I-Team: Car Repair Critic Shakes Up Body Shops, Insurance Companies
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- By Randy Travis, FOX 5 I-Team
Aired Apr 15 2019
KENNESAW, Ga. (FOX 5 Atlanta) - A fraud complaint filed with Georgia's Insurance Commissioner reveals a bitter dispute between a chain of body shops and an independent appraiser critical of some of their repair work.
At the heart of all this: people afraid to take their newly-repaired cars back on the road. People like Pam Skinner.
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"I was just like pretty upset," she admitted.
In October 2018, Skinner's Nissan Pathfinder was rear-ended. It was clearly the other guy's fault; their insurance company paid for the repairs. Pam took her car to Classic Collision of Kennesaw.
Classic Collision runs a string of body shops in Georgia and Alabama. They came up with an estimate of $7,773.19 for Pam's SUV. Two months later, they said it was ready. To Pam, it looked as good as new.
But Pam knew the insurance company also owed her some additional money -- called Diminished Value -- because accidents affect the overall value of the vehicle even after it's been repaired. She didn't know how much to ask for, so she contacted an expert recommended by a friend.
David Montanaro runs Southern Automotive Consultants. A former body shop owner himself, he's quickly become a thorn in the side of repair shops and insurance companies by publicly criticizing the quality of the work.
"A structurally-misaligned car doesn't drive right," he explained. "It's dangerous."
In Pam's case, Montanaro took apart the Pathfinder to check Classic Collision's repair. He criticized the body shop for not replacing the back lift gate and quarter panel originally damaged, instead the shop spending 18 hours repairing the damaged metal.
Montanaro told Pam her car should have been totaled by her insurance company and might not protect her in a future accident. She says she's too scared to drive her car.
"I thought insurance companies, when somebody hits you, they're supposed to make you whole," she said. "And I have not been made whole."
"It saves a tremendous amount of money to fix these parts versus replace them," Montanaro explained.
Montanaro filed his own complaint against Classic Collision, a collusion complaint with the US Attorney General, claiming some body shops cut corners on repairs in hopes of getting a steady stream of future business from the insurance company. The Justice Department would not comment.
Hoping to prove his point, Montanaro secretly recorded his phone call with the manager of Classic Collision in Kennesaw. They were talking about that original estimate for Pam Skinner's car, the one Montanaro insisted should have gotten a new quarter panel and lift gate. The manager -- who once worked for Montanaro -- says his bosses turned down his request for those parts.
"I got all the bigwigs involved," Ian Morris says on the recording. "I said it needs a quarter (panel) needs a (lift) gate. They said Ian, it doesn't matter what you want."
No one from Classic Collision would talk to us on camera or make Ian Morris available for an interview. In a series of written statements, a Classic Collision spokesman said the repairs in Pam's case were "within industry standards and the least invasive." Classic Collision has since offered to replace the parts, even suggesting paying a different body shop to do the actual work. Pam Skinner said no. The company claims they've been targeted for "a shakedown."
Classic Collision filed a complaint to the Georgia Insurance Commissioner that Montanaro was "operating as an adjuster without a license" and illegally negotiating settlements with insurance companies." Their attorney says the independent appraiser is needlessly frightening their customers.
Montanaro fired off a reply, denying the accusations and telling the Insurance Commissioner that he had actually found five cars repaired by various Classic Collision locations that had an "inferior and unsafe 'repair' and then delivered back to their unsuspecting customers." The company denies any unsafe repairs.
The Insurance Commissioner cleared Montanaro of any wrongdoing with his business. Since then, Classic Collision has filed a fraud complaint. The Insurance Commissioner won't comment on that.
Montanaro told the Insurance Commissioner his critical reports convinced Classic Collision or the insurance company to later buy back cars from the customer.
FULL STORY: www.fox5atlanta...
Y'all left out the biggest part of the argument. The body shop can only fix what the insurance company is willing to pay for. I write estimates all the time but the insurance companies come in behind me and shave it down and argue that's all they're paying. I'll get the customer involved but still nothing changes. Body shops aren't going put $7,000 into a job if the insurance is only willing to pay $5,500 they can't they'd go out of business.
Right on!
Not to mention customers begging for help with the deductible, which can be up to $1500.
They offered to fix it for free and she said no! she just wants money and 5 min. of fame!
Sounds like it to me
Insurance companys pay body shops too little ,collision work and body work in general is hard pain in the ass work
Insurance companies can bring potential new customers
I agree. I've been doing this for 30 years and the shop rate has only increased about 12 dollars per labor hour. With as advanced as these vehicles are becoming rates should be over 100/hr like mechanical shops if insurance companies didn't have a stranglehold on this industry.
@@class5bodyworks insurance companies want to save as much money as they can. It is the consumer that gets the shaft.
@@toyoscio I agree but the shop feels the heat if there's an issue. I guarantee if the insurance companies were ingrained in the mechanical industry those shops wouldn't be charging over 100/hr. No offense to mechanics but collision techs need to know more about vehicles today but aren't compensated accordingly due to insurance companies.
@@toyoscio thats steering and illegal.
How is that damage to that pathfinder render it "unsafe"? Is every repair that has filler unsafe? If so just about every vehicle on the road is an unsafe deathtrap
I think its worth noting that this guy was a direct competitor of classic collision for many years and has always had a hard on for them. This is not a defense of classic but they made no mention of the insurance company that was most likely responsible for the cheap repairs. I used to work for classic collision for about five years so I know what goes on behind the scenes. The reality is that the insurance company dictates completely the repairs that get done and if you dont do what they want the they will pull the shop out of the program. The point I'm making is that insurance companies run the show. If they tell the shop to fix something rather than replace it,then the shop has to do it.insurance companies completely dictate the entire process in this situation. I would be willing to bet money that the insurance company is geico. And I've seen them do really shady things like refuse to pay to fix damage that you can't see on the outside, which no shop should tolerate but it's either that or lose all the buisness. If anyone should be punished it should be them. As far as this "inspector" goes,he is absolutely fear mongering by telling people that their cars are unsafe to drive. In most cases that's just not true. And to say that the Benz in this video should have been totaled is rediculous.it was absolutely repairable. Even if you double the price it still wouldn't be anywhere near enough to total that car. In order for a car to total the cost of the repair has to exceed 85% of the cars value. This guy is targeting this shop to promote his inspection business by drumming up fear in the customers of classic collision because they are the largest independent company in GA.
You are spot on with that statement! Customers unfortunately aren't aware of all this. The insurance companies pitch the warranty on repairs but it's really the shop that backs it. I worked at an ABRA a few years back and the Geico adjuster actually had an office at the shop if that says anything. Yeah it had conveniences but the legal loophole was both ABRA and Geico had the same address but with "suite A" and "suite B".
I figured this guy had an agenda. I've seen vehicles like this repaired all the time without replacing or totaling. That Nissan wouldn't even need to be measured. I can tell from the pictures it didn't have frame damage. Even if a vehicle does as long as its straightened and measured properly it's still safe to drive. They should have asked this guy what the ICAR recommended repair procedure is for these. I bet they wouldn't be totalled.
@@class5bodyworks I really hope neither of you guys work in the industry. Insurance companies have nothing to do with the repair process. Classic Collision has also bought back a TON of repaired cars that were uncovered to have been poorly repaired. That's what "in network" body shops do. If you aren't using OEM procedures and OEM parts, you don't know what you're doing. Fix the car. Give the customer a bill. It's up to them what their insurance companies reimburses them for, then they can fight it out with their insurance company. If you've ever fixed a car based on an insurance companies estimate, you're a clueless butcher.
If the insurance company is dictating the repairs in your shop, you shouldn’t be in business.
Let’s just say it how it is the insurance company has everything under their fingers / including the media like this news channel . Let’s really talk about how they are pushing technicians to leave the career because every year there is an update to estimating systems that behind the scenes are owned by insurance company’s . NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THAT !! They are the dictators of the repair … no matter how much proof you show for labor hours needed to repair a vehicle they want to short technicians and body shops money to do the job correctly … funny how in this video both of the new estimators came out with higher estimators to repair the vehicle lol … that mean
More than likely the insurance didn’t want to pay so the shop had to cut corners to have the customer in their vehicle as soon as possible . Sad but our industry is destroyed by insurance companies that nick pick at clips for a fender liner clip that cost 48 cents put they are big sponsors for arenas and propaganda nationwide !!! Putting used quarter panels from wrecked cars on new vehicles because the part is 50% cheaper than buying a new one from the dealer . Open your eyes to the bigger picture as a consumer .. body shops are on the consumers side … it’s the insurance that wants to control every penny of the repair to save money , yet shops lose out on so much more like technicians training and new up to date tools they can’t afford because the insurance cut labor times …this video makes me laugh as I have been in this business for 17 years and it recently has gotten worse. People pay so much for insurance yet you get in an accident and your rates are hiked up and by the way we will buy tiwan and used parts for your new vehicle and pay the cheapest price for he repairs … that’s why there are shops that they want you to go to that are on their programs because they even have contracts with shops that in order to keep their doors open are promised x amount of work but in return labor rates are at what the insurance agrees with the shop and a lot and I mean a lot of operation s and materials can’t be charged to them !!! Say the truth and stop spreading misinformation about body shops !!
This why you DONT use insurance preferred shops. They work for the insurance companies and NOT in the consumers interest.
Totally agree. Insurance companies spend millions telling people to go to “preferred” etc. a group in the auto body industry not in bed with those same companies better spend $$ to get the word out that preferred means cheap and it’s not to the customers benefit. They better do it before it’s too late. Once most become preferred it’s too late. It happened in healthcare too.
Classic does good work.
It's not just the shop. The shop did not fix the car. The technician fixed the car. And there is bad techs in every shop.
The quarter panel did not need to be replaced . It was not a big hit when you cut to put a new panel. The body loses strength. Any time you can save a panel is better than cutting. Because it still holds its factory strength..
I worked for a collision repair company and yes they cut corners and do whatever to keep the insurance companies happy. They will cheaply do a repair so they can get on the insurance companies list of preferred repair companies for more business. The insurance companies run the show.
it's capitalism 101. damn shame.
Total a car for small damage. I get it if it’s a cracked or a bent frame. But come on body panels. Get out of town. My wife’s getting wrinkles in her body panels as she is getting older. Guess I need to confirm she’s totaled and put her out to pasture. 😂 probably have to get three estimates first. 😂
Three, just to be sure!
Most the time I can do a pretty good est from pics alone just need all 4 corners and couple underneath. Lol
When you have to correct somebody else's bad body work, insurance combines the already paid claim with your bill to re-repair. Then it totals out. They usually just charge back their crappy DRP for all of the money they were paid to "fix" the vehicle, in my experience.
Yeah BS on that Mercedes. Most cars over a few years old get totalled when 1 or more airbags deploy due to the cost of them and additional parts that need replacement after a deployment. Most newer vehicles with unified construction can be brought to factory specs on a frame machine.. Cars 20 years ago may have looked like they sustained less damage but they weren't safer if you search a crash test of these vehicles. Watch what happens to the crash test dummy in the older vehicle. A newer vehicle may be a total loss due the cost of repairs exceeding the value of the vehicle including its salvage to the insurance company but the driver walks away.
Incorrect
That guy is shady as hell you see what he’s trying to do destroy one company to build up another....Plus he’s probably mad that that big shop has the most contracts in his little shop doesn’t maybe he’s a side owner of the little one
No way that would total that benz
It’s a old benz worth 3-4K easy total
Depends on if it actually damaged the frame of the car.
@@odinson9267 vehicles that have been put on frame machines and pullers can be put back on the road. It is safe if done right and extremely common. They wanted money out of that merc.
I've seen more expensive cars total for less damage. I work for an Aluminum certified and Mercedes Certified shop. Aluminum frame components are not repairable. Replace only. A rail on a cheap old C300 will kill it if it goes to a qualified body shop using Mercedes repair information for inspections, sectioning points, corrosion protection, and panel repairability thresholds.
@@odinson9267 unibody construction
I am not trained in body repair, BUT a close friend was hit by a person who did not look first changing lanes. Bumper and fender replaced. Fender looks like it has a bad case of Acne, the bumper cover already has paint peeling. The gaps where the finder and bumper meet are too big at the top, and overlapping on the other side. It seems in this case "Looks good enough, get the next one in!" BTW, it was the body shop of the dealer where it was purchased from...
I would not be surprised that the insurance company approved an aftermarket fender and didn’t pay for color sand and buff for the fender including blends while the shop asked for it the insurance said “HELL NO WE WONT PAY FOR THAT” that’s the insurance for you .. don’t be fooled by the media … you have a right as a consumer remmeber the body shop is there to repair the vehicle the insurance company is there to just dictate what they can pay and we’re they can save money on their end although your rates might get jacked up and in a rental only for 30 days soon after the 30 days are done if your repair is not completed the insurance will cut your rental for their delays on not paying the shop or maybe the shop
Wanted to repair the vehicle correct but having to wait for an adjuster 1 week or a few days for a reply holds your repairs up making the shop look like they are at fault and having to rush trough your repairs .
Iam calling bs on some of these cars being unsafe some of the work isn't great the Benz being totaled bs.this inspector is trying to make a name for himself
no way that benz was totaled
How the cars are made now days. It should be totaled. Years ago cars had full frames to protect you from a accident. Now to make the lighter and more fuel efficient. They are all unibody construction. I Years ago, they only had unibody construction on the front end. Now it's the full vehicle that's unibody. The full body of the car is is part of the would be frame. There is only a partial frame between the front and back wheel wells. The rear and front end have no frame and are crumple zones. Lost the integrity of the unibody construction. And it wont just crumple, it will disintegrate when hit. Any car made today needs to be totaled if in any accident. this video does not show the b=damage that could have been under that bumper on the benz. The unibody weld could possibly been all ripped apart and popped. Those plastic bumpers can pop out most times so you don't see the actual damage. What I'm really saying here. Is cars made now days, are crap.
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@Jeroen u know nothing about cars, shut up
Every point is wrong in your statement
@@danor6812 read the comment above
The justice department didn't comment because there is ALOT of money involved, and they would have to ruffle their friends feathers..... it goes deep!
Typical corporate repair facility
montanaro is shaking the money tree.
Looks like a statefarm claim if you ask me. The news left out the negotiation that the shop had with the insurance. For all if we know the insurance refused to replace the quarter panel from the start.
normal wear on a car can be more dangerous but then again if you know nothing about cars what can you expect. I feel there is 2 problems here 1. people all over the world needs important car parts replaced : breaks , tire rods, ball joints , control arms you get my point, but frame damage..ok? and 2nd collisions shops have been ripping off people for years and years because most of us don't know about metal forming in the first place so what else is new.
Lawyers make good money, body techs dont,, but we do what we are told by our boss or we get starved out.
Body shop can only do with the insurance company allows them to do. Insurance companies write their own estimates and body shops can only get paid what’s written on the estimate. It’s not the body shop is the insurance company
what about all the inferior aftermarket parts? the insurance companies make them put on a vehicles. they do not hold up like oh yeah. seems to be targeting the lowest man on the totem pole
Making a person whole does not mean giving them a new car, unfortunately. Repairs must be made and shops only give as much as they are being paid to work for by the insurance co. Its up to the owner to fight for a solid repair and this is why you should pick your own body shop that you know and trust.
sounds like the body shop i drive truck for in ringgold ga
This story is all BS.
Saw on that estimate $44.00 an hour labor rate. There’s part of the problem right there. How can you make money at that rate in 2019? You can’t. Atlanta has always been a cutthroat body shop market.
Yes I agree
LOL, I charge more than that for side jobs in my garage.
Even in nyc its only around 50 body labor and 30 paint material
Good luck with that
The insurance companies will "guarantee volume if you play ball". aka steering. Collision shops should be up there with mechanical shops on rate.
@@class5bodyworks and thats not steering, when the insurance companies pay the same price to everyone, its a fair battle, customer can choose whatever the hell shop they want, if a shop wants to stand out, learn how to write a proper estimate and have the proper equipment, when working around the labor rate(like more hours)
Insurance companys constantly cut bodyshop costs to the point where it looks like it's the bodyshop made the desicion to replace or repair, bodyshops always estimate for new panels but are cut down on costs by insurance who know f something is being repaired or replaced ! It's either go with it or not have a business. Insurance companys are the problem here not bodyshops
This argument goes on in almost all states. So all states should total out all vehicles, close all body shops and send everyone to the new car dealer. Results, thousands of unemployed body shop employees. Thousands of vacant shops and insurance rates that sky rocket. Also think of all the scrapped vehicles and wasted metals and plastics. I started in the car service repair and insurance in 1988. New to the business. Why did customer #1 pay shop before the work was done. These folk have high end vehicles and life is not perfect!
When I get a dent on my car or van I take my car or van my mates work shop to get it repaired for only £60
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Bottom line If you don't want your car rebuilt stop looking at your phone while driving.
Now geico can save you 15% on your Car Insurance. I mean from any repairs that will do in the future
this is like listening to top row grand stand spectators talk like they know the sport better then the athletes
Thanks for furnishing like awesome content.
Once a wreck always a wreck
Thomas Matey that's so not true!
So true. If it wasn’t then it wouldn’t be in the vehicle history
Huge conflict of interest between two shops is what I see.
The body repair industry is almost entirely supported by the ins. Industry. They indirectly control labor rates, repair procedures, Ect. The independent adjusters are the thorn in their sides. After the 1970's the the situation has been cleaned up quite a bit. A time when Ins. companies were a two headed screw. for their customers thru high rates and shoddy repairs using knockoff parts.
44 bucks an hour? You can’t get a lawnmower fixed for that per hour.
nope now stay at that rate for 10 years or more.
@@matthewgibbs6886 before I quit the industry after 16 years out shop was getting 38.
as long as its not a cat and flap
Im a body tech and insurance will rather pay repair if it's less then the replacement part and replacement time
Fixed bashed metal isn’t the same how I got it from the factory it’s not fair we pay high insurance for them to use cheap labor
Haha, either pay your insurance or dont drive
The labor is only cheap because insurance companies make it so.
@@class5bodyworks what and how do u think they deserve whatever price they put on a board says labor rate?
Right now between 50 to 60 an hour is wayyyyy enough for majority of cars
@@KW-fx9ww Tell that to an ASE certified mechanic and see what their reply is.😂
cheaper parts a/m is all crap
An improper repair that needs to be corrected later on can and most of the time does total a vehicle. Especially when oem parts are necessary to do the work. After the repair is done, the cars value is much lower. Then if the work isn’t done right and needs additional work, it’s not uncommon for it to total the car.
Are you seriously. Those cars weren't damaged enough to be scared of.
insurance and repair is such a rip-off. Consumers always stuck holding the bag. Pay your vehicle off and use minimum coverage.
they are crooks charged me 13,718 dollars for a small repair
Don't trust on too much insurance companies. Try to find cheaper insurance after all they are cheating us anyway..
With your opinion, any company making a profit, is cheating the customer. My counter to this is, prove it!
I'm a collision tech and this guy is wrong. No way in hell would that mercedes and pathfinder would total. That does not make it unsafe to drive. This dude would get his teeth knocked out coming to our shop.
And if it was repaired by an I-CAR certified technician, then those customers have nothing to worry about. It's the hackers and butchers that half -ass body men that dont repair the vehicles correctly that gives us a bad name and makes our career a living hell
Cringe tough guy. You act like I-car certification is difficult to obtain lmao
I want to know what Montanaro thinks of ARTHUR TUSSIK, WHOO-HOO!!!! “Siempretvyette, svymiey Artoor!!”
Fantastic video
For those who get into accidents, go with a body shop that is preferred by the insurance company as long as you have the collision insurance.
Why?
@@MouseyBusiness As long as you have the collision insurance and they tell you about the deductible, it would be much cheaper and faster. Experience taught me that.
@@RJN0607 Drive to my body shop and let me disassemble your car and show you how many steps were missed by your insurance companies "preferred" body shops. I've been a part of MANY cars that we inspected after insurance companies steered customers to a cheaper "in network" body shop and we uncovered so much incorrectly repaired and not repaired items that the cars were totalled and the body shops that "fixed" the cars were charged back by the insurance companies for their terrible work.
Lmao not at all. Avoid preferred shops because this is what happens. Corners are cut and customers get screwed in preferred shops. DRP = doesn’t repair properly
That is the worst thing you could do. You must be an insurance adjuster, DRP (Direct Repair Program) shops are scared to push back on the insurance companies in fear their RPM score will drop and they lose that account. Look for a certified bodyshop with good reviews that is not a DRP because chances are their willing to push back on the insurance and negotiate more on your behalf
Nices video
That’s funny 😂
This is a joke it was more like jealousy about work! This guy is a.Karen ! And that lady it was looking for fame, and the.mercedez ?!! Poor guy they should've total hos car 🤣
I need an inspector please let me know if you know in Virginia
You dont need an inspector. call your insurance company and tell them you would like the repairs on your vehicle reinspected by a different bodyshop or as state farm does have them reinspect it. Normally free of charge.
Hi John. You have 6 years for additional bills to be submitted on a vehicle. You can go to another body shop that performs "Post Repair Inspections" and they can submit a bill to insurance based on their findings. It's more difficult now that it's been 2 years, but it can still be done.
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