Step by Step: How to Craft Your Ideal Magic System
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- Framework for Designing New Magic Systems: docs.google.com/document/d/1k...
Ever been mesmerized by the flick of a wand in Harry Potter or the mystical realms of Middle-Earth? Join me as I unveil my personal Spellcraft Secrets to create your best magic system, breathing life into your narrative’s mystical essence.
Whether you’re a writer, a storyteller, or simply enchanted by the unseen forces that govern fantastical realms, this guide is your key to crafting magic systems that resonate through every fiber of your world. Drawing from the mastery of renowned authors and the essence of historical and mythical magic, I'll guide you through a journey of crafting a magic system that not only enchants but also deepens the intrigue of your narrative.
00:00 Foundation
00:18 Understanding Magic Systems
00:56 High-Level Frameworks
02:40 Magical Sub-Categories
06:16 Crafting Your Magic System
10:10 Popular Magic Systems
12:35 Conclusion
![On Writing: hard magic systems in fantasy [ Avatar l Fullmetal Alchemist l Mistborn ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iMJQb5bGu_g/mqdefault.jpg)
Transform Your Fantasy Writing in Just 5 Minutes a Week: Sign Up for the Tale Tinkerer Newsletter here => thetaletinkerer.com/newsletter/
One of my favourite things when it comes to magic systems are ones that the characters can figure out like a branch of science. Especially if we get to see the process of them figuring it out. There's something just really satisfying about going through all the stages of building understanding about this weird thing.
This can be incredibly interesting to follow, yes, and probably works better in a law-governed magic system where there actually are rules and facts to discover rather than just getting a better understanding of something that always will remain mysterious and unpredictable :)
I had similar ideas, Avatar is like this, somewhat
Same, like Naruto and One Piece
the idea that magic is not a science but an artform, where its users can experiment and discover within the system to find interesting quirks and abilities, is one that i find the most rewarding. It's kind of like the difference between an ameteur cook who follows each recipe exactly, and a professional chef who isn't afraid to stray from the beaten path to find new and extravagant flavours.
@@Mahlak_Mriuani_Anatmanyes somewhat. But. Think it remains mysterious but has things like it being a relatively hard, magic system, spirituality, and the principles discussed in the show, having some thing like martial arts to ground it while also focusing on the importance of mental strength , and health. As well as the fact that if an element is found in your environment, it’s up to the specific individual and the adaptability of that element, and what can and can’t be done. There’s always a great bend, or pushing past the limits with actual justification
I think what makes a soft magic system great and still useable is to make it a hard magic system in disguise. Shroud the inner mechanisms of your world's magic system in mystery for the sake of your audience, but make sure you understand what makes it tick in order to maintain consistency. That way, slowly pulling back a little of the curtain feels like an earned reveal, not contrived exposition.
That is a great approach, yes, and something I tend to go for as well (especially as I prefer the control by having that in-depth knowledge myself). The risk here though is to spend a lot more time on the design of systems that aren't necessarily vital for the reader's understanding while being important for the writing process anyway.
In the book I’m writing, it’s more about discovering the magic for oneself. The MC, when asked about magic in the beginning, had no idea what the magic actually did and just thought it was cool, but she slowly discovered what makes her more or less powerful and the circumstances that shape her abilities. It’s a book that starts off soft and ends hard.
That's not a soft magic system though, it's a hard magic system the reader doesn't get the details on.
To me at least, the presence or absence of clear rules and limitation is the deciding factor, not weather it was communicated to the reader or not.
I feel this is the best approach if magic plays a really big role in the narrative but is also mysterious and alien, or just weird. It leaves the reader with little information, in opposition, if you will, to Sanderson's first law, but at least there are rules in the background that should prevent the author from pulling solutions (and new problems) out of their posterior end, ideally because the solutions are just thought of alongside the problems.
One of the worst escalations of perceived issues with an aspect of the magic system causing an unnecessary escalation in the narrative, because the author apparently didn't understand said magic system, is probably the whole time turner thing in Harry Potter.
When we see the thing in action, we see the same events that happened before play out, just with added context. This indicates, to me at least, a closed time loop, where nothing can be changed by the time traveler.
But someone had to ask why nobody goes back further in time to fix tragedies, and instead of presenting the easy answer that it's not possible, all time turners get destroyed at the earliest chance, so they are no longer available to be used to fix things they couldn't have fixed anyway. Only for one to show up in the stage play that ignores all the rules implied by their first appearance.
Interesting. So basically have it saying....
Soft Magic is just Hard Magic we don't yet understand.
"Magic is just science we don't understand yet".
@@zombiedemon1762 For me it depends whether or not there are clear rules to begin with, even from the point of the author.
A detailed crafted magic system with clear rules that is presented to the user as something omnious because they lack insights (through the perspective of the characters) is still a hard magic system to me, yes.
One system I am developing for a book I am working on is that the very few born with magic have a discernable affinity for an element that can be classified as either a "seed" or "pillar". Those with a pillar start out powerful and with a set mana reserve. However, that power and reserve does not grow. So pillars often have to grow by discovering new ways to use what they have. Seeds start out with a very small amount of power and mana, but the more they use it, the greater the power and mana supply becomes. However, it is wholely dependant on how diligent one is with their practice. Mana is developed by the body, though certain plants and elixirs can supplement it, but have a withdrawal effect. There are 4 known elements to the denizens, but 8 actual elements in total.
Sounds quite intriguing as a foundation as long as you ensure there is plausability when it comes to the limits that seeds can develop their mana too (unless you're going for a theoretically unlimited power level in your world/story) :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer The limit is how much the person's body can possess. The body possesses a limiter, similar to the real phenomenon known as Hysterical Strength. The body prevents itself from developing more mana than the body can handle, and prevents the person from using too much at once. In a crisis situation, however, the limiter can be overcome, allowing the person to use 100% of their mana. This of course has a backlash, in that the body goes into mana deficit, and must rest and gain nourishment in order to kickstart mana production again. If left in a deficit state, then the organs will start shutting down after one hour.
@@robertsilvermyst7325Great concept. What are the elements? Are they naturally found/cultivated since you mentioned plants and elixirs or are they engineered?
@@user-pd8lc3ow6x The known elements are Mineral (Earth), Fire, Water and Air. The unknown elements are Psychic, Arcane (Manipulating mana in its purest state), Blessing and Curse. They are blood affinities, developed by one's ka at birth (Going off of Ancient Egyptian mythology, of how the soul is comprised of the Ba or eternal soul, and the ka or ego/persona). It is rare in the world (which is currently in a sort of Stone Age), where only 20% of the population might be born with a seed, and 10% might be born with a pillar. Mana flows in the blood as a byproduct. So far, elixirs and alchemy have not been invented yet, though manabloom elixirs made from manabloom plants, once created, have the following effect: The suppliment the imbiber with a secondary mana source. When casting, it will draw in equal parts from the body's natural mana and the manabloom plant mana. If the caster is very low in natural mana when casting, it can cause a dangerous condition of mana deficiency, drawing from the caster's life energy in place of blood mana.
@@robertsilvermyst7325 Sounds neat. Is there a spiritual or a mental component to it? Is visualization important to either the structuring or end result? Can you "unison" with others to add or multiply effects beyond what individuals are capable of? If so, can this backlash if there is disharmony? Does that mean being "seeds' are fat to maximize mana😂? Is there certain lines of reasoning that makes certain elements easier? If so, have they given rise to certain philosophies? In turn, have they made countries where the distinction is in part tied to certain proclivities or elements or even largely mono elemental areas due to something akin to mental inheritance?
This some real solid information. Most videos on magic systems, are usually quite long and a majority of those videos can bring anxiety when crafting a magic-based world. However; you had me invested from start to end. Integrating the steps so masterfully, it made me think I was taking to a veteran of the craft. I tip my hat to you sir, from one fantasy explorer to another.
Thank you for the kind words. This is really appreciated and I'm glad you found something useful in the video :)
Two more systems (books) worth looking into; The Craft from The Books of Craft series by Max Gladstone and the (rigorous to the point of being science) system created by Patrick Rothfuss in the Name of The Wind series.
Thank you for the suggestions. I've heard of the second one but didn't check out either so far. Will definitely try to find time for that :)
My magic systems always come with a catch in my stories. They are basically messing with reality and that's dangerous. Since I'm a big horror fan and a lot of the stories I write are horror, I add terrifying things to my magic systems. Like mind erasure, reality warping going wrong and accidentally summoning a being from outside reality, body horror caused by misused healing magic, etc. Magic has hard rules in Entropy where it's treated as an esoteric but studied and dangerous thing where you have to have a magic license to use it. In Martyres Artificialis (an SCP/Megaman inspired psychological/cosmic horror/mystery) thaumaturgy is dangerous and has a lot of consequences but also benefits. Some examples are creating sentient beings composed of data, creating portals to different realms and turning people into Cronenberg horrors.
"Mind Erasure" would certainly be something that makes me think twice about using any magic at all :) Those are some serious "catches" you are integrating there, I'm sure that puts a unique spin on things compared to something like high fantasy.
Interesting thought with that, an actual permanent mental cost to power magic creating mentally warped or bipolar wizards. Like, let's say you use emotions to fuel magic, either divided by certain emotions towards certain fields or powerful emotions in general, and it drains the emotional weight of certain acts or memories. Like, say happiness to cast a shield requires a happy memory but it in turn mutes the happiness of that memory, also potentially decreasing fondness for whoever or whatever gave you that happiness, artificially creating something akin to sociopaths, emotionally dead husks, or people engaging with strange or extreme behavior to attain emotional highs for the magic. Another vector that I've actually used, in regards to rituals, is creating a group of people that deliberately abstain from certain acts to reduce the costs of rituals by increasing the emotional weight to things. Like ritual sacrifice, basically. You abstain from killing or consuming flesh and so when you have to use a ritual you can sacrifice a lamb whereas a normal person who eats meat will have to sacrifice an innocent child and a soldier or murderer would have to sacrifice their first born.
It's more like this. Psychomagic (a type of magic that specifically effects the mind) requires willpower, sanity and mental fortitude to use. If you don't keep up your mental health and you're a mage who uses psychomagic, you're pretty much fucked. Especially since negative supernatural entities (like negative mortal ghosts, negative yokai or fae or even demons) see mortals with mental vulnerability as an easy target for inhabiting and possession, which can thoroughly mess with a person's mind and body leaving them at best traumatized and at worst dead.
I really like the idea of combining innate magic with artifact based magic. Not anyone can use artifacts, you have to be born with magic to wield the power in each artifact.
That is actually quite interesting. Personally never seen this done yet. It adds another layer of complexity to the magic but in a way that would be easy for readers to understand. Definitely something worth exploring :)
@TimeTinkerer Maybe magic artifacts choose certain people based on their power and compatibility. Perhaps their personality and willpower are important because each artifact has an intelligence of its own (be it vessels for once great wizard/magical being or have taken a conscious of its own do to its magical nature and purpose). Artifacts created for war and destruction might seek warmongers and tacticians, while artifacts storing hidden knowledge might seek scholars and sages.
Harry Potter...
I have to say as someone whose watched a lot of worldbuilding videos, especially those that pertain to magic, this was amazing. Probably the most helpful video I’ve watched to be honest. The only thing I would’ve added was an example of yourself making a system by randomly selecting from the set of foundations you chose. Would’ve been interesting to see what you came up with.
Thank you for the kind words, glad to hear there was some value in it for you. In later videos I've started to include more and more examples already (like seen in the "7 Key Elements of EPIC CREATURE DESIGN in Worldbuilding" video for example). Currently, I kicked off a step by step worldbuilding series with the first video live already (last one on the channel right now). This will get into magic later again as well and see a bit more depth in terms of practical usecases from my side. Hope this will be something for you when I get that far :)
The most unique magic/power system I've ever read is the one in Lord of the Mysteries. Makes me wonder how hard and how long the author spent thinking before he completed the system.
Author name?
What kind of system?
This video helps me clear things up on my magic system. Really helpful. Thanks!!!
Thank you for the kind comment, really appreciate it. I'm glad that you got some value out of the video :)
Have you heard of the "rational - nebulous" spectrum? Its axis is meant to be perpendicular to that of the hard-soft one, and is supposed to describe how deep a given system is as opposed to just how understood by the reader it is.
No, I didn't hear that one before but thank you for bringing it up. Will add it to my research list right away :)
Hey i just wanna say you gave some grave insights and helped me navigate around the issue. Couldnt have done this without you:
Im thinking of two systems for my world. One will be "spiritual" magic bestowed by diety or some ancient spirit. The other one will be simillar to the witcher where some people will be able to harness the energy around them. But both of them have some sort of catch.
The catch of the first will be "transporting". When for example warlock wants to use flame spell, that flame comes from the realm of his patron via small portal in warlocks hand, and the actual catch is that portal serves as a door and anything can come through - hence they are even more at a mercy of whims of their patron.
As for the energy method, it will be more in line with academia. Those wizards will be alternating very fabric of reality and one singular stray thought can cause immense damage, thus they need disciplined mind.
This magic system as a whole will be perceived a heretical (except clerics with their gods-given power) since they both directly go against established pantheon. First one directly bypasses pantheon by striking deals with spirits, and the other method goes against will of the gods and is subjecting their (gods) work to a whim/desire of a wizard.
(Brief version)
I will just leave this here, and thank you!
Thank you for taking the time to share this and leave the positive feedback. This is really appreciated :)
I like the risk aspect of the warlock focused magic, it almost has an aspect of chaos to it. That certainly can lead to interesting storytelling opportunities.
Very good information! I found some issues with my magic system while writing (I created mine before knowing much about magic systems) and wanted to rework the system from the ground up, so this definitely helped, thank you!
This is a great video essay. It has helped me already with my world-building.
I would love an expanded description/explanation of your frameworks. I am finding that my magic system is using all of them to some degree or another. So I could be overcompensating my system or not fully understanding how to apply your frameworks to my system.
Two magic systems which are pretty neat: One from the series Spirals of Destiny and another from Unconventional Heroes series.
Sadly I think the writer of Spirals of Destiny wrote himself into a corner with how powerful the main character got and it now seems to be in a permanent hiatus. But he has 3 different forms of magic 2 of seem well thought out.
Edit: Corrections and added comment.
I am glad to hear that you found some value in the video. I will be diving a bit deeper into certain magic related things in some of the next videos. I'll see if I can extract some things of the framework for deeper ideas as well :)
I made a magic system a while ago.
Here it is…
In this world, everything has energy contained within. Everything, animate or inanimate has a raw form of this energy that they describe as magic due to their limited understanding of it.
Some humans have learned to manipulate this energy and transform it into the element that they understand it as.
In order to wield this energy, one must understand its nature, and in order to understand it, one must be able to visualize what they want to happen, and guide the energy in the proper way to make what they want to happen, actually happen.
Out of 100 aspiring mages, only 1 will have the mentality to wield the energy effectively, while all others can barely perform menial feats such as sparking with a snap of their fingers, or gently lifting small pebbles.
This magic can only take the form of something natural. Any attempts to force it into an unnatural state will result in catastrophic consequences.
Of these natural forms of magic, there are three classes. Elemental manipulation (Mana), Atom stitching also known as Mending (Ether), and animation also known as necromancy (Magick).
Elemental manipulation offers the wielder control over the forces of nature (wind, fire, lightning, water, ice, etc).
To wield the power of the elements, one must understand the nature of each element and the relations between them that keep the balance in the world.
Atom Stitching is the use of Ether to intertwine the atoms of an object and fuse them into one object. This can also be used to stitch wounds without a scar, although it's extremely dangerous and meticulous.
To use Mending, the wielder has to understand the form of an atom and the power that they hold.
And lastly, Animation is the use of Magick (spiritual energy) to give an inanimate object a replicant of a soul, and this can work on new corpses for until their bodies decompose.
To use Animation magic, one must understand death and the soulless in its entirety.
What do you think?
And then there’s the origin of magic, which is a whole other story.
A very long time ago, there was no magic in the world. The people of the world were constantly waging meaningless wars on each other for the sole reason of brutality and violence. These wars occurred frequently and lasted anywhere from a decade, to several centuries. To the point where children grew up to never know the feeling of security or safety.
But one day, in the midsts of one of these century long wars, a solitary man climbed to the peak of the tallest mountain in the world, Barrier mountain. The man found a rift at the top, a tear in the fabric of space. This rift lead to a whole different dimension.
From the rift, the man received a vision from the other side. This alternate dimension was unformed, and raw. The energy of creation swirling pointlessly with no conduit for creation itself
When the man reached out his hand towards the barrier, he felt the essence of this power. And as his flesh came into contact with the silver liquid that made up the tear in space, it ruptured, releasing magic on the world for the first time.
The man who was standing at the very place of the rupture, was struck with the full brunt of raw magic, infusing itself in his very soul, imprinting his eyes with the silvery sheen of unbridled, purely focused instinct.
This man, now with his near infinite control of his newfound powers, and his hyper-enhanced instincts that he dubbed "Feral Instinct", became the first Mage. Amarin Regalis, The Mage used his powers to put an end to the foolish wars of the world.
The warmongering kings of these various nations, fearing for their lives, negotiated terms of surrender with the Mage, and he was appointed the High King of Arem (the human continent, also the only known land mass at that time).
But even though magic had been released on the world, doesn't mean that the people discovered how to wield it until another 3 centuries had passed.
Along with his powers, the first Mage also gained immunity to time, near immortality. And his mere existence was more than enough to scare the humans into never waging another war again.
But it wouldn't be lore without proper cause and effect, so here's a bit of that. Also due to the release of magic on the world, some species of animals absorbed a portion of that energy and underwent a mangling transformation into beasts.
These monsters, afflicted with what I'm calling Mana Derangement, or Ether madness, or something like that, lost any semblance of consciousness, and became bloodthirsty and malevolent.
In killing a monster, the magical energy stored inside of it is released as a new type of energy that the humans referred to as Chaos.
As this Chaos left monster after monster as each of them died, slain by humans, natural causes, infighting, the released energy was all attracted to one spot (for lore reasons that I have yet to figure out) and it converged, and over time, took a form of an eldritch entity.
And eventually, it gained consciousness and began wreaking havoc on the world as the embodiment of true chaos.
The Mage witnessed the destruction caused by the beast from afar, and concerned for the wellbeing of his people, he engaged in combat with it.
The battle raged for weeks without rest, each day only growing more and more intense and destructive.
Not even 3 days in, the forest they had battled in was completely swept away in The pure explosion of raw energy that was the battle between the First Mage, and the Embodiment of Chaos.
The battle continued for 3 weeks, until finally, everything went silent.
No more rushing energy, no more crashing explosions, no more clashing of magics.
The Mage and Chaos merely stood and stared at each other, until they conversed for the first time in the 3 weeks of battling that had just done.
No one knows what they said, but when they stopped, they each held out their hands and unleashed their most powerful attacks to finish the duel once and for all.
As they fired their spells at each other, there occurred yet another rupture of pure magic on the world, just as intense as the first one at the peak of Barrier Mountain had been.
The Mages power of Creation and the Embodiment of Chaos' Chaotic magic mingled, and resonated with each other, and with the souls of the humans in the world.
Because of their shared nature, this new magic imprinted itself on the very souls of the humans, giving them the ability, but not the understanding to wield it.
Each person has an elemental attribute that is engraved in their soul. They can only wield the element that resonates with their engraving, and if they try to force it, they "shatter their soul" and lose any semblance of sanity.
They had to figure out how to wield it by themselves, because in that final blast of energy, both the Mage, and Chaos were destroyed.
The mage was cast into a cycle of reincarnation with a 1,000 year interval, and Chaos was shattered into three shards.
The first shard of Chaos was thrown into the reincarnation cycle along with the mage, the second shard took the form of an eternal white flame, and the third shard was completely destroyed, leaving no hope that it would ever return.
This sounds quite interesting but I do see a challenge here as well. While you explain it as one magic system, I personally read it like an "umbrella system" with three different forms of magic underneath. Based on your description, what they (elemental, atom and animation) actually do is quite different and as such might need individually tailored considerations.
Now, I'm not saying this is bad (I have more than one distinct magic too) but I felt it's worth pointing out to keep an eye on :)
Atom stitching sounds the most intruiging to me, especially as a different form of healing compared to traditional fantasy.
Of course, thank you as well for the in-depth comment. Love seeing more and more people join the discussions and share with one another.
@@TheTaleTinkerer thank you.
It’s really reassuring to get positive feedback on my ideas.
And as for your advice, that is definitely a challenge.
Since hardly anyone can actually effectively use magic, it’s considered taboo in some places, and miraculous in others, and in some places, it’s thought to be a myth.
So finding a way to integrate their abilities into their everyday lives would be quite the task for me.
I’ll definitely work on expanding on Atom stitching specifically, it’s probably the most underdeveloped of the three classes of magic.
The reason I originally replaced normal healing magic with atom stitching is because, I’ve always found magic sparkles and poof your healed to be an interesting concept, but very overused to the point that it’s a cliche. I still plan of making that a part of my story, but it’ll be more like…
A new type of magic created by combining Ether and Magick to seal a breach (in flesh, stone, space, relatively anything) for those unskilled in Mending.
But anyway, thanks for the feedback and for the advice.
I’ll definitely work on expanding my system.
When I wrote my magic system(s) for my fantasy world, I opted for a unique blend of Hard and Soft while focusing on a high magic setting.
On one hand, you have all these different methods of obtaining and controlling magic. Pacts with deities, studying mystical texts, being born with magical abilities, etc.
But on the other hand it is very much a soft magic system in that these rules and limitations weren’t necessarily placed by any higher power. To me, magic is this chaotic force that undoes reality and reshapes it. It has no boundaries, no limitations. But it’s because of this limitless nature that magic is hard to control. So many mortals, immortals and gods included, formed their own rules and limitations to not restrict magic but rather HELP them MANIPULATE magic due to its inherent chaotic nature.
Even if gods have manipulated and altered magic and made various unique types of magic, it’s still all magic. Gods may use magic and reshape it, but they never made it. Not even so called “Gods of Magic”. Magic has always existed separately, on its own.
Magic as a separate thing next to gods certainly opens up a lot of storytelling potential too :)
Simply the best framework for actually building a magic system. So cool.
Thank you so much for the kind words - glad that the video could provide some value to you :)
yeah, practical! I dig it. Have you built any magic systems? I'm working on my first one now; this helped me a lot!
@@anthonywritesfantasyI've been worldbuilding for more than two decades, so I did dabble in magic before, yes :)
Going to showcase a bit of my own main world now in the shortly upcoming worldbuilding series. Magic will be one of the videos throughout the series.
Is the voice AI?
I am experimenting with cloned voices and stuff as well to optimize the production flow in hopes to be able to add more value more frequently, yes :)
Blessed be the algorithm. For it has brought a bountiful harvest this year.
I'm glad you got some value out of the video. Thank you for leaving the reply :)
The system I'm working on is fairly soft, but there but it has limited power without complicated rituals, so the reader will know that the wizard can't just pull a fireball out of their hat, but they could get around a simple obstacle. When the heroes discover the villain going to an ancient sacred sight on a particularly auspicious time, the reader knows something big is up.
How exactly does the "limitation" present itself? :)
I just finished the revised version on an RPG system I have been playtesting for years. In my RPG, I have a magic system that is Hard, but can be made harder of softer with abilities. It works like a science with hierarchical progression, but has economics to its use. One of the control values is that most characters have to choose not just between the elements of magic that define what they can do and how well, but their pool. A character could find themselves able to summon a tornado, but only once every other day. Or, they can start a bonfire every minute all day long. More so, the access to and size of this pool can be affected by celestial events or nature. For most people, the changes feel small, so they do not care. For some people, this can be massive, so those factors matter. There is a way for magic-users to pool their abilities, turning a lot of weak users into one much more powerful ritual. Additionally, the same system allows you to craft magic items ranging from a simple healing potion to an enchanted sword that would make Cloud of Final Fantasy envious. Furthermore, the rules for spell creation/modification are in the book. As such, if you want a Fireball with more range, it is right there. Even small changes like a purple fireball or a fireball that screams as it is hurled are right there. The enchanted and science sections can easily be interweaved to allow Spellpunk. There are various ways to modify your spell casting too. You can make a spell that gives you greater range, but you use up your daily resource faster. Or, you can use your limited training resources to make all your spells have a further reach. Why go through the training if the vast majority of your spells are done short-range? Why constantly deplete your daily pool when a little training can make all of your ranged spells much cheaper for the same distance? Or make it faster you to cast difficult spells? or make your enchantments last longer?
Also, you can choose flaws too. You can become better at divining by constantly having issues with summoning things. Or you need things to cast. Or not waving your hands around and chanting does actually weaken your spells.
Furthermore, you can circumvent limited access to magic with a supernatural allegiance to a being that loans you some of their magical capabilities, whether these are cosmic, divine, or infernal.
GMs can put into place simple world rules that convey to players what is acceptable in the setting. After that, players are playing with a hard system that can feel and appear as soft as they want.
So far, I have tested its ability to recreate: D&D, Mage the Ascension, Avatar the Last Airbender (actually a mutant group), Mistborn (another mutant group), Tolkien, SwordArt Online, Final Fantasy, SpellPunk (needed to affect items/create effects from the Classical to the Galactic).
All while keeping the system balanced so people do not feel forced into pigeonholes.
I did not include the Psionic because Magic still has a "Sensitive" element, but I also have a different tree for Psionics. Psionics have a more generalist approach and a more "me" centered focus. Their affects tend to be weaker, but they can do more.
This system can be combined with the rules for combat, mutations, and/or skills to create everything from a typical wizard to Jedi to King Arthur to Dynasty Warriors. All with a hard system that takes less then five minutes to explain, but with enormous customizability in the areas you outlined.
Certainly sounds like you've put a lot of thought into this. Difficult to assess of course without more insights or actually playing it but the variety of magic systems you've mentioned clearly suggest a lot of research was done here, so that's of course a great foundation already :)
Modifying spells does open up a range of opportunities as well, especially in the context of a video game where its much easier to present to the audience without losing them along the way.
Important thing for magic systems to feel impactful are stakes. Not just stakes like the risks of the spell, but things you actually need to sacrifice or trade for spells to work. It's why I dislike Harry Potter's magic system, there's really no clear limit on what you can or can't do if you are talented, but nobody really researches their spells or tries to experiment with different applications. It's why the concept of mana is so common in magic systems. It's not that mana is the end all be all, but it's a good way to establish ground rules for trading a substance for a spell. I also like how Philip Pullman's Dark Materials treats a similar subject with the Subtle Knife, where every time the knife is used it causes an anomaly, just like how the Flash creates anomalies with his use of the speed force and through traveling between timelines. Using magic to tamper with the laws of nature could very well follow this rule to be interesting and create an immediate problem in your story just based off the magic system slowly wreaking havoc on the earth.
I'm personally a huge fan of actual costs in magic as well, yes. But I generally like stories and worlds that are a bit more harsh and require tought decisions and a struggle for survival :)
Whenever powerful wizards use magic it creates wounds on existence. Too much magic within a space/time frame scars existence. These "scars" create areas where chaos just screws around with everything, making the area uninhabitable. Or worse, Order is a cage for older, less structured "Things". Things that resent existence for denying Them.
👍🏽👍🏽well explained.
Great video!!
Don't know how this got in mi recommendations, but really cool vid! Hope it gets to more people
Thank you for the kind words. I'm still in the process of getting this channel off the ground and will do my best to keep improving :)
Ok... but why is your avatar a talking snow monster with his fly down?
Unfavorable diet, I guess - pants are too small now :)
Joking aside, I'm trying to build a brand new channel here myself and am just getting started. Trying to improve as much as possible with every video without pushing the actual creation of videos to infinity because I'm trying to get everything perfect in the very first few videos (perfect obviously being a status no one of us will every reach).
I hope the avatar wasn't too distracting for you in this case - I actually liked him and felt he fit the video :)
in the book I'm writing there are 7 elements, Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Lightning, Dark, and Light. Light magic is actually mostly used for illusions, whereas Dark magic is actually for spells that do not fall under any of the other elements, like say an alarm for you to wake up at a certain time, but without any noise, would be useful for guards to know.
I have something similar 😂 the same elements bou most likely very different from that
Elemental magic system with a unique spin can be incredibly interesting to play around with (and read about). Crossing my fingers you'll be able to put something captivating togethere there :)
@TimeTinkerer I think it is quite unique:)
I would add a foil to lightning since it seems like it is the odd one out
@@jacob_insalaco It isn't, the way it goes for how they interact with each other in terms of which is stronger/weaker goes like this;
Fire is weak to Water,
Water is weak to Earth,
Earth is weak to Lightning,
Lightning is weak to Wind,
Wind is weak to Fire,
and Light and Dark counteract each other.
The way I am presenting magic in my own stories and ttrpg is that it is something like a college degree in the 1700s. It's attainable, yes, but mostly only if you or your family has money and connections. It's not unheard of in my world, but when you see it, you know that the mage using it is either a Clergyman, or someone of importance.
So there is no innate spark/gene/something necessary? With enough money and time, everyone can wield magic? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Technically, speaking, in my magic system, the world itself is steeped in magic and everything is connected, however, trying to wield this power without knowing the defined rules of how to use it is extremely dangerous. There are those who are born with innate abilities that are more deeply connected to the magic of the world than others, but without proper education and training, in the best cases, they never learn to wield magic beyond a basic level. In the worst cases, they end up killing themselves trying to use magic.
All in all, magic in my world is very closely tied to status, wealth, and education.
Magic is more attainable with money and education than anything else, so it is very rare.
My novel has 3 sets of power. Divinity(prayers), Magic (spells), and Tort(Hexes). Each have subcategories. ie Vampire magic effects blood , Fairy magic effects aura, they also effect the physical body but these other effets are unique to them. Dragon magic can strengthen can do rare and powerful things like Dragon ice freezing magic itself. Divinity and Tort helped shape light and dark magic. Divinity is good at its core Tort evil and Magic neutral. Magic is used for most things and having little magic extends your life by a century or two. Having colossal magic can extend your life by several millennia. Light magic can keep you younger longer while dark magic rots away your soul and eventually makes you a slave to Tort. Divinity depends on whether you are a warrior or healer though the other can access the opposite ability just not as powerful. Haven't done much with tort yet. Though for a simple distinction magic fire burns body, tort fire burns soul, divine fire burns both. I'm hoping i can make it all work in a world of endless wonder.
What's the basis for magic prolonging your life in your world? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer magic has side effects based on the kind you use. If you have a simple magic, your body is altered by it to be better at using it. Say you have water magic but aren't one of the Aquarions (sea people) your body over time alters to the point the pressure of the ocean effects you less. Nowhere near the extent of an Aquarion but less than a normal person. Magic exist in items and in the atmosphere. So the body and life act like muscles with magic. Magic strengthens them over time and increases its length. For humans while they can live several millennia they would look 70-80 at 8,000 years old while a werewolf would look 40-50 due to the different genetic makeup.
Bold of you to assume there was any well-planned system in JK Rowling's work. Honestly though, thank you for this presentation. Each system is unique, but they could easily coexist. They often do coexist in D&D and similar fantasy RPGs.
Thank you for your feedback, first of all, I'm glad you found any value in the video :)
When it comes to Harry Potter, you're not the only one who misinterprated my mentioning of it as me implying that Harry Potter has a good magic system.
This is actually not what I think. The goal at the start of the video was simply to use two somewhat known magics in order to highlight that they all have some form for rules, limits or at least a lose framework.
@@TheTaleTinkerer Makes sense. It really is a great video. Thanks for your work on it. I keep rewatching it and making notes for my own worldbuilding.
This video really gives perspective Thank you!
I finally after years of thinking about it have delved into creating a world of my own and I'm very new to it all but magic will be a thing. I have had discussions with lots of people about it. Problem is I think A LOT. So I tend to overthink stuff and have even more ideas all the time. Currently working on the idea of having some form of elemental magic that affects the people within the world in some way. Example of this would be the elves I'm thinking of using. Instead of the classic ancient super powerful glory sexy elves, i'm thinking of making them have a very strong connection to more darker stuff. Like necromancy or blood magic or even have them worship a deity of death and so on. Which will make their element tied to that force. And they are at the core everything an elf is not cause that's more interesting. Still just an idea will see how it pans out. Always happy for tips and help since well I'm like lvl 0 on this stuff XD
Glad that the video did give you some value and kudos for even getting started on the journey of worldbuilding :) Putting a spin on known tropes (like elves) is always one way to go, but it really requires a lot of effort to not make it feel too flat and shallow. I'd definitely consider thinking about the creation of a race yourself just to get a feel for the different things required to make a fantasy race feel "real" rather than just humans looking different or straight up Tolkien copies.
Hmm that's a good thought. I tend to think in humanoid terms but maybe I could make the Rabbito species i designed long ago. Thanks for the insight. 😁
I have many stories that have magic intergraded into the realm. The one I'm currently working on will have magic in it, yes. However, this world's magic is subtle and housed/accessed by dragons alone. A human in this world can't access the magic themselves, since they are not a creature of magic. The only way for a human to access this magic is to be paired with a dragon. However, even that's not enough. The dragon has to be willing to share a piece of their magic with their paired human in order for that person to tap into the power. And it would come at a price if used incorrectly. The Forbidden Arts(Dark magic, Blood magic, etc), however, plays by different rules. Yes, some of the dragons in my world would possess this innate ability to use these magics, but a human could technically tap into Blood or Dark magic by sacrificial means. What the sacrifice is would be solely dependent on the human. So say a human is paired with a dragon whose innate magic is that of Fire. That human could gain access to Blood magic by sacrificing something of themselves at designated temples to these Forbidden Arts. IT would wind up corrupting the dragon's innate magic, twisting it from its original state into one of Dark magic, which would impact how that magic looks. Fire would become dark with black and blue flames, Ice would more than likely become more sinister and cold, etc.
Sounds like a form of Dragon Rider story/world - any particular inspirations that have been part of shaping your world? :)
There's been a bit of inspiration, many being, yes, dragon rider books, but also the story of Dinotopia. My story is centered around this inaccessible island shrouded in mystery and guarded by driving storms and dangerous sea dragons as well as heavy, thick fog. This island is inhabited by dragons, all manner of dragons from the lowly Wyrms, to the Eastern and Western dragons and it's not limited to those, either. The Kirin makes an appearance here as well. Humans coexist with these creatures, though the humans haven't lived on the island for very long(maybe a few centuries or so). I will admit, I wasn't planning on having magic in this world, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized dragons themselves are creatures of magic, so therefore, magic would have to be integrated somehow.@@TheTaleTinkerer
@@vulpixtrainer12 Sounds intruiging. Never heard of Dinotopia, definitely putting that on my list to check out when I find time :)
thank you for this video! i'm working on my own magic based setting, and your tips actually really helped me sort out the problems i had. keep up the good work!!
Thank you for the kind feedback. Glad to hear there was some value for you to find in the video :)
for me, when I write about Alchemy, I tend to go towards the aspect that it is in the same vein as enchantment types of magic, being created with certain materials that help aid in catching hold onto enchantments, but needing spells imbued to actually have any real effects.
I guess "catching hold onto enchantments" is something that can fail then as well? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer yeah, if you have beef, it makes it hard to make chicken soup. not all enchantments in my setting require objects, but in my setting I refer to anything mana based as Imbuements, as opposed to enchantments, this is to help myself differentiate what is mana based, and what requires certain items. Some items can be made with imbuement as well, such as healing water, which can be made by imbuing some water with a water based healing spell, although others can work so long as they are compatible, such as light, which sits out of the classic elemental spectrum. That healing water is an ingredient in something like a healing potion, which is made by infusing the healing water as well as a few other herbs that are mixed into the water making something like a thin broth with a second healing spell, that would be an enchantment as it requires a specific item, as well as a physical anchor in order to work properly. Of course there are other nuances as well, such as how different materials hold different magics, how well they hold etc., like metal being able to hold earth enchantments much better and for a long time, but not able to hold something like a water enchantment for as long.
WMW - the best magic configuration for me.)))
Not sure I can decipher the abbreviation WMW right away here, could you elaborate? :)
The quality of your videos are good. Well spoken and paced nicely. Definitely helped me in my world building. Hope you keep at it. I think you'll have a successful channel if you do.
Thank you for the kind words, this is really appreciated. I'm just getting started, so I'll definitely stay at it and hopefully improve a bit with every video to come :)
I am creating a world in which magic started out extremely soft, but due to cataclysmic events caused by it had to be legally restrained in codified rules and rituals to the point of places of learning no longer teaching Magic but Spellcraft. Even further down the timeline, it softens up a bit again to become more an art than a science, in which the rules can be bent by transcendental mastery and creative reinterpretation.
Does the magic itself actually change as well or is it just the way that people interact with it that changes? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Both. Primordial magic is the energy from which all of reality is formed and it has the power to undo reality. It is the raw force of creation and enthropy. But imposing rules onto something that by its very definition has no rules or definitions transmutates it into something different.
I've actually used something in a D&D campaign where the gods got so butthurt that wizards made them irrelevant that they basically applied a divine patch to reality that stripped wizards of the school of healing and purification, something vital to keeping followers.
@@bishopofeternity48 How did the wizards react? I'd imagine if they were that powerful before, they aren't willing to just let that one slide and accept it :)
there is this power system i am trying to build for my novel. Basically each NORMAL person in that world has a unique ability that can be powered with magia but the problem is you can't use those abilities as a low ranking mages, you can only use it when you reach a certain degree of power.
There are 2 ways to solve this, one is for people to enter the defacto path of learning how to weave magia, by weaving magia one can weave magia matrices that mimic weaker versions of abilities, so for example one can weave a magia matrix to conjure a small flame, but the flame they summon will never be as powerful as someone who actually has a special ability to flames, by doing this the mages will learn to understand magia untill they can actually use their unique abilities
The common abilities that used when weaving magia matrices are elemental abilities like weaving a flame or lightning, the more complex the matrix, the higher the complexity of the ability. Like Governments have monopolise the use spatial matrices and time matrices
The second part is the way of the fighter, where one fights or does any activity that uses magia continously and repeatedly untill they can use magia purely on instincts, only then can one unlock their unique ability. Example there are wandering swordsmen who only aim to sharpen their use of the sword untill they can use magia instinctively
Any thoughts on it?
How about this magic system. Magic comes from past lives, what you did in them, and how many past lives you had. If they had a magic system or power systems in the past, lifetime, and how close to your present life, the more portent the past life is.
I don't think I've ever heard about a magic system that ties the source of its power (or at least the potential power level of magic users) to lifes they've lived before being reincarnated.
From the top of my head, I wouldn't be able to say how I would approach this personally, but it certainly sounds like an intruiging concept to explore more deeply :)
How about this magic system. Magic comes from past lives, what you did in them, and how many past lives you had. If they had a magic system or power systems in the past, lifetime, and how close to your present life, the more portent the past life is.The lowest will be the new souls since they don't have any past lives. The strongest will be the ancient souls since they have a lot more past lives. Ooh, if you draw apron the past life, it will be clearer to remember that life, but if that was a bad life, you gain everything in the past life, even the bad memories that you had locked away. If in that life if you had PSED you have it this life. Everyone has a limit of having many bad lives you can hold without going insane. Good lives or training in the soul can increase the limit you have. One of the most powerful magic/power systems. Another world will change if this magic system is infected with that world, yeah, infected because it comes along with the soul as a system if you died in that magic/power system, and if you had fully infected the world you are on, the magic will make it as it had always been there and you become the king of that world.
@TimeTinkerer This is a law-govern magic/power system that uses a power/magic system from past lives. Since it is living in the soul of those who had used it, can it infect other worlds,power systems, and magic systems.
my current framework is purely elemental magic at the moment, though I have hinted at this like summoning magic, and the MC has also looked into spatial magic. I set up a prerequisite in terms of strength that they'll need to be as it's harder to breach dimensions and move space. Summoning magic in the world I'm writing in is built upon an understanding of spatial magic as well, which I believe is a good decision, as it gives more incentive to learn spatial magic aside from what the reader might consider to be obvious reasons to do so(storage magic, teleporting, etc.)
How do you link spatial and summoning magic?
@TimeTinkerer well, usually summoning magic requires you to pull a creature from the same or from another world. That, to me at least, sounds a lot like reverse teleportation or breaking through dimensional walls. Those are things that I associate with spatial magic.
Of course, I use books for my characters to find, like a book about summoning, which also teaches the specific spatial magic required for that flavor of summoning magic.
@@TacoCannon That actually sounds quite intriguing. Rather than "creating" something when summoning it, it's more about "moving" something already existing from A to B (even across dimensions). I like it :)
Maybe have a stoft magic system that slowly evolves and develops into a hard magic system.
This is actually something that can happen during the design process itself. I've had it before where I started to create something less rigid but ended up with rules that did make it a hard magic system after all :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Oh cool.
Sorry it took me 3 weeks to see this.
For such a new channel the quality of this video is quite impressive. I imagine some amazing videos will be coming from this channel before long. Robot Voice is always a bit jarring for me, personally. But this wasn't the worst I've heard.
Ultimately, it's always a tad disappointing that the vast majority of videos on magic systems end up as, "Here are Sanderson's Laws, do that." I like to explore new techniques and methodologies.
Really appreciate the comment, thank you. I am experimenting with voice cloning, yes, mostly to find ways to optimize the production process. As a one-man show (script, thumbnail, find the right b-roll, edit, etc.) you cannot save enough time anywhere. But quality is very important to me, and I will do my best to keep improving and might give it a try as well to see how people find a recorded audio instead (I do have a decent setup and the room soundproofed) if I can fit it in well into the production.
In terms of Sanderson's laws, I actually do not focus on these very much myself to be completely honest. But I did feel they warrant mentioning in such a video :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer I didn't even realize that it wasn't a real voice to be honest, now mentioned I hear it, but the quality is more than okay :)
@@funmaker77 Thank you. I was happy with this for a quick start as well. Only the first two videos are this way though, everything else since then is using - what I hope - you'll deem good audio/video quality as well :)
Good work. A bit lackluster at two points, but way better than anything we got from official sites ^^
It would be nice to switch the background music as a new sub topic gets introduced in the video. Maybe have a brief pause start each subsection/subtopic too.
Nice video overall though
Thank you for taking the time to leave that feedback, much appreciated. And I'm obviously glad to hear that the video overall still provided some value to you :)
For mine. In short "its whatever you want it to be"
After you learn the basics, you can either do it the old way and learn justus or you can do it the modern way and your power can be whatever you wish. The old way is significantly harder because humans have been nerfed since back then they were pretty damn strong. "Where's the drawbacks?" If you're gifted or not, you still have to manage crucial resources to conjure your innate techniques. If you fuck around and find out, the consequences can be lasting.
What type of consequences are we talking about? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer
Universal consequences and consequences based upon users abilities. Universal consequence being:
being not able to use your innate technique (or it will be inflicted upon you. Theres only 1 instance of this tho)
Having the mind, soul and body gate be closed and effectively having to learn the powersystem again
Brain damage from opening 1 to many Shrine Techniques (can be healed via rule zero. But only 10 out of 73 characters I've named can do this and only 3 out of the 10 can heal others)
There's also my favorite part which is consequence based upon the user but most of them are very complex besides like 3 because I haven't decided to give them complex techniques like Yugos technique which is completely based on music and has strict rules he has to follow or else winning becomes impossible because he only has 3 innate techniques he can use. But this consequence is applied if he loses in his shrine which does happens but only once, Because the character that won Learned music theory and prepared for 7 years incase she ever faces yugo
Very good video, thank you so much! I've been working on my book and this is a good source to clarify everything in general, new sub!
Thank you for the support, this is really appreciated. I hope you'll like future videos as well and that they too can provide some value to you :)
Nice
Thank you for the support. Will do my best to keep improving and to provide value :)
I can tell that you have done a fair amount of research and are doing well to provide that information in short and understandable points. Overall, I would give this video a solid 70/100.
Personally, I would have preferred a longer piece. I feel as though trying to cram as much as one can into a short and informative 13min essay has the drawback of having to use every second for that delivery, but without pauses or inflection to refrain having a monotone voice. This is great for making a video that is accessible for the majority but left little room for elaboration or embellishments to bring energy into the narrative. Going a little more in depth into how you perceive each topic, from your own perspective, could have been fantastic and may have been a spin I have yet to hear from the broader market. I hope to find a secondary essay release in the future, should you find the time or inclination to produce another on the same topic.
At current, I would say that this video makes for a great introduction to a fascinating discussion, but these are points that have been shared before and would benefit from either being given more time to give greater detail or being split into separate videos, each with their own theme within the common narrative.
Looking forward to watching your potential growth and seeing how you evolve and find your own voice
Thank you for taking the time to leave that feedback, much appreciated. And yes, this video was always meant as a high-level introduction that I do plan to go more in-depth into. TH-cam videos aren't always the best medium for in-depth educational videos though, there is a certain balance you need to strike between accessibility for a larger audience and the depth you'd like to include. Also, this was the second video on the channel which I only started 2,5 months ago before I even had cam/mic set up, so lots of things to improve for sure :)
I did start start to touch upon magic from other angles with the "8 Ancient Magics: Secret Sauce for Worldbuilding" video a while back and I'm looking into ideas to cover the design of magic systems overall in more depth but that will still take a bit of time (other magic focused videos are planned already though) :)
Love the video, man. Appreciate your work putting this together
Glad to hear that you were able to get some value from the video. Thank you for taking the time to leave that positive feedback, much appreciated :)
Cant you have a Soft Hard hybrid system? For my Fifthworld game. There are defined ranges, areas, intensities, durations, etc, however the caster has a primary and secondary domain, and whatever they want to do within those domains, is up to them (as limited by their imaginations, and their basic own limitations. There are no preset spells. A spellbinder thinks a thing, gathers the ephemera(magic energies) and it is focused into his/her desire/will into a 'spell'
I had an idea for a magic system but it's pretty loose. Being that the setting I have is jungle-based (think Pandora from Avatar meets Eternia from He-Man), I have the magic system revolve around tatoos and crystals. The user manifests these tattoos after preparing their body which is learning to absorb life force and have it purify the user's body by going through their souls and pushed throughout their chakra pathways. Afterwards, they meditate on the nature of their energy which manifests as a mark which is branded on their soul and flesh. Whenever the user focuses energy at that tattoo, the design shapes the energy into the desired effect, such as a fireball, or super speed.
However, those abilities often carry their own unique limitations. For example, a character who can boost their eyesight to see into the dark or distance, the rest of their senses are dulled, leaving them vulnerable. The users can also craft non soul-tatoos onto them to grant them other effects. These can be basic wards or enchantments to protect against dark magic, and they can be based off an ancient language I created. But they take much more refined energy control to shape as it isn't as inate as funneling it to your Soul Mark you manifested within your soul.
As for the crystals, the crystals I have them divided into two camps. Crystals that when you inbne energy they produce an effect, like creating a torch, pulling energy towards you etc. But there are specialized gemstone crystals, Ruby, Sapphire etc. that can resonate with an individual based on their nature of their Soul Marks. So for example, if you have someone who can generate fireballs, then a ruby crystal can amplify that effect when you channel it into it.
These can come with their own drawbacks, like the amplification draws on more energy which can leave you vulnerable.
That does sound quite interesting actually. I like the creative approach to the forms of magic (tattoos + crystals) and as a huge He-Man fan, I obviously approve the setting choice :)
Normally when a youtuber puts themselves on-sceen in animated form I get wary...but at least this time it's not a headless suit with a random item placed on top...plus you're actually animating the whole thing!
Glad you gave it a fair chance, thank you :) I want to emphasize as well, that only the first two videos were using generated voice and an animated character. Everything else since then was created after being satisfied with lighting, mic and camera setup :)
The magic system i made up for my world is kinda... All of them. There is a type of resources that has been fought for in the past and now is sold in the world from the only city able to extract it. At the same time a species is naturally tuned with magic, there are potions, amulets and cards
I'm personally a big fan of resource based magic, at least to some degree. If you have any great examples to share, let me know :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer tbh, i do not know other worlds with that, sorry, i wish i knew some so i could understand how to make it better
a lot of my answers to these questions are in the middle for my comic.
TLDR: transitions between the different answers to these questions seem like fun
in my story, the magic system was secret before and it becomes public in the story, and my story explores the changes in the society
and everyone has a different view on the appearances and confirmations of superpowered beings existing... a juxtaposition on humans being the top of the food chain
being inspired by superhero societies like in MHA and One Punch Man, my initial plan was to build up to a superhero society rather than just be thrown in the society already being there... like what made a hero a hero before the hero organisation in One Punch Man or the Hero schools in MHA
but my story is taking a different turn, humans not accepting these superhumans.
(this came from the reactionary nature of heroes, they only act after a villian has decided to embark on his destroy the world ventures) humans only face the problems that the heroes solve due to the existence of these superhumans in the first place
so yea, its leading to a war provoked by genocide
the magic system itself in summary is One Piece Zoan Devil Fruits(I call them morphers) and Avatar bending system(I call them formers) but with my own mental gymnastics
it comes from divine DNA being imbued in all humans due to certain back story events
drawbacks for the Zoan knock offs is that they lose their personalities in favour of the beasts they become
drawbacks for the formers is that the elements they control start to affect their body
there are ways to counteract the drawbacks or increase "tolerance" of the drawbacks
oh yea, I mentioned the DNA being in all of humanity, but it's only active in a random few from birth
Sounds quite intriguing in terms of foundational setup. Divine DNA means that actual deities are responsible for these magical powers (whether dorment or active) being embedded in Humans?
@@TheTaleTinkerer yea, there's a whole race of them that left after certain events led to humans also having the divinity. They left to avoid war(out of mercy) but 2 remained behind. 1 didn't like mercy and the other wanted to stop him
Hello, the magic of, for example, Dungeons & Dragons would be a "rulebook" magic system with very defined and immutable effects and requirements... and can be innate or learned (depending on the character's Class). But what about the magic system that The Elder Scrolls had, for example in Daggerfall there was a mathematical equation with which you could create your own spells just as you thought of designing them; That would be a system with well-defined rules, effects and requirements but it is much more mutable than D&D since you can completely change the effects of the spell, for example exchanging power/damage for duration of the effect or range of the explosion/effect or maximum distance.
Yes, the second one would allow for more flexibility based on your description. Both still fall into hard magic systems that I'd call "law-governed" though since the flexibility of the second one still follows pre-defined and clearly laid out rules :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer
Yeah, that mathematical equation to make/design the spells was a great mechanic; It's a shame, very sad, that it was one of the things that was abandoned due to simplification, already in TES Oblivion they limited the ability to design your spells to a very certain place where to get there you had to do a lot of things (collect letters of recommendation to enter the University), and in TES Skyrim they removed ALL of that, leaving magic as just throwing pre-programed little powers.
Nice channel you have here, bro. I'm in the middle of worldbuilding and rewriting my magic systems, so thi video came on time. Subscribed.
Thank you very much for the support, I'm glad to hear that you were able to find some value in my content :)
Any chance you have or could make a worksheet that covers the categories and sub sections discussed in this lecture, which one trying to develop their magic system could fill out or use as a guide to creating a sort of “magic system bible” with? Would definitely be helpful!
I did consider it but was unsure if - as a new channel - the video would even get any traction and as such see anyone actually being interested in such a thing. A single request is more than enough for me though. Will definitely deliver that in the next few days as soon as possible via a community post and also let you know in a reply here :)
I've put together the following document now and hope that it can help you somehow: docs.google.com/document/d/1kBkwbP-9XeBunCs6gyB26kTrJWyc2jT2qf1yTKNuU7Y :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Awesome! Looking forward to it, thanks! I bet there are others who will find this extremely helpful.
@@TheTaleTinkerer Many thanks, my dear friend. I imagine this will be very helpful.
@@TheTaleTinkerer Wish I'd seen this before I typed the whole thing out myself! Haha Thanks for this! fantastic vid and worksheet
You defined 5 systems... but the way I'm working, it seems my systems will be differentiated according a how much of each of your characteristics they have.
One thing to remember here is that nothing should be seen as rigid. Even when it comes to my quite specific step by step processes such as recently presented in the "7 Key Elements of Epic Creature Design in Worldbuilding" video, the way I worldbuild always sees such methods as guidance not rules. The same is true for the framework of magic. Even the high-level categories like "law-governed" etc, can be combined in some way and still make sense.
I personally find it most important to have frameworks that emphasize the important things to remember and put words to what needs to be described, but then allow for creativity to put that to use - if that makes sense in any way here :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Well, when you study grimoires and paranormal events you learn one thing... Magic is the tool of Chaos, and those rules exist because someone, something, wanted in that way... so there's always something odd... Just like the magic system I'm creating for my TTRPG.
I’ve been working on the magic system for the book series I’ve been writing and I was wondering if I get some feedback. It involves Druids Who have the ability to turn into a human animal hybrid. The user gets the enhanced senses, skills and unique powers of that animal. But they usually can turn into one animal. Furthermore, without proper training, the user can lose control over their animal form physically and mentally. Druids in society follow a similar role as they did in ancient Celtic society but in the modern day, where they advise governments on environmental issues and help communities be in tune with their environment. Despite that, Druids are often misunderstood in society and depending on the individuals animal and their control of it, some face more difficulties than others. Feel free to critique.
I actually like it, to be honest. While the "animal powers without full transformation" is something I find quite appealing personally, the translation into modern day society in terms of druids as advisors, sounds like an incredibly rich opportunity for great stories. How do you explain any kind of magic in your modern day world?
@@TheTaleTinkerer Thank you for your feedback. In answer to your question, I explain magic in my modern day the same way people study branches of science. I’ve debated having certain branches of magic be unique to certain people. Example: animal powers are exclusive to Druids. At least that’s what I have so far.
@@TheRoomforImprovement Understood. And where exactly does the Magic come from? Like, if compared to our modern day world, what is different that magic even exists? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer In answer to your question, so far I have it to where magic is a force of nature/ natural resource. One that’s usually laid dormant throughout human history except for rare instances. It’s been studied, misunderstood, misused and feared throughout history.
I've been working on my own magic system for a long time and never realized i kinda did a weird blend of soft and hard systems, like you can just throw a small ball of fire yes but it'd be way more powerful for the mage if they place restrictions and costs on it, the more the better. Just imagine seeing a mage pull out a tooth with their bare hands before disintegrating someone with a fireball.
I think this could still be explained within a hard magic system as a whole. Its basically a matter of rules based around the increase of spell potency and if these follow strict guidelines, then I'd deem it a hard magic system still. But very often, all of this is just semantics anyway. I'm just trying to provide my own perspective about things in hopes that it can inspire other's to write better stories / craft better worlds (or even start at all) :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer fair enough it's good insight
Nen, basically.
@@bishopofeternity48 ngl I recently binged Hunter x Hunter and just remember going "oh that's uncanny" when they explained nen lol
This is a cool video! Im trying to build a world with magic myself, and this helped lay a better foundation.
Btw, I like your avatar. I saw from other comments here and see that you're trying things out. I like his design, but I think the eyes are a little hard to look at yknow? They give a harsher look than friendly imo. Why not use a simplified version of the guy on your profile picture?
Thank you, glad you got something useful out of it and I very much appreciate your feedback in regards to the avatar. If you check my latest videos though, I've managed to finalize my camera, microphone and production setup by now and did move away from an avatar all-together. Hope you can still find value in the many videos to come :)
@@TheTaleTinkererthe avatar is fine, i think it's his bias talking
well ya, bias talks in most cases
Genuinely loved the video but because of how dense the info is and face paced you’re speaking, it would be very helpful if you listed things out and took more pauses more often for note taking purposes.
It took me like a half hour to write this all down on my tablet bc I kept having to rewind instead of being able to pause because of the pacing :(
Thanks for all of the info! Liked and subbed
Thank you for taking the time to leave that feedback. This was a rather condensed version, yes. The description of the video includes a link to a brief overview document though (This here: docs.google.com/document/d/1kBkwbP-9XeBunCs6gyB26kTrJWyc2jT2qf1yTKNuU7Y/ )
I'm planning to work on something more expansive (based on the foundation of this video) but that is still a bit out :)
im currently working on a world whos magic system is an expansion of partical physics and quantum mechanics.
That sounds highly rules based and seems to require a lot of scientific knowledge. I'd be lost on that particular front but if you can pull it off, this could certainly lead to quite complex depth in the system :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer honestly, while it is going to function very scientifically, the actual usage of magic wont require understanding of how it functions... like electricity or a car engine irl, a person can be trained to use it without understanding how it works. but with greater understanding will come a lessening of the rules, allowing more scientific casters to create new spells.
I think your approach is quite interesting, and I’d love to see you go into more detail about each stage as you see them.
Glad to hear that you liked the overall structure. I do plan to go into a magic a bit deeper soon after completing a few last videos of my mini-.foundational worldbuilding series :)
I just noticed his character is breathing in and out while talking in the same breath...
Magic :)
I like the framework of the magic. But you should also mention that those rules can be combined.
In my work, I combine the laws of magic and magic being a force of nature. It's like the physical things in our world. You can't make an apple fly up the damn tree into the sky. That's why not every problem can be fixed with magix, because the rules of nature which magic is part of, can't just be rewritten.
I'm usually quite specific with things being creative frameworks that allow for combinations and such. If that wasn't done here, then I appreciate the note. Will make sure this is clarified better in the future because you are absolutely right here of course :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer It's just an idea, nothing you have to follow 100%. However, found that clearly defining rules, a natural order so to speak, for your magic and in my newest novel for what sience can and can't do, is crutial to a good and relatable story. It prevents the question by the reader: "Why did he/she not do this/that in the beginning? Why did he not use his super powerfull spell right of the bat?"
This way, you can state that it could not be used because X or because it would have caused Y. That's why in my work, there are no reviving magic. Once you are dead, you are gone forever. No amount of magic can bring you back.
This was a good bullet-point overview of magic systems, but I feel it could really benefit from examples of each specific bullet point to crystalize and drive each specific point home.
Thank you for the feedback, and I do agree, that it is only an overview of course. I do want to go deeper into several aspects of magic in future videos (one I already did was about 8 ancient magics as inspiration).
About forbidden magic, i find it interesting that often in certain systems Necromancy is strictly forbidden and only the most evil of evil use it, where as sometimes enchantment and charm magics are not.
Like sucking someones life force is just as dangerous as dropping a fire tornado is just as, if more collateral damage.
Our image of death has changed a lot throughout human history. Our body is a temple, sacred in death. But humans aren’t the only ones dying.
In our prehistoric past we used the bones of hunted animals as tools. Why does a magic world not do the same? Having a skeleton horse draw a cart is much more efficient. No tiredness and no need for food or sustenance. Why is this not explored more in books?
Great thoughts if you ask me. I obviously don't have a definitive answer but personally I do think that especially western culture and its relationship with death is responsible for it. At least my own experiences (in my closest surroundings but also through fiction/non-fiction) rarely gave me the impression that death is something natural.
@@TheTaleTinkerer exactly, someone who helped a lot with that was Caithlyn Doughty (ask a mortician) she is a TH-camr who talks about death in a way that i understand.
For a while now i wanted to start writing a book but English isn’t my first language and im dyslexic and i dont really fancy reading a lot. But i believe i have some interesting ideas and conflicts that can go alongside with it.
@@joranvanolphen9892 Not everything needs to become a bestseller. Even just writing for yourself to get your ideas on paper can be rewarding :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer ngl, that is really comforting to heart. Thanks. Maybe ill start to make my random world building notes into something a bit more coherent soon so i can make a start somewhere in the near future
Hey, I write a story that has many sci-fi and fantasy elements in it. Can you read it and tell me what can be improved?
I really appreciate your request and feel honored that you'd even be interested in my feedback. Unfortunately, right now - unless it is a short story - I barely manage to work on my own things, let alone review the work of others.
@@TheTaleTinkerer
I understand.
In my fantasy world, the setting is magic is an innate talent born within a few child. There are three main types of magic that i want to focus on, which is Arcane, Divine and Demon magic. As the times goes and world evolve along with human and other races tweaking the main three spell, lot of derived spell born from it like blood magic, illusion, necromancy, healing etc. i also created a magic triangle where arcane beat divine, divine beat demon and demon beat arcane magic, with few spell that are enginereed and specialized to counter it weakness. My problem lies with i don't know how the mechanism of the magic work. Well, the main three types of magic are borrowed from three high being in my fantasy world which are spirits, angels and demons. They are the one who determines who get to wield their respective affinity for magic. For example, a person who got divine blessing can wield divine magic as well it derivative magic like healing and enhancing magic. The problem is do i make so people need to use magic circle, artifact, any magical tools, chant or pact to utilize the magic. That's what I couldn't figure out yet. I was thinking some limitations like a person who bless with Arcane Touch wouldn't ever be able to use divine magic or demon magic. Other than that, i also using mana system as some sort of internal energy that will transmute into magic when being used. Mana pools are unchangeable for individual but you can master the usage so you don't drain it too much. Every person has their own size mana pool. And also not all individuals who can use arcane magic, able to wield them all. Like there are some people who can only use basic arcane spells like elemental magic but more special lize spell like clone magic need practice, understanding the principle and a little bit of innate talent are involve. For the spell, learning curve for everyone are different and it may take way too long for you to master a spell that you don't have a knack for it so it's better if you master you known spell. That's my limitations in my magic system. But there also some races, that have their unique magic that belong to their own kinds and can't be learn by others unless they have the same ancestry as the said races. Finally, im still new in making fantasy story so i maybe make a lot of mistake right now. Sorry for ranting on your videos, i just want to ask for suggestions on how do i approach the mechanic in my magic system. I think i wanna combine hard and soft magic system but idk. I also need to figure out the world building for my story but hey that is a problem for future me😂😂😂.
I recently started pondering what a magic system that works in our actual real world would look like, trying to exclude esoterics. It's really subtle and I just started thinking about it so I can't say much about it.
I guess it would be like how having the ability to create human life is nothing short of high level alchemy. Yes we know how it works, but in this case science is just the study of magic.
Or charms and illusion magic are just psychology. The ability to read and write people's minds is very real and in large parts we know how it works, but that doesn't mean there isn't a magical quality about it. And I'm not strictly talking mentalism, which would be a trained version of this.
Sounds interesting. I always think about "source of magic" in these cases though. For me, that is an important part of make magic work in a setting that is more real world related. Have you put any thoughts into this? Why does Magic exist or differently where does magic come from? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer like I said it's so subtle. And because it's reality based I think the source would literally be the laws of physics and quantum mechanics
If I'm building a game world/system, I build up from scratch with as much granularity as possible.
But if I'm just writing a story, I cheat my magic systems. I use Magic: The Gathering. Each character has a unique deck I build for them, and that's their power set. I establish where they draw their power (creatures they control, lands they draw on, ancient artifacts, dark bargains, etc) and what they can fuel with that power.
As someone who has all five MTG mana symbols tatooed on his arm, you get a heart here just for the reference :) But in terms of magic, yes, the variety that MTG has in its colors can be a great foundation to determine individual directions of a magic system :)
They have 30 years of worldbuilding and system refining. No need to reinvent the wheel.@@TheTaleTinkerer
To all the fellow would be authors out there. Brandon sanderson's magic system is literally just drinking potions to do magic. it's not that deep but it is fun, so just have fun with your world. people who like your kind of fun will like it.
In Mistborn that's true, but he does have some variations in other books. In general, I personally included him because I do see his "laws" as valuable sanity checks when designing a system overall. His type of magic had little influence on the way I designed my framework though, as that was a culmination of lots of research and experiences :)
@TimeTinkerer I agree, I think a lot of authors psyche themselves out comparing their work to people praised as often as Brandon Sanderson. So, just letting them know that even Brandon Sanderson makes generic things interesting purely because of the way he has fun with his world. Boiling it down it basic steps mistborn is just potion magic, but people like it because Brandon had fun with pre-existing concepts. Being original isn't the point, being consistent and imaginative hold much more weight.
My favorite magic system comes from my favorite series. Well, a universe in which multiple series take place in. A franchise? I dunno the word for it.
Anyway, the Nasuverse: Big and full of Mystery. Yes, that is "Mystery" with a capital M. Since that's what magic runs off in the Nasuverse.
In the Nasuverse, Magecraft is used by Mages to replicate phenomena. Magecraft is NOT Magic. Magic is its own thing. Magecraft is simply discount magic that can't do half of the wacky stuff True Magic can do.
There is Magecraft that cones close to True Magic, but Magecraft can never be what Magic is.
Mages use "Magical Energy" to fuel their spells. This "ME" comes in two forms. "Mana", the ME that is in the atmosphere and outputted by the Planet. And "Od", the ME that is naturally produced by the soul.
Mana is outside a person, while Od os inside a person.
Leylines can be harvested for massive quantities of ME, which is why most Mages seek to place their workshops on top of one.
There's a whole lot I can't explain in a youtube comment, so here's just a few things: Nasuverse Magecraft is both hard and soft. It has a strict set of rules it obeys, however all rules have exceptions and in some cases the rules simply don't apply.
Magecraft is very sympathetic in nature. Things that are like are connected. In the mobile game "Fate/Grand Order", in one of its Events, someone built a tower that looked like the "Tower At The Ends Of The World" and since it looked like the Tower of the End, it received a much weaker set of abilities and properties of the Tower of the End, such as immense durability.
Another example of this sympathetic nature. In another Event, Kamadeva the Indian God of Love appears. Kamadeva (or Kama as she now has a female vessel) was incinerated by Shiva's third eye, which is meant to incinerate the universe. Kama used this to become a universe in and of herself. And she was defeated by someone who betrayed the Tokugawa turning themselves into a sword with Anti-Tokugawa properties, and since Kama had taken over the Ooku of the Tokugaea it would be able to damage her. So she abandoned being the Ooku, and so someone else took over being the Ooku from Kama, and then ejected Kama from the Ooku. And since Kama wasn't the Ooku anymore and wasn't in the Ooku, she had no protections from Trishula Shakti and was defeated with said weapon.
Magecraft can also... Do just about anything. With enough research Magecraft can do anything short of True Magic, and again... the rules exist to be broken.
As for True Magic?
There's five.
The Denial of Nothingness.
The Kaleidoscope.
The Heaven's Feel.
???
The Blue.
The Nasuverse also has magical aliens and stuff. Just look up "Fate ORT" and you'll see how horrifying the Nasuverse can be.
I'm not familiar with the Nasuverse myself, but it certainly sounds quite magical :)
I'm always careful though when magic has the potential to "Do just about anything". Mortals reaching divine power/status through magic can be interesting (I personally liked Raistlin Majere's search for power in the Dragonlance as a Teenager) but it can also easily just become too much for me, losing the wonder that magic is supposed to add.
@@TheTaleTinkerer Most people can't do almost anything with Magecraft (which is not Magic). It's more... theoretical. Theoretically you could do anything with Magecraft. Actually doing anything with Magecraft is significantly harder.
"Magecraft is the artificial reenactment of Mystery, which is ordinarily possible only by inhuman beings. Magecraft is the ability to bring about what is possible through Science with supernatural means; although the process is considered a miracle, the result is not. The limits of Magecraft have changed with time, as science evolved and Magic from the past became possible through Science."
"There exists no impossibility for modern Magecraft within the rules of the world and limits of human intellect; there are limitations, however, where it only appears that something is possible. Because Magecraft acts as the reenactment of preexisting phenomena, it is impossible to use it to create new Mysteries; even with an infinite amount of research, there exists a "wall" preventing human wisdom from doing so in the current era. The realm past this "wall" is known as Magic."
"Modern Magecraft is inferior to that from the Age of Gods in terms of magnitude because Magi from that era had acquired their Magical Energy from the Swirl of the Root (the Akashic Records) directly. The difference between Modern and Traditional Magecraft is explainable by the difference in civilizations - while the civilization of the Age of Gods existed side-by-side with the Truth, the civilization of the Age of Man exists in order to search for the Truth."
"Being originally Magic, Magecraft draws upon a predetermined power from the Root. However, because that amount of power is fixed, the more people draw from it at the same time, the more Magecraft’s capacities become mundane. In short, the greater is the collective number of Magi, the weaker their individual power."
"If it is believed that the subject of a Mystery "exists," the World permits its existence. Definite affirmation of said belief is not required. For example, even though the majority of modern humans reject the existence of ghosts, modern Science cannot outright demonstrate that they do not exist, and, thus, within the unconscious, there lurks the vague suspicion that "they might indeed exist." This sort of "suspicion" falls under the category of "faith." "Ignorance" is the force that opposes "faith." If the existence of ghosts is itself utterly unknown, faith cannot foment."
"The main aim of the Magi’s Thaumaturgical System is to make the impossible possible. If something cannot be achieved with modern Magecraft, the Magi research and develop their arts just for the sake of changing that. Powerful Magecrafts like Greater Magecraft and Greater Rituals are ultimately challenges in order to reach the goal called Magic. After a certain point of development, differences between power and even between Magic and Magecraft start to lose their importance in practical terms. Battles between two great Magi will not be decided by their power, but by who possesses the system whose rules has the fewer tiers. It is not the power behind them, but the concepts they work under."
"Magecraft is that "which governs the skills of past humans that Science cannot explain" and Science is that "which gathers the technology of future humanity that Magecraft cannot reach." The two disciplines are absolutely incompatible with each other, but they are similar in a single respect. The pursuers of each practice seek continued prosperity, protecting the future of Humanity."
"At its core, Magecraft is merely the manifestation of things that already exist or occur in reality, albeit with a slight disregard for time and materials required. Phenomena not of this universe are impossible to reproduce. In order to create something, either another object must be given as a price, or an existing object is modified."
"The base of all Magecraft is the use of Magical Energy to produce something that either already exists or can exist. That which falls into the Phantasm category, something made entirely out of images and might not even exist naturally anymore, will eventually be wiped out by the World for being in conflict with this rule."
"Thaumaturgical System is the general term used to refer to the several modern Schools of Magecraft such as Astrology, Kabbalah, Alchemy, and Shinsendou. Divergences can be found among different Thaumaturgical Systems, but the fundamental basis is “to convert Magical Energy inside the user’s body to transform the external world”."
"The practitioner acts in accord with the system that each Thaumaturgical System operates under to execute a pre-built program. That “program” is a set of universal rules that interfere with nature once they are enforced. The power that enforces those rules is the Magical Energy of the Magus and the command to do it is made through his Magic Circuits. The greater the interference, the greater will be the amount of Magical Energy consumed."
These are just small tidbits from the wiki on Magecraft. I highly recommend you have a gander at it. The wiki isn't... entirely accurate, as that's hard when we're going off translations of gods damned magitechno babble that are difficult to parse even in the original language.
However, the wiki is certainly a good place to start.
EDIT: I forgot! Another good place to become learned in Nasuverse magitechno babble is OtakuDaiKun's Lessons in Magecraft series. You could also check out his lore videos that go over the events of Fate/Grand Order, which is where stuff gets really wacky... and by "wacky", I mean "High Fantasy" with a touch of "Sci-Fi" and "Cosmic Horror". He's also not 100% accurate, but, again, good luck at finding something that is.
@@guikoi3101 That's a lot of information - thank you. And I personally don't always need 100% accuracy to be honest, at least not unless I want to talk about something with others without saying incorrect things.
In terms of inspiration though, less than 100% accuracy can often still be enough to come up with new ideas or have existing ones confirmed as promising and worth following up on :)
I'm 100% certain that when Rowling thought up the magic of Harry Potter she thought "Hey that's cool, let's look up what pseudo latin I could use to make it a spell" or "Let's use a spell to fix that problem". I genuinely doubt that she put much more thought into that, least of all into any rules for the magic.
Oh, I'm not going to disagree here necessarily. I only wanted to reference two different yet known magic systems at the start in order to emphasize that there usually are some rules and limitations on all of them. I probably wouldn't use Harry Potter necessarily as an example of a great magic system for example :)
To be fair, I never really borthered to think about it. I have two things cooking at the same time. one has a very deliberately soft magic system, where only certain magics are really explored. The types of magic the protagonist is teaching his students (yes, I'm reverting the old mentor-protege trope. A lot of magic he takes for granted and doesn't think about. It probably has rules. I never even thought about them and I won't have him think about them. BUt every single piece of magic he teaches is explained, although often the explanations are oversimplifications that might only work for certain types of magic.
in one seen for instance, he calls magic the bridge between the mind and the physical realm, when explaining why it is almost impossible to read the mind of a non-sorcerer while a sorcerer is more vulnerable to mind-reading. Actually, the stronger the more vulnerable. Their "bridge" is effectively much bigger and sturdier, so if they do not protect it, there might be a six-lane highway in and out of their mind. Naturally magic is not a physical bridge, and there is not only one "entry point" as the metaphor suggests. Same when he teaches the basics of evocation he freely admits that while it's magic dealing with energy, he has no clue what energy even is but some sort of cosmic conversion factor between different forces of nature, like the lift generated by fire and Lightning blowing up and burning a tree, so that it, in theory should be possible to convert them, but it is much easier to just use energy as is. So use already existing fire to light something, use water to push something etc. So it almost trns into elementalism. in fact he explains that elementalism is the basis for evocation. But other types of magic only get explored in their flaws. Old ritualistic magic is always left with some semi-explanation that gives the reader the idea: okay, he is genuinely guessing here, or it is his intuition. But other kinds of magic are left deliberately vague
I like the protagonist being the mentor approach, very interesting idea :)
I love the video so much it was very informative, I would appreciate a follow up video that goes into more depth about each style of magic and their categories.
I'm glad to hear that you've found some value in the video - thank you for sharing that :)
I do plan to go more in-depth with magic in future videos as well, yes. One - for additional inspiration - was "8 Ancient Magics: Secret Sauce for Worldbuilding" that I made a while back.
I do plan to go deeper into the creation of a magic system as well. For that, I still need a bit of more work done on my end though and finish off a few other things :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer awesome thanks for the response and I will check out the other video and await any new content! Thank you
lol putting harry potter as an example for a magical system killed me xD xD
I never said that it was a sophisticated or good system :) I only wanted to show some well-known examples to emphasize that some form of rules or limitations usually is present in any magic system.
How did I know you were a Sanderson fanboy? 🤣 He's alright. Not my fave. But I can appreciate his pacing and ability to crescendo a narrative. He's a bit mid as far as nuanced characters and emotional depth are concerned, but he's not a bad writer by any stretch. He's just fine. Easy, straightforward reads. No fuss or nonsense. You know what you're getting with Sanderson. He's competent.
A good way to describe his writing style is fitting everything into these nice little boxes with lovely packaging, but inside those boxes are school supplies, socks, a pretty neat telescope, and a jumper you got from your nan. You're happy to receive gifts at all, and one if them was alright, but none were exactly what you had your heart set on. This is a good representation of Sanderson's books for me personally.
I mentioned that because I feel like I'm one of the few fantasy enthusiasts who doesn't subscribe to his methods of magic-crafting or world-building. His world-building is basic and limited to only what is absolutely necessary to tell the story, especially in his earlier works. With Sanderson, you aren't going to see the nuances of society or examine culture beyond the surface level. He's not painting the picture using a calligraphy brush. He uses a hammer and chisel. He's going to give you just enough detail that you understand what's relevant, but the lore isn't as rich as I'd like and he provides little in the way of atmosphere.
And the magic systems he creates are far too rigid and restrictive. I lean more on the soft side of magic because for me magic is about the mystical and fantastical. The more structure you apply, the less wondrous it feels, which is the whole purpose of fantasy, to make us feel the sheer spectacle and wonder that our own reality lacks. By basically turning magic into a science, you've lost sight of what makes fantasy fantastic.
A lot of new writers are going in the direction of Sanderson, which is a bit disheartening tbh. As someone who prefers the mystical and arcane, modern fantasy works scratch that itch less and less. A humble request from this fantasy nerd: if you're creating a fantasy setting, don't forget what makes magic magical. Leave in some of the mystery and intrigue surrounding your magic system. Please. We need more modern, well-written soft magic.
I'm actually not a Sanderson fanboy :) You are not the first mentioning him being referenced in this video and in hindsight I might not have mentioned him at all (except as excample for someone following a hard magic approach). Personally, I like his clarity in what he is doing when it comes to Magic. And he is obviously incredibly successful as a writer. I haven't read everything from him though, and even had novels that are highly praised of his put down without finishing because they just weren't for me.
His three laws though, I do find universally applicable and good as guiding principles to keep in mind, regardless of the way you're designing your magic system in the end. Also, I've watched Sanderson's university lectures many times by now (from multiple years) and those I have to say were incredibe resources whether you like his work or not.
@@TheTaleTinkerer ah, I thought you referenced him in multiple vids so I just assumed. My mistake. But yeah, I don't like his "laws" on building magic. They're too simplistic. I too have seen his lectures. Sanderson writes to be successful and gives advice on how to write a successful novel, not how to write a great novel. This is exactly why his characters lack nuance, his narratives lack heart, and his magic systems/world-building lack depth.
Everything with Sanderson screams "only do the bare minimum to maximize content." It's how he's able to turn out novels so fast. He believes to stay relevant in the author's sphere, you need to turn out a book every year or two. That's insane and why I criticize his work so harshly. I don't want to see the fantasy genre turned into Sanderson clones, because his books aren't actually that good.
Writing should be an act of love, not how quickly you can create content. It's art. It's painstaking. It's methodical and meticulous. You will never create a world as rich as Middle Earth or Dune if you follow Sanderson's advice. Fantasy authors should strive to write a once-in-a-generation story, but I'm not satisfied to merely be compared to Martin or Tolkien. I want my stories to come up when discussing the greatest fantasy works of all time, and I want every other fantasy author to also reach for those heights. If your aim is to leave your mark on history and write something truly special and spectacular, you're not going to do so by following Sanderson's laws. That's all I'm saying.
@@bigredcrazykI'll leave it to the more familar ones in terms of Sanderson's work to critique the quality of his novels, but I do agree that quality work takes time.
Now if that can be done in a year both successfully and high quality? I'm not in a position to state a fact here but full-time I do think it can be possible (when focused and especially if the world is known to you already).
I'll aim for one successful one myself in the next 1-2 years, and that will certainly have more time invested than just 12 months ^^
@@bigredcrazyk I am 25 years old and new to the fantasy genre. My experience with fantasy has been harry potter and Percy Jackson (movies not books). I have read Sanderson's "The Way of Kings" and "Words of radiance" which I liked very much but then I dropped that storm light archive series. What books do you recommend to beginner emerging fans of fantasy? so they are not stuck with Sanderson.
I am an aspiring fiction writer would like to write an epic story following multiple protagonists and antagonists and lots of magic and world building. I have no experience in writing at all and remember I'm only 25 years old. I have gotten books on how to write fiction, character story and its variations. I know it will take a while until I have mastered basic writing and story structure. any advice you could point me to where to start? or receive high level understanding before I write.
you seem very intuitive with the fabric of Fantasy and the core of its life-giving story. Can you tell me why you think modern fantasy refuses to reach heights and profound depth of understanding as seen with the predecessors like Tolkien? Remember, I am a beginner to the genre, and my perception of fantasy was an epic magical action-adventure story as seen with Sanderson because he was my first exposure to fantasy. How does this impact generation of upcoming kids who ascribe to plotted out story structure and magic Sanderson systems instead of going to the old master writers?
I am Gen z and have been engulfed in fantasy fandoms about what is currently popular like attack on titan fantasy anime and etc. all I am looking for is a path to somewhere different, high level and or possible forgotten by the genre.
Thank you
@@obinnaiwudike7644 that was highly flattering. Thank you. Firstly, you should start with the classics. LotR and Silmarillion by Tolkien. The Wheel of Time series. Discworld. The Name of the Wind. Malazan. The First Law trilogy. My personal favorite is A Song if Ice and Fire. There's loads to dip your feet into outside of Sanderson who simply do fantasy better.
You might give the science fantasy genre a go. Dune is more of a traditional fantasy story set in a sci-fi universe. Gideon the Ninth is pretty solid for newer science fantasy. 1984 by Orwell is a staple for anyone wanting to tackle politics in their fantasy. Although it's more of a dystopian than fantasy, it's hugely inspirational across many genres and a staple of book-lovers in general. I'd also read a bit of HP Lovecraft even though he's in the horror space. Loads of fantasy authors take inspiration from him for their villains and eldritch/cosmic horror concepts. As genres go, fantasy, sci-fi, and horror go fairly well together conceptually, so don't be afraid to branch out.
Now that we've got the recommendations out of the way, what is your drive to write high fantasy? What story do you want to tell? What themes and concepts do you wish to explore? Writing a vast fantasy epic isn't easy, especially as a first time author, but it's more than just "something you want to do." Storytelling should be in your blood. You should have an ever present itch to create worlds and explore the tales within them.
That is why I speak harshly of authors who write solely for success. Yes, success should be a goal, but if you're a true storyteller, you will write regardless of how successful you become. Stephen King is a great example. He's said many times that the money is great but it's irrelevant to why he must write. It's the passion for telling stories that keeps him motivated, not the fame or fortune. And it shows. He is hugely successful because you can read his passion and love for the craft on every page he writes.
If you don't have that kind of devotion or aren't sure what your motivations are, I would take a step back and consider why you want to tackle an epic fantasy in the first place, because it's an act of labor and love. Writing something on that kind of scale is going to tear you down and drag you through the muck if you aren't prepared to devote everything you are to it. You won't find this advice in any How-to video on YT. Storytelling is either a part of who you are in your very core, or maybe you shouldn't be a writer. If it consumes you every moment of every day, then inexperience won't stop you, friend.
But yes, you need to read a lot more to get an idea of how grand some of these epics are. It might just change your mind once you realize how much work actually goes into them.. You can watch all the videos and lectures on writing that there are and still be vastly unprepared when it comes to high fantasy. Just read. Really that's the best advice. Familiarize yourself with the genre, and then explore other genres and sub-genres. The more you read, the more you'll understand how a proper novel should flow, the amount of detail you'll have to to invest in it, etc.
Read loads, all the while penning down things you like and dislike. Subjects you'd like to explore. Themes that interest you. When I read, I'm taking down notes. That character is really great, why do I identify with them so much? That plot twist was really cool and well thought out. Why did this concept work in this novel better than this other novel? You'll begin to notice the strengths and weaknesses of every book you read, and that will better help you understand how to implement those same strengths while avoiding the weaknesses.
And lastly, write. Write, write more, and when you are tired of writing, write some more. Practice, practice, practice. Short stories are a great way to get the ball rolling. It will help you with basic structure and plotting. Inciting incident, rising action, climax, resolution. It's as simple as it gets, you only have to focus on a single narrative and pov, and it will give you much needed practice. I've written many short stories, especially horror stories.
Believe it or not, but the structure of horror is easy to plot, and it forces you to think about a twist for the climax, because that's just expected from the genre. You can write a 30-50 page horror story in a month, easy. Start out small. Keep the narrative tight and to the point. Once you get a feel for writing short stories, you can translate that into longer narratives, add more pov characters, more side quests, etc.
Anyway, I've thrown a lot your way to think about. Hope this helps get you started.
All magic has a system that makes it logical. The first type is soft magic which isn't necessarily systematic or logical. Wait a sec...
Sorry, not 100% sure I could follow you here, could you elaborate a bit? :) If you meant to say that I was saying the examples at the start are "hard magic systems", then this is not what I meant to imply here. I only gave two somewhat known examples of magic in general and posed questions if they were void of any limitations or rules whatsoever :)
i made my own magic system for my book im writing. do you think its good?:
Magic system with 11 categories and symbolic animals
1. divination (parrots)
Symbol animal: Parrot
Ability: Divination
Description: Mages can use crystal balls or simple dice to look into the future or past or find out prophecies.
2. telekinesis (owls)
Symbolic animal: Owl
Ability: Telekinesis
Description: Mages can move things or create temporary objects through thought. This ability requires a lot of willpower and mental strength.
3. transformation (foxes)
Symbolic animal: Fox
Ability: Transformation
Description: Mages can transform themselves into other people or animals, but must have touched or seen them first. Staying in another form for too long can cause them to forget their original form and be unable to return.
4. druidic magic (bears)
Symbolic animal: Bear
Ability: Nature magic
Description: Mages are connected to nature and use large wands to perform their magic.
5. Alchemy (Snakes)
Symbolic animal: Snake
Ability: Brew potions
Description: Mages can create potions that provide effects such as invisibility, healing or invulnerability. The strength of the potion depends on the ingredients used.
6. attack magic (lions)
Symbolic animal: Lion
Ability: Offensive magic
Description: Mages use their hands or short wands (30-40 cm) to cast offensive spells such as hurt, push or kill spells. These spells require a high level of experience.
7. protective magic (turtles)
Symbol animal: Turtle
Ability: Defensive magic
Description: Mages can create barriers and shields that offer protection. The materials used to perform the magic are varied, from pebbles to hand gestures. The complexity of the protective spells influences the amount of energy required.
8. elemental magic (eagle)
Symbolic animal: Eagle
Ability: Control of the elements
Description: Mages can influence and create the elements of fire, earth, water, ice, air and electricity. They often specialize in one or two elements in order to strengthen them.
9. ritual magic (wolves)
Symbolic animal: Wolf
Ability: Perform rituals
Description: Mages can create beings or objects through specific rituals. The complexity of the rituals varies depending on the strength of the desired result.
10. healing magic (axolotl)
Symbolic animal: Axolotl
Ability: Healing
Description: Mages can heal wounds with plants or hand movements. The dead cannot be revived. When healing, they take a tiny portion of the pain, which teaches them compassion.
11. rune magic (bats)
Symbolic animal: Bat
Ability: Runic magic
Description: Mages use runes to achieve various magical effects. They draw runes in the air for weaker magic or on surfaces for stronger effects. To achieve stronger results, they must touch a living mage of this club.
Summoning the symbolic animals
General ability: Each mage of a club can summon the symbol animal of his club, regardless of which magic he knows.
Characteristics of the symbolic animals:
The animals listen to the summoner's commands.
They can be killed, but can be summoned again after some time.
There can be several identical club animals at the same time.
Structure and society
Residence: All mages live in a huge tower, which is divided into different sections for each club. Despite their differences, they live in peace with each other.
Government: At the top of the tower lives a giant green firebird that belongs to the ruler of the mages. This ruler controls all types of magic. His sons and daughters can control two to three types of magic, and only one of them can control all types of magic.
This system provides a rich and varied basis for stories and character development in your magical world.
Hi there, your magic system sounds quite creative and well-thought-out. The use of symbolic animals for each category adds a unique and memorable touch. Here are a few thoughts that came to mind:
Balance and Limitations: I would ensure each type of magic has clear limitations and costs to maintain balance. For example, what happens if a diviner reads the future too often? Or if a transformation mage gets stuck in another form?
Interconnections: I'd also think about how different magic types might interact. Can an elemental mage's fire spells be enhanced by an alchemist's potions? Can a protective mage shield against attack magic effectively?
Cultural Impact: How does society view each type of magic and its practitioners? Are some types more respected or feared than others?
Symbolic Animals: The ability to summon symbolic animals is a neat idea. I would consider giving these animals specific abilities that align with their respective magic, making them more than just symbolic.
Ruler and Society: The structure of having a ruler who controls all types of magic is intriguing. What kind of political dynamics and tensions does this create within the tower though? Is it really just peace all the time despite all this variety combined with a central control figure?
Overall, your system provides a rich framework for storytelling and character development. I'm sure you'll have quite some fun with it and hope my pondering above helped a bit :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer so im very thankfull. this is the best and longest comment i got. so i like it when somebody tells me what i can do better, not just that its great and thats it. so yeah i gonna look what i will do with your tips and try to implement them into the system. thanks really!
@@TheTaleTinkerer yeah sorry that i havent replied yet. so yeah yu helped me quite a lot. i've got many different opinions of friends and other youtubers and im rewriting it now. Thank you really
Skyrim has it all
It's been A LONG time since I played Skyrim but wasn't it mostly a five school based system with spells that were learned from tomes? :)
Skyrim includes ALL aspects you mentioned here, one way or an other, some individual races are born with magic affiliation, some can learn it, randomized magic attacks are also a thing thanks to the wabajack an item that randomizes what the attack triggers, it may turn the enemy into a chicken or any elemental attack etc. and yeah, the player itself can etiher learn it or find items/clothing/runes"aka. words of power So my point is, skyrim includes all even if just a bit.@@TheTaleTinkerer
The best magic system is Nen
I actually haven't looked into that one yet but will definitely put it on my research list. Thanks for the mention :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer I was half joking 😅😅
But yeah Hunter X Hunter's magic system is kinda lit
@@ZeRasseru Since I don't know it, I obviously took your comment as "fact" ^^ But will look into it anyway, always something more to learn :)
Imagine if Harry Potter world had no rules on magic. Well, we dont need to imagine, it does not.
The books are full of things used once and never more, for no explanation. Full of magic that works as the story demands, and not in any actual rule. Even the very own Hogwarts rules are not applied uniformly as a set of rules, and instead as plot devices. Let alone the movies.
A very problematic problem with magic as exposed in the video is that the rules exposed are not about the magic itself, but the "writing of magic", which is the same problem as the movies which employ "rules writing conflict" instead of "rules of conflict". Writing is the observation and depiction of something that the mind comes up in non verbal language.
But I am really catching the drift of "Transform the following rant into a essay" as a prompt for chat GPT.
This here is a good statement for sure: A very problematic problem with magic as exposed in the video is that the rules exposed are not about the magic itself, but the "writing of magic" - and I am sure that I could have broken it down better or emphasized more in my video as well.
Perceived rules (e.g. by the reader or audience) and actual rules (e.g. an existing hard magic system, or like I would call it law-governed magic system) known by the author are quite different things and are easy to get mixed up with one another.
With this video in particular, I was trying to focus more on the underlying aspect of worldbuilding, meaning the knowledge and complexity that the creator/writer is aware of, regardless of the depth and transparency of how it is presented to the readers.
One spectrum, not two
I'm afraid you lost me here, sorry, could you elaborate a bit maybe? :)
Step one don't nerf you main character and not explain how the magic systems work only for your main character to become a god later on. Step two don't make a main character so overpower that nobody cares about that main character. Step three just make a fun magic system with a fun main character that flows with the story. Remember when creating your own world build you want it to be fun for you and your audience. After all you are the first person who has to read there own crappy work.
That does somehow sound as if you had bad experiences with magic systems in the past?! :)
black clover is exactly economic magic… like to a T to the point where the magic became enate
I'm not familiar with Black Clover personally but I appreciate the reference. Will put it on my list to look into whenever I can :)
One way to ultimately kill magic in your magic system is make it very hard core deterministically rules based.
Once the rules are known, nothing is "magic" anymore. And because it's dependable, it's as wonderous as doing long math on a engineering problem.
I partially agree but I'd differenciate between reader and writer here personally. You can have an incredibly deterministically rules based system and still have the reader experience the wonders of a mystical magic system. It all depends on what and how you convey it :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer I'd argue you still reach the same end problem.
If it is deterministic, its only a matter of time before the society "figures it out". Or you have to invent contrived reasons why the reader (or author) can understand it, but the "highly intelligent" peoples of many eras never can.
Either way, the end of the arc points to a stagnant end world where everything is figured out, and without mystery, wonder or exploration, it's pretty dystopian.
At this point, I find it's less about "magic" and it's more the authors own philosophical take on things.
In other words, if your goal is to elicit the feeling of magic and wonder (and future magic and wonder) there must be a thread of randomness or chaos that can never be fully accounted for. It doesn't have to be the whole system, but it does have to exist in some minute form.
I firmly believe magic systems make magic less magical. You shouldn’t be able to understand magic, it needs to be a force of nature.
Is that purely from the view of the reader or do you feel that even the writer should not fully comprehend what rules magic actually follow? :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer I don’t know, both could be fun
@@Bakedbean843It opens up a lot of risk for inconsistency though if the writer themselves doesn't even understand the magic system - regardless how hard or soft it is :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer I don’t care if magic is inconsistent! It’s magic! In the fantasy world I am working on, magic was deliberately forgotten for its inpredictability! Plus, if you don’t explain the rules, the rules don’t exist.
Please cite forces of nature that can't be explained and understood.
The writer not knowing what the magic in their own story does is fun?? The story isn't a living being buddy. Is this person rolling a dice to see if things work or not?
"I don’t care if magic is inconsistent! It’s magic!" Meaning that, at any point, the writer could pull something out of their ass and fix a problem they themselves created, without a good and satisfying reason.
Sorry, but I can’t help but note that your Yeti is very creepy.
Do you think making his whites yellow and his pupils black would really ruin your character?
Appreciate the feedback, but the avatar was just a short-lived placeholder :) I've only started this channel from scratch by myself two months ago and the first two videos where using AI voice and (for the second one) this avatar. Everything since then is with camera and mic after being satisfied with the setup and creating process from there.
I'm tired of hearing about Sanderson, his magic system from what I've seen , only mistborn, is terrible.
That is an absolute valid opinion, and thank you for sharing it. I do want to add though that Sanderson only plays a minor role in the creation of this step by step process of mine.
His three "laws" are mostly added as guiding principles how to use the framework but his work had little to do with the framework itself.
You could take out his laws and the high-level and sub-categories mentioned, including the step by step process in the video, all still apply as is :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer It's still a good video don't mistake my criticism of Sanderson as a critique towards yourself.
I hold nothing against Sanderson as a person, I just really do not like mistborns idea of magic and as its my only exposure to him i find the constant mentioning of his system to be confusing, its as unmagical as it gets with the powers assigned being outright useless, Magic like any other constant in a world wouldn't be so artificial as he has written it and it certainly shouldn't be so under-powered and irrelevant.
Slowing down time is supposed to be a powerful ability yet with his attempt at a "dark" magic system its just outright useless, and I'll mention one of the abilities they can get and likely the only one they get if they aren't the main character can possibly just be depression, gold makes them super depressed and want to die, that's not a power that's a disability.
@@acewmd.Thank you for the additional feedback. And I do understand where you are coming from. What I personally like about the Mistborn magic is the opportunity to use it as a "law-governed" or "hard" magic system due to the quite straightforward use as well as the utility gives when consuming metals.
Now, how effective or inspiring the magic in Mistborn might be, I'll leave that for others to judge. I personally tend to prefer others directions to (as done in my own world).
@@TheTaleTinkerer Oh, are you published?
@@acewmd.No, but I plan to self-publish within the next 1-2 years. Not a big fan of the constraints of publishers.
I've been writing and worldbuilding for over 20 years now and - together with this TH-cam channel - decided that it is time to at least try to make something more out of that than just a hobby.
If it remains just that - all good, I love it anyway, but why not at least try to make more out of it :)
1:04 Based on my watching of the Harry Potter movies, I think it has a very poor terrible magic system.
What is it that you disliked in particular? The lack of clear rules?
@@TheTaleTinkerer . Yeah that pretty much seems to be my issue with it but I guess that just means I prefer hard magic systems over soft ones.
I might have been mistaken when thinking it was objectively boring, it's just not for me.
@@zombiedemon1762 That's the beauty of "personal preferences", there is enough variety out there so everyone can have their fair share of suitable stories, movies, games, ... :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer . Yes.
6 Political.
Magic existed, but it's controled by gods and wizard ingénieur, who choos how magic work. And made it up-to-date every day. Full of political choice by an administration.
> Rosecrucian magic.
D&D with the mechanicus is that type. If you know it.
Sounds like an interesting concept, will definitely give that a bit more thought. Thanks for bringing it up :)
You have just selected the two worst examples of a magic system i can recall my dude, better do a good job saving this sinking ship.
Well, you have saved it
I'm glad that I was able to "save it" :)
Also, I never meant to imply that these magic systems were exceptional examples when it comes to high-quality ones. They were just meant to illustrate the nature of questioning the rules and sources of a magic system in general :)
The algorithm brought me here. Just gonna say, I hate AI generated voices. And I'm giving this channel a pass.
Sorry you feel this way. I actually just used AI voice for the first two Videos until my setup and creation process was refined. All videos since then are with cam and mic.
Would love to hear your feedback on one of those as well if you'd be willing to give it a chance. If not, all the best to you anyway :)
This sounds like an AI voice
As mentioned in another comment, this is a synthezied version, yes.
The majority of videos on the channel are in full with cam/mic but I cannot produce all videos in that format all the time.
So rather than not getting any videos out, I switch sometimes to an easier production format that gets the same attention to detail of mine but spares me some hazzle with recording etc.
There is no such thing as soft magic, though; only degrees of obfuscation. Also, Harry Potter has a horrible magic system that breaks it's world.
As mentioned in a few comments already, including Harry Potter was mainly to present some well-known magic in order to highlight the fact that all of them, at least to some degree, have something that resembles rules or at least a loose framework.
I never said (or meant to imply) that Harry Potter had a great magic system, because that, I probably would have to disagree with as well :)
@@TheTaleTinkerer Apologies then. Didn't see any Harry Potter while going through top comments.
@@bishopofeternity48Oh, please don't apologize. I'm grateful for any comments, feedback or attempts of an discussion.
This is one of the reasons I started this channel 2,5 months ago - to engage with other creative consumers and creators :)