Thanks John, I work with Ah every day at work and I still don't think that some of my professional colleagues understand the difference between different batteries at different voltages. This is imperative to understand the "power" a battery contains. I would love to show said work colleagues this video without fear of a hurt feelings report being submitted.
@@AutoExpertJC It's not so much about the PC workplace, it's about the egos that think they know it all and are not prepared to understand the fundamentals of their trade. There are a lot of big egos that would benefit from some further education. I think you will understand what I am trying to say.
That... was a damn good video! As much as I enjoy his other videos with all of the wit and anger. Seeing John, "get into his groove" and almost "wax poetically" while providing an easy to understand breakdown of a complicated topic! That was just a pleasure to watch.
Having lived with generators as a part of daily life, these large capacity batteries are truly appealing. Gas for cooking, the battery for everything else.
Yeah generators are fucked. I have three and yep I've had three not working all at once. I live on generator power. Two are Diesel (a single 3000rpm 7kva and a triple 1500rpm 5.5kva) and the the other 3000rpm V twin petrol. The things that go wrong are beyond belief. I'm a qualified mechanic and I can confidently state I hate them.
Thanks John. When I jumped into camping batteries, solar panels etc, the easiest option was clear to think in watts. Now a mate and I are looking at power for a yacht project and he is confusing himself with usb vs 12 vs 24 vs 240v vs whatever the solar panels are making. The maths is easy enough that I do most of it in my head, but jotting it down helped a lot at first. Mental arithmetic is like a muscle that you build with use or allow to weaken.
Much appreciation for your disclosure statement. Immediately immensely more credibility than the “scientists “ presenting at any medical conference I have attended. (They universally have NO conflicts)
I’ve worked on medical conferences. Presenters typically say they have no conflicts or else show a slide for half a second (or less) with a bunch of corporate logos on them and move into their presentation. So yes, I agree with your post.
One caveat. If you're using lead acid batteries... The rated capacity (in amp hours) is technically half. So a 100Ah battery is only really Useful for about 50Ah. Anything more than that in a discharge cycle can cause damage and shorten the useful life. Which can really negate the biggest selling feature, cost.
@@craigquann It most certainly is a myth. Too many people confused by the difference between life cycles and life span. They aren't the same thing. It is life cycles that diminish with discharge depth, not life span.
I live off grid using LFP with a PV array and LPG for cooking and heating in a caravan which is full blown DIY on the electrical side and I kind of think you might have oversimplified it a tad. At the very least factoring in efficiency losses that occur when using high current/low voltage configurations like 12v systems at those kwh levels. Voltage drops across undersized cable runs catches people out if they aren't aware of it. Something else to consider is the 8-15% of energy losses when an inverter is involved. That will exist regardless of it's an external one screwed to the floor of your vehicle or the built in one found in the Bluetti. That does impact the expected run time and will become a bigger issue with higher energy requirements. I understand if you purposely oversimplified the topic because the Bluetti range is literally a simple and a more or less idiot proof "plug n play" box of electrons. However I think that oversimplification when using AC in the middle of butt fuck nowhere from a DC energy source can end badly. I come across a lot of oversimplification combined with a lack of information and misinformation in the caravanning and motorhome community when the discussion of off grid comes up. I've had too many "I told you so" moments online where someone ignored advice or thought they knew better and next thing they know they're stuck with a 0kwh paperweight that cost them a solid grand or more with no other source of electricity. Finally, and this is a big no-no when charging batteries using PV is to NEVER directly connect the panel to the battery! Always use a controller in between the two! Solar panels often have a higher voltage than the battery voltage they intend to supply. For example a panel that rated for 12v applications will output 18vdc. 24v panels actually put out between 30-36vdc. directly connecting the two will actually result in someone having their 6 figure vehicles going up in flames. I worry someone will see your diagram and will just do a straight connection thinking it is the correct way to do it. I've had a few instances where someone will either cheap out on a controller or bypass it and have ended up completely destroying their battery. Remember people are stupid and you always have to work around the lowest common denominator!
Apparently, they're not all the same. The EB200P is 10-145VDC for solar input. I should have remembered the wise words of *_The Two Ronnies_* - Never assume - you make an ASS out of U and out of ME.
Those blue boxes are well worth the outlay. I'm forced to use a combination of the generator and AGM/inverter as jackhammer, air compression and heating equipment is an energy intensive set of equipment. It's handy to plug in and go but it's really not that difficult with my so called 'silent' generator.
I used my Bluetti today when we had a 3 hour power outage. It powered my 2 fridges, heater (gas), TV, kettle, internet and computer during this time. From 100% power at the start I had 49% remaining at the end of 3 hours
I use my Tesla Powerwall2 when there’s a power cut (hasn’t been one since install despite there were several prior) and it’s powers get whole house all night and day (with solar bringing it back to 100% before lunch). Well it will when we have the next outage. Meantime it provides all power at night anyway and means we no longer use grid-power (or very rarely).
Absolutely fantastic information there John. I live off the grid on a houseboat, and I'm constantly monitoring energy usage for these exact issues. And yes, I do cook with gas. Toaster, kettle and sandwich press all went to god. On low sun days, this is critical information. Thanks John.
But yours is quite possibly the least justifiable scenario for one. You already have the solar and the charging. If all you need is extra capacity to tide you over in times of low sunlight... just add more batteries. These are one hell of an expensive way of achieving that.
@@grantleyhughes Yeah, I wasn't sure - I was just putting that there just in case you were a bit stupid or someone that read it was. Apparently, you're not.
John, I have just watched the video about getting the power requirements right. Now this was a great piece of information, it did however miss one point that seems to be missing from all retailers of this sort of equipment. And that is the earth. All gensets and decent inverters have an earth terminal. It needs to be connected to an earth peg pushed into the ground. An RCD is great, but it must be designed to work without an earth, if the van hasn't been earthed to the unit and the ground.
I'm in the throes of deciding between a Bluetti-based system for my ute/camper setup or going for a traditional Redarc/Enerdrive build. Advantages Bluetti: Simple, cheaper, less clutter, quick/easy to install Very appealing. Disadvantages: If one component goes you're f'd. Can't (as far as I can find) take anything but a trickle charge from vehicle alternator. Can't incorporate monitoring devices (e.g for water tanks etc). Can't connect to power hungry 12V equipment like fridges, Travel Buddy, etc.(so I'm told). Don't know how it would stand up to thousands of kilometres of corrugated roads (anyone tested this?) How to mount it so that it doesn't get damaged ...hmmmm.... So still on the fence about this item in regards to long term Dingo Piss Creek visitation.
Have you seen John’s video where he uses a welder with one. Anyway John shows you in this video how to calculate if the battery will be able to handle the use of an appliance.
I think anyone suffering from post corrugation stress disorder will sensibly open up any new DPC toy and start chafe protecting wiring and glue gunning anything susceptible to thrashing about. Manufacturers unfortunately seem never to have been corrugated when developing shiny blue boxes. This aspect worries me about the internals of LFePO4 batteries, festooned with tiny internal Voltage equalization cables etc that look ripe for an abrasion and short circuit event.
@@garysheppard4028 Exactly. What I'm curious to know is also how quickly this Chinese thing will self destruct on corrugations. Imagine doing the Kimberley and Great Central road with it shaking in the bed of a ute.
Yes the Bluetti looks pretty but I have some concerns with it. When you put all your eggs in one basket, and lets face it, this is an expensive basket, you risk having really unpleasant problems if something on the unit goes poo-poo. Having separate batteries, inverter, regulator, charger, bc/dc-dc etc. means you only lose one function if a part of the system fails and you only have to pay to replace one part of the system not all of it. Also the Buletti is pretty new to the market and there can't be a whole lot of info around on longevity of the unit yet. What happens to the unit if the battery dies? Can it be replaced or do you have to replace the whole thing? I do like the idea BUT I would need some real world reviews from people who have been using these in the bush for a few years before I would consider buying one.
Yep this is my concern as well. There are some pretty trick boxes on the market these days from local suppliers that can be made up with whatever bits you want/need and if one bit fails or a better version of a part comes out it can be changed. These things have been around in the US for quite a while from what I have seen but they really weren't a thing here until more recently.
There is a thing many who say this are overlooking. This gets you started on day 1. With the complicated system most people will fumble around for ages(months on end) to build a decent system whilst hopefully not electrocuting themselves. The serviceability concerns are valid regardless but they offset a setup effort, which is costly if you consider your time worth money.
I concur. I'm very much a "separate component" system guy too. They're convenient for anyone without the know-how, or knowledge but no desire, or more money than sense. However, I expect the batteries aren't themselves proprietary anyway but standard case dimensions. Then there's the recharging, which wasn't really fully covered. If you're needing this much energy and power delivery, there's the issue of needing plenty of power or time to maintain that capacity too - so you're more limited by the power to replenish anyway, if DPC is where you're at, and you're not thinking of carrying acres of solar panels with you. In that scenario, you're better to cut down your 'needs' (gosh, how did we get by just 20 years ago?). But for tradesmen needing a simple, short term high power delivery energy supply - ideal - top off the charge on the way to the next job using the vehicle's charging system or overnight at home off the mains. But it seems to be only a cigarette lighter adapter for vehicle charging and I can't see anywhere stating the charge rate for DC, so I assume it's the same as the 700W solar - which you can't put through a cigarette lighter socket - so you'd need to run a heavy cable from the battery for that use scenario too and make sure it's manual and automatically switchable so you don't inadvertently discharge your starting battery. Weirdly, the AC200P can only charge at a maximum of 500W from mains, but 700W from solar, but combined solar/AC of 1200W or dual AC of 1000W. I wonder if that mains limitation imposed is just to extend battery life knowing that's what 90% of people will do, and secure in the knowledge almost nobody's going to have 700W of solar on their acoustically transparent Shittoire, and that few will fork out for the extra charging adapter to do the dual AC 1000W either. Glamping seems all too much hassle. Besides, isn't the point to *_"get away from it all"_* , so that begs the question... why would you be taking it all with you?
@@kozmaz87 Not electrocuting themselves? The only place this is even a possibility is on the inverter delivery end, which is just as likely with the Bluetti as your own contraption. Everything else is low voltage.
@@TonyRule Damn you sound a bit like me. I take a small lithium backup phone battery for lights and to charge our phones which can charge via USB or off a small solar cell and buy some ice for the cooler. If you're going to spend this much to go camping once a year then either buy some freeze dried meals or stay in a cabin. Lol
The peak in amperage draw when you start a motor isn’t because of the mass, it’s because of the magnetic effect causing back EMF takes a a brief time to build.
I can testify those clipsal power boxes are excellent in all kinds of building site conditions you are right the DIY path can be fun if you have the time and the skills not to fry yourself battery technology keeps improving too be interesting how these off grid products go the one featured in this video by the looks and specs its a good bargain plug and play with safety
Good high level content. I'll add a bit extra and that is converting from one voltage to another, i.e. 12v to 240v doesn't come free. Include about a 90% efficiency factor when an inverter is in the mix.
yes GG, everything which can run of native DC power/energy / electrocity, through supplied cig-adapters or usb converters, is well worth it. for far offgrid boonies -- a diesel generator for "those times" can be a glampers saviour (saves another $4k and 40kg in batteries - there is a sweetspot.
I just love John... there are many reasons, but the top of the list is that I wish he had been my Physics teacher! Old Mr. Weir just couldn't explain as John does...
Looks like a very handy unit. Just a word about RCDs though, just for accuracy, if I may (I have electrical registration). An RCD works only with a ground referenced supply. On a standard GPO, the neutral conductor (which is the black wire (or blue if you’re talking the appliance cable)) is connected to earth at the dwelling switchboard as well as at the supply transformer that feeds your neighbourhood. It is also connected to earth at all your neighbours switchboards. Hence the term Multiple Earthed Neutral (MEN) which is the electrical standard used in Australia and New Zealand. Here, an RCD makes sense in providing protection should a person come into contact with the ‘live’/phase conductor. However, the outputs from the Bluetti will be ‘floating’ and therefore isolated from earth. It can be treated the same as an old school isolating transformer that Tradies used to use as a protection device back in the day. In this scenario, to get electrocuted you would need to come into contact with both conductors, and in a way where the electrical path is across the chest (so, by holding both wires with one in each hand for example - that would do it). Though it won’t hurt to use an RCD and it is probably a good habit to get into whenever powering appliances outdoors, even from a device like this, it will probably never trip on a single live conductor (through the person) to earth fault and is therefore is unlikely to provide any extra protection. Keep up the good work. G.
Couple of points: AC power in Australia is now 230V. There was a roughly 20yr transition period from 240V to 230V to bring it into line with Europe. So your wall outlet provides 230V now not 240V. Although yes, many DC Inverters output 240V (my 3kW one does). Also, to recharge your said DC battery with solar you generally can’t just connect a solar panel as you’ll ruin the battery. Typically it’ll need to go through a charge controller (PWM or MPPT etc). With regard to generators, you could use a diesel generator and thus take the same fuel as your vehicle (or in my case I have a petrol generator and a petrol vehicle). Mind you I don’t take the generator - I have a 300Ah/12V/3840Wh battery + 3kW inverter for travelling. Last, you need to make it clear that a 100Ah or 200Ah capacity DC battery is only fully usable with lithium batteries. A 100Ah AGM battery for example is good for not really more than 50% of that, being 50Ah. Run it to 0 and you could immediately or soon have serious issues with it.
Thanks for the article. You answered my question about why you wouldn’t just buy a generator if you want to use a number of electrical appliances in your caravan.
Bit of an advertisement - but a solid video... Good call on safety/complete systems... however - if you're looking to extend an existing setup DIY could be an option (if relevantly skilled). I upgraded the old mans caravan battery - 300Ah 12v LiFePO4 for just under $1,000 (direct import components from known quality Chinese suppliers), it can output 200A (@12v) & drive 2.6kw continuous - enough to run the Caravans 1800w A/C for a bit & 4kwh of storage. (This is serious business though - welders run at much less currents, knowledge is required!) Also - Ah is useful when talking about charge/discharge rates. Most LiFePO4 batteries have a 0.5c/1c charge or discharge rate. So a 300Ah battery can supply 3x more power than a 100Ah battery. You'll run something 3x longer sure, but stressing out batteries shortens their life. Also to extend cycle life dont charge/discharge fully - charge to 3.45v & discharge to 2.8v, depending on the cells it can provide significant increase in cycle life
Thank you John. Another well reasoned, presented and researched video. The world, as we know, will always create a better idiot but this video should save a few lives and prevent some nasty surprises/injuries.
Our power usage is minimal. LED lighting at night recharging of phones so a 100ah lithium with a 200w panel on the roof is fine for us. I do have a 2.2kw Honda Generator that I run solely on LPG and a 9kg bottle will run it for 30 hours if needed(no need for petrol). It’s there for emergencies or a real stinker and we want to run the AC for a few hours. It plugs into the switchboard at home and runs the house as well if required.
Thanks for the quick lesson in regards to computing our power needs, but I find the AC200MAX a bit on the heavy and bulky side. They should redesign it and make it lighter and more portable.
Why doesn’t the black box of tricks not come with an RCD inbuilt. I know some loads will trip an RCD though maybe one or two of the outlets have this feature. Just a proactive thought Cheerz
Hi John, I am sure you are aware that most people would be running AGM battery so they really only 50% usable power from their battery. Can you confirm that as the battery is running down while in use, the volts also drop and this is why my 12V portable fridge (set on 2*C is turning off. I have a 120A battery with 20A dc dc charger and 250W solar panel to power a 12V fridge 6A draw on 40*C day. Really enjoy your videos as they separate fact from BS. Cheers Rob
Just ordering an emergency back up generator. Petrol. When I build a shed I will be looking at the Bluetti stuff. It will be cheaper to do this with a solar panel than run 150 metres of trench, cabling and extra fuse box. The petrol generator can still be used when the Sun does not play ball.
Thanks for the great video, I like your content, gift wrapped in a down to earth, practical style. I think it is practical to view batteries, petrol tanks and gas bottles as essentially equivalent, they all store energy that can do work in different ways and contexts. The real advantage of both petrol tanks (on a generator) and gas bottles is they are potentially instantly "recharged", where as the battery will take time. There are disadvantages with petrol and gas, such as noise, locational pollution and heat. I recall watching an episode of QI on TH-cam some time ago, where it was mentioned that back when many suburban households were converting to electricity (called "going on the electric"), the gas companies developed gas powered radios and other small appliances as a way to keep their customer base. Just an interesting anecdote, well to me anyway.
G'day John, 1. THANK YOU for all your pre-election efforts alongside Michael West & David McBride, may the progress in Albo's first month be indicative of Albo's first term, particularly with David and every other whistleblower's case 2.THANK YOU for bringing this potential life saver to our attention !!! I have emailed this question to Bluetti but value your objective opinion - experience with the unit, do you reckon I could use the AC200MAX like an Uninterrupted Power Supply for mum's 345 watt oxygen concentrator overnight, ie run the concentrator from the AC200 while having the AC200 plugged in and charging on mains AC at the same time ? Thinking the AC200MAX + a B300 expansion alongside a standalone oxygen cylinder could cover mum's basic essentials in the event of a 24hr blackout. Thanks again for everything you do good sir, may you be a magnet for nothing but good karma, cheers Mike.
Being a tradie and having to work remote I've set up my vehicle to run the inverter. 2 flexible panels generating real power at 28 amps at 12 volt. 3 x 90 amp batteries that are cold cranking units..... not deep cycle or AGM. 1 x 2500/5000 watt inverter. I've run a small welder on this unit. Generally I use it for saws and grinders. It runs my 8 cfm inverter compressor to run my air nailers. Cost of my set up......batteries $180 x 3, solar panels and regulators, $155 x 2. Inverted was $390 off ebay......
@@TonyRule tools don't use much power. This video shows him using his stuff in the shed.....but in total you're looking at a total run time of maybe 10 minutes. Tools are not ovens, dryers or air conditioning units, they don't run for hours at a time.
Thank goodness for pure sine wave across the board for these battery banks. Simulated sine wave output can wreck havoc on electronics, such as laptop power adapters and some PC PSUs.
Im am glad to see the specs for the AC300 and the AC200MAX as far as solar input is concerned are MUCH better than the AC200P. The biggest disappointment for the AC200P is the Solar Input. Yes up to 700w, cool, but the min 35v and 12A really is a massive let down. Buyers beware, the AC200P wont charge all that well on majority of off grid solar panels which are "12v" panels.
If you connect 3 of the 12v solar panels in series you'll end up with 36volts. Again, its not about the voltage only, but the power, meaning volts x amps
@@orlandomah1186 Thats all very well, and correct, but your average joe wont know this, thats my point. They will have all these 12v portable panels or already have a system in place, and if they dont read the specs and or fully understand them, then they find out after the fact that they need to change their entire solar setup wiring.
For those of us with potential CTE John ;) 1. My Oztrail 80l fridge I throw in the back of the Triton to go out to DPC is 12v or 240V. How much power will it drain from the Bluetti when plugged into a 12v cig socket v using the 240v socket? I keep reading things about 'losses' and 'efficiency' when converting from DC to AC. 2. A home-built, or commerically installed 12v system, can have a DCtoDC charger installed so it charges from your alternator while driving - can you do or get something similar for the Bluetti?? At least I know and can workout and use Watt Hours now - so you've gotten through to at least one meathead ... well, kinda ;)
Really interesting and informative 👍 well done John. I'd be interested to see how many beer swilling Hi Lux drivers on path to DPC change their mental state following this episode 😀
Thanks for this, it has really simplified it for me, no more amp hours for me. Ive always used amp hours and its always been a head f%$k. Very useful. Just one point that you did not touch on and that is the real capacity, eg for a 100 AH AGM, the real usable power is only about 50% of that. I think lithium is about 80%. Cheers
It was a great report and I really enjoyed it. I prefer John’s serious videos over his “Australian!!” type vids but maybe it’s just because Kiwis don’t have the same humour? 🤪
Hmmm, still trying to work out what the 240VAc angle grinder is for on a camping trip, when battery options are so in vogue! Is it to start the Dingo Piss Creek campfire with, sparking it against a piece of steel? Still if you're taking an angle grinder of any sort you should probably revisit your payload requirements, just a thought! At least I agree with gas option for all cooking requirements, but I have to disagree with the generator comments, fundamentally calling them unsafe, they have to meet safety design requirements, such as RCD protection, and if you're wanting to refuel them running or hot, then I suggest a reeducation program or a Darwin award! If your electrical setup is correct with suitable PV supply & charging then there is an aspect about load management which sees the requirement for the generator greatly reduced and in fact it becomes the backup. If your wanting to run the air conditioner all night then I think you should just get rid of the caravan and book a suit at the Hilton, room service included...princess!
@31:23 There are portable generators that run on LPG. I have a dual fuel generator for my home that will run on gasoline or propane. So electricity from propane on a small scale is doable. Of course, for cooking or heating, it is far more efficient to generate the heat straight from the propane.
Hey john - when we had our campervan conversion the Conversion Company refused to fit a Gas stove so we had to settle for a Mytholated Spirits stove. Yeah it works - but not as rapidly. Gotta' admit methyo is found most places and its reasonably easy to carry.
I use a Coleman Dual fuel stove and love it. Can run on various fuels including unleaded petrol and they are built tough. Come in single and twin burner form.
@@apistosig4173 Snowies outdoors has some videos on them and the guy doing the video has had his for years. I have the dual burner one and I'm thinking of buying the single for my brother in law. Plenty of videos on TH-cam about them. They aren't as quick as gas but very powerful and work in very low temperatures. Just be aware that they aren't treated like gas stoves in some areas but that would also apply to what you have now. Best thing is no carting gas bottles/cartridges around in the vehicle. Good luck with it.
John... you should have been a car salesman. I was in the market for something to power a fridge, some lights and cpap for camping. I was just about to go the route of all in one battery box and inverter with an agm battery. Was hesitant about the 50kg weight and mucking around with a dc to dc charger and any other shit i needed to have hanging out to maintain it. It would mean i would have used it less, for those reasons. Only problem bluetti need to get more resellers, getting stock locally and on time constraintsmakes it hard being online only. The likes of bcf and anaconda should be their highest priority. Anyways great work
I recently saw TH-cam dude 8-bit guy make use of the Bluetti as part of keeping power going to his geek cave should the power grid in Texas, where he lives, fill its trousers again.
Well I got the 200W via your link. A couple of things. Firstly most vaners/campers use Anderson plugs. The connectors XT90 and the aviation plug are not easily found but got them on Amazon. So I made a couple of suitable leads. Really interested in building up the 200W to run the house in the event of an extended blackout. One thing you need is some type of switch so you can plug the power bank into the switchboard to power the house. Then automatically cutoff when power comes back on. Curious but when there is a blackout your Tesla etc turn off so you have no power to the house. You’re in the dark with the rest of us. Hence the need for a auto switch referred to above
@@oldbloke204 My understanding is all solar power is switched off by the authority in the event of a failure so the network is uncharged so it can be worked on. This came about most recently in the 2011 flood in QLD when rooftop solar panels were charging away while the rest of the house was underwater. Very dangerous for rescue workers and subsequent trades working on the house
@@scottlearmont4587 Yeah I was sure about that but the point you made about being able to shut them down may still have some validity, but if the internet goes down, which it usually does in these things then they wouldn't be able too? Not sure. I do know that a lot of people think that they have heaps of power with these things but they don't have nearly as much as they think in most cases, especially if they can't be recharged for whatever reason. Not sold on the idea yet but we have plenty of backups with camping gear, wood stove and other bits and pieces. Cheers.
Thanks John, a great video. Thanks. A question, if you plug in a standard 10A powerboard will that be as effective or safe as the RCD circuit, why or why not? Thanks
Thanks John, good info, I’m currently circumnavigating our country in a 7.5 tonne Isuzu truck with slide on. So I imagine you might revisit this subject again, so my suggestion is to give a little more clarification on the differences between the lead acid/ agm batteries and the lithium batteries, with a discussion on amp hours, that the battery is labeled with,,, as you would know - a 200 amp hour agm is good for about half of that 200, but the lithium is more like 90%. I put my dc clamp on the lead to the inverter the other morning when using our pod coffee maker - it was drawing 170 amps… wow
Good advice to avoid completing a circuit via an untended path. Floating neutral non grounded inverter/gen doesn’t involve the earth. Still good advice to not create a new path through you. More specifically across the heart muscle that uses a really cool cycle of electrical pulses that if interrupted stop the delivery of oxygen to …life.
You didn't mention the inverter losses , running 150W on an inverter might actually be draining ~165w from battery. This is due to the 10% power loss (Average loss) of most inverters.
Great vid, very informative. One question on choosing a suitable battery for purpose, given that lead acid batteries are best not discharged beyond 50% for longevity would you recommend doubling the a/h or w/h rating after intended usage is worked out?
You can't use starting batteries if that's what you're talking about - they're designed and constructed for high-discharge, short-duration loads. But deep cycle batteries are fine for... deep discharge, but they're not good for repeated high discharge rates - horse for courses. Flooded lead-acid, AGM and Gel deep cycle batteries are rated on 20h duty. So a 100Ah will deliver 5A continuously and give the full 100Ah. Go over that and the Ah rating drops (Peukert's Law). But, yes, the bigger the battery, the more cycles (life) at the same loads.
the $899 battery will not run a 2000W inverter as the battery is limited to 100A max discharge - many diy have been caught out by this lack of discharge ability of the cheeper batteries
There are LPG Generators. Propare Generators. For 3-4k EUR you have unlimeted electricity. A Honda EU 22i burns just 2 liters of petrol and keeps 2 Big Fat AC Units going for 3 hours. Or a 2 fridges for 5 hours. You can cook for 3 hours non stop or electric barbecue for 3 hours. 5 liters of petrol is not that much and not that heavy. For the dangers of mishandling there is always insurance cover.. The Honda generator is 1,5k EUR cost and I have it maintenance free and it keeps going 5 years now. I checked at HONDA service and the maintenance cost was 5 EUR yesterday and I have 1 year warranty more due to this maintenance.
Hi John, can you look at EV battery replacement costs, purchase, install and disposal cost of the old battery, not much info out there but I did see a telsa battery was 14k just for the battery. Also noted around 240klm's life expectancy for a Tesla battery. I would think resale price would come into real question if you brought a used unit with high kilometres and the cost on replacing the battery after purchase. I guess given the number of EV's coming on the market nowadays nothing is spoken about battery life and change over cost? I will stick to my diesel I think.
Hi John. 1. What’s a: “hell of a big mistake”,? 2. Which is correct: “where no hole should of been” or “Where no hole should have been (should’ve) been”? George Joyce.
Hey John. Any chance you could ask Bluetti to send you their EP500Pro to play with? It looks good on paper as a whole house backup power supply, but I'd love your honest review of it before I drop $8K on it.
On safety. Many people think a DC battery is safe because they have to put it to their tongue to get a zap. But if you string a few car batteries together to get 36 volts or double that to work with some inverter systems your neighbours might think you’re having a barbecue when they hear the sizzling and see the smoke as you quickly dump several thousand amp hours through your body in the time it takes a bug zapper to do the same to a moth.
Just saw the statement at about 18:15 re plugging a PV panel directly to a battery ... DO NOT do this ... we have Solar Charge Controllers for a reason as a DC-DC converter ... let's not start blowing up LiFePO4 BMS' by plugging 35+V "house panel" directly onto 12V terminals ... fair statement in the context of the Bluetti with an "inbuilt" MPPT controller ... I'm normally a fan John, but that one is just dangerous, or very expensive!
Fair point, Jamie. This is the problem with ad-libbing anything for half an hour. I meant philosophically, in the context of not needing to convert the electricity to another form, and as you said, the Bluetti has an inbuilt solar controller, as would any other professionally designed system, so in that respect, the panels do go straight on (to the system). I agree I should have said that better. Sorry about that.
Your point about cooking with gas is well taken. I'm a stubborn piece of shit and I'm going to see how I go without it for a week as a test run. If there were many mouths to feed and boiling rice and pasta was on the agenda, then using gas would be optimal, no question. But, ts just me and the dog. His meals aren't cooked and mine is only cooked for one meal a day. I'm more interested in keeping the supply of energy to to my fridge and my coffee machine 🤤😅
They do make small diesel generators you know. If you have a 2000 watt device you do not want a 2000 watt inverter to power it. You will want a 2400 watt inverter. Even if a 2000 watt inverter has double that in surge capacity it will likely trip out or cook if it has to operate at maximum capacity constantly for more than five minutes for a good one and one minute for a garbage one and it will often take three to seven minutes to boil a full kettle. Also a 2000 watt load will not pull 2000 watt from the battery. The inverter will also pull whatever it takes to convert the 12 volt dc or more to the required ac output. There are off grid appliances that use direct dc and gas to power themselves with either internal inverters or by using DC capable motors. If you were to go full off grid for your home you would best look into DC appliances and lights to reduce the energy losses caused by converting power types.
I wish I could find a micro Diesel generator, but a small Honda or Hyundai inverter generator is so light that the 50+ kg saved over a Diesel unit represents a lot of payload available to carry petrol.
@@philhealey449 The smallest I've seen are two or three times the size of some of those little inverter ones. I have seen them built into the front back and sides of vans and RV's
@@anomamos9095 Yes that's the challenge. Dometic, Fischer Panda etc are golliaths, I acquired a broken Harrington "Lightweight Field Generator" to play with, but that's a 2 man carry. The Honda i10 plus a 2kW Victron Multiplus and 100Ah of 24 V battery looks a good bet on the RV front where daily driving or PV can't keep up with usage. Home needs a Lister Start-O-Matic for when the balloon (imminently?) goes up !
Watching your story on battery packs ,in my working life I have done a great deal of site work all along the east coast and west Queensland using diesel/petrol gen sets . To get the earth leakage to work we had to physically take ground the gen set ,one site we had a young engineer just out of uni ,more degrees than a thermometer no experience saying we had to have an earth stake 1.5 mtrs into the ground not a good practice in a water treatment plant ,wouldn’t know what is down there ,cables etc . Question have these units got a earthing terminal .John.c
All right, I’m not very mathematically astute. So I still can’t work out which one I need for 3 days for a 35lt fridge, some LED light strips and charging laptop and devices
BLUETTI SALE EVENT - ends June 22
www.bluettipower.com.au/?ref=8xzu1i8qk8
AC300 Inverter module: www.bluettipower.com.au/products/bluetti-ac300-inverter-module-generator?ref=8xzu1i8qk8
AC300 + B300 expansion battery module(s): www.bluettipower.com.au/products/bluetti-ac300-b300-home-battery-backup?ref=8xzu1i8qk8
AC200MAX portable power station: www.bluettipower.com.au/products/bluetti-ac200max-home-battery-backup?ref=8xzu1i8qk8
AC200MAX with B230 expansion battery: www.bluettipower.com.au/products/bluetti-ac200max-b230-home-battery-backup?ref=8xzu1i8qk8
I'm not one for generators John, but the Honda genny's basically run forever, with the absolute minimum repairs. ☺
Thanks John, I work with Ah every day at work and I still don't think that some of my professional colleagues understand the difference between different batteries at different voltages. This is imperative to understand the "power" a battery contains. I would love to show said work colleagues this video without fear of a hurt feelings report being submitted.
Depends how PC your workplace is. I didn't think this one was too edgy.
@@AutoExpertJC It's not so much about the PC workplace, it's about the egos that think they know it all and are not prepared to understand the fundamentals of their trade. There are a lot of big egos that would benefit from some further education. I think you will understand what I am trying to say.
I get it. Been there...
@@kepamurray1845 the FIGJAM types we all have to put up with - don’t let the (mental) dwarves get you down
This is an excellent explanation of energy storage and usage. Respect Mr. Cadogan.
My pleasure Gary - thank you very much.
Auto Expert PLUS A whole lot more! 👏🏼👏🏼
Thanks, JC.
That... was a damn good video! As much as I enjoy his other videos with all of the wit and anger. Seeing John, "get into his groove" and almost "wax poetically" while providing an easy to understand breakdown of a complicated topic! That was just a pleasure to watch.
Now I can confidently go to DPC! This was great to watch and so helpful. Thanks John 👍👍
Finally someone made amp, watt hour and volts easy.. thank you
Having lived with generators as a part of daily life, these large capacity batteries are truly appealing. Gas for cooking, the battery for everything else.
Yeah generators are fucked. I have three and yep I've had three not working all at once. I live on generator power. Two are Diesel (a single 3000rpm 7kva and a triple 1500rpm 5.5kva) and the the other 3000rpm V twin petrol.
The things that go wrong are beyond belief. I'm a qualified mechanic and I can confidently state I hate them.
Air conditioning, satelite TV.
@@ThePaulv12 Have you tried the Honda petrol generators yet? They're basically unbreakable ☺
Thanks John. When I jumped into camping batteries, solar panels etc, the easiest option was clear to think in watts. Now a mate and I are looking at power for a yacht project and he is confusing himself with usb vs 12 vs 24 vs 240v vs whatever the solar panels are making. The maths is easy enough that I do most of it in my head, but jotting it down helped a lot at first. Mental arithmetic is like a muscle that you build with use or allow to weaken.
Much appreciation for your disclosure statement. Immediately immensely more credibility than the “scientists “ presenting at any medical conference I have attended. (They universally have NO conflicts)
I’ve worked on medical conferences. Presenters typically say they have no conflicts or else show a slide for half a second (or less) with a bunch of corporate logos on them and move into their presentation. So yes, I agree with your post.
thanks john for taking the time and explaining it all to us really enjoyed it
Purchased the AC200MAX after your last review via your link. It’s a cracker and hasn’t missed a beat.
Thank you.
Love you to do a video on off grid house systems,,,, will blown many people minds with the costs involved.
One caveat. If you're using lead acid batteries... The rated capacity (in amp hours) is technically half. So a 100Ah battery is only really Useful for about 50Ah. Anything more than that in a discharge cycle can cause damage and shorten the useful life. Which can really negate the biggest selling feature, cost.
codswallop. An old myth
@@glennmccorquodale8599 no it's not.
@@craigquann It most certainly is a myth. Too many people confused by the difference between life cycles and life span. They aren't the same thing. It is life cycles that diminish with discharge depth, not life span.
I live off grid using LFP with a PV array and LPG for cooking and heating in a caravan which is full blown DIY on the electrical side and I kind of think you might have oversimplified it a tad. At the very least factoring in efficiency losses that occur when using high current/low voltage configurations like 12v systems at those kwh levels. Voltage drops across undersized cable runs catches people out if they aren't aware of it. Something else to consider is the 8-15% of energy losses when an inverter is involved. That will exist regardless of it's an external one screwed to the floor of your vehicle or the built in one found in the Bluetti. That does impact the expected run time and will become a bigger issue with higher energy requirements. I understand if you purposely oversimplified the topic because the Bluetti range is literally a simple and a more or less idiot proof "plug n play" box of electrons. However I think that oversimplification when using AC in the middle of butt fuck nowhere from a DC energy source can end badly. I come across a lot of oversimplification combined with a lack of information and misinformation in the caravanning and motorhome community when the discussion of off grid comes up. I've had too many "I told you so" moments online where someone ignored advice or thought they knew better and next thing they know they're stuck with a 0kwh paperweight that cost them a solid grand or more with no other source of electricity.
Finally, and this is a big no-no when charging batteries using PV is to NEVER directly connect the panel to the battery! Always use a controller in between the two! Solar panels often have a higher voltage than the battery voltage they intend to supply. For example a panel that rated for 12v applications will output 18vdc. 24v panels actually put out between 30-36vdc. directly connecting the two will actually result in someone having their 6 figure vehicles going up in flames. I worry someone will see your diagram and will just do a straight connection thinking it is the correct way to do it. I've had a few instances where someone will either cheap out on a controller or bypass it and have ended up completely destroying their battery. Remember people are stupid and you always have to work around the lowest common denominator!
The Bluetti all have an MPPT built in.
So I can’t connect the free home panels x2 straight to my camping trailer battery like he just said?
Solar DC input for charging these is DC 35V-150V (from the AC200P manual - I expect they're all the same).
Apparently, they're not all the same. The EB200P is 10-145VDC for solar input.
I should have remembered the wise words of *_The Two Ronnies_* - Never assume - you make an ASS out of U and out of ME.
@@TonyRule that's why I didn't buy an ac200p
Those blue boxes are well worth the outlay. I'm forced to use a combination of the generator and AGM/inverter as jackhammer, air compression and heating equipment is an energy intensive set of equipment. It's handy to plug in and go but it's really not that difficult with my so called 'silent' generator.
I used my Bluetti today when we had a 3 hour power outage. It powered my 2 fridges, heater (gas), TV, kettle, internet and computer during this time. From 100% power at the start I had 49% remaining at the end of 3 hours
I use my Tesla Powerwall2 when there’s a power cut (hasn’t been one since install despite there were several prior) and it’s powers get whole house all night and day (with solar bringing it back to 100% before lunch). Well it will when we have the next outage.
Meantime it provides all power at night anyway and means we no longer use grid-power (or very rarely).
Absolutely fantastic information there John. I live off the grid on a houseboat, and I'm constantly monitoring energy usage for these exact issues. And yes, I do cook with gas. Toaster, kettle and sandwich press all went to god. On low sun days, this is critical information. Thanks John.
But yours is quite possibly the least justifiable scenario for one. You already have the solar and the charging. If all you need is extra capacity to tide you over in times of low sunlight... just add more batteries. These are one hell of an expensive way of achieving that.
@@TonyRule I was more concerned with the calculations. I have 6 35 kg BAE batteries that provide ample storage. And a gen set for emergencies.
@@grantleyhughes Yeah, I wasn't sure - I was just putting that there just in case you were a bit stupid or someone that read it was. Apparently, you're not.
John, I have just watched the video about getting the power requirements right. Now this was a great piece of information, it did however miss one point that seems to be missing from all retailers of this sort of equipment. And that is the earth. All gensets and decent inverters have an earth terminal. It needs to be connected to an earth peg pushed into the ground. An RCD is great, but it must be designed to work without an earth, if the van hasn't been earthed to the unit and the ground.
I'm in the throes of deciding between a Bluetti-based system for my ute/camper setup or going for a traditional Redarc/Enerdrive build.
Advantages Bluetti: Simple, cheaper, less clutter, quick/easy to install
Very appealing.
Disadvantages: If one component goes you're f'd.
Can't (as far as I can find) take anything but a trickle charge from vehicle alternator.
Can't incorporate monitoring devices (e.g for water tanks etc).
Can't connect to power hungry 12V equipment like fridges, Travel Buddy, etc.(so I'm told).
Don't know how it would stand up to thousands of kilometres of corrugated roads (anyone tested this?)
How to mount it so that it doesn't get damaged ...hmmmm....
So still on the fence about this item in regards to long term Dingo Piss Creek visitation.
Very valid points that not many people have thought of☺
Have you seen John’s video where he uses a welder with one.
Anyway John shows you in this video how to calculate if the battery will be able to handle the use of an appliance.
@@tomnewham1269 Yes I've seen that video.
But has no relation to the points I raised.
I think anyone suffering from post corrugation stress disorder will sensibly open up any new DPC toy and start chafe protecting wiring and glue gunning anything susceptible to thrashing about. Manufacturers unfortunately seem never to have been corrugated when developing shiny blue boxes. This aspect worries me about the internals of LFePO4 batteries, festooned with tiny internal Voltage equalization cables etc that look ripe for an abrasion and short circuit event.
@@garysheppard4028 Exactly. What I'm curious to know is also how quickly this Chinese thing will self destruct on corrugations. Imagine doing the Kimberley and Great Central road with it shaking in the bed of a ute.
Well explained John. I’m looking at portable power for my van and this has cut through the confusion greatly. Thank you.
Yes the Bluetti looks pretty but I have some concerns with it. When you put all your eggs in one basket, and lets face it, this is an expensive basket, you risk having really unpleasant problems if something on the unit goes poo-poo. Having separate batteries, inverter, regulator, charger, bc/dc-dc etc. means you only lose one function if a part of the system fails and you only have to pay to replace one part of the system not all of it. Also the Buletti is pretty new to the market and there can't be a whole lot of info around on longevity of the unit yet. What happens to the unit if the battery dies? Can it be replaced or do you have to replace the whole thing? I do like the idea BUT I would need some real world reviews from people who have been using these in the bush for a few years before I would consider buying one.
Yep this is my concern as well.
There are some pretty trick boxes on the market these days from local suppliers that can be made up with whatever bits you want/need and if one bit fails or a better version of a part comes out it can be changed.
These things have been around in the US for quite a while from what I have seen but they really weren't a thing here until more recently.
There is a thing many who say this are overlooking. This gets you started on day 1. With the complicated system most people will fumble around for ages(months on end) to build a decent system whilst hopefully not electrocuting themselves. The serviceability concerns are valid regardless but they offset a setup effort, which is costly if you consider your time worth money.
I concur. I'm very much a "separate component" system guy too. They're convenient for anyone without the know-how, or knowledge but no desire, or more money than sense. However, I expect the batteries aren't themselves proprietary anyway but standard case dimensions.
Then there's the recharging, which wasn't really fully covered. If you're needing this much energy and power delivery, there's the issue of needing plenty of power or time to maintain that capacity too - so you're more limited by the power to replenish anyway, if DPC is where you're at, and you're not thinking of carrying acres of solar panels with you. In that scenario, you're better to cut down your 'needs' (gosh, how did we get by just 20 years ago?).
But for tradesmen needing a simple, short term high power delivery energy supply - ideal - top off the charge on the way to the next job using the vehicle's charging system or overnight at home off the mains. But it seems to be only a cigarette lighter adapter for vehicle charging and I can't see anywhere stating the charge rate for DC, so I assume it's the same as the 700W solar - which you can't put through a cigarette lighter socket - so you'd need to run a heavy cable from the battery for that use scenario too and make sure it's manual and automatically switchable so you don't inadvertently discharge your starting battery.
Weirdly, the AC200P can only charge at a maximum of 500W from mains, but 700W from solar, but combined solar/AC of 1200W or dual AC of 1000W. I wonder if that mains limitation imposed is just to extend battery life knowing that's what 90% of people will do, and secure in the knowledge almost nobody's going to have 700W of solar on their acoustically transparent Shittoire, and that few will fork out for the extra charging adapter to do the dual AC 1000W either.
Glamping seems all too much hassle. Besides, isn't the point to *_"get away from it all"_* , so that begs the question... why would you be taking it all with you?
@@kozmaz87 Not electrocuting themselves? The only place this is even a possibility is on the inverter delivery end, which is just as likely with the Bluetti as your own contraption. Everything else is low voltage.
@@TonyRule Damn you sound a bit like me.
I take a small lithium backup phone battery for lights and to charge our phones which can charge via USB or off a small solar cell and buy some ice for the cooler.
If you're going to spend this much to go camping once a year then either buy some freeze dried meals or stay in a cabin.
Lol
The peak in amperage draw when you start a motor isn’t because of the mass, it’s because of the magnetic effect causing back EMF takes a a brief time to build.
I can testify those clipsal power boxes are excellent in all kinds of building site conditions you are right the DIY path can be fun if you have the time and the skills not to fry yourself battery technology keeps improving too be interesting how these off grid products go the one featured in this video by the looks and specs its a good bargain plug and play with safety
Good high level content. I'll add a bit extra and that is converting from one voltage to another, i.e. 12v to 240v doesn't come free. Include about a 90% efficiency factor when an inverter is in the mix.
yes GG, everything which can run of native DC power/energy / electrocity, through supplied cig-adapters or usb converters, is well worth it.
for far offgrid boonies -- a diesel generator for "those times" can be a glampers saviour (saves another $4k and 40kg in batteries - there is a sweetspot.
I just love John... there are many reasons, but the top of the list is that I wish he had been my Physics teacher! Old Mr. Weir just couldn't explain as John does...
Looks like a very handy unit. Just a word about RCDs though, just for accuracy, if I may (I have electrical registration). An RCD works only with a ground referenced supply. On a standard GPO, the neutral conductor (which is the black wire (or blue if you’re talking the appliance cable)) is connected to earth at the dwelling switchboard as well as at the supply transformer that feeds your neighbourhood. It is also connected to earth at all your neighbours switchboards. Hence the term Multiple Earthed Neutral (MEN) which is the electrical standard used in Australia and New Zealand. Here, an RCD makes sense in providing protection should a person come into contact with the ‘live’/phase conductor. However, the outputs from the Bluetti will be ‘floating’ and therefore isolated from earth. It can be treated the same as an old school isolating transformer that Tradies used to use as a protection device back in the day. In this scenario, to get electrocuted you would need to come into contact with both conductors, and in a way where the electrical path is across the chest (so, by holding both wires with one in each hand for example - that would do it). Though it won’t hurt to use an RCD and it is probably a good habit to get into whenever powering appliances outdoors, even from a device like this, it will probably never trip on a single live conductor (through the person) to earth fault and is therefore is unlikely to provide any extra protection.
Keep up the good work.
G.
Couple of points:
AC power in Australia is now 230V. There was a roughly 20yr transition period from 240V to 230V to bring it into line with Europe. So your wall outlet provides 230V now not 240V. Although yes, many DC Inverters output 240V (my 3kW one does).
Also, to recharge your said DC battery with solar you generally can’t just connect a solar panel as you’ll ruin the battery. Typically it’ll need to go through a charge controller (PWM or MPPT etc).
With regard to generators, you could use a diesel generator and thus take the same fuel as your vehicle (or in my case I have a petrol generator and a petrol vehicle). Mind you I don’t take the generator - I have a 300Ah/12V/3840Wh battery + 3kW inverter for travelling.
Last, you need to make it clear that a 100Ah or 200Ah capacity DC battery is only fully usable with lithium batteries. A 100Ah AGM battery for example is good for not really more than 50% of that, being 50Ah. Run it to 0 and you could immediately or soon have serious issues with it.
Another empowering video, thanks!
Thanks for the article. You answered my question about why you wouldn’t just buy a generator if you want to use a number of electrical appliances in your caravan.
thanks john, your video came along exactly when i needed it!
No wukkas, Christopher
Bit of an advertisement - but a solid video... Good call on safety/complete systems... however - if you're looking to extend an existing setup DIY could be an option (if relevantly skilled).
I upgraded the old mans caravan battery - 300Ah 12v LiFePO4 for just under $1,000 (direct import components from known quality Chinese suppliers), it can output 200A (@12v) & drive 2.6kw continuous - enough to run the Caravans 1800w A/C for a bit & 4kwh of storage.
(This is serious business though - welders run at much less currents, knowledge is required!)
Also - Ah is useful when talking about charge/discharge rates. Most LiFePO4 batteries have a 0.5c/1c charge or discharge rate. So a 300Ah battery can supply 3x more power than a 100Ah battery. You'll run something 3x longer sure, but stressing out batteries shortens their life.
Also to extend cycle life dont charge/discharge fully - charge to 3.45v & discharge to 2.8v, depending on the cells it can provide significant increase in cycle life
Stuck my Honda generator away from camp then it miraculously transformed into an Ozito overnight. Amazing stuff!
Go figure.
I recall someone posting something very similar on a previous video on this topic. Was that you too?
Why, yes, it was you. Only last time, it was a bloke you knew... and John also replied to that one. As did I. Deja vu...
Regardless of the endorsed product an excellent guide to planning - as opposed to just plugging sh*t in and hoping!
Thank you John. Another well reasoned, presented and researched video. The world, as we know, will always create a better idiot but this video should save a few lives and prevent some nasty surprises/injuries.
Our power usage is minimal. LED lighting at night recharging of phones so a 100ah lithium with a 200w panel on the roof is fine for us. I do have a 2.2kw Honda Generator that I run solely on LPG and a 9kg bottle will run it for 30 hours if needed(no need for petrol). It’s there for emergencies or a real stinker and we want to run the AC for a few hours. It plugs into the switchboard at home and runs the house as well if required.
Thanks for the quick lesson in regards to computing our power needs, but I find the AC200MAX a bit on the heavy and bulky side. They should redesign it and make it lighter and more portable.
Why doesn’t the black box of tricks not come with an RCD inbuilt. I know some loads will trip an RCD though maybe one or two of the outlets have this feature. Just a proactive thought
Cheerz
Hi John,
I am sure you are aware that most people would be running AGM battery so they really only 50% usable power from their battery. Can you confirm that as the battery is running down while in use, the volts also drop and this is why my 12V portable fridge (set on 2*C is turning off. I have a 120A battery with 20A dc dc charger and 250W solar panel to power a 12V fridge 6A draw on 40*C day.
Really enjoy your videos as they separate fact from BS.
Cheers Rob
Just ordering an emergency back up generator. Petrol.
When I build a shed
I will be looking at the Bluetti stuff.
It will be cheaper to do this with a solar panel than run 150 metres of trench, cabling and extra fuse box.
The petrol generator can still be used when the Sun does not play ball.
Thanks for the great video, I like your content, gift wrapped in a down to earth, practical style. I think it is practical to view batteries, petrol tanks and gas bottles as essentially equivalent, they all store energy that can do work in different ways and contexts. The real advantage of both petrol tanks (on a generator) and gas bottles is they are potentially instantly "recharged", where as the battery will take time. There are disadvantages with petrol and gas, such as noise, locational pollution and heat. I recall watching an episode of QI on TH-cam some time ago, where it was mentioned that back when many suburban households were converting to electricity (called "going on the electric"), the gas companies developed gas powered radios and other small appliances as a way to keep their customer base. Just an interesting anecdote, well to me anyway.
Top review I am buying two tomorrow thanks heaps Love the Show Cheers
G'day John, 1. THANK YOU for all your pre-election efforts alongside Michael West & David McBride, may the progress in Albo's first month be indicative of Albo's first term, particularly with David and every other whistleblower's case 2.THANK YOU for bringing this potential life saver to our attention !!! I have emailed this question to Bluetti but value your objective opinion - experience with the unit, do you reckon I could use the AC200MAX like an Uninterrupted Power Supply for mum's 345 watt oxygen concentrator overnight, ie run the concentrator from the AC200 while having the AC200 plugged in and charging on mains AC at the same time ?
Thinking the AC200MAX + a B300 expansion alongside a standalone oxygen cylinder could cover mum's basic essentials in the event of a 24hr blackout. Thanks again for everything you do good sir, may you be a magnet for nothing but good karma, cheers Mike.
Being a tradie and having to work remote I've set up my vehicle to run the inverter.
2 flexible panels generating real power at 28 amps at 12 volt. 3 x 90 amp batteries that are cold cranking units.....
not deep cycle or AGM. 1 x 2500/5000 watt inverter.
I've run a small welder on this unit. Generally I use it for saws and grinders. It runs my 8 cfm inverter compressor to run my air nailers.
Cost of my set up......batteries $180 x 3, solar panels and regulators, $155 x 2.
Inverted was $390 off ebay......
You come back to a fully charged setup after each smoko? Or don't you work for the government? ;-)
@@TonyRule tools don't use much power. This video shows him using his stuff in the shed.....but in total you're looking at a total run time of maybe 10 minutes.
Tools are not ovens, dryers or air conditioning units, they don't run for hours at a time.
Thank goodness for pure sine wave across the board for these battery banks. Simulated sine wave output can wreck havoc on electronics, such as laptop power adapters and some PC PSUs.
simulated sinewave, or better known as modified sinewave (used to be called stepped square wave) and yes, they can wreak havoc with some devices.
Im am glad to see the specs for the AC300 and the AC200MAX as far as solar input is concerned are MUCH better than the AC200P. The biggest disappointment for the AC200P is the Solar Input. Yes up to 700w, cool, but the min 35v and 12A really is a massive let down. Buyers beware, the AC200P wont charge all that well on majority of off grid solar panels which are "12v" panels.
If you connect 3 of the 12v solar panels in series you'll end up with 36volts. Again, its not about the voltage only, but the power, meaning volts x amps
@@orlandomah1186 Thats all very well, and correct, but your average joe wont know this, thats my point. They will have all these 12v portable panels or already have a system in place, and if they dont read the specs and or fully understand them, then they find out after the fact that they need to change their entire solar setup wiring.
For those of us with potential CTE John ;)
1. My Oztrail 80l fridge I throw in the back of the Triton to go out to DPC is 12v or 240V. How much power will it drain from the Bluetti when plugged into a 12v cig socket v using the 240v socket? I keep reading things about 'losses' and 'efficiency' when converting from DC to AC.
2. A home-built, or commerically installed 12v system, can have a DCtoDC charger installed so it charges from your alternator while driving - can you do or get something similar for the Bluetti??
At least I know and can workout and use Watt Hours now - so you've gotten through to at least one meathead ... well, kinda ;)
This is better than a dual under hood set up. No wiring headaches, no tracing gremlins,
Yes - I agree. Also a lot less defacing the vehicle with holes & screws, etc.
Thanks john i enjoy all of your vids.
Thanks for this video, John. A great demystification of electrickery 😎
No problem, Marcello.
Really interesting and informative 👍 well done John. I'd be interested to see how many beer swilling Hi Lux drivers on path to DPC change their mental state following this episode 😀
Not many - despite the small number of brain cells that need reconfiguring...
Thank you John for another great subject, strangely enough I understood it. ☺.
Thanks for this, it has really simplified it for me, no more amp hours for me. Ive always used amp hours and its always been a head f%$k. Very useful.
Just one point that you did not touch on and that is the real capacity, eg for a 100 AH AGM, the real usable power is only about 50% of that. I think lithium is about 80%. Cheers
Thanks for your report on this.
Ive found it interesting and informing. Keep up the good work mate 👍🍻
No worries, D.
It was a great report and I really enjoyed it. I prefer John’s serious videos over his “Australian!!” type vids but maybe it’s just because Kiwis don’t have the same humour? 🤪
“When using anything for heating use gas”… can you tell that to the tree huggers please
Really good video John, great explanation
Great presentation as always!
Thanks, Niel.
Great vid John!
THANK YOU FOR SHARING THE VIDEO AS A NUMBER GREAT POINT
Was considering the Jackery models, but now looking at the bluetti as option to replace the ageing generator for camping trips.
Damn, how did I miss this episode.
Hmmm, still trying to work out what the 240VAc angle grinder is for on a camping trip, when battery options are so in vogue! Is it to start the Dingo Piss Creek campfire with, sparking it against a piece of steel? Still if you're taking an angle grinder of any sort you should probably revisit your payload requirements, just a thought! At least I agree with gas option for all cooking requirements, but I have to disagree with the generator comments, fundamentally calling them unsafe, they have to meet safety design requirements, such as RCD protection, and if you're wanting to refuel them running or hot, then I suggest a reeducation program or a Darwin award! If your electrical setup is correct with suitable PV supply & charging then there is an aspect about load management which sees the requirement for the generator greatly reduced and in fact it becomes the backup. If your wanting to run the air conditioner all night then I think you should just get rid of the caravan and book a suit at the Hilton, room service included...princess!
Thank you. You explained it perfectly for me.
Looking forward to John's views on the reported scarcity of electricity in the energy rich idiocy that is apparently Australia.
@31:23 There are portable generators that run on LPG. I have a dual fuel generator for my home that will run on gasoline or propane. So electricity from propane on a small scale is doable. Of course, for cooking or heating, it is far more efficient to generate the heat straight from the propane.
When you get lots of rain, get reduced solar input so need to crank up the generator anyway.
Hey john - when we had our campervan conversion the Conversion Company refused to fit a Gas stove so we had to settle for a Mytholated Spirits stove. Yeah it works - but not as rapidly. Gotta' admit methyo is found most places and its reasonably easy to carry.
I use a Coleman Dual fuel stove and love it.
Can run on various fuels including unleaded petrol and they are built tough.
Come in single and twin burner form.
@@oldbloke204 Thanks heaps - mustr check that out!
@@apistosig4173 Snowies outdoors has some videos on them and the guy doing the video has had his for years.
I have the dual burner one and I'm thinking of buying the single for my brother in law.
Plenty of videos on TH-cam about them.
They aren't as quick as gas but very powerful and work in very low temperatures.
Just be aware that they aren't treated like gas stoves in some areas but that would also apply to what you have now.
Best thing is no carting gas bottles/cartridges around in the vehicle.
Good luck with it.
@@oldbloke204 Much appreciated!
John... you should have been a car salesman. I was in the market for something to power a fridge, some lights and cpap for camping.
I was just about to go the route of all in one battery box and inverter with an agm battery. Was hesitant about the 50kg weight and mucking around with a dc to dc charger and any other shit i needed to have hanging out to maintain it. It would mean i would have used it less, for those reasons.
Only problem bluetti need to get more resellers, getting stock locally and on time constraintsmakes it hard being online only. The likes of bcf and anaconda should be their highest priority.
Anyways great work
Hope QLD government has your TH-cam link......
I'm sure the whole government watches...
@@AutoExpertJC I thought they would be too busy watching me to notice you John.🤔😂
".... or if you think like an electricity bill....." 🤣🤣🤣 killed it there John
I recently saw TH-cam dude 8-bit guy make use of the Bluetti as part of keeping power going to his geek cave should the power grid in Texas, where he lives, fill its trousers again.
Well I got the 200W via your link. A couple of things. Firstly most vaners/campers use Anderson plugs. The connectors XT90 and the aviation plug are not easily found but got them on Amazon. So I made a couple of suitable leads.
Really interested in building up the 200W to run the house in the event of an extended blackout.
One thing you need is some type of switch so you can plug the power bank into the switchboard to power the house. Then automatically cutoff when power comes back on.
Curious but when there is a blackout your Tesla etc turn off so you have no power to the house. You’re in the dark with the rest of us. Hence the need for a auto switch referred to above
Early Tesla batteries needed mains connection for some reason but I believe that was fixed fairly quickly.
@@oldbloke204 My understanding is all solar power is switched off by the authority in the event of a failure so the network is uncharged so it can be worked on. This came about most recently in the 2011 flood in QLD when rooftop solar panels were charging away while the rest of the house was underwater. Very dangerous for rescue workers and subsequent trades working on the house
@@scottlearmont4587 Yeah maybe that's the case but the early ones would shut down when the grid was down which defeated the purpose.
@@oldbloke204 Looks like you are correct if you have a batter with the “backup” function the battery will power the house till it runs out.
@@scottlearmont4587 Yeah I was sure about that but the point you made about being able to shut them down may still have some validity, but if the internet goes down, which it usually does in these things then they wouldn't be able too?
Not sure.
I do know that a lot of people think that they have heaps of power with these things but they don't have nearly as much as they think in most cases, especially if they can't be recharged for whatever reason.
Not sold on the idea yet but we have plenty of backups with camping gear, wood stove and other bits and pieces.
Cheers.
Totally excellent video John, even I learned much, regards....The Master
No wukkas, Peter.
If your refrigerator is an inverter model, which all modern refrigerators are, it will not have nearly so much of a surge upon start up
Thanks John, a great video. Thanks. A question, if you plug in a standard 10A powerboard will that be as effective or safe as the RCD circuit, why or why not? Thanks
Just saw the vid, will watch later hopefully.
But 👍 as always.
Thanks John, good info, I’m currently circumnavigating our country in a 7.5 tonne Isuzu truck with slide on.
So I imagine you might revisit this subject again, so my suggestion is to give a little more clarification on the differences between the lead acid/ agm batteries and the lithium batteries, with a discussion on amp hours, that the battery is labeled with,,, as you would know - a 200 amp hour agm is good for about half of that 200, but the lithium is more like 90%. I put my dc clamp on the lead to the inverter the other morning when using our pod coffee maker - it was drawing 170 amps… wow
Thanks JC
No wukkas, Justin.
Good advice to avoid completing a circuit via an untended path. Floating neutral non grounded inverter/gen doesn’t involve the earth. Still good advice to not create a new path through you. More specifically across the heart muscle that uses a really cool cycle of electrical pulses that if interrupted stop the delivery of oxygen to …life.
You didn't mention the inverter losses , running 150W on an inverter might actually be draining ~165w from battery. This is due to the 10% power loss (Average loss) of most inverters.
Great vid, very informative. One question on choosing a suitable battery for purpose, given that lead acid batteries are best not discharged beyond 50% for longevity would you recommend doubling the a/h or w/h rating after intended usage is worked out?
You can't use starting batteries if that's what you're talking about - they're designed and constructed for high-discharge, short-duration loads. But deep cycle batteries are fine for... deep discharge, but they're not good for repeated high discharge rates - horse for courses. Flooded lead-acid, AGM and Gel deep cycle batteries are rated on 20h duty. So a 100Ah will deliver 5A continuously and give the full 100Ah. Go over that and the Ah rating drops (Peukert's Law). But, yes, the bigger the battery, the more cycles (life) at the same loads.
thnaks for the vid love learning about tech
the $899 battery will not run a 2000W inverter as the battery is limited to 100A max discharge
- many diy have been caught out by this lack of discharge ability of the cheeper batteries
Very informative, thank you 👍
Thanks, Ian.
There are LPG Generators. Propare Generators. For 3-4k EUR you have unlimeted electricity. A Honda EU 22i burns just 2 liters of petrol and keeps 2 Big Fat AC Units going for 3 hours. Or a 2 fridges for 5 hours. You can cook for 3 hours non stop or electric barbecue for 3 hours. 5 liters of petrol is not that much and not that heavy. For the dangers of mishandling there is always insurance cover.. The Honda generator is 1,5k EUR cost and I have it maintenance free and it keeps going 5 years now. I checked at HONDA service and the maintenance cost was 5 EUR yesterday and I have 1 year warranty more due to this maintenance.
Hi John, can you look at EV battery replacement costs, purchase, install and disposal cost of the old battery, not much info out there but I did see a telsa battery was 14k just for the battery. Also noted around 240klm's life expectancy for a Tesla battery. I would think resale price would come into real question if you brought a used unit with high kilometres and the cost on replacing the battery after purchase. I guess given the number of EV's coming on the market nowadays nothing is spoken about battery life and change over cost? I will stick to my diesel I think.
Hi John.
1. What’s a: “hell of a big mistake”,?
2. Which is correct:
“where no hole should of been” or
“Where no hole should have been (should’ve) been”?
George Joyce.
1. A rooly big one.
2. A joke from a grammar Nazi.
Do try to keep up.
JC
What about a good smart battery box? Engel series 2 for instance?
Now I am thinking about power like I think about cfm vs psi.
Yeah - it's kinda like that.
Hey John. Any chance you could ask Bluetti to send you their EP500Pro to play with? It looks good on paper as a whole house backup power supply, but I'd love your honest review of it before I drop $8K on it.
Yep. Me too.
yes
Result, as they say on The Sweeney.
On safety.
Many people think a DC battery is safe because they have to put it to their tongue to get a zap.
But if you string a few car batteries together to get 36 volts or double that to work with some inverter systems your neighbours might think you’re having a barbecue when they hear the sizzling and see the smoke as you quickly dump several thousand amp hours through your body in the time it takes a bug zapper to do the same to a moth.
Quite. You can easily kill yourself welding. It's only about 20 volts DC, but at 80-200 amps...
@@AutoExpertJC Yes Being the ground can be very unpleasant
Hi John, cwould you consider doing a video on the recent class action lawsuit against Toyota over DPF’s in Prados and Hiluxes of 2015 to 2020 build?
Just saw the statement at about 18:15 re plugging a PV panel directly to a battery ... DO NOT do this ... we have Solar Charge Controllers for a reason as a DC-DC converter ... let's not start blowing up LiFePO4 BMS' by plugging 35+V "house panel" directly onto 12V terminals ... fair statement in the context of the Bluetti with an "inbuilt" MPPT controller ... I'm normally a fan John, but that one is just dangerous, or very expensive!
Fair point, Jamie. This is the problem with ad-libbing anything for half an hour. I meant philosophically, in the context of not needing to convert the electricity to another form, and as you said, the Bluetti has an inbuilt solar controller, as would any other professionally designed system, so in that respect, the panels do go straight on (to the system). I agree I should have said that better. Sorry about that.
Also with the DC-DC charger can charge from the alternator when driving from camp-site to camp-site.
Your point about cooking with gas is well taken. I'm a stubborn piece of shit and I'm going to see how I go without it for a week as a test run. If there were many mouths to feed and boiling rice and pasta was on the agenda, then using gas would be optimal, no question.
But, ts just me and the dog. His meals aren't cooked and mine is only cooked for one meal a day. I'm more interested in keeping the supply of energy to to my fridge and my coffee machine 🤤😅
Excellent explanation video. Thank you
They do make small diesel generators you know.
If you have a 2000 watt device you do not want a 2000 watt inverter to power it.
You will want a 2400 watt inverter. Even if a 2000 watt inverter has double that in surge capacity it will likely trip out or cook if it has to operate at maximum capacity constantly for more than five minutes for a good one and one minute for a garbage one and it will often take three to seven minutes to boil a full kettle.
Also a 2000 watt load will not pull 2000 watt from the battery. The inverter will also pull whatever it takes to convert the 12 volt dc or more to the required ac output.
There are off grid appliances that use direct dc and gas to power themselves with either internal inverters or by using DC capable motors.
If you were to go full off grid for your home you would best look into DC appliances and lights to reduce the energy losses caused by converting power types.
I wish I could find a micro Diesel generator, but a small Honda or Hyundai inverter generator is so light that the 50+ kg saved over a Diesel unit represents a lot of payload available to carry petrol.
@@philhealey449 The smallest I've seen are two or three times the size of some of those little inverter ones. I have seen them built into the front back and sides of vans and RV's
@@anomamos9095 Yes that's the challenge. Dometic, Fischer Panda etc are golliaths, I acquired a broken Harrington "Lightweight Field Generator" to play with, but that's a 2 man carry. The Honda i10 plus a 2kW Victron Multiplus and 100Ah of 24 V battery looks a good bet on the RV front where daily driving or PV can't keep up with usage. Home needs a Lister Start-O-Matic for when the balloon (imminently?) goes up !
Watching your story on battery packs ,in my working life I have done a great deal of site work all along the east coast and west Queensland using diesel/petrol gen sets . To get the earth leakage to work we had to physically take ground the gen set ,one site we had a young engineer just out of uni ,more degrees than a thermometer no experience saying we had to have an earth stake 1.5 mtrs into the ground not a good practice in a water treatment plant ,wouldn’t know what is down there ,cables etc . Question have these units got a earthing terminal .John.c
All right, I’m not very mathematically astute. So I still can’t work out which one I need for 3 days for a 35lt fridge, some LED light strips and charging laptop and devices
Perfect timing 😅