Ran into an old friend today and we had a nice conversation about our favorite Mr. Pete videos. TH-cam should have a walk of fame and Mr. Pete should have a star.
I never knew the back gear worked like that, I thought it was just to lock the spindle. I now have 3 more speeds on my late grandpas 1930s Sheldon. Thank you very much for this video!
I know this is an old video, but I ignored your advice and installed a new 48" serpentine belt, by removing the head shafts. Thanks to your manual diagrams, I was able to figure out how to get it apart. It actually wasn't difficult and I now have a belt that doesn't slip on my C9-10JR lathe, that I inherited from my grandfather, 30+ years ago. Thank you for taking the time to document so much of your knowledge.
Mr. PETE, I am very thankful for your videos. After watching your video on removing and inspecting the apron on the Atlas Craftsman 12" I decided to remove the saddle on my 12" that was bought 6 months ago. I am glad I did as there were 3 muddobber nest under it. The gears had ground parts of the nest away but plenty was left. While disassembling the apron I did loose the BB for the lead screw engagement detent. With the use of a big magnet on a handle I did find it for reassembly. I would not have tackeled this project without your video. Thanks again! L. Moore
These videos will help me get "up close and personal" with my newly acquired. tired and neglected SB 9" m=Model A. Thanks for taking great care in showing.
Great video, keep them coming. Just a couple of notes, there are three types of bearings used on these machines cast bearing, cast bearings that were segmented for better oil control and bronze bearings. You can tell if the unit has bronze bearings by looking for two small screws at the back of each bearing cap. These two small screws are used to hold bearing expanders. Cast bearing headstock do not have these bearing expanders. Also, some of the cone pulley are marked grease instead of oil. A special type of Teflon grease is used. And to some extent they are interchangeable. But when using Greece you must make sure you get the grease into the cone pulling. Use oil, you can just squirt some in, replace the plug and run your machine. Greece needs to be pressurized into the cone pulley. Make sure it comes out through the thrust bearing. also although it does not mention this on the oil chart, remove your guard on the far left and oil that thrust bearing, As often as you can. the only oil that it might get would be from the Left bearing. And that's not very much. It is the most neglected bearing on the machine. Joe.
If you have a South Bend lathe this far apart, I would recommend you remove the spindle and replace the spindle wicks. There's a video describing spindle removal in Halligan142's channel. It's a 5 minute job using some all-thread, nuts and a muffler part for clearance. In this lathe the spindle bearings are oiled via capillary action from the bottom of the wicks being submerged in oil. If the wicks become contaminated with water or sludge, the plain bearings will be starved for oil and that's not good. When I replaced the felts in my 10K I thought they looked pretty bad and my lathe was made in 1974. Mr Pete has so many lathes I doubt this one will see much use, but if you only have one it's best to go "all in" and re-felt the lathe and set the bearing clearance.
Lyle i have found a good way to repair missing teeth without replacing the whole gear. what you need to do is drill two holes either end of the missing tooth and then tap the holes. once this is done you can then insert and thread lock two threaded rods. trim them to length and then file to the correct tooth profile. this is not the most professional way of doing it but it reduces the chance of more teeth breakages.
You have it that far apart it seems like a shame not to repair or replace that gear. We would all to watch you do it! Thanks for all the great content!
I bought and refurbished a Southbend 9C lathe that was badly neglected by previous owners. It was pretty bare bones so I have gradually been purchasing tooling and missing parts such as the change gears. It didn't even have the back gears when I bought it so I found one on Ebay. Unfortunately, it had a broken tooth. The bull gear has a broken tooth also. I read that this generally occurs when people either spin the chuck unto the spindle hard while the back gears are engaged or when removing the chuck by whacking on a jaw. Hopefully, I will find the time to repair the broken gears as I won't use the back gears due to the clunking every time the two missing teeth come around to the where they would normally mesh.
This was very helpful understanding how the back gears are engaged on this lathe. You should re-title this video Tips #338 Inspection and Function of South Bend 9 in Lathe Headstock, Spindle, Back Gears.
Thank you for this video. I told you before I bought a 1948 SB 9" Mod A. I'm doing what you have shown in various videos. It is most helpful. I am currently in the process of preparing the parts for painting. My lathe may be just a skosh better than yours (no broken gears). I don't see any ridges on the bed ways but I'm positive they are worn, how much is another question. I can't tell how much I appreciate your videos. However I would be lost without them. keep 'em coming.
I have seen back gears broken twice in my life. One I am not sure of but the other was done by a shop hand spinning on a chuck while in backgear. He spun it on fast and when it hit its seat, pop!
The Hercus South Bend clone came in two flavours. One had plain bearings in the head stock and the other had rolling element bearings. My Hercus is the rolling element type. Mine, (a 1964 9A), also has V belt drive from the back. Other than that it's identical to most South Bends I've seen.
Now that its cleaned up it wouldn't take any time to do a quick coat of paint with a small brush -- just me, I love to bring stuff back-lol If it wasn't for all the wear on the bed etc. it would be nice if that one bad gear could be repaired or replaced, maybe a viewer has one laying around somewhere-? The bed may be worn but the headstock is still serviceable maybe for someone who needs one-? Hate to see a well made old school machine die. I have an old GE washer and dryer pair that are just shy of 40 years old (1977) and only this year started needing minor repairs, and when I saw what theyre selling in the stores for washers today I found parts on ebay and fixed both of them and hopefully good for at least another ten years. theyre built much better than anything on the market today. If im not mistaken, was it you Mr. Pete or maybe Keith Fenner or Keith Rucker who actually repaired a gear set by welding or brazing in material and re-machining the teeth-? Anyway, its still interesting to see the workings of this old school lathe, a person can never learn too much. Thanks from Spfld. Ill for all your effort and videos --
The back gear on my Hercus has a missing tooth on the same pinion. It was working fine when I went to look at the lathe. I discovered the missing tooth when I got the lathe home and was cleaning it up. I'm still using it, my logic was/is that I want to get used to using the lathe controls before I replace any stuff like that so I don't damage the replacement parts. That's getting pretty thin as an excuse now though.
I had several teeth missing on the back gear of my Hercus Model A. I picked up a good spare and replaced it. I have since bronze welded up the broken teeth and will one day, cut new teeth in it and keep for a spare. I am sure they get broken by people fitting and taking off chucks.
Please make a video explaining when you should use grease and when you should use oil. I know that heavy gears use grease and small, fine gears use oil but sometimes it can be confusing. Thanks
I use motorcycle chain lube on my gears. It is a high pressure lubricant and if you use the chain wax type the solvent dries off quickly and chips etc. don't stick to it. As an added bonus it is formulated not to be flung off when the chain, or gears in this case, are spinning.
Hello, I've got the same lathe as you. I think your thrust washer arrangement is assembled wrong. there should be a washer from that stack between the adjusting collar and the headstock casting on the spindle
I noticed two things that are different on my 9C: Mine came with a "thrust Washer" which I replaced with a Thrust bearing that is sandwiched between two washers. The headstock bearings on my 9C are not replaceable, they are actually bored into the cast iron and not made of brass.
Why is it so important to not touch the bearings? Is it that complicated to put new ones back in? sorry if the question sound stupid but its all new to me..by the way.. awesome channel! Regards
Have you worked on any of the lathes that had cast iron bearings? Supposedly the phosphor bronze bearings were replaced with cast iron bearings, from December 1939 through 1945, as part of the conservation measures needed during WWII. Thank you for your time.
hey Mr. Peterson I'm a huge fan of your videos I have learned so much from you thank you, if you ever want to sell one of your lathes or mills please let me know I live in Hammond Indiana not too far from you
hello mr pete I just wanted to say I love all your postings!!! but I would like to my 2 cents in. since you have this beautiful lathe tore down this far why don't you repaint it??? there are not going to be many left and it does derserves the care and respect you show your vidos. sorry for my spelling I have had the flu here but that's my voice. a nice rustoliam machine grey would be fitting!!
Thanks, this helped me...I have had mine dismantled twice...Question, is there a better way of changing to different chucks on the lathe instead of just putting it in back gear? . Sometimes my small 6 jaw buck chuck is locked in because it is heavy. I hate having to force against the gears to unlock it . I was thinking of some kind of non marring wedge just to be kind to my gears. Any thoughts ?....mrpete222 forever......Jeff
Back gears will not take a lot of force when removing a Chuck, especially if you hammer or jerk on it. If a smooth gentle pull does not break it loose, use a strap wrench around the: cone pulley. And always remember to put some oil on the threads before you install the Chuck. also remember that the only connection between the spindle/bull gear and the cone pulley is a small pin that can break. And don't slam it home. Gently turn it until it stops and then give it a gentle nudge. Nothing more. on a larger heavy Chuck, I like to put a 3/4" wooden dowel through the Chuck, and into the spindle bore. Leaving enough for a handle on each side of the Chuck. This gives you full control of the Chuck and it is less likely to fall when it reaches the end of the threads. It also helps you line up the threads when you are installing it. I can tell you from experience, I have smashed too many fingers, installing or removing a Chuck. Since I have been using a wooden dowel, I have not smashed my finger once. Joe.
Hi, I have a Sheraton 9A lathe, which appears to be a copy of the South Bend. I have an issue with it. The bearings in the headstock seem to bind up after a little bit of use. I replaced the thrust bearing, I shimmed the two main bearing clamps and generously oil them all the time but can't seem to find a balance between them being "loose" enough to spin freely and having a reasonable amount of rigidity in the chuck. Would you have any suggestion or reference to read up? Thanks
Lyle, was the vintage South Bend considered higher end lathe, model to model, than the Atlas? Also what model would be considered "the lathe to have" in the small South Bend lathes? Thanks
the 10L or the 13 is the most desirable. The spindle bore of the 10R is very small and does not accept 5C collets. The 10L does except 5C collets. the 10K accepts 6K collets directly in the spindle or with an adapter 3C collets. It has a spindle through hole slightly over 3/4" . The 9N has a 3/4" through hole through the spindle. Joe.
Is it really not worth repairing this lathe by making a new gear to replace the one with the broken tooth? Is it the machining of the part or the disassembly/reassembly that makes it impractical?
there is nothing that is impractical about repairing this gear. If you know what you're doing, it's a fairly easy fix. Remove a couple of screws, knockout a taper pen, Braze up the missing tooth, then cut a new face using a gear cutter. put it all back together, And you're done. An easier way may be to turn off the old gear and Loctite a new gear to it. That is assuming that's there's enough meat available to do this. probably the reason he doesn't want to fool with it at this time is that he has so many other lathe. And after the videos, he will probably sell it As is. Joe.
Lyle, just want to say that I love these videos. You have such a positive attitude, and it is really refreshing.
Ran into an old friend today and we had a nice conversation about our favorite Mr. Pete videos. TH-cam should have a walk of fame and Mr. Pete should have a star.
I never knew the back gear worked like that, I thought it was just to lock the spindle. I now have 3 more speeds on my late grandpas 1930s Sheldon. Thank you very much for this video!
I know this is an old video, but I ignored your advice and installed a new 48" serpentine belt, by removing the head shafts. Thanks to your manual diagrams, I was able to figure out how to get it apart. It actually wasn't difficult and I now have a belt that doesn't slip on my C9-10JR lathe, that I inherited from my grandfather, 30+ years ago. Thank you for taking the time to document so much of your knowledge.
👍👍👍
Thank you very much for the time and effort you put forth to share your knowledge freely with all of us!
Mr. PETE, I am very thankful for your videos. After watching your video on removing and inspecting the apron on the Atlas Craftsman 12" I decided to remove the saddle on my 12" that was bought 6 months ago. I am glad I did as there were 3 muddobber nest under it. The gears had ground parts of the nest away but plenty was left.
While disassembling the apron I did loose the BB for the lead screw engagement detent. With the use of a big magnet on a handle I did find it for reassembly. I would not have tackeled this project without your video. Thanks again!
L. Moore
👍👍👍
These videos will help me get "up close and personal" with my newly acquired. tired and neglected SB 9" m=Model A. Thanks for taking great care in showing.
👍👍
Great video, keep them coming. Just a couple of notes, there are three types of bearings used on these machines cast bearing, cast bearings that were segmented for better oil control and bronze bearings. You can tell if the unit has bronze bearings by looking for two small screws at the back of each bearing cap. These two small screws are used to hold bearing expanders. Cast bearing headstock do not have these bearing expanders. Also, some of the cone pulley are marked grease instead of oil. A special type of Teflon grease is used. And to some extent they are interchangeable. But when using Greece you must make sure you get the grease into the cone pulling. Use oil, you can just squirt some in, replace the plug and run your machine. Greece needs to be pressurized into the cone pulley. Make sure it comes out through the thrust bearing. also although it does not mention this on the oil chart, remove your guard on the far left and oil that thrust bearing, As often as you can. the only oil that it might get would be from the Left bearing. And that's not very much. It is the most neglected bearing on the machine.
Joe.
THANKS--that is priceless information.
Joe A Was about to mention the bearing thing too... You had it better said than I am able to! I believe Mr. Pete's lathe does not have bronze sleeves.
If you have a South Bend lathe this far apart, I would recommend you remove the spindle and replace the spindle wicks. There's a video describing spindle removal in Halligan142's channel. It's a 5 minute job using some all-thread, nuts and a muffler part for clearance.
In this lathe the spindle bearings are oiled via capillary action from the bottom of the wicks being submerged in oil. If the wicks become contaminated with water or sludge, the plain bearings will be starved for oil and that's not good.
When I replaced the felts in my 10K I thought they looked pretty bad and my lathe was made in 1974. Mr Pete has so many lathes I doubt this one will see much use, but if you only have one it's best to go "all in" and re-felt the lathe and set the bearing clearance.
Where do you get the felt and wicks for a first year south bend lathe?
Lyle i have found a good way to repair missing teeth without replacing the whole gear. what you need to do is drill two holes either end of the missing tooth and then tap the holes. once this is done you can then insert and thread lock two threaded rods. trim them to length and then file to the correct tooth profile. this is not the most professional way of doing it but it reduces the chance of more teeth breakages.
You have it that far apart it seems like a shame not to repair or replace that gear. We would all to watch you do it! Thanks for all the great content!
I bought and refurbished a Southbend 9C lathe that was badly neglected by previous owners. It was pretty bare bones so I have gradually been purchasing tooling and missing parts such as the change gears. It didn't even have the back gears when I bought it so I found one on Ebay. Unfortunately, it had a broken tooth. The bull gear has a broken tooth also. I read that this generally occurs when people either spin the chuck unto the spindle hard while the back gears are engaged or when removing the chuck by whacking on a jaw. Hopefully, I will find the time to repair the broken gears as I won't use the back gears due to the clunking every time the two missing teeth come around to the where they would normally mesh.
👍👍
This was very helpful understanding how the back gears are engaged on this lathe. You should re-title this video Tips #338 Inspection and Function of South Bend 9 in Lathe Headstock, Spindle, Back Gears.
Thank you for this video. I told you before I bought a 1948 SB 9" Mod A. I'm doing what you have shown in various videos. It is most helpful. I am currently in the process of preparing the parts for painting. My lathe may be just a skosh better than yours (no broken gears). I don't see any ridges on the bed ways but I'm positive they are worn, how much is another question. I can't tell how much I appreciate your videos. However I would be lost without them. keep 'em coming.
I have seen back gears broken twice in my life. One I am not sure of but the other was done by a shop hand spinning on a chuck while in backgear. He spun it on fast and when it hit its seat, pop!
The Hercus South Bend clone came in two flavours. One had plain bearings in the head stock and the other had rolling element bearings. My Hercus is the rolling element type. Mine, (a 1964 9A), also has V belt drive from the back. Other than that it's identical to most South Bends I've seen.
Now that its cleaned up it wouldn't take any time to do a quick coat of paint with a small brush -- just me, I love to bring stuff back-lol If it wasn't for all the wear on the bed etc. it would be nice if that one bad gear could be repaired or replaced, maybe a viewer has one laying around somewhere-? The bed may be worn but the headstock is still serviceable maybe for someone who needs one-? Hate to see a well made old school machine die. I have an old GE washer and dryer pair that are just shy of 40 years old (1977) and only this year started needing minor repairs, and when I saw what theyre selling in the stores for washers today I found parts on ebay and fixed both of them and hopefully good for at least another ten years. theyre built much better than anything on the market today. If im not mistaken, was it you Mr. Pete or maybe Keith Fenner or Keith Rucker who actually repaired a gear set by welding or brazing in material and re-machining the teeth-? Anyway, its still interesting to see the workings of this old school lathe, a person can never learn too much. Thanks from Spfld. Ill for all your effort and videos --
Nice cleanup .... Thanks for sharing ... Stay Safe...
The back gear on my Hercus has a missing tooth on the same pinion. It was working fine when I went to look at the lathe. I discovered the missing tooth when I got the lathe home and was cleaning it up. I'm still using it, my logic was/is that I want to get used to using the lathe controls before I replace any stuff like that so I don't damage the replacement parts. That's getting pretty thin as an excuse now though.
I had several teeth missing on the back gear of my Hercus Model A. I picked up a good spare and replaced it. I have since bronze welded up the broken teeth and will one day, cut new teeth in it and keep for a spare. I am sure they get broken by people fitting and taking off chucks.
Please make a video explaining when you should use grease and when you should use oil. I know that heavy gears use grease and small, fine gears use oil but sometimes it can be confusing. Thanks
I use motorcycle chain lube on my gears. It is a high pressure lubricant and if you use the chain wax type the solvent dries off quickly and chips etc. don't stick to it. As an added bonus it is formulated not to be flung off when the chain, or gears in this case, are spinning.
VERY INFORMATIVE. THANKS MR. PETE.
Another great video. I saw you at the Grizzly showroom in one video and I told the boss lady that I bet he is there to buy a new lathe.
Are you the man I spoke with 2 yrs ago at the pick up window??
Hello, I've got the same lathe as you. I think your thrust washer arrangement is assembled wrong. there should be a washer from that stack between the adjusting collar and the headstock casting on the spindle
Thanks--I better look on the parts list
I noticed two things that are different on my 9C: Mine came with a "thrust Washer" which I replaced with a Thrust bearing that is sandwiched between two washers. The headstock bearings on my 9C are not replaceable, they are actually bored into the cast iron and not made of brass.
I think those lathes were "war lathes"
Why is it so important to not touch the bearings? Is it that complicated to put new ones back in? sorry if the question sound stupid but its all new to me..by the way.. awesome channel! Regards
You Are " Great "...Love All Your Vids. best regards S. Wagar ,new mexico,usa
Great video, I'm wondering if you couldn't just use some motor oil.
Have you worked on any of the lathes that had cast iron bearings? Supposedly the phosphor bronze bearings were replaced with cast iron bearings, from December 1939 through 1945, as part of the conservation measures needed during WWII. Thank you for your time.
Sorry-never have
hey Mr. Peterson I'm a huge fan of your videos I have learned so much from you thank you, if you ever want to sell one of your lathes or mills please let me know I live in Hammond Indiana not too far from you
Nothing right now
actually many of the earlier SB 9" lathe had a 1-3/8", 10 TPI, not the more common 1-1/2", 8 TPI
Thanks
I have a 1929 13” southbend, I noticed your has “southbend” cast into the bed side. I wonder if that’s just something that came later?
Felicitaciones muy buena explicación y buen video
hello mr pete I just wanted to say I love all your postings!!! but I would like to my 2 cents in. since you have this beautiful lathe tore down this far why don't you repaint it??? there are not going to be many left and it does derserves the care and respect you show your vidos. sorry for my spelling I have had the flu here but that's my voice. a nice rustoliam machine grey would be fitting!!
THANK YOU...for sharing.
I have a underdrive with flat belt.
Thanks, this helped me...I have had mine dismantled twice...Question, is there a better way of changing to different chucks on the lathe instead of just putting it in back gear? . Sometimes my small 6 jaw buck chuck is locked in because it is heavy. I hate having to force against the gears to unlock it . I was thinking of some kind of non marring wedge just to be kind to my gears. Any thoughts ?....mrpete222 forever......Jeff
Back gears will not take a lot of force when removing a Chuck, especially if you hammer or jerk on it. If a smooth gentle pull does not break it loose, use a strap wrench around the: cone pulley. And always remember to put some oil on the threads before you install the Chuck. also remember that the only connection between the spindle/bull gear and the cone pulley is a small pin that can break. And don't slam it home. Gently turn it until it stops and then give it a gentle nudge. Nothing more. on a larger heavy Chuck, I like to put a 3/4" wooden dowel through the Chuck, and into the spindle bore. Leaving enough for a handle on each side of the Chuck. This gives you full control of the Chuck and it is less likely to fall when it reaches the end of the threads. It also helps you line up the threads when you are installing it. I can tell you from experience, I have smashed too many fingers, installing or removing a Chuck. Since I have been using a wooden dowel, I have not smashed my finger once.
Joe.
Thank You Joe....Jeff
hello, what measure is the shaft thread, and what measure are the cones of the shaft and tailstock?
7:46 what is the name of that Pin number 36? Mine broke and I need a new one.
Are you sure the spindle hole it is 7/8 because to me it is more likely to 3/4
Thanks for sharing sir...
Hi,
I have a Sheraton 9A lathe, which appears to be a copy of the South Bend.
I have an issue with it. The bearings in the headstock seem to bind up after a little bit of use. I replaced the thrust bearing, I shimmed the two main bearing clamps and generously oil them all the time but can't seem to find a balance between them being "loose" enough to spin freely and having a reasonable amount of rigidity in the chuck.
Would you have any suggestion or reference to read up?
Thanks
Sorry, I never had one apart
Lyle, was the vintage South Bend considered higher end lathe, model to model, than the Atlas? Also what model would be considered "the lathe to have" in the small South Bend lathes?
Thanks
yes-more costly than atlas. 10" is best.. Model A in the 9 series
the 10L or the 13 is the most desirable. The spindle bore of the 10R is very small and does not accept 5C collets. The 10L does except 5C collets. the 10K accepts 6K collets directly in the spindle or with an adapter 3C collets. It has a spindle through hole slightly over 3/4" . The 9N has a 3/4" through hole through the spindle.
Joe.
Is the broken back pinion gear pressed on or machined on?
Thank you for your videos. Very helpful?
👍
Is it really not worth repairing this lathe by making a new gear to replace the one with the broken tooth? Is it the machining of the part or the disassembly/reassembly that makes it impractical?
there is nothing that is impractical about repairing this gear. If you know what you're doing, it's a fairly easy fix. Remove a couple of screws, knockout a taper pen, Braze up the missing tooth, then cut a new face using a gear cutter. put it all back together, And you're done. An easier way may be to turn off the old gear and Loctite a new gear to it. That is assuming that's there's enough meat available to do this. probably the reason he doesn't want to fool with it at this time is that he has so many other lathe. And after the videos, he will probably sell it As is.
Joe.
whats the spindle thread , where put the chuck?
I have a 9" South Bend Model-A. Where can I find a schematic like Mr Pete has?
Try VintageMachinery.org
www.wswells.com
Too bad you don't disassemble and replace wicks, etc.
New custom tailored suit please.
the southbend is very similar as the sheldon lathe ,very very much bye