MEDIEVAL MISCONCEPTIONS: torches and candles
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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Fire torches and candles of the medieval period are very misunderstood and the true versions of these lights are very different to what is portrayed in pop-culture and fantasy.
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Glass, even the kind available in the Middle Ages, was EXPENSIVE and SCARCE. More often than not, lanterns would have panels of flattened and scraped- thin HORN instead. Also, although not as frequently, thin panels of mica would be used. As well, sheets of rawhide, which also was used to cover windows
This, absolutely. It's kind of weird people think glass is even necessary. Maybe its growing up somewhere where primitive living wasn't to uncommon. But making oil? Not that terribly hard, especially if its fat based. Making candles and lamps from it? Also not hard. Animal fat lamps are super easy, rushlights are disposable as heck, and making your fat into a more permanent candle yourself isn't difficult.
But lantern walls? Look to American rendezvous communities for details. Glass is frowned upon since most frontiersmen during the periods they represent lacked easy access. What do you do? Everything from wrapped reeds, to horn, rawhide or hammered metal, rolled thin, with holes punched in it. A lot of American western families will just have those sitting around their basements. A roll of thin copper with a conical cap, with holes punched into it. Some were clearly made on the cheap (as in, the person buying the metal just shaped it into a lantern and punched holes with a knife) some are purpose-made. Some combine wood, metal, with cheaper walls.
What? No, glass wasn't that big of a deal. There is one thing to have a glass panel and another thing to blow a glass cylinder that is open on both sides. Not saying that it was the most common type, I do not know. But you make it sound as if glass was expensive to make. You burn seaweed, mix the ash with sand and then you melt it. The more soda ash the lower the melting point. Just like there where professional smiths there where professional glass workers.
@@MegaBanne Yes, there WERE professional glass makers, and they were HIGHLY PAID craftsmen. Up till the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, in the 1800's, glass was NOT a mass produced item, and it WAS expensive to make! For a person to have a glass pane in one of their windows was considered to be a sign of wealth and status(even if it was cloudy and full of bubbles). Glass may be nothing much more than sand, but not ALL sand can be used to make it. I suggest you do a little more research into the subject
@@mikegrossberg8624 it's actually a myth that glass was hyper rare during the middle ages. It could be uncommon in some places but there is archeological evidence of lots of glass being produced from that time. Britton in particular had decent glassblowers making glass art, panes, cooking wares, and science (alchemical) equipment. Most of the glass seemed to be science experiment like distillation apparatuses and glass panes. Colored glasses is a different story altogether. It was harder to make because not a lot of people knew how to make it well.
The Brittons we're good at making glass because of the Romans and their influence. Britton has all of the natural resources available to produce good glass, which was not the case for many other parts of the world. It's one of the reasons why Britton was a glass making powerhouse at the start of the industrial revolution, that and the skilled labor.
Also think horn too
"Torches last 10-30 minutes, not hours."
Nonsense. Indiana Jones could open a temple sealed for hundreds of years and the torches were still going.
Well, that temple was getting maintained by a groundskeeping knight over the whole period so it was probably handled by that dude.
Same for Lara Croft, she was very lucky to always find burning or prepared torches that were unused.
well, torches only spend it's resource while carried by anyone. At least this is how it works in Morrowind
i always find that trope hilarious, even as a little kid i was thinking "do people just come into the dungeon/tomb every few hours to replace candles and torches? Why?
@@CtrlAltRetreat the same dude who painted all the edges I can climb on? Or is this his girlfriend's job?
*Oh! Look at these conveniently lit dungeon*
that is supposed to be lifeless and abandoned
_I wonder who lit it up_
Magic?
Literally hate that about video games. Let it be fucking dark if i did not bring a way to light it. Also, hate when its a natural cavern or something and there are torches, or unlit torches you can light yourself. Very big on if you are unprepared, your quest or what ever, should be hard.
In Skyrim they made an excuse for Nordic ruins with a Lorebook that states the Draugr are keeping the place well lit
It's still really dumb though
In Skyrim the draugr actually are the ones keeping torches and candles lit as well as the doors with easy to figure out locks are supposed to keep draugr in not adventures out
@@jaydenlobbe7911 The Draugr keep the entire place guarded and lit because they need to see too. They wake up every day to give their energy to the Dragonpriest, do their tasks and go to sleep to recharge their energy.
Teacher: we're going to be learning about medieval battles!
Me: History is so boring.
Shad: We're going to be learning about really old candles.
Me: Fascinating.
🤣🤣🤣
I think it has to do with the fact that most schools glaze over the subjects they talk about. Legit most history teachers have a fairly base level of knowledge on the events they talk about but history buffs on TH-cam actually dig into the details and that’s where people become interested
All my history teachers so far haven’t even talked about that, all they’ve talked about are the farmers that used to live in Canada lmao.
History is my favorite subject
Team Cap no i’m not talking about the natives, i’m talking about the europeans that settlers in eastern canada lol
And this is why we only use bio-luminescent mushrooms, or in some cases cyrstals, for generic dungeon lighting.
Don't forget the amazing "mage light" glowing orb!
Warpstone?
At a pinch just an eldritch glow in the air will do, just in case a human hero comes in and needs to see in the dark.
Dirty hippies! ;p
Why not just make places uninhabited by sentient creatures dark?
Shad: Torches don't last forever
Skyrim Adventurer: Finds a lit torch inside a wooden chest at the bottom of a lake
Or, Skyrim Adventurer: Finds torches still burning in a draugr crypt that hasn't been opened in over a thousand years.
Skyrim addresses that with some of the in-game books. Draugr actually have a daily routine that includes cleaning and setting lights. That being said, their usual supply closets are nowhere near large enough to hold enough candles and torches to last for hundreds of years.
And if you wonder why there are always dozens of urns filled with loot inside Draugr caves, what else are you to do in a thousand years of exile as an undead being besides take up pottery and gold coin collecting. They have to put the gold from all these dead adventurers somewhere...
@@RenzXVI Another thing that makes no damn sense is what is the point of those Claw doors? I know that there is something that addresses this, which says that it us not keep people out, but to keep the Draugr inside. But what about all the Draugr BEFORE the Claw Door?
@@BlairCat_ Those outside was the ones that wanted to kick those inside inside. Or that's how I explain it for myself. Cause toherwise it amkes no frickin sense.
Torches don't hold a candle compared to lanterns.
Is this a triple pun?
@@stagelinedpro yes, yes it is
You clever bastard.
Shut up and take my like
Ba dum tsh
Leatherworker: I made some armor from this leather, and put studs on it!
Shad: >:O
Leatherworker: It's called a brigandine. The studs are rivets that hold the metal plates together.
Shad: :D
Lol u made me :D
Gotta be honest, you had me in the first half.
😊😊
@@theangryaustralian7624😊
According to the game Neverwinter Nights, torches automatically light up when you hold them, go out when you put them in your backpack, and last forever.
Well, if you look at it in your inventory while your holding them, it's not lit, nothing changes there, which means that while it's in your backpack it's actually on fire.
Minecraft had a simaller problem. It's on fire in the inventory and in your have, but it only actually gives out light when you put it down.
Cool to see someone mention Neverwinter Nights.
There are mods which change that...though it makes little difference with how easy it is to get permanent magical light sources and how many areas which should be dark are inexplicably lit up.
Don't get me wrong, I love the game a _lot,_ but the fact that torches being infinate, instantly lit/quenched, and almost weightless is hardly relevant to the game makes me wish that more module creators (including the official campaign creators) did more to make light a more important thing to consider for races without darkvision.
Maybe it's just my preference for lower magic, but inexplicable and nearly ubiquitous ambient light and easy access to permanent light source items takes away from my enjoyment of delving into caves and dungeons at low levels.
Sorry for sidetrack.
@@dynamicworlds1 I don't mind the sidetrack, and when I don't have darkvision I get an item that fixes that.
According to Gothic, a tourch quenched after just one second of use, can't be lit anymore...
Minecraft: Imma just make a tiny torch, that can last till the end of time
It's funny how we talked about the torches when literally all the material are floating except the living kind.
Oh,and sand,gravel,water,and lava
@@theblackbear6501 true
@@theblackbear6501 Water and lava sorceblocks float only the water/lava they produce don´t.
I like how 7 days to die did it, they made them not too hard or easy to make, but you need cloth fragments and animal fat to make them, as well as some wood, and I'm fairly sure they don't last forever (although I haven't tested that), although it would be cool if they make them burn dimmer as they run out of fuel :/
Wait, so you're telling me that torches were used mainly like flashlights. . . or in British English . . .a torch
I've never understood why Americans keep referring to a tool used to cast light as a "fleshlight".... I guess it's because a torch might look like a covert fleshlight? :^)
Allow me to help you. "Because these early flashlights also used energy-inefficient carbon-filament bulbs, "resting" occurred at short intervals. Consequently, they could be used only in brief flashes, hence the common North American name "flashlight"."
Mind blown!
Blacktimus Prime woooosh
@Blacktimus Prime he used the word "fleshlight", not the word "flashlight". The former being a a sextoy, the late being the implement with you described.,
This is also where the phrase, "burning the candle at both ends," came from to refer to staying up late. The cord of the rush light could technically be lit on both ends to cast more light. Good for if you were up late working on something. (scribes, craftsman with a deadline, so on)
I always understood that the phrase meant staying up so late that the candle burnt right down - thus being burnt at the top when you light it and burnt again at the bottom when it sputters out. The origins of sayings are always a bit ambiguous and hard to pin down.
You could very well be right. I've heard that one as well. But I've also heard the one about rush candles. I tended to believe that one since it made a specific historical reference like that but I don't have any proof either. Like you say, it's ambiguous.
Also good for necromancy.
Nah, if you hold vertically a candle lit at the bottom, you'd burn your hand, horizontaly all wax would just strain to the ground.
whoa
"What nerd wants to watch a 16 minute video on torches?" -Me 15 minutes ago
So long as you don't finish the video, you'll be alright.
" What nerd wants to watch a 16 minute video on torches?" - Me 8 minutes ago after watching the video at 2X speed.
''what nerd wants to watch a 16 min video on torches?'' not me cause this is the second time i'm watching it
Fun fact: I did in fact get a kidney stone from drinking to many energy drinks and getting them removed was the most uncomfortable experience of my life. So kids, stay in school and drink plenty of water.
WHO LET YOU OUT OF YOUR BOX!
to Shadiversity
hey SHad, what if I craft a spike on the butt end of my long torches, can I used it as a weapon now?
edit: love the new intro.
Lmfao, a remedy for kidney stones my mom taught me is heated lemon juice in 1 mug and hot honeyed tea in a second mug. The hot lemon juice will break down the kidney stones and will make you parched, and the honeyed tea will smooth out and help dissolve the kidney stones. I don't remember the exact science, but I get kidney stones as well and it's helped me out. From what I've heard, kidney stones happen when you're not very active too
@@shadiversity For lighting inside, could they just make a bigger sconce and burn wood in there like a small fireplace?
I think Shad also drinks too many energy drinks.
“You can get fat very easily”
-Shad, 2019
*Insert generic america joke here*
@@PhyreI3ird I yearn to live in a country where I don't have to bring a magnifier to the grocery store and spend hours perusing the ingredients list just to avoid unnecessary sugars. I WISH horsemeat was all I had to worry about. I'd be fine with that.
@@PhyreI3ird Insert generic fight club joke here
@@PhyreI3ird don't worry, that Aussies are catching up! Only a few spots behind the US!
Looks like Shad would know.
5:50 : "You can get fat very easily." Can't fault Shad for his factual accuracy.
_Irony_
It's his personal experience
actually 5:48
Dolphinboi shad’s plump, not fat.
Well, exept that in those days I would think it verry hard to get get fat
Torches are best when used in conjunction with pitchforks.
Geralt of Rivia does not like your comment.
Nothing like a public lynching.
Ahh! A fellow man of the world I see! Mmyes, yes indeed. Quite the proper usage for such an instrument.
And garlic
@Honudes Gai true, however I've been playing witcher 3 alot lately that is why I went with Geralt.
At first I was going to crack a joke; "Stay tuned for Shads medieval interior design, how to decorate your medieval home like a pro". And then it hit me that it would acctually be an interesting topic for a video. How did you decorate your medieval home? Did only nobles do it or could you see the humble peasent decorate his hovel somehow?
mostly nobles, traders and other similar people yea. most peasants wouldnt care for decorating their homes. only rarely pieces of game such as horns or something, but mostly plebs, poors and farmers didnt usually decorate their homes.
EDIT: but it really does depend what time of medieval era. early medieval decorations were rare, but near to the late medieval even farmers/poorer people would make decorations for their houses.
@@Tauri9111 I'm inclined to disagree. Human nature is human nature, whether you're wealthy or a peasant. I suspect we simply don't know much about poor peoples' decorations, simply because they were humbly made, and not durable enough to last through the ages. Also, even simple tools and utensils can serve as functional decoration, as we see in little curls and loops added to iron racks and spits, for example. It's reasonable to assume the peasantry took pride in things they made with their own hands, especially those things they would use for many years, or even pass down to their children. Woven brooms for example, might have braided cords wrapped about them, and might be hung on a wall beside the door, to serve as a talisman against evil, as well as both decoration and a handy place to keep a daily tool. Of course, peasants wouldn't decorate with tapestries and chandeliers. :D
@@Kaotiqua I will agree with you :) humans are humans. They have been decorating their places since ever. Its a very very wrong conception that has been spread by movies that everything was dark and boring. Mankind knows how to produce some colour since early on. Colours were known during classical times and be sure they were known during medieval times. For instance, Vikings are always depicted in dark colours in movies when they actually used much more vibrant and flashy ones. Vikings wanted to impress and be noticed, they also cared a lot about personal appearance and fashion. We know celtic people had lots of personal ornaments and sure they had also stuff for home decoration. Blame all this darkness on movies…..and people not actually reading history books.
@@Tauri9111 I'm pretty sure a lot of people of even the lowest classes did *something* to make their homes homier... but what was done & how much would likely be influenced on location & time period, since in some cultures the "house" was sometimes shared by the oh-so-valuable domesticated animals.
Most homes contained little furniture. This was even the case in castles. You'd mostly just find a few beds, chests, and stools plus a few chairs and settees.
Torches normally go out before the linen burns. This is a provable fact. What generally happens is the oil will burn, leaving the linen in near perfect condition; slightly charcoaled. Ready for redip and soak.
So the linen or other cloth can be re-used for multiple torches before it’s ruined? That’s *very* useful information, given how expensive (labour-intensive) it was to make cloth.
I'm only guessing, but it would make sense if they mostly used linen from old, worn-out clothes for that.
That's what happens in oil lamps as well. The wick doesn't start really burning till the oil goes out. A 2 inch wick could last for days if oil doesn't run out.
Dont forget that they also used asbestos bsck in the good old days for this.
@Haku infinite maybe instead of a barrel they could use something like what they used to carry water around in a pig bladder but oil instead and pour some on the end of the torch
Thanks for shedding some light on this topic! Nobody can hold a candle to you, when it comes to Medieval issues!
I can't believe you missed the opportunity to say "Shadding some light on this topic." Smh
@@malcolm3099 I defer to my better!
He missed a few very common things.
1) A major source of indoor & outdoor lighting was .. the fireplace or fire pit. In cold areas these would burn bright in the evening, then get banked at night to burn slower (unless more heat is needed).
2) pitchy pine knots. These were placed in sconces then set alight when needed.
3) candlefish. Only used in some areas, usually more northern ones, it was a fish that could be burned.
What he did not cover well was the different types of oil lamps and why they were replaced by cables and rush lights. Here also did not cover the different types and materials for candles and why beeswax were preferred over tallow, until spermaceti candles came to dominate (followed by perrafin wax in modern times). Also, there were a variety of candle and lamp holders to counter the loss of night vision to a degree.
All in all an ok coverage, and he did mention something in torches I had not noticed or considered 😎
The hero of Dragon's Dogma actually uses a lantern instead of a torch. I'm mentioning it, because Shad once praised the game for doing medieval fantasy mostly right. The lanterns are just another example, that they did their research.
But then the weapons are oversized, and there are very few fiels around the town, and just one inside
@@Kamfrenchie Maybe that's why they call it "medieval fantasy" and not "medieval realism". The goal is to have a believably medieval theme, not to be 100% authentic. Besides, nothing is perfect, so let's not be overly anal about it.
Those staff torches really brings the role of "Torch Bearer" to be a way heftier job.
Yeah, makes the job make sense doesn't it?
Gives someone a torch "Keep It Safe"
I live in a medieval house, a grade 2 listed wealden hall. Listing states late medieval. The very notion of someone using an open flame in a house like mine, entirely build of wood is frankly scary.
Open flame was the only light or heat you had. Several generations of people's daily lives were frightening to you. Reevaluate your worldview.
@@Mephilis78 Ok Mr Self-righteous. I'm the one living in the actual house these people lived in and have to maintain this property and you're just some numpty on the internet.
@@Mephilis78 Yes... So what? Do you think people in the middle ages didn't think their houses could burn down too?
Lol.
@@lstr_yin You're a real bitch aren't you?
@@Grave_of_the_Sea settle this with single combat
Trust big Papa Shad to shed some light on a topic.
I see what you did there 😂😂😂
*Shad some light
With the proper source of light too. Not a cliche torch.
*Shadbase*
Shad shedding light on how to shed light on your shed at night.
"Our hero enters the ancient tomb. Torches in sconces burn on all the walls. The hero says, "No one has set foot in this place for a millennia."" Suspension of disbelief BLOWN.
Yeah, I hate when the room nobody entered in a millennia has those unrealistic torches highlighting the shotgun ammo...
For millenias , there's an ammo inside a barrel , cabinets(if they have one) , and an Undead Tomb guardians who have no idea what ammos are
"He sees a strange figure skulking in the dim hallways:
Hero: Who are you? Friend? Foe?
Strange figure: Oh, me? A friend really. I'm Bert, the maintenance guy. I mostly keep these torches lit. 14th of my line, an admittedly humble line of tomb maintenance workers.
Hero:... Huh."
What usually bothers me is so many movies where they depict 'very dark' conditions with a slightly blue-tinted filter over a perfectly normally lit scene, and expect us to believe that the characters can't see the person sneaking by in plain sight.
@@Vastin To be fair. It's generally better for the audience of movies to be able to see the scene wouldn't you agree? Is it realistic no, but I don't imagine many people would be too happy at watching a movie where you can only kind of make things out in the darkness, unless it's a horror of course.
You finally asked the *burning* question.
This was really interesting well done as always.
I'm glad he shed some light on the subject.
I found it illuminating.
@@Bob-lr2xp *SHAD some light on the subject
Real subtle there, Shad
Fine, I'll check out the book...
I didn't know he had a book, that does make sense though in retrospect lol
I didn't realise that was his book. Good to know. I'll check it out once I finish reading Stormlight Archive.
Tell me that was Michael Kramer's voice I heard too
I totally forgot he was doing a book. Will have to check it out.
Well, the subliminal messaging wasn't doing the trick...
Shad: Points out torches in background of painting lengthened to extend burn time
Me: Fails to notice the people trying to kill each other in the foreground
Shad are you secretly holding your editor as a prisoner and feeding him only red bulls. 3:42
You know it's quite generous of him to raise bulls for his editor to feast on :D
@@МаксимГригорьев-ъ7ф But only red ones.
too busy playing rust
@@grimbi2288[Rogue] for life
It's not a secret you can pay 5$ in ChadLand and throw him some popcorn.
Shad, keep this editor. He's got a sense of humor.
Shh. Shhhhh. Shhhhhh. We don't talk with the editor, he may live longer
I wonder i Shad hearted this comment himself or the editor did it for him...
I've never even heard of a rushlight before today. Crazy
Reminds me of how much I don't actually know about the world, thousands of documentaries aside. heh. Thanks man.
Me neither. I was actually surprised that there was no mention of (shitty translation ahead) shingle lights. I kind of assumed that as simple as their design is, the would have been used in many countries. Now that I tried to google it, maybe it is not so. But basically, you took wood shingle, thin and relatively narrow, put it in shingle pincer (bad translation again) and lit it. It was commonly used here in Finland till 1800, and oldest known shingle pincers are from medieval period afaik. Used especially when more bright light was needed for accurate work.
I had heard of them but I didn't realize what they were or how easy they were to use.
They were all over the place in Kingdom Come Deliverance. I just didn't know the name. I just called it an oiled wick.
I'd heard the term but had no idea what it was actually referring to.
Welcome to "Medieval Interior Decorating" with Shad. Today he'll talk about interior lighting and how to get that perfect castle ambience for your D&D or LARP party.
today at 4pm on discovery home and health
I’m pretty sure they made medieval iPhones out of copper ore and chunks of silicon and used the flashlight button.
Much better than the ancient Egyptian flip phones that had no flashlight at all.
Of course they did. They simply had to go to their camera and turn on the flash (the lucky ones, at least).
You ever seen the batteries for Egyptian Flip-phones? Who wants to carry around a spare pair of copper vases?? No way that's fitting in your pockets comfortably.
You know medieval McGyver would have made one
Fun Fact: Torches in Skyrim only last 4 minutes of real time when held in-hand.
Thing is the game is a technical dumpster fire, so when you put the torch away the timer resets.
Technical faults aside, 4 minutes real time is probably pretty close to a more realistic half hour in game time.
@@shuriken188 any Bethesda game is a dumpster fire
@@nowonmetube pretty fun to play dumpsterfires 🤣
@@shuriken188 If memory serves i think its one minute real time equals 30 minutes game time...you want to tell Shad that Skyrims torches last for 2 hours? Lol
@Haku infinite My fantasy has magic lights. Just seems to make more sense.
Shad would be the best DM
I really like these videos on easily glossed over details about historical life. If I ever write a fantasy novel, I'm gonna have to thank Shad for all the knowledge
remy foster as a fellow writer I wish you the best of luck and may I suggest that you send him a copy when you've finished it
@@firestorm165 I just found out he has a ton of writing videos lol. Same to you! I really appreciate it.
Shad, I would like to make you a chair. I'm a carpenter from New York 🇺🇸 and can make you a beautiful medievall style chair as a gift and I would be honored if you would use it in your videos.
Post that one again dude, I'm sure he'd be happy to and just didn't see your comment!
Moar upvotes so he will see this 👆
That would be some insane overseas shipping though.
No matter, I had a free schedule at the time of the OP but no longer do.
@@jonm2416 But I've always loved the chair he's got! Not the particular chair. The pointy medieval-looking style.
A rough-hewn rustic "medieval" restaurant in my city had these chairs. They're painfully uncomfortable. But they look awesome.
"that's not a torch."
*Holds up giant torch*
"Now that's a torch."
I'm so happy some one made this reference, thank you!
Mediaeval Dundee!
@@calebfuller4713 damn you beat me to it.
I read that with an Australian accent without even realising lol
i read that in Aussie accent hahaha
*Especially in video games where torches seem to last forever*
Unlike flashlights which run out of batteries in like 2 seconds. XD
Ever played Penumbra? :D
Leds were already invented, dude
I have a 18650 led flashlight, and keep a spare 18650 around ;)
@@MmeHyraelle my uncle made a LED-flashlight with a coin battery that would fit into a tiny salve pot. he let it run to test how long it'd last and switched it off after a year, deciding that it lasts long enough.
@@DeadSomething and there are my stupid led candles lasting like 1 day with this coin battery... but they also have some wifi reciver in them to be fancy and controllable by remote...
The misconception of some medieval king sitting in a room lit by torches, eating a turkey leg, while the peasants farm potatoes is so widespread that our ideas of what it was like back then is closer to fantasy than reality.
What is the reality ?
@@kevcaratacus9428 turkeys are from the americas, so are potatoes..... a king didn't eat in a dim room lit by torches.
by the hearth or outside or candles
Gigantic open flame + wooden building + tapestries. I see no problem here.
Wooden building, definitely a problem. Tapestries, if they're made of wool, would not catch fire easily at all.
Please make more videos like this. I like swords and battles and stuff but I'm also super interested in the menial day to day stuff of the medieval person.
@@jacobhuskinson3854 wierd direction to go in but yeah sure.
You might be interested in this: fencingbearatprayer.blogspot.com/2019/05/medieval-history-101-unauthorized.html
Seconded!
I stayed in a middle ages/renaissance (I dont remember the exact years it was built) country manor. It was renovated to be a vacation home. Every now and then there were little notches in the wall. It took us a movement to realize that's where they put the candles. A few of the light switches were placed inside those notches, which I thought was pretty clever.
I love your videos, Shad, I love how you do a great job of humanizing people from the past. Your line "people from the middle ages weren't stupid", that was gold. I think one of the biggest thing a historian should be doing is reminding the people who access his works how these were humans, doing human things, only in a very different setting from the one we have today.
Overall, a very interesting, very well-done video, Shad, once again!
I think this is why I have a hard time dealing with most RPG settings - they are made with the assumption that normal people are stupid. Villagers can't defend themselves, "attack" magic is never used for industrial purposes, nobody knows how to make health potions out of the plants in the garden, etc. I don't mind heroes having hero powers, but if you're going to give challenges and tools to commoners, they should adapt.
@jocaguz18 People today, just like in the past, aren't stupid. Most people are just very average. Average is just not very interesting.
I firmly believed that most people can't possibly be stupid... Right up until I started working a customer focused job.
It's a miracle humanity got to the level where it is now.
@@r3dp9 I can buy most people not knowing how to make health potions and such. If asked and even given access to the internet, most people would probably have a lot of trouble making any sort of medicine.
They were not stupid, but most didn't have access to education and started working at a young age. So they knew a lot of practical things but they didn't have the time or knowledge to think about the inner workings. Philosophy, sciences and the likes were the privilege of nobility and clergy and, later, the richest merchants and crafters. Who then realised they were left out and drove the masses against the monarchy. And now that commoners go to school, since they're not that stupid either, they start realising that society is still pretty far from fairness and equality of chances :p
This community needs more love for Shad's editor: thank you for the hard work, mate!
Finally, I have a love life.
3:40 Interesting side note: People in medieval times and later had a quite different sleep cycle. They were up in the middle of the night for maybe up to an hour to tend to the fire and to eat. So the "8h sleep cylce" is something from essentially the last two century, to fit into work cycles and factory shifts.
Falke359 Yup: First and second sleep. When I wake up in the middle of the night, I remind myself that it’s a natural sleep rhythm, so I get up and read for an hour, relax and go back to bed rather than stressing about not being able to sleep. :)
The eating part is new to me, but yes, biphasic sleep was the norm for most of human history. Sleep 3-4 hours, spend 1-2 hours awake (maybe 3 if in the long northern winter) doing stuff usually (but not always) staying in the bed, then sleep another 3-4 hours.
There’d also often be many people in each bed, like a husband and wife and some of their children (or a farmhand, appremtice, servant or slave). Married or unmarried couples might have sex after the first sleep. Younger children would sleep through the night if you had the sex quietly. Older children would politely pretend to still be sleeping until the adults were finished with the adult stuff, and then “wake up”.
Eh, probably not true. Hunter-gatherers exist today so people have actually checked rather than speculated when on the toilet. They sleep all normally, going to bed some 2.3h after sunset and sleep til dawn.
Definitely not true. The sleep cycle is biological so every modern person who goes to bed at any time and sleeps 6 to 8 hours naturally proves the falsehood. Getting up in the middle of the night to stoke fires would not be a natural rhythm but rather a byproduct of winter temperatures and fireplace fuel consumption: you would likely wake due to the cold as the fire subsides and thus add fuel and stoke it back to life before going back to sleep in more comfort (not applicable in tropical areas where similar lifestyles still exist).
@@starkfels-diespielefestung2680 One, you believe the BBC? Two, you believe biological patterns were changed for 7B people in a period of decades and are now hardwired into us despite ~ a million years of evolution?
I am slightly disappointed that you didn't finish the video with "I hope you found this enLIGHTening"
I feel like he might be slipping a bit.😔
So.... WHAT ABOUT THE DRAGONS???!!!! They can light torches too, in fact they are the best torches you'll ever see!
They're also the last thing you'll ever see 😂
@@ShortBarrelRaifu Dragonslayers: "Are you sure about that?"
@@TheHornedKing KnightSlayers. " Oh we are very sure." 😉😁
That's probably why Gary Gygax was said to have played a golden dragon in D&D.
That's true, but dragons are really impractical to be carried around and you can't put them in most backpacks.
"...Like in video games, torches seems just last forever."
Not in Darkest Dungeon...
Ayy, another DD fan! It's a great game.
Shad's comment section is the most wholesome place online.
Looking forward to The Chronicles of Everfall.
Shad alternating between different intros:
*PARKOUR!*
Oil lamps is an ancient invention and were also common in medieval period. In my country, Finland, local novelties were oil lamps made from hollowed out turnips. Even more common lighting source were thin wood shingles made from pine.
Shads: "Small Torches do not last long."
Me: "cool just gonna bring *64* of them, to the cave!"
I love the minecraft refrences
Make it 68, you never know, can be very cloudy outside
@@virtualworldsbyloff I don't think you got the reference
@@virtualworldsbyloff you probably don't get the reference
@@virtualworldsbyloff me casually carry a bag of torch
In the event of an apocalypse or some catastrophic event, I want this man on my team
Shad and Primitive Technology together. Then all we need is a good source for metal (since it seems like we mined all the native deposits already) and we stand a good chance at survival.
Bronze, sometimes, and more common, brushed Iron "light plates" were sometimes placed behind candles/indoor open oil lanterns, placed near walls, to add more light. Clever.
Wait. You mean they didn’t use Dragons to light their homes?
Just once per house ;)
Nah, swamp dragons tend to explode and the big ones are too big and murderous.
Do You mean 'lit their house' ... i'm crying ... lol
Old Village - Lots of new buildings!
That would be *too much* light
Ah, the magic torches that need no fuel and are ever lit. Bless those alchemists!
You forgot about the torches that light up as you enter the room :P
@@WakarimasenKa That's just witchcraft, not good alchemist's work.
One aspect about this is that they actually had two sleeps. They'd sleep at night wake up in the middle of the night stay up for a bit and then go back to sleep.
Any chance I can get a source and some elaboration on that pls?
Not being rude, just have never heard this before
@@rambo-cambo3581 www.google.com/amp/s/www.sciencealert.com/humans-used-to-sleep-in-two-shifts-maybe-we-should-again/amp
@@jacobcox4276 thank You! I consider myself enlightened
It's called 'first sleep' & 'second sleep'. People would use the time in between to read, pray, have sex, etc. I believe even Shakespeare mentioned it. Our roughly 8 hours of solid sleep is more of a necessity since the industrial revolution than a biological requirement.
@@wendyeames5758 Yeah, that's another source almost verbatim ac literatim.
I love seeing these videos on the more mundane aspects of medieval life outside of war and combat. Keep up the good work Shad!
Yeah... I found this surprisingly damn interesting!
Indeed, the everyday of medieval ages is very interesting, not all is war and sword. I want to see more of this kind of videos
Ah, light and darkness. Thanks for another good video. I'm glad you point out that candles were both expensive and very inexpensive, depended on materials. A lantern has two advantages- portability and protection.
I mean a walking staff could theoretically double as one of those long torches seen in the video.
@@501Magnum Which would only last a certain amount of time before you had to replace it, and could potentially catch fire to things you would move out of the way with it XD
@@ViridianForests Good point. BUT WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS!!!
3:43
Shout out to Shad's editor. as a fellow editor, I completely understand and respect that. the number of time I've been up editing at 4 in the morning (with an 8:30 am class that very morning somedays), are more then I can count. people think I'm weird when it's 1 am and I say that the night is still young. I love to edit, and I have a very high respect for editors as well. as great as Shad is, you make Shadiversity happen. you control what over 750 thousand poles get to enjoy. without you, we would never get this amazing content. you do a great job, and I wanted to let you know that I appreciate you as one of those unsung "heroes" of digital media. your art is fantastic. thank you for sharing it with us :)
8:18 "chandelier" is a french word, derived from "chandelle", which means rush-light. So a chandelier is originally a rush-light holder. French for candle is "bougie".
Jamal thought as much. Thanks
Shit... I never realized there was actually a difference between "Chandelle" and "Bougie" (Except in the mechanical field, like "bougie d'allumage", that is). Many people just tend to use them interchangeably whant talking about the small light sources. Thank you good sir for making me learn stuff about my own language XD
@@oz_jones Like a lot of French loan words in English, the word will refer to the noble's version if it came via the Normans/Medieval period. The English adoption never meant rush-light and was taken from Latin not French, candel is one of the few Old English words that survive in Modern English and has always meant candle specifically.
Before a "double-dip" in adopting a word for posh people's light sources, candeltreow (literally candle-tree) was used to refer to candelabra, but chandelier came into English as a specifically French sounding word.
That said chandelle is from Old French which in turn is from Latin's candēla, these were tallow candles not rush-lights in the roman form. Modern French bougie is named for the Algerian city of Bougie which had a good export of quality candles in the 18th Century. This is similar to how the English will call a vacuum cleaner a Hoover or a ball-point pen a Biro. I have no idea if the term "candle" became more generic to include rush-light in it's adoption into Old French then Modern French, but the French certainly had candles before trading with Algeria.
The weird part is that in french "bougeoir" (derived from "bougie") is just a small, portable chandelier. It has nothing to do with the difference between a "chandelle" and a "bougie".
All words in French are "bougie" -- not just their word for candle.
*Unless you're Shad's editor who only needs 2 hours of sleep and enough Red Bulls to give him a kidney stone*
Me: Sweat like hell.
When I was younger and we were piss-poor, we used a piece of a rope socked in oil in a tin can to light our place up. It was very economic and lasted for a very long time.
John Doe: It’s not so long ago that a lot of people had to improvise if they wanted to be able to see after dark. I’ve been surprised at the number of people from the Philippines that have similar stories of improvising to overcome poverty. Thanks for sharing that. Oil lamps are pretty much ubiquitous, aren’t they?
Thumbnail:
"This dungeon is much higher level. Come back once youre ready"
* Shad jumps out from the dark wielding a torch, insta-killing you *
Great video Shad as always. A little side note if I may about the flint&steel. I've heard from a doctor at my old University who is an expert in Roman and Byzantine times, that people sometimes just wouldn't let the fire die. I mean they would keep one source of fire warm, like a fireplace or stove, and extract embers in the morning. If this was not possible they would just go to their neighbor and borrow a "light".
Mostly, yeah. Everyone basically HAD a flint and steel if they could afford it, but if you've ever used one you'd know it can take a really, really long time to get something started. Why go through all that when you can just ask your neighbor for a light or use the one you had yesterday?
If I remember correctly, this is what "banking the coals" refers to. Making a small pile in the corner of the hearth, or stove, to retain a core of heat within that could be brought back to life in the morning
Yeah that are some legends that said that if the person let the flame go out, Zeus or Hestia would punish them (normally with death, because it was considered rude and unwelcoming and the gods really hate unwelcoming people)
Look up FireKeeper in an encyclopedia. _Very_ common among many cultures.
Lindybeige said essentially the same thing
Reed or Rush candles were widely made and used by lower classes, along with tallow candles. The more expensive beeswax candles were popular with churches and those of means.
The funny thing about beeswax candles was they were artificially kept expensive. Anyone could go out, capture bees and start a colony. But beekeeping rights belonged exclusively to the Church. You paid to rent the right to keep bees, and then you also gave the majority of the honey and wax back to the monastery or bishopric in addition to the rights rental fee. You could try to sell the few candles you made with what you had left, but only certain markets were licensed to sell wax products, so you usually wound up letting the monastery sell your candles fir you, for a chunk of the profits of course. If you broke any of these laws, the Church would sue you. Wax candles were expensive, if you weren't a member of the clergy. If you were, you had access to piles of free candles. They used to burn 500 candles to light up a church for an important holy day.
@@danaglabeman6919 I think you slightly underestimate the difficulty of beekeeping.
Not anyone could go out, capture bees and start a successful colony capable of renewing itself and producing meaningful amounts of honey and wax.
The work of a year could be entirely destroyed by the slightest mistake or phenomenons outside of your control. Entire colonies can die overnight because the temperature dropped suddenly, the moisture of the air rose slightly or an unexpected disease broke out.
A risk that couldn't be taken by someone whose livelihood depended on it, unless they were backed up by powerful institutions such as medieval abbeys.
The art of beekeeping was mostly kept by monasteries for that very reason, that monasteries during the medieval era were the technological powerhouses of the time and concentrated dozens of craftsmen, intellectuals, engineers and agronomists subventionned by the Church to practice their art at the highest level and reliant on the security provided by such establishments to practice their highly difficult craft.
Sure, local monasteries and lords had rights on beekeeping, but that was true of any sort of exploitation of the land they owned. Beekeeping in that case wasn't any different from other forms of agricultural activity, save for the fact that the inherent difficulty of the craft made it far less attractive to individual exploiters.
My wife every time I play Skyrim: "Who's lighting all the torches?!?"
I mean, she has a point.
Jensen I just tell myself that it’s the draugr.
Canonically, the draugr periodically wake up and do some home maintenance
That is a universe in which fire magic exists. In fact there's a spell that sprays weak flame for zero magicka cost. It stands to reason the torches could be magically augmented to keep themselves lit. That would explain why they're always lit when you drop them.
Monody ... no, that doesn’t stand to reason. The idea grows ludicrous the more thought is applied to it. It would only make sense in a homogenous environment (e.g all interiors designed by same race, so expect uniform architecture/magical conventions).
Oil lamps need more loving. Everyone forgets what the classic genie LAMPS are actually for.
I second this. Oil lamps go back a few thousand years.
What conditions were braziers for. Or were they mostly just a heat source?
@@kyriss12 yep, seems like they were used for heat mostly. It's open fire, if you would let it make a big flame to light up things, it would be a fire hazard (just like a torch) There were some that even had a lid on them to prevent any stray sparks and such.
Well of course using it outside makes it much safer and good for lighting, but that's basically just a glorified campfire at that point :)
I agree, they were widely used in the Roman Empire, it would seem logical that some type of oil lamp fueled by castor oil would exist, at least during the early middle ages.
Was grinning the whole time, looking at his genie lamp in the background, while he was talking about ancient handheld light sources :D
"You can get fat very easily...." 5:48
So sad and true....
Not in the midevil times
"You can unpause the video now"... wow. How did he know.
I think the ED is running low on sanity. Someone should send him some more red bull.
Thank you Shad me and the boys will be using this for the Darkest Dungeon. That cheap grounds keeper sure fleeced us
I have yet to encounter the elusive torch lighting Draugr in Skyrim who apparently travels Skyrim lighting torches in random dungeons and ruins and caves.
When Shad's editor collects all six infinity kidney stones, he can even cut his need for sleep in half.
8:50 "doesn't take take much of a breeze to blow that thing out"
*Fire arrows: flies through the air at high speed then goes right through steel armor and sets fire to somebody almost instantly even know humans are 70% water*
Shad: am i a joke to you
Heh, arrows going through steel armor, comical.
@@Saturday-Tyrant comical indeed, same as fire arrows still burning upon arrival or setting people aflame... I suspect this was written like that intentionally ;)
@@Heroesflorian Yeah, just want to avoid the "r/woooosh" when I can
someones been watching lindybeige
@@aleccarr6973 who knows *punches with super strength without exploding*
The rushlight part was so intriguing! It made me realize I’ve heard that term in literature for ages but had never actually seen one or realized they were something different. That’s so cool! (Really makes me want to try making one 😂)
The 1st episode of "Tudor Monastery Farm" shows Ruth making rushlights. She boiled the fatty parts of a sheep for almost a whole day while she stripped rushes so only a stripe of cuticle was left with the rest exposed pith. When the fat was ready she skimmed it, and dipped the stripped rush in it for a minute so the pith soaked up the fat. The little strip of cuticle acted like a wick. When she lit one, it gave off a weak, yellow-orangey flame that smoked alot and (she said) smelt really badly, but it looked like enough light to do things that wouldn't strain the eyes. You could have cleaned or cooked, but it wasn't strong enough for anything like sewing or spinning or reading/writing.
This is why I watch Shad. I never even thought about how torches are portrayed before this, just like I never even thought about many obvious fantasy inaccuracies before joining this community.
i found this video to be.. illuminating!
Nice
🍻
As always - thanks, Shad, for shadding some light on the matter. As I'm trying to depict Viking age in my fantasy as accurately as possible (across early medieval Europe too), I often find myself stuck between what's convenient and inaccurate and what's realistic. Even if I know better, some bad habits still linger and it is your YT channel I go to to dispel them.
I actually designed a whole kingdom to be more generic fantasy-like so I can shove all those misconceptions there in form of a subtle satire. Although the general thought of this novel is to depict norse mentality in the ages past, it is my hope that having a realistic setting on one side and a bullshit one on the other will force people to think and question their knowledge.
Shadding some *LIGHT* on the matter, eh? Going for a double-pun in that sentence, are we?
@@coryzilligen790 I saw an opening. And I scored.
I’m doing something similar. That’s why I find these kinds of videos to often be very useful.
This commend is a year old, but if you haven't, Watch Shad's videos on world building.
You are making a Fantasy. Dont be afraid to think outside the box. Just be able to back it up
Thank you for the enlightenment Lord Shad
Super Kamehameha! Our Lord and Saviour, Shad
Shad the man!
_(Not to be confused with Shadman.)_
Hermon the great I declare shad as my patron god
I'm a simple man. I have coffee, I see a Shad, I click. Mornings become doable.
David Tuttle same for me with the good coffee, but I just came from work and it‘s afternoon.
@@Ygdrasil18 I use it as my lunch break, in the middle of work. No coffee tho, by midday I'm onto lassis.
Thinking about avatar the last airbender, “we have six torches, so they should burn for six hours” *LIGHTS ALL OF THEM AT ONCE*
fantasy rearmed: fighting hordes of throwaway enemies
love you shad!!!
Fireball!!!
Ticon Of Ruger uh...
WHAT ABOUT DRAGONS??
@@billysinge8977 Those too!
@Sightless_Seeker Dragon Ball Z?
Ticon Of Ruger 😂🤷🏼♂️
Regarding lighting fires, I was under the impression that people in the ancient and medieval world did their best to avoid lighting fires with flint and steel whenever possible. It's much easier to keep a small fire going, or to keep coals hot enough to ignite things. This isn't to say they never lit fires by striking, but rather that they preferred to just always have either an open flame or hot coals available for starting fires whenever possible. This wasn't really that hard to do, since you'd use fires for heating and for cooking, so you just needed to make sure the coals stayed hot all night, and then in the morning you could throw kindling on them and get flames again, instead of building the fire up from scratch. Chances are, they lit candles and torches and the like from this constant source of fire, rather than lighting them directly.
yes, ember carriers were a thing too (sorry for necropost)
With ashes insulating and limiting the amount of oxygen, coals can stay hot for hours. You might need to poke around a little, but not difficult at all
This is the first of your videos I’ve watched. Thought I was a rare breed that loved to learn about the little nuances of living in older times. You’ve got yourself a new sub and keep up the good work!
"Torches in Videogames seeimg to last forever"
I see somebody didn't played Darkest Dungeon.
Dark Souls 2's torches last 5 minutes
in any survival game torches run out pretty fast :D
I played 'the forest'. trust me, if I learned something from this game, it is that torches last literally forever. at least as long as you finally made it out of that freaking scary cave, damn!
In Skyrim, you can find a lit torch inside a wooden chest at the bottom of a lake...
@@RenzXVI realism 100
So a torch sconce is more like a coat rack, but for a flaming stick.
Sconces could also be used, or designed, to hold onto of pitchy pine. Not fun to carry, but works fine along a stone wall
so you don't have to set your drink down to take a piss
Thank heaven for someone to put the record right.
Just fed up with 'historical' dramas that either have buildings internally lit with hugely dangerous (and dirty) torches, or alternatively with enough beeswax candles to bankrupt the average monarch at the time.
Wow, that intro looked really awesome!
*Runs out of torches*
Ancestor: *And now... the darkness holds dominion - black as death.*
*Terrors may indeed stalk these shadows, but yonder - a glint of gold.*
THIS COMMENT WAS EATEN BY A GRUE.
*HOW QUICKLY THE TIDE TURNS*
I seem to remember Rambo actually doing a solid job of showing the usability of a torch, noting that he specifically would cut strips of cloth and have to keep re-wrapping the torch to keep it lit.
Random lady: Oh, good sire, what is it on your back?
Knight in shining armor: *looks at big rag with a bunch of sticks on his back* Oh, I'm just going to explore some dungeon and have my torch quiver with me!
Only a torch quiver? Clearly he should've taken a mule instead with a full load of torches to the dungeon, said mule can be used to transport potential loot later assuming it doesn't get eaten by wildlife and the knight survives the dungeon.
wait a minute
people had the capability to think rationally back then?
unbelievable
'because medieval people weren't stupid'
- Shad (11:40)
^ there's the proof! ;)
I know! It's shocking, isn't it? Whoever would've thought it was a built in feature of humans?
Strangely, a lot of people think the brain was like Greek philosophy. Developed in antiquity, mislaid during the Middle Ages, and rediscovered in the Renaissance.
"You can unpause the video now" lmbo, wouldn't have to if you didn't make the text Blink by so fast 😂😂😂
Rushlights? Welp, I learned a new thing today, so that's special!
This is why in D&D we invented a magical torch that burns forever. Also, the Light spell. Practicality problem solved.
what? there was an on and off switch on the torch the whole time?....*facepalm*
I was about to say that torches are a poor idea to bring on your dungeon dwelling expeditions. The Everburning Torch is a far more feasible if a more expensive option, since it does not run out and does not produce any heat, so putting it in your backpack is fine. I always went with sunrods though. They last for a couple of hours and you could easily sacrifice one to drop it down a hole in order to figure out how deep it is. Even non-spellcasters have valid options.
But, yeah... high fantasy settings have great ways to make life more convenient via magic. Even such small things like magic kitchen knives that never dull are worth thinking about. Plus it gives a good reason to not have much progression on the technology front. If magic is widely available to deal with bigger problems fairly effortlessly, there is just no need for technological improvement. It's quite understandable how such settings can stay "medieval" for centuries.
Psh, darkvision. Enough said.
@@josephbolton5893 psh. just light the gnome. If you can keep him from rolling on the floor and putting himself out, he'll burn for hours. (alternatively, goblins work too)
@@eldardrakeson that made me laugh so much that it toke way more time then needed to finish reading it.
It's vids like this that make me realize I have a lot to re-edit in my own novel to avoid looking like a fool! x'D
"The match is struck. A blazing star is born!"
"The way is lit. The path is clear. We require only the strength to follow it."
"In radiance may we find victory."
"As the light gains purchase, spirits are lifted and purpose is made clear."
"The light, the promise of safety!"
(The Darkest Dungeon)
When I read those I have the ancestral voice claiming them in my head.
"Secrets can be found in the most tenebrous corners..."
Yeah, you always keep saying pole arms are amazing... So today you introduced us to the freakin' POLE TORCHES
But how about a TORCH POMMEL
@@wyvern5890 Shad has already introduced us to the Pommel of mass destruction. a Pommel that can level a whole city?
Umm... YES,Please!
In my wilderness survival training, I learned a great method of lighting, which is a basic oil lamp... like REALLY basic. You render animal fats or even plants into oil via the boiling method you mentioned, strain it through a cotton shirt or handkerchief (removes gristle and other debris), then pour it into a shallow bowl, be it wood, metal, gourd, or even stone. Now, process some cordage out of local plants. If you don't know how to make natural cordage, definitely look up how to do it, as you can make surgical thread to mooring ropes using the common twisting and staggered splicing method. Once you have some cordage (thickness will determine base level of brightness and fuel consumption, thicker being brighter, but using more fuel), about 1/8" to 1/4" in diameter, coil it in the bowl and fill with the oil, leaving about half an inch or so poking over the edge of the bowl.
Light the end using a flame on a stick lit by your camp fire (never light the lamp directly via camp fire for obvious reasons). You now have one of the oldest known lamp designs, dating back thousands upon thousands of years, possibly even used pre-history. In modern times, you can take a soup can, punch holes in it for ventilation, and use the bottom section of it as the oil reservoir. Punch a hole in the lid (separated from can) for the wick to be pulled through, bend at least 3 pieces of metal inwards from the side of the can about 1/4 the way up from bottom as a shelf for the lid. Now, use some bailing wire to create a bail attached to two opposing holes in the can. You now have effectively made a "hobo lantern" you can hang.
If you found this interesting, definitely look into learning bushcraft skills, as they will give you a lot of insight as to how man once lived, and if - God forbid - society ever collapses and you are without power, you now know at least one way of creating relatively safe and effective lighting. Bushcraft is pretty awesome, as you can learn all sorts of useful skills from trapping to food preservation to long term shelter building and even to learning how to treat a sucking chest wound caused by a branch impaling your ribs and lung - just with some duct tape and a plastic sandwich bag (not a permanent fix, but it'll keep alive you or whomever the injured party may be until professional medical help arrives). Pretty cool stuff. That bag and duct tape thing, btw; cut or tear the plastic into a square patch large enough to cover the wound. Place over wound, and duct tape 3 sides to skin. You've now created a one-way valve that will allow air to escape the wound, but not be sucked into the wound. That little info could save your life. You're welcome! Learn bushcraft; it's not just for prepper weirdos, I promise!
Before: wow shad, really? 15 minutes on just torches?
After: the understanding and knowledge of medieval lighting after dark is an art for in and of itself