I think what is most upsetting to everyone, more than the army being bad, is that it lacks fun rules and there are enormous misses thematicaly. The Maw Krusha on rend -1 is aweful, I think everyone would prefer to have a 600pts MK that slaps rather than a 350pts bruiser. Gore Gruntas are Brutes on pigs, why are they damage 1 then? Even on the charge. Everyone loved Smashing and Bashing in previous edition, it's pretty fun and themy, why not give it back with a once per turn occurence? And I could certainly expand the list. I'm afraid they won't do much though, they did keep Gordrakk on a 4+ save all of 3rd edition when it was pretty obvious it needed a 3+ save to be played. Anyway, thanks for the review!
I read elsewhere that it feels like GW is giving meh rules to main army and going all in on AOR which while cool isn’t what most people want as their main focus
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but I think the change to Waaagh (not just once per character) will still exist. The version from the book is basically the one pre errata. We have no indication that it won’t be changed to the same exact version we have now.
I can only ASSUME that it'll be changed back... and the book was printed before the errata was put in WarComm. Once per game would be a huge blow that Ironjawz didn't need.
Great interview, i will say one thing about the foot of gork. It only does the stomp in your own movement phase, so it does nothing when you countercast it, unfortunately. Excited for 18" +1 to hit bubble everyturn!
We need our rend back, consistent damage is a must. I can work with these rules, but the damage output isnt enough. I had the issue when i played my last tournament, i went 2 an one because the new STD rules with the knights an a 3d6 charge an stupid mortal damage made all my boyz look like a army of cheap screen. It was ridiculous to say the least. Lost out on a few tactics from getting movement shut down by Belakor. It was a complete one sided match.
I really wish theyd introduce some cavalry for Kruelboyz. We're too slow for as how high our saves are. Battle Tactics are so hard to achieve comparatively. We also need attacks of 2&3+ for boltboys and wounds of 2+ for killbows. Compared to stormcast ranged, we're awfully underpowered here.
This book was finished BEFORE the updates that GW made for IJ waaaghs, that being said, I can say 100% confidently it will be erratad/FAQ back to the new rule the day the time releases
Trampled by Gork is the rest of the battle. Coach says rest of the turn but it's the test of the battle. Personally i think it's an amazing ability to turn up to 10 pieces of terrain into mortal wound sources for every pile in, charge, retreat, move, CoS move order, etc possibly more than once a turn once multiple pieces are trampled.
I like the interactions and discussions about this leak especially the final thoughs, even if I think this relies more on hope for GW future FAQ than on writting satisfaction. From Rob's screens, the (already ultra bad) gore grunta now hit on 5+, when they already miss the +1 damage on charge for the rider like any other cavalry and no rend on the pigs. You said it, that's a fact that they are bad. Still, I have the feeling like many ones that this book has been written in August, will a lot of rollbacks vs. the FAQ we knew : you also said it, and the analysis of meta prediction vs production time is a reality. I would love to see that as an improvement on GW marketing strategy and the end of paper format, which seem to be oudated to follow the meta. I won't be surprised to see the ability of the ardboys come back from "each turn" to "the turn this unit received a charge", i'm very careful on everything we saw on this book. Wait and see then
@@40KWill Well, it was fluff accurate and quite simple : the turn you received a charge, you get +1 rend and a shield bash ability in combat phase. What didn't they understand ? Having a shield bash for each unit on each turn of combat phase would put the ardboys on top, so would their points too. Is this something we want for IJ ? 60 ardboyz for 1200 points ?
Did the Waaaagh! change from what Rob posted? His showed once per battle in your charge phase. That does not let Gordrak call a Waaagh every turn. Also what was he talking about with the Warchanter being in the tower and getting points from being in combat. He has to kill something. This makes me worried that this review is rushed without reading rules or that the leaks we all saw were not the same, which might be nice. Honest Wargamer did a terrible job at reading the rules that he literally had behind his head on the screen. I hope Coach is not making the same to rush and get rules out.
Nice review, and great closing remarks! Im still skeptical about the potential of the new Ironjawz battletome, all the destribed synergies need a lot of dice rolls to go your way. I don't believe they will change the waagh so that the same 1 hero can call it every round. They will probably just change it back to how is was in the latest battlescroll. Also, Gordrakk's +1 to hit is still only once per game unfortunately, and you can't call the waaagh in Zoggrok's AoR. IMO the main problem with the big waagh heroic traits is that you can only use them in your hero phase and they last until the end of the round, which is only your turn if you go second.
Disappointing that so many of the rules in this half of the review seem to have been missed or misread. Hard to take the overall judgement of the army seriously when it’s based on so many incorrect assumptions.
@AoSCoach Coach I expect the Honest wargamer to just talk and spew incorrect information. It's his shtick. You, however, got the rules handed to you by the company and had an objectively good player on to discuss them and then both of you got excited about rules that on later observation were just wrong. So yeah free internet but it weakens your brand.
They just did a points update, do you think they will do another one every tome? I was thinking they probably did them points with the tomes that are already printed "in mind" and they will do points on the normal 6 month cycle. Could be wrong...wouldnt mind being wrong with my gits coming next.
I don't know until I see a battlescroll... it feels like there will be quick changes in the first few months but I don't have any facts, just a feeling
@@AoSCoach Well do you not know? The rules you presented are not the same as what was in the leak. Multiple Waaghs, Warchanter getting points for every turn in combat and if these are different then there are probably more.
Great review and appreciated the postive spin. I hope that they do change some rules but then why would i buy a hard copy book that then instantly becomes outdated? And if it doesnt change then i think the army is still lacking.
Sorry, but the book is subjectively worse. Needs to an army that already played like crap, hardly anything last until your next turn, we have to roll for most of our buffs unlike other armies which have a good chance of failure. Most models aren’t worth their current points, Godrak hits like a wet noodle for the ‘fist’ of Gork. The big pigs need to be under 200 points, at least the non hero versions. Why does our terrain debuff instead of buff? That goes against what IJ and KB are about. Make the IJ the buff army and KB the debuff army.
I kind of understand why Killabeat got nerfed, its because the gork-roara can give +2 to chanting rolls and GW for some reason thought that needing to commit to also bringing a wizard to make your prayers work wasn't enough of a cost
When a book has typo's before it even comes out and has errata ready to go, I don't see the point in paying an expensive price for something that is fundamentally flawed day one and then within a few months of errata will be useless.
Fantastic content. Too many people doom spiraling based on knee-jerk reactions. Very productive and positive conversation, I'm so excited to see the points to get an idea of how much green can get on the table.
unless i'm missing something, an army of renown keeps none of the regular army's rules so no waaagh! in zoggrok's ironmongerz contrary to what was described while talking about da great wallopa
The army got much weaker after the battletome. They undid the one buff of having multiple waaaghs which is a significant power boost. I'd say wait it out because the changes will come but we're not sure when.
@40KWill it'd be sad if we end up with Maw Krushas costing 300 pts and Gore Gruntas for 120pts because they were not able to write decent warscrolls in a first place. Points adjustment don't help to counter the weakness of the writing - and when the drop is too far then it just becomes silly spam.
For me, I'd like to see the game paused there. It's not like the Sabres have a great scoring chance or the shot had been taken. It was only a goal because of the injury. Happy for that not to be stopped for a skater
This dude is really emphasizing how much we are all underestimating this battletome that seems pretty clearly bad. Like no offense it looks practically the same with some minor buffs/debuffs depending on how you look at it.
Aaron has proved himself on the tournament scene over a number of years as a top performer. If he sees something, perhaps its worth exploring? He's stated that its a nerf and clearly things have changed but also he sees upside 🤷♀️
@@AoSCoach You're right. I'm definitely being pessimistic and that's on me. Like on the one hand his positivity is nice to see because the reaction has been so negative but I also can't help but feel bummed most of the rules are the same. Love your videos man.
Very disapointing battletome. I will not buy it. I hope for positive changes or my Orruks will stay in the box and sleep till next Edition. I wanted to play tournaments with them.... I can forget that
FYI - Big Waaagh buff is til end of battle round, not end of battle. Typo.
I think what is most upsetting to everyone, more than the army being bad, is that it lacks fun rules and there are enormous misses thematicaly. The Maw Krusha on rend -1 is aweful, I think everyone would prefer to have a 600pts MK that slaps rather than a 350pts bruiser. Gore Gruntas are Brutes on pigs, why are they damage 1 then? Even on the charge.
Everyone loved Smashing and Bashing in previous edition, it's pretty fun and themy, why not give it back with a once per turn occurence?
And I could certainly expand the list.
I'm afraid they won't do much though, they did keep Gordrakk on a 4+ save all of 3rd edition when it was pretty obvious it needed a 3+ save to be played.
Anyway, thanks for the review!
I read elsewhere that it feels like GW is giving meh rules to main army and going all in on AOR which while cool isn’t what most people want as their main focus
Great interviewer, great guest, and getting two perspectives on big waagh is tremendous work, as always
Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but I think the change to Waaagh (not just once per character) will still exist. The version from the book is basically the one pre errata. We have no indication that it won’t be changed to the same exact version we have now.
Basically I think we will keep “once per character”.
I can only ASSUME that it'll be changed back... and the book was printed before the errata was put in WarComm. Once per game would be a huge blow that Ironjawz didn't need.
Great interview, i will say one thing about the foot of gork. It only does the stomp in your own movement phase, so it does nothing when you countercast it, unfortunately. Excited for 18" +1 to hit bubble everyturn!
Yeah and if you make the mistake of thinking that it does in the countercast it will get killed if you put it into the combat right away.
Can't wait for those tactics videos Aaron!
We need our rend back, consistent damage is a must. I can work with these rules, but the damage output isnt enough. I had the issue when i played my last tournament, i went 2 an one because the new STD rules with the knights an a 3d6 charge an stupid mortal damage made all my boyz look like a army of cheap screen. It was ridiculous to say the least. Lost out on a few tactics from getting movement shut down by Belakor. It was a complete one sided match.
StD need a FAQ. The banners shutting off commands to everything, units not priced to fight twice, etc
I really wish theyd introduce some cavalry for Kruelboyz. We're too slow for as how high our saves are. Battle Tactics are so hard to achieve comparatively.
We also need attacks of 2&3+ for boltboys and wounds of 2+ for killbows. Compared to stormcast ranged, we're awfully underpowered here.
I found this show really uplifting. Thanks Coach and Aaron!
Glad we could offer some light... it's still a rough ride and definitely need to see some boosts or points discounts
unless i missed something waaagh is once per battle in the new book
Yep. Not just that but once in your charge phase.
They assumed it will be changed to the current wording, but ignored that that would also add “once per character”.
@@Blackorc13 they made a two fold best case scenario. It would go to how it is now but retain a hero can do it as much as they want.
This book was finished BEFORE the updates that GW made for IJ waaaghs, that being said, I can say 100% confidently it will be erratad/FAQ back to the new rule the day the time releases
@@claytonlanphere5790sloppy if true. Day one patches are what we all love
Trampled by Gork is the rest of the battle. Coach says rest of the turn but it's the test of the battle. Personally i think it's an amazing ability to turn up to 10 pieces of terrain into mortal wound sources for every pile in, charge, retreat, move, CoS move order, etc possibly more than once a turn once multiple pieces are trampled.
Indeed great but does it really fit into the army? And is worth the Investment? Warchanter only for this. No flexibility. And pretty short range
@JohannesS.. fair. He does get you another drop for a cheap price. Not sure if thats worth it but he is more durable than the wizard.
I like the interactions and discussions about this leak especially the final thoughs, even if I think this relies more on hope for GW future FAQ than on writting satisfaction.
From Rob's screens, the (already ultra bad) gore grunta now hit on 5+, when they already miss the +1 damage on charge for the rider like any other cavalry and no rend on the pigs. You said it, that's a fact that they are bad.
Still, I have the feeling like many ones that this book has been written in August, will a lot of rollbacks vs. the FAQ we knew : you also said it, and the analysis of meta prediction vs production time is a reality. I would love to see that as an improvement on GW marketing strategy and the end of paper format, which seem to be oudated to follow the meta.
I won't be surprised to see the ability of the ardboys come back from "each turn" to "the turn this unit received a charge", i'm very careful on everything we saw on this book.
Wait and see then
The ardboy ability might stay because it was confusing to many players how it worked.
@@40KWill Well, it was fluff accurate and quite simple : the turn you received a charge, you get +1 rend and a shield bash ability in combat phase.
What didn't they understand ?
Having a shield bash for each unit on each turn of combat phase would put the ardboys on top, so would their points too. Is this something we want for IJ ? 60 ardboyz for 1200 points ?
@hadrienchau8398 i think ardboyz go up at least to 200 points and maybe to more.
Did the Waaaagh! change from what Rob posted? His showed once per battle in your charge phase. That does not let Gordrak call a Waaagh every turn. Also what was he talking about with the Warchanter being in the tower and getting points from being in combat. He has to kill something. This makes me worried that this review is rushed without reading rules or that the leaks we all saw were not the same, which might be nice. Honest Wargamer did a terrible job at reading the rules that he literally had behind his head on the screen. I hope Coach is not making the same to rush and get rules out.
Nice review, and great closing remarks! Im still skeptical about the potential of the new Ironjawz battletome, all the destribed synergies need a lot of dice rolls to go your way.
I don't believe they will change the waagh so that the same 1 hero can call it every round. They will probably just change it back to how is was in the latest battlescroll. Also, Gordrakk's +1 to hit is still only once per game unfortunately, and you can't call the waaagh in Zoggrok's AoR.
IMO the main problem with the big waagh heroic traits is that you can only use them in your hero phase and they last until the end of the round, which is only your turn if you go second.
Disappointing that so many of the rules in this half of the review seem to have been missed or misread. Hard to take the overall judgement of the army seriously when it’s based on so many incorrect assumptions.
I agree. Same with honest wargamer. The ork rules review have been subpar.
Sorry we didn't meet your expectation on this free TH-cam content
@AoSCoach Coach I expect the Honest wargamer to just talk and spew incorrect information. It's his shtick. You, however, got the rules handed to you by the company and had an objectively good player on to discuss them and then both of you got excited about rules that on later observation were just wrong. So yeah free internet but it weakens your brand.
Great insight as always
They just did a points update, do you think they will do another one every tome? I was thinking they probably did them points with the tomes that are already printed "in mind" and they will do points on the normal 6 month cycle. Could be wrong...wouldnt mind being wrong with my gits coming next.
So I heard there will be some changes to when it first got leaked. Is that true?
I don't know until I see a battlescroll... it feels like there will be quick changes in the first few months but I don't have any facts, just a feeling
@@AoSCoach Well do you not know? The rules you presented are not the same as what was in the leak. Multiple Waaghs, Warchanter getting points for every turn in combat and if these are different then there are probably more.
Great review and appreciated the postive spin. I hope that they do change some rules but then why would i buy a hard copy book that then instantly becomes outdated? And if it doesnt change then i think the army is still lacking.
Sorry, but the book is subjectively worse. Needs to an army that already played like crap, hardly anything last until your next turn, we have to roll for most of our buffs unlike other armies which have a good chance of failure.
Most models aren’t worth their current points, Godrak hits like a wet noodle for the ‘fist’ of Gork. The big pigs need to be under 200 points, at least the non hero versions. Why does our terrain debuff instead of buff? That goes against what IJ and KB are about.
Make the IJ the buff army and KB the debuff army.
I kind of understand why Killabeat got nerfed, its because the gork-roara can give +2 to chanting rolls and GW for some reason thought that needing to commit to also bringing a wizard to make your prayers work wasn't enough of a cost
Who is gork-roara?
it's the manifestation
A green army of 80s roided up cockney wrestlers
riding gigantic armoured pigs
... im very very tempted to start Ironjawz
@@Kujapaints Wait a while. Not enough synergy. ATM they are like worse STE.
@@joshuaginn792 Definitely biding my time. The rules much like Khorne always kept me at bay. Ty for the headsup :D
When a book has typo's before it even comes out and has errata ready to go, I don't see the point in paying an expensive price for something that is fundamentally flawed day one and then within a few months of errata will be useless.
No example lists?
Points aren't available so we'd be making stuff up at this point
Fantastic content. Too many people doom spiraling based on knee-jerk reactions. Very productive and positive conversation, I'm so excited to see the points to get an idea of how much green can get on the table.
unless i'm missing something, an army of renown keeps none of the regular army's rules so no waaagh! in zoggrok's ironmongerz contrary to what was described while talking about da great wallopa
I don’t remember the context of this specific moment but AOR don’t get to access the normal allegiance abilities. Thanks for the potential pick up
Is It more viable After the new battletome? I'd love to play Ironjawz as a new player
The army got much weaker after the battletome. They undid the one buff of having multiple waaaghs which is a significant power boost. I'd say wait it out because the changes will come but we're not sure when.
@@saltedduckeggs Unless there is a change immediately the next Battlescroll update with points will be ~June.
@@saltedduckeggs Even then I wouldn't hold my breath for any significant fixes or changes that make this army fun and competitive.
What is the use of GW giving people preview books to review if they're not going to give points so that they can give proper reviews?
Yeah, I'm sorry but I don't think anybody can polish this turd of a battletome.
Just wait for points. That's what will be the thing that saves our kills it.
@@40KWill Unfortunately points don't fix bad rules.
@40KWill it'd be sad if we end up with Maw Krushas costing 300 pts and Gore Gruntas for 120pts because they were not able to write decent warscrolls in a first place. Points adjustment don't help to counter the weakness of the writing - and when the drop is too far then it just becomes silly spam.
@@cablesalad3168none of the rules are bad.
@vinzanity100 I agree. One of the issues now is the spam that IJ can put on the table.
Waiting for the points. Going up to 200 or more for ardboyz?
@@40KWill points are already out as of the 18th of December
@@fozzyami For the old rules. This is a new battletome so expect the points to change. They did not include all the units in the new book.
For me, I'd like to see the game paused there. It's not like the Sabres have a great scoring chance or the shot had been taken. It was only a goal because of the injury. Happy for that not to be stopped for a skater
As I wanted to do a pig based army, it's very disappointing.
This dude is really emphasizing how much we are all underestimating this battletome that seems pretty clearly bad. Like no offense it looks practically the same with some minor buffs/debuffs depending on how you look at it.
Aaron has proved himself on the tournament scene over a number of years as a top performer. If he sees something, perhaps its worth exploring? He's stated that its a nerf and clearly things have changed but also he sees upside 🤷♀️
@@AoSCoach You're right. I'm definitely being pessimistic and that's on me. Like on the one hand his positivity is nice to see because the reaction has been so negative but I also can't help but feel bummed most of the rules are the same. Love your videos man.
Very nice podcast. Sounds more like aos dad rather than coach.
Some people do call me Daddy
Very disapointing battletome. I will not buy it. I hope for positive changes or my Orruks will stay in the box and sleep till next Edition. I wanted to play tournaments with them.... I can forget that
You can still do fine with them in tournaments.