the way he plays is pretty genius, he uses the star rain ability to make it where he cant be approached. and then follows it up with differrent ranged atttacks that have varying timings to intentionally fuck up their dodge timings.
Meh, it's the ash of war on the dagger that's doing most damage and its not supposed to work like that. When I see a mage do this I run because my stamina bar is bigger and I'm not getting cheesed by someone who thinks they are good. They can run out of mana but I can't run out of stamina.
A duel between two mages is an anime showdon. A duel between a mage and a meele player is one's desperate struggle to survival. A duel between two meele is a competition of who runs out of stanima first. Honestly, when they say that mages got the op stuff in this game, looking back to Soulsborne and all the miracle builds, Espoc, rollspam, I say good for them, they deserved that.
@@fashionsuckman4652 Like there isn't 181616 vids on this very channel of dudes with bloodhound step walking right in a spell. Anything that doesn't have quickstep and the likes are in danger even fast weapons, saying it's not good because of a single counter simply ain't accurate either.
I'm gonna have to admit, I'm like 50 hours in, and I only beat Margit a few hours prior. It's like I spent so much time just wandering and exploring, and for some reason I didn't feel like going to Stormveil Castle yet, so don't feel bad about that. (Though I didn't overlevel that much when I faced Margit. I was only lvl 35 with a +3 weapon).
Yeah what a game if you can enjoy 50 hours without even progressing the story. Good shit! I’m lvl 26 with +2 weapon. I got that 2 hander hammer from the boss with the lantern chain in one of the tombs, just not used to playing without a shield so gonna try that out for a bit first before Margit. I’ve tried him a few times and got him to 50% so should get there soon. I ended up there level 9 too , big mistake.
@@warkiller question. Did you walk across the map because I'm about 65 hours in and I've killed three shard bearers, multiple bosses, explored the entire map except nokron city and whatever is after it and found a bunch of optional stuff
@@MoonlitPhoenix0 Nah, I used the horse plenty of times. I just tried to do a thorough exploration of the regions I've been in. So far I explored pretty much all Limgrave, Weeping Peninsula as well as stumbling a bit into Caelid(and deciding it's probably best I come back later after I snatched some things), stumbled into Liurnia(totally possible without doing Stormveil Castle), explored a bit of Siofra(again, decided it might be best if I come back later). I've also spent some time doing some jolly cooperation from time to time. So overall, I've just been taking my time and appreciating the game's large amount of content.
I need that greatbow spell on my mage to practice free aiming. in all the previous souls game I was a free aim god with sorceries in pvp (miracles too) In dark soul 3 I could regularly get great soul arrow and lightning arrow to hit unlocked.
@@kickrobotsintheballs5840 I don't know if LM can be free aimed. Thats why I'm saying I want it 99% of people who play a mage stay locked on no matter what in combat but that makes spells easy to predict and dodge. I want the spell to see if it's possible to predict the path of a moving target and try to see how many of the projectiles I can get to land. Sometimes it's as simple as shooting an attack that fans out in a short distance infront of you into the ground to ensure they collide with your opponent. It would be just nice to know that I have the option
@@timothycain8639 I think it drops from the actual boss at the Haligtree or whatever the area is called, you fight the apparition copy of her in Liurnia of the lakes, the tree is pretty end game area i'd say so be on your toes there. I'm not sure it will work out tho, since homing spells must be used with lock on or else they will just fluke or fly anywhere but where you want them to. But you do you, maybe i'm wrong.
@@kickrobotsintheballs5840 I think it's possible to free aim a lot of homing spells, since they typically fly out then curve in the direction of your camera, obviously it won't track your intended target though.
dont let your class choice keep you from playing different builds, once you get high enough level you can try it all. im running a mage build on my samurai.
Really don't like the "respectful" duel where you don't heal. The mage has 10 fp potions and can burn them all no problem. The melee has 10 hp potions but is frowned upon for using them. When first he has to dodge for a few minutes. Then finally gets close to meet an almost equally powered melee combatant using an INT scaled weapon.
I don't think it would matter if you used all flasks, infact likely fairer, the spell casters would have to really make a decision before dueling as to whether to bring 5hp 5fp for example vs 9fp and 1hp and so to the melee using ash of war? Love your videos though, great player! Keep up the good work. An argument by some maybe that the duel will last forever, its my experience so far that the duels usually last a very short amount of time, and if you get caught up in something because you ran out of endurance or miss timed a move its pretty much over quickly. Just the fact the melee player has to break through a solid wall of death without his primary tool, hitpoints. To face a fresh, prepped and ready moonveil katana ash of war in the face which has poise break higher than many of the pure strength weapons, I dont really see as "respectful" infact the opposite - you survived an onslaught of magic to come out the other side with 5% hp left swigged a potion and chased down the foe and were frowned on for doing so. I guess for fairs sake, 0 potions hp or fp. Casters had their chance to do damage from range and passed or failed then met a superior melee combatant. With a varying degree of health due to their own skill.
They’re separate spells. To put it as spoiler free as I can, this version is called Carian Phalanx and it’s available shortly after you beat the boss in the very very northwest of Liurnia. There’s a really cool side quest you can start after that and you unlock this spell soon after beginning it :)
They didn't heal? Watch it again, the only thing they do is restore their FP not their health, which is accepted by the duelling community as fair. Though I'm not sure how much I agree with it because I think strategic management of FP should be a thing for mages in duels, but that's my opinion. I don't dictate the community rules of honour.
@@notan3144 Stamina is regenrated automatically, which is what weapons use as resiurce for attacks. FP doesn't regerate automatically. Therefore, restoring it is fair.
Invaded twice by a blight. It’s not fun at all. They dodge and insta death you at the same time. It’s retarded. I rather fight this mage than the blight exploit.
"Respectful" This warped sense of pride and respect in this community is hilarious. While still emploring cheese tactics, exploits , DC ing when they lose etc. Thinking they didn't lose when they pull the plug etc. I'd rather not play by some fedora tipping rules and play without exploits and cheese. I'm not saying you did, it just seems rather silly that some people think their "rules" bother someone else.
There should also be duelist summon signs (red) around but I don't know where to find them yet. People usually congregate around good "arenas" for PvP clear of enemies and terrain.
@@NimhNom I use taunters tongue in Giants end game area and seem to get invaded instantly after each fight. Taunters tongue is a great way to bait invaders in for a 1v1. IT'S NOT DUELS. Duels you put a sign down. Taunters tongue actually allows you to be invaded as a solo player and speeds up the invasion time. I'm getting 20k xp per kill when they invade me XD
is it just me or does being a mage just make the whole game a big cheese fest, most bosses get cheesed by mages 🧙♂️ and kill a good amount in pvp all because of spell casting, ive never died to a blade user but i have died countless times when invaded by a mage cuz they just sit back and cast spells which winning is winning but i wouldn't even go as mage just cuz ik it's annoys and pisses people off
What your encountering is a fighting game thing known as zoning. Once you learn the grab bag it's just down to timing. Mages on average have a sliver of health. Use poison daggers. Crossbows and bows. Mages ranges for the most part are actually shorter than arrows. They will also have fewer health flask due to needing more fp. Just learn the match up. Mages get spells. You get a plethora of thrown items that interupt casting. You just need to disrupt their flow. Stick to mid range and don't give them time to breath. Enough room to dodge. But close enough so they can't cast. Even the swift pebble has a start up and cooldown.
The weapon arts and magic are cool, but I feel like they are taking away from older melee based pvp. I have yet to invade anyone that doesn’t use a “anime” like attack or spell.
I dont know if im the only one who sees this, but you know how we all give shit to animes like DBZ and shit that allow their enemies to either power up, gain distance, or set up? Here we are in real life doing the exact same thing they do lmao.
I was trying to organize a lot of arenas in the starting area with glowing stones and stuff. So many noobies and new players just run in to kill me! Even though me and 2 other red ones are spectating other 2 fight in the arena. Like wtf is wrong with these grifters?
Well as you said it, "noobies" have no idea what a fight club is. Also there's a 4 player max in Elden Ring so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Sounds like you are talking about dark souls 3.
It's not 'beyond hard', it's an adequate challenge but definitely easier than previous souls games due to certain mechanics (summon ashes and ashes of war for your weapons).
how to play mage: spam everything you have, sooner or later the enemy will miss his dodge and die.
or u ran out of fp and die
Or you use tree sentinel shield
Carian retaliation
Starscourge greatsword go brrrrr
the way he plays is pretty genius, he uses the star rain ability to make it where he cant be approached. and then follows it up with differrent ranged atttacks that have varying timings to intentionally fuck up their dodge timings.
Fighting a magic build is just a really stressful bullet hell
Just spam crossbow
Shits annoying
@@YukitoOnline can you?
@@jcdenton1868
Spamming black key...
That just makes it even more fun!
Specially because, once you land the hit... it's all over for them lol
I love the magic system in this game. Why use a big hammer when you can use a Spell that's a big hammer lmao
Meh, it's the ash of war on the dagger that's doing most damage and its not supposed to work like that. When I see a mage do this I run because my stamina bar is bigger and I'm not getting cheesed by someone who thinks they are good. They can run out of mana but I can't run out of stamina.
@@chickenflex4882 What the fuck are you talking about? What dagger?
@@keyanklupacs6333 or sword
@@chickenflex4882 did he ever actually use his ash of war? I was reletively certain he was just mixing up different spells?
@@keyanklupacs6333 he used it at the start and the effect lasts and buffs all spells cast for like 60 seconds or something
mages have so many area denial in this game and the denial spells are actually good. really covers the weak point of getting rushed.
Bloodhound step sadly trivializes it all thougj
takes no skill
A duel between two mages is an anime showdon.
A duel between a mage and a meele player is one's desperate struggle to survival.
A duel between two meele is a competition of who runs out of stanima first.
Honestly, when they say that mages got the op stuff in this game, looking back to Soulsborne and all the miracle builds, Espoc, rollspam, I say good for them, they deserved that.
Mage builds really aren't good. Blood hound step or any fast weapon to apply pressure like a rapier completely shuts them down
@@fashionsuckman4652 Like there isn't 181616 vids on this very channel of dudes with bloodhound step walking right in a spell. Anything that doesn't have quickstep and the likes are in danger even fast weapons, saying it's not good because of a single counter simply ain't accurate either.
You forgot a duel between two quick steppers.
@@fashionsuckman4652 yeah it took an op ash of war to stop an op spammer
I haven’t had an invasion like this yet, the last invasion I did I just ended up leading the host to the grace and returning to my world
to me they either run for 20 min or i get gangbanged by 3 assholes that spam scarlet rot breath
Didn’t expect friendship
lol whats next? inviting them over for a beer?
Why does any 1 v 1 in elden ring feel like an anime battle. Man my character can summon a whole moon.
two!
I always appreciate people who are respectful in pvp.
Always ❤️
So cool. Watching all these videos I feel like a dollar store version on mine. I haven’t even gone past Margit yet though and I’m 13 hours in 😐
I'm gonna have to admit, I'm like 50 hours in, and I only beat Margit a few hours prior. It's like I spent so much time just wandering and exploring, and for some reason I didn't feel like going to Stormveil Castle yet, so don't feel bad about that.
(Though I didn't overlevel that much when I faced Margit. I was only lvl 35 with a +3 weapon).
@@warkiller I think level 35 with a +3 weapon is overpowered for Margit
Yeah what a game if you can enjoy 50 hours without even progressing the story. Good shit! I’m lvl 26 with +2 weapon. I got that 2 hander hammer from the boss with the lantern chain in one of the tombs, just not used to playing without a shield so gonna try that out for a bit first before Margit. I’ve tried him a few times and got him to 50% so should get there soon. I ended up there level 9 too , big mistake.
@@warkiller question. Did you walk across the map because I'm about 65 hours in and I've killed three shard bearers, multiple bosses, explored the entire map except nokron city and whatever is after it and found a bunch of optional stuff
@@MoonlitPhoenix0 Nah, I used the horse plenty of times. I just tried to do a thorough exploration of the regions I've been in. So far I explored pretty much all Limgrave, Weeping Peninsula as well as stumbling a bit into Caelid(and deciding it's probably best I come back later after I snatched some things), stumbled into Liurnia(totally possible without doing Stormveil Castle), explored a bit of Siofra(again, decided it might be best if I come back later).
I've also spent some time doing some jolly cooperation from time to time.
So overall, I've just been taking my time and appreciating the game's large amount of content.
Gotta love random invaders that don't attack while you're afk, that's a rare thing too q.q
I do this all the time! If I see them afk, I use the "sit" emote and wait or start messing with his body and using the rainbow stones all around him 😆
@@christophersebastiao7501 That's the fun kind of invader imo, it's always the best to comeback to someone using the carvings too.
My greatsword brethren was fighting a bloodborne boss.
bro just spammed the most annoying spells at his disposal 💀
Pure art
Nice, this taught me some combos for mages, oh also, small spelling error in your title, might want to switch it to duel*
Ty will do thanks for pointing that I out I would of never noticed ❤️
@@ElJayEmCee would have*
*Proceeds to get crushed by a boulder*
@@smolchild1057 You gotta time it so that it rolls off the cliff my guy.
@@TrulyLegitGaming I've never heard of that "cliff my guy", where is it located?
*gets obliterated by chandelier*
Elden Ring makes every PvP battle feel like a boss battle, that's cool
the PVP in this game is insane. elden ring is a worth it game to buy. so much value
@Bombadil Squire why are invasions sucky?
@@Onepieceownz Stars of ruin in anywhere that isnt an open field is unbeatable.
I don't know if using Star of Ruin is that respectful. :D
Nice Hammer hit! The timing on that one *chefs kiss*
Oh and btw, Elden Ring TH-cam algorithm currently bless your channel man! Keep it up with the good content
I need that greatbow spell on my mage to practice free aiming. in all the previous souls game I was a free aim god with sorceries in pvp (miracles too) In dark soul 3 I could regularly get great soul arrow and lightning arrow to hit unlocked.
Are you sure? It's uh, homing, how would that work for you? Or do you mean the regular version?
@@kickrobotsintheballs5840 I don't know if LM can be free aimed. Thats why I'm saying I want it
99% of people who play a mage stay locked on no matter what in combat but that makes spells easy to predict and dodge. I want the spell to see if it's possible to predict the path of a moving target and try to see how many of the projectiles I can get to land. Sometimes it's as simple as shooting an attack that fans out in a short distance infront of you into the ground to ensure they collide with your opponent. It would be just nice to know that I have the option
@@timothycain8639 I think it drops from the actual boss at the Haligtree or whatever the area is called, you fight the apparition copy of her in Liurnia of the lakes, the tree is pretty end game area i'd say so be on your toes there. I'm not sure it will work out tho, since homing spells must be used with lock on or else they will just fluke or fly anywhere but where you want them to. But you do you, maybe i'm wrong.
@@kickrobotsintheballs5840 I think it's possible to free aim a lot of homing spells, since they typically fly out then curve in the direction of your camera, obviously it won't track your intended target though.
the NPCs watching this fight: yeaaaaahhh no I'm not dealing with that.
respectful 1v1 duel and he plays mage...
I feel like if mages can spam FP and drink their flasks then melee builds should be able to rejuvenate health.
Bro, that hammer spell is so fun to use.
these pvp are crazy
Ah yes the bonk of death
love this kind of non toxic people damn
What class are you in this video? I started yesterday and made a bandit and later tried prophet.
Astrologer I think
dont let your class choice keep you from playing different builds, once you get high enough level you can try it all. im running a mage build on my samurai.
Respect for strength guy 😂
Really don't like the "respectful" duel where you don't heal. The mage has 10 fp potions and can burn them all no problem. The melee has 10 hp potions but is frowned upon for using them. When first he has to dodge for a few minutes. Then finally gets close to meet an almost equally powered melee combatant using an INT scaled weapon.
Mybe limit to 3 flasks?
I don't think it would matter if you used all flasks, infact likely fairer, the spell casters would have to really make a decision before dueling as to whether to bring 5hp 5fp for example vs 9fp and 1hp and so to the melee using ash of war?
Love your videos though, great player! Keep up the good work.
An argument by some maybe that the duel will last forever, its my experience so far that the duels usually last a very short amount of time, and if you get caught up in something because you ran out of endurance or miss timed a move its pretty much over quickly.
Just the fact the melee player has to break through a solid wall of death without his primary tool, hitpoints. To face a fresh, prepped and ready moonveil katana ash of war in the face which has poise break higher than many of the pure strength weapons, I dont really see as "respectful" infact the opposite - you survived an onslaught of magic to come out the other side with 5% hp left swigged a potion and chased down the foe and were frowned on for doing so.
I guess for fairs sake, 0 potions hp or fp. Casters had their chance to do damage from range and passed or failed then met a superior melee combatant. With a varying degree of health due to their own skill.
How do you even fill an fp bar like that? Ive got +9 and cerulean seed and mine tops off barely at 40......
You know it's a duel in a FromSoft game when someone stacks 20 buffs on themselves before the fight even starts
Yes!
At 1:00 what did the red use here? It looks insane!
sacred relic sword's weapon art
As usual - no one expects that hammer
lol respecful proceed to spam all sorceries knowne to mankind
Hey how did u get your spells buffed like the carian phalanx with more swords cause i have only like 5 when i activate the spell
I believe you can charge carian phalanx
They’re separate spells. To put it as spoiler free as I can, this version is called Carian Phalanx and it’s available shortly after you beat the boss in the very very northwest of Liurnia. There’s a really cool side quest you can start after that and you unlock this spell soon after beginning it :)
Y'all, you gotta charge straight in when they pull out the bow. That has such a long animation.
Haha I love the Mysterio cosplay!
I see you found out that the determination ash of war also buffs your weapon in the other hand
not weapon, all damage
That was nice.
spamming stars of ruins, skills lmao
Oh I'm sure they'll put dung in the game at some point if not already cause really that's hilarious
What helmet are u wearing?
Lusats
Looks so cool, really wish i could play though
Mage prefer use 2 stuffs, or stuff and magic weapon with cool arts :)
Is the meta going to be 120-125 still?
Bro you are the boss fight
Now that was a good fight.
Bro playing this game like its harry potter
Good times
due what the hell fighting mages is insane, non stop spam
This dude b like "hey you like schmups"
You healed, they did not. You broke the etiquette in this duel.
They didn't heal? Watch it again, the only thing they do is restore their FP not their health, which is accepted by the duelling community as fair. Though I'm not sure how much I agree with it because I think strategic management of FP should be a thing for mages in duels, but that's my opinion. I don't dictate the community rules of honour.
@@notan3144 Stamina is regenrated automatically, which is what weapons use as resiurce for attacks. FP doesn't regerate automatically. Therefore, restoring it is fair.
lol using royal knights resolves bug, that not respectful
I will change this in the future ❤️
Not a bug. Just a useful side effect
@@nosus4091 can you say the same for the blight insta death build you see invading people lol
@@ElJayEmCee God no those people are the worst
Invaded twice by a blight. It’s not fun at all. They dodge and insta death you at the same time. It’s retarded. I rather fight this mage than the blight exploit.
"Respectful" This warped sense of pride and respect in this community is hilarious. While still emploring cheese tactics, exploits , DC ing when they lose etc. Thinking they didn't lose when they pull the plug etc. I'd rather not play by some fedora tipping rules and play without exploits and cheese. I'm not saying you did, it just seems rather silly that some people think their "rules" bother someone else.
is this the new harry potter game?
It could well be 👁️👄👁️
Are you getting invaded as a solo? If so how :o
Taunter's Tongue (0:16) allows solo invasions. You need Furlcalling Finger Remedy active in order to use the Tongue.
@@Joshpl Thank you been trying to figure this out fo awhile now
There should also be duelist summon signs (red) around but I don't know where to find them yet. People usually congregate around good "arenas" for PvP clear of enemies and terrain.
First Step grace seems to be the spot until we find something better
@@NimhNom I use taunters tongue in Giants end game area and seem to get invaded instantly after each fight. Taunters tongue is a great way to bait invaders in for a 1v1. IT'S NOT DUELS.
Duels you put a sign down. Taunters tongue actually allows you to be invaded as a solo player and speeds up the invasion time.
I'm getting 20k xp per kill when they invade me XD
what level are these guys at ?
th-cam.com/video/EFxeJlTSZVo/w-d-xo.html
Nothing respectful about playing as a mage.
We will agree to disagree 🤔👀😉
Mysterio and Dr Strange ?
Lol why is the warrior putting himself at a disadvantage. Is kinda dumb to run away from a mage, instead put pressure on close quarters.
Competitive = honor
What lvl are you?
th-cam.com/video/EFxeJlTSZVo/w-d-xo.html
i hate when 1 vs 3 its not fun for me
What's the name of that bow spell?
Upgraded form of loretta's greatbow. Loretta's mastery.
is it just me or does being a mage just make the whole game a big cheese fest, most bosses get cheesed by mages 🧙♂️ and kill a good amount in pvp all because of spell casting, ive never died to a blade user but i have died countless times when invaded by a mage cuz they just sit back and cast spells which winning is winning but i wouldn't even go as mage just cuz ik it's annoys and pisses people off
What your encountering is a fighting game thing known as zoning. Once you learn the grab bag it's just down to timing. Mages on average have a sliver of health. Use poison daggers. Crossbows and bows. Mages ranges for the most part are actually shorter than arrows. They will also have fewer health flask due to needing more fp. Just learn the match up. Mages get spells. You get a plethora of thrown items that interupt casting. You just need to disrupt their flow. Stick to mid range and don't give them time to breath. Enough room to dodge. But close enough so they can't cast. Even the swift pebble has a start up and cooldown.
Always the best the duel like this! Respect your opponent, but never fear him.
I try to do this but it’s just full of ppl who one shot. Not even fun.
The weapon arts and magic are cool, but I feel like they are taking away from older melee based pvp. I have yet to invade anyone that doesn’t use a “anime” like attack or spell.
Since launch I've faced many different builds. Most common I've seen recently is spear of madness or whatever it's named.
Bro eres amgo... no mereces respeto..
Thanks!
Whats your level
th-cam.com/video/kYmMRl_8NqU/w-d-xo.html
lol what a mana bar
What is your soul level?
th-cam.com/video/EFxeJlTSZVo/w-d-xo.html
Good match!!!
All i get is double moonveil c**ts or triple ranged gankers and/or disconnecters
I wish we could respec all the time so I can just build a toon whenever. I dont want to beat all the bosses again and collect all my gear....
You can respec alot in this game i in my first playthrou i have 10 larval tiers or whatever the respec item is.
PameloTMS i think he meant unlimited respec, not just 10 times. If only larval tears are farmable or buyable repeatedly
@@vedajanitra8199 10 should be enough thou right. And also its a bit more than ten i used one and im sure there are more i havent found
You realise you get like 14 respecs per run right? If you're respeccing that much you need to chill.
I dont know if im the only one who sees this, but you know how we all give shit to animes like DBZ and shit that allow their enemies to either power up, gain distance, or set up? Here we are in real life doing the exact same thing they do lmao.
Yeah we just pretty much just do it out of respect for one another lmao
@@Shimo_F it's like you either kick my ass or im gonna kick yours buts its gonna be at full power. Im not going to bitch out
@@themobilegamer9897 literally lmao
I was trying to organize a lot of arenas in the starting area with glowing stones and stuff. So many noobies and new players just run in to kill me! Even though me and 2 other red ones are spectating other 2 fight in the arena. Like wtf is wrong with these grifters?
Well as you said it, "noobies" have no idea what a fight club is.
Also there's a 4 player max in Elden Ring so I'm not sure what you are talking about. Sounds like you are talking about dark souls 3.
Whats the build?
th-cam.com/video/EFxeJlTSZVo/w-d-xo.html
you only called it Respectful because you won lmao
What that armor tho
Lusats
Hard
I heard this game is beyond hard, never played it. 🤔
This guy's build makes it easy.
It's not 'beyond hard', it's an adequate challenge but definitely easier than previous souls games due to certain mechanics (summon ashes and ashes of war for your weapons).
So now RB RB RB is just RB Dpad Up RB Dpad Up RB lmao
Magic is so boring... Always running never really attacking physically
Not true the carian spells are more better with offensive pressure
Have you never seen a mage in fantasy before?
wait i seen this in the other guy channel
stars of ruin is just stupid op spam and win. there is no way of rolling all
that's not have respectable
Bruh playerbase is tired of playing agains mages , stop trying to make easy mode
Helm name
Lusats
"duel"
Get more creative
Will do
What is that helm
Where’s the respect? You spammed magic the whole time while wielding a sword.
Why you using flask of cerulean tears ? Should be no heal no potion 😑you called that respectful duel ?! 🤣what a joke
FInally a game for handicap kids was released.
gotta love not using any of the game mechanics and just spamming spells. so much skill is required i see
Still fun for ppl though.
Yeah how dare people play different from your play style, how dare they have fun in their own way. Anyway cry about it and touch grace.
to be fair he did actually use a weapon art to buff his spell damage which is more than i see most spell spammers do