Would it have cost Yamaha that much more to add a removable panel on the bottom, I feel like every receiver and amplifier should have removable panel on the bottom.
Yes, is should be forced by law. There is an "right to repair" movement going on, and the companies should be forced not to make repairs more expensive on purpose, as in this case. It doesn't help if the fault is a simple solder joint, if the repairman has to spend 1-2 hours taking the whole thing apart and back together again.
@@runepedersenDK I work for a stereo repair shop and we basically gave up working on any multi channel surround sound receivers. At some point in the mid to late 1990s *everything* went to not having removable bottom panels. Everything. All makes and brands. It's just not practical to take them apart and fix even the simplest of problems, when even a simple repair is likely to take 2 hours or more. Once they started expanding the units from 5 channels to 7 and added HDMI inputs the complexity and the jumble of circuit boards inside a case of roughly the same size as the earlier models just made servicing them in a reasonable time frame impossible. If a problem occurs on the digital board, in most cases you had to replace the entire board which could cost $150 or more just for the board. You can buy a basic surround sound receiver as a replacement for about $300. Not to mention that all the manufacturers started using lead free solder, which is far more troublesome and prone to failure than lead solder. We had been a Yamaha factory authorized warranty repair service center for years, but we dropped their warranty repairs. The unfortunate side effect of that is if you stop doing warranty repairs for manufacturers, they usually will not sell you parts for out of warranty repairs either.
A viewer sent me what is on looking like a big receiver. Put a big value on a broken piece that is costing him 260 in taxes. Hope I can fix it because he spent a ton of money to send it and i warned him before sending that I may not be able to do anything.
Most Yamaha units have a selectable mode for 5 channel stereo or 7 channel stereo where all the surround channels put out a stereo audio signal without any processing ( plus a combined mono center-channel) , so in theory you could use one of the other rear channels ( or both rear channels) in order to get 2 channel output from the unit, ignoring the defective, distorted channel, but unfortunately, in most cases all 5 or all 7 channels are not exactly identical and the surround channels will have limited bandwith/ frequency response, therefore not fully hifi and won't put out as much power.
My disassembly method for this type of repair is to remove the bottom plate. First the front & rear panels must be removed (or loosened sufficiently) to free up the bottom plate. The one downside of this is that the (very heavy) main power transformer winds up “free floating” so I have to be careful not to damage its connecting wires. But this does provide full access to the audio power amplifier PC board & it permits easy probing & testing. I avoid separating the power transistors from the large heatsink. In other words I disassemble from the bottom up rather than from the top down. Most of the Japanese & other Asian audio manufacturers started using this “one piece” wrap-around bottom plate design in the mid 1980’s.
Time is money. In this case there is no money in repair so this is how it has to be done. It is do this or the unit gets tossed out and he buys an old receiver from me for 40 bucks.
This is one way of getting access to the bad joints. As said below, lead free solder is reknown for causing many faults. If only they still made the gear that is designed for servicing, sadly most from this era and on are not intended for repair.
I have a Yamaha ax 900U and I'm having intermittent Left Channel Distortion I don't know what the hell to look at could it be the same type of thing that you're showing here possibly I don't know maybe I need some deoxit somewhere any help would be appreciated thank you sir
Got to do what you got to do. It's not like I'm being paid to do it this was a free repair and I'm spending as little time as possible fixing it up because I really don't give a crap this unit was headed to recycling.
I have the same issue, on RX-v481D but on all of my channels, same kind of noise/distorted sound, but yesterday suddenly the receiver worked after the receiver had been on for a while and today the when I turned it back on problem was back, Any advice ?
I like Yamaha kit. Well made and sounds great. If I knew what was wrong with it, I would then think it worth taking it apart and fixing it properly. Fair enough it is not worth fault finding it for too long but it could have been around for years if all the solder joints were reflowed :(
I have been on a pioneer today for about 8 hours and still have no clue why it has no sound. Fixed the ,main fault and chasing ghosts now. Have already lost my shirt on this one.
I hate the intermittent problem, where the problem does not show up when it is in your possession. But as soon as the owner gets it back, it pops back up. Use all the tricks, heat, cold, shake, bonk, wiggle, slam, look, feel, smell, and no clue.
I hate asking but I do watch all your videos for clues and education. Anyway I have an onkyo tx sr601 from 2002 or so that I've owned since new and the right channel isn't working. If I put into test mode on that channel and turn it way up the channel will come back and sometimes stays on and sometimes will go back out. Just curious for any advice from anyone out there.
When did the lead-free solder start being used in manufacturing? Would the fault in this Yamaha have been the result of the lead-free crap? I have an original Sony PlayStation 3 (Fat model) that has this crap solder used and it has a well known fault when it heats up and starts flaking out. Never did get around to trying to attempt a fix. It’s the model will full backward compatibility with the older PS2 games which was dropped in subsequent PS3’s. Thanks for the content, Dave…good job👍
Yes I have the same ps3. Mine hasn't been used in years. Worked the last time it was turned on so should still work. Will play PS1 PS2 and PS3 games and has Blu-ray player. Lead free is likely the cause. It worked when it left here and didn't work when got home.
@@eDoc2020 That's right, Europe spoiled the party while for years they were pumping out the filthiest cars and trucks on the planet and it took a couple of college kids to catch them cheating. Funny how they were worried about a little lead in solder all the while killing the planet with oil burning diesel engines.
Yamaha probably was thinking, Hey our products are so good, we don't need the access lower door anymore. Dave, I was wondering, do you think over the years you have removed/replaced over a million screws by now?
Well nowadays you ain't supposed to repair things. And not even last more than a few years. Sell sell and sell and fill up the landfills with working devices. It's mental. 🥺
The only reason that products in the past were repairable was, well first they were not as reliable as today and the government required that manufactures stand behind their products. Back when I started in the repair business, 1983 companies were required by law to provide parts and service information, and to make those parts available for 10 years after the model went out of production. So every specialized part had to be stocked and enough spare parts kept on hand to repair every unit that was likely to fail for 10 years. Then they reduced it to 7 years, followed by 6 years, then 3, and then none. This added huge costs to the price of everything. I remember 20" Sony televisions selling for 800.00 and stereo TVs selling for 1000. If you wanted the KP20XBR that would cost you 1299.95 and the KV25XBR was north of 2000.00. The manufactures lobbied the relaxation of these requirements claiming that it was keeping prices artificially high. Of course this was a protectionist move aimed at the Japanese manufactures to try and keep the domestic manufactures afloat, because the Japanese were very good at dumping product below cost just to harm domestic companies. It wasn't long after the last remaining domestic manufactures shut down domestic production that these tariffs and restrictions started coming down. The manufactures started just replacing defective products. It was far cheaper to just replace with same or like model than it was to have all these warehouses stocked with many parts that would never be needed. They stared by shutting down regional parts stores, and centralizing. Sony did this in the late 90's. All the parts started coming out of Kansas City. They let go the staff that ran the parts dept. A few years later they just stopped supporting the service industry completely. This was two folded. One was the cost of stocking parts, and service data. The other was the cost of training techs to service this new gear, but the main reason was because of the complexity of modern stuff. The cost of test equipment to even troubleshoot it had far surpassed what the average service people were capable of dealing with. It because a board swap and that was just too costly. I outright refuse to repair multi channel receivers. I stick to 2 channel, non digital receivers, where there is a chance to service them. I get the feeling that a receiver that is sitting at the post office with a 260 import tax bill will be such a unit. Why is there a 260 tax bill? Because the person shipping a broken and quite likely repairable piece of equipment put a 1400.00 value on it, and canada revenue agency sees that as an import as in a sale, and accesses federal and provincial tax and broker fees. Had it been send with a declared value of 0, or for repair, it would have crossed the border with no fees.
No, it was Yamaha just being cheap assholes. They saved them self the cost of 4 screws to make the panel accessible. Sony did it right, with a panel that the service tech could cut 4 tabs and it would open up. Turn the access panel around and put a couple of screws in to reattach it. They even had the holes for the screws punched. Would have cost them nothing but to put a few cuts in the base as they were manufacturing it. Yamaha were the first to cheap out and everyone else followed quickly.
access hatches! Modern microwaves still do that even even the cheap-ass ones that are suposed to be throwaway items to get at the turntable motor Then you turn the hatch 90degrees and atach a screw after you have nipped the corners off
First of all he probably saved the guy a lot of money by making that little hole in the bottom and it's really not a big deal who looks down there anyway
Worked for awhile but because he had it out side at his bbq a family if spiders moved inside and one night he fired it up, flames and smoke shot out and the screams of thousands of spiders being electrocuted. He didn't bribf ur back. Didn't want to invest my place with spiders. Threw it away.
That's what we get when customers throw away good working sets, and want cheap new receivers. Then the manufacturers start reduce the serviceability, "because they are just thrown in the garbage and never repaired" Yamahahaha realised this early on, sadly the others follow suit. Sad
Hmm crappy design, no heatsink bracing at all ! So the big heatsink can waggle side to side, designed to fail. My ancient pioneer SA-706 has a trap door, but the outputs are plugged into big sockets. Nothing ever failed, well thats a lie, one of the meters bulbs failed, big deal lol.
On RXV599 you will find thin alu ribs instead of proper extrusion, with its lower intrinsic heat capacity. So, then you have 14 complementary pairs at the bottom and then 8 or 9 TO220 voltage regulators closer to the top. It shoots to boiling hot in minutes, when cycled at 1/3 power with 2 channels driven, so no wonder one of 7805s failed, shutting down the entire unit. Designed for use in a fridge.
Then I would never get anything done. This is a temporary work space. I have a nice room, inside where there is heat, and air conditioning awaiting me. As soon as my grown up son does what his sister did and move out. I have been waiting for years for that room that he has taken over to play video games in.
This kind of receiver which is designed to be thrown in the trash when it breaks should never be manufactured in the 1st place. Allowing companies to build products that cannot be efficiently repaired and end up getting thrown in the trash prematurely is a big part of our pollution problem in modern society.
@@Trucam2020 , I repair audio equipment for a living, and so I am more than aware of the aggravation that goes into trying to fix anything like this. Replacement surround sound receivers are so inexpensive that with typical labor costs of $75 an hour or more it just doesn't pay to fix older surround sound units like this. I really hate to see them go into the landfill or even get scrapped as E- waste because the reclamation and recycling process itself tends to be polluting and some of the raw materials just aren't practical to try and recover.
Too bad so sad. The owner is happy. That's all that matters. I would have been happy to open it up and fix it if he was willing to pay 100 or more for the time but he wasn't. So he gets a free repair and a hole in the bottom.
@ Sky o'reece It isn't on the front panel, no one would even know the bottom was cut unless you showed it to them. SERIOUSLY it is not a big deal. You want to repair it without cutting, knock yourself out see if you still feel that way because you caused more damage taking out thin boards and cracked a slew of solder joints due to the flexing of the circuit boards. Dave already stated if the guy wanted to pay he would have happy to disassemble it, but nope he didn't want to pay anything. It works and that's the main thing.
Imagine if your mechanic made a hole in your car dashboard to fix your engine just because he couldn't be bodered to take the engine out. 😅
Hilarious, can’t stand the heat of the kitchen get out!
If they asked first I wouldn't have a problem with it. I'd rather have a patched up hole where it's not super visible than pay $$$ in shop labor.
This is not an heirloom piece anyways. Using and leaving it outside its sort of close to being crap anyway.
This is about cost. If a customer doesn't want to pay, then don't fix. Electronic repair is an expensive job. Tools are expensive.
Exactly and the repair was free.
Would it have cost Yamaha that much more to add a removable panel on the bottom, I feel like every receiver and amplifier should have removable panel on the bottom.
Yes, is should be forced by law. There is an "right to repair" movement going on, and the companies should be forced not to make repairs more expensive on purpose, as in this case.
It doesn't help if the fault is a simple solder joint, if the repairman has to spend 1-2 hours taking the whole thing apart and back together again.
@@runepedersenDK I work for a stereo repair shop and we basically gave up working on any multi channel surround sound receivers. At some point in the mid to late 1990s *everything* went to not having removable bottom panels. Everything. All makes and brands. It's just not practical to take them apart and fix even the simplest of problems, when even a simple repair is likely to take 2 hours or more. Once they started expanding the units from 5 channels to 7 and added HDMI inputs the complexity and the jumble of circuit boards inside a case of roughly the same size as the earlier models just made servicing them in a reasonable time frame impossible. If a problem occurs on the digital board, in most cases you had to replace the entire board which could cost $150 or more just for the board. You can buy a basic surround sound receiver as a replacement for about $300. Not to mention that all the manufacturers started using lead free solder, which is far more troublesome and prone to failure than lead solder. We had been a Yamaha factory authorized warranty repair service center for years, but we dropped their warranty repairs. The unfortunate side effect of that is if you stop doing warranty repairs for manufacturers, they usually will not sell you parts for out of warranty repairs either.
A viewer sent me what is on looking like a big receiver. Put a big value on a broken piece that is costing him 260 in taxes. Hope I can fix it because he spent a ton of money to send it and i warned him before sending that I may not be able to do anything.
Most Yamaha units have a selectable mode for 5 channel stereo or 7 channel stereo where all the surround channels put out a stereo audio signal without any processing ( plus a combined mono center-channel) , so in theory you could use one of the other rear channels ( or both rear channels) in order to get 2 channel output from the unit, ignoring the defective, distorted channel, but unfortunately, in most cases all 5 or all 7 channels are not exactly identical and the surround channels will have limited bandwith/ frequency response, therefore not fully hifi and won't put out as much power.
My disassembly method for this type of repair is to remove the bottom plate. First the front & rear panels must be removed (or loosened sufficiently) to free up the bottom plate. The one downside of this is that the (very heavy) main power transformer winds up “free floating” so I have to be careful not to damage its connecting wires. But this does provide full access to the audio power amplifier PC board & it permits easy probing & testing. I avoid separating the power transistors from the large heatsink. In other words I disassemble from the bottom up rather than from the top down. Most of the Japanese & other Asian audio manufacturers started using this “one piece” wrap-around bottom plate design in the mid 1980’s.
Time is money. In this case there is no money in repair so this is how it has to be done. It is do this or the unit gets tossed out and he buys an old receiver from me for 40 bucks.
I can't wait for the third installment 🙃😁
As long as it's not one of those situations where you fix one problem, then another shows up. :) I've had that so often.
That's what's called getting married to it.
@@12voltvids Ha ha, Nice one. :)
I have a pioneer receiver, and it doesn't want to give out audio on one of the channels.
This is one way of getting access to the bad joints.
As said below, lead free solder is reknown for causing many faults.
If only they still made the gear that is designed for servicing, sadly most from this era and on are not intended for repair.
I have a Yamaha ax 900U and I'm having intermittent Left Channel Distortion I don't know what the hell to look at could it be the same type of thing that you're showing here possibly I don't know maybe I need some deoxit somewhere any help would be appreciated thank you sir
That thumbnail is gonna make some people mad 😂
Good. Owner didn't care. It is a back yard stereo to listen to the radio at the bbq.
Now that is one crude way of gaining access to the bottom of the board in that amplifier.
Got to do what you got to do. It's not like I'm being paid to do it this was a free repair and I'm spending as little time as possible fixing it up because I really don't give a crap this unit was headed to recycling.
I have the same issue, on RX-v481D but on all of my channels, same kind of noise/distorted sound, but yesterday suddenly the receiver worked after the receiver had been on for a while and today the when I turned it back on problem was back, Any advice ?
I like Yamaha kit. Well made and sounds great. If I knew what was wrong with it, I would then think it worth taking it apart and fixing it properly. Fair enough it is not worth fault finding it for too long but it could have been around for years if all the solder joints were reflowed :(
I have been on a pioneer today for about 8 hours and still have no clue why it has no sound. Fixed the ,main fault and chasing ghosts now. Have already lost my shirt on this one.
No kidding! "I use to hate servicing these units", added another 2 hours of work.
I despise them.
How much could it cost have An access panel on the bottom ' how hard is it
Tuts at Yamaha no bottom panel to remove.
I hate the intermittent problem, where the problem does not show up when it is in your possession. But as soon as the owner gets it back, it pops back up. Use all the tricks, heat, cold, shake, bonk, wiggle, slam, look, feel, smell, and no clue.
I hate asking but I do watch all your videos for clues and education. Anyway I have an onkyo tx sr601 from 2002 or so that I've owned since new and the right channel isn't working. If I put into test mode on that channel and turn it way up the channel will come back and sometimes stays on and sometimes will go back out. Just curious for any advice from anyone out there.
Gently tap on the speaker relay, if that makes a difference either clean the contacts or replace the relay.
You can learn a lot from 12voltvids, and from this video learn how not to fix anything.
When did the lead-free solder start being used in manufacturing? Would the fault in this Yamaha have been the result of the lead-free crap? I have an original Sony PlayStation 3 (Fat model) that has this crap solder used and it has a well known fault when it heats up and starts flaking out. Never did get around to trying to attempt a fix. It’s the model will full backward compatibility with the older PS2 games which was dropped in subsequent PS3’s.
Thanks for the content, Dave…good job👍
Yes I have the same ps3. Mine hasn't been used in years. Worked the last time it was turned on so should still work. Will play PS1 PS2 and PS3 games and has Blu-ray player.
Lead free is likely the cause. It worked when it left here and didn't work when got home.
It lead-free was probably introduced on a wide scale between 2003 and 2006 due to the European Restriction of Hazardous Substances directive.
@@eDoc2020 That's right, Europe spoiled the party while for years they were pumping out the filthiest cars and trucks on the planet and it took a couple of college kids to catch them cheating. Funny how they were worried about a little lead in solder all the while killing the planet with oil burning diesel engines.
Yamaha probably was thinking, Hey our products are so good, we don't need the access lower door anymore. Dave, I was wondering, do you think over the years you have removed/replaced over a million screws by now?
Probably lost a million screws 😂
Well nowadays you ain't supposed to repair things. And not even last more than a few years. Sell sell and sell and fill up the landfills with working devices. It's mental. 🥺
No access is to prevent any 'unauthorised' repairs 😔
Right To Repair.........
DENIED... Nearly 🤣
Nice one 12voltvids
The only reason that products in the past were repairable was, well first they were not as reliable as today and the government required that manufactures stand behind their products.
Back when I started in the repair business, 1983 companies were required by law to provide parts and service information, and to make those parts available for 10 years after the model went out of production. So every specialized part had to be stocked and enough spare parts kept on hand to repair every unit that was likely to fail for 10 years. Then they reduced it to 7 years, followed by 6 years, then 3, and then none. This added huge costs to the price of everything. I remember 20" Sony televisions selling for 800.00 and stereo TVs selling for 1000. If you wanted the KP20XBR that would cost you 1299.95 and the KV25XBR was north of 2000.00.
The manufactures lobbied the relaxation of these requirements claiming that it was keeping prices artificially high. Of course this was a protectionist move aimed at the Japanese manufactures to try and keep the domestic manufactures afloat, because the Japanese were very good at dumping product below cost just to harm domestic companies. It wasn't long after the last remaining domestic manufactures shut down domestic production that these tariffs and restrictions started coming down. The manufactures started just replacing defective products. It was far cheaper to just replace with same or like model than it was to have all these warehouses stocked with many parts that would never be needed. They stared by shutting down regional parts stores, and centralizing. Sony did this in the late 90's. All the parts started coming out of Kansas City. They let go the staff that ran the parts dept. A few years later they just stopped supporting the service industry completely. This was two folded. One was the cost of stocking parts, and service data. The other was the cost of training techs to service this new gear, but the main reason was because of the complexity of modern stuff. The cost of test equipment to even troubleshoot it had far surpassed what the average service people were capable of dealing with. It because a board swap and that was just too costly. I outright refuse to repair multi channel receivers. I stick to 2 channel, non digital receivers, where there is a chance to service them. I get the feeling that a receiver that is sitting at the post office with a 260 import tax bill will be such a unit. Why is there a 260 tax bill? Because the person shipping a broken and quite likely repairable piece of equipment put a 1400.00 value on it, and canada revenue agency sees that as an import as in a sale, and accesses federal and provincial tax and broker fees. Had it been send with a declared value of 0, or for repair, it would have crossed the border with no fees.
No, it was Yamaha just being cheap assholes. They saved them self the cost of 4 screws to make the panel accessible. Sony did it right, with a panel that the service tech could cut 4 tabs and it would open up. Turn the access panel around and put a couple of screws in to reattach it. They even had the holes for the screws punched. Would have cost them nothing but to put a few cuts in the base as they were manufacturing it. Yamaha were the first to cheap out and everyone else followed quickly.
access hatches!
Modern microwaves still do that even even the cheap-ass ones that are suposed to be throwaway items to get at the turntable motor
Then you turn the hatch 90degrees and atach a screw after you have nipped the corners off
Yes
looks like some alien blood has eaten through the bottom - Ripley isnt far...
As your customer, I would be upset with you.
Good thing you aren't my customer. He was tickled to get it working. So there.
I hate when I have to disect a piece of equipment to get to a part that is known to commonly fail,and yes,Time is Money 💰
Want to hear something funny. Water got spilled into it on the weekend just after fixing. Aparantly sparks and flames shot out of the top.
First of all he probably saved the guy a lot of money by making that little hole in the bottom and it's really not a big deal who looks down there anyway
Worked for awhile but because he had it out side at his bbq a family if spiders moved inside and one night he fired it up, flames and smoke shot out and the screams of thousands of spiders being electrocuted. He didn't bribf ur back. Didn't want to invest my place with spiders. Threw it away.
That's what we get when customers throw away good working sets, and want cheap new receivers. Then the manufacturers start reduce the serviceability, "because they are just thrown in the garbage and never repaired" Yamahahaha realised this early on, sadly the others follow suit. Sad
Good intuition.
i knew it would come back lol
You need a Dremel
I have one but no metal cutting wheel for it. Considering this is a free repair I can't justify buying a new cut off wheel.
If you do that you'd end up with lots of tiny metal dust which could just come back and cause problems.
@@eDoc2020 That too.
@@eDoc2020 That is what they make magnets and vacuums for. I have had good experience with the magnets.
Hmm crappy design, no heatsink bracing at all !
So the big heatsink can waggle side to side, designed to fail.
My ancient pioneer SA-706 has a trap door, but the outputs are plugged into big sockets.
Nothing ever failed, well thats a lie, one of the meters bulbs failed, big deal lol.
It is braced on both sides.
On RXV599 you will find thin alu ribs instead of proper extrusion, with its lower intrinsic heat capacity. So, then you have 14 complementary pairs at the bottom and then 8 or 9 TO220 voltage regulators closer to the top. It shoots to boiling hot in minutes, when cycled at 1/3 power with 2 channels driven, so no wonder one of 7805s failed, shutting down the entire unit. Designed for use in a fridge.
@@12voltvids it wasn't good enough then.
The lack of a service panel is stupid.
@@zx8401ztv and yet people defend them for doing this.
Won't be a 3rd.
Break and entry repair LOL
I love it
Dude maybe you should straighten up your work bench just saying lol
Then I would never get anything done. This is a temporary work space. I have a nice room, inside where there is heat, and air conditioning awaiting me. As soon as my grown up son does what his sister did and move out. I have been waiting for years for that room that he has taken over to play video games in.
Bench looks ok. Maybe a couple shelves or drawers would help him.
This kind of recevier need to throw away into the trash........
This kind of receiver which is designed to be thrown in the trash when it breaks should never be manufactured in the 1st place. Allowing companies to build products that cannot be efficiently repaired and end up getting thrown in the trash prematurely is a big part of our pollution problem in modern society.
@@goodun2974 you are right but the repairs men work a lot to dis-assemble this kind of craps.2
@@Trucam2020 , I repair audio equipment for a living, and so I am more than aware of the aggravation that goes into trying to fix anything like this. Replacement surround sound receivers are so inexpensive that with typical labor costs of $75 an hour or more it just doesn't pay to fix older surround sound units like this. I really hate to see them go into the landfill or even get scrapped as E- waste because the reclamation and recycling process itself tends to be polluting and some of the raw materials just aren't practical to try and recover.
sorry but that i would not be happy with, thats poor ...
Too bad so sad. The owner is happy. That's all that matters. I would have been happy to open it up and fix it if he was willing to pay 100 or more for the time but he wasn't. So he gets a free repair and a hole in the bottom.
@ Sky o'reece It isn't on the front panel, no one would even know the bottom was cut unless you showed it to them. SERIOUSLY it is not a big deal. You want to repair it without cutting, knock yourself out see if you still feel that way because you caused more damage taking out thin boards and cracked a slew of solder joints due to the flexing of the circuit boards.
Dave already stated if the guy wanted to pay he would have happy to disassemble it, but nope he didn't want to pay anything. It works and that's the main thing.
@@darinb.3273 Exactly. Why risk creating my ore headaches.