When dealing with a split phase system, always keep your cables at the same length. If both your ground and power cable on one inverter is six foot, then on the other inverter do the same. This keeps both inverters in sink better. If not one inverter will run with less voltage, watts, and ohms while the other inverter is pushing more. In a solar system everything has to be equal. Your running on batteries and panels. Totally different from a grid type system. Just a little fault means the difference of having to replace something. When working with electrical always remember the water hose example. The longer the hose the less pressure of water coming from the hose, the shorter the hose the more pressure coming from the hose. I had to learn the hard way and now I have a system that runs pretty good. Note: also you want to keep all your cables on your batteries the same link as well.
I noticed his very same design flaw, not only lithiums system but one that Will Prowse put together, Luckily I caught this before I put my split face together, and I agree, I ran my battery cables the same length as well.
Would love to know how you "learned this the hard way." All U.S. homes are split phase and the wiring and loads are never identical and 50/50. By your logic transformers should be failing on service poles at alarming rates.
@@cyumadbrosummit3534 First off your funny with you sarcastic response. Yes nothing is ever identical but in electric you want to keep them as identical as you can. 4 Foot wire for power use a 4 foot wire for ground. If you are using 2 inverters to get your 220/240 ac, use all the same size wires. What I meant about learning it the hard ways was that when you have 2 systems running 220/240 ac and one of your inverters has longer wires then the other you will notice higher amps running to one and lower amps running to the others, so far so that in some cases you will start to burn out terminals and other connecting areas for wires. I lost a whole inverter because of higher amps burning out the terminals. So now everything is the same all is pre cut and clamp. Electrical can be unpredictable and items burn out. Had to redo my whole entire system. Of course this was back when solar was first being used. I have learned a lot in the many years I have work with solar and grid systems.
@@cyumadbrosummit3534 - I'm no electrician, but I think a fair analysis is that on a Utility Line split phase, both the continuous amount of source voltage/ current, and the size of Step Down transformers utilized en-route to your house are capable of minimizing resistance loss to near zero. And I also believe that on an inverter system, small differences in wire length have a near zero impact on power transmission loss due to resistance (or inverter performance). But it's clear that such a system is far less capable of compensating for any loss than the Grid, so it's probably best to get the wires as close as possible to the same length (if at all possible). On my setup I'm going to try to do exactly that. They won't be exactly the same length, but they will be less than 2 feet in difference (with 4/0 copper battery wire and 4AWG to the panel). And you can have greater differences in wire length (and less voltage drop) when you utilize larger gauge wire (obviously).
@@jamesrcoleii4577 I can't speak for the system you may have had years ago, but the system shown in the video has the two inverters operating independently and as such there is no need for the cable lengths going from the bus bars to the inverters to be similar. They don't have any load sharing going on so there is no way for one to be favored due to cable length. The only place you should ensure cables are of similar length here is for multiple paralleled batteries going to those DC bus bars. This is mostly covered in the video by pulling the negative and positive from opposite corners of the battery packs. That is an industry standard way of connecting four batteries together for moderately good load sharing, though not quite as good as having each battery have an equal length cable to the DC bus bar.
Seriously best video I’ve seen so far regarding setting up an off grid system. I’ve watched 100s of videos and not one goes into detail or provides the step by step setup that you describe in your video. You legit gave me the confidence and peace of mind to be able to try this type of setup. Thank you so much. Please keep posting in the same manner with the same level of detail! I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say something thank you for the clarity and ease of understanding.
I give a warning on those class T fuse connectors. I used this style for hooking up my bare wires, The wires had slipped and melted and almost caused a fire. Since then I only use wires with copper lugs attached to them. No problem since. 🖖
For your question about swiches/breakers at 4:50 I used MCCB molded case 2P beakers from TAIXI for about $100- these are available in 200/300/400 A DC-rated configuration. I also (like you) installed the T-Class fuses, since the breaker is mostly used as a convenient disconnect while the T-Class is for safety. Great Vid, keep em coming.
Nice job changing the main bonding jumper to a #6! I also like how you finished the run to the source of the inverters in #6. I believe the EMT should have a bonding bushing with the main bonding jumper attached since you are extending the run from the inverters to the electrical box. Otherwise, it looks really good.
I suspect the difference in amps on the inverter is because the dryer motor is probably 120 volts? So it would be plausible that one inverter might bear a little larger load because of that.
Yes, the drum motor is 120V. Plus all the other electronics is 120V as well, or at least pulls from 1 leg and then regulated from there. So yeah, I agree with this assessment
very nice video, learned a lot. a small trick i learned is to mark all connections you did check the torque on is to mark them with a permanent marker. so you can easily keep track of what is tightened correctly
Your video is excellent. Short to the point and shows what is needed to do. Thumb up for you and I will subscribe. For years I have used the 3kw (still do) for the whole house with NO 220V using recycle battery pack built in 100P 18650 cells. They are quite a pain and time consuming to build and rebuild every few years due to the recycle nature to start with. Now with the price drop of LFP battery it is time to buy them new and new inverter that can do 220V and online monitoring capability. 3000W is plenty enough to run the whole house on 110V that is as i had been using that way for 4 years. 220V for the whole house 10k to 12kw inverter will do for most people. Battery cost is the factor for a lot of people. That is NO longer true as they are quite affordable now. I build the whole thing up just like what you are doing. It is a fantastic hobby as there is NOT a day any of us not using power in this case we harness the photons from the sun into electrons which is truly a clean sustainable energy. Not many people realize or know that these batteries will last longer than a decade so it will pay off for the investment in a short time and never have to worry about electrical outage when mother of nature strikes. I live in Fl and mother of nature is NOT very friendly for us here!!!!!!! I will never do grid tie never was and never will. Too many people do not know going off grid does not cost that much more and never have to muck around with the utility company for that stinky net metering credit they pay. What a joke of that net metering and the cost of installing one. NO wonder people are not doing more of solar even just nearly everyone wants to. Honestly who would NOT like NOT to ever have an electric bill monthly again until death?????!!!!! The more of us doing this the better and i find your videos to be excellent!!!!!!
Excellent video and instruction. My only caveat, OCD Electrical Engineer warning, is in the dryer test section before final thoughts. You multiplied the current by 48V for power. One should measure the actual voltage for accuracy in calculations. It is more than 48V. Each 1V adds 118W to the total. A typical 48V system is actually 52V or more on average. That would be almost 480W more than the figure you calculated. At 48V, the battery system is close to empty. Thanks again for such a detailed video. These methods/ principles apply to almost any system.
Your electric dryer is so green! You will single handedly save the planet (saving it from irresponsible idiots like me that have a propane dryer in my off grid solar house).
What exactly are you going on about? I never said anything in this video about being "green", saving the planet, or against propane dryers. There's nothing wrong with propane dryers.
@@LithiumSolar Sorry. Most solar off grid people are so anal about avoiding co2 generation (you know, they are single handedly saving the planet) and use electric everything. I built my system before global warming and propane seemed a logical way to avoid high drain electrical loads.
Fantastic video that’s a lot for the help Really a big help Very nice and neat setup I wish I stayed with MPP instead of going with signature solar for my 6000ex I never had any issues with my LV2424 and if I did I had a answer within 24 hours Great costumer service
You mentioned not using a ferrule for the multi strand cable / lug connection. Another option is to use a piece of copper sheet (shim) wrapped around the conductor bundle. I've made Cam-Lok cables in the past and you get a copper shim with each connector fir this purpose.
I really like your videos. And, I have a suggestion for a video. To my knowledge, there is no comprehensive video out there showing how to properly wire a Motorhome lithium battery system using Victron (or other) components. To include a DC to DC charger for protection of the alternator. What to do about the existing cross-connect switch for the house/starter batteries. Wiring the Inverter and Controller. And, properly replacing the motorhome's existing Charger/Converter. Also discussing potential problems (if any) when hooked to shore power while the solar charging system is still active. If you made such a video I think it would be very popular. Thanks.
Very good quality install, that system would be great for small cabin, fine job fine job. Can only dream about having that system. I have 400w panels, 400ah agm batteries and 1000w inverter. Keep putting out the great info.
Thanks, Is there a type of backer board you would recommend? I'm just going to head to the improvement story now. I think cement board would be hard to drill into.
HardieBacker cement backerboard is the stuff you want. Do not get the "USG Durock Board" stuff. It's impossible to cut without specialized tools and that epoxy smell never goes away. The HardieBacker can be screwed with regular screws that have a point on the end. It's fibrous, not a solid piece of rock like the name "cement board" suggests.
I was trained early in highschool wiring homes, next wiring military aircraft, last wiring helicopters for geophysics surveying. Always, every wire in braided wires, is neatly cut, before bonding to a clamp. For example, if you have a 12 wire strand, you can loose only 2 strands. In gauges 0 to 10, it’s not discussed by in data wiring it’s crucial. In a Tesla car, with very high currents, wiring curves dramatically affect power transmission. New DC charging systems, for Cybertruck and Semi truck are 1 giga watt at 1,000 volts, and you can imagine the field flux of these wires. For those serious, about charging Tesla vehicles at fast rates should understand neatness of wiring.
You've done such a great job building your channel since you started that you should be proud and pleased with your accomplishments. I knew that your channel would take off the first time I watched it several years ago and spread your name to some of the groups I belong to. Keep up with the good work and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Great setup! I'm planning on doing a backup power storage for my NAS and video surveillance system. Luckily I won't be needing any inverter or such complications, just a good LiFePo 24v battery and a beefy 12v buck converter to meet the current demands. Wish me luck 😂👌🏼
i notice that you didn't install a shunt. is that because you don't expect to ever need to measure the current easily? or just want to use a clamp meter and cut expenses? i bought a smart shunt so i could use my cellphone to check on batteries/power without going to the system.
Nice clean setup. You do a great job of explaining the whole installation. First I would say the unit can take 4 awg. It’s a royal pain to get in there. I covered it in a video I made after I installed my 2 lv6548’s. The reason they recommend the gauge is mostly due to the surge in my opinion. But it’s worth the effort I would say. Even more so for the input. Although I realize you won’t be using that aspect of it. Also I would caution against having your main fuse box in that location. The units do vent out of the bottom. But a lot of the heat also vents from those side vents towards the bottom also. Once you have a large load or are charging you can check and see. They really need the full clearance from top to bottom with no obstructions. And Watts247 carries really great dc fuse/circuit breakers. I still plan on getting a couple 200 amp ones from Ian. He also has 150 amp. They are extremely heavy duty.
@@LithiumSolar lol. Im running my entire home, shop, barn off my system. The only thing i dont have on it is my hot water heater. And I'm trying to figure out a boiler system for it. My hot water heater uses 49% of my total energy consumption.
Very nice! These will be powering mine here soon. I'll be rebuilding my power shed here in the spring, just didn't have time last fall. Have you considered a hybrid heat-pump water heater? I installed one a couple of years ago and significantly reduced my water heating costs vs the old electric style.
@@LithiumSolar i have, just didn't know anyone using one to compare. You are running yours off your inverters? I have 4 teenagers plus me and ma'ma my hot water heater is a killer.. Lol
Nice video. I appreciated the info re the inverter airflow as I thought mine had the fans in reverse. I don't know why they did them that way. I think the difference in loads on the inverters are due to the different cable lengths to the bus bars.
This inverters are produced by the Chinese manufacturer called „Voltronic“. The EG4 inverters are also the same but only a different branding. In spain you can by this engines from „MasterPower“ and and and … 😅 Thanks for this very good Video. Best regards from Germany.
As always very detailed and accurate. Would be nice to see a unbalance load with the 120 on one inverter high then the large 240 load put on similar to a real life situation.
Since they each handle one phase that would be a fairly boring test. Dual phase inverters like the mpp6048 would be a different story I guess. They can only handle so much of a lopsided load before a warning code occurs. That really wouldn’t happen with these. So far I haven’t had an issue with mine. Running well and water heater as well as smaller loads.
Why did you use one live wire for one inverter to be black and another live wire for another inverter to be red? And since you connected neutral wires and ground wires from both inverter touch one another, can I also let two live wires from two inverters touch one another? Thanks.
As soon as there is a screw involved in a terminal you should use a ferule on fine stranded wires, otherwise the screw can damage the wires an it can become loose
@@LithiumSolar At time stamp 9:44 you talked about having flattening the wire. We use them a lot where I work at for better gripping on those type of connectors. Just a thought
@@danielturek7334 This is THHN wire. I've never heard of putting a ferrule on THHN wire. What type of wire are you using where you're using them? They're typically only used with finer strands.
Ok,so you mentioned the 4/0 from the battery to the bus bars not needing to be the same length. Can explain that ? Thanks and great video. Just preparing to wire up 4 of the sok’s myself
Because he inverted the order for negative versus positive, he's already "evened" out the difference between batteries which is the only difference that matters. His negative cable could be a hundred feet long for all that it matters and although it would add a bunch of resistance that isn't good, it would add it EQUALLY to each battery, thus them all being in balance. IE it's not that negative and positive to each battery has to be balanced, it's that the total length (resistance) of each battery has to be balanced. Hope that helps!
The length (from rack to busbar) doesn't matter because it's one circuit. The current only has one path to flow. The place where it matters is when you have multiple runs coming together. For example, if I had two racks of SOK batteries, I would want the cables from each rack going to the common point (busbar) to be the same length. In the case of 2 racks, if the cables to each were not the same length, the battery with the shorter cables would be doing more "work" because of less resistance in the cabling. I hope that makes sense, I'm not the best at explaining in words.
Hey! Great video! Its great to see fully detailed installation videos like these! I also went with that same amazon t class fuse, but I also added one of those bluesea red battery switches to make disconnecting easier. The connections are on the back so I dont love it. Ive been eyeing the "Suntree" DC breakers sold on the Renogy amazon stores but theyre expensive at around $100. Havent seen anyone used those yet!
Nice job mounting your equipment. You should not block the venting for the inverters like you did with your electrical box. When they run under high load quite some heat will blow out of these venting holes. Since you blocked half on each inverter the internal overheating protection will shut them off.
You are exactly right on the Blue Sea 48V breakers. I commend their service and sales folks for being forthright about the limits of their products, to ensure the safety of their customers. 60V DC 200amp breakers rated to not arc while shut off under load can be expensive, but worth it if something goes hot.
@@LithiumSolar hmmm. Saw stranded wire that you referred to, but relistening, you called “‘round” wire. U meant solid, I think, I saw and thought stranded.
@@johnnydfred It's THHN wire and contains 19 strands for #6. When you strip the insulation off, yes, it's round. I unwrapped the strands a bit so it was no longer round and better matched the square profile of the terminal. It's not solid wire.
Great video! Please help: I don't speak much English but I want to ask you why in split-phase and not in parallel? I live in Europe and I need 220V for utilities, I have the same two inverters and I want to create a system that allows me to manage batteries and home consumption. If I wanted to put them in parallel, do I have to connect them both to phase and neutral or just one of the two? Can you make a video about it? Thank you
I prefer battery breakers instead of fuses, in particular Nader 200A 60V breakers available from Signature Solar. They can run at high currents (130Amps) without getting hot. Also 4/0 cables are best for ALL battery cables into the LV6548 otherwise the excessive wire resistance at high currents will cause wrong battery voltages to be measured inside the LV6548 units which will lead to bad decision making (in float and bulk) as the units charge the batteries, or use measured battery voltages to decide to switch to grid power (SBU mode). Even with 4/0 cables the voltages could be off by almost a volt at 100 Amp currents from the batteries to each LV6548. The LV6548 units do NOT have separate, low current battery voltage sense wires which you could tie to the battery terminals directly.
Yes, the battery cables are a bit undersized here in this DEMO setup. It is not a permanent installation nor is it intended to be something people should copy exactly as-is.
You ran wire through the knockout of the inverter without using a bushing. Also, you hooked a 50amp cord to a 30a breaker for your dryer test. Stay safe! I thought the inverters idle power consumption was excessive, but I don't own big units like that, so maybe it's normal.
You must have missed the comments made where this was a test setup. Also, that's a 30A cord, it's 10awg. Even if it were rated for 50A, it doesn't matter as it's on a 30A breaker anyway.
I had an electrician install an interlock kit and a 30 amp inlet so I can plug in my gas generator. Can I plug this system into that 3 amp inlet, just like my generator. If so what do I need to add or take away to make this system apply to my situation Thanks for your help in advance!
I'm not familiar with Phocos inverters. In fact, I've never even heard of that brand name before. I did a quick Google search though and see the 6500 model is a hybrid. It looks very similar to the LV6548 - unsure.
@@LithiumSolar Thanks for the response. It appears to be nearly the same, but with more compliant connections. And has code entry to enable feed back to the grid. But I've just not seen much information about them out there yet.
I have the same LV6548 setup with SOK batteries except not the server rack type. What I can’t figure out is why the battery voltage on one inverter is different than the other? It’s always .3 to .4 off. For example one inverter is at 54 volts and the other one at 54.4. When I measure the voltage with my meter on each inverter, they both match to what inverter 2 says. Inverter 1 shows a lower voltage. I also have to mention that inverter 1 was bought several months before inverter 2.
I know you've uploaded video for solar panel Array but it would be nice to upload again for this split phase , like big array and you test loads same time
It's not a grid-tie inverter. I assume by "grid feed" you mean connecting the AC input and using the built-in transfer switch on a subpanel. Yes, I could do that. I just don't want to use it that way.
@@LithiumSolar Yes I know it’s an off grid inverter, however it can still be feed by the grid. A google search says that TUV certification is excepted in North America.
I am using the sungold power version of these exact same machines. They look identical except for color. Programs also work the same way How do you get the inverters to communicate with the batteries? My batteries are at a very low state of charge but are not completely drained. Because the voltage has not changed much, the inverter register them as being nearly 100% and will not charge with utility power . I have also tried hooking these up to four 460 W solar panels. The panels are bringing in the correct voltage but are bringing in no watts or amp and I cannot figure out why.
@@LithiumSolar it is going to be completely off grid however can’t I just use the ac input from the grid and draw no power wouldn’t it be grounded then
Are you talking about Grid tied or grid connected ? People are doing these setups to get AWAY from Utility company/ net metering ! Utility companies are becoming increasingly more unfriendly to grid tied systems and they are already implementing base charges if your electric bill is less than their set minimum. Florida just dodged a bullet as they passed a bill in the senate pushed by FPL to strip net metering but Gov Desantis vetoed the bill ( yeah that guy that every blue state transplant hates) This is your writing on the wall if you think they will stop at this
Thanks for all your videos, I am building a very similar system. I have question and cannot find any video about it. I am guessing that you need to even your arrays between both mpp, like array 1 on each mpp. How about between array 1 and 2 on the same mpp, does it make a difference if you close to max out one array and the second have not even half the rating?
@@robertgiresi9515 its called a "load center" not a sub panel. "Panels" have bolt on circuit breakers and "load centers" have stab on circuit breakers.
@@uhjyuff2095 I'm not an electrician, so to my untrained eye it looked like a subpanel. It is marketed as a load center and that's certainly the way he's using it. My home load center connected to the grid has a main breaker which this model doesn't and my home subpanel doesn't have a main breaker much like this, so to me, it looked like a subpanel being used as a load center.
Nice video but I would like to see information about running and standby/idle mode energy use. That information would be extremely useful for those of those that have minimal solar energy available.
Replying to my own question I know it was stated that approximately 120 watts was being used with no power throughput. Is there another mode other than just off?
This is a temporary set up for demonstration purposes. You should follow your local codes as it pertains to grounding (or any wiring for that matter). If you're not sure, hire an electrician.
@@adassociates8235 I know, but I'm not an electrician either and cannot directly offer you electrical advise. There is no ground post on this setup because it is a test/demo setup.
You need to provide an earth ground someplace in your system. Bonding is okay but will not prevent current flow to one of the metal boxes in case of a short. To earth bond will protect by tripping a breaker or the T fuse on one side or the other. This is very important. Using only the auto-transformer neutral does nothing to protect your safety in such an event. This is similar to generators with no earth anchor where you have a floating neutral and also the possibility of turning the entire frame of the generator into a conductor for current. One touch in such a situation and you are electrocuted. It's not all that common an occurence so most 'take a chance' and avoid use of the earth ground, however to be safe you should go back and edit this video so no one follows your lead and loses their life or health. It is true you are earth grounded once you connect to your dryer, however with some other type connections, you are not. For instance if you install a receptacle box with duplex receptacle there is no ground to earth available which means your neutral and ground connection on the receptacle are connected. And if your hot leg is shorted to the box it's possible to get zapped because your set up will not take the hot short to earth ground and trip a breaker. Using the common ground in you AC box is good and bonding is okay but only if the ground is actually "grounded".
When dealing with a split phase system, always keep your cables at the same length. If both your ground and power cable on one inverter is six foot, then on the other inverter do the same. This keeps both inverters in sink better. If not one inverter will run with less voltage, watts, and ohms while the other inverter is pushing more. In a solar system everything has to be equal. Your running on batteries and panels. Totally different from a grid type system. Just a little fault means the difference of having to replace something. When working with electrical always remember the water hose example. The longer the hose the less pressure of water coming from the hose, the shorter the hose the more pressure coming from the hose. I had to learn the hard way and now I have a system that runs pretty good. Note: also you want to keep all your cables on your batteries the same link as well.
I noticed his very same design flaw, not only lithiums system but one that Will Prowse put together,
Luckily I caught this before I put my split face together, and I agree, I ran my battery cables the same length as well.
Would love to know how you "learned this the hard way." All U.S. homes are split phase and the wiring and loads are never identical and 50/50. By your logic transformers should be failing on service poles at alarming rates.
@@cyumadbrosummit3534 First off your funny with you sarcastic response. Yes nothing is ever identical but in electric you want to keep them as identical as you can. 4 Foot wire for power use a 4 foot wire for ground. If you are using 2 inverters to get your 220/240 ac, use all the same size wires. What I meant about learning it the hard ways was that when you have 2 systems running 220/240 ac and one of your inverters has longer wires then the other you will notice higher amps running to one and lower amps running to the others, so far so that in some cases you will start to burn out terminals and other connecting areas for wires. I lost a whole inverter because of higher amps burning out the terminals. So now everything is the same all is pre cut and clamp. Electrical can be unpredictable and items burn out. Had to redo my whole entire system. Of course this was back when solar was first being used. I have learned a lot in the many years I have work with solar and grid systems.
@@cyumadbrosummit3534 - I'm no electrician, but I think a fair analysis is that on a Utility Line split phase, both the continuous amount of source voltage/ current, and the size of Step Down transformers utilized en-route to your house are capable of minimizing resistance loss to near zero. And I also believe that on an inverter system, small differences in wire length have a near zero impact on power transmission loss due to resistance (or inverter performance).
But it's clear that such a system is far less capable of compensating for any loss than the Grid, so it's probably best to get the wires as close as possible to the same length (if at all possible). On my setup I'm going to try to do exactly that. They won't be exactly the same length, but they will be less than 2 feet in difference (with 4/0 copper battery wire and 4AWG to the panel). And you can have greater differences in wire length (and less voltage drop) when you utilize larger gauge wire (obviously).
@@jamesrcoleii4577 I can't speak for the system you may have had years ago, but the system shown in the video has the two inverters operating independently and as such there is no need for the cable lengths going from the bus bars to the inverters to be similar. They don't have any load sharing going on so there is no way for one to be favored due to cable length. The only place you should ensure cables are of similar length here is for multiple paralleled batteries going to those DC bus bars. This is mostly covered in the video by pulling the negative and positive from opposite corners of the battery packs. That is an industry standard way of connecting four batteries together for moderately good load sharing, though not quite as good as having each battery have an equal length cable to the DC bus bar.
Seriously best video I’ve seen so far regarding setting up an off grid system. I’ve watched 100s of videos and not one goes into detail or provides the step by step setup that you describe in your video. You legit gave me the confidence and peace of mind to be able to try this type of setup. Thank you so much. Please keep posting in the same manner with the same level of detail! I am sure I speak for everyone here when I say something thank you for the clarity and ease of understanding.
Thanks for the fantastic video. I recognise and appreciate the extra amount of time it takes to film a setup like this :)
I give a warning on those class T fuse connectors. I used this style for hooking up my bare wires, The wires had slipped and melted and almost caused a fire.
Since then I only use wires with copper lugs attached to them. No problem since. 🖖
For your question about swiches/breakers at 4:50 I used MCCB molded case 2P beakers from TAIXI for about $100- these are available in 200/300/400 A DC-rated configuration. I also (like you) installed the T-Class fuses, since the breaker is mostly used as a convenient disconnect while the T-Class is for safety. Great Vid, keep em coming.
Beautiful set up nice wiring everything its clean and easy to read without drawings
Nice job changing the main bonding jumper to a #6! I also like how you finished the run to the source of the inverters in #6. I believe the EMT should have a bonding bushing with the main bonding jumper attached since you are extending the run from the inverters to the electrical box. Otherwise, it looks really good.
Thanks for the advice about getting someone to do it for me, I'm so ignorant but love to watch anyway.
I suspect the difference in amps on the inverter is because the dryer motor is probably 120 volts? So it would be plausible that one inverter might bear a little larger load because of that.
I think you're exactly right. I'll have to put the clamp meter on the neutral and check.
Yes, the drum motor is 120V. Plus all the other electronics is 120V as well, or at least pulls from 1 leg and then regulated from there.
So yeah, I agree with this assessment
@Danang Alta The heating element is 240V, everything else (motor, lights, control circuits) are likely 120V.
very nice video, learned a lot. a small trick i learned is to mark all connections you did check the torque on is to mark them with a permanent marker. so you can easily keep track of what is tightened correctly
That's a great idea and see it being done in some pieces of equipment as well.
@@LithiumSolar i was using it on large scale power distributions. one question, where do you connect the ground to ground in your system?
SUPER IDEA . SUPER POMYSŁ . POZDRAWIAM .
Great video! Blue Sea makes the fuse holder in the style you prefer if you ever need to find them again
Good job reviewing and great job editing.
Your video is excellent. Short to the point and shows what is needed to do. Thumb up for you and I will subscribe. For years I have used the 3kw (still do) for the whole house with NO 220V using recycle battery pack built in 100P 18650 cells. They are quite a pain and time consuming to build and rebuild every few years due to the recycle nature to start with.
Now with the price drop of LFP battery it is time to buy them new and new inverter that can do 220V and online monitoring capability. 3000W is plenty enough to run the whole house on 110V that is as i had been using that way for 4 years. 220V for the whole house 10k to 12kw inverter will do for most people. Battery cost is the factor for a lot of people. That is NO longer true as they are quite affordable now.
I build the whole thing up just like what you are doing. It is a fantastic hobby as there is NOT a day any of us not using power in this case we harness the photons from the sun into electrons which is truly a clean sustainable energy.
Not many people realize or know that these batteries will last longer than a decade so it will pay off for the investment in a short time and never have to worry about electrical outage when mother of nature strikes. I live in Fl and mother of nature is NOT very friendly for us here!!!!!!!
I will never do grid tie never was and never will. Too many people do not know going off grid does not cost that much more and never have to muck around with the utility company for that stinky net metering credit they pay. What a joke of that net metering and the cost of installing one. NO wonder people are not doing more of solar even just nearly everyone wants to. Honestly who would NOT like NOT to ever have an electric bill monthly again until death?????!!!!!
The more of us doing this the better and i find your videos to be excellent!!!!!!
Excellent video and instruction.
My only caveat, OCD Electrical Engineer warning, is in the dryer test section before final thoughts.
You multiplied the current by 48V for power.
One should measure the actual voltage for accuracy in calculations.
It is more than 48V. Each 1V adds 118W to the total.
A typical 48V system is actually 52V or more on average.
That would be almost 480W more than the figure you calculated.
At 48V, the battery system is close to empty.
Thanks again for such a detailed video.
These methods/ principles apply to almost any system.
You were absolutely correct. I was just making a rough guess but 480W is a big difference!
Your electric dryer is so green! You will single handedly save the planet (saving it from irresponsible idiots like me that have a propane dryer in my off grid solar house).
What exactly are you going on about? I never said anything in this video about being "green", saving the planet, or against propane dryers. There's nothing wrong with propane dryers.
@@LithiumSolar Sorry. Most solar off grid people are so anal about avoiding co2 generation (you know, they are single handedly saving the planet) and use electric everything. I built my system before global warming and propane seemed a logical way to avoid high drain electrical loads.
@@bearchow1929 I got where you're coming from and know the type LOL. This is strictly a fun hobby for me.
Nice clean setup and great detailed description about what you did and why. Thank you for sharing!
Fantastic video that’s a lot for the help
Really a big help
Very nice and neat setup
I wish I stayed with MPP instead of going with signature solar for my 6000ex I never had any issues with my LV2424 and if I did I had a answer within 24 hours Great costumer service
Looks super clean!!!
You mentioned not using a ferrule for the multi strand cable / lug connection. Another option is to use a piece of copper sheet (shim) wrapped around the conductor bundle. I've made Cam-Lok cables in the past and you get a copper shim with each connector fir this purpose.
in the NEC everything used in the electrical installation should used as it was designed to be used and also UL listed for said use.
Always the best 👍
Best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭
This is a fantastic video, well done
I really like your videos. And, I have a suggestion for a video. To my knowledge, there is no comprehensive video out there showing how to properly wire a Motorhome lithium battery system using Victron (or other) components. To include a DC to DC charger for protection of the alternator. What to do about the existing cross-connect switch for the house/starter batteries. Wiring the Inverter and Controller. And, properly replacing the motorhome's existing Charger/Converter. Also discussing potential problems (if any) when hooked to shore power while the solar charging system is still active. If you made such a video I think it would be very popular. Thanks.
Very good quality install, that system would be great for small cabin, fine job fine job. Can only dream about having that system. I have 400w panels, 400ah agm batteries and 1000w inverter. Keep putting out the great info.
Thanks, Is there a type of backer board you would recommend? I'm just going to head to the improvement story now. I think cement board would be hard to drill into.
HardieBacker cement backerboard is the stuff you want. Do not get the "USG Durock Board" stuff. It's impossible to cut without specialized tools and that epoxy smell never goes away. The HardieBacker can be screwed with regular screws that have a point on the end. It's fibrous, not a solid piece of rock like the name "cement board" suggests.
@@LithiumSolar Perfect. I love youtube! :). I just picked up 8 sheets. I'll mention you in my build video. Thanks!
Like to see, neat. Many DIY TH-cam videos do not not apply neatness.
Neatness is one of the keys to safety. Having cables going everywhere, getting tripped on, bumped, etc is a safety hazard for a number of reasons!
I was trained early in highschool wiring homes, next wiring military aircraft, last wiring helicopters for geophysics surveying. Always, every wire in braided wires, is neatly cut, before bonding to a clamp. For example, if you have a 12 wire strand, you can loose only 2 strands. In gauges 0 to 10, it’s not discussed by in data wiring it’s crucial. In a Tesla car, with very high currents, wiring curves dramatically affect power transmission. New DC charging systems, for Cybertruck and Semi truck are 1 giga watt at 1,000 volts, and you can imagine the field flux of these wires. For those serious, about charging Tesla vehicles at fast rates should understand neatness of wiring.
You've done such a great job building your channel since you started that you should be proud and pleased with your accomplishments. I knew that your channel would take off the first time I watched it several years ago and spread your name to some of the groups I belong to. Keep up with the good work and thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Great setup!
I'm planning on doing a backup power storage for my NAS and video surveillance system. Luckily I won't be needing any inverter or such complications, just a good LiFePo 24v battery and a beefy 12v buck converter to meet the current demands. Wish me luck 😂👌🏼
i notice that you didn't install a shunt. is that because you don't expect to ever need to measure the current easily? or just want to use a clamp meter and cut expenses? i bought a smart shunt so i could use my cellphone to check on batteries/power without going to the system.
It's a testing/demonstration setup. I have a shunt [Batrium] on my production system.
cool stuff, the panel in between the 2 inverter look nice and even
Nice clean setup. You do a great job of explaining the whole installation. First I would say the unit can take 4 awg. It’s a royal pain to get in there. I covered it in a video I made after I installed my 2 lv6548’s. The reason they recommend the gauge is mostly due to the surge in my opinion. But it’s worth the effort I would say. Even more so for the input. Although I realize you won’t be using that aspect of it. Also I would caution against having your main fuse box in that location. The units do vent out of the bottom. But a lot of the heat also vents from those side vents towards the bottom also. Once you have a large load or are charging you can check and see. They really need the full clearance from top to bottom with no obstructions. And Watts247 carries really great dc fuse/circuit breakers. I still plan on getting a couple 200 amp ones from Ian. He also has 150 amp. They are extremely heavy duty.
Great video, a lot of great info. I would love to see how to set up a grid tied system, thanks Matt
What all are you running on you system? That seems like alot for just the few breakers in that box.
This is just a demo system. It's not powering anything currently.
@@LithiumSolar lol. Im running my entire home, shop, barn off my system. The only thing i dont have on it is my hot water heater. And I'm trying to figure out a boiler system for it. My hot water heater uses 49% of my total energy consumption.
Very nice! These will be powering mine here soon. I'll be rebuilding my power shed here in the spring, just didn't have time last fall. Have you considered a hybrid heat-pump water heater? I installed one a couple of years ago and significantly reduced my water heating costs vs the old electric style.
@@LithiumSolar i have, just didn't know anyone using one to compare. You are running yours off your inverters? I have 4 teenagers plus me and ma'ma my hot water heater is a killer.. Lol
I used TAIXI TXCM1B MCCB Breakers 2Pole 200A as the Battery DC/Breaker between the LVs and the 1000A battery bus bar.
I'll check them out, thanks! They look similar to the ABB breakers I'm using for my other system.
Nice video. I appreciated the info re the inverter airflow as I thought mine had the fans in reverse. I don't know why they did them that way. I think the difference in loads on the inverters are due to the different cable lengths to the bus bars.
no surge protectors ?
This inverters are produced by the Chinese manufacturer called „Voltronic“. The EG4 inverters are also the same but only a different branding. In spain you can by this engines from „MasterPower“ and and and … 😅 Thanks for this very good Video. Best regards from Germany.
i think you ought to contact MPP and tell them they should change the connectors to match the cable sizes they require...heavy duty!!!
I could, but highly doubt they'll listen to someone like me. They really do need better terminals though...
Excellent job brother.
Wow.. thanks for the video! That cleared up soooo much. 😅
please do a follow up for PV connections to these. thanks!
I already have a video on selecting and sizing solar panels for an inverter. th-cam.com/video/QWJpafOHoD0/w-d-xo.html same properties apply here.
@@LithiumSolar thanks friend
So which inverters do you like the best? Thanks for sharing
As always very detailed and accurate. Would be nice to see a unbalance load with the 120 on one inverter high then the large 240 load put on similar to a real life situation.
each inverter is 6500 watt rated. Not many 120v appliances that can over load these inverters!
Since they each handle one phase that would be a fairly boring test. Dual phase inverters like the mpp6048 would be a different story I guess. They can only handle so much of a lopsided load before a warning code occurs. That really wouldn’t happen with these. So far I haven’t had an issue with mine. Running well and water heater as well as smaller loads.
@@uhjyuff2095 I would need 4 of these inverters I have seen 19000 watt surges on my AC a few times.
@@offgridwanabe microair
@@uhjyuff2095 yes that is one way but my geothermal water furnace has been around for 20 years now so I will keep it until it dies.
Why did you use one live wire for one inverter to be black and another live wire for another inverter to be red? And since you connected neutral wires and ground wires from both inverter touch one another, can I also let two live wires from two inverters touch one another? Thanks.
I highly suggest contacting an electrician to have your inverters connected based on the questions you're asking.
Plz do u have vedio on 3phase installation with victron inverter?
I don't have any experience with 3-phase systems.
Wow nice system
great work
Thanks for sharing 👍...I think Mpp Solar and Growatt are leading the Solar industry I mean we got name brands out there but they cost an arm and a leg
I wish victron could have units like this ...not separate mppt
@@thabisomodisane1435 I asked Victron if they planned to offer an all-in-one system for the US, and they said not at this time..
@@thabisomodisane1435 Victron wants ALL your money, not just some of it.
As soon as there is a screw involved in a terminal you should use a ferule on fine stranded wires, otherwise the screw can damage the wires an it can become loose
and keeps strands bundled so you get all the amps you're paying for.
Adding some wire ferrules would help in your wire clamps connections.
Adding wire ferrules where? I don't believe any of these connection points requires ferrules.
@@LithiumSolar At time stamp 9:44 you talked about having flattening the wire. We use them a lot where I work at for better gripping on those type of connectors. Just a thought
@@danielturek7334 This is THHN wire. I've never heard of putting a ferrule on THHN wire. What type of wire are you using where you're using them? They're typically only used with finer strands.
Do you leave it like that in the backyard 24/7?
No communication between the battery bank and the inverters?
Looks good brother. Thanks for sharing. God Bless
Ok,so you mentioned the 4/0 from the battery to the bus bars not needing to be the same length. Can explain that ? Thanks and great video. Just preparing to wire up 4 of the sok’s myself
Because he inverted the order for negative versus positive, he's already "evened" out the difference between batteries which is the only difference that matters. His negative cable could be a hundred feet long for all that it matters and although it would add a bunch of resistance that isn't good, it would add it EQUALLY to each battery, thus them all being in balance. IE it's not that negative and positive to each battery has to be balanced, it's that the total length (resistance) of each battery has to be balanced. Hope that helps!
The length (from rack to busbar) doesn't matter because it's one circuit. The current only has one path to flow. The place where it matters is when you have multiple runs coming together. For example, if I had two racks of SOK batteries, I would want the cables from each rack going to the common point (busbar) to be the same length. In the case of 2 racks, if the cables to each were not the same length, the battery with the shorter cables would be doing more "work" because of less resistance in the cabling. I hope that makes sense, I'm not the best at explaining in words.
While typing that out, I see someone else replied with the same thing (in less words) above :)
@@LithiumSolar ok awesome. Thanks for the explanation! I appreciate it.
@@jessesilver thanks for the explanation 😊
Hey! Great video! Its great to see fully detailed installation videos like these!
I also went with that same amazon t class fuse, but I also added one of those bluesea red battery switches to make disconnecting easier. The connections are on the back so I dont love it.
Ive been eyeing the "Suntree" DC breakers sold on the Renogy amazon stores but theyre expensive at around $100. Havent seen anyone used those yet!
Can you run a electric stove and dryer at the same time? How much watts does a stove use?
Nice job mounting your equipment. You should not block the venting for the inverters like you did with your electrical box. When they run under high load quite some heat will blow out of these venting holes. Since you blocked half on each inverter the internal overheating protection will shut them off.
Whilst this is off-grid, can the inverter feed back into the grid? I assume not?
No. This is not a grid-tie or grid-interactive inverter.
You are exactly right on the Blue Sea 48V breakers. I commend their service and sales folks for being forthright about the limits of their products, to ensure the safety of their customers.
60V DC 200amp breakers rated to not arc while shut off under load can be expensive, but worth it if something goes hot.
Do you see a difference or need to use a double poll breaker ti backfired your panel? I see it being done how you show and also back feeding the panel
Would it be smart to use ferrules on the #6 wire inputs to the inverters?
No, those terminals are designed to take stranded wires.
@@LithiumSolar hmmm. Saw stranded wire that you referred to, but relistening, you called “‘round” wire. U meant solid, I think, I saw and thought stranded.
@@johnnydfred It's THHN wire and contains 19 strands for #6. When you strip the insulation off, yes, it's round. I unwrapped the strands a bit so it was no longer round and better matched the square profile of the terminal. It's not solid wire.
Why do you have 2 fuses on the positive?
hey , system looks good , one question about rj45 cables connected to all batteries , what are they for ?
Great video. Very helpful and detailed and not too long 👍
Great video! Please help: I don't speak much English but I want to ask you why in split-phase and not in parallel? I live in Europe and I need 220V for utilities, I have the same two inverters and I want to create a system that allows me to manage batteries and home consumption. If I wanted to put them in parallel, do I have to connect them both to phase and neutral or just one of the two? Can you make a video about it? Thank you
What happened to your shipping container battery setup?
Nothing, it's still running 24/7.
Nice clean wiring job. But wrong load center used. You should have a main 60amp for each leg. It will protect your inverter from a short.
just wondering about adding a manual auto emergency off switch some where ,or does them fuse work for that?
That was an excellent presentation, clear and concise. Did you remove the bonding screws in each inverter as Will recommends?.
I removed the bonding screw in each inverter as MPP Solar (the manufacturer) recommends/approved of.
I prefer battery breakers instead of fuses, in particular Nader 200A 60V breakers available from Signature Solar. They can run at high currents (130Amps) without getting hot.
Also 4/0 cables are best for ALL battery cables into the LV6548 otherwise the excessive wire resistance at high currents will cause wrong battery voltages to be measured inside the LV6548 units which will lead to bad decision making (in float and bulk) as the units charge the batteries, or use measured battery voltages to decide to switch to grid power (SBU mode). Even with 4/0 cables the voltages could be off by almost a volt at 100 Amp currents from the batteries to each LV6548. The LV6548 units do NOT have separate, low current battery voltage sense wires which you could tie to the battery terminals directly.
Yes, the battery cables are a bit undersized here in this DEMO setup. It is not a permanent installation nor is it intended to be something people should copy exactly as-is.
You ran wire through the knockout of the inverter without using a bushing. Also, you hooked a 50amp cord to a 30a breaker for your dryer test. Stay safe! I thought the inverters idle power consumption was excessive, but I don't own big units like that, so maybe it's normal.
You must have missed the comments made where this was a test setup. Also, that's a 30A cord, it's 10awg. Even if it were rated for 50A, it doesn't matter as it's on a 30A breaker anyway.
I had an electrician install an interlock kit and a 30 amp inlet so I can plug in my gas generator. Can I plug this system into that 3 amp inlet, just like my generator. If so what do I need to add or take away to make this system apply to my situation Thanks for your help in advance!
Are the DC components approved for permanent installation in a building, ie acceptable under electrical codes?
No idea. I am not an electrician nor an electrical inspector.
The power of the sun, in the palm of your hand.
How do these inverters compare to the Phocos 6.5k inverters?
I'm not familiar with Phocos inverters. In fact, I've never even heard of that brand name before. I did a quick Google search though and see the 6500 model is a hybrid. It looks very similar to the LV6548 - unsure.
@@LithiumSolar Thanks for the response. It appears to be nearly the same, but with more compliant connections. And has code entry to enable feed back to the grid. But I've just not seen much information about them out there yet.
how close did you match the length of the battery cables +/- between the inverters and bus bars.
I have the same LV6548 setup with SOK batteries except not the server rack type. What I can’t figure out is why the battery voltage on one inverter is different than the other? It’s always .3 to .4 off. For example one inverter is at 54 volts and the other one at 54.4. When I measure the voltage with my meter on each inverter, they both match to what inverter 2 says. Inverter 1 shows a lower voltage. I also have to mention that inverter 1 was bought several months before inverter 2.
I know you've uploaded video for solar panel Array but it would be nice to upload again for this split phase , like big array and you test loads same time
Aren’t you suppose the crimp some of the wire ?
When do have you crimp wire and when isn’t required?
Are you referring to ferrules on stranded wire?
Are you running a heat pump for HVAC? If so, are you having any issues with the surge?
What are your thoughts on the EG46500-48?
The LV6548 is TUV Rheinland certified, why can you connect it with a grid feed?
It's not a grid-tie inverter. I assume by "grid feed" you mean connecting the AC input and using the built-in transfer switch on a subpanel. Yes, I could do that. I just don't want to use it that way.
Also, I'm not even sure if TUV carries any weight here in the US. I've never even heard of TUV until this inverter came out.
@@LithiumSolar Yes I know it’s an off grid inverter, however it can still be feed by the grid. A google search says that TUV certification is excepted in North America.
new subscriber here, well explained and nice clean job.
I am using the sungold power version of these exact same machines. They look identical except for color. Programs also work the same way
How do you get the inverters to communicate with the batteries? My batteries are at a very low state of charge but are not completely drained. Because the voltage has not changed much, the inverter register them as being nearly 100% and will not charge with utility power .
I have also tried hooking these up to four 460 W solar panels. The panels are bringing in the correct voltage but are bringing in no watts or amp and I cannot figure out why.
I really like this video, have any other video about how to connect your solar system to the grid ?
do you need to earthground your main panel? i dont want to put any rods in the ground.
Yes, it should be earth grounded. How that's accomplished will depend on your setup and your local electrical codes.
@@LithiumSolar it is going to be completely off grid however can’t I just use the ac input from the grid and draw no power wouldn’t it be grounded then
Shouldn’t the positive and negative wires be the same length from the bus bars for both inverters?
That would probably be best practice; however, don't see any reason why it would matter from a technical perspective in my particular setup.
use wire duct for the permanent install and lets get that grid tie .....also what state are you in
Are you talking about Grid tied or grid connected ?
People are doing these setups to get AWAY from Utility company/ net metering ! Utility companies are becoming increasingly more unfriendly to grid tied systems and they are already implementing base charges if your electric bill is less than their set minimum. Florida just dodged a bullet as they passed a bill in the senate pushed by FPL to strip net metering but Gov Desantis vetoed the bill ( yeah that guy that every blue state transplant hates) This is your writing on the wall if you think they will stop at this
Grid tie only benefits the ever powerful POCO. Battery systems benefit the resourceful owner who seeks freedom.
Thanks for all your videos, I am building a very similar system. I have question and cannot find any video about it. I am guessing that you need to even your arrays between both mpp, like array 1 on each mpp. How about between array 1 and 2 on the same mpp, does it make a difference if you close to max out one array and the second have not even half the rating?
Hi Lithium Solar, what is the model for your electrical panel box you used for the two inverters.
Pause at 2:22 and you can easily read the model number. It's a basic 100 amp subpanel you can pick up in one of the box stores.
Homeline HOM6-12L100
@@robertgiresi9515 its called a "load center" not a sub panel. "Panels" have bolt on circuit breakers and "load centers" have stab on circuit breakers.
@@uhjyuff2095 I'm not an electrician, so to my untrained eye it looked like a subpanel. It is marketed as a load center and that's certainly the way he's using it. My home load center connected to the grid has a main breaker which this model doesn't and my home subpanel doesn't have a main breaker much like this, so to me, it looked like a subpanel being used as a load center.
@@LithiumSolar Great video. I just purchased the same load center to use with my Delta Pro.
Nice video but I would like to see information about running and standby/idle mode energy use. That information would be extremely useful for those of those that have minimal solar energy available.
Replying to my own question I know it was stated that approximately 120 watts was being used with no power throughput. Is there another mode other than just off?
Just wondering why don’t you connect panel grounds to ground post outside ,
This is a temporary set up for demonstration purposes. You should follow your local codes as it pertains to grounding (or any wiring for that matter). If you're not sure, hire an electrician.
@@LithiumSolar Most You-tubers are seeking knowledge, not seeking advice to hire Electrician😇
@@adassociates8235 I know, but I'm not an electrician either and cannot directly offer you electrical advise. There is no ground post on this setup because it is a test/demo setup.
@@LithiumSolar 🇺🇸👍
Can you suggest cheap a low noise inverter?
You need to provide an earth ground someplace in your system. Bonding is okay but will not prevent current flow to one of the metal boxes in case of a short. To earth bond will protect by tripping a breaker or the T fuse on one side or the other. This is very important. Using only the auto-transformer neutral does nothing to protect your safety in such an event. This is similar to generators with no earth anchor where you have a floating neutral and also the possibility of turning the entire frame of the generator into a conductor for current. One touch in such a situation and you are electrocuted. It's not all that common an occurence so most 'take a chance' and avoid use of the earth ground, however to be safe you should go back and edit this video so no one follows your lead and loses their life or health. It is true you are earth grounded once you connect to your dryer, however with some other type connections, you are not. For instance if you install a receptacle box with duplex receptacle there is no ground to earth available which means your neutral and ground connection on the receptacle are connected. And if your hot leg is shorted to the box it's possible to get zapped because your set up will not take the hot short to earth ground and trip a breaker. Using the common ground in you AC box is good and bonding is okay but only if the ground is actually "grounded".
Curious, what is the surge rating of the inverters? Can it run your house A/c?
Different voltage from dryer is caused by drum motor is on one leg. That is the difference.
I get the same fault when firing up my batteries- Not sure if this is normal or not
well explained, Thank you
great knowledge. Thanks. Subscribed...
Nice video!
I've been under the impression that the EG4 inverters will only work with the EG4 batteries. Is that not so?
nope
unless you mean communicating thru data cables.... call manufacturer.