I've shot a lot of whitetails under 50 yards and out to about 200 yards with my 243 using a 100 grain soft point boattail and it destroys what it hits. Many times, the bullet is just under the skin on the opposit rear shoulder area. The bullet mushrooms very well and makes quick, lethal kills. In 25 plus years, it has never let me down.
I have to agree but I use a slightly heavier grain, however using buckshot at around 50 yards I have experienced the shot staying just under the skin on the opposite side, those shells are lethal.
@@mjuberian my experience with 243 differs from yours. I shot a doe inside 30 yards a couple years ago and was impressed with the blood trail left over the 40ish yards she ran. I shot a wild pig at around 50yds with same load with a quarting away shot and got total pass through and the animal dropped in its tracks. I'm curious as to the experiences you have had with the cartridge as well which loads you have used.
My biggest fear is my wife will meet the guy I buy all my guns from before I die and the subject of how much they cost🤔😳😂 it’s a good thing the shoe store and plants store are not next to the gun store🤔😳
Hey Ron, my first and only experience with a 460 Weatherby was at an informal shooting range south of Fairbanks, AK one very cold winter day. While I had experienced 68 below before, that day was a balmy 38 below zero, so I bundled nicely in my artic gear and went shooting; summer was just too far away and -38F was warm enough back in my youth. One of our local doctors showed up as well, with his brand new Weatherby in preparation for a trip to Africa. For some reason he was more than willing to let me shoot it, and not being to bright, I was excited to give it a try. In those days I had not yet learned to lay my thumb along the side of the grip, but instead, tightly gripped most rifles with my thumb over the top of the pistol grip, which I soon learned, could quickly cause ones thumb to ram itself into a very cold (nearly frozen) nose. Man that hurt! Not my shoulder or cheek bone, just my nose, so I graciously thanked him for the opportunity and went back to minding my business with my little 270 Winchester....once my nose quit running and the tears froze. Thanks for the memories.
When comparing the .243 to the .22-250 in my opinion they are both excellent cartridges. When I hunt big game a 24 caliber is the smallest bullet I can legally hunt with so the .22 caliber is a varmint rifle and the .243 is a big game rifle.
My state has a 6mm minimum for deer, but you can’t carry a rifle of 6mm or greater in the field if you’ve tagged out and the season is still open. So, if I get a deer, I have to use something smaller to hunt coyotes. An 8 twist 22-250 is an awesome predator rifle, especially with 75gr bullets.
The 243 is good to all ranges within it's reasonable reach. According to the specs and ballistics I would trust it on whitetail size deer out to 400-450 yards if you are accurate enough. For those of us that are mere mortals, keeping under 300 yards is better. As for expansion, I have 2 stories. The first story was from whitetail hunting in Wisconsin in 1997. The last deer I took before heading off to grad school when I couldn't hunt due to time and location issues. I was using 95 grain Remington soft points and hit the buck on the run at about 100-125 yards. Upon field dressing I saw very little damage and no signs of expansion. I had clipped the arteries on the heart so down he went. Second story is from fall 2022 in Michigan. I am now back into hunting after way too long away. I was using the same rifle now with 100 grain Federal power-shok soft points. This time it was a standing shot at 50 yards. Very different result this time. Entrance and exit wounds were obvious and quite large relative to the bullet. The bullet did a lot of damage to the internals. Bullet technology has come a long way since I was a kid in my opinion. In the 90s I recall several people I would hunt with (neighbors, family, friends) complain about everything from 243 to 280 failing to show signs of expansion. Many went to ballistic tips which at the time were relatively new and expensive for the common hunter that only goes after deer once a year. Again, I sense bullet tech has changed a lot since the 90s and I'm finding most rounds in "deer hunting" rifles will expand.
I had a similar experience with the 100 gr core loc in my .243 the first time I used it. I switched to 90 gr Sorroco and never had a problem from 30 yd to 300. This round has taken 15 deer all one shot kills.
@@walterkleban2746 While I'm looking forward to testing some 130 gr Sciroccos in my 6.5 Swede Zastava. Been stocking up on anything good in this caliber since it's not super common in the States. My next rifle will probably be the 6mm ARC. A 90 gr Scirocco in that would be the 🐈's 🐴
I have had nothing but success with Scirocco's both in .243 and 3006. I was able to make a one shot kill on a bull elk using 180 gr Scirocco in the 3006. It turned after being hit and dropped in its tracks. I have been loading 165 gr Scirocco 3006 round because they are more accurate in my rifle.
I’m a math professor with a degree in physics. I also dabble in long-range target shooting. The Coriolis is a consequence of a rotating frame of reference just like the centripetal effect is. The rotation in question is the earth. Nevertheless, the parameters used are vectors. This makes the computations highly non-elementary. Honestly, for most rifle shooting, wind is a bigger problem.
Mr. Spomer, Cannot Thank YOU enough for your great presentations. I've learned more from them than I can remember! So I have shot a .460 Weatherby mag in Alaska that a friend had and I wasn't knocked off my feet but it's not something I'd want to do any quick follow up shots with! The shot was into a 55 gallon drum that was used as a burn barrel in his backyard and there was a half a wheel barrel, at least, of wet ashes that exploded out the top. Yes I had a bit of a sore shoulder. Don't know what the bullet weight was. I'll stick with my 30.06,,,, Please keep up the great work!! 😎👍🦌
Hi..bud..I don't know what 22wm.shells you use.But I've got a CZ512 in 22WM. & I find the ICC game points work really good on coyotes..I just thought I'd bring up to you..
Funny your viewer suggested writing down the disposition of all your guns in case something happens to you; I just did that about 3 weeks ago at my wife’s suggestion. I have a lot of guns and she’s not a gun fan so she has no clue what they are or what to do with them if something happens to me. So I listed them all by description and serial number, any history I knew of them, who they were to go to on my passing, and anything else I thought was worth mentioning. It gives us both peace of mind just in case something does happen. Good advice from that viewer and thank you Ron for passing that info along, it’s definitely something to think about. Love your channel, keep doing what you’re doing and God bless. 👍
If you want to have a fair comparison between the 22-250 vs the 243. Try the 50 grain bullet in 22 cal. Then try the 58 grain v-max in the 243. The 243 will outperform the 22-350 in every category. Both are great varmint cartridges but the 58 grain v-max in hand loads is faster and flatter at distance. The 243 win is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. But once again accuracy is still the most important recipe for a clean kill.
I run a custom 22-250AI i chambered. Amazing round right between the standard 22-250n and .243. Less recoil than a 243 and no doughnutting in my brass. If you jump up to a 243AI thats another animal and absolutely for me is the best
@@eduffy4937I’ve shot both over the years. The 22-250 AI with a slow twist barrel 1/8-1/9 and 80 gr bullets are my favorite combination ! Many ground hogs, prairie dogs out to 1000 yds. Best shot 1245 yd prairie dog ! And many deer out to 600yds.
Instead of comparing the .22-250 Rem. directly to the .243 Win. Let's take a look at the. 250-3000 Savage when compared to the .243 Win., both with 87 grain bullets. Why the .250-3000 ? The .250-3000 Savage IS the parent case to the .22-250 Rem. It was the very first rifle cartridge to exceed 3,000 fps, designed around a .25 caliber, 87 grain bullet. Both were designed primarily as deer cartridges, with the .243 claiming dual purpose roles with lighter bullets, while there were heavier 117 grain bullets available in .257 diameter bullets. The .22-250 was intended for lighter weight varmint bullets at greater distances for smaller critters.
Many years ago a good friend bought a Weatherby 460 rifle, he said he got a great deal as it was only fired once. His proof was it came with a box of cartridges and only one was missing. Next time I saw him he asked if I wanted a good deal on a 460 Weatherby, only fired twice!!
I had a 460 weatherby. Shot it 3 times. I was afraid of permanently damaging the nerve in my shoulder.i could shoot my 300 weatherby vanguard 6 times before my back would hurt. Sold both of them. 280 Remington for the win chuck
7mm-08 is used quite a bit in the UK and ammo is available. Mainland Europe the 7x64 is pretty much the main 7mm cartridge as its not military like 7x57, and has a good fast twist rate to handle heavier bullets for use on boar - which are now the main game animal across much of Europe. And now that places like France no longer ban military calibres, the 308 is pretty much the go to calibre for the vast majority of European hunting, although 30-06 is also very popular. In UK we have a few boar but not many. 243 Win is probably 25% of the market, 270 and 308 make up a good chunk of the rest with the 6.5, 7mm and others all making up the rest.
Interesting video as usual. As a French viewer of your channel and a passionate hunter and shooter : I don't know for the rest of Europe (Federico seems Italian) but for sure we can find ammo and rifles chambered in 7mm08 in France ! It isn't the most widepsread caliber but it's easy to lay hand on ammo and rifle in any gunstore out here ! By the way, my go-to hunting rifle is a 243 : varmint, foxes, boars and roe deers !
Wow! As a wounded game tracker, I couldn’t agree more with your and P.O. Ackley’s statements. Almost all of the deer I attempt to recover with my tracking dogs are a result of poor bullet placement. As I’ve commented before on your recommendation against head and neck shots, a few inches can make a huge difference in the outcome, regardless of caliber. Those shots have way too small margin of error, and leave wounds that lead to a slow miserable death to ever consider ethical. I do see a lot of smaller calibers due to predominantly being used by youth hunters, which generally still falls on poor placement. Regardless of caliber however, if it’s through the vitals it is efficient and effective. I enjoy turning a bad situation into a joyous occasion. On average I take more deer with a knife per year than most hunters will shoot in a lifetime. I’ve had experience with most every imaginable situation involving recovering a wounded deer possible during the past 40 years, and witnessed the effects of all caliber/wound combinations, baying/dispatching, hidden under banks/holes, drown and sunken, on and on, it’s been a true blessing to share all those experiences with hunters.
Proper aim or more accurately not aiming properly is likely the leading cause of your services being needed. I I started out bow hunting almost fifty years ago with a old recurve bow. 15 yards was pretty much the limit with that hand me down bow. It was drilled into my head by the guy who gave it to me to take my time and be certain of the shot or don't take it. I still bow hunt more than rifle hunt because I enjoy the stealth aspect of getting close to within about thirty yards which is my personal hunting limit distance even though my modern bow is dead accurate out to the sixty yards I have room to practice in the yard. I aim small and miss small. That same mindset carries over into rifle hunting, I'll take my time and pass if I'm not absolutely sure I can make it a one shot kill and drop the animals within a few yards. I normally use my ar loaded with either federal fusions or usually hand loaded speer gold dot 62g bonded soft points. Both are great rounds if you hit lungs or heart and I try to cause damage to both. I passed a shot at a really great 10 point buck, big body for a central Texas buck because I just couldn't get the shot I trusted. My neighbors son got him the next day, he still gives me a hard time about that lol. I don't want to call a tracker because I screwed up or because that deer moved a few inches in the time it took me to pull the trigger as happened to me a couple years ago with a twenty yard bow shot, thankfully she turned towards me almost in place in that same split second and I still got her but it was close. I see people on the local bow hunting group page every year who have to call out someone with a dog because they lost the blood trail after a couple hundred yards, that's purely a bad shot or shooting too far out and not allowing room for the deer to move which they can drop to jumping position in I think .14 seconds when the arrow is within about ten feet of them. I might be ocd about it and over limiting myself but I can live with that, a lost wounded animal suffering I can't as easily.
.22-250 set up with a twist fast enough to throw 75gr pills makes it a lot more versatile. Most of them are set up with barrels that max out with 55gr being spun stable, which in my book make them limited to varmints. The 243 loaded with a good partition or bonded 100gr bullet makes a wonderful little rifle for thin skinned game and small hogs.
Yeah, it difficult to find a fast twist 22-250 but they are out there. After having shoulder surgery I'm in the market for a 22-250 for my new whitetail slayer
Ron, I very much enjoy your videos and especially your break down into chapters individual subjects discussed in the podcast/video thank you for your informative view on such a wide range of shooting subjects!
In regards to the 30-30 vs. .243.. I shot my first mule deer with a winchester. 243 with 100 gr. at 40 yards. It was a 2x3, not the biggest deer, probably 175-200 lbs. It dropped where it was shot, didn't twitch or flail, and was dead before I could walk said 40 yards. Shot placement is what truly matters more so than caliber and projectile shape or velocity. As long as your using a sufficient load, within that loads range (per kinetic energy or velocity), and most importantly your TRUE abilities and confidence.
I have fired the 460 Wetherby a number of times. This one has a ported barrel (built in brake). It’s recoil, despite the brake, is something to respect for sure. The muzzle blast is even more significant. Blows light items off the shooting bench etc. Lovey caliber you don’t get excited about shooting multiple times in a short period of time. 😅
Shot a 22.250 once while in a arm sling recently picked one up ruger m- 77 1977 looking forward to sighting it in in November i live in az so that's when weather permits love your work ron keep it up brother
Ron, great series of questions and answers. With regards to Weatherby, I am missing 3 of the original Weatherby Magnums which are (224, 416, & 460). However, I worked for Bill Wiseman for years maki g rifle barrels. I have shot all of them and many other standard and wildcat cartridges. A rifle with the appropriate weight for the cartridge, balance and ergonomic fit stock will be more manageable. When looking a felt recoil, there are two different effects going on. 1. Pure recoil measured in Ft Lbs. The other is Speed at which it comes at you. My 378 is a 26” barrel with no brake. It is a fast recoil, but manageable off the sticks or standing. The bench is a different story. The 460 is brutal. Highly recommend a brake and recoil reducer. My suggestion is get a 404 JEFFERY, 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, or 458 Winchester Magnum. World of difference between recoil. I do agree with the comment on the 340 Weatherby Magnum. In a proper weighted rifle it is an outstanding cartridge. Spot on with chose the right bullet and put it in the right place. My grandson shot his 1st deer with a 22-250 with 60 grain Nosler Partition Bullets. The same day my son shot a deer with a 257 Weatherby Magnum. When we were processing the deer he could not believe the terminal damage and size of wound channel, and size of exit hole from the 22-250. You could almost stick fist thru him. Both deer were taken with broadside heart shots.
The last 5 deer 🦌 I’ve shot have been taken with a .22-250 with a 50 grain bullet…. I take this rifle with me because my young daughter hunts with me and It’s her rifle and I chose this round for multiple reasons snd recoil being a real concern…. Maybe this season she will finally take a deer with the ole Model 77 Ruger…. I have been looking to get her a Mark V Weatherby Varmintmaster in .22-250 as well… I really enjoy your channel Ron…. Keep on doing what your doing….. God Bless
For the 30-30, don't forget about that ballistic tip from Hornady. Out to 200 or 250, which is further than I usually shoot, it does a great job and I prefer to hunt with it more than my bolts.
7mm is a great caliber for hand loaders. There's such a massive range of weight grain and designs you can do just about anything within that one caliber.
Many years ago when I had recently graduated with an BS degree in Engineering Physics, I found myself in an Artillery Fire Direction training class (after which I served in VietNam practicing this art), and when we got to a form where we enter the direction of fire and extract a correction which is direction dependent, I raised a comment that this was a correction for the coriolis effect, which it was and in this instance the reason for the effect is that our entire frame of reference including both our field piece and the target are located on the surface of the earth which is rotating like a spinning basketball. The classic physics problem to evaluate is a train postulated to be travelling a certain direction at a certain speed and knowing the mass of the train we can calculate the lateral force it exerts on the track. If not constrained the train will appear to travel along a curve rather than a straight line because the earth is rotating beneath us. It does not depend on air drag, it is simple physics. Our instructor was not interested in this, his point of view was that this was just how we were supposed to calculate our firing solution. I quickly realized that most people do not need to know this much.
Great advice about keeping firearms documented. Ihave most of mine done and need to add a couple. I believe P. O. Ackley and Vernon Speer were lifelong buddies. I think they were born a month apart and died a month apart but I would have to look the year up again. I know the firearm and ammo industry lost 2 of the best.
Ron you are a super 👌 guy... I enjoy your videos 📹 You keep up with modern ballistics very well 👍 for an older fella... I read 90% of it too. But I tend to go back to what I know being afield. Placement is key 🔑 I like that you mention it regularly. Old School rounds like 3030 and 45/70 are superb under 200 yards for 90% of game 🎮 👌... of course the latter carries more energy. Just saying you need to mention a little more old school 🏫 thinking for the old school rounds 3030 being a decent brush caliber, can't be forgotten 👍😎 Carry on
G'day from the sticks of Aus, you're a man after my own heart, I've put my shoulder out & you're soothing my pain, I've passed my knowledge to those that are interested, I can have an ear, thought & yarn until the cow's come home & a warming snort 'round the cam'fire, enjoy the vids, Aussie Vet Vik 🍻👍😊😂
Ron, great point regarding the 22-250 v. 243. I had been in the market for a deer rifle for the last 2 season, but wasn't sure what I wanted. I borrowed a buddies 30-30 and killed 3 deer with it. Dropped all 3 - no tracking. 100 yd shots. So I ask my buddy if I can buy the gun. He politely declines, understandable, but that really upset my wife. She said 'that gun is magic, you don't miss, you drop deer in their tracks". She really was upset that he wouldn't sell it. I had to remind her that David killed Goliath with a slingshot and rock. As in retail, "Location, Location, Location".
The right bullet in the right place is the most important thing in clean efficient kills! My banker asked me in the 80s why I’m using a 270 WBY for hunting elk. My answer was I’m a firm believer that it really doesn’t matter the caliber as much as using a heavy constructed bullet and put it in the right place. I made a huge mistake selling that rifle it wasn’t brutal to shoot and was accurate and deadly. Then they came out with this bullet called the Barnes X bullet and I believe that rifle with the140 X bullets would handle business with any of North American game including Brown bears. But bears would have me carrying a bear rifle when I know they are around and or on the menu. Great video Ron.
Ron, a few years back I purchased a CZ 455 in a 22 WMR. The ammo that shoots the best is CCI 22 FMJ. The Norma also shoots very well. In addition to brass issues, I suspect the bullet points may be the issue. All ammo with shoot under 1/2” MOA for 10 shot group. This is a bull barrel rifle with a 4-16X target Scope. However, the CZ 455 in a 22 LR will group into the 1/10 and 0’s it favors Federal Gold Medal over Norma and Eley Match.
Sorry about the equations in the earlier video. Couldn't help myself. Anywhooo ... your latest statement is on point. Centrifugal and Coriolis 'forces' are not real in that you can't point to a force which causes the effect. That is why it is better to call them an "effect" and not a "force". Definitions aside, they are real effects and stem from the fact we live in a rotating coordinate system. Once the bullet leaves the barrel of the firearm the bullet is no longer in the rotating coordinate system but rather in its own non-rotating system. The two systems are 'accelerating' relative to each other. The centrifugal effect is a correction to the radially downward force of gravity resulting in a small decrease in the effective gravitational pull. The Coriolis effect is a small horizontal deflection of a free projectile. To give some scope of the deflection, in the 1914 sea battle of the Falkand Islands, there is tall tale going around about British naval gun sights being set up for battle in the northern hemisphere were the deflection is to the right while in the southern hemisphere the deflection is to the left. Turns out 1914 naval gun control ignored the Coriolis effect as far as the historians can determine. I ran some numbers years back and the deflection is on the order of 300 yards to the left for a projectile fired at 2600 ft/s at 37 degrees above the horizontal assuming no air drag. I've seen reports on the ranges being 15,000 to 16,500 yards. Yikes. Turns out that the Coriolis effect is too small to be considered in naval gunfire of 1914 given all the other other possible issues: knowing range to target, wind at various altitudes, air density, temperature, movement of ships at sea, etc. The failure of the British at Falkands and later at Jutland in WW1 lay squarely on the shoulders of the British naval brass. .
My first experience of a 22-250 was a man was harvesting a big steer about 750-800 lbs.that he raised for beef...man stood about 30 ft. away from the steer and as the steer turned to look straight at the rifle the guy shot straight between the eyes and the steer dropped immediately straight down without a single flinch... granted it was at very close range but you have to consider the bullet was a tiny 22 cal...
@Lesley Boeder One day (this is a true story), a friend asked me to help him butcher 4 pigs and to bring my 44. Four shots into the brain cage, four slit throats, all went well till the last pig. He got up and started walking around. 👻 I was asked to shoot the pig again. So I aimed, hesitated, and hesitated some more, finally setting the gun down and asking, "Where do you shoot a dead pig to kill it?" Neither one of us could come up with an answer. I'll bet you have a few ghost steer tales, too. 😉
In my younger days, while working in a slaughterhouse, a full grown bull got loose and I witnessed my co-worker drop him as he charged. It seemed like an eternity while he waited for a close in shot between the eyes with the 22LR. The bull dropped and slid on the floor, his head coming to rest at the guy's feet. Amazing shot placement and trust in his ability. Of course, he also had his own custom kill business during his off hours, always 22LR because it does less damage to the carcass. Shot placement is king.
Most of the time Ron I shoot around 1 to 150 years here in the southeast were in wooded and heavy bust country @ times it's even closer like 50yards I've even shot under that, but there in the southern part of the state I can stretch it out a bit and get some long shots in but only when I find some land & the owner lets me shoot on it I can target pratice a 1k shots
My buddy has a 460, and I've shot it several times. The recoil is heavy and brisk as anyone would imagine, but it's not horrible to shoot. His Weatherby is also scoped and has never nipped either one of us. I own a CZ Safari in 458, and although there is a noticeable difference in felt recoil, it's not as great as one would think !!!
The fastest practical, usable cartridge I ever heard of was a WEATHERBY wildcat. It was a 22-240 WEATHERBY mag. Barrel life was not the longest, but it was pushing 5000 + fps
Ron i personally think the 243 it can shoot a 55 grain bullet all the way to a 100 grain bullet at some really fast speed.thanks great show .its appreciated
Hello Ron, here is a simple analogy of Coriolis. But first we need to define two types of acceleration. On something spinning you have centripetal acceleration (ie turning left and feeling like you being pulled right) the second is the tangential acceleration (ie: normal acceleration if you were going in a straight line) which happens when some spins up(rpm increase) or slows down(rpm decrease). Basically leaning forward or back ward like on a city bus. Now on something spinning you can get both at the same time. If something is spinning up or slowing down (like a merry go round speeding up). If it's steady rpm you only get centripetal acceleration. One more thing that must be understood is that on a spinning disc, the further away you are from the center of rotation the faster you go.(ie: twice the distance, twice the speed) So the analogy, Coriolis acceleration is the acceleration something feels when its velocity (tangential) changes as result of the change in distance to the center of rotation. (If you're on Merry go round, and it's spinning at a constant speed, if you walk from the edge to the center, you tangential speed changes. The rate of change of that speed is Coriolis acceleration. Hope this helps.
Well Ron, you sure did do a good job explaining the Coriolis effect. Once one understands the earth turning, and what direction, the concept is easier to grasp. I get it that far. Where things get a little hairy though, is the math to compute it's effects at differing latitudes. Hmm...I can see I'll have to wait for more scientists to write into your show! Thanks!
My son bought a 22-250 Tika due to a bit of pressure from the salesman . It was his decision , but I only preferred the ,243 due to ballistics. It's a nice rifle but still wished it was a .243. I'd never buy anything Weatherby at all. I never see any advantage due many close choices in cartridges and quality of rifle options. 😎
AS A BEAR GUIDE I’m so glad you changed the comment on the charging Grizz/Brown bear. Let me tell you a VERY short story. We were in Ak on a 14 day river trip. What a blast! Well we shot a moose and camped 100 to 150 yds away on the other side of meat so we didn’t get eaten at night while we were sleeping from a mean bear or mom with Cubs. Well anyway as we got 20 yds from meat in am we were charged by a 9 ft mega giant boar he wasn’t a starving thin guy he was a giant who was well fed and ate and entire hind quarter that night when we even had bells up. When he decided to charge my client hit the bear in the chest with his 300 Winchester ultra mag, bear never even flinched. I shot my 33-378 Wetherby a couple inches from where he did and the bear kinda looked like it was hit by a baseball that had been thrown at 1,000 mph. That bonded bullet ended up 4 inches from his butt hole! Literally! The bear fell the second The trigger was pulled! The main thing is you must shoot a charging bear with a cannon because one swipe and your potentially dead. The hunter not guide can use whatever he wants, but the guide needs a minimum of a 338 win mag. And you MUST hit bear or charging moose in center ish of chest and or head. Also reload and shoot again asap. Great video Ron
Great story! I think Browning makes the semi-auto BAR in 338 Win Mag. Many years ago my late dad shot a Grizzly that stood up in front of him in the chest and broke his back with his 308 Win lever-action.
@@royjohnson465 a browning 338 semi auto would be great. As long as it stayed clean while hunting to prevent jamming. Ps that’s awesome your dad did that!
Coriolis effect is the effect of the earths rotation on the (in this case) flight of the boolit’s path from east to west as the boolit will be a micro second faster that it is if you shoot west to east. Think of it as if you were shooting a target from a truck moving in the direction of your target. now reverse it by driving away from the target. It also effects the boolit’s path as it travels north and south. and causes a ever so slight effect on the boolit as it travels left to right and right to left if you were shooting from the moving truck. As slight and minute as it is, when shooting 2000 yards or more, the earths rotation effects boolit flight.
Ron, how were you able to shoot a light loaded bullet out of the same gun and scope you use a higher loaded and heavier bullet and be able to hit the same spot ?
I believe they had a Kestrel at one time that helped calculate the Coriolis as long as you pointed the top in the direction of line of fire. I kind of got out of L.D. shooting... hopefully some one else...Can chime in... As Ron says 😉
The company I worked for used to have a Stopping Rifle Clinic teaching people how to handle the recoil of larger bored rifles and to prepare them for dangerous game around the world. A couple years Weatherby would send us rifles and ammunition to use. The .460 is indeed a beast but it seemed mostly because the rifles were lighter than the heavier double rifles we shot. I am very recoil sensitive and am only good for a few shots per day that are flinch free with anything bigger than .375 H&H so one shot with it was enough. The muzzle blast is drastic as well.
I used to spend lots of time at a private range, a membership range, that had no shortage of shooters headed out for dangerous and or large game. I was testing custom built rifles, loads etc. Shooting from the bench is not a pleasant experience after awhile when shooting the magnum .30 caliber and up rifles. The .375 H&H, .458 W. M. the .470 and up Nitro Expresses were tolerable. But those .378 and .460 Weatherby magnums and their accompanying muzzle blasts were nasty. Birds fell to earth and flopped around in a daze if they were overhead when those rifles fired.
I'm 78 and a long time fan of the 6.5 sweede. In all my years of shooting I can't recall ever reading of the 6 5x55 being given the AI treatment. Is there a reason aside from the weaker Mauser 96 and other rifles or was it simply overlooked? Keep up your great videos!!
There are dozens of calibers out there. Pick the one that you have confidence in. Alot of it is in your head. I have been at the range one day and couldn't hit sh.t.The next day I couldn't miss. Shot placement is key no matter what the caliber is.
I own a Sauer 7mm-08 and have a variety of Norma weights up,to 160 grain Tip Strike so rifle from Germany and the ammo made in Sweden. Can’t believe they would restrict only to US markets.
My partner hunting has a 243 and I have 22-250 Browning Abolt, we had hunted many times My 22-250 I use 64gr Win. it kills deer and hog knock down as good as 270/308, I do have 308 and 270 rifles too for big game hunting seasons too, my favorite is 22-250 light/fast.
I have wrote bullet manufacturers to see at what velocity you can get reliable bullet expansion. I was hunting with a 7mm TCU cartridge in a Contender pistol. It figured out to be about 165 yards. I did however smoke a coyote at pretty close to 200.
I concur with your findings on the 243. I've killed whitetail deer with just about everything, but in the last few years I've hunted exclusively with a 243 most killed under 100 yards with various 100-grain PSP most dropped in their tracks with devastating results to the front should I almost always take a high shoulder shot. But if I have to shoot one right behind the shoulder it normally liquefies the lungs and they don't go far.
I always shoot them behind the shoulders in the chest and it always liquefies the lungs and destroys the heart if I hit it. 243 is hard to beat, a lot of black bear have been taken with as well.
@@stephenwest798 oh yeah I shot a big doe this year right behind the shoulder only because there was a tree in the way and I couldn't hit the shoulder where I normally shoot but she only went maybe 30 yards just turned her lungs into jelly
I owned a 460 weatherby. With Weatherby scope. Factory muzzle break. 450 grain bullets. After 3 shots my shoulder and arm went numb. I was scared to shoot 4 shots because didnt want to cause permanent nerve damage. I could shoot 6 times with my 300 weatherby no problem! 460 was moa.
Hi Ron, My attempt to simplify the „Coriolis Effect” explanation - a “Coriolis force” will occur only if the object is changing its radius to the axis of rotation - in our case this is the distance to the Nord-South axis. The direction and magnitude of that force, and whether it should be accounted or consider negligible is a different story.
This is exactly what I was saying about this cartridge vs that cartridge. I have had several 243's and several 22 250's I hunt big game with big bullets, so the 6mm is a varmint cartridge as far as I'm concerned. So I have a use for my 22 250. So In my case a 243 is extra baggage that I don't need. It's all about the performance, and a 243 doesn't make a better varmint cartridge than a 22 250. So it's a personal thing.
.22 WMR: It is the guns! I've purchased several of the North American Arms (NAA) "Palm" Revolvers and love them. Never had a problem with them. Some of the full size handgun manufacturers don't seem to be checking their work for quality and the cartridges can't even be inserted into their chambers! As if their chambers are unfinished or something. Heritage Manufacturers is one of these. They sell a line of .22 LR Revolvers for which they provide an additional cylinder for .22 WWR cartridges. I cannot load these chambers with cartridges without a lot of scraping along the cartridges lengths. Not worth the inexpensive prices these Revolvers are being offered for. Rifles? Never have had a problem with any chambered for .22 WMR. I love the cartridge, but since I can scope a .22 LR into a zero ring at 100 yds. the .22 WMR has little enough work to do in the south eastern pine woods I usually hunt in. Love the little .17 rimfires too..
Thanks for spending so much time explaining the coriolis effect. Please do a whole episode on the price of tea in China next time😅😅😅 Love your podcasts and videos 🫡
My son shot two large whitetails with a .243 handload containing 95 gr. Hornady interlocks. 60 yds for a big doe and 30 yds for a nice buck. The damage was pretty intense. He recovered 2 bullets both perfectly expanded.
Ron, I have used the loading data for cast bullets from cast bullet manuals, primarily Lyman, but others as well for reduced loads for jacketed bullets. That said, you don't want to use the very lightest loads, but go for loads that have something like at least 1200 fps.
In reference to the .243 vs 30-30 comment. This is a very common misconception with fast cartridges/loadings. My personal belief is that a fast bullet up close will shed it petals as it expands instead of holding the mushroom. This causes the energy to dump early in the penetration and the remaining parts of the projectile remains small (near caliber) and the remaining energy is minimal. Combining the small remaining projectile and lack of energy results in a small exit. A bullet built properly for the impact velocity will retain much of its weight allowing the projectile to support a good mushroom and carry the energy deeper in the animal.
I have experimented with light loads with a 7mm Rem Mag. Using 120 to 140 grain bullets with IMR 4350 and IMR 4895. I will practice with 30 to 50 rounds at a range session. About the same recoil as a .308 Winchester.
I am a Weatherby fan and collector but I do not have them all by a long shot. I like Mark V's mainly but some of the new Vanguards shoot pretty good. My favorite so far is the .378 Weatherby for big game it is a hoss.
Centrifugal force has nothing to do with Coriolis effect because gravity cancels it out. But you did have it correct about drift caused by rotation of the Earth.
First off love your work, haven't seen a 7-08 by Merkel, but Sauer S100 Atacama, Cherokee and Ceratehc and Steys Arms SM12 and CLII you can order by the Brand representative in 7-08, the ammo is hard to get if you don't know a gun store owner. Love to see a 7x64 Comparison recoil especially
I would think so, but many sources I reference insist Coriolis effect always drifts bullet to the right in northern hemisphere. Seems to me if you were shooting from north to south they'd drift left, or East. What am I not comprehending?
Ron, Had an idea about long range shooting. Maybe you should talk to a range instructor from Ft. Sill about long range and Coriolis Effect in practical terms. They might be able to explain things where most folks can understand.
Ron, I have shot M2 50 cal. and larger rounds, way over a mile, never saw a thing, no such animal. Direct line of sight, minus your drop and windage. Sorry meant to say we zeroed the 50 and others at one mile, shot a lot further. I have shot the 30-378, at a mile, again nothing but drop and windage. I hate to pop the bubble there, mortars, and ground Art. never needed it. Maybe, one of those German cannons back in WW2 that could put a round in the upper atm. ?? maybe ??? Might ask a old gunner on one of those Naval battleships? 16 -18 inch gun might shoot high enough? maybe, ? Great Show.
155mm you account for the effects in the calculations. Of course shooting high angle with a max ord of 40000 ft has a rather long tof (we were at altitude already for those, as I recall about 8000 ft).
That is good to know, I had heard they had to do the samething with the German big guns, was not sure about Navy BB. guns, that can shoot a car 30 miles . lol
I've shot a lot of whitetails under 50 yards and out to about 200 yards with my 243 using a 100 grain soft point boattail and it destroys what it hits. Many times, the bullet is just under the skin on the opposit rear shoulder area. The bullet mushrooms very well and makes quick, lethal kills. In 25 plus years, it has never let me down.
I have to agree but I use a slightly heavier grain, however using buckshot at around 50 yards I have experienced the shot staying just under the skin on the opposite side, those shells are lethal.
243 im not a show off.
Thats the problem with 243... never get a blood trail.. poor choice.
@@mjuberian my experience with 243 differs from yours. I shot a doe inside 30 yards a couple years ago and was impressed with the blood trail left over the 40ish yards she ran. I shot a wild pig at around 50yds with same load with a quarting away shot and got total pass through and the animal dropped in its tracks. I'm curious as to the experiences you have had with the cartridge as well which loads you have used.
been using & reloading the 243 for 50 years -- always the 80 & 85 gr bullets -- all shots inside 150 yards -- dead deer
Ron, you have one of the most pleasant, dignified, and informed personalities I've seen. Thank you for such a wonderful and educational experience.
Ron, please replay ; on 25cal purse pistol
My biggest fear is that my wife will sell my guns for the price I told her I paid for them!
now that there was funny.
😂🤣😂
My biggest fear is my wife will meet the guy I buy all my guns from before I die and the subject of how much they cost🤔😳😂 it’s a good thing the shoe store and plants store are not next to the gun store🤔😳
Haha right?!? I have to sell one to get one now. Apparently I have “too many”
Where do you live?😂 I’m lucky, my lady doesn’t ask any questions.
Always a good day when Ron has a podcast. Thank you sir for always adding something to my knowledge of hunting and the shooting sport.
Hey Ron, my first and only experience with a 460 Weatherby was at an informal shooting range south of Fairbanks, AK one very cold winter day. While I had experienced 68 below before, that day was a balmy 38 below zero, so I bundled nicely in my artic gear and went shooting; summer was just too far away and -38F was warm enough back in my youth. One of our local doctors showed up as well, with his brand new Weatherby in preparation for a trip to Africa. For some reason he was more than willing to let me shoot it, and not being to bright, I was excited to give it a try. In those days I had not yet learned to lay my thumb along the side of the grip, but instead, tightly gripped most rifles with my thumb over the top of the pistol grip, which I soon learned, could quickly cause ones thumb to ram itself into a very cold (nearly frozen) nose. Man that hurt! Not my shoulder or cheek bone, just my nose, so I graciously thanked him for the opportunity and went back to minding my business with my little 270 Winchester....once my nose quit running and the tears froze. Thanks for the memories.
😂 Was the Dr an shoulder surgeon by chance?
No, but I do think he may have been looking for a sucker to test drive that thing.@@anthonyboatright6960
When comparing the .243 to the .22-250 in my opinion they are both excellent cartridges. When I hunt big game a 24 caliber is the smallest bullet I can legally hunt with so the .22 caliber is a varmint rifle and the .243 is a big game rifle.
They are both good and would put one caliber on the obsolete table were it not for cheap shells in the 223
My state has a 6mm minimum for deer, but you can’t carry a rifle of 6mm or greater in the field if you’ve tagged out and the season is still open. So, if I get a deer, I have to use something smaller to hunt coyotes. An 8 twist 22-250 is an awesome predator rifle, especially with 75gr bullets.
my man!! you know im a .243 fan boy its just too darn versatile. thanks again for another great video
The 243 is good to all ranges within it's reasonable reach. According to the specs and ballistics I would trust it on whitetail size deer out to 400-450 yards if you are accurate enough. For those of us that are mere mortals, keeping under 300 yards is better. As for expansion, I have 2 stories. The first story was from whitetail hunting in Wisconsin in 1997. The last deer I took before heading off to grad school when I couldn't hunt due to time and location issues. I was using 95 grain Remington soft points and hit the buck on the run at about 100-125 yards. Upon field dressing I saw very little damage and no signs of expansion. I had clipped the arteries on the heart so down he went. Second story is from fall 2022 in Michigan. I am now back into hunting after way too long away. I was using the same rifle now with 100 grain Federal power-shok soft points. This time it was a standing shot at 50 yards. Very different result this time. Entrance and exit wounds were obvious and quite large relative to the bullet. The bullet did a lot of damage to the internals. Bullet technology has come a long way since I was a kid in my opinion. In the 90s I recall several people I would hunt with (neighbors, family, friends) complain about everything from 243 to 280 failing to show signs of expansion. Many went to ballistic tips which at the time were relatively new and expensive for the common hunter that only goes after deer once a year. Again, I sense bullet tech has changed a lot since the 90s and I'm finding most rounds in "deer hunting" rifles will expand.
I had a similar experience with the 100 gr core loc in my .243 the first time I used it. I switched to 90 gr Sorroco and never had a problem from 30 yd to 300. This round has taken 15 deer all one shot kills.
@@walterkleban2746 While I'm looking forward to testing some 130 gr Sciroccos in my 6.5 Swede Zastava. Been stocking up on anything good in this caliber since it's not super common in the States. My next rifle will probably be the 6mm ARC. A 90 gr Scirocco in that would be the 🐈's 🐴
I have had nothing but success with Scirocco's both in .243 and 3006. I was able to make a one shot kill on a bull elk using 180 gr Scirocco in the 3006. It turned after being hit and dropped in its tracks. I have been loading 165 gr Scirocco 3006 round because they are more accurate in my rifle.
Alas! My newest excuse for my inaccuracy. The Coriolis Effect. Thanks Ron!
I’m a math professor with a degree in physics. I also dabble in long-range target shooting. The Coriolis is a consequence of a rotating frame of reference just like the centripetal effect is. The rotation in question is the earth. Nevertheless, the parameters used are vectors. This makes the computations highly non-elementary. Honestly, for most rifle shooting, wind is a bigger problem.
As a physics professor, I approve this message.
As a student of both, I concur. I don’t shoot critters long range anyway.
I’ve always had people imagine shooting a target while sitting on a large record player. But, nobody under 40 remembers those
And as a hunter who shoots at average ranges it doesn't matter to me.
I am a neuroscientist. I have two doctorates, and just wanted to say that I’m smarter than you ;-)
Mr. Spomer,
Cannot Thank YOU enough for your great presentations.
I've learned more from them than I can remember!
So I have shot a .460 Weatherby mag in Alaska that a friend had and I wasn't knocked off my feet but it's not something I'd want to do any quick follow up shots with!
The shot was into a 55 gallon drum that was used as a burn barrel in his backyard and there was a half a wheel barrel, at least, of wet ashes that exploded out the top.
Yes I had a bit of a sore shoulder.
Don't know what the bullet weight was.
I'll stick with my 30.06,,,,
Please keep up the great work!!
😎👍🦌
I shot a lot of.22 WMR. My go to for coyotes, fox, and raccoon. Many improvements with the cartridge and rifles since I bought my first one in 1980.
You want to look into getting one of those CZ512...22win mag..awesome gun for the money..If you can find one..
Hi..bud..I don't know what 22wm.shells you use.But I've got a CZ512 in 22WM. & I find the ICC game points work really good on coyotes..I just thought I'd bring up to you..
@@jeff0nyschuk670 That is my go to round also. Seems everyone else has the same idea as it’s been hard to find often.
Funny your viewer suggested writing down the disposition of all your guns in case something happens to you; I just did that about 3 weeks ago at my wife’s suggestion. I have a lot of guns and she’s not a gun fan so she has no clue what they are or what to do with them if something happens to me. So I listed them all by description and serial number, any history I knew of them, who they were to go to on my passing, and anything else I thought was worth mentioning. It gives us both peace of mind just in case something does happen. Good advice from that viewer and thank you Ron for passing that info along, it’s definitely something to think about. Love your channel, keep doing what you’re doing and God bless. 👍
Agreed; also placed a copy in our Will with instructions.
Smart
Good video. I have both. I brought them in the 70s. Both are great. In recent years the 250 has become expensive to fire.
If you want to have a fair comparison between the 22-250 vs the 243. Try the 50 grain bullet in 22 cal. Then try the 58 grain v-max in the 243. The 243 will outperform the 22-350 in every category. Both are great varmint cartridges but the 58 grain v-max in hand loads is faster and flatter at distance. The 243 win is one of the most versatile cartridges out there. But once again accuracy is still the most important recipe for a clean kill.
I run a custom 22-250AI i chambered. Amazing round right between the standard 22-250n and .243. Less recoil than a 243 and no doughnutting in my brass. If you jump up to a 243AI thats another animal and absolutely for me is the best
@@eduffy4937I’ve shot both over the years. The 22-250 AI with a slow twist barrel 1/8-1/9 and 80 gr bullets are my favorite combination ! Many ground hogs, prairie dogs out to 1000 yds. Best shot 1245 yd prairie dog ! And many deer out to 600yds.
Instead of comparing the .22-250 Rem. directly to the .243 Win.
Let's take a look at the. 250-3000 Savage when compared to the .243 Win., both with 87 grain bullets.
Why the .250-3000 ?
The .250-3000 Savage IS the parent case to the .22-250 Rem.
It was the very first rifle cartridge to exceed 3,000 fps, designed around a .25 caliber, 87 grain bullet.
Both were designed primarily as deer cartridges, with the .243 claiming dual purpose roles with lighter bullets, while there were heavier 117 grain bullets available in .257 diameter bullets.
The .22-250 was intended for lighter weight varmint bullets at greater distances for smaller critters.
Many years ago a good friend bought a Weatherby 460 rifle, he said he got a great deal as it was only fired once. His proof was it came with a box of cartridges and only one was missing. Next time I saw him he asked if I wanted a good deal on a 460 Weatherby, only fired twice!!
Fun anecdote!
I have a 300 RUM. With the same story...bought it used...had it 15yrs. Less than two boxes fired...
I had a 460 weatherby. Shot it 3 times. I was afraid of permanently damaging the nerve in my shoulder.i could shoot my 300 weatherby vanguard 6 times before my back would hurt. Sold both of them. 280 Remington for the win chuck
7mm-08 is used quite a bit in the UK and ammo is available. Mainland Europe the 7x64 is pretty much the main 7mm cartridge as its not military like 7x57, and has a good fast twist rate to handle heavier bullets for use on boar - which are now the main game animal across much of Europe.
And now that places like France no longer ban military calibres, the 308 is pretty much the go to calibre for the vast majority of European hunting, although 30-06 is also very popular. In UK we have a few boar but not many. 243 Win is probably 25% of the market, 270 and 308 make up a good chunk of the rest with the 6.5, 7mm and others all making up the rest.
Interesting video as usual. As a French viewer of your channel and a passionate hunter and shooter : I don't know for the rest of Europe (Federico seems Italian) but for sure we can find ammo and rifles chambered in 7mm08 in France ! It isn't the most widepsread caliber but it's easy to lay hand on ammo and rifle in any gunstore out here ! By the way, my go-to hunting rifle is a 243 : varmint, foxes, boars and roe deers !
Wow! As a wounded game tracker, I couldn’t agree more with your and P.O. Ackley’s statements. Almost all of the deer I attempt to recover with my tracking dogs are a result of poor bullet placement. As I’ve commented before on your recommendation against head and neck shots, a few inches can make a huge difference in the outcome, regardless of caliber. Those shots have way too small margin of error, and leave wounds that lead to a slow miserable death to ever consider ethical. I do see a lot of smaller calibers due to predominantly being used by youth hunters, which generally still falls on poor placement. Regardless of caliber however, if it’s through the vitals it is efficient and effective. I enjoy turning a bad situation into a joyous occasion. On average I take more deer with a knife per year than most hunters will shoot in a lifetime. I’ve had experience with most every imaginable situation involving recovering a wounded deer possible during the past 40 years, and witnessed the effects of all caliber/wound combinations, baying/dispatching, hidden under banks/holes, drown and sunken, on and on, it’s been a true blessing to share all those experiences with hunters.
So it has to be a really good shot to put the deer right down?
Proper aim or more accurately not aiming properly is likely the leading cause of your services being needed.
I I started out bow hunting almost fifty years ago with a old recurve bow. 15 yards was pretty much the limit with that hand me down bow. It was drilled into my head by the guy who gave it to me to take my time and be certain of the shot or don't take it. I still bow hunt more than rifle hunt because I enjoy the stealth aspect of getting close to within about thirty yards which is my personal hunting limit distance even though my modern bow is dead accurate out to the sixty yards I have room to practice in the yard. I aim small and miss small.
That same mindset carries over into rifle hunting, I'll take my time and pass if I'm not absolutely sure I can make it a one shot kill and drop the animals within a few yards. I normally use my ar loaded with either federal fusions or usually hand loaded speer gold dot 62g bonded soft points. Both are great rounds if you hit lungs or heart and I try to cause damage to both. I passed a shot at a really great 10 point buck, big body for a central Texas buck because I just couldn't get the shot I trusted. My neighbors son got him the next day, he still gives me a hard time about that lol.
I don't want to call a tracker because I screwed up or because that deer moved a few inches in the time it took me to pull the trigger as happened to me a couple years ago with a twenty yard bow shot, thankfully she turned towards me almost in place in that same split second and I still got her but it was close. I see people on the local bow hunting group page every year who have to call out someone with a dog because they lost the blood trail after a couple hundred yards, that's purely a bad shot or shooting too far out and not allowing room for the deer to move which they can drop to jumping position in I think .14 seconds when the arrow is within about ten feet of them. I might be ocd about it and over limiting myself but I can live with that, a lost wounded animal suffering I can't as easily.
Documenting the history is a very good idea, especially the family heirlooms.
.22-250 set up with a twist fast enough to throw 75gr pills makes it a lot more versatile. Most of them are set up with barrels that max out with 55gr being spun stable, which in my book make them limited to varmints.
The 243 loaded with a good partition or bonded 100gr bullet makes a wonderful little rifle for thin skinned game and small hogs.
Yeah, it difficult to find a fast twist 22-250 but they are out there. After having shoulder surgery I'm in the market for a 22-250 for my new whitetail slayer
Ron, I very much enjoy your videos and especially your break down into chapters individual subjects discussed in the podcast/video thank you for your informative view on such a wide range of shooting subjects!
In regards to the 30-30 vs. .243..
I shot my first mule deer with a winchester. 243 with 100 gr. at 40 yards. It was a 2x3, not the biggest deer, probably 175-200 lbs. It dropped where it was shot, didn't twitch or flail, and was dead before I could walk said 40 yards. Shot placement is what truly matters more so than caliber and projectile shape or velocity. As long as your using a sufficient load, within that loads range (per kinetic energy or velocity), and most importantly your TRUE abilities and confidence.
I really think the Coriolis effect is more of a concern in battleship gunnery where the range might be 20+ miles or so.
I have fired the 460 Wetherby a number of times. This one has a ported barrel (built in brake). It’s recoil, despite the brake, is something to respect for sure. The muzzle blast is even more significant. Blows light items off the shooting bench etc. Lovey caliber you don’t get excited about shooting multiple times in a short period of time. 😅
Shot a 22.250 once while in a arm sling recently picked one up ruger m- 77 1977 looking forward to sighting it in in November i live in az so that's when weather permits love your work ron keep it up brother
the 8mm phased plasma rifle in the 60 watt range will top them all.
Ron, great series of questions and answers.
With regards to Weatherby, I am missing 3 of the original Weatherby Magnums which are (224, 416, & 460). However, I worked for Bill Wiseman for years maki g rifle barrels. I have shot all of them and many other standard and wildcat cartridges. A rifle with the appropriate weight for the cartridge, balance and ergonomic fit stock will be more manageable. When looking a felt recoil, there are two different effects going on. 1. Pure recoil measured in Ft Lbs. The other is Speed at which it comes at you. My 378 is a 26” barrel with no brake. It is a fast recoil, but manageable off the sticks or standing. The bench is a different story. The 460 is brutal. Highly recommend a brake and recoil reducer. My suggestion is get a 404 JEFFERY, 416 Rigby, 416 Remington, or 458 Winchester Magnum. World of difference between recoil. I do agree with the comment on the 340 Weatherby Magnum. In a proper weighted rifle it is an outstanding cartridge.
Spot on with chose the right bullet and put it in the right place. My grandson shot his 1st deer with a 22-250 with 60 grain Nosler Partition Bullets. The same day my son shot a deer with a 257 Weatherby Magnum. When we were processing the deer he could not believe the terminal damage and size of wound channel, and size of exit hole from the 22-250. You could almost stick fist thru him. Both deer were taken with broadside heart shots.
If I’m not mistaken, Phill’s guide rifle was/is a 30-06. He also stopped a charging bear with a 9mm a few years back.
The last 5 deer 🦌 I’ve shot have been taken with a .22-250 with a 50 grain bullet…. I take this rifle with me because my young daughter hunts with me and It’s her rifle and I chose this round for multiple reasons snd recoil being a real concern…. Maybe this season she will finally take a deer with the ole Model 77 Ruger…. I have been looking to get her a Mark V Weatherby Varmintmaster in .22-250 as well… I really enjoy your channel Ron…. Keep on doing what your doing….. God Bless
For the 30-30, don't forget about that ballistic tip from Hornady. Out to 200 or 250, which is further than I usually shoot, it does a great job and I prefer to hunt with it more than my bolts.
Thank you Ron I really enjoyed your episode today. Lotta good stuff.
7mm is a great caliber for hand loaders. There's such a massive range of weight grain and designs you can do just about anything within that one caliber.
Many years ago when I had recently graduated with an BS degree in Engineering Physics, I found myself in an Artillery Fire Direction training class (after which I served in VietNam practicing this art), and when we got to a form where we enter the direction of fire and extract a correction which is direction dependent, I raised a comment that this was a correction for the coriolis effect, which it was and in this instance the reason for the effect is that our entire frame of reference including both our field piece and the target are located on the surface of the earth which is rotating like a spinning basketball. The classic physics problem to evaluate is a train postulated to be travelling a certain direction at a certain speed and knowing the mass of the train we can calculate the lateral force it exerts on the track. If not constrained the train will appear to travel along a curve rather than a straight line because the earth is rotating beneath us. It does not depend on air drag, it is simple physics. Our instructor was not interested in this, his point of view was that this was just how we were supposed to calculate our firing solution. I quickly realized that most people do not need to know this much.
Great advice about keeping firearms documented. Ihave most of mine done and need to add a couple. I believe P. O. Ackley and Vernon Speer were lifelong buddies. I think they were born a month apart and died a month apart but I would have to look the year up again. I know the firearm and ammo industry lost 2 of the best.
243 for the win 🏆
I hate that round so many better options
@Boomstick McNugget did I hurt your lil feelings with that comment
@Boomstick McNugget dont get in your feeling snowflake thats for female's but you must be one cuz you cant handle more the a 243
@UCvznNKY4refK06WGvyTjb2Q 🤣 rather than acting like triggered snowflake. Why not just say why you hate it. 🤣
@@joshp8395 now we got another 243 fanboy and our comments real original copying my snowflake comment good to know you cant think for yourself
Ron you are a super 👌 guy... I enjoy your videos 📹 You keep up with modern ballistics very well 👍 for an older fella... I read 90% of it too. But I tend to go back to what I know being afield. Placement is key 🔑 I like that you mention it regularly. Old School rounds like 3030 and 45/70 are superb under 200 yards for 90% of game 🎮 👌... of course the latter carries more energy. Just saying you need to mention a little more old school 🏫 thinking for the old school rounds 3030 being a decent brush caliber, can't be forgotten 👍😎 Carry on
G'day from the sticks of Aus, you're a man after my own heart, I've put my shoulder out & you're soothing my pain, I've passed my knowledge to those that are interested, I can have an ear, thought & yarn until the cow's come home & a warming snort 'round the cam'fire, enjoy the vids, Aussie Vet Vik
🍻👍😊😂
Thanks Vik!
👊
Ron, great point regarding the 22-250 v. 243. I had been in the market for a deer rifle for the last 2 season, but wasn't sure what I wanted. I borrowed a buddies 30-30 and killed 3 deer with it. Dropped all 3 - no tracking. 100 yd shots. So I ask my buddy if I can buy the gun. He politely declines, understandable, but that really upset my wife. She said 'that gun is magic, you don't miss, you drop deer in their tracks". She really was upset that he wouldn't sell it. I had to remind her that David killed Goliath with a slingshot and rock. As in retail, "Location, Location, Location".
The right bullet in the right place is the most important thing in clean efficient kills! My banker asked me in the 80s why I’m using a 270 WBY for hunting elk. My answer was I’m a firm believer that it really doesn’t matter the caliber as much as using a heavy constructed bullet and put it in the right place. I made a huge mistake selling that rifle it wasn’t brutal to shoot and was accurate and deadly. Then they came out with this bullet called the Barnes X bullet and I believe that rifle with the140 X bullets would handle business with any of North American game including Brown bears. But bears would have me carrying a bear rifle when I know they are around and or on the menu. Great video Ron.
Ron, a few years back I purchased a CZ 455 in a 22 WMR. The ammo that shoots the best is CCI 22 FMJ. The Norma also shoots very well. In addition to brass issues, I suspect the bullet points may be the issue. All ammo with shoot under 1/2” MOA for 10 shot group. This is a bull barrel rifle with a 4-16X target Scope.
However, the CZ 455 in a 22 LR will group into the 1/10 and 0’s it favors Federal Gold Medal over Norma and Eley Match.
Sorry about the equations in the earlier video. Couldn't help myself. Anywhooo ... your latest statement is on point. Centrifugal and Coriolis 'forces' are not real in that you can't point to a force which causes the effect. That is why it is better to call them an "effect" and not a "force". Definitions aside, they are real effects and stem from the fact we live in a rotating coordinate system. Once the bullet leaves the barrel of the firearm the bullet is no longer in the rotating coordinate system but rather in its own non-rotating system. The two systems are 'accelerating' relative to each other. The centrifugal effect is a correction to the radially downward force of gravity resulting in a small decrease in the effective gravitational pull. The Coriolis effect is a small horizontal deflection of a free projectile. To give some scope of the deflection, in the 1914 sea battle of the Falkand Islands, there is tall tale going around about British naval gun sights being set up for battle in the northern hemisphere were the deflection is to the right while in the southern hemisphere the deflection is to the left. Turns out 1914 naval gun control ignored the Coriolis effect as far as the historians can determine. I ran some numbers years back and the deflection is on the order of 300 yards to the left for a projectile fired at 2600 ft/s at 37 degrees above the horizontal assuming no air drag. I've seen reports on the ranges being 15,000 to 16,500 yards. Yikes. Turns out that the Coriolis effect is too small to be considered in naval gunfire of 1914 given all the other other possible issues: knowing range to target, wind at various altitudes, air density, temperature, movement of ships at sea, etc. The failure of the British at Falkands and later at Jutland in WW1 lay squarely on the shoulders of the British naval brass. .
My first experience of a 22-250 was a man was harvesting a big steer about 750-800 lbs.that he raised for beef...man stood about 30 ft. away from the steer and as the steer turned to look straight at the rifle the guy shot straight between the eyes and the steer dropped immediately straight down without a single flinch... granted it was at very close range but you have to consider the bullet was a tiny 22 cal...
Most guys butcher with a .22 long rifle. A .22-250 is more than enough.
We use a 22lr to do that, been doing so for decades.
I have shot thousands of full grown beef with a 22 long rifle. They drop immediately
@Lesley Boeder One day (this is a true story), a friend asked me to help him butcher 4 pigs and to bring my 44. Four shots into the brain cage, four slit throats, all went well till the last pig. He got up and started walking around. 👻 I was asked to shoot the pig again. So I aimed, hesitated, and hesitated some more, finally setting the gun down and asking, "Where do you shoot a dead pig to kill it?" Neither one of us could come up with an answer.
I'll bet you have a few ghost steer tales, too. 😉
In my younger days, while working in a slaughterhouse, a full grown bull got loose and I witnessed my co-worker drop him as he charged. It seemed like an eternity while he waited for a close in shot between the eyes with the 22LR. The bull dropped and slid on the floor, his head coming to rest at the guy's feet. Amazing shot placement and trust in his ability. Of course, he also had his own custom kill business during his off hours, always 22LR because it does less damage to the carcass. Shot placement is king.
Most of the time Ron I shoot around 1 to 150 years here in the southeast were in wooded and heavy bust country @ times it's even closer like 50yards I've even shot under that, but there in the southern part of the state I can stretch it out a bit and get some long shots in but only when I find some land & the owner lets me shoot on it I can target pratice a 1k shots
My buddy has a 460, and I've shot it several times. The recoil is heavy and brisk as anyone would imagine, but it's not horrible to shoot. His Weatherby is also scoped and has never nipped either one of us. I own a CZ Safari in 458, and although there is a noticeable difference in felt recoil, it's not as great as one would think !!!
Ron for President
The fastest practical, usable cartridge I ever heard of was a WEATHERBY wildcat. It was a 22-240 WEATHERBY mag. Barrel life was not the longest, but it was pushing 5000 + fps
Ron i personally think the 243 it can shoot a 55 grain bullet all the way to a 100 grain bullet at some really fast speed.thanks great show .its appreciated
Concerning your question about the .460 Weatherby magnum, I have a friend in Germany who purchased one many years ago. He fired it once. And sold it.
Love these podcasts, thanks.
Got my first fallow yesterday with the 243. Boo yer🎉
Good advice again Ron...
Hello Ron, here is a simple analogy of Coriolis. But first we need to define two types of acceleration. On something spinning you have centripetal acceleration (ie turning left and feeling like you being pulled right) the second is the tangential acceleration (ie: normal acceleration if you were going in a straight line) which happens when some spins up(rpm increase) or slows down(rpm decrease). Basically leaning forward or back ward like on a city bus. Now on something spinning you can get both at the same time. If something is spinning up or slowing down (like a merry go round speeding up). If it's steady rpm you only get centripetal acceleration. One more thing that must be understood is that on a spinning disc, the further away you are from the center of rotation the faster you go.(ie: twice the distance, twice the speed) So the analogy, Coriolis acceleration is the acceleration something feels when its velocity (tangential) changes as result of the change in distance to the center of rotation. (If you're on Merry go round, and it's spinning at a constant speed, if you walk from the edge to the center, you tangential speed changes. The rate of change of that speed is Coriolis acceleration. Hope this helps.
Explaining things ain't your thing
Can you draw me a picture of what you stated?
Great video. Really enjoy your videos. Thank you.
I think some of those reduced loads they recommend using some kind of batting between the powder and the bullet To keep the powder against the primer.
Well Ron, you sure did do a good job explaining the Coriolis effect. Once one understands the earth turning, and what direction, the concept is easier to grasp. I get it that far. Where things get a little hairy though, is the math to compute it's effects at differing latitudes. Hmm...I can see I'll have to wait for more scientists to write into your show! Thanks!
My son bought a 22-250 Tika due to a bit of pressure from the salesman . It was his decision , but I only preferred the ,243 due to ballistics. It's a nice rifle but still wished it was a .243. I'd never buy anything Weatherby at all. I never see any advantage due many close choices in cartridges and quality of rifle options. 😎
AS A BEAR GUIDE I’m so glad you changed the comment on the charging Grizz/Brown bear. Let me tell you a VERY short story. We were in Ak on a 14 day river trip. What a blast! Well we shot a moose and camped 100 to 150 yds away on the other side of meat so we didn’t get eaten at night while we were sleeping from a mean bear or mom with Cubs. Well anyway as we got 20 yds from meat in am we were charged by a 9 ft mega giant boar he wasn’t a starving thin guy he was a giant who was well fed and ate and entire hind quarter that night when we even had bells up. When he decided to charge my client hit the bear in the chest with his 300 Winchester ultra mag, bear never even flinched. I shot my 33-378 Wetherby a couple inches from where he did and the bear kinda looked like it was hit by a baseball that had been thrown at 1,000 mph. That bonded bullet ended up 4 inches from his butt hole! Literally! The bear fell the second The trigger was pulled! The main thing is you must shoot a charging bear with a cannon because one swipe and your potentially dead. The hunter not guide can use whatever he wants, but the guide needs a minimum of a 338 win mag. And you MUST hit bear or charging moose in center ish of chest and or head. Also reload and shoot again asap. Great video Ron
Great story! I think Browning makes the semi-auto BAR in 338 Win Mag. Many years ago my late dad shot a Grizzly that stood up in front of him in the chest and broke his back with his 308 Win lever-action.
Better just bring a .50bmg, now that's stopping power
@@royjohnson465 a browning 338 semi auto would be great. As long as it stayed clean while hunting to prevent jamming. Ps that’s awesome your dad did that!
@@bryanbressem5026 a 50 BMG would be great. But a 33 338 or 378 whatever it is worked like a truck.
Bullet choice is king in all calibers. Match the bullet with intended use and it will be effective.
Coriolis effect is the effect of the earths rotation on the (in this case) flight of the boolit’s path from east to west as the boolit will be a micro second faster that it is if you shoot west to east. Think of it as if you were shooting a target from a truck moving in the direction of your target. now reverse it by driving away from the target. It also effects the boolit’s path as it travels north and south. and causes a ever so slight effect on the boolit as it travels left to right and right to left if you were shooting from the moving truck. As slight and minute as it is, when shooting 2000 yards or more, the earths rotation effects boolit flight.
Ron, how were you able to shoot a light loaded bullet out of the same gun and scope you use a higher loaded and heavier bullet and be able to hit the same spot ?
the last buck i shot was with a 243 40 yards winchester 100 grain . Dropped the buck in wisconsin
I believe they had a Kestrel at one time that helped calculate the Coriolis as long as you pointed the top in the direction of line of fire. I kind of got out of L.D. shooting... hopefully some one else...Can chime in... As Ron says 😉
The company I worked for used to have a Stopping Rifle Clinic teaching people how to handle the recoil of larger bored rifles and to prepare them for dangerous game around the world. A couple years Weatherby would send us rifles and ammunition to use. The .460 is indeed a beast but it seemed mostly because the rifles were lighter than the heavier double rifles we shot. I am very recoil sensitive and am only good for a few shots per day that are flinch free with anything bigger than .375 H&H so one shot with it was enough. The muzzle blast is drastic as well.
I used to spend lots of time at a private range, a membership range, that had no shortage of shooters headed out for dangerous and or large game. I was testing custom built rifles, loads etc. Shooting from the bench is not a pleasant experience after awhile when shooting the magnum .30 caliber and up rifles. The .375 H&H, .458 W. M. the .470 and up Nitro Expresses were tolerable. But those .378 and .460 Weatherby magnums and their accompanying muzzle blasts were nasty. Birds fell to earth and flopped around in a daze if they were overhead when those rifles fired.
I'm 78 and a long time fan of the 6.5 sweede. In all my years of shooting I can't recall ever reading of the 6 5x55 being given the AI treatment. Is there a reason aside from the weaker Mauser 96 and other rifles or was it simply overlooked? Keep up your great videos!!
There are dozens of calibers out there. Pick the one that you have confidence in. Alot of it is in your head. I have been at the range one day and couldn't hit sh.t.The next day I couldn't miss. Shot placement is key no matter what the caliber is.
I own a Sauer 7mm-08 and have a variety of Norma weights up,to 160 grain Tip Strike so rifle from Germany and the ammo made in Sweden. Can’t believe they would restrict only to US markets.
My partner hunting has a 243 and I have 22-250 Browning Abolt, we had hunted many times My 22-250 I use 64gr Win. it kills deer and hog knock down as good as 270/308, I do have 308 and 270 rifles too for big game hunting seasons too, my favorite is 22-250 light/fast.
That's a very nice urn on your desk .
I have wrote bullet manufacturers to see at what velocity you can get reliable bullet expansion. I was hunting with a 7mm TCU cartridge in a Contender pistol. It figured out to be about 165 yards. I did however smoke a coyote at pretty close to 200.
Tikka makes the T3X lite in a 7mm-08. I figured they would be common in Europe
I have to count for it, because I shoot extremely long range my riffel is a Savage 338LM in a MDT LSS chasse
I concur with your findings on the 243.
I've killed whitetail deer with just about everything, but in the last few years I've hunted exclusively with a 243 most killed under 100 yards with various 100-grain PSP most dropped in their tracks with devastating results to the front should I almost always take a high shoulder shot.
But if I have to shoot one right behind the shoulder it normally liquefies the lungs and they don't go far.
I always shoot them behind the shoulders in the chest and it always liquefies the lungs and destroys the heart if I hit it. 243 is hard to beat, a lot of black bear have been taken with as well.
@@stephenwest798 oh yeah I shot a big doe this year right behind the shoulder only because there was a tree in the way and I couldn't hit the shoulder where I normally shoot but she only went maybe 30 yards just turned her lungs into jelly
Speaking of recoil. I shot a 50 BMG the other day at the range and it makes quite a shock wave . 670 grain bullet pushed by 250 grains of powder .
I owned a 460 weatherby. With Weatherby scope. Factory muzzle break. 450 grain bullets. After 3 shots my shoulder and arm went numb. I was scared to shoot 4 shots because didnt want to cause permanent nerve damage. I could shoot 6 times with my 300 weatherby no problem! 460 was moa.
Hi Ron,
My attempt to simplify the „Coriolis Effect” explanation - a “Coriolis force” will occur only if the object is changing its radius to the axis of rotation - in our case this is the distance to the Nord-South axis.
The direction and magnitude of that force, and whether it should be accounted or consider negligible is a different story.
This is exactly what I was saying about this cartridge vs that cartridge. I have had several 243's and several 22 250's I hunt big game with big bullets, so the 6mm is a varmint cartridge as far as I'm concerned.
So I have a use for my 22 250. So In my case a 243 is extra baggage that I don't need. It's all about the performance, and a 243 doesn't make a better varmint cartridge than a 22 250. So it's a personal thing.
.22 WMR: It is the guns! I've purchased several of the North American Arms (NAA) "Palm" Revolvers and love them. Never had a problem with them. Some of the full size handgun manufacturers don't seem to be checking their work for quality and the cartridges can't even be inserted into their chambers! As if their chambers are unfinished or something. Heritage Manufacturers is one of these. They sell a line of .22 LR Revolvers for which they provide an additional cylinder for .22 WWR cartridges. I cannot load these chambers with cartridges without a lot of scraping along the cartridges lengths. Not worth the inexpensive prices these Revolvers are being offered for.
Rifles? Never have had a problem with any chambered for .22 WMR.
I love the cartridge, but since I can scope a .22 LR into a zero ring at 100 yds. the .22 WMR has little enough work to do in the south eastern pine woods I usually hunt in.
Love the little .17 rimfires too..
Thanks for spending so much time explaining the coriolis effect. Please do a whole episode on the price of tea in China next time😅😅😅
Love your podcasts and videos 🫡
I love them both
My son shot two large whitetails with a .243 handload containing 95 gr. Hornady interlocks. 60 yds for a big doe and 30 yds for a nice buck. The damage was pretty intense. He recovered 2 bullets both perfectly expanded.
Ron, I have used the loading data for cast bullets from cast bullet manuals, primarily Lyman, but others as well for reduced loads for jacketed bullets. That said, you don't want to use the very lightest loads, but go for loads that have something like at least 1200 fps.
In reference to the .243 vs 30-30 comment. This is a very common misconception with fast cartridges/loadings. My personal belief is that a fast bullet up close will shed it petals as it expands instead of holding the mushroom. This causes the energy to dump early in the penetration and the remaining parts of the projectile remains small (near caliber) and the remaining energy is minimal. Combining the small remaining projectile and lack of energy results in a small exit. A bullet built properly for the impact velocity will retain much of its weight allowing the projectile to support a good mushroom and carry the energy deeper in the animal.
I have experimented with light loads with a 7mm Rem Mag. Using 120 to 140 grain bullets with IMR 4350 and IMR 4895. I will practice with 30 to 50 rounds at a range session. About the same recoil as a .308 Winchester.
.243
Have had many rifles, in many calibers
.243 for deer
.308 for elk
Do you know who would make the 243 and a round nose bullet and 105 green
I have a question for you have you hunted elk with 270 win 150 grain thanks for sharing
Yes. And with 130-gr. as well. Both worked.
The vertical deviation is due to the Eötvös effect, which is due to the centrifugal force,
I love my 22 x250 for coyote hunting.
Another note is the Light loads are also good for heavy cast bullets
I am a Weatherby fan and collector but I do not have them all by a long shot. I like Mark V's mainly but some of the new Vanguards shoot pretty good. My favorite so far is the .378 Weatherby for big game it is a hoss.
For long range shooting in North America coriolis effect can be over come with a left hand twist.
Centrifugal force has nothing to do with Coriolis effect because gravity cancels it out. But you did have it correct about drift caused by rotation of the Earth.
First off love your work, haven't seen a 7-08 by Merkel, but Sauer S100 Atacama, Cherokee and Ceratehc and Steys Arms SM12 and CLII you can order by the Brand representative in 7-08, the ammo is hard to get if you don't know a gun store owner.
Love to see a 7x64 Comparison recoil especially
Good information.
The Coriolis effect also differs from the cardinal direction you are facing when you take a shot
I would think so, but many sources I reference insist Coriolis effect always drifts bullet to the right in northern hemisphere. Seems to me if you were shooting from north to south they'd drift left, or East. What am I not comprehending?
Ron, Had an idea about long range shooting. Maybe you should talk to a range instructor from Ft. Sill about long range and Coriolis Effect in practical terms. They might be able to explain things where most folks can understand.
7 08 will become very popular in the UK soon with copper bullets becoming the feature and and awsome calibre and choice it is
Ron, I have shot M2 50 cal. and larger rounds, way over a mile, never saw a thing, no such animal. Direct line of sight, minus your drop and windage. Sorry meant to say we zeroed the 50 and others at one mile, shot a lot further. I have shot the 30-378, at a mile, again nothing but drop and windage. I hate to pop the bubble there, mortars, and ground Art. never needed it. Maybe, one of those German cannons back in WW2 that could put a round in the upper atm. ?? maybe ??? Might ask a old gunner on one of those Naval battleships? 16 -18 inch gun might shoot high enough? maybe, ? Great Show.
155mm you account for the effects in the calculations.
Of course shooting high angle with a max ord of 40000 ft has a rather long tof (we were at altitude already for those, as I recall about 8000 ft).
That is good to know, I had heard they had to do the samething with the German big guns, was not sure about Navy BB. guns, that can shoot a car 30 miles . lol
Tikka is finish and is madden 7mm-08. I have one in left hand