Moral Actions for Weak Reasons Are Cowardly | Jordan B Peterson
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ส.ค. 2024
- If you're interested in psychology, I recommend Fyodor Dostoyevsky's books. Crime and Punishment, in particular, is transformative reading.
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Jordan Peterson is possibly the most intellectually gifted communicator alive. Jordan give me hope.
English speaking maybe
Same. His words have changed my life in a positive way.
Jordan Peterson is a mirror of the human psyche... if a donkey looks in, no philosopher looks out. 😲🧐
I’ve heard plenty of better speakers but none of them have better things to say than JP
Lol
JP is a deep thinker - I think he's wonderful.
Literally in the middle of my second read of it amidst the pandemic. My eyes lit up when you started discussing it
Is the book hard to grasp?
The word literally wasn't necessary in this sentence at all. :) I think you're subconsciously using it to add emphasis to your point or to make the statement more dramatic. It was on its own. Pretty cool that you're on your second pass. I'm almost finished with my first
@@deepalijoshi4631 Not at all. Super worth while read
@@tracyhouser4100 alright, thanks!
I loved reading this novel. I then read Nana.
3:00 I call this type of student "The Lurker."
"A man with a why can bear almost any how" - Nietzsche.
So, Raskolnikov doesn't have any strong reason, a strong why since they're mostly based on materialistic and superficial viewpoints. Instead, it resulted in him being spiritually tormented by his own conscience. If his own family members were to be tortured by the landlord lady, then he would have had a possible strong reason for actually murdering her, at least a stronger one.
What the book has taught me is that some reasons, that can be presented quite valid and, perhaps, admirable, still have to be put under scrutiny.
The strong reasons, the strong why's can be assaulted by so many questions and doubts and still stand firm whereas the weak ones fall easily. If they don't seem to fall then rest assured that spiritual torment will befall anyone who treads underminingly upon dangerous waters unprepared.
Inunnguaq J. O. B. Larsen Not the main idea but it is fair
@Count Rufus Many have went ways that harmed them in the pursuit of truth and wanting to find the answer for the human nature. Some went insane due to the impurity of ideology like Soviet Russia, China, Venezuela, Cuba, Nort Korea etc., others took their own lives due to the amount of heaviness emotions can bring about, some became apathic and cold-hearted in failing to deal wtih it, some became insane for looking far too deep into the abyss and few managed to live their lives as intended. Those whose lives went as intended still experienced harm, not by themselves but due to the envy, spite and resentment of others. For anyone who was capable of helping people for the better, whilst suffering the unfairness by people with selfish intent, have always meant to be the sacrifical lamb, for it will always be at the cost of people who did not want any harm on others and only wanted the good for them.
And so, doubt begets doubt. Allowing doubt to take root and letting it grow too much will make anyone doubtful of anything, even process, progress and choosing action, causing slower and slower progression.
So what if why's collapse? Despite that I believe in the Bible and being an existentialist, believing in taking responsibility of own choices, even the unforeseeable ones, I still think that everything is based in meaninglessness, for existentialism is based on nihilism. How can I possibly ever know that whatever choice I make is decent at the very least in every conceivable way? It is impossible to know the unforeseeable outcomes of the choices we make, otherwise it would render the word unforeseeable meaningless or turn anyone into an omniscient being. Even if I don't know the endless amounts of outcomes, I still have to act and believe in the act that I do at least doesn't actively make it worse for those around me and for myself, even if it were to have unintended outcomes that is detrimental, given that happens. It's absurd that what I choose to do can have, and could easily have a by-effect that I did not intend, and some would say that it is pointless in trying to do a decent act. Still, I choose to try and act.
Being an absolutist about being certain and sure that every thing is proper is quite similar to tyrannical control. Being a doubter just cause eventual stagnation. So, what does that leave me? Something inbetween those two extremes.
Here I often turn to Kierkegaard who had so many reasons to succumb to absolute despair and meaninglessness, he wrote (paraphrasing): "If you marry you'll regret it, if you don't marry you'll regret as well. You'll regret it either way and it's to learn living with that regret that we can go on."
Were his viewpoints materialistic or superficial? Raskolnikov would have claimed that he wanted to use the money to finance a moral life, but that's not really true, so let's get to the real reason. He wanted to kill the pawnbroker, so he could prove himself to be a superman. I would not say that either of those two reasons are materialistic. Whether you accept the motive Raskolnikov initially claims to have, or his real one, they are both spiritual matters. One is for the greater good, the other is to validate himself, which could have been of great importance to him, given what happens to him when he realises that he was noy a superman
I also wouldn't say that they were superficial, for the same reason.
I might give a differenet reason for Raskolnikov going through his sudden change after the murder. I think he was spiritually conflicted.
I finished The Brothers Karamazov yesterday and a character (Ivan) reminded me of Raskolnikov. They both have used logic to decide that there is no God and as such no morality. Ivan claims that there is no morality but is tortured by the conflict between his intellect and his heats overwhelming compassion for the suffering of the world. It's not a one to one conparison, but it's similar.
Raskolnikov thought hinself a superman, but then when he commits the murder, he messes up everything. He doesn't even get that much money for it. Then he is faced by his hypocracy, when he leaves the money under some rock for months. He never cared about the money. Then why did he murder her? For his own narcassism, disguised as altruism. Like Ivan, this tears him apart spiritually. They also both arrived here because of a conflict because a belief in a lack of morality, but the comparisons end there.
Maybe Raskolnikov doesn't even fully understand what has changed in him, his talks with Sonia showed how confused he was about his motives and Dostoevsky did say that he still felt he was in the right when he he turned himself in, but on some level he must know.
@@ceilingfanenthusiast6041 No matter how much one say Oh Lord, Oh Lord it does not ensure a place where the Patriarch is. The actions will be needed to be in alignment with the spoken words, otherwise neither are weighted by the other. And so, Raskolnikov's actions and their consequences (whereby he didn't expect this spiritual torment) are not in alignment with his desired result. So, whose words and actions would I weight more; one who goes and aids the weak by being there for them personally and speaks fondly about it afterwards or by one who speaks highly and importantly about it for months only to end doing one day of decent work. Of course, do not punish he who attempts to do the right thing, but the former one is preferred over the other.
And what do you know about "real reason"? What makes your own subjective point of view more real than the rest? Lest you want to exalt yourself over others through demeaning implicity and look down on others by claiming truth for yourself, be vigilant about what words are used and how, for the why can be easily be claimed to be whatever oneself choose it to be due to our humane inability to see the authenticity of the other's inner world.
Lo! Raskolnikov wasn't a superman, given that he desired to be one and thought to become one through the heinous action of killing someone off for feeling oppressed. His family values were low compared to the other reasons he viewed to be more valid justifying his desire to rid off the landlord lady. He became even more tormented when his family treated him well, wounding his ego further. That is how I see it. If it is right/more real or not is not for me to decide.
Ivan is described to be an intellectual socialist who enjoys putting his little brother in nearly impossible position regarding faith, but still felt conflicted in doing so. His mephistopelean argument does sound sound for young and inexperienced Alexey but it doesn't answer the everlasting question of suffering given to humsnity that Alexey wants to find the possible answer for.
Raskonikov met his own hypocrisy, yes, because his actions and consequences were not as he desired them to be. We don't know if he would experience the same torment if he was giveneven greater and stronger reasons to kill of the landlord lady. One of them is to torture his family members instead of her own family member. We don't know and we don't need to know. All we know is he was spiritually tormented by doing what he did.
I think these types of older lecture videos from Jordan are my favourite videos of his, before any of the hullabaloo started. These students must count themselves so lucky to have been taught by him.
I want to see you back man...
André Ventinhas
You and I both 🖤
I want to see him at his best. Look for the next book! Beyond Order.
HE IS....kinda. His daughter RECENTLY interviewed him on her YTpodcast about his entire medical battle. CHECK IT OUT
He’s back!!! And going strong! 💪
One thing I've learned, avoid the cowards , don't fall in the trap of pity for the fearful, once you turn your back there is a big chance to get a blade between your shoulderblades
Xero Punt I would like to hear more of your perspectives
@Psychonaut you make it sound like you have no threshold, as though your resilience knows no bounds, as though you could never break. For all you know you would have cracked alot sooner than jordan did. Also a measure of practicality is needed in life perhaps thats why he used medication, Its not always a pissing contest to prove how strong you are.
@Psychonaut i don't understand how you're able to judge someone when you have little to no information on their background? Frankly, he might have had a life twice as hard as your's, hell i might have as well, how would you know? Youre judging an outcome with zero clue of what created it.
Psychonaut so edgy, watch out guys the dude who’s gone through hell but feels the need to argue in comment threads is here
Psychonaut keep consuming hallucinogens. I’m sure that’s not why you’re ego tripping and I’m definitely sure that’s not what you were alluding to when speaking of “healthy alternatives to addictive pharmaceuticals” lol bye bye
If you can't effectively deal with the reality you find yourself in, you change it. You make a decision that is truly intelligent and beneficial to all. Simple observation shows that anger and violence has never solved a single problem. An outside enemy exists only if there is an enemy within.
@Psychonaut Once you have calmed the mental storm with benzos, psychoanalysis may help to deal with the painful shadows/archetypes in the psyche.
Anger and violence can absolutely solve problems. It's just rarely used in that fashion.
@@bigjon9508 Indeed, even the Buddha taught his followers not to be good natured doormats when faced with aggressors but use the assailant's ignorance and stupidity against themselves.
Bodhidharma the first patriarch of Zen Buddhism and founder of Shaolin KungFu method of self defense pointed out that anger is a more useful emotion than despair and can be converted to useful energy. As Bruce Lee pointed out...anger is like fire and destroys everything, be like water.
Damn
The world needs more people like Jordan Peterson. ✌🏽
Nice to see your channel still active JP. Hope you are on the mend, buddy boy!
Got the book from the video, Crime and Punishment. It's one of those book that's not recommend to finish in one setting. It will really open you up, take it slowly have a brake after reading a chapter.
Thanks for all the insightful analogies Jordan Peterson ❤️
I love that I can be folding washing and listening to such quality lectures at the same time.
Thank you sir!
The mask of fake virtue is self righteousness for the wrong reason, which is essentially moral cowardice or purposeful ignorance . The crux is in THE reason for being self righteous in that moment your belief came to be tested.
I love learning from these videos
Magnificent presentation!
3:43 Steel-man is the term I hear most often.
Tip: Always click SHOW MORE on JBP vids (e.g. here for list of recommended reading).
I like some of the things Peterson says. And can relate some of the things to my own experiences. Having finished some ancient descriptions and actual classical work on philosophy, this lecture is not by any means philosophy. Well it’s psychology? No, psychology is philosophy. What makes a good person good, or repairs a broken constitution are attributes that lead to good living which is a fine grain of understanding problems and criterion for good.
gave me goosebump
Hope you are OK, Mr Peterson. Looking forward to see you back.
2:51 brugh we see you in there
Lol
That’s a very interesting point by Dr. Peterson about steel manning the opposing argument/viewpoint. Polar opposite from Ayn Rand’s comically inept villains.
17 dislikes are pawnshop owners.
“Meta-real is more real than Real” interesting phraseology. Would love to wrap my head around that.
It's much easier to commit genocide (and EUGENICS) than it is HARD TO MURDER ONE PERSON. With one down, some people will cry ABOUT such tragedy. With one million down, that is just a statistic.
"People burn what they are DISGUSTED by!!!" - JBP
Iron Ballz Stalin’s quote
@@Biz555 sup cutie!!! Uncle Stalin will take care of you :-D
@Psychonaut well, you try his job of millions of people trying to take a stab at him... as a sudden celebrity... be perfect... that's the only way to survive as a star... the least you have to worry about now is HIM... DON'T DISGUARD THE MESSAGE FOR THE CUP...
Iron Ballz he is far stronger than someone who goes commenting on youtube videos about someone else’s shortcomings for the sake of self-gratification.
Water memory biology ) mental structure existence reflecting
I've read a few, and find them great from the dialogue and the twists, thought provoking, but all end up a bit defensive/reactive for the status quo (of Tsarist Russia). How then does a civil society move forward with ideas and structure, rather than stagnating with the embedded inequity? Nhilism is one thing, but blind 'belief' is as bad?
Missing the point: you don't have to believe in anything; just be a better person and don't add to the misery.
@@winstonsmith9533 that's a very passive approach, which may be the best in the end. But it lets the sociopaths run wild in the meantime! 'Belief' wasn't my emphasis, in fact I see it as a problem.
@@Bull761 Life is hard.
Meta-real. Nice. Peterson is the progeny of McKenna and Leary
Killing genuinely evil people isn’t weak
Omg that's so badass
and who gets to be the judge of evil? you?
@@keanumorris505 yes
There is always a better option. a more moral option. Aim for moral growth. not to merely kill. because one does not just merely kill.
What book was he recommending to read by dotsoevksy?
Crime and Punishment I believe.
Death grips
Crime and Punishment.
Here’s a link to Jorden Peterson’s official channel: th-cam.com/users/JordanPetersonVideos
After all the Carl Jung and neitchze maybe it is time I give dosteoyevsky a chance 🧐
so the strong iron man metaphor is the precursor of the minimax algorithm
Does this channel benefit Jorden Peterson, or are you just “clipping” his material for you own benefit?
Title does not reflect the material.
♻️🌏🕵🏻♂️☯️👣
Reasons may be "weak " to Peterson, but not to the individual.
I still would have spent the money. The book didn't have the "intended" impact for me.
This idea is almost terrifying imho. Is he going to put people down for not having wisdom? I def. MUST watch this video! :P
the title has nothing to do with the content
Listening to him is like trying to drink from a fire hydrant. Like, a little slower please for the people in the back who have never thought about any of this lol.
Yes Peterson, eat your own medicine!
Its a charter in a story, its a construct strawman of what an atheist is. :/
Why
They say you're bad for being good, then they say you're bad for being bad. It's difficult to recognize the difference. Too much confusion when it comes to ethics.
The title of your video does not pertain to the actual video or anything he said lmao.
1. Peterson assumes that "strawmen arguments" have been made and that people feel good about knocking them down. Fallacious reasoning. This in and of itself can also be a strawman. Saying that a persons argument is a strawman and then feeling good about saying its a strawman. This goes to show how much peterson has been effected by these online debates and debates in general.
2. Killing the old lady was moral relative to certain people, but immoral relative to her. Always. So moral action doesn't require reasoning to be strong or weak. They simply require them to be for a reason. There is no such thing as a "weak reason" for doing something. Its just that selfishness is often considered weak and selflessness strong. Saving another person from getting beaten is morally strong. Protecting them from being beaten by holding them in a cell, is morally weak. Neither has anything to do w/ assessing the morality of the action relative to the participants.
3. The extreme guilt felt was a result of Raskolnikovs identity of himself and it was so ingrained that its destruction was too painful to bear and he lost his mind, in a sense, as a result. This was a consequence of the times, and an environment. Horrible yes, but perfectly natural. And will continue to happen this way throughout history. Peterson misses that point. That teaching history doesn't prevent its repetition. Its a myth to believe that those who are taught history will not repeat it.
4. Why does Rask feel guilty? It would be far better to continue w/ that point in a psychology class, but peterson doesn't because it fits his narrative.
5. One could rationalize what was done to the old woman and paint her death as "deserving it". Specifically if i just "choose a side".
5. Brainwashing starts. There is no such thing as MORE REAL than real. It simply doesn't exist. There is only real. This is why i would never let peterson teach my kids. His ideology leaks into his teachings. Real is real. Dostoys characters weren't real. They may have been based on real psychology and real feelings, and real conditions. IE they are symbols of the real, but they aren't meta truths.
6. Change the way you look and act in the world based on listening to the JIST of a persons experience? This is how brainwashed idiots become brainwashed idiots. Only total morons listen to the jist of anything and then change the way they act in the world.