The first officer is clearly a young fellow and this was probably his first emergency. You can hear a bit of quiver in his voice at the beginning of the incident but by the time he was working with the controller to get set up for final you can hear him realizing that pilots can rely on their training and proficiency to deal with non-normal situations and make it home alive. Congrats, sir. Well done.
The A team was on duty for sure. ATC probably does not get much practice directing no-gyros vectors, but the controller was masterful. As a retired avionics type, I would be super interested in knowing just what the hell went wrong with that airplane. It sounded a lot worse than just having the IRS locked in attitude mode.
I'd imagine the entire team at JFK / NY Center / etc in that region is the A team, 24/7. That airspace, and the one around the Capitol, are both so insanely sensitive to national security concerns, and JFK/LGA/EWR is even more congested. I would suspect only the best of the best make the cut to sit in those seats. Everything in that region is just turned up to 11/10.
Hope the FAA does a deep look at how the heck a commercial passenger jet looses redundant systems. That failure on an Atlantic crossing out of radar coverage or even in weather, could likely be catastrophic. The stupid thing is, a $500 adsb receiver with adhars connected to the pilots ipad would be a valid backup.
You can hear a little bit of nervousness in the (I am guessing) young FO's voice at first, but he handled things very well. By the end of the video his voice is very calm and stoic. Talk about some insane on the job training. Good work to all involved.
I was about to comment more or less the same thing. He is nervous, up until the point they get visual with the runway, I’d say. We’ve done similar training in the simulator, and you do feel helpless, in IMC, with limited to none accurate navigational situation. I have to add : I’d resort to my EFB (electronic flight bag, e.g. an iPad) with moving map, in that situation. The GPS position information PLUS a keen ATC would make it much less stressful. Don’t know if these guys had access to this, probably not, from the heading they went to (southerly) after being given a 220 degrees vector from ATC. Anyhow, pilots and ATC made it work, and that’s all that matters in the end.
@@vbertrand Also him saying 73 pax, 76 flight crew makes me think this might have been a checkride for the flight crew, so extra nerves aswell on that front. All around great job by the crew and ATC
Spectacular performance by him. I could imagine him sitting right up in his chair just fully focused on detailed precise and concise instructions. Just spectacular
I am retired senior air traffic controller n watching this video from Mombasa, Kenya,East Afrika. This was excellent job by both pilots n duty controller. .They deserve kudos 👏 . .
Army atc has to train emergency approaches for monthly currency. So No - gyros are easy....(not to say game like) but it does make it a fun challenge to count your turn seconds and get them bang on course haha.
@will gaukler "Standard rate" is what we fly in IMC conditions. It is 3deg/second. This is so a 180 degree turn takes 1 minute and atc can accurately get us on headings using time. We use the turn coordinator (a flight instrument that is not powered by the same system as the other gyro instruments) to accomplish a standard rate turn.
Wow! Relying on a call of 'stop turn' to get your heading... I would love to learn more about how the gyros failed. Old airplanes had magnetic compasses which while needing to be re-calibrated regularly against geographic north would be helpful in a situation like this to at least get a relative heading for each turn.
Old? How old you talking? If you are referring to the Heading Indicator on a steam gauge aircraft, it is powered by a vacuum. If you lose the vacuum then you lose your heading indicator, but you are right that you can use the standard old fashioned magnetic compass that bounces around on the dashboard area. 3 degrees per second with a standard rate turn using the electrically driven turn coordinator will give you a 360 turn in 2 minutes. One of the biggest common errors when you lose a system (vacuum) is that you dont want to admit it....and that can lead to disaster and often does if you are flying in IMC. Also dont every become so dependent on your autopilot. There will come a day when you are going to have to maneuver and HAND fly an instrument approach in IMC. if I confirm that I have instrument systems failures, the autopilot gets immediately disengaged and I hand fly using partial panel skills. Often easier said than done tho. So thats why its important to stay fresh with hand flying (without autopilot), and practice partial panel exercises frequently too.
This is encouraging. I was almost expecting a clown show, but everyone involved handled this very professionally and, all things considered, calmly and deliberately, with clear coms - particularly the ATC team. Amidst all the news noise suggesting incompetence in commercial aviation it's comforting to see something like this. It never developed into an actual threat to safety but it could easily have gone off the tracks. Kudos to the presumably young FO - particularly nice to see newbees acting diligently and relatively calmly under the circumstances. This experience has undoubtedly given that FO some valuable first-hand experience that will likely save lives in the future.
As an IFR student pilot my CFI hammered incessantly on no-gyro flying, relying on the compass to navigate. Still remember Accelerate North, Decelerate South.
Its funny (not really) that we can fly partial panel when our CFII covers up the vacuum instruments and tells you that you just lost your vacuum, BUT what if he didnt tell us? What if they just failed, and all the while you still think they are working??? The takeaway is that we all need to train on constantly verifying that the instruments AGREE with each other. If they stop agreeing with each other, then we need to be trained to recognize that and make our own conclusion that one of the systems (vacuum or pitot static) has failed. Once we verify, then we go into partial panel mode. Our CFII wont be there in real IMC to tell us that the system has failed....someday when it really happens.... Food for thought. Fly safe..!
this might be the first time ever nyc atc wished someone would talk slightly slower on the radio... great handling by everyone, glad everything worked out!
I am very impressed with all players in this event. During my IFR training in the late 70s I did several Precision no-gyro approaches into KCHS (with instructor on board). It is very reassuring to have no-gyro approaches available. While listening to this I felt myself tensing up a little. Congratulations to pilots and controllers alike.
I crashed in a sea plane taking off from Santa Catalina Island in 1979. The plane sank quickly but we all survived. In 2003 a flight landing in Mallorca, Spain couldn't slow down for some reason so we landed at something like full speed. That was interesting because you're used to how fast a plane should be going when you land. And we were going twice that speed. The applause after that plane finally stopped - and it took a while to stop - was uproarious. I don't fly much anymore.
This channel is awesome lol just found it like last week and have watched hours and hours worth of vids. Love the detailed descriptions at the beginning, keep em comin!
Back in the day our local controllers appreciated the opportunity to practice these no gyro approaches so those of us flying for practice approaches would often put the discs on the instruments and ask for them. In this age of glass panels and gps these kinds of skills are becoming a lost art. My guess is there was a grey bearded veteran controller in the room who lent his skills to the task. Bravo to all involved in this for bringing the 73 souls home safe.
That was amazing! You can hear the stress of the 1st officer when they where 4 miles out and had no visual of the run way. Everyone was straight up bad asses.
No matter what plane I crewed I always carried and used a full-function hand-held GPS regardless. If the panel goes black or a discrepancy between instruments I can still navigate and safely fly with the little GPS. Cheap insurance and workload reducer. I also carry a personal PLB so a satellite can tell responders I need them and they know where I am. Modern tech can be a life saver for cheap.
Although this may sound like a good idea it is likely probably a violation of SOP at a lot of large companies. Anything that isn’t FAA approved is generally a PED and forbidden. A handheld GPS would have likely gotten them in trouble here. Flying the standby attitude instrument off of ATC vectors is the correct thing to do.
That's how it's done. The ATC was so calm and proficient , it sounds like he could have been playing a game of bridge and sipping tea while talking them through their turns.
In crew environments theres the PF and PNF, pilot flying and pilot not flying. The pilot not is the one on radios. At the end and 3:10 you can hear the older senior Capt jumping on the radio. He's the pilot/ hero.
Yeah, the PNF had a slight speech impediment, so the fact he was able to talk that fast and that clear must've taken LOADS of work on his part. Super impressed.
@@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq There are no "heroes", the Captain and First officer worked together to bring the aircraft down safely. Emergency situations aren't handled by one crew member, they're handled by all.
@@morerightrudder9742 the actual person "flying" this plane, let alone in imc near dark is "the hero" with the kool calm nerves. The approach controller would be the other hero. The PNF is just there for back up. Pls get 15,000 hrs in a 121/135 environment as a pilot and has had the unfortunate experience to live through three incidents then you can talk. CRM is only as good as the PF's experience.
this is probably the first time I heard of actual no-gyro vectors instructions. This makes things more clear... now I wonder how those Radar Approaches works...
There's a great old black and white movie set around the Berlin Airlift. The radar approach controllers had to talk the C-54s down the glideslope and center line beam using a 2D oscilloscope. It isn't exactly relevant to this event but, even being out of date, really shows clearly the principles of a radar vectored approach. Back then, all the way to the threshold. The fog could be so bad even taxiing required a "Follow Me" vehicle to guide them on the ground. I wish I could remember the name of that movie.
I live on Long Island. Right where this guy turned around is McArthur airport in Islip. They could of landed there, but since there was no emergency I guess they didn't need to. Excellent job guiding them in!
@@buckmurdock2500 Didn’t seem like they had their flight director. The manual for the RJ says that the loss of the FMC would result if you lose gyros. They would have basic pitch and roll displayed. That being said, you might be correct as I am not a commercial pilot. Still wouldn’t want to be in that position in IMC with a low ceiling.
I've never actually heard a no gyro approach given. That whole thing was a pain in the butt! I've never flown the CRJ, so I'm curious what all went wrong. It sounds like they were down to backup instruments only, which would likely mean a failure of multiple systems. Not even getting the ILS makes it even weirder. Either way, top notch work by everyone.
@@Snaproll47518 If one takes off in ATT mode then switches to NAV mode it can take up to 10 min for the system to align, in the interim there would be HDG and NAV flags. In the AHRS aircraft such a switch is required when departing runway with known magnetic anomaly. Interesting how there was nothing wrong on T.O. and about the point the switch would be made they reported loss of nav and hdg.
@@buckmurdock2500 I was never around AHRS but had a lot of experience with Honeywell IRU and ADIRU platforms. It's not possible to align inertial platforms with the aircraft in motion. Selection of ATT is an abnormal procedure after loss of NAV function. Losing all three platforms, supplied by independent power supplies, at the same time is improbable. Finger trouble is more probable.
Always thought there was a mechanical compass in the cockpit. Either way, this pilot probably dug out his boyscout compass and put it in his flight case for next time 😂
Not really sure how this could have happened but great just by Approach to get them non-gyro vectors all the way until they were in sight of field. They don't have a ton of extra time.
I have only a casual interest in aviation YT video, but the ATC in this episode would have to be the clearest I have yet heard. Likewise the crew in response.
Great video as always. I find a bit funny (though I know it is no fun to anyone in that airplane) that same situation happened to another Delta (Endeavor ) at LGA a few month back. Both were well-handled by ATC and crew.
Amazing that I'm 3 minutes into this and they haven't even declared pan pan yet. Those are some smooth operators, id have at least declared pan pan as soon as I lost the nav
great teamwork all round, props to the clealy young FO who kept calm and in control and to the captain for an outstanding performance pobably just using the little backup atificial horison through clouds like a boss, my hats off to everyone fantastic work!
Omg I could hear his voice shaking, but that’s not to say the Captain wasn’t a little unnerved as well. He just has more experience hiding those emotions…wow they did a great job!
Glad it worked out. I was confused as to the extent of the navigation failure. Was it the FMS, the FMS and VOR/ILS receivers or both plus the attitude and directional gyros? The crew was accepting vectors, were they using the whiskey compass? Without any further discussion the controller started issuing no-gyro instructions. Kudos for that. I read about no-gyro approaches back in instrument ground school and practiced one before my checkride. Don't think I ever practiced one in the USAF or the airlines. Well done all around.
I'd guess the PFD and MFD's were out so they were using that little standby instrument for attitude, altitude and speed (but not ILS or VOR), plus the wobbly wet compass which is why they accepted vectors but also were fine with no gyro instructions.
Is it common for both pilot flying and pilot monitoring to both be on the radios? I would expect to only hear pilot monitoring but you could clearly hear two different voices at various times
Wow, loss of navs on climbout from JFK, then a No Gyro Vector to return, and a "negative runway in sight at 5 mile" callout. It all settles out at 3 miles. That's some mad skill !!
Can any ATC people chime in on the process of going from vectoring an ILS to final, having the aircraft intercept the LOC when they realize their equipment isn't working, and then switching over to PAR vectors? It seems like this controller was able to jump into that very quickly.
aviate -navigate- communicate. So basically less work, riiiight?
😂😂😂😂😂
You Sir, win the internet for today 😜.
You just me snort my coffee in Starbucks. I doff my cap to you good sir!
This comment is _underated_ 👍🏿
The first officer is clearly a young fellow and this was probably his first emergency. You can hear a bit of quiver in his voice at the beginning of the incident but by the time he was working with the controller to get set up for final you can hear him realizing that pilots can rely on their training and proficiency to deal with non-normal situations and make it home alive. Congrats, sir. Well done.
I thought the same thing.
Yeah, it was kind of noticeable how calm the captain sounded compared to how nervous the first officer sounded on the radio.
@@seanpellegrino2989 It comes with experience. That’s the whole reason there’s still two pilots up there. I remain confident in American pilots.
That’s what happens when you lower the minimums and go from the right seat instructing in a Skyhawk to the right seat of a jet…
@@Captndarty If it bothers you go practice CRM. These guys got through it, so can you.
The A team was on duty for sure. ATC probably does not get much practice directing no-gyros vectors, but the controller was masterful. As a retired avionics type, I would be super interested in knowing just what the hell went wrong with that airplane. It sounded a lot worse than just having the IRS locked in attitude mode.
id bet a lot of money on maintenance error lol
Masterful is the right word indeed. Spectacular job by the controller
I'd imagine the entire team at JFK / NY Center / etc in that region is the A team, 24/7. That airspace, and the one around the Capitol, are both so insanely sensitive to national security concerns, and JFK/LGA/EWR is even more congested. I would suspect only the best of the best make the cut to sit in those seats. Everything in that region is just turned up to 11/10.
Hope the FAA does a deep look at how the heck a commercial passenger jet looses redundant systems. That failure on an Atlantic crossing out of radar coverage or even in weather, could likely be catastrophic. The stupid thing is, a $500 adsb receiver with adhars connected to the pilots ipad would be a valid backup.
@@Searey07 Even google maps on their cellphone is going to be more accurate than no gyro vectors. How did they also lose their backup compass?
The audible relief/excitement in the voice of the FO when the runway was on sight. Wow. And immediately thanked the controllers.
I bet that controller was praying they’d get it in sight too so he could just clear them for the visual and hand them off to tower.
You can hear a little bit of nervousness in the (I am guessing) young FO's voice at first, but he handled things very well. By the end of the video his voice is very calm and stoic. Talk about some insane on the job training. Good work to all involved.
I was about to comment more or less the same thing. He is nervous, up until the point they get visual with the runway, I’d say.
We’ve done similar training in the simulator, and you do feel helpless, in IMC, with limited to none accurate navigational situation.
I have to add : I’d resort to my EFB (electronic flight bag, e.g. an iPad) with moving map, in that situation. The GPS position information PLUS a keen ATC would make it much less stressful. Don’t know if these guys had access to this, probably not, from the heading they went to (southerly) after being given a 220 degrees vector from ATC. Anyhow, pilots and ATC made it work, and that’s all that matters in the end.
@@vbertrand Also him saying 73 pax, 76 flight crew makes me think this might have been a checkride for the flight crew, so extra nerves aswell on that front. All around great job by the crew and ATC
@@tijmenberends242 I was wondering about the flight attendants... 3 crew with passengers is not enough.
Cleared to land on that Greek restaurant. You'll find your gyro once you touch down.
The FAA stopped proficiency training on no-gyro surveillance approaches years ago. Glad to see that this controller still had it!! 👍
Why?
@@cptcrogge My guess:probably something budget related
Spectacular performance by him. I could imagine him sitting right up in his chair just fully focused on detailed precise and concise instructions. Just spectacular
Perhaps this is why there was a change of voice when this controller took over? The first one had a twang in his voice. The second one did not.
@@karend1577 They probably requested someone more proficient at it to take over for the aircraft in distress.
Brilliant work by all, especially the approach controller coming back in
Yeah, what a pro. 😮👏🏻
You could hear the controller's pucker factor go up in his voice when he realized he was basically flying the plane.
I don't think he enjoyed that.
@@slartybarfastb3648 but he did an outstanding job with that. considering the delay he has to work with. mind blowing.
The FO on the radio was brilliant. All were brilliant. Well done.
I am retired senior air traffic controller n watching this video from Mombasa, Kenya,East Afrika. This was excellent job by both pilots n duty controller. .They deserve kudos 👏 .
.
Yeah highly professional
I've only flown C150s so I had never heard of a no-gyros approach. Really impressive. ATC and the pilots really did a professional job.
When training for the instrument rating, practice a few no-gyro approaches.
Only standard-rate and half-standard rate turns apply.
And atc tells you when where and how to turn until you are on the approach.
Army atc has to train emergency approaches for monthly currency. So No - gyros are easy....(not to say game like) but it does make it a fun challenge to count your turn seconds and get them bang on course haha.
turning rate of about 1 second/10 Degrees turn ... just guessing tho ...
@will gaukler "Standard rate" is what we fly in IMC conditions. It is 3deg/second. This is so a 180 degree turn takes 1 minute and atc can accurately get us on headings using time. We use the turn coordinator (a flight instrument that is not powered by the same system as the other gyro instruments) to accomplish a standard rate turn.
This sounded so tense
It was calm and very professional by ATC and the flight crew.
It sounded pretty tense to me.
If you have any anomaly IMC declare an emergency and get all the help you can. Well done ATC, WELL DONE.
Wow! Relying on a call of 'stop turn' to get your heading... I would love to learn more about how the gyros failed.
Old airplanes had magnetic compasses which while needing to be re-calibrated regularly against geographic north would be helpful in a situation like this to at least get a relative heading for each turn.
Old? How old you talking? If you are referring to the Heading Indicator on a steam gauge aircraft, it is powered by a vacuum. If you lose the vacuum then you lose your heading indicator, but you are right that you can use the standard old fashioned magnetic compass that bounces around on the dashboard area. 3 degrees per second with a standard rate turn using the electrically driven turn coordinator will give you a 360 turn in 2 minutes. One of the biggest common errors when you lose a system (vacuum) is that you dont want to admit it....and that can lead to disaster and often does if you are flying in IMC. Also dont every become so dependent on your autopilot. There will come a day when you are going to have to maneuver and HAND fly an instrument approach in IMC. if I confirm that I have instrument systems failures, the autopilot gets immediately disengaged and I hand fly using partial panel skills. Often easier said than done tho. So thats why its important to stay fresh with hand flying (without autopilot), and practice partial panel exercises frequently too.
HI usually electric. Had to practice no gyro for instrument rating. Very easy.
This is encouraging. I was almost expecting a clown show, but everyone involved handled this very professionally and, all things considered, calmly and deliberately, with clear coms - particularly the ATC team. Amidst all the news noise suggesting incompetence in commercial aviation it's comforting to see something like this. It never developed into an actual threat to safety but it could easily have gone off the tracks. Kudos to the presumably young FO - particularly nice to see newbees acting diligently and relatively calmly under the circumstances. This experience has undoubtedly given that FO some valuable first-hand experience that will likely save lives in the future.
This was fascinating to watch. Not a pilot, but a frequent flyer who listens to ATC TH-cam content. Sounded flawless, well done by all involved!
This was outstanding work by everyone.. it gives me the chills..! Everyone stayed nice and calm...thank you for sharing this
Thank you for watching 🙂
Outstanding work by pilots and ATC. You guys saved lives!
Nope
lol
As an IFR student pilot my CFI hammered incessantly on no-gyro flying, relying on the compass to navigate. Still remember Accelerate North, Decelerate South.
ANDS & UNOS certified hood classics
Its funny (not really) that we can fly partial panel when our CFII covers up the vacuum instruments and tells you that you just lost your vacuum, BUT what if he didnt tell us? What if they just failed, and all the while you still think they are working??? The takeaway is that we all need to train on constantly verifying that the instruments AGREE with each other. If they stop agreeing with each other, then we need to be trained to recognize that and make our own conclusion that one of the systems (vacuum or pitot static) has failed. Once we verify, then we go into partial panel mode. Our CFII wont be there in real IMC to tell us that the system has failed....someday when it really happens.... Food for thought. Fly safe..!
I want a Blancolirio report on this yesterday.
great work, I felt a swell of pride for all those who helped.
That young FO sounded scared to death; and that ATC was First Class!. Kudos to the captain for "keeping-it-together" .
this might be the first time ever nyc atc wished someone would talk slightly slower on the radio... great handling by everyone, glad everything worked out!
All navigation? Thats very rare with gps receivers, and two inertial reference systems
Give those guys a beer!! Bloody brilliant!!
I'm a private pilot. I've heard of the no-gyro approach but have never listened to one in action. Well executed.
Amazing job by the pilots and awesome job ATC! It pays to have really good people on the ground!
The pilots are at fault. They almost killed everyone
I am very impressed with all players in this event. During my IFR training in the late 70s I did several Precision no-gyro approaches into KCHS (with instructor on board). It is very reassuring to have no-gyro approaches available. While listening to this I felt myself tensing up a little. Congratulations to pilots and controllers alike.
"We need to stop out here to change our shorts because well, yeah, you know....." That was the real deal. Great job by all.
JFK should get a Guinness award for the most reported incidents lol
They had a bit last time.
1200 departures a day sometimes at JFK
Guinness....
Wow! Nice work crew and ATC! I was in the cockpit sweating with you. I could hear the stress, and then relief in the pilots’ voices.
Very good job saying "turn" then "stop turning". Basic but the best to do in this situation. 👍
Wow. That was the most interesting and tense ones for a while.
Some quality ATC in the US (g'day from Australia!)
Good job by everyone involved. You could hear the nervousness of the pilot at times, and such a relief when he finally had the field in sight.
those final few no gyro turns on final at 1500 & previous IMC got me on the edge of my seat- YEEKS
I crashed in a sea plane taking off from Santa Catalina Island in 1979. The plane sank quickly but we all survived.
In 2003 a flight landing in Mallorca, Spain couldn't slow down for some reason so we landed at something like full speed.
That was interesting because you're used to how fast a plane should be going when you land. And we were going twice that speed. The applause after that plane finally stopped - and it took a while to stop - was uproarious.
I don't fly much anymore.
I rarely comment on these, but great job all around on this one, especially that approach final controller.
Great work by all involved.. competent controllers and two well trained guys up front with a good outcome.
This is an excellent case study for the NATCA booth at AirVenture this year. Happened in Jan. Great work all round!
Top notch ATC.
Just imagining the pilots trying to get a compass from one of the passengers or an Apple Watch.
Amazing work by all involved. ATC does an outstanding job.
ATC deserves the "Canadian For A Day" achievement in compassion and effective communication in assisting these pilots. 🍁 🦫
This channel is awesome lol just found it like last week and have watched hours and hours worth of vids. Love the detailed descriptions at the beginning, keep em comin!
Thank you 🙂😎👍
Wow. That approach controller is a FUCKING PRO.
You're so dirty.
Back in the day our local controllers appreciated the opportunity to practice these no gyro approaches so those of us flying for practice approaches would often put the discs on the instruments and ask for them. In this age of glass panels and gps these kinds of skills are becoming a lost art. My guess is there was a grey bearded veteran controller in the room who lent his skills to the task. Bravo to all involved in this for bringing the 73 souls home safe.
That was amazing! You can hear the stress of the 1st officer when they where 4 miles out and had no visual of the run way. Everyone was straight up bad asses.
No matter what plane I crewed I always carried and used a full-function hand-held GPS regardless. If the panel goes black or a discrepancy between instruments I can still navigate and safely fly with the little GPS. Cheap insurance and workload reducer. I also carry a personal PLB so a satellite can tell responders I need them and they know where I am. Modern tech can be a life saver for cheap.
Boom! This.
Portable nav and comm.
Although this may sound like a good idea it is likely probably a violation of SOP at a lot of large companies. Anything that isn’t FAA approved is generally a PED and forbidden. A handheld GPS would have likely gotten them in trouble here. Flying the standby attitude instrument off of ATC vectors is the correct thing to do.
@@NicolasEubanks yes, that can be the case in CONUS, but if youre over the atlantic at night, losing both FMS for eg. can lead to significant issues.
Awesome job done by all.
That's how it's done. The ATC was so calm and proficient , it sounds like he could have been playing a game of bridge and sipping tea while talking them through their turns.
Good solid work by ATC and the aircrew. Love to hear it.
the pilot doing the most talking did a great job..
In crew environments theres the PF and PNF, pilot flying and pilot not flying. The pilot not is the one on radios. At the end and 3:10 you can hear the older senior Capt jumping on the radio. He's the pilot/ hero.
Yeah, the PNF had a slight speech impediment, so the fact he was able to talk that fast and that clear must've taken LOADS of work on his part. Super impressed.
@@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq There are no "heroes", the Captain and First officer worked together to bring the aircraft down safely. Emergency situations aren't handled by one crew member, they're handled by all.
@@morerightrudder9742 the actual person "flying" this plane, let alone in imc near dark is "the hero" with the kool calm nerves. The approach controller would be the other hero. The PNF is just there for back up. Pls get 15,000 hrs in a 121/135 environment as a pilot and has had the unfortunate experience to live through three incidents then you can talk. CRM is only as good as the PF's experience.
this is probably the first time I heard of actual no-gyro vectors instructions. This makes things more clear... now I wonder how those Radar Approaches works...
There's a great old black and white movie set around the Berlin Airlift. The radar approach controllers had to talk the C-54s down the glideslope and center line beam using a 2D oscilloscope.
It isn't exactly relevant to this event but, even being out of date, really shows clearly the principles of a radar vectored approach. Back then, all the way to the threshold. The fog could be so bad even taxiing required a "Follow Me" vehicle to guide them on the ground.
I wish I could remember the name of that movie.
Situation well handled by both crew and ATC. Nicely done.
Very impressive. Well Done!
Wow, nice work gentlemen. Way to bring everyone home safely.
No-gyro and no ILS wow! they really went dark! Well-executed no-gyro vectors by both parties!
Highly skilled all around
I live on Long Island. Right where this guy turned around is McArthur airport in Islip. They could of landed there, but since there was no emergency I guess they didn't need to. Excellent job guiding them in!
not authorized to land there. Would have to be in bad shape if that was the only option.
Loved the professionalism.
Flying in IMC in a CRJ700 without Gyros! Wow. I’m impressed.
It's a 900 and only the heading and nav were out. PFD flight director was still 100%
@@buckmurdock2500 Didn’t seem like they had their flight director. The manual for the RJ says that the loss of the FMC would result if you lose gyros. They would have basic pitch and roll displayed. That being said, you might be correct as I am not a commercial pilot. Still wouldn’t want to be in that position in IMC with a low ceiling.
The FO sounded very nervous scared.
Handled it very well considering.
I've never actually heard a no gyro approach given. That whole thing was a pain in the butt! I've never flown the CRJ, so I'm curious what all went wrong. It sounds like they were down to backup instruments only, which would likely mean a failure of multiple systems. Not even getting the ILS makes it even weirder. Either way, top notch work by everyone.
Yes sounds like some major electrical failure of some sorts
My guess is all three platforms were shutdown and restarted in flight. It’s happened before.
there is nothing to indicate the ISIS was not working
@@Snaproll47518 If one takes off in ATT mode then switches to NAV mode it can take up to 10 min for the system to align, in the interim there would be HDG and NAV flags.
In the AHRS aircraft such a switch is required when departing runway with known magnetic anomaly. Interesting how there was nothing wrong on T.O. and about the point the switch would be made they reported loss of nav and hdg.
@@buckmurdock2500 I was never around AHRS but had a lot of experience with Honeywell IRU and ADIRU platforms. It's not possible to align inertial platforms with the aircraft in motion. Selection of ATT is an abnormal procedure after loss of NAV function. Losing all three platforms, supplied by independent power supplies, at the same time is improbable. Finger trouble is more probable.
Always thought there was a mechanical compass in the cockpit. Either way, this pilot probably dug out his boyscout compass and put it in his flight case for next time 😂
there is a vertical card compass on the center w/s post.
Phenomenal!! Endeavor 5459/ATC💯
Great job by all 😊🙏🏻
A little scary especially in IMC. Terrific job by ATC and the flight crew.
at least in RSAF, we practice NCNG procedures... glad to know, these kind of stuff can happens when murphy is on board.
For some reason this year 2023 New York has been having some horrifying news coming from the airport, I’m glad no crashes have been reported 😖.
Not really sure how this could have happened but great just by Approach to get them non-gyro vectors all the way until they were in sight of field. They don't have a ton of extra time.
That flight path looks like the good old days of IFR (I fly Railroad).
I have only a casual interest in aviation YT video, but the ATC in this episode would have to be the clearest I have yet heard. Likewise the crew in response.
That was so cool to hear. Thank you.
Excellent Job but fortunate the aircraft activity was light at that time.
Great work all concerned. I guess this is one example of aviate, communicate, navigate..😊
Great video.
Would a cell phone’s compass work at a low enough altitude to establish a general heading?
Outstanding.
Great video as always. I find a bit funny (though I know it is no fun to anyone in that airplane) that same situation happened to another Delta (Endeavor ) at LGA a few month back. Both were well-handled by ATC and crew.
right amount of nervousness usually makes people focus better, especially with sufficient preparation (training/exercise), and over stress is not.
Wow. Scary. But well done all!
New York ATC they are always the best!
Everyone did a great job 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Amazing that I'm 3 minutes into this and they haven't even declared pan pan yet. Those are some smooth operators, id have at least declared pan pan as soon as I lost the nav
wow what happens when we put lesser trained staff in charge of our infrastructure? Great job. Praise the Lord.
Nicely done. Unusual scenario, any idea how the gyro failed?
great teamwork all round, props to the clealy young FO who kept calm and in control and to the captain for an outstanding performance pobably just using the little backup atificial horison through clouds like a boss, my hats off to everyone fantastic work!
Great job to all! Very professionally done!
Well that was scary! Trying to find an airport in IMC and no instruments!
Omg I could hear his voice shaking, but that’s not to say the Captain wasn’t a little unnerved as well. He just has more experience hiding those emotions…wow they did a great job!
Whew 😊 Them ATC = cream of the crop. Kudos, Gents!
Very nice non gyro approach by the contoller and crew of that aircraft.
It’s interesting that a 767 recently also had a loss of navigation as well out of EWR.
Glad it worked out. I was confused as to the extent of the navigation failure. Was it the FMS, the FMS and VOR/ILS receivers or both plus the attitude and directional gyros? The crew was accepting vectors, were they using the whiskey compass? Without any further discussion the controller started issuing no-gyro instructions. Kudos for that. I read about no-gyro approaches back in instrument ground school and practiced one before my checkride. Don't think I ever practiced one in the USAF or the airlines. Well done all around.
I'd guess the PFD and MFD's were out so they were using that little standby instrument for attitude, altitude and speed (but not ILS or VOR), plus the wobbly wet compass which is why they accepted vectors but also were fine with no gyro instructions.
@@kewkabe the ISIS has heading information and there is no wet compass. It's a vertical card compass.
@@buckmurdock2500 Their ISIS does not have heading info. Only airspeed, altitude, and attitude.
Is it common for both pilot flying and pilot monitoring to both be on the radios? I would expect to only hear pilot monitoring but you could clearly hear two different voices at various times
Not necessarily. At this moment, the FO who did most of the communication was likely stuck into the QRH and running checklists.
Wow, loss of navs on climbout from JFK, then a No Gyro Vector to return, and a "negative runway in sight at 5 mile" callout. It all settles out at 3 miles. That's some mad skill !!
I've always wondered what would happen without aviation or gyros how to land a giant " tube" like a plane.
Great job by ATC and crew
WoW this was spot on.
now... what did I originally come to youtube for...
Can any ATC people chime in on the process of going from vectoring an ILS to final, having the aircraft intercept the LOC when they realize their equipment isn't working, and then switching over to PAR vectors? It seems like this controller was able to jump into that very quickly.