Hi Richard, Just starting to build my 00 DCc layout after many years absence, I find your videos very help and easy to follow enabling me to go in the right direction at the right time. I will keep watching and learning. Thanks Mate. Ken
Brilliant series, always helpful to see some routine tasks we all do (sometimes poorly) being completed proficiently. Always nice to learn fresh ideas.
I imagine that without your invaluable videos Richard, there would be a whole lot of confused DCC modellers out there my friend! You are a true asset to this community and have helped me out more than you can imagine! Plus, you make it look sooooooooooooooo easy? And you aren’t afraid of tackling absolutely any project, no matter how time consuming, or difficult, which is such an admirable quality in somebody so young : )... Even though there aren’t that many years between us, I have only just converted from DC to DCC and I’m afraid I have much, much, much to learn buddy! Although thanks to your utterly invaluable video’s, at least I’m not totally lost! I have to say though, I do find it pretty funny when people start giving you advice in the comments section, regarding different coloured wire, to make it easier to work out positive & negative..... I mean C’mon ladies & gentlemen!!! I think it’s plainly obvious that this is most definitely, not Richards’s first Rodeo!!! ; )... Thanks again for the video, for all your videos Richard! And I gotta say, this is probably the fourth, maybe 5th time watching this particular one, along with all your others.... Purely in the hope, that some of it eventually sticks !! Looking forward to the newest update on Everard 2! Gotta say Buddy, it’s already taking very nice shape! ; )....... Anyway! Out for now......
Really enjoying this series. I'm looking to start on a model railway soon as a beginner so this is eye opening to say the least. Look forward to the next episode!
Your camera control/work is excellent. It's so much more enjoyable to watch videos with a steady view and limited zoom useage. And the lining up the camera perfectly with whatever pointer it is you use..... You sir are a maestro. Thank you!
It's all looking good the cable you use for your bus wiring is PVC/PVC 2.5 mm twin and earth. I've watched all your videos and I'm really impressed in the way you plan and execute everything. I'm in the process of building a model railway in N gauge for myself and my son and I've found your vids to be really helpful. I use to be an electrician but stopped to look after my disabled wife and son.
Awesome video, very informative. I've been looking for good wiring explanations concerning (turnouts/switches/points) as I'm looking at building my very first model railway system. I've found some other videos and they were fairly good too, but you kind of brought it all home. Thank you. Great setup, wish I could check it out in person. you have really great modeling skills.
Thankyou Mr Warren Everard Junction has been an inspiration and your videos are very informative. Its thanks to you that I've started building Shuttler TMD its not as extensive as Everard Junction but is dcc of which I've never dealt with before. So far 2 47 1 37 and 1 60 all modified with Bachmann decoders except for a Hornby 47 which throws itself off points. Keep up the good work and good luck with the Granada restoration. I wish you were local so you could restore my project. Best wishes for 2017
Exceptional as always, this video has strengthened my resolve to do dcc though i approach it with trepidation with regards to the accessory switch as I will be using peco points. Wasn't sure how many bus wires were needed for track but your video is very informative. Looking forward to the next installment 😊
Nice DIY vids. Just a thought, available are rail joiners with wire already attached. Thought that would be a little cleaner. Excellent work, please keep it up
Just a thought, instead of t&e use 1.5 or 2.5mm2 singles what we use in conduit/trunking containment systems. Singles are stranded so you can crimp the spade connectors instead of soldering. When soldering place the iron onto the part first and let the heat transfer into the part before applying solder 👍
I'm new to model railroading.That said your videos are great.I haven't watched all of them yet but the ones I have really simplify things. The wiring video is great. Keep up the good work.
thank you ic82 for this video I was having some trouble with my 3 way point after I moved it and this video helped me to sort out the wiring so once again thank you. all the best neil gosling
The two most common electrical wire sizes in the USA are 12/2 (12 gauge rated for 20A outlets) and 14/2 (14 gauge rated for 15A lighting). If you look at the markings on the white vinyl insulation that wraps around the wires, you should see the gauge size marked on it.
Thanks for the update Richard - would it be possible to show how you'd wire up the Peco point motor please - i've got a few to do of my own and i'm really struggling….
***** I've used up my seeps now so will cover the peco ones in the next part or so. They look a bit more fiddly, but should have the same connections I guess. Cheers
Thanks for the wiring demo, but too many blue drop cables, i think i need to go white or red for positive DCC and black for negative DCC. In Australia green seems to identify earth, but brown is acceptable too. So maybe frog since it switchs polarity should be yellow or orange, I liked the pinkish switch leads. Totally agree with what ever style you start with must be consistent.
another very useful video on point motors, just ordered my first batch of 6 seep motors and switches to start with to see how I get on with them, how do you know you have them correctly lined up from under the boards, other then using a pilot hole screwed down from the upper surface from lining the motor up on top of the points, that's all I can think of doing, unless you have a better suggestion. Thanks again Richard finding this series very useful. Andy
Andy Hudson Thanks Andy. For lining them up i hold them by hand in position and move the point rod back and forth. I find the spot where the point moves very easily and hold the motor there. Then with the other hand I drill a hole and screw the motor from underneath. Then I'll make any final adjustments and put the other screw in. It's tricky, but you soon get the hang of it.
The mains cable will be "twin and earth" and either 1.5mm or 2.5mm depending if its "lighting" or "mains" cabling. 2.5mm obviously has fewer losses and is what I would use. I personally prefer the idea of the Tortoise motors with LEDs on the control panel to indicate which way the points are set, but its more £££ and more time.
Very informative video Richard, seeing it done like this makes it a lot easier to follow, just with the wiring I would suggest that any one who is not as familiar or as confident as you with wiring up should use different coloured wires for the DCC bus to track and similarly to the point motors and switches so for eg right hand wire from the point motor goes to the top terminal on switch could be blue left one to switch yellow ect that way there is less chance of crossing connectors and if there should be a short it would be easier to find the fault. Seeing the 3way point wired up clears up a lot of mysteries about them I feel more confident now about using one. Thanks...... Al
Alan Murphy Thanks Alan. You can colour code as much as you like. What I've done makes sense to me, but can be confusing if your starting out in the hobby.
From What I Can See & What You Have Described The Size Is 1.5Mm Common In Domestic Uk Household Wires. Richard Can I Take The Liberty To Explain To Your Viewers That When Using New Or Re Cycled Wire It Is Always Good Practice To Check The Wires For Any Cuts/Nicks & Especially In Re-Cycled Wire Look For Burnt Wire Which Show Possible Over Load At One Time! Any damage to the cable can reduce its performance & or may catch fire! Richard As Always Your Video's Are Well Produced & Informative, Great Work, Well Done!
TheAudiostud Thanks, yes cuts and other damage can cause a real problems especially with the dcc and dc signals under the board so close together. I bought that reel of cable new so I could avoid any issues.
hi everyone ,if anyone else wants to discover best model train layouts try Panlarko Amazing Railroad Planner (just google it ) ? Ive heard some amazing things about it and my partner got great success with it.
Great stuff! One thing though, it's so much easier if you use black and red wire for your droppers - I found that wiring my layout, it looked straightforward on top, but once you're underneath the baseboards, it's very disorientating!
tjf4375 I like to keep any track feeds in blue wire so I know what they are. Once wired you never unplug them so I didn't bother coding + and - I use black and red for point motors and signalling so wouldn't want to confuse them with track feeds as DCC can wreck some of the circuits I make for the signals and stuff. Thanks
Always better to use two colors for track feeders... Normally Black and Red... and remember to decide which color for which rail. I use Red on Right (or rail closer to the edge of the benchwork). I found it important to run my shortest wheelbase locos over turnouts while laying and wiring of track sections to check for possible dropouts or short circuits.
Hi Thanks for all the videos, they are proving invaluable as I build my layout. Have you got a video on installing and wiring a double slip? Regards James
Hello Richard, After following and enjoying your well put together videos for quite a while I decided to install Seep point motors (powered separately 12v) through a cdu like yourself but I'm having difficulty with the dcc controller shorting when I change the point switches .... I thought it could be that I didn't cut the two wires under the point rails as advised on instructions but then noticed you haven't !!! any ideas would be appreciated thanks ....
Dave Butterworth Check the position of the motor carefully. Sounds like whats happening is the polarity switch isn't quite making it across to the other terminal. That will cause a short with the point blade. If you keep getting problems you can cut those two wires under the points and that will solve the issue. Just bear in mind that cutting those wires makes the point solely reliant on the polarity switch working properly. Hope that helps.
Mate I've found your videos after a few years not interested in model trains, I'm getting back into the hobby and I've got a lot of your videos too catch up on! :P Keep up the awesome content you explain everything so well wiring is no where as complex as my childhood self imagined :P
Great video. Can I ask the wires you use to solder to the track and wire needed for point switches, what size of wire do I need to get to go to the switches and is the bus wires that run along the base board, are the bigger wires.
Great series Everard, its nice to see how somebody else does it all. About the point motors, the one on the bottom right of your control panel. it switches between two tracks and when one changes the other would also have to change to match up. Would it be possible to wire up two motors to the same switch so when the switch is flicked the points always change together?
Great videos - very informative and super camera work. One issue I had whilst watching 'Part 4 - Wiring' was that for both of the droppers from the rails you used blue wire. Perhaps it would be better to use a brown and a blue wire since your DCC bus wires are brown and blue - particularly as lots of folks are wiring up whilst underneath the baseboard? This could also possibly help to aviod confusion when wiring up for forg polarilty switching? One minor gripe - since DCC is around 15V AC, can you please try to aviod using phrases such as 'positive' and 'negative', being AC neither wire is positive or negative as both rails constantly switch polarity. Better to refer to them as 'feed' and 'return' or 'live' and 'neutral' or 'feed' and 'earth' - there seems to be no agreed convention here?? Always having the blue bus wire closest to the baseboard edge is fine - except where you have access to both sides of the baseboard. Roy Sage makes a good point in this respect to ensure correct polarity - using an old wagon marked appropriately. Just my two penn'orth. Keep up the good work!
Hi I new to the electronic side of things and I was just wondering what the part numbers for the switches splices and spade connectors Many Thanks Jade
Woody Wood In the yard I used very thin stuff, about 0.5mm. On the rest of the layout I used 1mm thick cork. 3mm will work fine if you want a more raised profile to the track.
Many thanks, an excellent video. Would it not help to colour code your droppers, etc. Also have different colours for the separate busses? One other thought. I use exactly the same switches. Because they return to "centre" you can't tell which way the point is set without looking at the point itself. If the switch rested in the left or right position it would show which way the point was last set. Best wishes, John.
+John Crook That would be handy, John. These Peco-type switches need a momentary contact. Are there 'momentary' switches that show the contact direction?
Very nice and informative video. Just one suggestion: Use the same, or similar, colours on your dropper wires as the bus wires; after all, once the track is ballasted you won't notice the colour of the wires, but it will be easier to install. I have used such a scheme on my layout, though with an additional yellow dropper for feedback (I use feedback modules which detects power consumption whenever my engines or DMUs passes a given section of track).
very nice work. A few suggestion though! Use different colours for the drop wires.. for example red for positive black for negative.. that way you are very less likely to make a short..
Before I stumbled upon this video I had no idea DCC even existed. I was getting pretty confused as to how you were controlling the whole layouts trackwork with just one circuit!
What type of capacitor would you recommend for the switches if you were to install them? I know there are different variations and wonder which one works the best
Hello Richard. Thank you very much for your videos. I have learned a lot and starting from scratch. I have a digital model with Z21 and Roco multimouse. But I have a problem with the peco MP1 turnouts, because they make me short and the connections are correctly made. I would appreciate your advice please. Excuse my English but it is done with the translator. Regards, and thank you very much.
I was wondering about the capacitor discharge (or whatever it's called) on the point motors. I've heard that unless you use them it can cause the charge to flow back and damage the point motor or something. Maybe I heard wrong. But you get these little packets of gizmos with those seep point motors. Look like tiny cylinders on the middle of a thin piece of wire.
Slim Charles With this setup you don't really need a capacitor discharge unit because the toggle switches only send a momentary burst of power when you briefly flick them. Sending continuous power to the motor or holding the switch for a long time will burn them out. A capacitor discharge unit will prevent that from happening. I've not seen anything extra packaged with my seeps but i've had them for a while. They must have changed them. Thanks
Slim Charles Capacitor discharge units work with either Hornby / Peco passing contact switches, momentary pushbuttons, stud and contact systems or sprung loaded toggle switches where they control solenoid type motors. They give a high current short length pulse of energy when activated that's enough to work the motor, but not enough to burn it out, also if the switch was to stick in the closed position, the C.D.U. wont be able to recharge and burn out the motor by continual streams of pulses. And no, SEEPs don't come with one. .
Surely a more logical place to solder the droppers to the sidings would be right at the end where the buffers will cover everything up? Also to make life simpler when wiring up, use 2 different colours for the droppers. Also you should use different colours for the DC and DCC busses, makes fault finding a lot easier if you're new to this sort of thing.
DieyoungDiefast You can colour code as much as you want. I didn't have very much wire apart from black, blue and red so just used that. I'm very familiar with the layouts wiring so often don't colour code stuff. The droppers get covered up and hidden with weathering and ballast. Most in this area will be covered by walkways and hard standing when I start the scenics.
Like your Videos, love your choice of Flux.(LACO self cleaning)) being a retires Plumber, may i offer a small tip. after soldering wash the joint with a little soapy water,removing the surplus Flux,this will stop corrosion, ensure a longer life of the soldered joint.
EverardJunction Hey love the layout. There is a bit of a difference when it comes to cabling. The solid core 1 - 1.5mm which it looks to be in size or any high voltage cable isnt suited for Extra Low Voltage (ELV) applications (DCC) the current dosn't flow properly along it. Its just something to keep in mind that if u find at a distance from the booster you have voltage issues under load. Personal note i cringe everytime i see you use one of those splice in crimp connectors there the cause of so many issues and headaches in my day job
Hi. Thanks for that wiring points is much clearer now . I do not yous D.C.C so I don't haft to worry with those wires? Thanks again grate video love them all Andrew Skilling
Andrew Skilling Hi Andrew. If you don't use dcc the wiring for the points is much easier. You don't have to connect terminals D, E and F to anything. Just focus on A, B and C.
the cable you use is twin and earth and comes in 1.0mm ,1.5mm or 2.5mm squared, this is the size of the core of the single cables i use the same for my bus wire
EverardJunction Here in the States it would be called 14/2, Giving you 2 wires or 14/2 with ground giving you 2 wires that are jacketed and one not for ground, or earth...14 being 14 gauge. I'm sure its said a bit differently in different pats of the US.
I'm really enjoying this series of vids on how to create a very nice layout, full marks for the finished effect. I'm confused though, with regard to the wiring, as to why you didn't colour code the dropper wires?!? Or, at least, recommend it? Using a different colour for either side of the track would surely make connection to the buses so much more certain.
+GUNS4MIKE1234 14 ga minimum for household (15amp under 70' length), but that's still over-kill here for these purposes. It's OK, better safer than sorry.
I think household flex is normally gauge #14 rated at 15 amps but I imagine this may vary with country, I'm in Australia with 240 volt system. Naughty, naughty, crimp connectors are designed for crimping, I know people bag them but they are good enough for the aircraft industry. ps I often solder crimps too.. Thanks for another great vid
Stewart D St Aldhelms Railway I'm not a great fan of the crimp connectors. They cause me endless issues at work (classic cars). However in this application they are not disturbed and don't get exposed to any moisture so work surprisingly well. I've not had a failure in 5 years.
EverardJunction I was just stirring a bit but totally agree with you, just a thing my boss would say. Besides crimps with solid core wires would be crap anyway and most likely fall off. Go with what works is my belief. Crimps can be reliable but you need the correct tool "not the cheap pliers type" and the correct gauge and type wires. There are many cheep tools and connectors that have given crimps a bad name. Stew
Now this is a good video as it put to bed most of my worries concerning electrofrog turnouts. There is one thing that puzzles me though and that is the "earth" tag on the Seep point motor - where does it go and why? I`ll be using Seeps so I need to know this.
What tool do you use to snip the extended pin? Would be useful to see how you do this on the video as I find the extended pin drops out under tension, losing the washers and springs - very annoying after all the effort to solder and fit them under a baseboard. And how much of the pin do you leave showing? Too much and some trains catch it, too little and you risk losing a perfectly good point motor.
Take some sandpaper and clean the oxide off the wire before you attempt to solder. Flux is not sufficient. Also clean the soldering iron tip. Works better wnen you do.
Your use of colour for the cabling makes me cry a little.... I'd need it to be a lot clearer, running an earth on black and splicing it into a blue... So much wrong with that :) Not in "it won't work" wrong way, just a "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?" wrong way.
i know what gauge wire that is, I believe it is 14 or 12 gauge. 14 based on the color standard we use here in the US for the outer insulation, 14 is usually white and 12 is yellow insulation "usually". 12 is also possible as you can order all sizes of wire in just about any color.
What solder iron do u use make model volt ect Would any solder work and do you solder the wire then attach to track/points. How do you cut the bus wires and the splice/wire connectors how do they work install
Matthew Stamp Soldering iron is a maplin 50W one. Any solder will work. The stuff i'm using is very old and you can't get it anymore. I cut the wires with wire cutters and fit the splicers using some pliers.
Cheers for that, great work through. I am still undecided about the method of control for the points on the new layout, I want to control everything via DCC but the cost of getting the accessory decoders is a bit prohibited, but the thought of "control panels", CDU's, wiring etc for a separate manual control is very scary! I do like the idea of manual switching, it seems to be more as though you are actually running the layout. I assume that I could wire manual control and then at some future point make a few of the points DCC controlled for continuous running or route scheduling via the ECOS when I have the cash. I am most greatful for your videos, extreemly straighforward and plain speaking. Looking forward to the control panel making .. demystifying it all.
***** I prefer manual switching on the control board as it's more like running a real railway. If you rig up everything to dcc you'll have loads of point addresses to remember and spend a lot of time tapping away on the controller. I find a switch on a panel to be easier and faster. You don't need to worry about a CDU if you don't want one. The toggle switches prevent any issues.
For everyone complaining about wire colors, he's in britain, they use a different standard for wire colors over there. Though the soldering instead of crimping did seem very weird....
The standard for canceling is live is brown, blue is neutral and yellow green is earth. The issue is that he hasn't differentiated the cables not the colours themselves. Using all blue droppers makes it hard to tell. The practice usually is red and black to make it easy at a glance.
Another great instalment mate, very very helpful indeed. Stupid question I know, but I guess you just cut off the excess upright length on the point motors? Jack
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Hi Richard, Just starting to build my 00 DCc layout after many years absence, I find your videos very help and easy to follow enabling me to go in the right direction at the right time. I will keep watching and learning. Thanks Mate. Ken
Brilliant series, always helpful to see some routine tasks we all do (sometimes poorly) being completed proficiently. Always nice to learn fresh ideas.
David McClelland Thanks David
I imagine that without your invaluable videos Richard, there would be a whole lot of confused DCC modellers out there my friend! You are a true asset to this community and have helped me out more than you can imagine! Plus, you make it look sooooooooooooooo easy? And you aren’t afraid of tackling absolutely any project, no matter how time consuming, or difficult, which is such an admirable quality in somebody so young : )... Even though there aren’t that many years between us, I have only just converted from DC to DCC and I’m afraid I have much, much, much to learn buddy! Although thanks to your utterly invaluable video’s, at least I’m not totally lost!
I have to say though, I do find it pretty funny when people start giving you advice in the comments section, regarding different coloured wire, to make it easier to work out positive & negative..... I mean C’mon ladies & gentlemen!!! I think it’s plainly obvious that this is most definitely, not Richards’s first Rodeo!!! ; )...
Thanks again for the video, for all your videos Richard! And I gotta say, this is probably the fourth, maybe 5th time watching this particular one, along with all your others.... Purely in the hope, that some of it eventually sticks !!
Looking forward to the newest update on Everard 2! Gotta say Buddy, it’s already taking very nice shape! ; )....... Anyway! Out for now......
Really enjoying this series. I'm looking to start on a model railway soon as a beginner so this is eye opening to say the least. Look forward to the next episode!
Your camera control/work is excellent. It's so much more enjoyable to watch videos with a steady view and limited zoom useage. And the lining up the camera perfectly with whatever pointer it is you use..... You sir are a maestro. Thank you!
It's all looking good the cable you use for your bus wiring is PVC/PVC 2.5 mm twin and earth. I've watched all your videos and I'm really impressed in the way you plan and execute everything. I'm in the process of building a model railway in N gauge for myself and my son and I've found your vids to be really helpful. I use to be an electrician but stopped to look after my disabled wife and son.
Paul Burrows Thanks for letting me know the size of the wire. Always wondered what it actually was.
Awesome video, very informative. I've been looking for good wiring explanations concerning (turnouts/switches/points) as I'm looking at building my very first model railway system. I've found some other videos and they were fairly good too, but you kind of brought it all home. Thank you. Great setup, wish I could check it out in person. you have really great modeling skills.
Thankyou Mr Warren Everard Junction has been an inspiration and your videos are very informative. Its thanks to you that I've started building Shuttler TMD its not as extensive as Everard Junction but is dcc of which I've never dealt with before. So far 2 47 1 37 and 1 60 all modified with Bachmann decoders except for a Hornby 47 which throws itself off points. Keep up the good work and good luck with the Granada restoration. I wish you were local so you could restore my project. Best wishes for 2017
Exceptional as always, this video has strengthened my resolve to do dcc though i approach it with trepidation with regards to the accessory switch as I will be using peco points. Wasn't sure how many bus wires were needed for track but your video is very informative. Looking forward to the next installment 😊
Huge thanks for posting this - has helped clear a lot of things in my mind. Now to put them all into practice.......!
Regards, Alasdair
Alasdair MacG Thanks Alasdair
Another very enjoyable and informative video Richard. Especially like watching the electrical stuff.
Colin
Nice DIY vids. Just a thought, available are rail joiners with wire already attached. Thought that would be a little cleaner. Excellent work, please keep it up
Just a thought, instead of t&e use 1.5 or 2.5mm2 singles what we use in conduit/trunking containment systems. Singles are stranded so you can crimp the spade connectors instead of soldering. When soldering place the iron onto the part first and let the heat transfer into the part before applying solder 👍
I'm new to model railroading.That said your videos are great.I haven't watched all of them yet but the ones I have really simplify things. The wiring video is great. Keep up the good work.
thank you ic82 for this video I was having some trouble with my 3 way point after I moved it and this video helped me to sort out the wiring so once again thank you. all the best neil gosling
so sorry everard junction I was watching ic82 just be for your video once again so sorry neil gosling
Neil Gosling Thanks Neil. Glad you got it sorted.
The two most common electrical wire sizes in the USA are 12/2 (12 gauge rated for 20A outlets) and 14/2 (14 gauge rated for 15A lighting). If you look at the markings on the white vinyl insulation that wraps around the wires, you should see the gauge size marked on it.
"Mystery Of The Three-Way Electrofrog Turnouts Revealed" - Yay! My *aha* moment was you explaining there were *two* point motors involved.
Perfect Friday evening viewing with a ice cold beer, cheers.
On my former DCC layout, I used Red and Black wires for both Bus wires and droppers. It is far easier when connecting the right dropper to the bus.
Excellent informative video, really enjoying watching these videos.
Good stuff... you definitely won't have to worry about the bus wires running hot or catching fire! :)
Thanks for the update Richard - would it be possible to show how you'd wire up the Peco point motor please - i've got a few to do of my own and i'm really struggling….
***** I've used up my seeps now so will cover the peco ones in the next part or so. They look a bit more fiddly, but should have the same connections I guess. Cheers
DCC makes them run so smoothly and realistically
Thanks for the wiring demo, but too many blue drop cables, i think i need to go white or red for positive DCC and black for negative DCC. In Australia green seems to identify earth, but brown is acceptable too. So maybe frog since it switchs polarity should be yellow or orange, I liked the pinkish switch leads. Totally agree with what ever style you start with must be consistent.
another very useful video on point motors, just ordered my first batch of 6 seep motors and switches to start with to see how I get on with them, how do you know you have them correctly lined up from under the boards, other then using a pilot hole screwed down from the upper surface from lining the motor up on top of the points, that's all I can think of doing, unless you have a better suggestion. Thanks again Richard finding this series very useful.
Andy
Andy Hudson Thanks Andy. For lining them up i hold them by hand in position and move the point rod back and forth. I find the spot where the point moves very easily and hold the motor there. Then with the other hand I drill a hole and screw the motor from underneath. Then I'll make any final adjustments and put the other screw in. It's tricky, but you soon get the hang of it.
I would definitely use different color wires for each rail, a short well cost you!!
Thanks a lot Al looking forward to next video. Al.
The mains cable will be "twin and earth" and either 1.5mm or 2.5mm depending if its "lighting" or "mains" cabling. 2.5mm obviously has fewer losses and is what I would use. I personally prefer the idea of the Tortoise motors with LEDs on the control panel to indicate which way the points are set, but its more £££ and more time.
Very informative video Richard, seeing it done like this makes it a lot easier to follow, just with the wiring I would suggest that any one who is not as familiar or as confident as you with wiring up should use different coloured wires for the DCC bus to track and similarly to the point motors and switches so for eg right hand wire from the point motor goes to the top terminal on switch could be blue left one to switch yellow ect that way there is less chance of crossing connectors and if there should be a short it would be easier to find the fault. Seeing the 3way point wired up clears up a lot of mysteries about them I feel more confident now about using one. Thanks......
Al
Alan Murphy Thanks Alan. You can colour code as much as you like. What I've done makes sense to me, but can be confusing if your starting out in the hobby.
thank for your reply and time all the best phil
its a shame your videos only get 1 in a hundred likes, they are so well made and really useful to find info
From What I Can See & What You Have Described The Size Is 1.5Mm Common In Domestic Uk Household Wires. Richard Can I Take The Liberty To Explain To Your Viewers That When Using New Or Re Cycled Wire It Is Always Good Practice To Check The Wires For Any Cuts/Nicks & Especially In Re-Cycled Wire Look For Burnt Wire Which Show Possible Over Load At One Time! Any damage to the cable can reduce its performance & or may catch fire! Richard As Always Your Video's Are Well Produced & Informative, Great Work, Well Done!
TheAudiostud Thanks, yes cuts and other damage can cause a real problems especially with the dcc and dc signals under the board so close together. I bought that reel of cable new so I could avoid any issues.
I'm currently upgrading my dc layout to dcc, this video is really helpful, thank you!
those spade connectors work better if you crimp them on
Noah Stoddert ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttjejej
Harry Abbott feline like typing detected..
hi everyone ,if anyone else wants to discover best model train layouts try Panlarko Amazing Railroad Planner (just google it ) ? Ive heard some amazing things about it and my partner got great success with it.
Great stuff! One thing though, it's so much easier if you use black and red wire for your droppers - I found that wiring my layout, it looked straightforward on top, but once you're underneath the baseboards, it's very disorientating!
tjf4375 I like to keep any track feeds in blue wire so I know what they are. Once wired you never unplug them so I didn't bother coding + and -
I use black and red for point motors and signalling so wouldn't want to confuse them with track feeds as DCC can wreck some of the circuits I make for the signals and stuff. Thanks
EverardJunction Fair enough, that makes sense :)
I'm writing his before I've actually watched it, but I'm pretty sure I can say it anyway...
Great update. Looks ace.
The `Bus Wire` is 1.5mm Twin & Earth by the look of it, you can get it in singles, and it is stranded, much easier to work with!!
Watched it, yeah, it was a pretty good video. Top class as always.
Always better to use two colors for track feeders... Normally Black and Red... and remember to decide which color for which rail. I use Red on Right (or rail closer to the edge of the benchwork). I found it important to run my shortest wheelbase locos over turnouts while laying and wiring of track sections to check for possible dropouts or short circuits.
Hi
Thanks for all the videos, they are proving invaluable as I build my layout.
Have you got a video on installing and wiring a double slip?
Regards
James
Hello Richard,
After following and enjoying your well put together videos for quite a while I decided to install Seep point motors (powered separately 12v) through a cdu like yourself but I'm having difficulty with the dcc controller shorting when I change the point switches ....
I thought it could be that I didn't cut the two wires under the point rails as advised on instructions but then noticed you haven't !!! any ideas would be appreciated thanks ....
Dave Butterworth Check the position of the motor carefully. Sounds like whats happening is the polarity switch isn't quite making it across to the other terminal. That will cause a short with the point blade. If you keep getting problems you can cut those two wires under the points and that will solve the issue. Just bear in mind that cutting those wires makes the point solely reliant on the polarity switch working properly. Hope that helps.
Why don't you use a crimper to fix the connectors to the wire?
Because it's easier to fox if it goes wrong and more reusable
Mate I've found your videos after a few years not interested in model trains, I'm getting back into the hobby and I've got a lot of your videos too catch up on! :P Keep up the awesome content you explain everything so well wiring is no where as complex as my childhood self imagined :P
Alex Caines Thanks
EverardJunction new.ehattons.com
Most household wire (Romex) is #14 or #12 AWG
Thanks you for comment
Great video. Can I ask the wires you use to solder to the track and wire needed for point switches, what size of wire do I need to get to go to the switches and is the bus wires that run along the base board, are the bigger wires.
Just wondering what kind of connectors are you using to connect your feeder wires to the bus wired. Thanks
Great series Everard, its nice to see how somebody else does it all.
About the point motors, the one on the bottom right of your control panel. it switches between two tracks and when one changes the other would also have to change to match up.
Would it be possible to wire up two motors to the same switch so when the switch is flicked the points always change together?
BladeRunner21577 Correct, I will be doing that. Just didn't think of it at the time.
Great videos - very informative and super camera work. One issue I had whilst watching 'Part 4 - Wiring' was that for both of the droppers from the rails you used blue wire. Perhaps it would be better to use a brown and a blue wire since your DCC bus wires are brown and blue - particularly as lots of folks are wiring up whilst underneath the baseboard? This could also possibly help to aviod confusion when wiring up for forg polarilty switching? One minor gripe - since DCC is around 15V AC, can you please try to aviod using phrases such as 'positive' and 'negative', being AC neither wire is positive or negative as both rails constantly switch polarity. Better to refer to them as 'feed' and 'return' or 'live' and 'neutral' or 'feed' and 'earth' - there seems to be no agreed convention here?? Always having the blue bus wire closest to the baseboard edge is fine - except where you have access to both sides of the baseboard. Roy Sage makes a good point in this respect to ensure correct polarity - using an old wagon marked appropriately. Just my two penn'orth. Keep up the good work!
Can I use seep motors on dcc but just ignore the frog and dcc ports?
@3:60, where do you connect those two spades you soldered with the holes through them?
Fantastic Informative Video.
Could you please tell what gauge wire you use for your dropper wires and the wires you use for your point motors ?
love all youre videos and keep them comming :)
Hi I new to the electronic side of things and I was just wondering what the part numbers for the switches splices and spade connectors
Many Thanks
Jade
Thank you now I can get on with mine.
What size cork do you use 3mm or 5mm?
Woody Wood In the yard I used very thin stuff, about 0.5mm. On the rest of the layout I used 1mm thick cork. 3mm will work fine if you want a more raised profile to the track.
13:15 testing, you mean playing! Ha! Love this hobby!
Jesus thats some job there sir :)
Many thanks, an excellent video. Would it not help to colour code your droppers, etc. Also have different colours for the separate busses?
One other thought. I use exactly the same switches. Because they return to "centre" you can't tell which way the point is set without looking at the point itself. If the switch rested in the left or right position it would show which way the point was last set.
Best wishes, John.
+John Crook
That would be handy, John. These Peco-type switches need a momentary contact. Are there 'momentary' switches that show the contact direction?
You can use thinner you don't need that much current capacity
Very nice and informative video. Just one suggestion: Use the same, or similar, colours on your dropper wires as the bus wires; after all, once the track is ballasted you won't notice the colour of the wires, but it will be easier to install. I have used such a scheme on my layout, though with an additional yellow dropper for feedback (I use feedback modules which detects power consumption whenever my engines or DMUs passes a given section of track).
very nice work. A few suggestion though!
Use different colours for the drop wires.. for example red for positive black for negative.. that way you are very less likely to make a short..
Mithun Karmakar. Exactly my point!
Never seen anyone but a crass idiot use the same colour wires for positive and negative. Very strange.
Before I stumbled upon this video I had no idea DCC even existed. I was getting pretty confused as to how you were controlling the whole layouts trackwork with just one circuit!
What type of capacitor would you recommend for the switches if you were to install them? I know there are different variations and wonder which one works the best
Hello Richard.
Thank you very much for your videos.
I have learned a lot and starting from scratch.
I have a digital model with Z21 and Roco multimouse.
But I have a problem with the peco MP1 turnouts, because they make me short and the connections are correctly made.
I would appreciate your advice please.
Excuse my English but it is done with the translator.
Regards, and thank you very much.
I was wondering about the capacitor discharge (or whatever it's called) on the point motors. I've heard that unless you use them it can cause the charge to flow back and damage the point motor or something. Maybe I heard wrong. But you get these little packets of gizmos with those seep point motors. Look like tiny cylinders on the middle of a thin piece of wire.
Slim Charles With this setup you don't really need a capacitor discharge unit because the toggle switches only send a momentary burst of power when you briefly flick them. Sending continuous power to the motor or holding the switch for a long time will burn them out. A capacitor discharge unit will prevent that from happening. I've not seen anything extra packaged with my seeps but i've had them for a while. They must have changed them. Thanks
Brian UK Yeah...maybe. It's been a couple of years since I hooked up a SEEP point motor.
Slim Charles Capacitor discharge units work with either Hornby / Peco passing contact switches, momentary pushbuttons, stud and contact systems or sprung loaded toggle switches where they control solenoid type motors. They give a high current short length pulse of energy when activated that's enough to work the motor, but not enough to burn it out, also if the switch was to stick in the closed position, the C.D.U. wont be able to recharge and burn out the motor by continual streams of pulses. And no, SEEPs don't come with one. .
Surely a more logical place to solder the droppers to the sidings would be right at the end where the buffers will cover everything up? Also to make life simpler when wiring up, use 2 different colours for the droppers. Also you should use different colours for the DC and DCC busses, makes fault finding a lot easier if you're new to this sort of thing.
DieyoungDiefast You can colour code as much as you want. I didn't have very much wire apart from black, blue and red so just used that. I'm very familiar with the layouts wiring so often don't colour code stuff.
The droppers get covered up and hidden with weathering and ballast. Most in this area will be covered by walkways and hard standing when I start the scenics.
Like your Videos, love your choice of Flux.(LACO self cleaning)) being a retires Plumber, may i offer a small tip. after soldering wash the joint with a little soapy water,removing the surplus Flux,this will stop corrosion, ensure a longer life of the soldered joint.
EverardJunction Hey love the layout. There is a bit of a difference when it comes to cabling. The solid core 1 - 1.5mm which it looks to be in size or any high voltage cable isnt suited for Extra Low Voltage (ELV) applications (DCC) the current dosn't flow properly along it. Its just something to keep in mind that if u find at a distance from the booster you have voltage issues under load.
Personal note i cringe everytime i see you use one of those splice in crimp connectors there the cause of so many issues and headaches in my day job
Really informative video. What size cable did you use for the dropper wires? Thanks Paul
20:57 That music sounded very familiar.
can you do a detailed video of the peko pl10 please
excellent as always. thanks :)
Great! What thickness of cork for baseboard and track?
what's that connection you have made into your BUS wire?
Hi. Thanks for that wiring points is much clearer now . I do not yous D.C.C so I don't haft to worry with those wires?
Thanks again grate video love them all
Andrew Skilling
Andrew Skilling Hi Andrew. If you don't use dcc the wiring for the points is much easier. You don't have to connect terminals D, E and F to anything. Just focus on A, B and C.
Love you so much
the cable you use is twin and earth and comes in 1.0mm ,1.5mm or 2.5mm squared, this is the size of the core of the single cables i use the same for my bus wire
646klein Thanks for letting me know.
EverardJunction Here in the States it would be called 14/2, Giving you 2 wires or 14/2 with ground giving you 2 wires that are jacketed and one not for ground, or earth...14 being 14 gauge. I'm sure its said a bit differently in different pats of the US.
I'm really enjoying this series of vids on how to create a very nice layout, full marks for the finished effect. I'm confused though, with regard to the wiring, as to why you didn't colour code the dropper wires?!? Or, at least, recommend it? Using a different colour for either side of the track would surely make connection to the buses so much more certain.
I am pretty sure it is 14 gauge wire solid core since that is the gauge of the stuff going through a typical American home.
+GUNS4MIKE1234 14 ga minimum for household (15amp under 70' length), but that's still over-kill here for these purposes. It's OK, better safer than sorry.
hey where did you order your bus wire and connectors from do you also have a item number??
Hi, very good tutorial, thanks for sharing.
Gérard.
from where you buy the railway track and train
Why in world would you use the same color wire on both sides?. That's asking for trouble?
I think household flex is normally gauge #14 rated at 15 amps but I imagine this may vary with country, I'm in Australia with 240 volt system.
Naughty, naughty, crimp connectors are designed for crimping, I know people bag them but they are good enough for the aircraft industry.
ps I often solder crimps too..
Thanks for another great vid
Stewart D St Aldhelms Railway I'm not a great fan of the crimp connectors. They cause me endless issues at work (classic cars). However in this application they are not disturbed and don't get exposed to any moisture so work surprisingly well. I've not had a failure in 5 years.
EverardJunction I was just stirring a bit but totally agree with you, just a thing my boss would say. Besides crimps with solid core wires would be crap anyway and most likely fall off. Go with what works is my belief.
Crimps can be reliable but you need the correct tool "not the cheap pliers type" and the correct gauge and type wires. There are many cheep tools and connectors that have given crimps a bad name.
Stew
Before soldering the spade connector to the bus wires I would probably crimp them down on the wire.
Brian UK I like to keep sections removable to allow for future alterations and allow for easier fault finding if problems occur.
Great video.
great vid, as always, thanks :)
Now this is a good video as it put to bed most of my worries concerning electrofrog turnouts. There is one thing that puzzles me though and that is the "earth" tag on the Seep point motor - where does it go and why? I`ll be using Seeps so I need to know this.
Consider it the neutral or negative if that helps.
that looks like 12 or 14 AWG wire, but i dont know the brittish rules for electrical just the US codes
I'd reckon it's 2.5mm
What tool do you use to snip the extended pin? Would be useful to see how you do this on the video as I find the extended pin drops out under tension, losing the washers and springs - very annoying after all the effort to solder and fit them under a baseboard. And how much of the pin do you leave showing? Too much and some trains catch it, too little and you risk losing a perfectly good point motor.
Shornford I use a mini drill with a cutting disk to cut the rod and leave about 1mm proud of the tie bar. It will be covered in the next video.
Take some sandpaper and clean the oxide off the wire before you attempt to solder. Flux is not sufficient. Also clean the soldering iron tip. Works better wnen you do.
Which "Household Wire" do you use 1.5, 2.5 or 6 mm ?
Looks like 2.5 1.5 and 6 aren't as common.
Your use of colour for the cabling makes me cry a little.... I'd need it to be a lot clearer, running an earth on black and splicing it into a blue... So much wrong with that :) Not in "it won't work" wrong way, just a "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?" wrong way.
i know what gauge wire that is, I believe it is 14 or 12 gauge. 14 based on the color standard we use here in the US for the outer insulation, 14 is usually white and 12 is yellow insulation "usually". 12 is also possible as you can order all sizes of wire in just about any color.
Hi Richard. Thank you for that I appreciate
Andrew Skilling
Is this a dcc layout? I'm just wondering because if there's a loco on each shunting line wouldn't they all move at once when you turn the knob?
What solder iron do u use make model volt ect
Would any solder work and do you solder the wire then attach to track/points.
How do you cut the bus wires and the splice/wire connectors how do they work install
Matthew Stamp Soldering iron is a maplin 50W one. Any solder will work. The stuff i'm using is very old and you can't get it anymore. I cut the wires with wire cutters and fit the splicers using some pliers.
Cheers for that, great work through. I am still undecided about the method of control for the points on the new layout, I want to control everything via DCC but the cost of getting the accessory decoders is a bit prohibited, but the thought of "control panels", CDU's, wiring etc for a separate manual control is very scary! I do like the idea of manual switching, it seems to be more as though you are actually running the layout. I assume that I could wire manual control and then at some future point make a few of the points DCC controlled for continuous running or route scheduling via the ECOS when I have the cash. I am most greatful for your videos, extreemly straighforward and plain speaking. Looking forward to the control panel making .. demystifying it all.
***** I prefer manual switching on the control board as it's more like running a real railway. If you rig up everything to dcc you'll have loads of point addresses to remember and spend a lot of time tapping away on the controller. I find a switch on a panel to be easier and faster. You don't need to worry about a CDU if you don't want one. The toggle switches prevent any issues.
For everyone complaining about wire colors, he's in britain, they use a different standard for wire colors over there. Though the soldering instead of crimping did seem very weird....
The standard for canceling is live is brown, blue is neutral and yellow green is earth.
The issue is that he hasn't differentiated the cables not the colours themselves. Using all blue droppers makes it hard to tell. The practice usually is red and black to make it easy at a glance.
Another great instalment mate, very very helpful indeed. Stupid question I know, but I guess you just cut off the excess upright length on the point motors? Jack
PeakeyFortySix Yep, just cut them off.