most definitely.. the kings.. although my absolute favorite soundtrack of theirs is Hyper Duel on the saturn and i dont know if there is any FM synth in that.. but i know elemental master does and its peak, up their with thunder force 4
For just a moment, the thought crossed my mind, "I miss the overhead stages." Then I saw you playing through a couple, and I remembered. Having to duck in and out of visual range of the ground turrets, poking my way close enough and timing my shot rhythm to hit it with a bomb, making sure I'm still paying attention to those sky-level barriers, hoping against hope that I didn't fatfinger a diagonal while trying to get through a narrow passage... No, actually, I really don't miss the overhead stages.
The speed of the oncoming walls was a very harsh lesson for my child self at the time. I definitely stepped away from this game with better reflexes than what I started with.
The overhead stages would've been at least tolerable had it just featured speed options, so you don't have to tap dance the directional buttons just to hit a base multiple times
@@solarflare9078 I actually enjoyed that part of it. Obviously it gave the overhead stages a very different feel to the on-rails side-scrolling. The need to whittle away at bases' defenses is actually a compelling gimmick in its own right. It was the main gameplay loop in some arcade games like _Gain Ground._
Got this at launch Mom came home from work with the system, then took me and my friend back to Toys R Us to pick a couple games Grabbed this and Space Harrier 2 Miss those good ol days. Mom is a gem! When I picked TF2 , she said “I knew you’d want that one!”
That's a good mum. Mine picked up Revenge of Shinobi with my system but yo be fair, she asked the guy in the store. Thank god that guy knew his stuff 👍
I had my own job at the time.. So I bought the system, and all of my games. TF2 was the absolute BEST game out the 52 games Id end up owning. But Space Harrier 2... Wow, was that a horrible Let Down. I was never that much of a fan of the Original... but the Original was LEAGUES better than the Drivel that was SH2. Revenge of Shinobi, and Ghouls and Ghosts, were the next best / most played Carts. Technocop was probably my biggest +$60 regret. I dont even know how that game got put on a store Shelf.. it was so bad. So bad I only played it a few times, before boxing it up forever.
The MD version loses one top-down and one horizontal stage, but does gain additional stage music the X68000 version doesn't have, such as the thumper that accompanies horizontal stage 4 (the level and BGM that would also feature in Thunder Force AC).
@@ealadubh4800 the name for that music track is called “Death’s Face” and it’s an awesome track and one of my favourites from the MD Thunder Force Ii soundtrack.
Very impressive effort by the 16 Bit Sega console to be almost on par with the X68000, which was a home computer in the $1000+ range (back then), The Genesis/Mega Drive was around $200 USD at launch. Thunder Force 2 and Herzog Zwei were my introduction to Tecno Soft. Quality games.
this was one of the first 16 bit games i ever played back at the u.s genesis launch and i was immediately hooked.. i played the sharp x68000 version years later thru emulation and thought it was more difficult in general but still great..
I`m very glad to see battle of the port about thunder force 2 after thunder force 1 last week. Now I am playing thunder force 2 sharp x 68000 version (then the mega drive version is next) and I learned interesting details for myself about this games, thank`s very much for this videos!
The first moment i was like Thunder Force II? Then i saw the cover of it on ur vid and i remembered 😂 BTW, the Pet Shop Boys Concert in Mannheim was great and Neil Tennent teared up a little that many people sung their songs with him almost all the time 😊
Wow, so lucky to attend the concert in Mannheim. I've got my fingers crossed they'll be heading over to Japan early next year or later this year. Neil can get quite emotional at times. It must have meant a lot to him during the concert.
IMO, one of the best Shooters of All Time. Also, some of the best FM video game music, hands down. I think the top view sections were a hair too fast.. and since they were Open-Ended... really needed a Map. Had they made the top view sections more Linear... or included a map / positional locator.. it would have made the game Perfect. The MD version is that version I played as a kid... and it took me like 1 year of On/Off playing, to beat it. I also had to start at the highest level (level 6?) to beat it. One day I vow to beat it from Stage 1. One of the main differences between the Genesis version, and the X68000 version... is the massive boss in the Caves. The genesis versions boss, is like 50 times harder, to defeat... as they made it shoot far more projectiles and lasers. In fact, that boss was so challenging, that in order to beat it... I had to Cheat a little. I was rapidly hitting the Start button on the controller, to quickly Pause and Un-Pause the game... to create a Slow-Motion effect. This was still very challenging to pull off, as its not easy to toggle the start button like that... while also trying to dodge + shoot. It was that Boss, that actually prevented me from beating the game... FAR Sooner. I later tried the x68000 version, briefly... (and I believe I was skipping levels)... and that same boss, was a total pushover, comparatively. The x68000 version also has a few more stages than the Genesis version. The added graphical details were nice... And the sampled voices were easier to understand. I feel as if the difficulty of that Cave boss... Should have been somewhere between the Genesis and x68000 version. As the Genesis version was a hair too hard.. and the x68000 version was much too easy, IMO. Being that it was one of the last Bosses, before the Final stage... it should be a challenging boss. Just not quite as crazy as the Genesis version was. That said... I was much younger... and my gaming skills were likely not as good as my adult self. TF2 is the game I Replayed most, on my Genesis. Even after I defeated it... I would still often fire up a game.. to replay it, because it was just so much fun. I personally hated the sequels. TF3 had far inferior graphics.. and I also didnt like what they did to the powerups, either. The music and SFX, also sounded much more "Muddy" (low fidelity / compressed). I imagine that they reduced the music quality, to make more cartridge space for graphics. Also, Organics like trees, bushes..etc.. dont tend to look very good on the Genesis... due to its limited color palette. As such, they should have stuck with more Mechanical stages, rather than organic stages. I think another thing that sort of k!lled the Top view stages... was the limited range of the B0mbs. For a while... I didnt even realize that the ship was dropping b0mbs... and I had to read the manual, before I realized it. I think it would have been far cooler... if they used a b0mb system that wasnt Automated. That you have to press a different b0mb button... and the b0mbs would travel a lot further.. and with better physics. Since dropping b0mbs would be a litter easier... Either make each target a little stronger... OR.. make the enemies that fly around... a bit more Aggressive. Do that, and add the map.. or make the stages more linear... and you would have an absolutely PERFECT shooter.
Watching this and shitting on the toilette after midinight with my wife and two kids screaming after a 8h drive on a foreign country. Fuck it, I am 45, Its just life and I am a retrogamer.
I played Thunder Force 2 on my switch and it’s quite a brutal game specially those overhead sections I dig the music in the mega drive port which was clearly cut back. Thanks to it. Been only on a 4 Megsbiit cartridge and one thing about the voices in the MD port is that they were Actually the clearest of all the MD Thunder Force games overall the quality of TechnoSoft’s music on the MD is legendary. In fact I would say every single game they did had a legendary soundtrack anyway great Battle of the ports and a nice and unexpected surprise.
So the oldest version is the best version. Loved this game, bought it with my Genesis and played it way more than Altered Beast at the time. Great comparison. Thanks!
Yeah, it's too bad that the Saturn version couldn't be definitive; blending the visuals of the Sharp version with a nice arrange soundtrack option would have been great; the Saturn version being a little more forgiving is a plus in my book.
For a launch year Genesis game (or second year Mega Drive game), the MD port looks amazing. Shame about the Saturn port’s audio though, especially since it was capable of looping audio. Mega Man X4 on the Saturn loops music properly unlike the PS1 and PC versions, for instance.
If there's anything that impressed me about the games in this video, it's the fact that the Sharp version used one of its voice samples JUST to announce the copyright and publishing information. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of that in a video game, not even one that's a stylistic parody.
@mightyfilm If i remember correctly it did it again at the end of the game too. However on the Mega Drive, Mega Turrican also has a spoken presentation credit as well, and it is extremely clear for a MD voice sample.
If you're an American gamer of a certain vintage it was kind of a big deal because it was one of the early Sega Genesis games and it got a lot of coverage in the magazines
I forget how many games I played on the MD that were ports from home computers- so many cool titles from Psygnosis and this one... looking at the MD games running, I feel like you can see subtle details that are different from games developed directly to the platform. Or maybe that's just me.
I’ve always enjoyed this game not quite as much as the later entries I could just never stand the overhead levels I found them very tricky to navigate.
A great battle thanks Mark, I love this game in its Megadrive version, I've played the x68000 game via emulation and it's extras are awesome, like you say though it's much harder and I prefer the easier difficulty of the megadrive, why Sega don't release the Thunderforce games separately or part of a compilation is something I will never understand, I'd buy straight away.
I hear you on the compilation. I have a feeling it's the PS2 TF6 that's stopping them. Emulation for PS2 isn't perfect and I doubt they'd try to report it. Such a shame.
How weird Thunder Force II never received a Sega Ages release on Nintendo Switch but oh well. I know TF II is not looked upon very fondy these days but it's the game that introduced me to the Thunder Force series as my dad got it with the Sega Genesis back when we started collecting video games. It also introduced the horizontal-scrolling stages that later became the series' staple. I'm looking foward for Thunder Force III being featured on the channel :D
Thunder Force III was already covered by AC's video, but there's still IV and V! :) Not that there's too many versions to compare for V, but IV at least has the Saturn and Switch versions with their added content even if the latter's using emulation. Up to him for when/if he decides to cover those though.
The switch version is just emulation on either the PlayStation or Saturn original. I can't remember which. Surprisingly thunder Force V on the Saturn has far batter transparent effects and stable 3D while the PlayStation features higher resolution textures.
@@RetroCore The Switch version of Thunder Force IV afaik emulates the Mega Drive and Genesis ROMs, but hacks in the bonus features from the Saturn version like Styx and Kids Mode at what I'm pretty sure is the emulator level, so you get all of the bonus features and voice samples not interrupting gameplay on top of the original difficulty level with slowdown optionally intact. Even with the reduced slowdown option, though, I do think the Saturn port has it beat out in terms of pure performance. Thunder Force AC got the same treatment too,. tl;dr M2 are wizards and the Switch port is still worth including imo EDIT: And you don't need to 1cc the game to unlock the Styx either.
@@RetroCore Nah. Game developers have been using Transparent / Translucent effects in games, for a very very long time. You can see some of these effects in Sonic, with waterfalls, and the shield sphere. Many games used checkered patterns to make translucent menu bars, and translucent shadows, too. These effects are very easily done... when displaying them on a standard definition CRT TV. You cant see these effects on modern LCDs... or PC monitors... because the Dot pitch of the Shadowmask, is too small. The exception, is if you use some of the better CRT Filter effects... that simulate how a CRT TV works. But even then, its often never as good as a real CRT TV. The main issue would likely have been System Ram. The system can only hold so many things in its memory at the same exact time. The game logic needs to be in ram... as do all of the objects, projectiles, and background tiles... and the music and sound effects are also running in ram too. The only other potential limitation, is the Cartridge (Roms) size itself. Companies would always want to maximize their profits... especially if they didnt know how well a game was going to sell. As such, it would have been very rare for any company to use larger sized (non-standard) Cartridges. Larger carts likely were only ever used in games where it was otherwise impossible to make so many "Cuts" to a game. Maybe one of the Fighting games, for example.
@@johndough8115This being an early release definitely is the culprit here, the developers were not familiar enough with the hardware to program it with transparencies in the background.
@@matthewnikitas8905 Nope. Transparency is not generally created by Programming. Its created using CRT effects... by drawing a checker-board pattern. You see... CRT TVs have very large phosphor pads... and light tends to leak over the "Mask" (Individual Dividers). This causes two pixels that are right next to each other, to "Mix". To make a translucent shadow effect... you simply use the color Black, to make a checkered pattern... and when its displayed on a CRT TV... all of the spaces between the black dots... allows the Background to show through... AND... all of the Black dots... end up mixing / bleeding with the background... to the point where you no longer see any "Dots". The final result... is a Semi-Translucent shadow effect. This isnt just done with black either. You will see a lot of checkered patterns in different colors... to create different color shades (more than the Genesis actually supports), and to create different Texture effects.. As well as to make things more Rounded (intentionally reducing jagged edges), and or more Shaded.
I have a request for a future video: Chip's Challenge I'd like to see how the computer versions hold up to the original Atari Lynx version, and hear what you have to say about the homebrew versions.
Was the PSG always that loud in the Mega Drive version? I don't remember that being the case, but maybe that's because you played it right after the X68k original, which doesn't have any PSG at all. It's unfortunate that Technosoft's sound driver on the MD can't play music and samples at the same time, and honestly makes me wish there weren't any samples at all, because interrupting such amazing music is criminal! I also think the lower quality sound effects actually works in the Saturn's favor, as they're much less obnoxious as a result. Just a shame the CD music doesn't loop properly.
I think their sound drivers couldn't play samples and FM because on the MD or you play with the 6th channel on PCM mode or on FM. That's why it interrups the music, it enters in PCM mode every time a sample plays. Their music it's only FM and PSG, if they decided to use samples for percussions using the PCM mode then the FM part would never mute, only the drums while it plays the voices. That's why.
I guess it depends upon the revision of the hardwrae. Different revisions did have slightly different sound. I'm using an early Japanese model 1 console.
@@zanegandini5350 I think it’s probably to do with the way that TechnoSoft programmed their sound driver for the MD and also a few Sega games had that issue with not being able to play music and voice samples at the same time such as space Harrier II, golden axe and even altered beast had this issue too with the voice samples interrupting the music but one thing about the thunder Force games The Voice samples got progressively worse with each sequel with thunder Force II ironically being the clearest probably due to the fact that they were listed directly from the Sharp X68000 original.
I think this was the second game I owned on the Genesis right after Altered Beast. And as is often the case, the game has never left me since. I think about its music often, and its weird announcements when getting powerups. Learned just a few years ago that it started life as an X68000 game with more robust music (even if I prefer the Genesis version of the drums). Pity about the Saturn port repeating music. There are only 4 levels that technically play forever-surely they could have devoted the lion's share of those 80 minutes of CD audio to those four levels? Seems kind of lazy and shortsighted.
3 I did as part of the Thunder Force AC video. Thunder Force was a Mega Dreamcast ve only game. The emulated ports on switch don't count. So I'll be doing 5 this week 👍
Funny in hindsight the lack of transparency effects on the GEN/MD platform overall since the platform has examples of that very effect. I guess it could be lost for cart space limits if the whole stage was cut but as far an effect it usually comes down to hardware layer limits where the Sharp and SS are much stronger. It was better off with just side scrolling in hindsight, much like Contra it didn't seem like many people ever appreciated differing perspectives so they were doing extra design work for no reason. The majority just want to scroll in one direction and shoot lol.
I'm definitely leaning toward II MD for my favorite version here. Even though the X68000 version is prettier imo, it feels a lot more fair. Then again, i'm not very skilled at shmups 😅 Just one other thing that was missed here: overhead stages have ingame maps on the X68000 version that also tell you where the targets are, which at least make them much easier to navigate. I don't feel that it offsets the difficulty too much though; MD is still more fair imo.
Wondering if you are planning on a remaster for Thunder Force III that could include the switch version of Thunder Force AC that’s worth mentioning and I guess same for the 4th game despite the Sega Ages are emulation but it is do worth talking about. Btw small thing about the 2nd game’s Claw Speed Up power up while it does appear only in this game but the feature did find its way into STYX’s Mass Production Model in IV (Saturn/Switch) and AC (Switch) with a press of the button
I am gonna beat all the Gradius games and the Thunder Force series is the next one that I am going to do. LOL@Saturn being the worst one tho. They were too lazy to have an arranged soundtrack & new voice samples for that version. Sega buying Technosoft was one of the few smart things that company did.
Thunder Force 3 was done a long time ago, and had 60fps and captions, so it doesn’t even need a remaster either Thunder Force 4 had no ports, meanwhile, while Thunder Force 5 only had a Saturn and PS1 version
@@RetroCore You could always redo that one as a remastered version by placing Mega Drive Thunder Force III as the original instead of Arcade Thunder Force AC, since it seems you had to do that back then as it was done when you were only doing original arcade games converted to home systems (but technically this was not), also adding the Sega Saturn version of Thunder Force III since what was included back then was just the Sega Saturn version of Thunder Force AC, and then, maybe including the 3DS version of Thunder Force III and Switch version of Thunder Force AC as well? As those have several differences compared to the originals.
im wonder lost weapons caused the whole game too been absurd hard in the later stages? So if you die, and the sametime the stages was designed with fully powerups in mind and impossible to regain them again? That cause it often impossible to complete. Im hate that kind of gameplay design today. One of the worst im have seen was Altered Beast. lol. absolute a joke of a game if you die on the later levels. etc im newer played any games from this series throught.
Nope. You can easily defeat ANY stage in the game... with the Starting Weapon. TF2 is not like R-Type. In R-Type, when you lose your powerups... its best just to reset the game, and start from scratch (which is why I cant stand that game, despite the cool graphics). In fact, there are parts in TF2, where you need to use the starting weapon... or you will be k!lled. As the starting weapon fires the fastest, out of all of the weapons. That said... the other weapons give you some unique abilities, that can make certain things in a level, a little or a LOT easier. TF2 is also great... in that when you crash your ship... the screen keeps scrolling, as it places a new ship down. There is no Checkpoint system, where it puts you back to a specific point in the level. You could probably crash your way through an entire level.. right up to the Boss... for example. But of course, if you ate up all of your lives to do that... it would make beating the rest of the game... much more challenging. I highly recommend playing the Genesis version. Its hands down, one of the best shooters ever created... IMO. Even with the slightly wonky, and very challenging... Top-View stages.
Cool. Its same as the other named game im did. Nice to see they did some balacing here dispite that. Cool. Turrrican was also not a issue when you die in that game. But some games does it too much in the later stages,
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Technosoft composers were FM synthesis geniuses.
most definitely.. the kings.. although my absolute favorite soundtrack of theirs is Hyper Duel on the saturn and i dont know if there is any FM synth in that.. but i know elemental master does and its peak, up their with thunder force 4
I love Thunder Force II for pushing the franchise and genre forward in the late '80s with look and sound
Yep, this was the game that started to shape the series.
For just a moment, the thought crossed my mind, "I miss the overhead stages."
Then I saw you playing through a couple, and I remembered. Having to duck in and out of visual range of the ground turrets, poking my way close enough and timing my shot rhythm to hit it with a bomb, making sure I'm still paying attention to those sky-level barriers, hoping against hope that I didn't fatfinger a diagonal while trying to get through a narrow passage...
No, actually, I really don't miss the overhead stages.
Yeah, they're quite the challenge. Way too much going on.
The speed of the oncoming walls was a very harsh lesson for my child self at the time. I definitely stepped away from this game with better reflexes than what I started with.
The overhead stages would've been at least tolerable had it just featured speed options, so you don't have to tap dance the directional buttons just to hit a base multiple times
@@solarflare9078 I actually enjoyed that part of it. Obviously it gave the overhead stages a very different feel to the on-rails side-scrolling. The need to whittle away at bases' defenses is actually a compelling gimmick in its own right. It was the main gameplay loop in some arcade games like _Gain Ground._
The extra layer of background on the Sharp 68000 really does look amazing.
Indeed. The Mega drive version looks quite barren without it.
Got this at launch
Mom came home from work with the system, then took me and my friend back to Toys R Us to pick a couple games
Grabbed this and Space Harrier 2
Miss those good ol days. Mom is a gem! When I picked TF2 , she said “I knew you’d want that one!”
That's a good mum. Mine picked up Revenge of Shinobi with my system but yo be fair, she asked the guy in the store. Thank god that guy knew his stuff 👍
I had my own job at the time.. So I bought the system, and all of my games. TF2 was the absolute BEST game out the 52 games Id end up owning. But Space Harrier 2... Wow, was that a horrible Let Down. I was never that much of a fan of the Original... but the Original was LEAGUES better than the Drivel that was SH2. Revenge of Shinobi, and Ghouls and Ghosts, were the next best / most played Carts.
Technocop was probably my biggest +$60 regret. I dont even know how that game got put on a store Shelf.. it was so bad. So bad I only played it a few times, before boxing it up forever.
The most memorable part of the X68K version, the guy cursing once your last life is lost. I find that X68K version a lot tougher than the MD version.
@@Bloodreign1 I couldn't believe it! Didn't think it was real! Lol
@@Bloodreign1 couldn't believe it!
Indeed, the X68000 version is much tougher
Oh, it's real alright 😅
Again a very good review. As for Herzog Zwei, this game pushed Tecnosoft and the Sega MD to another dimension.
The MD version loses one top-down and one horizontal stage, but does gain additional stage music the X68000 version doesn't have, such as the thumper that accompanies horizontal stage 4 (the level and BGM that would also feature in Thunder Force AC).
@@ealadubh4800 the name for that music track is called “Death’s Face” and it’s an awesome track and one of my favourites from the MD Thunder Force Ii soundtrack.
This was one of my favorite games when I grew up for the Megadrive and I love this Soundtrack.
Thanks bro 👍🏼
Glad you enjoy it!
Very impressive effort by the 16 Bit Sega console to be almost on par with the X68000, which was a home computer in the $1000+ range (back then), The Genesis/Mega Drive was around $200 USD at launch.
Thunder Force 2 and Herzog Zwei were my introduction to Tecno Soft. Quality games.
this was one of the first 16 bit games i ever played back at the u.s genesis launch and i was immediately hooked.. i played the sharp x68000 version years later thru emulation and thought it was more difficult in general but still great..
I would agree. The X68000 version is more difficult but if you want an easy version, the Saturn is the way yo go.
@@RetroCore no .. i mean i was fine with the genesis/ md version.. i was just saying what i immediately noticed.. great vids though mark!!
Love the Megadrive port. It was my first shump for the system. But man, difficult as hell!
I`m very glad to see battle of the port about thunder force 2 after thunder force 1 last week. Now I am playing thunder force 2 sharp x 68000 version (then the mega drive version is next) and I learned interesting details for myself about this games, thank`s very much for this videos!
Thanks for watching.
Love the TFII MD soundtrack. Nice choice.😎👍
Amazing BGM
TF2 started that trend for the series.
It sure did 👍
The first moment i was like Thunder Force II? Then i saw the cover of it on ur vid and i remembered 😂 BTW, the Pet Shop Boys Concert in Mannheim was great and Neil Tennent teared up a little that many people sung their songs with him almost all the time 😊
Wow, so lucky to attend the concert in Mannheim. I've got my fingers crossed they'll be heading over to Japan early next year or later this year.
Neil can get quite emotional at times. It must have meant a lot to him during the concert.
wish u lots of luck that PSB hopefully comes to Japan @@RetroCore
Love that this episode just ends with a long clip of hot jams. ❤😊
It's the version of Knights Of Legend (stage 1 overhead theme) that's part of the soundtrack to the MD version of Devil Crash.
It is indeed 👍. Well noted.
IMO, one of the best Shooters of All Time. Also, some of the best FM video game music, hands down. I think the top view sections were a hair too fast.. and since they were Open-Ended... really needed a Map. Had they made the top view sections more Linear... or included a map / positional locator.. it would have made the game Perfect.
The MD version is that version I played as a kid... and it took me like 1 year of On/Off playing, to beat it. I also had to start at the highest level (level 6?) to beat it. One day I vow to beat it from Stage 1.
One of the main differences between the Genesis version, and the X68000 version... is the massive boss in the Caves. The genesis versions boss, is like 50 times harder, to defeat... as they made it shoot far more projectiles and lasers. In fact, that boss was so challenging, that in order to beat it... I had to Cheat a little. I was rapidly hitting the Start button on the controller, to quickly Pause and Un-Pause the game... to create a Slow-Motion effect. This was still very challenging to pull off, as its not easy to toggle the start button like that... while also trying to dodge + shoot. It was that Boss, that actually prevented me from beating the game... FAR Sooner.
I later tried the x68000 version, briefly... (and I believe I was skipping levels)... and that same boss, was a total pushover, comparatively. The x68000 version also has a few more stages than the Genesis version. The added graphical details were nice... And the sampled voices were easier to understand.
I feel as if the difficulty of that Cave boss... Should have been somewhere between the Genesis and x68000 version. As the Genesis version was a hair too hard.. and the x68000 version was much too easy, IMO. Being that it was one of the last Bosses, before the Final stage... it should be a challenging boss. Just not quite as crazy as the Genesis version was. That said... I was much younger... and my gaming skills were likely not as good as my adult self.
TF2 is the game I Replayed most, on my Genesis. Even after I defeated it... I would still often fire up a game.. to replay it, because it was just so much fun.
I personally hated the sequels. TF3 had far inferior graphics.. and I also didnt like what they did to the powerups, either. The music and SFX, also sounded much more "Muddy" (low fidelity / compressed). I imagine that they reduced the music quality, to make more cartridge space for graphics. Also, Organics like trees, bushes..etc.. dont tend to look very good on the Genesis... due to its limited color palette. As such, they should have stuck with more Mechanical stages, rather than organic stages.
I think another thing that sort of k!lled the Top view stages... was the limited range of the B0mbs. For a while... I didnt even realize that the ship was dropping b0mbs... and I had to read the manual, before I realized it. I think it would have been far cooler... if they used a b0mb system that wasnt Automated. That you have to press a different b0mb button... and the b0mbs would travel a lot further.. and with better physics. Since dropping b0mbs would be a litter easier... Either make each target a little stronger... OR.. make the enemies that fly around... a bit more Aggressive. Do that, and add the map.. or make the stages more linear... and you would have an absolutely PERFECT shooter.
Watching this and shitting on the toilette after midinight with my wife and two kids screaming after a 8h drive on a foreign country. Fuck it, I am 45, Its just life and I am a retrogamer.
Oh man, I know that feeling oh so well. Been there. Now at 48 I'm just past all that with more free time, well at least from taking the family places.
Definitely have fond memories of this one in my emulation crazy days. Definitely some of my favorite music on the mega drive
I played Thunder Force 2 on my switch and it’s quite a brutal game specially those overhead sections I dig the music in the mega drive port which was clearly cut back. Thanks to it. Been only on a 4 Megsbiit cartridge and one thing about the voices in the MD port is that they were Actually the clearest of all the MD Thunder Force games overall the quality of TechnoSoft’s music on the MD is legendary. In fact I would say every single game they did had a legendary soundtrack anyway great Battle of the ports and a nice and unexpected surprise.
Technosoft we're masters of FM audio. They really knew how to make FM sing.
@@RetroCore they sure did and their compositions were also memorable.
That multi-directional scrolling....hurts, it just hurts! Haha
Haha, the over head sections? Yep, it can be quite nerve wrecking.
So the oldest version is the best version. Loved this game, bought it with my Genesis and played it way more than Altered Beast at the time. Great comparison. Thanks!
Yeah, it's too bad that the Saturn version couldn't be definitive; blending the visuals of the Sharp version with a nice arrange soundtrack option would have been great; the Saturn version being a little more forgiving is a plus in my book.
The music and sound effects are really amazing Mark. I think the best I heard from a classic game in a while bro. 8^)
Anthony..
For a launch year Genesis game (or second year Mega Drive game), the MD port looks amazing. Shame about the Saturn port’s audio though, especially since it was capable of looping audio. Mega Man X4 on the Saturn loops music properly unlike the PS1 and PC versions, for instance.
Great review, as always.
I appreciate that
If there's anything that impressed me about the games in this video, it's the fact that the Sharp version used one of its voice samples JUST to announce the copyright and publishing information. I don't think I've ever seen or heard of that in a video game, not even one that's a stylistic parody.
@mightyfilm If i remember correctly it did it again at the end of the game too.
However on the Mega Drive, Mega Turrican also has a spoken presentation credit as well, and it is extremely clear for a MD voice sample.
It's been done in a few Japanese games but it certainly isn't common.
The Sega 16-bit version of this game is the one that most people played...
Yep, I would say so.
Ah, Thunder Force 2, also known as "the second of the first two games that people have kind of just forgotten existed apparantly"
If you're an American gamer of a certain vintage it was kind of a big deal because it was one of the early Sega Genesis games and it got a lot of coverage in the magazines
I think II was really good I just couldn’t stand the overhead stages
I forget how many games I played on the MD that were ports from home computers- so many cool titles from Psygnosis and this one... looking at the MD games running, I feel like you can see subtle details that are different from games developed directly to the platform. Or maybe that's just me.
That's what was so interesting back then. Each system had its own unique look and sound unlike modern systems.
I quite liked this but my thought was that I would have preferred all horizontal stages. Luckily I had to wait only a year or so to get that. :-)
I’ve always enjoyed this game not quite as much as the later entries I could just never stand the overhead levels I found them very tricky to navigate.
Fair enough! They can be quite tricky.
A great battle thanks Mark, I love this game in its Megadrive version, I've played the x68000 game via emulation and it's extras are awesome, like you say though it's much harder and I prefer the easier difficulty of the megadrive, why Sega don't release the Thunderforce games separately or part of a compilation is something I will never understand, I'd buy straight away.
I hear you on the compilation. I have a feeling it's the PS2 TF6 that's stopping them. Emulation for PS2 isn't perfect and I doubt they'd try to report it. Such a shame.
for some reason i never got in to this series when I had a genesis .........i missed out it seems ..
It was a great series. Still worth checking out even now.
Epic man😎👍💥
How weird Thunder Force II never received a Sega Ages release on Nintendo Switch but oh well. I know TF II is not looked upon very fondy these days but it's the game that introduced me to the Thunder Force series as my dad got it with the Sega Genesis back when we started collecting video games. It also introduced the horizontal-scrolling stages that later became the series' staple. I'm looking foward for Thunder Force III being featured on the channel :D
Thunder Force III was already covered by AC's video, but there's still IV and V! :) Not that there's too many versions to compare for V, but IV at least has the Saturn and Switch versions with their added content even if the latter's using emulation. Up to him for when/if he decides to cover those though.
The switch version is just emulation on either the PlayStation or Saturn original. I can't remember which.
Surprisingly thunder Force V on the Saturn has far batter transparent effects and stable 3D while the PlayStation features higher resolution textures.
@@RetroCore The Switch version of Thunder Force IV afaik emulates the Mega Drive and Genesis ROMs, but hacks in the bonus features from the Saturn version like Styx and Kids Mode at what I'm pretty sure is the emulator level, so you get all of the bonus features and voice samples not interrupting gameplay on top of the original difficulty level with slowdown optionally intact. Even with the reduced slowdown option, though, I do think the Saturn port has it beat out in terms of pure performance. Thunder Force AC got the same treatment too,.
tl;dr M2 are wizards and the Switch port is still worth including imo
EDIT: And you don't need to 1cc the game to unlock the Styx either.
Sadly I can't afford to buy a switch game just for 1 video. I'd never play it again after the video was made.
@@RetroCore Ah, makes sense.
4:18 I never understood that thing next to the Luck. People says that it's a thumbs up, but for me, it always look one *spring with a shark head.*
For the longest time I thought it was a strange joystick but yeah, it is a thumbs up.
I've never seen the X68000 version before, if they'd pulled that water effect off on the Mega Drive it would have blown minds.
It is technically possible to do but maybe back then the knowledge wasn't available.
@@RetroCore Nah. Game developers have been using Transparent / Translucent effects in games, for a very very long time. You can see some of these effects in Sonic, with waterfalls, and the shield sphere. Many games used checkered patterns to make translucent menu bars, and translucent shadows, too. These effects are very easily done... when displaying them on a standard definition CRT TV.
You cant see these effects on modern LCDs... or PC monitors... because the Dot pitch of the Shadowmask, is too small. The exception, is if you use some of the better CRT Filter effects... that simulate how a CRT TV works. But even then, its often never as good as a real CRT TV.
The main issue would likely have been System Ram. The system can only hold so many things in its memory at the same exact time. The game logic needs to be in ram... as do all of the objects, projectiles, and background tiles... and the music and sound effects are also running in ram too.
The only other potential limitation, is the Cartridge (Roms) size itself. Companies would always want to maximize their profits... especially if they didnt know how well a game was going to sell. As such, it would have been very rare for any company to use larger sized (non-standard) Cartridges. Larger carts likely were only ever used in games where it was otherwise impossible to make so many "Cuts" to a game. Maybe one of the Fighting games, for example.
@@johndough8115This being an early release definitely is the culprit here, the developers were not familiar enough with the hardware to program it with transparencies in the background.
@@matthewnikitas8905 Nope. Transparency is not generally created by Programming. Its created using CRT effects... by drawing a checker-board pattern.
You see... CRT TVs have very large phosphor pads... and light tends to leak over the "Mask" (Individual Dividers). This causes two pixels that are right next to each other, to "Mix".
To make a translucent shadow effect... you simply use the color Black, to make a checkered pattern... and when its displayed on a CRT TV... all of the spaces between the black dots... allows the Background to show through... AND... all of the Black dots... end up mixing / bleeding with the background... to the point where you no longer see any "Dots". The final result... is a Semi-Translucent shadow effect.
This isnt just done with black either. You will see a lot of checkered patterns in different colors... to create different color shades (more than the Genesis actually supports), and to create different Texture effects.. As well as to make things more Rounded (intentionally reducing jagged edges), and or more Shaded.
I have a request for a future video:
Chip's Challenge
I'd like to see how the computer versions hold up to the original Atari Lynx version, and hear what you have to say about the homebrew versions.
Ah, that's a game I just know I won't be able to get in to. I'll add it to the to do list.
Classic
At least the synthesized voice is better than the original game.
i played this one on my x68k z...quite an hard game
It sure is. It seems the versions got easier the newer they became.
The true start of the IP.
I'll give this one to the Sharp X68000 version. Though Genesis still has the best music rendition.
Was the PSG always that loud in the Mega Drive version? I don't remember that being the case, but maybe that's because you played it right after the X68k original, which doesn't have any PSG at all. It's unfortunate that Technosoft's sound driver on the MD can't play music and samples at the same time, and honestly makes me wish there weren't any samples at all, because interrupting such amazing music is criminal! I also think the lower quality sound effects actually works in the Saturn's favor, as they're much less obnoxious as a result. Just a shame the CD music doesn't loop properly.
I think their sound drivers couldn't play samples and FM because on the MD or you play with the 6th channel on PCM mode or on FM. That's why it interrups the music, it enters in PCM mode every time a sample plays. Their music it's only FM and PSG, if they decided to use samples for percussions using the PCM mode then the FM part would never mute, only the drums while it plays the voices. That's why.
I guess it depends upon the revision of the hardwrae. Different revisions did have slightly different sound. I'm using an early Japanese model 1 console.
@@zanegandini5350 I think it’s probably to do with the way that TechnoSoft programmed their sound driver for the MD and also a few Sega games had that issue with not being able to play music and voice samples at the same time such as space Harrier II, golden axe and even altered beast had this issue too with the voice samples interrupting the music but one thing about the thunder Force games The Voice samples got progressively worse with each sequel with thunder Force II ironically being the clearest probably due to the fact that they were listed directly from the Sharp X68000 original.
I think this was the second game I owned on the Genesis right after Altered Beast. And as is often the case, the game has never left me since. I think about its music often, and its weird announcements when getting powerups. Learned just a few years ago that it started life as an X68000 game with more robust music (even if I prefer the Genesis version of the drums). Pity about the Saturn port repeating music. There are only 4 levels that technically play forever-surely they could have devoted the lion's share of those 80 minutes of CD audio to those four levels? Seems kind of lazy and shortsighted.
The X68000 original version has interesting graphics features and an intro, thanks for showing that! Will you carry on with episodes 3 - 4 - 5?
3 I did as part of the Thunder Force AC video. Thunder Force was a Mega Dreamcast ve only game. The emulated ports on switch don't count. So I'll be doing 5 this week 👍
When can we expect a port of the md version with the missing stages of the x68k version ?
Probably never 😭😢
Funny in hindsight the lack of transparency effects on the GEN/MD platform overall since the platform has examples of that very effect. I guess it could be lost for cart space limits if the whole stage was cut but as far an effect it usually comes down to hardware layer limits where the Sharp and SS are much stronger.
It was better off with just side scrolling in hindsight, much like Contra it didn't seem like many people ever appreciated differing perspectives so they were doing extra design work for no reason. The majority just want to scroll in one direction and shoot lol.
I'm definitely leaning toward II MD for my favorite version here. Even though the X68000 version is prettier imo, it feels a lot more fair. Then again, i'm not very skilled at shmups 😅
Just one other thing that was missed here: overhead stages have ingame maps on the X68000 version that also tell you where the targets are, which at least make them much easier to navigate. I don't feel that it offsets the difficulty too much though; MD is still more fair imo.
Ah, well spotted with the overhead maps. I never used them as I was accustomed to the layout but yeah, that is a nice touch.
I cackled when you said "backshot." I'll go stand in the corner and think about what I've done.
Lol, no need to apologise. My mind is always in the gutter 😅
@@RetroCore Besides there are plenty of games for those old Japanese computers that have THAT kind of content in them. X3
🎮🎮🎮👍❤
Thunderforce 3 and 4 are better but i love thunderforce 2.
For me its in the top ten mega drive shmups
I'd agree there and four are better games but still, two is a classic.
Wondering if you are planning on a remaster for Thunder Force III that could include the switch version of Thunder Force AC that’s worth mentioning and I guess same for the 4th game despite the Sega Ages are emulation but it is do worth talking about.
Btw small thing about the 2nd game’s Claw Speed Up power up while it does appear only in this game but the feature did find its way into STYX’s Mass Production Model in IV (Saturn/Switch) and AC (Switch) with a press of the button
Sadly I'm not covering the switch version as it's basically Mega Drive emulation with a few extras added.
There was going to be a pc engine version but it got cancelled.
Shame but at least there were similar games on that platform.
There was? First I've ever heard about that. Who was going to develop it?
Again, where does that information comes from?
Like with the Thunder Force I video, you need to have a reliable source for this. And fan wikis aren't a reliable source.
There is however Thunder Force 3 on the nintendo 3DS on TH-cam. Check it out.
Next Battle of the Ports Thunder Force III Please
Did that as part of the Thunder Force AC video 👍
There’s a Saturn version no way
Yep 👍
If it actually said "SHIT!" when you died in the game! 😂
It does actually say shit 😁. Swearing in Japanese was quite the thing back then.
Request:battle of the ports puzznic
What is the best emulator for the Sharp X68000 on pc?
Probably Win68K but I often had issues with that seeing diagonal inputs on some controllers.
For this video I was using the X68000 Z mini hardware.
@@RetroCore Ok, thanks for the reply. I forgot you had that mini. Nice one.
I am gonna beat all the Gradius games and the Thunder Force series is the next one that I am going to do. LOL@Saturn being the worst one tho. They were too lazy to have an arranged soundtrack & new voice samples for that version. Sega buying Technosoft was one of the few smart things that company did.
Good luck with the challenge 👍
I hope next week's Battle of the Ports is not Thunder Force III since you've covered that game in 2017 as Show #163.
I did that a long time ago under the Arcade title of a Thunder Force AC
Thunder Force 3 was done a long time ago, and had 60fps and captions, so it doesn’t even need a remaster either
Thunder Force 4 had no ports, meanwhile, while Thunder Force 5 only had a Saturn and PS1 version
@@RetroCore You could always redo that one as a remastered version by placing Mega Drive Thunder Force III as the original instead of Arcade Thunder Force AC, since it seems you had to do that back then as it was done when you were only doing original arcade games converted to home systems (but technically this was not), also adding the Sega Saturn version of Thunder Force III since what was included back then was just the Sega Saturn version of Thunder Force AC, and then, maybe including the 3DS version of Thunder Force III and Switch version of Thunder Force AC as well? As those have several differences compared to the originals.
First!
Make One for Chack'n Pop, now!!!
Some day it will be done.
im wonder lost weapons caused the whole game too been absurd hard in the later stages? So if you die, and the sametime the stages was designed with fully powerups in mind and impossible to regain them again? That cause it often impossible to complete. Im hate that kind of gameplay design today. One of the worst im have seen was Altered Beast. lol. absolute a joke of a game if you die on the later levels. etc im newer played any games from this series throught.
Nope. You can easily defeat ANY stage in the game... with the Starting Weapon. TF2 is not like R-Type. In R-Type, when you lose your powerups... its best just to reset the game, and start from scratch (which is why I cant stand that game, despite the cool graphics).
In fact, there are parts in TF2, where you need to use the starting weapon... or you will be k!lled. As the starting weapon fires the fastest, out of all of the weapons.
That said... the other weapons give you some unique abilities, that can make certain things in a level, a little or a LOT easier.
TF2 is also great... in that when you crash your ship... the screen keeps scrolling, as it places a new ship down. There is no Checkpoint system, where it puts you back to a specific point in the level. You could probably crash your way through an entire level.. right up to the Boss... for example. But of course, if you ate up all of your lives to do that... it would make beating the rest of the game... much more challenging.
I highly recommend playing the Genesis version. Its hands down, one of the best shooters ever created... IMO. Even with the slightly wonky, and very challenging... Top-View stages.
Cool. Its same as the other named game im did. Nice to see they did some balacing here dispite that. Cool. Turrrican was also not a issue when you die in that game. But some games does it too much in the later stages,
It's relatively easy to gain back weapons in this game. I think loosing them while a factor in the game being tough, isn't the sole reason.