Finally someone who competently illustrates in detail a frigate like the FREMM. I am a former officer of the Italian Air Force, with a passion for the military world, and I recognize in your professionalism a soldier with a lot of experience. Great work, keep it up...!!! Technologies already developed on other naval units, such as the Multipurpose Offshore Patrol Boats (PPA) of Revel's Thaon class, have been channeled into the 2 new FREMM EVOs. The expected doubling of the number of launchers (up to four in total for 32 missiles) will be able to be exploited more effectively also with a view to obtaining a land-based deep-strike capability.
Non e' il numero dei mezzi navali e terrestri che rendono grande una Nazione, bensi' la mentalita' dei suoi cittadini.Da Ex militare e dopo aver visto in prima persona all'interno le nostre istituzioni,non mi meraviglia che la stragrande maggioranza e' nata e cresciuta senza alcun valore,senza una vera e propria identita'.
And 155mm guided shells also on their Pzh2000 artillery...cause yes, they have also guided 155mm Vulcano shells. A derivation of the 127mm Vulcano guided shells. By the way also their 76mm are guided: 76mm Strales ammo.
Imagine telling a WW2 battleship captain that someday the biggest gun in western navies would be the 127 mm gun and the warships would have very little armour. Well, on the other hand, there are anti-ship and land-attack cruise missiles which can strike very far and very precisely.
Thanks for reporting on this beautiful ship. A small correction: the DART ammunition has an official range of "over 8km", not 5km. In the Red Sea, it shot down Houthi drones at 6km, sparing precious Aster missiles. The Aster is also combat proven: the French shot down Houthi ballistic missiles with it.
Correction to the correction, during the engagement in the red sea the dart ammunition were not used, the classic oto none guided proximity fuse were used, the dart ammunition was born to counter high supersonic manuvering targets, the good "old" oto ammunition can already deal with supersonic or at least highly subsonic targets and are much more cost effective than the aster or the ram etc
in the red sea it shot down 4 drones, 1 over a distance of 6km, that's impressive, it cost a fraction of a missile! And I saw their new FREMM EVO, or the new DDX classe destroyer, they are really top notch! Happy we will have 2 of them and PPA ships!
CODLAG means Combined Diesel Electric and Gas. Ships peculiarity is to have 2 big electric motors coaxial to the shafts that allow to operate silently at a speed of 15 knots on electric motors only in AS mode. Diesel electric hybrid mode allow to use diesels as generator and keep propulsion on electric to save fuel and achieve good range. The lack of a second (or more powerful) gas turbine allow for a maximum speed of only 27 knots. For sure ASW version has a VDS, should be a CAPTAS 4 from Thales. (Maybe the GP version has it too?) It should be available on the EVO. Just behind the 16 VLS block there is space for another 16. EVO should come with them already installed. Also will come out with anti-ballistic capability. Other ships can be retrofitted with 16 VLS module in the bow. There is a middle ship "add-on" block of 32 VLS at study for the PPA, probably there is one secretly under development also for this one.
Beware that the declaredl maximum speed of an italian FREMM is the value with propulsion using the gas turbine. The one using also the electric motors is not declared. To note that italian FREMMs have variable pitch propellers, while french ones have fixed pitch propellers. Italian FREMM are CODLAG, french ones CODLOG.
A great video, olny three error: The ASW FREMMs are equipped with 4 Milas and 4 Teseo 2/A missiles; The Italian FREMMs are equipped with 3-cell torpedo launchers unlike the French FREMM which uses the 2-cell version. The Dart ammunition have a muzzle velocity of 1200m/s and 8Km max range against air target
It's just like the american FREMM Constellation class - except it actually works. Because some id*ot did not change every part of the design and sensor suite. Imagine how that works...
The military is required by law to use made in America systems and sub systems. Also the ship must be fabricated and assembled in the US. Of course congress made those laws.
To be fair, you can't say it doesn't work, since no Constellation has hit the water yet. Sure, ruining the whole idea of using a "ready to built" design by changing virtually everything WAS dumb, but construction efficiency and operational capability are two very different things.
A lot to like about these ships. I like the idea of two cannons on a ship, maybe USVs will bring more auto-cannon? One concern is serving aboard a 144m stealth ship may be almost like serving on a sub vs the older ships I served on. Thanks Chief, great breakdown. 🇦🇺 ⚓
The EVO version, aside the different radar and Sylver 70 launch system, will drop the 127mm for another 76mm due to the perceived change in threat. With the Ukrainian war going on, and the troubles in the red sea, the 76mm has proven to be an excellent and cheap anti missile/drone weapon, which does not requires the ship to go back in port for reloading. the 127/62 is an excellent weapon, with top Vulcano ammunitions, but ships are deemed too vulnerable to saturation attacks, and a second 76mm can truly make the difference between life and death. I think the USN made a huge mistake in trading the original 76mm for the 57mm on the Constellation: the much longer range and fragmentation volume of the 76mm offer better protection from modern subsonic weapons then the 57mm despite the relatively slower RPM. The larger warhead also offers enough space for a guide system and an effective warhead, still being much cheaper to expend then RIMM anti air missiles.
Some other correction: The dart sistem should have 15 km range (confirmed by an old Leonardo video). The AW101 can carry up to 4 MU90. Btw very cool video, I hope You will cover more Italian vessels in the future! 👍
Bergamini is the mother hull of Constellation class. However, according to Rear Adm. Kevin Smith's brief in American Society for Naval Engineers, the so call "85% common" between FREMM and Constellation class actually mans "functional design" instead of "detail design", which is pretty pointless, because the meaningful common is fall in "detail design", which means how you implemented these functions. As to "detail design", it was far less than 85% in the first place even before Fincantieri won the bid.
the design, the hull and more are one of the most important things, that's a typical US reaction when you don't wanna admit other countries are better, it makes no sense, you think the US would pay license fee for a few % of ITA design? beside the fact that Leonardo has now even a shipyard in the US to build it? The new FREMM EVO, DDX destroyer are marvel of engineering, the guided ammo has taken down few drones in the read sea, 1 over a distance of 6km, the US needs missile for that. This mindset is the end innovation, and the way you manage projects! Navy Admiral Charles A. Richard said: "we have a system in place in which Senior military and political officials switch to suppliers and vice versa. Their decision are based on relationship and not on what we really need". This was the reason for the failures like Zumwalt and many other projects that you now have to watch for foreign supplier to keep up with China.
No, the 2 Fremms sold to Egypt will be replaced by 2 Fremms already built and in trial testing and almost ready for delivery, while the 2 Fremm Evos are under construction and will be 2 more units so we will have 12 fremm, + 2 PPA full version and 5 light version +, and 2 PPA evo with 64 vls to build ... in total 19 frigates
@@met71metaldetector55rileggiti quello che ho scritto. Le due che verranno consegnate a breve, e che sostituiscono le due vendute, si chiamano sempre "Bianchi"e "Schergat" e sono nella versione GPe. Stai dicendo la stessa cosa.
Italy is also building 2 PPA evo to replace those sold to Polynesia, they are equipped with 64 vls also for long range ground attack! and in 2025 the construction of 2 DDX 15000t will begin at the moment we are talking about 80 vls but too big to be so few. the 180m hull will also be used by the U.S. DGG as done for the Constellation frigates
6:40 he not only desribes a CODAG system instead of CODLAG but he also says its 1 diesel turbine and 4 diesel generators....last i checked the lm2500 was a gas turbine hence the G in CODLAG!! He also leaves out the fact that the diesel doesnt drive the propulsion but charges 2 electric motors and those turn the driveshaft hence the DL instead of just D!
the red sea was a good promotion, they took down drones over a distance of 6km!! no need for expansive missiles. We will have the same system on our GER F127 frigate!
Can someone explain to me why there is a 3 inch gun (76mm) and a 5 inch (127mm) gun on the majority of ships but there is no 4 inch gun? I feel like frigates should get 4 inch guns. Destroyers/cruisers 5 inch. Corvettes etc should have 3 inch
All the European Agusta-Westland are made in Italy, only the AW101 (the Merlin) is made in UK for previous agreements of the old holdings (Agusta and Westland)
24:28 the NH90 has a generally very bad reputation in terms of its serviceability/reliability. It is however not generally understood that some countries are very happy with them. There are many different versions and afaik no 2 versions (or country’s versions) are the same
The Italian NH90's are locally built by Leonardo. No issues-no problems. Of course, they are expensive to buy and mantain if You are not part of the consortium. And if we are speaking about australians, the australian military procurement Is a joke...they have problems with all kinds of equipments 😊
@ it isn’t unique to Australia with regard to NH90 NH90 was fundamentally designed so that they inherently were individualised to meet different countries requirements. No 2 countries aircraft are exactly the same which then causes serviceability and maintainability issues. There is an army/air force model and a naval model. But both models are offered with 2 different engine types. There was also sub models within that. For example, the Swedish ones have a higher cabin
No, Australia just complained about any non US made system because of corruption. US bought functionaries talked down everything non americans and talked up future purchases of american systems. Thats how you ended up with aukus as well, which means you get nothing and still pay for it.
the 50 shots of the 127mm cannon are those ready to fire..underneath it has a 2 automatic reserve and there was talk of 500 shots the real number is secret. the 80 km volcano projectile is the one for export sale for the 155mm land artillery with that long barrel the 127 naval minimum reaches 150km and the explosive capacity is equal to the 155mm terrestrial. for helicopters they now use the Marte missile and it is said that it has more than 100km of range always semi-performing.
What he describes is CODAG, this is CODLAG which means combined diesel-electric and gas meaning the diesel charges electric motors which those are hooked to and power the drive shaft with gas added for full/burst speed! The diesel does drive the shaft in a CODAG system which is what he described but in a CODLAG it charges electric motors and those turn the drive shaft. Cant believe hed mess up on something so simple.
16 VLS on the anti-submarine warfare variant and 32 VLS on the anti-air warfare variant. Italy has 2 air warfare destroyers that have 48 VLS with space for an additional 16 VLS for a total of 64 cells.
Great ship but the Europeans across the board are going cheap on their missile magazine capacity . They can’t hold their ground if sailing at a contested area. 16 SAMs and 4 Aswrocs is ridiculous for a ship this size and cost.
16 is the current minimum, in an actual contested area the ships would have another 16 cells added, raising it to 32. In addition to that, the 76/62 is capable to eliminate any incoming threats without even using the guided DART munitions. The two future FREMM EVO will have double that space for VLS cells, raising it to 64. But nothing is confirmed yet.
You didn't heard a lot about 76mm Strales dart and 127mm Vulcano guided ammos i bet... Expecially the 127mm Vulcano guided rounds are guided minimissiles with the same missile precision, capable to hit anything and even doing coastal land attack.
Dont understand why modern warships are being built with such small VLS systems, the whole benefit of VLS systems is to allow multiple launches in rapid succession and flexibility in missile type, all of this is lost if you only have a few cells. Not to mention given the difficulty reloading them when away from bases it severely limits the strategic flexibility of where the veasel can operate without potentially being left extremely vulnerable during the transit home.
To be fair, the number of cells doesn't have to = the number of ready-to-fire missiles. It just tells you the number of the biggest missiles you can fit. With many a modern SAMs you can fit more than 1 in a cell.
Cause the Italians use laser/IR/GPS 76mm and 127mm guided ammo and shells since 10 years now that work flawlessly, capable to intercept anything. So no missile wasting and cost-effectivened.
The main issue I have with this ship and most European ships in general is the incredible small magazine depth for their missiles. Especially VLS. Only 16 on a 6000+ ton general purpose ship. It doesnt even quadpack ESSM.
I'd say this is partially offset by the fact in general most European warships aren't meant for worldwide long term deployments the same way a Burke would be, though a lot of it is also straight up cost
I agree. But it's "fitted for" 32 VLS. And the DART system offsets the need for more missiles. But they should really do something about the Sylver VLS tubes. As you say, they should be able to quad-pack. Italy already has the CAMM missiles for that role.
@@jorehirthe primary armament of frigates are anti submarine focused. It's not a destroyer, missile capability is self defence focused. If you over arm a frigate, you may as well build a destroyer. But the point of frigates is cost efficiency, and a lot of naval roles are unglamorous escort duty which is a waste of a destroyers time.
I'm not sure how the concept of self-sufficiency would work out in practice. For one, the electronics ( which is rapidly increasing in complexity and importance) will always require outside parts. I'm sure it's a good direction to go, but it needs to be complemented with other measures. Just take a look at russia now - they still use a lot of western electronics in their gear, there's not even a glimmer of any home production for that on the horizon. So they have to bend over backwards to get those parts and the supply is limited and expensive. Not even their brother-in-red can do all that much about it.
Leonardo is the world's 6th most powerful consortium, where the first 5 are all us consortium. I bet that the Italians are pretty much self-sufficent for anything they need. And regarding the "western electronics" both the US Predator and Reaper drones alongside the whole UK Merlin fleet, the Gripen last version are equipped with Leonardo Electronic warfare systems. So who do the "western electronics" are fundamentally ALL the western countries.
@@solinvictus1234 Problem with "western electronics" is they are designed in the west. Not manufactured. Does Leonardo have it's own semiconductor fab? Passive components production lines? What about all the other niche widgets required for prodction of PCBs etc? All of these are usually imported from asia. Which is a long way away and has it's own problems brewing. PS. How do you figure Leonardo is the "worlds 6th most powerful consortium"? By market cap it doesn't even make it into the top 200...
@@GalvayraPHX - Does Leonardo have it's own semiconductor fab? Yes they have, in Novara, the Silicon Box. - Passive components production lines? Yes they have in Catania, the STMicroelectronics. - What about all the other niche widgets required for prodction of PCBs etc? Yes they have, ALBA PCB Group, Cistelaier SpA, Cisel s.r.l., Telma Circuiti, Baselectron s.r.l. Italy invented the PC back in the days and today the nanosatellites, is top notch on self production of microchips and semiconductors, not talking about that was an Italian to invent the Microchip (Federico Faggin).
@@solinvictus1234 These are all good moves by Italy, though not really by Leonardo. But full self-sufficiency is a never ending road. We can always nitpick about components of components - never the less, they are required, all the way down to raw resources. The obvious thing is to stockpile what you're lacking/can't produce - but what I am interested in is alternative/out-of-the-box/supporting strategies. As to the inventions - do remember Faggin was working for fairchild/intel when he made his most impactful inventions ;)
Cause they have guided ammos. So less missiles waste, so more cost-effectiveness and more deepness capability (cause they can save missiles to use for serious threats and not smaller ones)
The OTO-Melara 76mm successfully shot down Houthi’s drones in the Red Sea at a distance of about 5Km. There was some criticism about the fact that the ship brought the drone so close compared to an intercept with a missile. However, it is certainly a much less expensive way to do it.
1100m/s doesn't sound so impressive. An M16 has a muzzle velocity of about 980m/s, and an M1 Tank fires at around 1650m/s. And those aren't fired at air targets. It is pretty speedy and it is guided, but it is nowhere near OMGWTF Laserlike muzzle velocities...
The Constellation isn’t based on this platform, it is based on an offer of a Gibbs & Cox design (a US ship design firm) and the Fincantieri shipyard in the Great Lakes’ offer. The Constellation class design itself is mostly based on the Spanish F100 frigate design while incorporating some design features of the French Aquitaine Fremm design. Most people that didn’t follow closely the constellation program from the beginning think like you, that because the US chose the Fincantieri shipyard it means they chose the Italian Fremm, which isn’t the case. The US always prioritise US firms.
Better to say WAS. US navy could have chose to use this hulk and keep the cost very low, they should have done only few modifications to fit their systems. Instead they chose to redesign the whole thing and the cost skyrocketed where also the Congress said to US navy "tf ha e you done!? The ship was there abd ready!" And opened a vigilance commission over the whole process. In few words, US navy due corruption and bad engineering screewed up the class.
@@brunol-p_g8800 First time i read this info on web, all reported, constellation are modified project of the fremm (italy-french), your info came from?
@brunol-p_g8800 What are you talking about? If the F110 is derived from the Harley Burke, they might as well copy it themselves. It's a FREMM, not an F100, Navantia ruled it out at the beginning.
Technically yes, but A) they're being built by Fincantieri USA in Marinette, Wisconsin not in Italy and B) the US Navy made a lot of changes to everything from the systems, weapons, engines and all the way down to the hull itself.
A ship that size should have atleast 32 vls for effective deterrence but sadly it was too big and have a massive number of personnel but too low missile magazine which is not suitable to deploy on a highly contested environment like the south china sea. It may have a powerful radars and sensors but to easy to be overwhelmed by combined drone and missile attack.
It actually has space for 32 VLS cells, but since the Italian Navy doesn't operate in highly contested areas, only 16 cells were mounted. Btw, the 76/62 guns also exist and are capable to operate in a contested space
Italy won't fight China in the ocean. The fundamental mission of the Italian navy is to defend the homeland in the Mediterranean, and the fleet is built around that need. Other missions are possible, but secondary.
@@camillovidani2586 you maybe right but knowing that italy is one of the nato naval powerhouse its navy should be built with flexibility in mind not only focusing on their own mission requirements.
@@kenethantiga2534 Every nation focuses mainly on their mission requirements, Italy should be no less. However its navy is flexible enough to operate anywhere it's needed. This year for example, the carrier Cavour and the FREMM Alpino operated in the Indo-Pacific cross training with allied nations in the area, including Japan and the US, later joined by the multipurpose combat ship Raimondo Montecuccoli that took part in RIMPAC 24. Yearly instead the Italian frigates are attached to NATO CSGs in both the Mediterranean and the Atlantic as an additional layer of defence.
I'm not really shocked. Even as a last-ditch system those things are quickly reaching hypothetical usability when it comes to modern missiles. Sure, having AA that works, as long as you can still make electricity is very comforting, but if it's very unlikely to actually hit an incoming ...
That was the original idea, but the Navy made changes to pretty much everything from the systems, weapons, engines and all the way down to the hull itself.
Export version isn't as good as Italian version. Russia has far better ships and missiles and really doesn't need to copy tech. Maybe the excellent 76mm could be interesting.
I think a trend will be to avoid American involvement at any cost due to the veto powers we like to hold over use of our weapons even if you pay for em.
will Spaghetti be served onboard her? will Croissants be served for breakfast? but the two most important questions: 1. will she be capable in near-peer conflicts (not just sandal-wearing opponent environment). and 2. who made a sh*tload of money making her?
@@JK-dv3qe no, italian and french missile are inferior to us one, no one know about the "propaganda spec" of cinese missile, on paper they are superior. 2) Leonardo
The first answer to your comment is being disingeneous and incorrect. 1. Yes, the Italian technology on this ships is some of the best in the naval sector. The Aster missile family is also as capabe as the American SM with exceptions such as the SM-6 2. Fincantieri (Shipbuilder) and Leonardo (Defense and Aerospace company) are the main contractors that built the ships and the systems on board.
Finally someone who competently illustrates in detail a frigate like the FREMM. I am a former officer of the Italian Air Force, with a passion for the military world, and I recognize in your professionalism a soldier with a lot of experience. Great work, keep it up...!!! Technologies already developed on other naval units, such as the Multipurpose Offshore Patrol Boats (PPA) of Revel's Thaon class, have been channeled into the 2 new FREMM EVOs. The expected doubling of the number of launchers (up to four in total for 32 missiles) will be able to be exploited more effectively also with a view to obtaining a land-based deep-strike capability.
Non e' il numero dei mezzi navali e terrestri che rendono grande una Nazione, bensi' la mentalita' dei suoi cittadini.Da Ex militare e dopo aver visto in prima persona all'interno le nostre istituzioni,non mi meraviglia che la stragrande maggioranza e' nata e cresciuta senza alcun valore,senza una vera e propria identita'.
Imagine telling a WW2 tank driver that someday the Italians would have a 127mm gun that fires self guiding rounds at 32 rpm.
For 40km too at a rapid rate.
For 120km in the next block 1
And 155mm guided shells also on their Pzh2000 artillery...cause yes, they have also guided 155mm Vulcano shells. A derivation of the 127mm Vulcano guided shells.
By the way also their 76mm are guided: 76mm Strales ammo.
Imagine telling a WW2 battleship captain that someday the biggest gun in western navies would be the 127 mm gun and the warships would have very little armour. Well, on the other hand, there are anti-ship and land-attack cruise missiles which can strike very far and very precisely.
Try and imagine telling that to a roman centurion :) yeah baby, civilization!
Thanks for reporting on this beautiful ship.
A small correction: the DART ammunition has an official range of "over 8km", not 5km.
In the Red Sea, it shot down Houthi drones at 6km, sparing precious Aster missiles.
The Aster is also combat proven: the French shot down Houthi ballistic missiles with it.
So did the British
Correction to the correction, during the engagement in the red sea the dart ammunition were not used, the classic oto none guided proximity fuse were used, the dart ammunition was born to counter high supersonic manuvering targets, the good "old" oto ammunition can already deal with supersonic or at least highly subsonic targets and are much more cost effective than the aster or the ram etc
@asganaway And according to insiders all shot first time with normal ammunition......
That 76 with dart rounds sounded insane.
in the red sea it shot down 4 drones, 1 over a distance of 6km, that's impressive, it cost a fraction of a missile! And I saw their new FREMM EVO, or the new DDX classe destroyer, they are really top notch! Happy we will have 2 of them and PPA ships!
Italy is working on FREMM 2.0, the evolved version of Bergamini class.
FREMM EVO , yes
CODLAG means Combined Diesel Electric and Gas. Ships peculiarity is to have 2 big electric motors coaxial to the shafts that allow to operate silently at a speed of 15 knots on electric motors only in AS mode. Diesel electric hybrid mode allow to use diesels as generator and keep propulsion on electric to save fuel and achieve good range. The lack of a second (or more powerful) gas turbine allow for a maximum speed of only 27 knots. For sure ASW version has a VDS, should be a CAPTAS 4 from Thales. (Maybe the GP version has it too?) It should be available on the EVO. Just behind the 16 VLS block there is space for another 16. EVO should come with them already installed. Also will come out with anti-ballistic capability. Other ships can be retrofitted with 16 VLS module in the bow. There is a middle ship "add-on" block of 32 VLS at study for the PPA, probably there is one secretly under development also for this one.
Beware that the declaredl maximum speed of an italian FREMM is the value with propulsion using the gas turbine.
The one using also the electric motors is not declared.
To note that italian FREMMs have variable pitch propellers, while french ones have fixed pitch propellers.
Italian FREMM are CODLAG, french ones CODLOG.
A great video, olny three error:
The ASW FREMMs are equipped with 4 Milas and 4 Teseo 2/A missiles;
The Italian FREMMs are equipped with 3-cell torpedo launchers unlike the French FREMM which uses the 2-cell version.
The Dart ammunition have a muzzle velocity of 1200m/s and 8Km max range against air target
Now that's a nice damn Warship!!
It's just like the american FREMM Constellation class - except it actually works. Because some id*ot did not change every part of the design and sensor suite. Imagine how that works...
@@texasranger24 Exactly!
The military is required by law to use made in America systems and sub systems. Also the ship must be fabricated and assembled in the US. Of course congress made those laws.
Was going to type this! Our naval procurement is male bovine fertilizer!
To be fair, you can't say it doesn't work, since no Constellation
has hit the water yet.
Sure, ruining the whole idea of using a "ready to built" design
by changing virtually everything WAS dumb,
but construction efficiency and operational capability are two
very different things.
@@A_Haunted_Pancake Given it has not launched its pretty safe to say they are currently combat effective
love to see a ship brief on a italian navy craft, cant wait for the orizzonte class destroyer, on which the us navy constellation class will be based
The Constellation-class is based on the ASW version of the Carlo Bergamini-class frigate.
The FREMM has evolved into the EVO configuration, both France and Italy have ordered i believe 2 each recently
only italian, it's a development made by fincantieri for MM, with the PPA/MPCS EVO
France havent order any new Freem and are not working on an upgrade design as for now.
I toured one of the saw variants it was very nice. They even had a fish tank in the wardroom with a sunken submarine and a gold fish.
Take a look at Italian landing helicopter dock Trieste. 3 76mm guns and vls.
A lot to like about these ships. I like the idea of two cannons on a ship, maybe USVs will bring more auto-cannon? One concern is serving aboard a 144m stealth ship may be almost like serving on a sub vs the older ships I served on. Thanks Chief, great breakdown. 🇦🇺 ⚓
The EVO version, aside the different radar and Sylver 70 launch system, will drop the 127mm for another 76mm due to the perceived change in threat. With the Ukrainian war going on, and the troubles in the red sea, the 76mm has proven to be an excellent and cheap anti missile/drone weapon, which does not requires the ship to go back in port for reloading.
the 127/62 is an excellent weapon, with top Vulcano ammunitions, but ships are deemed too vulnerable to saturation attacks, and a second 76mm can truly make the difference between life and death.
I think the USN made a huge mistake in trading the original 76mm for the 57mm on the Constellation: the much longer range and fragmentation volume of the 76mm offer better protection from modern subsonic weapons then the 57mm despite the relatively slower RPM.
The larger warhead also offers enough space for a guide system and an effective warhead, still being much cheaper to expend then RIMM anti air missiles.
Seems like Italy is doing well.
Some other correction:
The dart sistem should have 15 km range (confirmed by an old Leonardo video).
The AW101 can carry up to 4 MU90.
Btw very cool video, I hope You will cover more Italian vessels in the future! 👍
I read somewhere that Norway has ordered 6 Bergamini / Constellation class frigates from Fincantier
Bergamini is the mother hull of Constellation class. However, according to Rear Adm. Kevin Smith's brief in American Society for Naval Engineers, the so call "85% common" between FREMM and Constellation class actually mans "functional design" instead of "detail design", which is pretty pointless, because the meaningful common is fall in "detail design", which means how you implemented these functions. As to "detail design", it was far less than 85% in the first place even before Fincantieri won the bid.
the design, the hull and more are one of the most important things, that's a typical US reaction when you don't wanna admit other countries are better, it makes no sense, you think the US would pay license fee for a few % of ITA design? beside the fact that Leonardo has now even a shipyard in the US to build it? The new FREMM EVO, DDX destroyer are marvel of engineering, the guided ammo has taken down few drones in the read sea, 1 over a distance of 6km, the US needs missile for that. This mindset is the end innovation, and the way you manage projects! Navy Admiral Charles A. Richard said: "we have a system in place in which Senior military and political officials switch to suppliers and vice versa. Their decision are based on relationship and not on what we really need". This was the reason for the failures like Zumwalt and many other projects that you now have to watch for foreign supplier to keep up with China.
the 76mm round is battle tested aswell, in the red sea
8 FREMM in service + 2 FREMM under sea trials (Spartaco Schergat and Emilio Bianchi) + 2 Evo ordered to Fincantieri.
No, the 2 Fremms sold to Egypt will be replaced by 2 Fremms already built and in trial testing and almost ready for delivery, while the 2 Fremm Evos are under construction and will be 2 more units so we will have 12 fremm, + 2 PPA full version and 5 light version +, and 2 PPA evo with 64 vls to build ... in total 19 frigates
@@met71metaldetector55rileggiti quello che ho scritto. Le due che verranno consegnate a breve, e che sostituiscono le due vendute, si chiamano sempre "Bianchi"e "Schergat" e sono nella versione GPe. Stai dicendo la stessa cosa.
Can you do a brief on a Gowind 2500/3100?
Great video! On a side note I understand that "Fincantieri" is not easy to say for a non native speaker. :)
incredible!! i liked your video=)
Italy is also building 2 PPA evo to replace those sold to Polynesia, they are equipped with 64 vls also for long range ground attack! and in 2025 the construction of 2 DDX 15000t will begin at the moment we are talking about 80 vls but too big to be so few. the 180m hull will also be used by the U.S. DGG as done for the Constellation frigates
6:40 he not only desribes a CODAG system instead of CODLAG but he also says its 1 diesel turbine and 4 diesel generators....last i checked the lm2500 was a gas turbine hence the G in CODLAG!! He also leaves out the fact that the diesel doesnt drive the propulsion but charges 2 electric motors and those turn the driveshaft hence the DL instead of just D!
1100 meters/s is about mach 3.2 muzzle velocity!
the red sea was a good promotion, they took down drones over a distance of 6km!! no need for expansive missiles. We will have the same system on our GER F127 frigate!
Don't know if you are still looking, but......I found the dolphin cry movie, WITH subtitles...Great content btw!
Can someone explain to me why there is a 3 inch gun (76mm) and a 5 inch (127mm) gun on the majority of ships but there is no 4 inch gun? I feel like frigates should get 4 inch guns. Destroyers/cruisers 5 inch. Corvettes etc should have 3 inch
Any ships named after battles? If so can i recommend taffy 3
Taffy 3 was a battle group wasn’t it? And an American one at that
Also the Augusta Westland helo, is also made by Leonardo in the U.K., I may be wrong but I don’t think are in the MBDA consortium.
All the European Agusta-Westland are made in Italy, only the AW101 (the Merlin) is made in UK for previous agreements of the old holdings (Agusta and Westland)
@@solinvictus1234It Is also manufactured at Vergiate in Italy.
24:28 the NH90 has a generally very bad reputation in terms of its serviceability/reliability.
It is however not generally understood that some countries are very happy with them. There are many different versions and afaik no 2 versions (or country’s versions) are the same
The Italian NH90's are locally built by Leonardo. No issues-no problems. Of course, they are expensive to buy and mantain if You are not part of the consortium. And if we are speaking about australians, the australian military procurement Is a joke...they have problems with all kinds of equipments 😊
@ it isn’t unique to Australia with regard to NH90
NH90 was fundamentally designed so that they inherently were individualised to meet different countries requirements. No 2 countries aircraft are exactly the same which then causes serviceability and maintainability issues. There is an army/air force model and a naval model. But both models are offered with 2 different engine types. There was also sub models within that. For example, the Swedish ones have a higher cabin
No, Australia just complained about any non US made system because of corruption.
US bought functionaries talked down everything non americans and talked up future purchases of american systems.
Thats how you ended up with aukus as well, which means you get nothing and still pay for it.
@@tigersilberhannes9153I’m referring to NH90 issues
It isn’t just Australia retiring them early - Norway and Sweden too
the 50 shots of the 127mm cannon are those ready to fire..underneath it has a 2 automatic reserve and there was talk of 500 shots the real number is secret. the 80 km volcano projectile is the one for export sale for the 155mm land artillery with that long barrel the 127 naval minimum reaches 150km and the explosive capacity is equal to the 155mm terrestrial. for helicopters they now use the Marte missile and it is said that it has more than 100km of range always semi-performing.
11:45 Slight oversight, the slide says 300 and you say 30.
That mast screams stealth lol
Not the greatest design feature, for sure,
but the worst angles (for & aft) ARE more or less covered
up by the bigger mast and exhaust structure.
What he describes is CODAG, this is CODLAG which means combined diesel-electric and gas meaning the diesel charges electric motors which those are hooked to and power the drive shaft with gas added for full/burst speed! The diesel does drive the shaft in a CODAG system which is what he described but in a CODLAG it charges electric motors and those turn the drive shaft. Cant believe hed mess up on something so simple.
Also he says 4 diesel generators and 1 diesel turbine, it's a gas turbine isn't it? Hence the G for gas in the propulsion method
Thah- les
its spelled "Carabiniere"
For me in comparison to other asian and europ. constructions the weaponry with only 4 ASM launcher and 16 VLS cells seems very light.
16 VLS on the anti-submarine warfare variant and 32 VLS on the anti-air warfare variant. Italy has 2 air warfare destroyers that have 48 VLS with space for an additional 16 VLS for a total of 64 cells.
It has 8 asm. It's pretty well explained in the video.
15:55 Not 30Hz. It is from 30MHz to 30GHz.
✌🎄
Great ship but the Europeans across the board are going cheap on their missile magazine capacity . They can’t hold their ground if sailing at a contested area. 16 SAMs and 4 Aswrocs is ridiculous for a ship this size and cost.
16 is the current minimum, in an actual contested area the ships would have another 16 cells added, raising it to 32. In addition to that, the 76/62 is capable to eliminate any incoming threats without even using the guided DART munitions.
The two future FREMM EVO will have double that space for VLS cells, raising it to 64. But nothing is confirmed yet.
You didn't heard a lot about 76mm Strales dart and 127mm Vulcano guided ammos i bet...
Expecially the 127mm Vulcano guided rounds are guided minimissiles with the same missile precision, capable to hit anything and even doing coastal land attack.
@thecommentaryking that's for PPA EVO, FREEM EVO will remain with 32 vls.
Dont understand why modern warships are being built with such small VLS systems, the whole benefit of VLS systems is to allow multiple launches in rapid succession and flexibility in missile type, all of this is lost if you only have a few cells. Not to mention given the difficulty reloading them when away from bases it severely limits the strategic flexibility of where the veasel can operate without potentially being left extremely vulnerable during the transit home.
To be fair, the number of cells doesn't have to = the number
of ready-to-fire missiles. It just tells you the number of the
biggest missiles you can fit.
With many a modern SAMs you can fit more than 1 in a cell.
Cause the Italians use laser/IR/GPS 76mm and 127mm guided ammo and shells since 10 years now that work flawlessly, capable to intercept anything. So no missile wasting and cost-effectivened.
The main issue I have with this ship and most European ships in general is the incredible small magazine depth for their missiles. Especially VLS.
Only 16 on a 6000+ ton general purpose ship. It doesnt even quadpack ESSM.
I'd say this is partially offset by the fact in general most European warships aren't meant for worldwide long term deployments the same way a Burke would be, though a lot of it is also straight up cost
They are all getting upgraded to 32 in the future. New FREMM variants will already have 32 from the factory.
I agree. But it's "fitted for" 32 VLS.
And the DART system offsets the need for more missiles.
But they should really do something about the Sylver VLS tubes. As you say, they should be able to quad-pack. Italy already has the CAMM missiles for that role.
@@jorehirAn adaptation to add the CAMM system to the Sylver VLS cells in in the works and will probably enter service in the following years
@@jorehirthe primary armament of frigates are anti submarine focused. It's not a destroyer, missile capability is self defence focused. If you over arm a frigate, you may as well build a destroyer. But the point of frigates is cost efficiency, and a lot of naval roles are unglamorous escort duty which is a waste of a destroyers time.
I'm not sure how the concept of self-sufficiency would work out in practice. For one, the electronics ( which is rapidly increasing in complexity and importance) will always require outside parts. I'm sure it's a good direction to go, but it needs to be complemented with other measures.
Just take a look at russia now - they still use a lot of western electronics in their gear, there's not even a glimmer of any home production for that on the horizon. So they have to bend over backwards to get those parts and the supply is limited and expensive. Not even their brother-in-red can do all that much about it.
Leonardo is the world's 6th most powerful consortium, where the first 5 are all us consortium.
I bet that the Italians are pretty much self-sufficent for anything they need.
And regarding the "western electronics" both the US Predator and Reaper drones alongside the whole UK Merlin fleet, the Gripen last version are equipped with Leonardo Electronic warfare systems.
So who do the "western electronics" are fundamentally ALL the western countries.
@@solinvictus1234 Problem with "western electronics" is they are designed in the west. Not manufactured. Does Leonardo have it's own semiconductor fab? Passive components production lines? What about all the other niche widgets required for prodction of PCBs etc? All of these are usually imported from asia. Which is a long way away and has it's own problems brewing.
PS. How do you figure Leonardo is the "worlds 6th most powerful consortium"? By market cap it doesn't even make it into the top 200...
@@GalvayraPHX - Does Leonardo have it's own semiconductor fab?
Yes they have, in Novara, the Silicon Box.
- Passive components production lines?
Yes they have in Catania, the STMicroelectronics.
- What about all the other niche widgets required for prodction of PCBs etc?
Yes they have, ALBA PCB Group, Cistelaier SpA, Cisel s.r.l., Telma Circuiti, Baselectron s.r.l.
Italy invented the PC back in the days and today the nanosatellites, is top notch on self production of microchips and semiconductors, not talking about that was an Italian to invent the Microchip (Federico Faggin).
@@solinvictus1234 These are all good moves by Italy, though not really by Leonardo. But full self-sufficiency is a never ending road. We can always nitpick about components of components - never the less, they are required, all the way down to raw resources. The obvious thing is to stockpile what you're lacking/can't produce - but what I am interested in is alternative/out-of-the-box/supporting strategies.
As to the inventions - do remember Faggin was working for fairchild/intel when he made his most impactful inventions ;)
I always pronounced THALES as Tal -Is. Rather than as the first letters of THe whALES.
16 VLS is miniscule for a ship of this size. The Italians prioritised having TWO large guns, not sure why - it isn't WW2 anymore. 1 is sufficient.
Cause they have guided ammos. So less missiles waste, so more cost-effectiveness and more deepness capability (cause they can save missiles to use for serious threats and not smaller ones)
Italian FREEMs are mainly focused on ASW not anti air warfare.
The OTO-Melara 76mm successfully shot down Houthi’s drones in the Red Sea at a distance of about 5Km. There was some criticism about the fact that the ship brought the drone so close compared to an intercept with a missile. However, it is certainly a much less expensive way to do it.
1100m/s doesn't sound so impressive. An M16 has a muzzle velocity of about 980m/s, and an M1 Tank fires at around 1650m/s.
And those aren't fired at air targets.
It is pretty speedy and it is guided, but it is nowhere near OMGWTF Laserlike muzzle velocities...
@@Chrinik
They can pull 40G maneuvers over 40km or more depending on the variants, they are more maneuverable than most missiles.
@@CaptainGrief66 That's fine, nobody was talking about the rounds maneuverability tho, so I'm not sure why you bring that up.
@@Chrinik
Lower speed means they can maneuver better
@@CaptainGrief66 Did you not watch the video?
FYI: Thales is pronounced TALIS 🙂
No mention of the USN Constellation Class, which is based on this platform ?
The Constellation isn’t based on this platform, it is based on an offer of a Gibbs & Cox design (a US ship design firm) and the Fincantieri shipyard in the Great Lakes’ offer.
The Constellation class design itself is mostly based on the Spanish F100 frigate design while incorporating some design features of the French Aquitaine Fremm design.
Most people that didn’t follow closely the constellation program from the beginning think like you, that because the US chose the Fincantieri shipyard it means they chose the Italian Fremm, which isn’t the case. The US always prioritise US firms.
Better to say WAS. US navy could have chose to use this hulk and keep the cost very low, they should have done only few modifications to fit their systems.
Instead they chose to redesign the whole thing and the cost skyrocketed where also the Congress said to US navy "tf ha e you done!? The ship was there abd ready!" And opened a vigilance commission over the whole process.
In few words, US navy due corruption and bad engineering screewed up the class.
@@brunol-p_g8800 First time i read this info on web, all reported, constellation are modified project of the fremm (italy-french), your info came from?
@brunol-p_g8800 What are you talking about? If the F110 is derived from the Harley Burke, they might as well copy it themselves. It's a FREMM, not an F100, Navantia ruled it out at the beginning.
Are they building some for the US? I may be confused with another company..
Technically yes, but A) they're being built by Fincantieri USA in Marinette, Wisconsin not in Italy and B) the US Navy made a lot of changes to everything
from the systems, weapons, engines and all the way down to the hull itself.
A ship that size should have atleast 32 vls for effective deterrence but sadly it was too big and have a massive number of personnel but too low missile magazine which is not suitable to deploy on a highly contested environment like the south china sea. It may have a powerful radars and sensors but to easy to be overwhelmed by combined drone and missile attack.
It actually has space for 32 VLS cells, but since the Italian Navy doesn't operate in highly contested areas, only 16 cells were mounted.
Btw, the 76/62 guns also exist and are capable to operate in a contested space
Italy won't fight China in the ocean. The fundamental mission of the Italian navy is to defend the homeland in the Mediterranean, and the fleet is built around that need. Other missions are possible, but secondary.
@@camillovidani2586 you maybe right but knowing that italy is one of the nato naval powerhouse its navy should be built with flexibility in mind not only focusing on their own mission requirements.
@@kenethantiga2534 Every nation focuses mainly on their mission requirements, Italy should be no less. However its navy is flexible enough to operate anywhere it's needed.
This year for example, the carrier Cavour and the FREMM Alpino operated in the Indo-Pacific cross training with allied nations in the area, including Japan and the US, later joined by the multipurpose combat ship Raimondo Montecuccoli that took part in RIMPAC 24.
Yearly instead the Italian frigates are attached to NATO CSGs in both the Mediterranean and the Atlantic as an additional layer of defence.
No phalanx or goal keeper CWIS?
I'm not really shocked. Even as a last-ditch system
those things are quickly reaching hypothetical usability
when it comes to modern missiles.
Sure, having AA that works, as long as you can still make electricity is very comforting, but if it's very unlikely to actually hit an incoming ...
The ciws for the Italian Navy is the 76, Italians never believed to small caliber ciws, with very good reasons.
Did You skip the part about guided 76 mm anty missile rounds?
Like most western naval vessels, it seems incredibly under armed.
Isn't this very similar to the frigate they are building for the US except ours will have more weapons?
That was the original idea, but the Navy made changes to pretty much
everything from the systems, weapons, engines and all the way down
to the hull itself.
Why in the hell were these frigates exported to egypt? THey want the tech to go in russia hands?
just the ship, the sensitive tecnologies weren't on board, also egypt already has some "western" weapon system like the Apache
Also, the French will sell any weapon system to your grann grann if she has the cash.🤑
France sold Egypt 2 Mistral class ships a few years back
The Egyptian Navy doesn't seem to be doing too shabby
Export version isn't as good as Italian version. Russia has far better ships and missiles and really doesn't need to copy tech. Maybe the excellent 76mm could be interesting.
Russians have far better ships then this. It dosnt even have a hypersonics on board. And its a damn frigate!
I think a trend will be to avoid American involvement at any cost due to the veto powers we like to hold over use of our weapons even if you pay for em.
That's fine our allies need to get stronger and have the ability to produce their own weapons anyway.
The US has satraps, not allies.
will Spaghetti be served onboard her? will Croissants be served for breakfast? but the two most important questions: 1. will she be capable in near-peer conflicts (not just sandal-wearing opponent environment). and 2. who made a sh*tload of money making her?
@@JK-dv3qe no, italian and french missile are inferior to us one, no one know about the "propaganda spec" of cinese missile, on paper they are superior. 2) Leonardo
@@imyourlol Leonardo di Caprio??? I KNEW IT!!!!!
@@imyourlol So if it's not American it's useless in a pier conflict?
*edit: peer
The first answer to your comment is being disingeneous and incorrect.
1. Yes, the Italian technology on this ships is some of the best in the naval sector. The Aster missile family is also as capabe as the American SM with exceptions such as the SM-6
2. Fincantieri (Shipbuilder) and Leonardo (Defense and Aerospace company) are the main contractors that built the ships and the systems on board.
Ah yes the OSINT secrets...lol
I believe it’s pronounced jigga-hertz