What many people have not realize when fighting in space, is that it would be very difficult to determine the location of your enemies, when fighting on the ground, you just gotta either look behind, ahead, or to your sides, and maybe occasionally look up. But in space, since you could be anywhere, and since there ain't any gravity, you could say, float above your target several hundred miles away. So you would have to constantly at all directions constantly, and if you're in a giant mecha, at least depending on it's surveilance and detection scanners or whatever equivelant they have, then it would still be hard to find out where you need to shoot
Even in Thunderbolt, a decidedly pro-EF series, EF MS are always killed in such droves. It always irked me considering during the later parts of the war, the EF had more experienced pilots on hand while experienced Zeon pilots were running out. The arc where the EF uses teens to pilot all those suits which get mostly slaughtered is just laughably bad. Like, these aren't run of the mill GMs, which MIGHT have made sense, but upgraded GMs with custom and likely expensive equipment.
The feds probably sent inexperienced pilots because they don't care about the thunderbolt sector, most of the veteran pilots are probably sent somewhere tactically important, thunderbolt is before the battle of A Baoa Qu so the feds probably kept the veteran pilots in reserve for that operation.
@@lag2182 There's literally nobody else to pilot them. They just got a bunch of kids fresh out of college, trained them to pilot a MS as best they could, slapped officer tags on them, and sent them out to fight. You might think that's crazy, but that's exactly how they did it in Vietnam. In fact, they had way more pilots than planes for most of the war, and in the early years of Vietnam, it was a meat grinder. Lots of pilots were being shot down by more experienced Soviet pilots.
I always thought TB was pretty Pro-Zeon tbh. Only watched the movies but Daryl was the main focus and had a lot more humane moments. Io had his moments but TB gave the impression of Zeon having the Amuro and the EF having the Char for once, which makes more sense when the Perfect Gundam and Zeong are brought into the fray.
@@bellgrand You'd put them into balls not gms. Besides the federation isn't that desperate for kids, plenty of adults still laying around. Vietnam always had conscription problems. Even in Stalingrad the civvies were digging trenches and helping bandage not directly fighting on front lines.
Look on the bright side. They got one MS who probably is living with the regret he killed and is about to be killed by kids. Compare this to the Windam who serve as target dummies and would probably die to the GM Cannon kids while their beam rifles and nukes hit nothing
To be fair from their lack of discipline and young appearances it's implied that they were supposed to be like young probably just barely got out of mobile suit training
Imagine being in space were beam weapons have the advantage, and your entire group is getting wiped out not by beam weapons but by a first generation Zaku machine gun.. I didn't even know they still made those.
You know, for gms said to rival the dom in terms of armor and mobility, my dissapointment is immeasurable in thunderbolt Maybe this is where all of zeon’s planned gelgoog pilots went- kicking cannon ass in thunderbolt while leaving their own noobs to their own probs
Zeon's Living Dead Division is a dump for crippled pilots, (only having to assume defensive positions) so them having experienced pilots isn't suprising. the Dom pilot does kick ass in a Gelgoog later on.
The pilots were literally children and they were up against veteran pilots with more skills that even a zaku could snipe them from afar with just it's 120mm rifle, it's not a matter of the GM being actually inferior to the Dom it's a matter of experience, with the right pilot under the right training with enough experience they could pilot a ball or a g fighter and still take out a squad of zaku's it's simply a matter of experience, if those GM's had veteran pilots they would be able to wipe the enemy quite easily rather than overwhelm them with numbers which will work, which is what the Federation tactics rely on, simply mass producing and fielding out more pilots to combat to send out in waves that's how they defended Jaburo and that's how they took A baoa qu meaning the GM is still a superior mobile suit in terms of mass production compared to the earlier zaku II's and it's variants, the rick doms, the later produced gelgoogs, or even against mobile armors because in sheer numbers with the kind of armor and weaponry the GM's carry compared to what Zeon has which relies mostly on projectile weapons instead of firing beams, Zeon would have lost because that's like mobile suits made to fight battleships against mobile suits with the capability of a single salamis class destroyer designed specifically for mobile suit combat, Zeon never stood the chance
@@Memelord1117 TBF, the fight was pretty even. Daryl only "won" because Zeon reinforcements showed up after he and Io had pummeled their MSs into a non functional state.
0:57 Imagine being this guy, just... cleaved in half by an enemy MS's melee weapon. Not even a beam saber or anything like that, but a heat hawk. The sheer intense... well.. heat it puts out while melting through the armour and internals would be enough to cook skin through sheer proximity. Even if you died instantly after the blade cut through you, the intense pain before hand would be agonizing. Edit: and the MS doesn't even explode afterwards, if, against all odds you survive being cut in half, whatever short time you have left would be in utter agony because of constant burning sensation that the cross section cauterization would have caused, not just through your skin, and muscle, but your internal organs. That pilot was still screaming after his MS was cut in half, he did not die quickly or painlessly.
Honestly if its hot enough to cut through titanium that quickly, you probably wouldn't even feel it... because all of your nerve endings have already burned away. You'd just pop like a balloon. Although that doesn't make it any better.
GMs are as delicate or bulky as the plot demands lol, I swear most are pretty good or at least decent grunt suits but so many gundam writers just have them die in droves so their fav zeon suits can look good
The Japanese are still bitter about losing WW2. You can tell this in how the allies and any analog (like the federation) are always depicted exactly as they were in period propaganda; Meek and cowardly. When it turned out that wasn't true they severely beat and executed any PoWs.
@@u.npeacekeeperball432 Experience has nothing to do with MS tankiness. You could put Char on Honda Camry and he wouldn't be able to withstand a tank shells.
@@dudududu1926 Why, of all things are you comparing a car to a mobile suit? There are many factors, and Char is a newtype for one, also he is speed. Red Comet goes zoom zoom. And experience does have some play in combat. It's like giving kids an M1A1 Abrams, while giving veterans a T72B3. Who would win? Obviously the veterans, with their given experience, expertise and comfortability with their ergonomics. The kids are obviously gonna fumble and panic.
The GM cannons are some of my favorite, even if they are getting wrecked I just love to see them on screen. The Original animal gave it all the love it needed😂
Between the Zaku & Dom pilots. They took out 13 suits on screen. The Zaku claiming 7, the Dom claiming 6. If you apply that to modern day tank organization structures. A tank platoon being 4 tanks. That's 3 platoons with a +1.
Who would win? A MS that is legitimately statistically superior to drop kick Zaku and blast them to reminisce the end of Zeon all over again, in the hands of a special unit. Or one old Le Chonk with a Ratatatatat
@@a.p.studios8713probably because the cannon and the beam saber mount took up space on the backpack. But yeah your point still stands, they could've atleast moved the BS mount from the backpack to the hip skirts then add a sub arm, and there is no excuse for removing the core block when normal Thunderbolt GMs have them.
you are actually kidding me with how the GMs and Guncannons basically just get insta killed by machine guns, while a zaku can literally tank 30 beam shots before it goes down, sometimes zeon plot armor really takes me out of UC stuff.
@@Fulcrox being a trained veteran doesn't make it so that your machine somehow has much more armor than it should, the spray gun can still penetrate a Zaku, and the beam sniper rifle that the guncannon has, has more power than the gundam's rifle.
@@TheKusa5 as You can see, Recruits werent even properly using the Guncannon beam cannon, some just spamed the spray gun while the Zaku Pilot could take the inmobile targets with no issue
Every Gundam anime ever does this and it drives me nuts. Why did basically every GM that got hit instantly explode, but a Zaku getting hit took like 20 shots to rip it apart? Also the grunts of the Federation always get roflstomped to make the Gundam seem more badass?
Its called concentrated fire, that Zaku pilot knew where to shoot and so did the Dom pilot, you CLEARLY see the literal children piloting GMs and Guncannons missing and hitting other parts of the Zaku. Pay attention to where its being hit instead of 'omg they instantly die!!!'
Its just the usual butthurt over losing WW2 that basically every post-Tomino series and manga oozes of. They portray the figurative allies exactly like they were in Japanese propaganda of the time and it's also how they portray them in other Japanese WW2 era media. The Germans could at least get over themselves to and make amends with their victims, the Japanese have steadfastly refuse to do either.
@@KokuoriThere were multiple parts where they were shot in the arm and just exploded. The Zaku took a beam to the upper chest and was fine. Stop acting like the Zeke’s are the underdogs here because it’s very clear that the writers always prefer them.
@@FederationMS787 I mean, ever since Unicorn everything's become incredibly Zeon apologist and every new production wants to heavily revise the OYW to pretend Zeon didn't commit a ton of atrocities like genociding entire Sides of colonies, and that it wasn't instantly on the back foot the moment the GM rolled out and flipped who had the technological advantage: from superior performance, more abundant resources, and more powerful weaponry. Plus the skill and experience gap rapidly began to shrink as valuable skilled Zeon pilots started die off while the Federation's skilled roster could only expand with its plethora of Type 61 crews and Saberfish pilots itching to have the equipment playing field leveled (such as Blue Destiny's Yuu Kajima, whose primary motivation is a thirst for power born from his feelings of helplessness against the abilities of a mobile suit without having their own equivalent) The basic production line GM had superior specs and armaments than everything Zeon had but for the Gelgoogs, which came out too late and in too few of number to make a difference; but in basically everything made now, they clearly want to make it look like the Zaku II was still better (but GM canonically had nearly double the acceleration power in addition to tougher armor). The moment you turn your brain back on from any of these shows, you'd have to wonder how we're expected to still believe Zeon is actually losing the war and rapidly being backed into a corner when all we ever see is entire fleets being destroyed by a single Zaku or Rick Dom. Thunderbolt gets to hide behind being an alternate depiction, as does Origin, but they don't go so off the rails as to change the critical moments- they don't go Ghiren's Greed and entirely change the course of the war- Zeon's still losing while somehow utterly dominating every battle we get to see.
@@jakobvonbugmann of course both side have plot armor especially the gundam but I’m saying the zeon grunt have more plot armor then the federation grunt
@@redlightu all zeon have been fighting is tank and aircraft easily for most of the one year war what experiences is that I say the federation have way more experience because most of the gm pilot are fighter jet pilot and have air superiority over the zeon during the one year war it just that the director is a massive zeon fan
@@FederationMS787 Experience is experience, even Zeon pilots mostly familiar with fighting against Federation tanks and aircraft would still come out on top against the kid recruits we see here. Besides, the Living Dead Division had been fighting in the Thunderbolt sector for awhile anyway.
@@redlightu I just hate how every grunt suits in UC seem to be oneshotted by any type of beam weapon. At that point why even bothered with building MS anymore,
had a love-hate relationship towards Thunderbolt, when the animaton has the viable for being a grounded Gundam series, but tends not to do so and test the charts of disbelief.
@@AtheAetheling Nah. Piss off with that crap. The feds were conducting blockades, trade embargoes, and a host of unequal treaties on Zeon before the war, essentially conducting economic coercion and political bullying. Zeon had every right to fight for their sovereignty and pride, and every right to drop a colony and commit every bloody payback on the feddies. The only war crime Zeon committed was losing the war.
You can say that again that last scene the Guncannon Pilot didn't check check if there were any people inside and just use the Beam Saber kill a bunch of people.
@@CaptainIchimaruGin No it was very checked and deliberate. Crew behind Cornelius was transmitting the room to the team outside; the people killed by that beam saber were poised to detonate the whole ship, their hands were literally on the trigger. That Cornelius almost had them actually talked down, well, that was never part of the plan as he found out the hard way.
@@gtf234 Damn talk about brutal as that just scared the survivor to the point where she mentally reduce to a child. It would have being less scaring if the GM Cannon just blast the ship with the cannon it has on the shoulder.
@@CaptainIchimaruGin the reason gm didn’t blow the ship because they intended to capture the ship since there mother ship was destroyed and there running out of oxygen the the girl and her friend was gonna blow themselves up
They're probably a bit older than that. But it's something the Federation officers are constantly saying through the Gundam series: They're drafting children to fight in this war. Also, it's not even a stretch. In Korea and Vietnam, the average age of flight officers was around 20. Get em fresh out of college, train them for 9 months to fly a plane, and throw them into combat against experienced Soviet pilots. WW2 was even worse. The enlisted crew of those bombers were barely adults.
GMs in series and movies: Cannonfodder that explode from a single hit of a zaku mg. GMs in lore: Streamlined, mass production version of the Gundam, some with thinner luna titanium armor, faster, more maneuverable, and better armored than Zakus, arned with bean spray gun that by all accounts should destroy a Zaku II in a single hit...
And as usual the Damn Zeon Plot Armor, allows Even Disabled pilots to be “ The Bested Pilots Evea!” Notice how the feds are so easily destroyed by a couple of hits, when it takes dozens of hits, even with beam weapons to destroy a single Zaku?? Now that is some serious BS!!
The original Gundam universe was created during the heydays of the Tiger Tank myth. The GMs were the Shermans who allegedly were being killed at a 4 to 1 ratio to German tanks. This is now know to be untrue historically, but that myth had been transposed into the UC Gundam world and remained as a relic. Basically Zeon had been given perceived German technical superiority, before we realised it was grossly exaggerated.
At this point, they should stop using GMs as it will explode by one shot from any random MS or whatever they come across. Those writers are ridiculous.
are we sure this isn't a au where the eff and zeon's people switcheds roles cause i really feel like the full armor gundam pilot is char and the psycho zaku is amuro
It is literally an AU. The first movie feels like it could easily be a normal side story. But once you read past that it becomes completely incompatible with normal UC.
Alright, kids. Allow me to give you a lesson 101. The Federation is using CHILD soldiers in mass. Wooo! Go federation! I see a lot of comments about how thunderbolt is "Zeon" bias. How exactly? From what I've saw: - Bias because Zeon should have never survived 30 shots from a beam spray gun. - Zeon armor too strong - They had numbers and GM armor is strong. Let me address the first issue. The beam spray gun, "... has an effective range less than the beam rifle, it is still capable of penetrating the armor of a Dom, which is said to be the most heavily armored unit throughout the OYW. In the novelization of the series, at short ranges the GM's beam spray gun was said to be more powerful than even the Gundam's beam rifle." SHORT ranges kids. It had a short barrel and could only be effective at shorter ranges. It's like saying a 9mm Glock 22 can do effective damage to a target at around 800 meters compared to a 5.56mm M4A2 Carbine. NO. The HK416 Carbine is obviously the better contender. Compare this idea to the BEAM RIFLE and BEAM SPRAY GUN. Additionally, it wasn't 30 shots. It was around ~5 shots total. Now onto "Zeon armor too strong" and "They had numbers and GM armor is strong". Yet, the RGC-80, "is one of the mid-range support mobile suits deployed by the Earth Federation Forces.[1] It shares about 60% of its parts with the GM (Thunderbolt Ver.) and uses the same handheld armament.[1] While the GM Cannon (Thunderbolt Ver.) appears to be a cannon-type configuration of the GM (Thunderbolt Ver.), **it is actually classified as simplified mass production version** of the RX-77 Guncannon (Thunderbolt Ver.)". SIMPLIFIED mass production version. Thus meaning, the Federation was focusing on QUANTITY than QUALITY. The same is stated for the MSG lore page. It's like having M4 Shermans (meant to be mass produced) up against a Tiger I. Obviously the Tiger I would win, no doubt (without the War efforts and crazyness, just one on one). Now even if you pin 30 Shermans to a Tiger I and Tiger II, their 76mm cannons likely won't be adequate in penetrating the armor of the Tiger I and Tiger II. Now apply this logic with the video. The GM Cannon is meant to be mass produced and shared parts with the RGM79 GM. Meanwhile, the Zaku II (from the MSG lore page), "could run at a speed of 85 km/h, leap 100m into the air with the use of its thrusters, and lift around 80-90t of weight with one hand. Its thrusters had a thrust of 45 tons. Though its punch had a force of 560t, doing so risked severely damaging its manipualators. Instead it more frequently used the spike armor on its left shoulder for shoulder tackle, which had a force of 4,500t." The Zaku II was ahead of its time. The Zeon development of Mobile Suits were far superior than the Federation. Why did you think they needed AE to develop their mobile suits for them? Why did you think AE hired Zeon mobile suit designers and engineers after Zeon collapsed? The "M-120A1 / ZMC38III" or simply the common Zaku Machine Gun was able to fire a variety of rounds. It purpose was versatile, "Its drum held 145 rounds.[1] Its rate of fire was 280 rounds per minute, with an effective range of 4,200m on the ground when using the laser-linked scope. It could fire a large variety of rounds, including APHE rounds, anti-ship AP rounds, shaped charge rounds, smoke rounds, signal rounds, flare rounds, and tracer rounds.[5]". Yes, I stated APBC, but it seems it was APCR rounds, I apologize. But again, the main weapon of the Zaku II was, again, ahead of its time. the APCR round was able to, "to be fired at a higher velocity. It has a much higher penetration than the Ap-3, and since it was primarily used in space, the greatest weakness of APCR shells - low velocity over long distances in the atmosphere - is not a problem". Note the "primarily used in space" part. It had a higher velocity which means a higher penetration. The same can be said with the U.S Naval railgun; its round is only 30mm and it speaks to armor like butter. The Zaku Machine Gun can also fire, "APHE rounds, anti-ship AP rounds, shaped charge rounds, smoke rounds, signal rounds, flare rounds, and tracer rounds". Now try applying that to the Federation's Beam Spray gun that has only three options, "The beam spray gun features three different firing modes: a basic single-shot mode, a burst shot mode for area suppression, and a range shot mode that scatters the beam to cause damage over a wide area. Output 1.4 MW". The Zaku Machine Gun has more purpose and can be used in many different ways than the Beam spray gun. The M120A1 can be used to 1) hunt ships down 2) suppress infantry 3) suppress armor columns 4) hunt down MS 5) provide close support for infantry and much more. What can the Beam Spray gun do? Suppress infantry and mobile suits with their scattering beam; which will do nothing but tickle MSes. A single shot that is only viable in medium-close ranges; a burst mode to suppress infantry, armor, etc. The beams dissipate more in space; unlike physical rounds that could travel forever. Of course, what about "Zeon plot armor!!!". Obviously, the Zeon have tried of Semi-Transparent Coating; which dissipated and reduces the effect/damage on the Mobile Suit. This was used before and within the early stages of the OYW. Thus worth noting that the Zaku II may have had some sort of coating to reduce the effects of the beam spray weapon. Heres the evidence: "emi-transparent coating protect the unit by having multiple layers all reflecting a certain wavelength of light and thus effectively reduces the energy of different laser weapons. This technology is also used in the colony laser Solar Ray, deployed by Zeon forces before the Battle of A Baoa Qu". There you have it. The Zeon used the same technology for their Solar Ray colony. Sources: gundam.fandom.com/wiki/MS-06F_Zaku_II gundam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Universal_Century_Weapons#Beam_Spray_Gun gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Gundam_Wiki:Technology#Mobile_Suit_Technology_-_Construction_&_Coating gundam.fandom.com/wiki/RGC-80_GM_Cannon gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Zaku_Machine_Gun
Dude, you are talking straight out of your ass if you don't think Thunderbolt is Zeon biased. Especially with how much it wants us to feel for the Zeon while demonizing the Federation. And as for some of your talking points: - There's absolutely no mention of the *ENTIRE* Zaku being covered in anti-beam coating, only it's shoulder shield (and that was reported way far up the timeline in 0096 where things like I-Fields exist). That and the coating you're talking about is for *LASERS* and is ineffective against *BEAM AND PARTICLE* weapons. - If you'd branched out your research of the GM beyond your own Zeon bias to the RGM-79's page, you would've also seen that the *BASE GM* was outperforming Rick Doms in space at this point in the OYW. The Zaku II might've been ahead of its time at the beginning of the OYW, but the Federation's mobile suits absolutely dumpstered them in just stats alone (I say stats because the pilot is an external factor that can make or break a unit, i.e. Io taking out several Goufs in only a GM Type-C). - Zeon's development of high-spec and experimental MS's and MA's is one of the primary factors behind why they lost. Manufacturing parts for all of them and shipping them where they needed to go was a logistical nightmare and ultimately bankrupted them in terms of resources. Compared to the GM's which all shared the same general parts and could be easily maintained, even in places that don't typically have more specialized units like the GM Cannon (after all, a base GM can be used to repair a GM Cannon, but a Zaku II can't be used to repair a Dom or Gelgoog). Hell, Zeon didn't really learn that lesson until units like the Geara Doga and Geara Zulu were developed.
Zeon even uses disabled people who have lost limbs as pilots.It's crazy because it's a story about using a wheelchair as a weapon.It's a former kamikaze.
They are not retard like kira yamato. Kira disabled a frikin destroy gundam, and the next scene that same destroy was repaired n slaughter more people.
I dont get why the EFF would give the Moore Bortherhood these expensive to produce and high performance machines?And they're straight up wasting them by assigning kids to pilot them.
Who else would you assign to pilot them? The Federation started mass producing mobile suits ONE MONTH AGO (this battle occurs in December 0079; the first GMs and Guncannons rolled off the line in November 0079; Amuro first pilots the Gundam in September 0079). It seems all of these kids were given basic training and sent out with a more experienced pilot who was likewise given the minimum retraining.
@@bellgrandYes, just ignore the fact that there were a multitude of experienced pilots on Earth that repelled Zeon forces and were ready to move to space.
@@big3201 Setting aside that Thunderbolt is technically not in the canonical timeline, the conflict occurs between Solomon and A Baoa Qu. And Odessa was only six weeks before Solomon, and virtually none of the veterans of that battle fought in Solomon because Earth was still a conflict zone; the 08th MS Team and War in the Pocket occurs in this time period. Virtually everyone in a GM or Ball fighting in space is a kid who has only been through flight school. And to call Federation mobile suit doctrine underdeveloped would be quite charitable. Even in Thunderbolt, Io Fleming is not even an ace or a veteran, but he's the closest thing they have since he was the only one in his unit who made it back (by stealing a Rick Dom, no less).
If a GM performs poorly. It's on the pilot. But really what can you do in a debris field getting sniped from all directions? Unless you're newtype you'll have a hard time figuring where the enemy. That or you're the MC and magically know where everything is.
On the one hand... mobile suits are tanky or delicate as the plot demands, and statistically these models should crap all over the Zeon units fielded here, especially in such numbers. On the other hand, Mobile Suit weapons have pretty much always outpaced armour, and these GMs are being piloted by literal teens or early adults - volunteer students with the absolute bare minimum piloting knowledge versus an experienced force of Zeon pilots who know exactly what they're doing. Hell, these kids are seen treating it as a day trip, taking photos and hanging out. Basically every kill they get is down to luck or volume of fire, and in the plot they are quite literally just a sacrifice play to distract and maybe take down some of the snipers to give the Thunderbolt time to wipe out the opposing fleet.
If you wondering for this long it actually how they setup the output of the gundam beam while zeon train they soldiers hard and long the federation just benefit from numbers making them easy target really in war while they ace pilot got much better suit the regular soldier had to make do with old designs with is gm and it definitely not gonna cut the job
the fact it was bunch of kids thy send to the battlefield and thy was get slaying and the only reason they got the first dude cause he ran out of bullet
The Federation was short on manpower; half the Earth's population died. And barely anybody had experience in mobile suit combat at the time. They were training kids fresh out of college, putting them in new mobile suits, and wished them the best of luck. The ones who survived would stick around as NCOs for the next batch of kids. And this isn't even a new thing. Go look up how old American bomber crews were in WW2; you only needed to be 17. The Soviets were signing up 16 year-olds.
The insane quantity of plot armour of the Zeon suits in this scene Is utterly stupid. Zakus destroying GMs with a single shot of a gun that would require a full drum and taking dozen of beam shots before exploding. Who wrote and made this scene knows nothing about the stats of UC MS
@@u.npeacekeeperball432Relativistic speed means it would be speed of Zaku + speed of bullet - speed of Guncannon, then nothing because bullets don't accelerate after leaving the muzzle. Fuck off with the wank physics, unless Zakus were flying full throttle straight into whatever they're shooting at, which they weren't, at no point would their speed be significant enough to add anything to their bullets. Moreover, the Guncannons were getting blown up from just gettung their heads or limbs destroyed, that's fucking stupid.
![RGM-79 GM [Moore Brotherhood Type] Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/872sDngmxIM/mqdefault.jpg)
![RGM-79 GM [Moore Brotherhood Type] Part 1](/img/tr.png)
![RGM-79[G]E GM EX](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MWgK6uBJqOc/mqdefault.jpg)
What many people have not realize when fighting in space, is that it would be very difficult to determine the location of your enemies, when fighting on the ground, you just gotta either look behind, ahead, or to your sides, and maybe occasionally look up. But in space, since you could be anywhere, and since there ain't any gravity, you could say, float above your target several hundred miles away. So you would have to constantly at all directions constantly, and if you're in a giant mecha, at least depending on it's surveilance and detection scanners or whatever equivelant they have, then it would still be hard to find out where you need to shoot
You must’ve of been the zaku shooting at them
補足として、この場合のジオン側と連邦側の索敵に関する格差もありそうですね。
学徒兵たちは光を発さない小さなザクを発見する必要がありましたが、ザクからは編隊飛行するジムの発見は容易だったはずです。
また、戦闘中もミノフスキー粒子でIFFを光学情報に頼らなければならないため、ジムは友軍機とザクやドムを識別しなければなりませんが、ジオン側にはその作業は必要ありません。
Gunbuster did a good job at depicting this.
It's basically aerial combat
@@strf90105 yup , enemies can come from anywhere
Even in Thunderbolt, a decidedly pro-EF series, EF MS are always killed in such droves. It always irked me considering during the later parts of the war, the EF had more experienced pilots on hand while experienced Zeon pilots were running out.
The arc where the EF uses teens to pilot all those suits which get mostly slaughtered is just laughably bad. Like, these aren't run of the mill GMs, which MIGHT have made sense, but upgraded GMs with custom and likely expensive equipment.
The feds probably sent inexperienced pilots because they don't care about the thunderbolt sector, most of the veteran pilots are probably sent somewhere tactically important, thunderbolt is before the battle of A Baoa Qu so the feds probably kept the veteran pilots in reserve for that operation.
Even Gms are being so rare compared to other weapons in EF navf,why de f they put teens in them?
@@lag2182 There's literally nobody else to pilot them. They just got a bunch of kids fresh out of college, trained them to pilot a MS as best they could, slapped officer tags on them, and sent them out to fight. You might think that's crazy, but that's exactly how they did it in Vietnam. In fact, they had way more pilots than planes for most of the war, and in the early years of Vietnam, it was a meat grinder. Lots of pilots were being shot down by more experienced Soviet pilots.
I always thought TB was pretty Pro-Zeon tbh. Only watched the movies but Daryl was the main focus and had a lot more humane moments. Io had his moments but TB gave the impression of Zeon having the Amuro and the EF having the Char for once, which makes more sense when the Perfect Gundam and Zeong are brought into the fray.
@@bellgrand You'd put them into balls not gms. Besides the federation isn't that desperate for kids, plenty of adults still laying around. Vietnam always had conscription problems. Even in Stalingrad the civvies were digging trenches and helping bandage not directly fighting on front lines.
GM Cannon more like GM Cannonfodder
GetsMassacred
Look on the bright side. They got one MS who probably is living with the regret he killed and is about to be killed by kids.
Compare this to the Windam who serve as target dummies and would probably die to the GM Cannon kids while their beam rifles and nukes hit nothing
To be fair from their lack of discipline and young appearances it's implied that they were supposed to be like young probably just barely got out of mobile suit training
@@lancekidder9011
One of the kids are bound to be a newtype!
@@lancekidder9011 that or the armor plating on their mobile suits have special nanomachines that fluctuate as the plot sees fit lol
The moment you saw the young kids vibing with each other, forming lasting memories, you knew what was going to happen.
Imagine being in space were beam weapons have the advantage, and your entire group is getting wiped out not by beam weapons but by a first generation Zaku machine gun.. I didn't even know they still made those.
This was during (iirc) UC 0079ish. Watch the second season of Thunderbolt and that’s my proof.
plus newtype and magic shit make them all OP... regard what ms they use 😅...
ドイツ軍のエースパイロットが、学生の操縦する20ミリ機関銃を装備した連合軍の戦闘機を、12ミリ機関銃の戦闘機で撃ち落とすのを想像してください。大した不条理は感じないはずです。
@@district3669 にしてもザクマシンガンがgmを玉一発で爆散させる程の火力になってるのはちょっと面白い。見てる感じビームでザクを破壊するには2-3発もかかったのに。
second and third gen machine guns but still same point
You know, for gms said to rival the dom in terms of armor and mobility, my dissapointment is immeasurable in thunderbolt
Maybe this is where all of zeon’s planned gelgoog pilots went- kicking cannon ass in thunderbolt while leaving their own noobs to their own probs
Zeon's Living Dead Division is a dump for crippled pilots, (only having to assume defensive positions) so them having experienced pilots isn't suprising.
the Dom pilot does kick ass in a Gelgoog later on.
@@nicoliedolpot7213 Darryl beats a Gundam too.
To be fair, the Gm pilots were just children, whilst the Dom's pilot is a veteren.
The pilots were literally children and they were up against veteran pilots with more skills that even a zaku could snipe them from afar with just it's 120mm rifle, it's not a matter of the GM being actually inferior to the Dom it's a matter of experience, with the right pilot under the right training with enough experience they could pilot a ball or a g fighter and still take out a squad of zaku's it's simply a matter of experience, if those GM's had veteran pilots they would be able to wipe the enemy quite easily rather than overwhelm them with numbers which will work, which is what the Federation tactics rely on, simply mass producing and fielding out more pilots to combat to send out in waves that's how they defended Jaburo and that's how they took A baoa qu meaning the GM is still a superior mobile suit in terms of mass production compared to the earlier zaku II's and it's variants, the rick doms, the later produced gelgoogs, or even against mobile armors because in sheer numbers with the kind of armor and weaponry the GM's carry compared to what Zeon has which relies mostly on projectile weapons instead of firing beams, Zeon would have lost because that's like mobile suits made to fight battleships against mobile suits with the capability of a single salamis class destroyer designed specifically for mobile suit combat, Zeon never stood the chance
@@Memelord1117 TBF, the fight was pretty even. Daryl only "won" because Zeon reinforcements showed up after he and Io had pummeled their MSs into a non functional state.
0:57
Imagine being this guy, just... cleaved in half by an enemy MS's melee weapon. Not even a beam saber or anything like that, but a heat hawk.
The sheer intense... well.. heat it puts out while melting through the armour and internals would be enough to cook skin through sheer proximity. Even if you died instantly after the blade cut through you, the intense pain before hand would be agonizing.
Edit: and the MS doesn't even explode afterwards, if, against all odds you survive being cut in half, whatever short time you have left would be in utter agony because of constant burning sensation that the cross section cauterization would have caused, not just through your skin, and muscle, but your internal organs.
That pilot was still screaming after his MS was cut in half, he did not die quickly or painlessly.
Honestly if its hot enough to cut through titanium that quickly, you probably wouldn't even feel it... because all of your nerve endings have already burned away. You'd just pop like a balloon. Although that doesn't make it any better.
GMs are as delicate or bulky as the plot demands lol, I swear most are pretty good or at least decent grunt suits but so many gundam writers just have them die in droves so their fav zeon suits can look good
The Japanese are still bitter about losing WW2. You can tell this in how the allies and any analog (like the federation) are always depicted exactly as they were in period propaganda; Meek and cowardly. When it turned out that wasn't true they severely beat and executed any PoWs.
Very true and honestly very boring.
I was gonna say "typical delusional feddie fan" but the "delusional" part would just be implicit.
ベテランの新人狩りの様だ
この様な光景はネットゲームで時折見られる
バトオペの低ランク帯かな？
ベテランでも油断すれば素人数人に負けるしな
@@sexaiekiHnukerushasei 初期のバトオペ２宇宙でほとんどの宇宙慣れしてない人はこんな感じだったな～懐かしい
Zaku: tanks a shitton of fire
Federation ms: zeon pilot farts and takes out taskforce
Zaku: Seasoned fighter
Federation GM MS: Children
GM Cannon*
@@u.npeacekeeperball432 Experience has nothing to do with MS tankiness. You could put Char on Honda Camry and he wouldn't be able to withstand a tank shells.
@@dudududu1926Oh yes he would😂
@@dudududu1926
Why, of all things are you comparing a car to a mobile suit? There are many factors, and Char is a newtype for one, also he is speed. Red Comet goes zoom zoom.
And experience does have some play in combat. It's like giving kids an M1A1 Abrams, while giving veterans a T72B3. Who would win? Obviously the veterans, with their given experience, expertise and comfortability with their ergonomics. The kids are obviously gonna fumble and panic.
サンボル仕様のHGはもっともっと商品化してほしい
サンボルのドムマジでカッコよくて好き。サブマシンガンにヒートホークカッコよすぎ
ブルGとか最高にいかついのに
The GM cannons are some of my favorite, even if they are getting wrecked I just love to see them on screen. The Original animal gave it all the love it needed😂
The Tunderbolt series is the most realistic and best series ever made. My review as a 90s kid and life long gundam fan.
I think it was a strayed into being comically grimdark at times. 8th MS Team and War in the Pocket were much more reasonable.
I could never get into it.
Grimdank @@bellgrand
Between the Zaku & Dom pilots. They took out 13 suits on screen. The Zaku claiming 7, the Dom claiming 6.
If you apply that to modern day tank organization structures. A tank platoon being 4 tanks. That's 3 platoons with a +1.
Who would win?
A MS that is legitimately statistically superior to drop kick Zaku and blast them to reminisce the end of Zeon all over again, in the hands of a special unit.
Or one old Le Chonk with a Ratatatatat
The first zaku, or the newer Rick Dom?
@@Memelord1117 First Zaku
Le Chonk because Sieg Zeon.
0:50
相手パイロットがポンコツとはいえ
一瞬で6機撃墜とか逆シャアのサザビーじゃないんだから…
初心者鯖にゴリゴリのベテランが入ってきたらそりゃ無双できるわな
シャアはベテランにこれだから
Someone explain to me why the heck the *mass produced* gm cannon *army* looks more like standard gms than the actual thunderbolt gms
Feddie corruption at it aagin
@@fatjellyfish9478 so thunderbolt gm managed to core block + sub arms + mass production
*YET THE CANNON IS LITERALLY THE SAME FROM MSV WITH VERNIERS*
Also why dont gm cannons have sub arms when *LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE OTHER MS* uses them?
@@a.p.studios8713probably because the cannon and the beam saber mount took up space on the backpack. But yeah your point still stands, they could've atleast moved the BS mount from the backpack to the hip skirts then add a sub arm, and there is no excuse for removing the core block when normal Thunderbolt GMs have them.
サンボルのザクはビームに耐えすぎてて、ジムがマシンガン数発で沈むのは謎過ぎる
サンボル中域ですから。
サイド7ではザクマシンガン一撃でガンキャノン、ガンタンクが撃破されてました！😂
まぁいくらビームでもスプレーガンだし威力減衰してても不思議ではない
まあどこぞやのゲームではガンダムがザクマシンガンでカンカン撃たれてやられてますし
@@kosaku2445ﾄﾞﾝ!ﾄﾞﾝ!ﾄﾞﾝ! ｶﾝｶﾝｶﾝ！
ﾃﾞｰﾃﾞｰﾃﾞｰ…｢地球連邦軍は、RX-79ガンダムと同時に貴重な実戦データを失った｣
you are actually kidding me with how the GMs and Guncannons basically just get insta killed by machine guns, while a zaku can literally tank 30 beam shots before it goes down, sometimes zeon plot armor really takes me out of UC stuff.
Lol "Zeon plot armor", now that funny
Literally
*Trained Veteran* vs Recruits
reminds me of Russian bias in Warthunder
@@Fulcrox being a trained veteran doesn't make it so that your machine somehow has much more armor than it should, the spray gun can still penetrate a Zaku, and the beam sniper rifle that the guncannon has, has more power than the gundam's rifle.
@@TheKusa5 as You can see, Recruits werent even properly using the Guncannon beam cannon, some just spamed the spray gun while the Zaku Pilot could take the inmobile targets with no issue
何でジムが遠距離からのザクマシンガン2～3発で死んで、ザクがジムやキャノンのビーム兵器を何発も耐えるのでしょうね
一つそれなりの説得力をもたせるなら、学徒出陣で動員即投入なムーアの連中に対してジオン側はサンダーボルト宙域で長年戦ってきた歴戦の猛者やから
前者→あっさり急所を射抜かれて即殺
後者→経験活かしてなんとか芯を外したけど結局数の暴力に抗いきれず爆散
ってのはあり得ると思う
囮の数合わせ？の子供に装甲の硬い機体を政府があずける訳が無いからではないですかね🤔💨
自分も違和感はありまくるけど、前者学生がパニックの中次々墜とされる未熟さと惨さ、後者はベテランでも数の暴力には敵わないある種やるせなさが感じられてありと思う
最善の表現じゃないかもだけど作品としては効果的な演出だし、νがアクシズ押すのと似たようなもんだと思っとけばいいんでない？
皆さんのおっしゃりたいこともわからないではありませんが、これだったら連射の利かない近距離ビーム兵器って欠陥兵器になりますねｗｗ
むしろ学徒を実戦で経験を積ませて熟練兵士を育てたいなら生還率を高めるためにザクマシンガンに耐えるくらいには重装甲であるべきですね
こんなにパタパタやられては却ってコストがかかるだけですよ
というか、ガンキャノンって元々ガンダムより装甲が強固なはずなんですけどねｗｗ
ジオン脅威のメカニズム
Yo that Rick Dom went stupid.😂
Every Gundam anime ever does this and it drives me nuts. Why did basically every GM that got hit instantly explode, but a Zaku getting hit took like 20 shots to rip it apart? Also the grunts of the Federation always get roflstomped to make the Gundam seem more badass?
Its called concentrated fire, that Zaku pilot knew where to shoot and so did the Dom pilot, you CLEARLY see the literal children piloting GMs and Guncannons missing and hitting other parts of the Zaku. Pay attention to where its being hit instead of 'omg they instantly die!!!'
Its just the usual butthurt over losing WW2 that basically every post-Tomino series and manga oozes of. They portray the figurative allies exactly like they were in Japanese propaganda of the time and it's also how they portray them in other Japanese WW2 era media. The Germans could at least get over themselves to and make amends with their victims, the Japanese have steadfastly refuse to do either.
@@KokuoriThere were multiple parts where they were shot in the arm and just exploded. The Zaku took a beam to the upper chest and was fine. Stop acting like the Zeke’s are the underdogs here because it’s very clear that the writers always prefer them.
We need more thunderbolt kits
A guncannon being destroyed by a zaku machine gun, really.
I swear Guncannon are supposed to be tanky mobile suit even the gm cannon can definitely survive that without blowing up dame zeon plot armor
And the zaku can survive multiple cannon and beam until finally destroyed what is this
@@FederationMS787 You say that like every Gundam ever isn’t the plot armor Feddie that wipes a galaxy worth of Zeon MS
@@FederationMS787 I mean, ever since Unicorn everything's become incredibly Zeon apologist and every new production wants to heavily revise the OYW to pretend Zeon didn't commit a ton of atrocities like genociding entire Sides of colonies, and that it wasn't instantly on the back foot the moment the GM rolled out and flipped who had the technological advantage: from superior performance, more abundant resources, and more powerful weaponry. Plus the skill and experience gap rapidly began to shrink as valuable skilled Zeon pilots started die off while the Federation's skilled roster could only expand with its plethora of Type 61 crews and Saberfish pilots itching to have the equipment playing field leveled (such as Blue Destiny's Yuu Kajima, whose primary motivation is a thirst for power born from his feelings of helplessness against the abilities of a mobile suit without having their own equivalent)
The basic production line GM had superior specs and armaments than everything Zeon had but for the Gelgoogs, which came out too late and in too few of number to make a difference; but in basically everything made now, they clearly want to make it look like the Zaku II was still better (but GM canonically had nearly double the acceleration power in addition to tougher armor). The moment you turn your brain back on from any of these shows, you'd have to wonder how we're expected to still believe Zeon is actually losing the war and rapidly being backed into a corner when all we ever see is entire fleets being destroyed by a single Zaku or Rick Dom. Thunderbolt gets to hide behind being an alternate depiction, as does Origin, but they don't go so off the rails as to change the critical moments- they don't go Ghiren's Greed and entirely change the course of the war- Zeon's still losing while somehow utterly dominating every battle we get to see.
@@jakobvonbugmann of course both side have plot armor especially the gundam but I’m saying the zeon grunt have more plot armor then the federation grunt
Cool mobile suits being slaughtered by the dozens
This is a unit worthy the top Feddie aces and this is how it gets treated on screen 😂
To be fair, their being piloted by literal greenhorn children, up against Zeon vets.
Atleast give them shields😢
@@redlightu all zeon have been fighting is tank and aircraft easily for most of the one year war what experiences is that I say the federation have way more experience because most of the gm pilot are fighter jet pilot and have air superiority over the zeon during the one year war it just that the director is a massive zeon fan
@@FederationMS787 Experience is experience, even Zeon pilots mostly familiar with fighting against Federation tanks and aircraft would still come out on top against the kid recruits we see here.
Besides, the Living Dead Division had been fighting in the Thunderbolt sector for awhile anyway.
@@redlightu I just hate how every grunt suits in UC seem to be oneshotted by any type of beam weapon. At that point why even bothered with building MS anymore,
had a love-hate relationship towards Thunderbolt, when the animaton has the viable for being a grounded Gundam series, but tends not to do so and test the charts of disbelief.
Same. It was a bit comical in how grimdark it was.
Thanks for the video
0:43ここのザクなんかの補正掛かってんのかってくらい硬いな…w
ほら..ビームって距離減衰するから威力落ちてるんだよ...
多分この世界線はケツアゴシャアの所。ザクに比べて連邦のMSがヤワすぎる
ﾄﾞﾝﾄﾞﾝﾄﾞﾝﾄﾞﾝ！ｶﾝｶﾝｶｶﾝｶﾝ、ﾄﾞｺﾞｰﾝ！
ﾃﾞｰﾃﾞｰﾃﾞｪｪｪｪｪｪｪｪｪｪ...
（地球連邦軍はRX78ｰ2 ガンダムとともに、貴重な実戦データを失った）
なるほど！
あの世界線ではザクマシンガン数発でガンダムが沈むわけで
逆にビーム射撃が直撃してもかすり傷なザクIIの強さも
説明できますしね😅
ｸｰ↓ｿｰ→ｹﾞｰ↑
やられ千葉ァ！！
ハハッ、あの赤い彗星とやりあって生き残っているとは、ラッキーボーイだぜぃ☆
Jesus rewatching this thoses kids did not deserve any of that absolutely terrifying
Blame the Federation's upper people for allowing this shit to happened.
@@xquisidthe federation had no choice. They use what they have available. Blame Zeon for starting the war.
@@AtheAetheling Nah. Piss off with that crap. The feds were conducting blockades, trade embargoes, and a host of unequal treaties on Zeon before the war, essentially conducting economic coercion and political bullying. Zeon had every right to fight for their sovereignty and pride, and every right to drop a colony and commit every bloody payback on the feddies. The only war crime Zeon committed was losing the war.
The War Crime unit
You can say that again that last scene the Guncannon Pilot didn't check check if there were any people inside and just use the Beam Saber kill a bunch of people.
@@CaptainIchimaruGin No it was very checked and deliberate. Crew behind Cornelius was transmitting the room to the team outside; the people killed by that beam saber were poised to detonate the whole ship, their hands were literally on the trigger. That Cornelius almost had them actually talked down, well, that was never part of the plan as he found out the hard way.
@@gtf234 Damn talk about brutal as that just scared the survivor to the point where she mentally reduce to a child. It would have being less scaring if the GM Cannon just blast the ship with the cannon it has on the shoulder.
@@CaptainIchimaruGin the reason gm didn’t blow the ship because they intended to capture the ship since there mother ship was destroyed and there running out of oxygen the the girl and her friend was gonna blow themselves up
@@CaptainIchimaruGin and the ship the Federation need
Someone pocketed the budgets to the GMC's armor materials
It’s insane that the Earth Federation sends reinforcement pilots of these GM cannons are around 13-14 years olds.
Meanwhile in Zeon: Cadets in Oggo mobile pods
They're probably a bit older than that. But it's something the Federation officers are constantly saying through the Gundam series: They're drafting children to fight in this war.
Also, it's not even a stretch. In Korea and Vietnam, the average age of flight officers was around 20. Get em fresh out of college, train them for 9 months to fly a plane, and throw them into combat against experienced Soviet pilots. WW2 was even worse. The enlisted crew of those bombers were barely adults.
みんな志願者だよ サンダーボルト空域はもともとムーア·コロニーがジオンに破壊されて脱出した難民たちが結成した部隊だし
@@bellgrandAnd least they train them for months. These "pilots" probably didn't finish their one week training yet.
GMs in series and movies: Cannonfodder that explode from a single hit of a zaku mg.
GMs in lore: Streamlined, mass production version of the Gundam, some with thinner luna titanium armor, faster, more maneuverable, and better armored than Zakus, arned with bean spray gun that by all accounts should destroy a Zaku II in a single hit...
ジム・キャノン❤
カッコいいですね😃👍️いいねしました。チャンネル登録させていただきました😃
And as usual the Damn Zeon Plot Armor, allows Even Disabled pilots to be “ The Bested Pilots Evea!” Notice how the feds are so easily destroyed by a couple of hits, when it takes dozens of hits, even with beam weapons to destroy a single Zaku?? Now that is some serious BS!!
The original Gundam universe was created during the heydays of the Tiger Tank myth. The GMs were the Shermans who allegedly were being killed at a 4 to 1 ratio to German tanks. This is now know to be untrue historically, but that myth had been transposed into the UC Gundam world and remained as a relic. Basically Zeon had been given perceived German technical superiority, before we realised it was grossly exaggerated.
Zeeks use physical rounds cus better.
I remember from MS Igloo that all those Fed pilots were children 😢
Its like the anime version of the Tiger tank myth 😂. The GMs took 1 shot while the Zaku needs multiple hits just to be destroyed.
雷霆系列的機設都超帥的呀@@~
帥歸帥劇情要合理 那個防光束的薩克跟被機槍秒掉的吉姆真的很…
01:22 BBQ, well done!
GM canon is actually good grunt unit but with inexperienced kid inside, it sucks.
At this point, they should stop using GMs as it will explode by one shot from any random MS or whatever they come across. Those writers are ridiculous.
This what irks me about the portrayal of the OYW. They ALWAYS show Zeon wrecking the Federation in every battle.
1:21 Beam me up.. Scotty 🤭
1:21 Beam them up Scotty
those poor souls who were given RB-79 ball.......
It always disappoints me when grunt suits are destroyed with such ease by other grunt suits.
These gms were piloted by kids who had very little training mind you.
Dude they literally throw online gaming kids into an actual battle. Think about it
@@RaggenZ The Federation has only been producing mobile suits for one month at this point. They don't have anyone better qualified. Lol.
are we sure this isn't a au where the eff and zeon's people switcheds roles cause i really feel like the full armor gundam pilot is char and the psycho zaku is amuro
It is literally an AU. The first movie feels like it could easily be a normal side story. But once you read past that it becomes completely incompatible with normal UC.
1:22 上手に焼けました
焼けるどころか蒸発してますやん
Alright, kids. Allow me to give you a lesson 101.
The Federation is using CHILD soldiers in mass. Wooo! Go federation!
I see a lot of comments about how thunderbolt is "Zeon" bias. How exactly?
From what I've saw:
- Bias because Zeon should have never survived 30 shots from a beam spray gun.
- Zeon armor too strong
- They had numbers and GM armor is strong.
Let me address the first issue. The beam spray gun, "... has an effective range less than the beam rifle, it is still capable of penetrating the armor of a Dom, which is said to be the most heavily armored unit throughout the OYW. In the novelization of the series, at short ranges the GM's beam spray gun was said to be more powerful than even the Gundam's beam rifle." SHORT ranges kids. It had a short barrel and could only be effective at shorter ranges. It's like saying a 9mm Glock 22 can do effective damage to a target at around 800 meters compared to a 5.56mm M4A2 Carbine. NO. The HK416 Carbine is obviously the better contender. Compare this idea to the BEAM RIFLE and BEAM SPRAY GUN. Additionally, it wasn't 30 shots. It was around ~5 shots total.
Now onto "Zeon armor too strong" and "They had numbers and GM armor is strong". Yet, the RGC-80, "is one of the mid-range support mobile suits deployed by the Earth Federation Forces.[1] It shares about 60% of its parts with the GM (Thunderbolt Ver.) and uses the same handheld armament.[1] While the GM Cannon (Thunderbolt Ver.) appears to be a cannon-type configuration of the GM (Thunderbolt Ver.), **it is actually classified as simplified mass production version** of the RX-77 Guncannon (Thunderbolt Ver.)". SIMPLIFIED mass production version. Thus meaning, the Federation was focusing on QUANTITY than QUALITY. The same is stated for the MSG lore page. It's like having M4 Shermans (meant to be mass produced) up against a Tiger I. Obviously the Tiger I would win, no doubt (without the War efforts and crazyness, just one on one). Now even if you pin 30 Shermans to a Tiger I and Tiger II, their 76mm cannons likely won't be adequate in penetrating the armor of the Tiger I and Tiger II. Now apply this logic with the video. The GM Cannon is meant to be mass produced and shared parts with the RGM79 GM. Meanwhile, the Zaku II (from the MSG lore page), "could run at a speed of 85 km/h, leap 100m into the air with the use of its thrusters, and lift around 80-90t of weight with one hand. Its thrusters had a thrust of 45 tons. Though its punch had a force of 560t, doing so risked severely damaging its manipualators. Instead it more frequently used the spike armor on its left shoulder for shoulder tackle, which had a force of 4,500t." The Zaku II was ahead of its time. The Zeon development of Mobile Suits were far superior than the Federation. Why did you think they needed AE to develop their mobile suits for them? Why did you think AE hired Zeon mobile suit designers and engineers after Zeon collapsed?
The "M-120A1 / ZMC38III" or simply the common Zaku Machine Gun was able to fire a variety of rounds. It purpose was versatile, "Its drum held 145 rounds.[1] Its rate of fire was 280 rounds per minute, with an effective range of 4,200m on the ground when using the laser-linked scope. It could fire a large variety of rounds, including APHE rounds, anti-ship AP rounds, shaped charge rounds, smoke rounds, signal rounds, flare rounds, and tracer rounds.[5]". Yes, I stated APBC, but it seems it was APCR rounds, I apologize. But again, the main weapon of the Zaku II was, again, ahead of its time. the APCR round was able to, "to be fired at a higher velocity. It has a much higher penetration than the Ap-3, and since it was primarily used in space, the greatest weakness of APCR shells - low velocity over long distances in the atmosphere - is not a problem". Note the "primarily used in space" part. It had a higher velocity which means a higher penetration. The same can be said with the U.S Naval railgun; its round is only 30mm and it speaks to armor like butter. The Zaku Machine Gun can also fire, "APHE rounds, anti-ship AP rounds, shaped charge rounds, smoke rounds, signal rounds, flare rounds, and tracer rounds". Now try applying that to the Federation's Beam Spray gun that has only three options, "The beam spray gun features three different firing modes: a basic single-shot mode, a burst shot mode for area suppression, and a range shot mode that scatters the beam to cause damage over a wide area. Output 1.4 MW". The Zaku Machine Gun has more purpose and can be used in many different ways than the Beam spray gun. The M120A1 can be used to 1) hunt ships down 2) suppress infantry 3) suppress armor columns 4) hunt down MS 5) provide close support for infantry and much more. What can the Beam Spray gun do? Suppress infantry and mobile suits with their scattering beam; which will do nothing but tickle MSes. A single shot that is only viable in medium-close ranges; a burst mode to suppress infantry, armor, etc. The beams dissipate more in space; unlike physical rounds that could travel forever.
Of course, what about "Zeon plot armor!!!". Obviously, the Zeon have tried of Semi-Transparent Coating; which dissipated and reduces the effect/damage on the Mobile Suit. This was used before and within the early stages of the OYW. Thus worth noting that the Zaku II may have had some sort of coating to reduce the effects of the beam spray weapon. Heres the evidence: "emi-transparent coating protect the unit by having multiple layers all reflecting a certain wavelength of light and thus effectively reduces the energy of different laser weapons. This technology is also used in the colony laser Solar Ray, deployed by Zeon forces before the Battle of A Baoa Qu". There you have it. The Zeon used the same technology for their Solar Ray colony.
Sources:
gundam.fandom.com/wiki/MS-06F_Zaku_II
gundam.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Universal_Century_Weapons#Beam_Spray_Gun
gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Gundam_Wiki:Technology#Mobile_Suit_Technology_-_Construction_&_Coating
gundam.fandom.com/wiki/RGC-80_GM_Cannon
gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Zaku_Machine_Gun
I ain't reading ALL of that.
@@H20-d1e
Just read the sources then good sir.
bruh you got issues
@@f.b.l.9813 no u
Dude, you are talking straight out of your ass if you don't think Thunderbolt is Zeon biased. Especially with how much it wants us to feel for the Zeon while demonizing the Federation.
And as for some of your talking points:
- There's absolutely no mention of the *ENTIRE* Zaku being covered in anti-beam coating, only it's shoulder shield (and that was reported way far up the timeline in 0096 where things like I-Fields exist). That and the coating you're talking about is for *LASERS* and is ineffective against *BEAM AND PARTICLE* weapons.
- If you'd branched out your research of the GM beyond your own Zeon bias to the RGM-79's page, you would've also seen that the *BASE GM* was outperforming Rick Doms in space at this point in the OYW. The Zaku II might've been ahead of its time at the beginning of the OYW, but the Federation's mobile suits absolutely dumpstered them in just stats alone (I say stats because the pilot is an external factor that can make or break a unit, i.e. Io taking out several Goufs in only a GM Type-C).
- Zeon's development of high-spec and experimental MS's and MA's is one of the primary factors behind why they lost. Manufacturing parts for all of them and shipping them where they needed to go was a logistical nightmare and ultimately bankrupted them in terms of resources. Compared to the GM's which all shared the same general parts and could be easily maintained, even in places that don't typically have more specialized units like the GM Cannon (after all, a base GM can be used to repair a GM Cannon, but a Zaku II can't be used to repair a Dom or Gelgoog). Hell, Zeon didn't really learn that lesson until units like the Geara Doga and Geara Zulu were developed.
Let's not ignore the pilots are literally children
That's normal for federation
Most adult's had been killed at rhe start if war.
If you saw how down bad the federation and zeon were doing each other you would see why almost every soldier on both sides is a child
Zeon even uses disabled people who have lost limbs as pilots.It's crazy because it's a story about using a wheelchair as a weapon.It's a former kamikaze.
1:21 They were vaporized from above, their brain did not have time to process anything at all, they died clean and quick.
すごい戦場のリアル感がある動画ですね👍
I noticed in this anime they sure do enjoy going straight for the pilot rather immobilize the mobile suit huh?
They are not retard like kira yamato. Kira disabled a frikin destroy gundam, and the next scene that same destroy was repaired n slaughter more people.
ビームサーベルでの直火焼きは良い映像だよな。
普段MS同士でしかやり合わないから、血生臭さが薄いが、本来はこういうことが出来る兵器だってのを思い出させてくれたわ。
I dont get why the EFF would give the Moore Bortherhood these expensive to produce and high performance machines?And they're straight up wasting them by assigning kids to pilot them.
Who else would you assign to pilot them? The Federation started mass producing mobile suits ONE MONTH AGO (this battle occurs in December 0079; the first GMs and Guncannons rolled off the line in November 0079; Amuro first pilots the Gundam in September 0079). It seems all of these kids were given basic training and sent out with a more experienced pilot who was likewise given the minimum retraining.
The AI program that supports the aircraft was created by young soldiers from another unit, and is commonly known as the Rocking Horse.
@@bellgrandYes, just ignore the fact that there were a multitude of experienced pilots on Earth that repelled Zeon forces and were ready to move to space.
@@big3201 Setting aside that Thunderbolt is technically not in the canonical timeline, the conflict occurs between Solomon and A Baoa Qu. And Odessa was only six weeks before Solomon, and virtually none of the veterans of that battle fought in Solomon because Earth was still a conflict zone; the 08th MS Team and War in the Pocket occurs in this time period.
Virtually everyone in a GM or Ball fighting in space is a kid who has only been through flight school. And to call Federation mobile suit doctrine underdeveloped would be quite charitable. Even in Thunderbolt, Io Fleming is not even an ace or a veteran, but he's the closest thing they have since he was the only one in his unit who made it back (by stealing a Rick Dom, no less).
These GM are being used by rookie pilots. Thats one of the reasons why they got there ass kicked.
原作のコアブロックで漂流中に敵発見した少年兵が「僕だって英雄になるんだ！」って言った直後に無慈悲にやられるの興奮した。同士おるはず
If a GM performs poorly. It's on the pilot. But really what can you do in a debris field getting sniped from all directions? Unless you're newtype you'll have a hard time figuring where the enemy. That or you're the MC and magically know where everything is.
On the one hand... mobile suits are tanky or delicate as the plot demands, and statistically these models should crap all over the Zeon units fielded here, especially in such numbers.
On the other hand, Mobile Suit weapons have pretty much always outpaced armour, and these GMs are being piloted by literal teens or early adults - volunteer students with the absolute bare minimum piloting knowledge versus an experienced force of Zeon pilots who know exactly what they're doing. Hell, these kids are seen treating it as a day trip, taking photos and hanging out. Basically every kill they get is down to luck or volume of fire, and in the plot they are quite literally just a sacrifice play to distract and maybe take down some of the snipers to give the Thunderbolt time to wipe out the opposing fleet.
残った少年兵達はその後、どうなったんだ…
確かスパルタンに来た美少女以外全員戦死したんやなかった？
@@ノワール-k3o 捕虜とかじゃないんだ
Child soldiers 🗿
bodied by a crippled Zaku and a lone Dom
連邦軍もGackt動員をしていたのかな？
Wasn't the GM Cannon Production Limited
こんなガキンチョ達でさえガンキャノンやジムキャノンで出れるなんて、やっぱり連邦の物量ってすげぇや。イグルーでオッゴに乗ってたジオンの学徒兵と比べれば、だいぶ恵まれてるわいな。
Would U tell me what the title of this animation is?
thunderbolt
I wish more of these, instead they make another witch from the mercury, sigh.
ジムキャノンが配属されるなら
一年戦争後期だと思うのですが
新兵士で構成された部隊なんてむしろジオン側だと思うのですが
どういう世界線なんだろ
サンボルのガンプラまた店に並ばないかなー😢
ジムはビームがかすっただけで爆発するのにザクは何発も耐えるなんて変だろ
🤔
ガンキャノンとかもですねwww
(設定ではクソ厚い装甲)
当たり所じゃない？
@@鈴鹿-z7l
かなり撃墜しているが全機当たり所が良かったと？
ジオンのモブザクにそんなエースパイロットが乗ってるなんて
サンボルもかなりジオン贔屓だからね。味方は主人公以外カスい
リックドムの機動が速過ぎて目で追えない
どんな感じなんだろ？
If you wondering for this long it actually how they setup the output of the gundam beam while zeon train they soldiers hard and long the federation just benefit from numbers making them easy target really in war while they ace pilot got much better suit the regular soldier had to make do with old designs with is gm and it definitely not gonna cut the job
GM are actually pretty good, outperform even dom n rick dom. It perform really bad due to undertrain pilot
the fact it was bunch of kids thy send to the battlefield and thy was get slaying and the only reason they got the first dude cause he ran out of bullet
Why do Earth Federation forces put children in the military when they have no experience in warfare in combat? Is sad
The Federation was short on manpower; half the Earth's population died. And barely anybody had experience in mobile suit combat at the time. They were training kids fresh out of college, putting them in new mobile suits, and wished them the best of luck. The ones who survived would stick around as NCOs for the next batch of kids.
And this isn't even a new thing. Go look up how old American bomber crews were in WW2; you only needed to be 17. The Soviets were signing up 16 year-olds.
This unit was formed by refugees whose home space colony was destroyed. They all lived in this garbage airspace before the war started.
Which gundam is this from
Gundam thunderbolt December sky
0:19-0:24 Average GBO2 teammates be like:
ガンダム大好きだけど、マシンガンチョロっと打たれて爆破するなら、コストの高い量産型のロボット作らなくてよくないかって話になるよな笑
中身少年兵とはいえ、この時期にガンキャノン４、ジムキャ２０、ボール１２も援軍に出してくれるのは太っ腹としか言えない。
0:38のキャノンもろすぎんか
個人的に運悪くバックパックに直撃して誘爆したんだと言う解釈で納得しました。
1:22 Same vibe as bikini girl in victory gundam
pisses me off because they make the federation seem like they're so f****** weak.
Oof GM pilot gets hit head or arm and explodes. Zaku doesn’t explode till it got shot in the torso.
This is how i feel playing Gundam Evolution sometimes. Just pure panic and distress
Lol that game was nothing intense.
이 애니 제목이 무엇입니까?
ガンダムサンダーボルト
@@めるむ-v6e 알려주셔서 고맙습니다
why did it take like at least 4 hits to kill that zaku, this is bullshit plot armor moment. it just bounced off that first beam shot like huh????
The insane quantity of plot armour of the Zeon suits in this scene Is utterly stupid.
Zakus destroying GMs with a single shot of a gun that would require a full drum and taking dozen of beam shots before exploding.
Who wrote and made this scene knows nothing about the stats of UC MS
物量新兵の連邦と歴戦少数精鋭のジオンみたいな感じがする
物量は正義なんだな
エペでいう、ブロンズを狩るプレデターみたいだなあのドム
ジムのビームをやたら耐えたザクは、iフィールド・バリアの発端となる技術が組み込まれたザク2で、見事にビーム兵器を凌いでみせた。
しかしながらザクのエンジン出力では「バリアを展開しながらの戦闘・移動は困難。かつ、展開時間が短すぎ、バリア範囲も狭すぎ」ということがわかり、その後のビグロ開発の参考になった。
とされるワンシーン。
The setting is different from the manga. Zeon was an experimental unit that turned amputees into mobile suit devices.
So the old child soldiers fallback, eh. Always a good sign of a successful military operation.
No, rescue comes and everyone is taken prisoner, but their destination becomes the battlefield of the final battle.
ガンキャノンってガンダムより装甲上回ってるから一撃でやられるはずないんじゃ、、、
量産型だからまぁ…
I what HG of all of them
戦争末期になるとやられ役になるザクを強くしてるサンボルは好き(´ω｀)
The GMs I can understand getting killed by the Zaku machine gun... but the Guncannons should have been able to tank more hits than that.
Physical rounds + APCR + Possibility of realivistic speed method (increase of velocity over time) = dead Guncannons
@@u.npeacekeeperball432Relativistic speed means it would be speed of Zaku + speed of bullet - speed of Guncannon, then nothing because bullets don't accelerate after leaving the muzzle. Fuck off with the wank physics, unless Zakus were flying full throttle straight into whatever they're shooting at, which they weren't, at no point would their speed be significant enough to add anything to their bullets. Moreover, the Guncannons were getting blown up from just gettung their heads or limbs destroyed, that's fucking stupid.
실력이 부족한 애송이들지만, 결국 압도적인 머릿수로 제압을 하고야 말았다
ザクマシンガンで撃墜されるのはおかしいと言ってる人いますが
直撃を受けて耐えれるのはガンダム とガンキャノンぐらいですよ
ジムだとシールドで受けるか角度付けて装甲で受けるかの二択です
ザクマシンガンは戦艦にもダメージを与えれ当て方次第では撃墜できます
バトオペ2にこのジム・キャノン（TB）は実装されてないな…。増加装甲や肩部スラスターユニットを見るに性能は向上してそうだが…？
バトル用の装備じゃないよ
デブリ帯をアクセル踏みっぱなしで駆け抜けるためのシールドだよ
ゲーセンやと湾岸ミッドナイト