Makera Carvera Desktop CNC: Great for Beginners ?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2024
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The Makera Carvera is the first CNC mill I ever had my hands on before.
As a 3D printing guy, I honestly had quite some doubts and anxieties about getting into CNC machining.
But, oh boy… ball screws driven by servo motors, automated levelling, automated tool changing… and there is way more to discover on that modern cnc machine. Sounds too good to be true for beginners and even advanced users, right?! Join me, a total CNC noob, doing my first steps in CNC milling and getting my first project milled out of aluminium!
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Additional Links
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Carvera manuals www.makera.com/pages/carvera-...
Carvera Wiki wiki.makera.com/en/home
Carvera video by Stranger Parts • Carvera - The Perfect ...
Chamfering Tutorial by Mechanical Advantage : • Fusion 360 - Chamfer T...
Chef's Menu:
----------------------------
00:00 Intro
01:29 What you get and Setup
06:39 Sponsor PCBWay
07:25 First Steps and Example Projects
13:25 My First CNC Alu Project
14:44 CAM: Getting started
18:26 First time milling an Aluminium part
22:10 Lessons leaned
24:51 Negatives on Carvera and Conclusion
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#cncmilling - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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The reason why you get the misalignment of the upper and lower cuts is due to that you use an live edge to center your stock when flipping. To fix that, first position the stock as you did in the beginning with the xy block, clamps and screws. The the second operation is to face the peace of the bloc you are going to use. Then this is the important one. Drill the screw holes and screw the stock down (At least 2 screws and screw holes.). You can now remove the clamps as the part is fixed to the board through the screws. Continue the cutting make sure in CAM to not hit the screws in the stock if they are sticking out a bit. Do this side completely done and cut it out. Now you have one part that is faced and has the features on one side. Now the magic. Flip your half ready part and screw them back in the same hole again. With this the position of the stock becomes absolute. Finally some times those screws in the beginning can is some cases be supplemented with dobbel sided tape if the forces are lower. But then you can not flip the stock easy. Final 2. With CNC you may spend more time making stock holding systems then actually making the first batch of products. Check in the @ContraptionCollection channel here on TH-cam he has some nice CNC trick's. Sorry for long message.
Thanks a lot for the long message!
I ran into this same issue flipping parts with my CNC. Another option would be to set your 0 on something that doesn't move. For instance, the alignment fixture. If you are setting 0 off the edge of the stock, the stock needs to be precisely cut. When you flip it you will be off by the difference in stock dimensions. Setting 0 off the fixture would require you to roughly model it in Fusion. From from there you can set your WCS.
A second option would be to set your 0 off of a milled feature. If your probe is small enough to get into the gap around the part you can set X and Y. Or if the machine can probe a bore that would work to. That would set the 0 to milled features and should get you a lot closer.
@@NainKaigo Yea. That is also an option. You could mill the live edge to get an true position when flipping but it could be less precise then two, three or mare screws.
I've been using mine for a few months now. I think it's a pretty good machine. I own a 10 kW CNC mill so I have a little bit of experience.
You can't overstate how nice the automatic tool changer is: it means you can leave it running in another room, it just goes and fills its vacuum box slowly with chips until it's done with the whole program. The automated tool setter is awesome as is the cute little service-free Z probe.
I see one main point of potential improvement: the spindle speed could use being about 2x higher for small tools in aluminum, and the spindle speed stabilization is not great (it hunts a lot with load). Otherwise, maybe the Y axis should use something like Hiwin HGR rails instead of the LM style bearings, would make it a little stiffer? I need to do some real stiffness measurements.
That said, it's quite precise when taking light cuts, it fits on a benchtop, and it's really well integrated. I bought one because this was the first "home" CNC mill that I felt I wouldn't get infuriated by - and so far, so good.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and possible improvements on the Carvera - very interesting!
Could you elaborate on the rails? I was considering building one and any information like that would be a welcome addition.
Yep I should have ordered the Carvera instead of the onefinity
Been milling professionally for years. You're gonna love this!
It doesn't look like anyone has explained the default stock to leave values, so I'll do it. Generally you would use a roughing tool and a finishing tool or even just different feed rates to improve the surface finish on the pockets, hence the 0.5mm stock to leave, so that the next tool has something to remove.
Spring pass. Came here to explain it but you got it.
@@saltwaterrook4638 i usually got taught a spring pass is a second pass with the same tool and settings to remove any material that was not removed by the first pass. This is due to bending of either the work piece or the tool, or both. Roughing vs. finishing passes on the other hand are used for quick material removal and good surface finish respectively.
And don’t do side milling and face milling for finishing at the same time if you want a very good finish.
Our Kennametal rep recommended 0.05mm stock to leave and it's been working great. Of course this depends on the expected surface roughness of your roughing step.
Hahahaha "let me express it into 3d printing language" - love it! 🎉
Interesting review! Editing is outstanding 😮
Hi, awesome to see that cnc milling is becoming avaiable for the hobbyists. As someone who is experienced using industrial cnc machines I have a couple tips for you. For what I can see you are probing on the side of the plate on both operations. You can do it on the first operation, but I would recommend to probe a feature that has been milled on the first operation to probe for the second operation. For example a troughhole. As for the chamfers I would recommend to give it a larger chamfer tip offset, this way you aren't milling with the very tip. The 0.05 offset you used it quite small. I recommend this because the higher the offset the higher the circumferential speed is. At the very tip the theoretical circumferential speed is 0. But I think you did quite well for a first attempt! Cheers!
Hey there, thanks a lot for your helpful comment - great to see that there are still nice people out there!
This machine really sounds good! Thanks for the review
Thanks for watching and commenting 😘
Very nice video.
You will find you get much better results if you get shorter tools and stick them out less from the collet. In general, a stickout of 3xd or less is preferred. So a 3mm tool should stick out 9mm or less if feasible. This reduces chatter by a LOT and will significantly increase surface finish and even allow you to cut faster. If your part is only 3mm thick, then you don't need the extra stickout anyway and should choke up on the tool as far as possible, usually up to where the flutes start.
This applies to side cutting tools like endmills and chamfer tools. Drills and spot drills can stick out much farther before you start to have issues.
the .5mm stock to leave is there because the most common practice is to rough out a part and then finish the part. or in other words remove most of the material leaving enough to be sure there is still material to take a delicate finish pass, leaving the final surface more accurate and looking better. if you click the 3 dots next to the stock to leave and click edit expression it will show where that value came from.
I love this maker rennaissance that is going on, for the price it is out of the range of most hobbyists, but it is getting more and more attainable.
I keep coming back to this machine, but since I only need CNC'd parts very infrequently, I can't really justify the price. Although... I said the same thing about 3D printers, but once I got one of them I never stopped designing and printing stuff for around the house. That thing earns its keep, maybe this will too.
They are releasing a smaller and more basic machine called the Air, for under $2000. That might be a nice affordable option to get started with CNC.
Wow this looks amazing
Thank you very much for making this review, love to finnaly have some base to decide on, for CNC machines, i cant wait for the prototyping of 3d printer parts in future videos !
The beauty is that with 3DP the mounting problem can be solved :) and i absolutely cant wait to see what you come up with !
Thanks YOU for watching!
This thing looks awesome!
I like what this company is about. Offer a fairly robust machine for a fairly decent price and create a community of users for education purposes. Looks like a great way to start your journey into CNC.
Consider using a locating dowel to flip parts. Use a hole or two in your part that goes into the bed below and use that to locate the flipped work piece.
A great video as always! I really like that they give you a variety of material to try out all the things like the PCB fabrication for the start.
When it comes to this topic I‘m a noob too and I didn’t even know that you can even chamfer edges with such a machine ^^
Thanks! Absolutely - it even comes with a tool for chamfers :-)
Looking forward to seeing CNC parts on a future V0. Gotta take the record back from an ender 3 now...
You could have fixed all of those wcs issues by milling a clean 90deg edge on one side. Then starting your program off a known true milled surface. Never rely on saw cuts to give you references. You could have also shifted your wcs and probed off a bore or internal pocket. Lastly a mql or consistent air blast will help alot and reducing your tool stick out as you have a lot of vibration and chatter.
i would recommend printing or cutting a fan that fits over your spindle, that way it will blow the chips off when the spindle is spinning. also, when cnc'ing double sided parts, it is good practice to use dowl/location pins (similar to the ones that were supplied with the PCB making kit), the first operation usually drills a couple of holes through the stock into the baseboard, then you insert the pins, so when you flip the stock over its perfectly aligned.
I just bought one of these about a week ago and I’m just itching for it to be delivered
This really is good value for the money with the tool changer and all the accessories. Much like my own CNC the user interface is too basic out of the box. I had to buy a pendant so I can move the toolhead around and then also a macro tool with some presets. learning the CAM processes is never ending because each project will have something new you want to try. Overall an excellent video showing your noob experiences in with CNC.
Hey Lee, thanks a lot! Also for these insights. Need to get to my next CNC project soon!
Great video, thanks!
now we need 247milling!
The leave stock feature is so you can set stock left for a finish pass with a different tool
Absolute joke of a price when you can buy a Tormach PCNC 440 for $1k more and it's a legit CNC Machining center that will cut steel and has a much larger work space in all axis.
The all singing & dancing version of that (with the tool changer) is north of $15k though.
Looks like a nice small machine. How did they connect the Z axis to the X axis since there is this cover in between?
Nice video,could you share the link of the v-core mods u mentioned.Maybe a video idea for u install the AWD mod with 48v and see how fast u can go on this machine,which would be interesting to see since the gantry has higher mass than a v0
man, cnc machines built by professionals are soooo good, they basically pamper you with all the safey and instructions and customer support, they put the parameters in for you, you just choose the material from a list, it's awesome.... the only problem is, it's expensive. for a toy, it's expensive. it costs the same as a 5 year old used car. i CAN afford it, but it hurts knowing it's just a toy
Rough surface on the aluminum is probably from using a wrong end mill. Looks like you were using a single flute (one cutting edge) end mill intended for plastics. A two or three flute will give a much nicer surface finish.
Safe Z - how high up the tool moves between cuts - unless you're going over clamps and such, keep it as low as possible for faster machining. As long as it does not run into anything, Z0.1 is often plenty.
Flip machining - working on two sides of the part - NEVER indicate (position) parts off of the original piece of material UNLESS it's a machined block. Instead, cut out a pocket for the part in the wasteboard, then super glue the part into said pocket once one side and the perimeter have been cut out. That will make sure that the part is put back in the exact spot where it was originally instead of relying on it being perfectly in the middle of the stock (original piece of material), being located perfectly against the guide, not moving when it's re-clamped, and so on. Acetone will easily remove the glue afterwards.
This one is more of a personal choice, but I always cut the pocketed or more complex sides first. That way if something messes up I haven't wasted cutting whole other side, and it makes sure that all pockets, screw holes, and other features are where they should be relative to one another. Then just flip, champher the other side, and the part is ready.
I have one noob question:
Any of this video is real time speed? If so, omg that’s an awesome machine!
I just got some used CNC mini end mill that I’m about to wire to test it and so excited, now imagine how much you would be by having a carvera?
Excellent choice for your video, lots of real life comments, honesty about pricing, and final thoughts that are actually meaningful!
Thank you!
Thanks a lot! Some clips are fast forwarded and some are real-time.
You could judge this by listening to the sound while milling the alu parts.
very cool👍
Cnc is really cool, I used to work in cnc programming and manufacturing and since then I have dreamed of building or buying a small machine for my hobby room.
This machine seems reasonable but unfortunately the price tag is too high for me to justify it for the family...
For rpm don’t forget to calculate form cutting speed and get some tools with less stick out
Weirdest Porsche CarvEra I've ever seen!! But seriously, this looks like the equivalent of a Porsche for a hobbyist CNC. And I have to admit, I'm quite jealous (in a healthy way) of seeing people get these for free to review! Haha :) Looks like an awesome machine. There's so much functionality that this adds to projects, I think a machine like this needs to be in a workshop when you want to produce quality parts for small production runs of hobbyist machines and prototyping. Also a big plus that it uses USB-C.
I really had a problem with the V in CarVera when recording - 9 out of 10 wrong :-D
Hmmm yeah yeah, those "free" review units... 😅
nice one!
That is amazing! I wish they would ship to Brazil :(
Meu sonho uma dessa também hahahaha
They are Europe mostly. I'm on the east coast in Canada and it's prohibitively expensive
Nice vid, great machine (and company). *LOVE* my Carvera (car *v* era … You’re not Naomi “R’s Are Hard” Wu 😂 )
Thanks! I don't get the Naomi comparison though...
The price is great, especially having a tool changer
Good review, I definitely want one, but sadly I can't afford it. :p
@3:57 funny, the filter looks identical to the ones for my Xiaomi Vaccum Robot.
Absolutely, same on mine. Makes sense to use of the shelf parts!
This is an amazing machine, but it is too expensive. Great video.
The "Stock to leave" default 0.5m on the pocket operation is because it expects the user to program a finishing pass
Thanks, got it, but I hope it'll never be 0.5m :-)
Great video! But most surprising part - a basement in your garage?!
Thanks! Most surprising :-) It's a "basement garage" (don't know if that term exists). It's a hillside house and this garage is on the basement level, which is open at one side.
For this to be a smashout 'home user'-level success, $2500 is about the upper cap. As of this morning, the base machine is a cool $6.2k USD. For that price, you could have an industrial ADM machine that can print synthetic materials that will rival aluminum, or even get in some entry-level SLS metal printers. I'm not seeing $6,200 of kit here.
Is this machine similar to a 3d printer in that after you hit print it is hands off? I am so new to CNC I can't even say I'm new to CNC.
That's what's the video is about I guess - I recommend watching it :-)
Btw simon vez did test if switching the y axis to mgn 9 and it didnt provide any better input shaping results
I know, but the arrangement is different on a VC3 and it >would have been< worth a try.
How long did it take you to mill that ABS part ?
It was rather quick, I think it was less than one hour net milling (without preparation and post processing).
You need to do a video on the rat rig
I wish you tested the tolerances etc
How long did it take to machine one of your brackets?
If I remember correctly it’s around 1h45m net machining time
does the air assist of the carvera work well ?
Works well, I used it since the last try of the Alu part
I am really curious about the depth of the pockets that can be achieved w/o mist cooling or coolant. I would make so many projects with that machineee geeez THE MOLDS I would make hahaha
For that kind of money i would go with PrintNC or Milo 1.5
Could even give an Ender to EDM conversion a go.
I would have never wondered but since it's a "secret"... What type of PLA were you using? 😆
In this video it was aluminum 😎
With the influencer accessories package and after tax it's no longer 5000$ but over 8000$ in Germany.
I can have PCBway make quite a lot of parts for _that_ kinda money. Plus, I don't need an extra room as a workshop...
It boggles my mind this is so expensive. I bought a Langmuir MR-1 for $7000. Sure, I had to assemble it myself, but it is a much larger machine with way more power.
I wonder if he ever show the cnc again after this vid. Making fixtures to mill the second side annoying and often times even the first side can be a challenge.
Figure out feeds and speeds is often a chore. Making the CAM can be time consuming and you often have to tweak settings after the first milling attempt.
But aluminum is superior in strength and stiffness compared to FDM printing in the end. You also can mill a FDM print to get better tolerances or save a print.
I saved a print this week. Got the support distance wrong and couldn’t remove it. Used my CNC to cut out the support melted to the part.
Already used it again ;-) Feeds and speeds at default worked nicely already - why change?
And yeah sure: It's more effort to CNC mill in comparison to 3D printing, but as you know:
You get stronger parts out of it using aluminium designs and CAM programs.
Staying at 3 axis it's not that hard or time consuming.
oida, sicher das du noch nie was gefräßt hast ?🙂 will auch so ein Trumm.
Vor ca. 20 Jahren mal, mit einer Manuellen, ja :-) Hol dir das Trumm! Ein Traum...
I'd love to have a carvera for making led and motor drivers and psu parts for old tvs and consoles. I'm a 45 year old disabled dude who can never afford one. Pcbway nickel and dime me with shipping in my part of Canada.
Wow niceeee awesome
wow this is fully loaded ,this isnt going to be cheap
for 2500 you can get a queen ant pro cnc 1500mm X 1500mm
Also here from Stranger Parts factory tour 😂
0:52 In theory, theory and practice are the same thing, in practice they don’t.
Now you should rename your channel to just 24/7 😂
Yup, "printing" is rather limiting, right?
Exactly why I rebranded from 3DPrintViking to MakerViking a few years back. :)
@@MakerViking wait maybe should give my name a remake then aswell, any ideas ? xD
@@3DWolfEngineering In your case, maybe MakerWolf or MakerWolf Engineering, or maybe just Wolf Engineering?
@@MakerViking thanks, will think about that ... only issue people know me as 3DPrinterWolf
Grüsse aus NiederBayern xDD bist ja eh gleich um's Eck quasi
Ja Servus! Grüße zurück - woher genau?
@@247printing Deggendorf xD ursprünglich Passau.
Du bist Landshut die Gegend oder ? Am Bierkasten im Hintergrund bei 1:25 erkannt xDD
Sehr gut erkannt - Wittman Bier (Alkoholfrei) müsste das sein :-)
Deggendorf kenne ich gut, dort in der Nähe war ich auf dem Gymnasium!
Grüße!
Can it handle steel?
To a certain degree yes - there is a video on Makera TH-cam slowly milling steel
They should make a tiny one with an a4 sized build plate for pcbs only. Pcbway sponsor so many people that they gouge us little guys. If they stopped sponsoring everyone with 1k and over subs they could pass some savings on. I submitted a 2 sided gerber a few months ago and they wanted over 120usd shipped so i tried jlpcb and it was 7 bucks and i had the boards in a week. Pcbway want a fortune for the least amount of options of any board house ive tried.
Why not go for a Snapmaker?
man I don´t need another tool ! 😅
Tutorials please
I really want one of these so much, but the price will forever keep it out of reach for me.😥 I'm sue it' s worth the money, though.
Hey Peter, thanks for watching and commenting. It's definitely a lot of money, but hint: A way cheaper version is incoming (no toolchanger though).
Good to hear for sure. What makes the Carvera so attractive to me as someone who is even more of a noob than you, though, IS that it's a tool changer. I'll keep dreaming though, and maybe hope to win the lottery?😄
I am looking forward to seeing what else you do with it, however!
@reprinted3D they could make a mini pcb one and cut cost by 75 percent. I rarely design pcbs larger than 150x150mm. That moron great Scott has one and never uses it.
The real question we are here for is: When 1500mm/s cnc mill?
Although it's a very nice and well thought out machine, the price is simply too high for what it is. For that amount of money and a little bit of diy effort one can assemble a vastly more serious mill, with a 2.2kw spindle, rapidchange atc, cast iron frame, bigger workspace, etc... Around 3k would be a much more resonable price for a machine of this calber.
Did the it come with the wasp
Nah, it’s an optional extra for 1000 bucks
200 W spindle does not a high-end CNC make...
When considering that it is a small form factor desktop machine. I think it does
I get your point, but does a 2kW spindle make high end?
well it would be at least nice do drive a 6mm endmill at proper speeds @@247printing
Considering you can get a Langmuir MR-1 for around the same cost, and it has a 2.5 kW spindle, I'd say yes.
You're right, but this is for onesies and twosies, not a production machine - a minimally viable production CNC like Haas VF1 runs around $40K, needs 3 phase power and is the size of 2 sedans - what ordinary person is buying that besides someone who is making a living from machining???
Going to use it to make printer parts?
Yes, like you've seen in the video :-)
It's really expensive for what it is. Limited stiffness, limited machining area
Keine "Werbung" Einblendung? Oh oh gefährlich 😬
Ist keine halt Werbung 😉
0:06 roach on table
Hornet
what this printer cannot do?
3D printing 😅
$5000. Still too expensive.
They are releasing another model on kickstarter in a couple days. It is 2199 retail but they are offering discounts for early backers
And it’s already way too slow. When will we do 15000mm/s ?
Probably when we have 1000000 rpm spindle speed
5000 plus??? for a toy like that. Better off making 1 out of 80/20. Just a thought.
first
Congrats!
It’s not really high end, but a decent machine with good options for the money
I think one should add - High-End "Desktop" CNC mill -
@@247printing not high end
@@sciencesaves So then, I am all ears, please define "High-End Desktop CNC" for me, please. Really curious where to go.
@@247printing Maybe some CAD/CAM dental machines?
Though that's small work area and high (100+ k rpm) spindle.
Something like 8k USD to 100k
@@247printing It may not fit on a desktop but it fits through a standard door, the DATRON neo is as high end as you'll get.
Wait bro, you are using apple operating system instead of linux.
"You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them!
Great video. However, it shined through a lot that you were very happy to receive the gift and that colored every sentence in the video. I understand it, but it is still a bit annoying.
Thanks and no, not really. I am very self reflecting and I know exactly what made/makes me happy in this case: Applying my first CAM programs on that very (VERY!) well working tool changing machine. “Colored every sentence” is a total exaggeration - not sure if you watched the total video…
I mean it looks okay... it does a lot of stuff for you but honestly if you are looking to get into CNC buy a cheap machine and spend some money upgrading it and learning how it works.
You are paying for a lot of fancy features you dont really need. You're really not getting a robust machine here.
Review seem really biased , guess you get it for free but expected to market it for them
Great for Beginners with extra $5,999.00
5k?! LoL
62 hundred dollar
What's with the bugs crawling around the machine in the intro?
You'll see in the video 👍
Those glasses will NOT protect you. Please be responsible and get some proper glasses and let Carvera know about this. Those cheap glasses offer NO protection.
They are made of polycarbonate. They are fine for this purpose. Its not like he is taking paintballs to the face.
I believe he is talking about the laser glasses @2pist
6000 Dollars lol
$5000.00 ? Yikes! guess there is no reason to continue watching this vid....lol
What would be a reasonable price in your humble opinion?
$6,000.... for a Beginner....
Nope.
again same stuff from china with small work space and big price ...not for noobs
overpriced af