the gameplay will allow you to switch between them like how the FF7 Remake did. There would also be certain areas and secrets only certain Avengers can get, encouraging replicability of those missions. In addition, No loot system since the Avengers already have roles so a loot system would be redundant, More Avengers to pick from other then the six at launch (in addition, not making certain characters exclusive to other consoles.), and more villains to fight.
There's more I could've said, but those are the main things I would change.
I kinda feel like the big problem with The Avengers was that it wasn't built from the ground up to be its own game with a set of gameplay mechanics that help convey the feel of a Avengers comic book and/or film. The reason that Marvel's Spider-Man and even Guardians of the Galaxy did so well is because the games felt purpose built both mechanically and structurally around the characters they were working with. Spider-Man may have some elements of the Arkham games but only the elements that are compatible with the character and narrative. Guardians of the Galaxy may have some third person shooter elements but those elements are carefully shaped to conform to the audience's expectation based on the source material.
The goal really shouldn't be to take a non-gaming property (like a comic book character, film, or television show) and essentially distill it into a thin coat of paint you apply to the top of a established formula (like Mass Effect for example). To kinda put this in another context. I have seen a lot of Star Trek fans demand a Mass Effect style Star Trek game because they think it would be a perfect fit. The problem is that it really wouldn't. it would just feel like Mass Effect with a thin Star Trek coat of paint. It would be better for a developer to take bits and pieces of a lot of different games (as is the case in any art really) and build it all from the ground up to be a purpose built experience that is centered around conveying the property in a way that is true to itself.
@@startrekmike To be clear, I wasn't asking for the Avengers game to be exactly like a Bioware game. I was saying the Avengers game could've been something similar to it. Now there are some mechanics that could be taken out (I don't think "making choices that affect the story" or a dialogue tree are too necessary for this kind of game.) but the general idea could be there. Just add a few mechanics from different games (Like the character switching in FF7 Remake I referred to in my original comment.) and you migh tget a good Avengers game.
Honestly the level up and skills grinding makes no sense for these types of games, they're already superheroes and at their peak. Gears/weapons upgrade system would make more sense since they can be upgraded (Iron Man suit, Captain America's suit and shield, Thor's Stormbreaker etc) and more canon in MCU. A special skill or two from a new gear would be more appealing and damage/armor increase would be more satisfying than a myriad of skills. New mission packs and maps would also prolong and make the live service more appealing, especially missions that related to the Avengers movies.
A lot of what you said is in Firaxis upcoming game Midnight Suns.
@@kurtjustiniani1354
The upgrade system would really only work on gear based characters like Iron-Man. Superpowered individuals like Thor would require a completely different skill tree to work.
Imagine if Avengers game was made with SAME style as Guardians of the Galaxy game was made, we would've had TWO great Marvel based games that everyone would've loved to play, and imagine if they would've made X-Men game too with similiar systems, we would've gotten a THREE perfect games!
Now imagine if insomniac did a of them. 3 games that shit on all 3 imaginary games you listed xd
@@blackvalio4060 The wait would be way way too long though for them to be anywhere near the level of quality of their Spiderman game.
@@galanakagalactus903 waiting is not a problem is quality is the result. Sinply having something but its shit is not worth
@@galanakagalactus903 no it wouldn’t be long at all.
@@jemangedupain. who spilled salt in your coffee
Imagine sitting there in front of the camera and with a straight face say that all the worst of the worst design changes were due to player feedback. That's like next-level gaslighting right there.
Crystal Dynamics peaked with the Tomb Raider Legend trilogy. After that it's been a constant downhill chasing trends and lying to the customers' faces.
I feel like I might've made a good decision to drop this game, upon realize it got quite grindy, and repetitive really quick.
Doesn't help though that shortly after finishing up the main campaign, I went through the extra stories.
Ended up picking up this game last year since at the time, I needed some more games for my PS5, and saw a copy of the game on sale. And I recall wanting to try out Spider-Man whenever he ended up releasing.
It is a major shame since I remember being excited for the game. Alas, such potential can unfortunately go to waste
"Such potential", bruh, there is no "potential" - either the game is good or it isn't.
God, it's so frustrating seeing little kids these days buy bad games and expect devs to patch them later. I miss when games would ship out the door ready to go because patches were few, if any. Devs these days get complacent because people like you tell them that it's ok to release unfinished products and the lemmings will consume it anyway.
@@andreivaldez2929 OP is talking about their own experience with the game, not forgiving complacency, where the hell are you getting that? And yes, it is possible to have a nuanced opinion about any piece of media where you can believe that something has good aspects to it, despite being a failure on the whole. The story for the main campaign was very good, it is objectively the single most praised thing about the game. The decision to put loot drops and xp padding to sell xp boosters smells like a Square Enix decision, seeing as the developers promised they wouldn't do these things, and microtransactions have been a part of several of Square Enix's games. They released a racing game this year called Chocobo GP that's priced at $50 but needed all sorts of purchases like in game currency and a season pass just to be able to do anything besides race with your base options. They finally patched it a couple weeks ago to be _less_ predatory, but there's still plenty of grinding and pay to win mechanics at play.
Crystal Dynamics has a proven track record with Lara Croft, and Eidos Montreal made the great Guardians game without these problems, probably as a direct result of the backlash caused from this game. If they were _allowed_ to make a campaign mission-based single player story action game instead of focusing on extra monetization, it would have turned out a lot better than it did.
I don't like judging a book by its cover, but lately for these past few years, looks says it all. I was excited when they announced an Avengers game, but once I saw the gameplay trailer and the character design, I knew this game was going to be mediocre.
What’s really unfortunate is that we are never getting another game with these characters for a very long time. As bad as the game is I still had a ton of fun flying around as iron man and Thor or leaping over cars and punching bad guys as Captain America and Hawkeye. There’s something there that if they had a better environment to play around in I’d imagine the boring enemies and missions would have been bearable
Honestly this is why I’m worried about the Gotham Knights game. They took the Arkham games (traditionally single player aside from origins multiplayer mode) and made it a coop game. And are almost intentionally ruining it by trying to make each character feel unique because heaven forbid every character trained by Batman knows how to use a grapple gun.
How is the game bad if you had fun playing it that makes no sense
@@KidTrigger because having fun for an hour and then getting bored because there’s nothing new makes a game built as a live service bad? You can have fun in Red dead online or fallout 76 but if it can’t keep your attention for long because of its lack of content then it’s bad at its job of entertaining you for an extended period of time
Nice breakdown. I agree with the assessment that the games was good--the gameplay was engaging, and the teamwork aspect was my favorite part--but they mishandled everything else.
I played a bit of the campaign once - looks great, has some fun moments. A shame they felt the need (or rather, the greed) to make it focus on “live service” nonsense!
I think they tried to implement live service systems when they felt the game was going over budget and hard to fund.
So they thought this would help them since many players have the habit of blowing huge cash for cosmetics and other stuff.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Marvel's Avengers? No? I thought not. Its not a story that Square Enix and Crystal Dynamic would tell you...
Sony: "Is it possible to learn this power?"
@@SyamDaRos-EndoManno not from a good game.
It looks like this happens with a lot of games. It seems you have a great team of people who are amazing and passionate about their craft and their current project, but are pressured by higher ups to ruin the game with things like micro transactions for the sake of corporate greed.
You guys forgot to mention the bait-n-switched main story. It focuses heavily on Ms. Marvel, a character that no one cared or wanted in the first place.
What I hate about games today is this new trend of separating coop from campaign, making it a mode instead of incorporating it into the main campaign.
Co-op should always be like Halo, gears, divinity, baldurs gate.. And never like Avengers
“There will be no microtransactions”
Gamers: LIAR!!
It reminds me Activision with CTR remake
They should make a pvp mode and thanos dlc or something
Crystal Dynamics’ development process for this game is like when a parent is trying to cook a three course meal for a family gathering, but everyone showed up too soon, and they forgot to buy two essential ingredients so they keep throwing snacks at patrons hoping they won’t notice that there isn’t really going to be a decent dinner at all.
This game is the straw that broke the camel's back in regards to live service games ever being good.
It was one of those games that you just knew was going to be bad
The moment I saw the e3 2019 presentation, I could tell this wasn't going to be good. After seeing some beta gameplay, I was glad I didn't bother with it.
My biggest issue with this game is the ultra confusing single player. That little glove thing is hard to figure out. It’s hard to see if you’re continuing a story mission or going into a multiplayer mission.
When I first launched the game it took me to a hub area, no menu for campaign or multiplayer just a hub with a weird globe and no specification on what the hell I'm actually choosing to do. Just bombarded with 30 different things, like damn I just wanted to try the solo campaign but ended up uninstalling it because I couldn't find it.
When will companies realise people don't want live services? It's not just the microtransactions, the mere concept of live services affects the whole game design.
This game is an interesting mixed bag. Circulating the story around a B/C-list character was not what people wanted when playing the A-list characters are. The micro transactions surely didn’t help its rep. And obviously them licensing the likenesses of the actors from the films would have been costly.
Well considering you'd have fans bitching about why THEIR favorite character wasn't the focal point, I thought it interesting to use a lesser known hero that a casual like myself, who know nothing of Marvel beyond the movies, had never heard about. An up and coming hero aiming to join the famous group.
Better than hearing the same stories about the same precious few characters, in my view. Then again, my dream film is Ghost Rider vs. Betty White, so..........
I don't think you understand Marvel's strengths building from their comic book base if you think Ms Marvel is C-List, especially since at various points of comic book history, Iron Man was not topping the charts as a A-list character and frankly wasn't considered A-list until after the character's movie was a roaring success - hell, part of the reason the character was featured as block buster movie was because Marvel had sold off the rights to its A-List comic sales characters to places like Sony and Fox. Willing to bet Ms Marvel is about to take off with the character's new show on Disney+ too, that first episode was awesome and they found an actress who easily embodies the character in home life, let alone in a full production.
No, the problem with Marvel's Avengers storyline was that it's gameplay mechanics were at odds with the story they wanted to tell, unlike say ... Xmen Legends 1 and 2.
The thing is, people wanted the game to be about the Avengers, but instead it focuses on Ms. Marvel. And she's not an Avenger.
@@harlannguyen4048 She's literally an Avenger. She officially joined the team in All-New All-Different Avengers Vol 1 #3 in 2015. That's 616 canon. She doesn't detract from the experience, either, she adds to it. For all of the game's problems, she isn't one of them. Just because you can play as a stretchy Pakistani-American girl, it doesn't mean you don't get to play as some white guy again, or that you don't have the choice to play whatever character you want once the team is assembled.
One of my wife’s friends works for Crystal dynamics and we got to talking about the game for what he could discuss, I didn’t have the heart to tell him it looked like shit.
That's your opinion I disagree with it
I'll tell him for you lool
Looks pretty good tbh, not sure what you were expecting from a first gen beginning loot game
It actually looks good especially on ps5
this is the first time somebody told me that this game has a good single player campain. I didn't even knew what this game wants to be and just thought it's online pve only. In fact the single player mode is the only thing i'm interested in and to this day everything i heard was "this game sucks because of pay to win". Maybe grab a copy when it's on sale. The Guardians of the Galaxy game was fantastic from the start though.
If any game developer want to make a game base on comic super hero, If they cant make a game at the same level as Batman Arkham series or Marvel's Spider-Man series, DONT.
You have characters like Dr. Strange, Magneto, Silver Surfer, The Fantastic Four, Cyclops, and a Huge variety of cool and exciting characters across the whole Marvel franchise. And Crystal Dynamics decides to release Kate Bishop, and Black Panther to save the game...
Yes and Kamala Khan. It's all about pushing "The Message" than having a great and exciting game. Look at what's happening with the M-She-U now. They're using the success of all their earlier movies and heroes to push their woke agenda. Destroying legacy characters to embrace the new progressive ones.
Apart from doctor strange and the fantastic four non of the other characters you mentioned have been avengers in the comics
@@mickeymouse7726 And you can seriously tell me that this franchise would be limited only to Avengers members? If this game would have blown out, would even release villains as part of the roster.
On Marvel Heroes Omega you could play with Dr. Doom, Juggernaut, and other popular villains as well.
But even if you get that picky, among the extensive roster of the Avengers you have many, and many cooler characters.
Black Panther is cool.
Don't dare hate on *The Black Panther* 13:28 👈
What's wrong with you? 🤔
Marvels Avengers should have been a single player game like Marvels Guardians of the Galaxy. Square Enix insane greed doomed this game. Square Enix went to fail big time with other live service games like Babylons Fall, FF7 First Soldier and Outriders.
I'm genuinely surprised the plug hasn't been pulled on Marvel's Avengers yet. The game is on life support at this point.
5:25 well done. Sadness is captured
The Spider-Man exclusivity really killed my interest in the game. The idea alone of having platform exclusive characters in a cross-plat game is stupendously moronic. To only realize that after the fact (i.e after you dried the ink, cashed the checks) just proves that no one actually behind the decision really understood what it was they were doing.
Eventually I tried the game out when it came to Game Pass though. And yeah, it's pretty much just a rip off of Destiny starring The Avengers stunt doubles. Maybe next time someone should let Square Enix stick to their wheelhouse like Guardians of The Galaxy which was actually a good game.
They had such a dream team working on it and dropped the ball so hard for microtransactions
6:42 woolie and liam in the background! They were on the QA team for Tomb Raider
I’ve always said this would’ve been a solid game if it was just a single play game similar to Guardians of the Galaxy, if the single player had the focus and development that was given to microtransactions and multiplayer it would’ve been amazing
"... I feel like a fucking idiot..." - Yosuke Matsuda / Tobias Fünke
Story missions that progressed the story (when I played alone) were incredible. The field missions were disappointing and having Jarvis tell you of a loot box (cache) near by felt like a collectathon nightmare. This game shouldn't have let us down in that way.
"How to kill" Implies the game ever lived
The intro is just GREAAAT 💜💜💜
Deus Ex died for this, that's the tragedy.
I'm not gonna lie, I jumped into this game a few days ago from scratch and it is WAY better than I remembered it to be.
Bro I kid u not I was playing it and I love the game it’s fun just beating things up etc. apart from bugs idky it gets so much hate. There’s things to improve on but I guess it’s cuz I got it for $8 so I’m not too mad, but overall I’m enjoying it
I recently played it and it's still garbage
@@Ecool27got it for the same price too so it's fine. But I would never buy it full price or even $20.... Same thing with Star Wars BF2
@@theworthlessdrone5220 looking back I still enjoyed the game but what turned me off a bit was the grind for the certain sets I needed and certain stat combos, days on top of days of grinding for one piece isn’t rewarding once u get it compared to so many other Grindy type games
I recall saying on reddit that I wasn't interested in this because it reeked of games as a service/pay to win mechanics. I quickly got a reply from someone saying they promised it wouldn't be games as a service and after the release I just shook my head that people still fall for the marketing hype. There's a little hope with the recent Starfield reveal where people quickly locked on to Todd Howards BS about the game having 1,000 unique planets. They still don't respect customers. Then again people are spending money on the Diablo game so maybe gamers deserve it to some extent.
Yeah right, almost everytime is the studio's fault and not the predatory business strategy of their publisher... Yeah right... Great video as always!
I remember when I saw the trailer for this game at E3 I was excited for it until they later announce it was going to be a life service game I said oh they screwed it up and I never played it I honestly was hoping I was wrong and it was successful this is one time I hate to be right
To let you know how bad some aspects of the game are, I play as two characters. I think there are ten in the game. I have been farming once piece with both characters for a least a year. Religiously. Still haven’t gotten it
And I’m used to farming and looters but this is ridiculous lol
That's not a bad aspect, you just unlucky
This channel and content reminds me of the types of content you'd see on PBS. Kinda cool actually
I had so much clips of thjs game where the maps wouldn’t load in or the game would just really bug out the characters
The biggest insult of this games was that it wasnt even an Avengers game, but a game about Ms. Marvel, with the Avengers merely as the supporting cast.
Eh that's not 100% true. The story was about the avengers from ms Marvel's perspective. If I remember correctly, she becomes an avenger too.
@@therupoe
Except over half of the story is played and focused on her, even when the Avengers are all lined up. It's ok to introduce a new character, but patronize us with her when we just want the titular characters... that's a no-no.
Guardians of The Galaxy was the game this should've been.
Smh if only that game had co-op.
Gog was meh
4:10, pain thunder got mentioned
The all powerful snail is always the winner
Eight year old boys would love this game. Don't let them play it though or they will turn out a teenage cringe lord.
Your comment makes you come off as a cringe lord
It's okay for people (especially kids) to like entertainment that make them happy. We're talking about superheros here.
It's literally free for me and I still don't want to play it, that says everything.
They did show in the trailer that the avengers lay down their iconic items in mourning like they have given up, so that told me not to expect much from this game.
I still find it hard to believe that they managed to botch one of if not the most well known IP in this generation. I'm pissed about it.
I love this channel, but I think that the only decent video I've seen about this game will remain Whitelight's review. I feel like Marvel's Avengers has been such an outstanding case study of live-services done wrong that any real analysis went out the window for the purpose of bashing live-services as a genre. And a lot of players, when talking about this game, had a really hard time to make a distinction between what they personally WANT and what could WORK. People want more games like the recent Spider-Man games and the Arkham series, which is fair, but the Avengers game didn't fail because it wasn't one of those.
In my opinion, these problems are the reason why so many people spread INSANE takes like the idea that the singleplayer campaign was the best part of the game. The campaign is an overstretched, cringeworthy, rubbish, narratively disjointed tutorial. In term of presentation and production value, it does contain the most polished moments of the game. But the game was clearly balanced around team fight and you will only get to see the full potential of your characters by leveling them up in the online content. And by full potential, I don't mean maxing out stats, I'm talking about unlocking all the abilities and combos that make the fighting actually enjoyable.
Another indicator that people know too little about this game ? Their reaction when Square's CEO said that Crystal Dynamics was a wrong fit ! Because it was ! Marvel's Avengers has been designed without any real consideration for level design, traversal gameplay and the concept of gameplay loops. Things that are crucial for a live-service. If I asked anyone to compare the way you travel across a level in Warframe or Destiny 2 versus what you see in Marvel's Avengers, I doubt that they would say "It's equally terrible cuz all live-services be bad!". The maps often feel like flat squares with obstacles placed here and there. Nothing to stimulate your curiosity, nothing to learn and optimize (like mastering the mechanics of weight and inertia to travel efficiently). There are very few different types of objectives and again, not very stimulating. Also, the lack of polish on traversal gameplay is the reason why I wasn't surprised when people reported Spider-Man to be less agile than his Fortnite version, lmao!
It's more than understandable to distaste live-services but I've witnessed so much misinformation and incompetence when talking about this game, just for the sake of dunking on the latest AAA cash-grab that it became hard to find useful criticism and feedback about the game. If the game became uninteresting to some (a lot of) people for being a live-service, that's fine. But that shouldn't overshadow the fact that, aside from being another greedy live-service, Avengers was a terrible live-service at that. And for any attempt to profit on this model, major publishers continuously overlook the talent and experience involved in making successful, long-lasting live-service games like Warframe.
I remember reading a comment saying that the live-service model kinda made sense for the Avengers, since having a game that is supposed to grow in content over the years, welcome new characters and experience different phases would be reminiscent in many ways of comic-books' style of storytelling. Which I agree with. And it definitely made more sense to me than expecting players to buy 12 different games fo follow a saga, MCU style. Had this game been executed correctly, I definitely think it could have won an audience over, being a live-service. But this game is flawed beyond patches and updates.
Cool
This was a lot of typing to be wrong. Go make your own video don’t try and use this one to stand on your incredibly wrong soapbox.
This was a lot of typing to be wrong. Go make your own video don’t try and use this one to stand on your incredibly wrong soapbox.
a new ultimate alliance would have been infinitely better
The snap effect on the games title really got to me hahahahahahaha
My man with that voice you should become one of those guys that speak in gameplay showcases
Never forget the great Ultimate Alliance Series - best Marvel Games ❤️
Me and my brother put countless hours into those and Xmen Legends
what about Lego marvel superheroes,
When I heard the main character wasn't going to be an Avenger and Kamala Khan was going to be the main character I tapped out. I'm not interested in that character at all and combined with the loot brawler aspect it was just not enough for me to invest time into the game when there are so many other good alternatives vying for my money, time and attention.
That was my thought. How you going to tease basically an MCU game and then drop a no name character as the main??
square saved their bacon with the guardians of the galaxy game. too bad they didn't give the same love and attention to the avengers game. it could've been so amazing if not for corporate greed
They didn't save nuffin. Games flopped.
Hear Ball Preserver said in such a stately way was super weird.
as someone who has over 700 hours in this game and still plays to this day, this hurts to watch. Still have hope for the future of the game though.
Goddamn
howwww?!
@@good-tn9sr tbh this game has some of the best gameplay I've ever experienced. Same guy who designed the combat for God of war
@@spiritwavesage best combat?? You mean that clunkfest gameplay?🤣 The gameplay couldn't even entertain my 10 year old and he loves marvel characters.
I hope those managing Sqaure Enix get what they deserve. They expected so much revenue from the western studios even though they were succuessful games. They are now investing in the volatility of crypto and hope it crashes and burns for them. It's just too bad that they are tarnishing the legacy of Square Enix.
Its great that Crystal Dynamics and Eidos have gotten out, they can now flourish. Excited to see another Deus Ex.
Square Enix downfall was the moment they decided to make western style games.
Honestly to be fair SquareEnix has been terrible ever since they merged and became SquareEnix. That's just my opinion. Final Fantasy was suffering long before they decided to play high risk high reward with western developers.
I'm really just waiting for cd or eidos to make new tomb raider :3
The game could still be saved with a little retooling... Sadly those in charge have no vision of what their customers want.
The first and last missions in the game where you switched between the characters was great but the rest of the time you are locked into one character and the game just felt stale.
First of all, great video! I do agree that the developers have made huge mistakes with some decisions such as the sony spider-man deal, however I wouldn't say this game is dead. I still play it to this day and I believe that the developers are legitmately trying to fix everything and exploring the boundaries of what works and what doesn't. Maybe it's the "fan-boy faith" in me talking but I believe that if the game is given enough time, we could see a redemption similar to what No Man Sky went through after 6 years since it's release. Supposedly the developers are going to focus more on gameplay driven content instead of adding more story content which gives me faith that this game can improve in the coming years. I really hope that we never see any exclusivity deal in the future since that really kills and breaks the player-base balance between consoles and PC.
Don't text him, it's a scam!
@@UrQuietGamer I thought it would be a scam, thanks for the heads up!