This just solidified how i'm going to do my turnouts on my next project layout. No LED's though mostly due to me wanting to keep my control panel layout VERY compact.
Excellent video, thank you so much for putting this together and for sharing! I really like how you included the latching relay with the LEDs, too. I don't know enough about electronics to have figured that one out but I understand enough to really appreciate what it does! Well done on the presentation, as always.
Hi and thanks for the comments. Yes, if you don't have some knowledge of electronics it can be difficult to understand exactly how it works, but you can see the end result. I put the LED part in there because I know if I didn't someone would ask! John
Thanks Ian, having all the turnout electronics inside the Kato point it does make it a lot simpler than Peco, etc. But I did enjoy the challenge of wiring up the 4 Peco points I have on one of my modules. John
Greetings to the Upside-down and hello John 👋 What a professional piece 👏👏👏👏 excellently explained and the diagrams are a work of art 🤩 Very best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️
I expanded on this idea, I went with a Toggle and a push button instead of a momentary toggle. I used the “other side” of the latching relay to have an amber indicator come on if I’ve flipped the toggle and not poked the button. To do so I fed constant positive and negative to each of the NO NC pins, and fed common to a rectifier made from 4 diodes. Along with a feed directly from the toggle output to the same rectifier. I like this because the Green LEDs always show the physical direction the turnout is thrown, but this way I can throw the toggle and “Prime” a button for a quick change, with the Amber to show its “Primed”
@Peepjouster27 Hi, it's great that you have come up with a mod that suits what you want to do and that others can use. I have shown just one method, and if others can modify and share their ideas, then thats a good thing for our hobby. Cheers John
i enjoy and learn a lot from your video, but if you could post a picture of the actual wiring would be helpful for me. a view of the under carriage of your board in the example using the latching relay. thank you
Thanks John for this video! It's great! However, have you happened to have used only one bi-color LED for this circuit. I've attempted to do so similar to your other video (with the pushbutton and on-off toggle) bridging the two switch leads. It works but as soon as the momentary switch completes on my toggle switch, in either direction, the light flicks on but then goes out. I guess this relates to the latching component which is missing and you've used in this video which must keep the LED lit. For my setup, I only require one red/green LED with the color indicating whether the switch is clear or diverted. Can you advise what I need to keep the LED solid as in this video? And also, the circuitry involved. Many thanks, Dave in NYC.
Hi Dave, I'm assuming that you want to use a bi-color (bipolar) LED that has only two legs To use a two pin bipolar LED you would need to utilize both sets of contacts on the FRT3-SL2 (or equivalent) latching relay. The rest of the circuit will be the same One leg of the bipolar LED would connect via a resistor to pin 4 of the relay The other leg of the bipolar LED would connect via a resistor to pin 13 of the relay You would then have the positive (+ red) of the power supply connected to pins 6 and 9 of the relay The negative (- black) of the power supply would connect to pins 8 and 11 of the relay So with the relay in the RESET position you would have one leg of the LED which is connected to pin 4 would get +ve voltage via pin 6 and the other leg of the LED which is connected to pin 13 would get a -ve negative voltage via pin 11 With the relay in the SET position now you will get a -ve voltage to the LED leg connected to pin 4 via pin 8 and a +ve voltage to the LED leg connected to pin 13 via pin 9 it will probably make more sense if you draw it out. John
@@wimbletrain Good morning John! Yes, that is correct -- a bipolar LED with two legs. Thanks much for taking the time to reply to my questions. I'm not an electronics wiz -- actually a neophyte, so I'm glad you provided the detailed instructions in your reply. A last question is what value diode which are soldered to the relay do I use? I'm planning n ordering the latching rely today and will attempt to get this working, but may get back to you should I have any questions along the way. Again, many, many thanks, Dave
@@wimbletrain Another, hopefully quick, question: I purchased a bunch of SPDT momentary, center off switches by Miniatronics and wondering if I can use those for my Kato switches? Wouldn't need any kind of indicator lights. Thanks John, Dave
Hi John. i seem to have a mental block regarding L.E.D.s and voltage etc which stops me from buying and trying them. how do you power and regulate the power to them in this example? Keep up the great work.
Hi Ed, so with the LED setup on the diagram near the LEDs there is a + and - symbol, these are connected to the 12V DC power supply. The +12V goes to a 680 ohm resistor then through the relay. From there it connects to the anode of the LED. The other side of the LED is then connected back to the the ground of the 12V power supply. The 680 ohm resistor is what limits the current through the LED to about 18mA (12V divided by 680 ohm, Ohms law). With LEDs I usually go for a current between 10mA to 20mA (0.01 to 0.02A). Regards John
thanks much for the video. I am wondering if using the momentary switch method here, can it be replaced with a single pushbutton somehow? I've been racking my brain trying to figure it out, but the momentary toggle switch is a good solution - I am trying to omit as many buttons/switches as possible from my panel.
Hi, if you were to use a single pushbutton then you would need some circuitry to send the pulse to the swich as well as then revserse the polarity so when you pressed it again the switch would operate to the other position. I am guessing this is the kind of thing you are talking about? John
Hi there, Excellent presentation to the minute detail. BTW, I am Mani from India. What is the alternative for FRT3-SL2 latching relay. Here in India, I could not find one. I am setting up N Scale model double oval with 5 turnouts. I did search for 16pin latching relay as well. Appreciate if you could provide an alternative. Thanks, Mani
Hi Mani, hard to easily find a direct equivalent easily. Best thing to try is download the datasheet for the FRT3-SL2 from the internet and then search for latching relays that are available for you locally. Compare the pinouts and see if there are any similar 12V relays available.
@player3prime Hi, unfortunately, no, because this would put a permanent 12 volts on the turnout, which could damage it. The Kato Turnout is operated by a short pulse of 12 volts, i.e., only on for a fraction of a second.
Great video, one question, what happens when the power is turned off, does the Latching relay stay "latched" keeping the LED and turnout in sync when you restart (power up) the layout
Hello, yes, the LED and the turnout stay in sync after power down and then power up. The latching relay will stay in the position it was before the power is turned off. Thanks for watching. John
Hi, I assume you are in the US? I'm not sure what electronic component suppliers you have there, but you may need to search for an equivalent latching relay. If you download the datasheet and compare, hopefully, you should find a similar one. Just drop me a comment if you find something and are not sure. I got mine locally here in Australia from an electronics shop.
@paulgarman1389 I got my relay from a shop called Jaycar. If you give me some names of electronic part places where you are, maybe I can take a look for you?
Hi John, I'm wondering if you or anyone else has had issues with these latching relays. Your wiring illustration could not have been simpler and I purchased the exact same relay's, momentary toggle switches and diodes. I followed your diagram to the letter and was able to get the turnouts to switch (I use Marklin c-track turnouts) and the bottom led to light but have not been able to get the top led to light up. This is the one connected to the top right pole (#9 I think it is). The relays came in a pack of 6 and I assumed it was a faulty relay but tried three of them and non corrected the issue. I also replaced the diodes. Still nothing. I may have to go back to your first video using both a toggle and momentary switch side by side. Has anyone else had any issues with this? Many thanks for your work on this!
Hi, don't give up just yet we will try and fix it! I am assuming that the LED that does work does go on and off when you switch the turnout? Can you hear the relay operating? I would check (if you haven't already done so) that the LED not lighting up is connected the right way around, they should both have their shorter leg connected to the negative side of your 12V power supply. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks for the response John. Yes the LED that is connected to the bottom pole (#13) does go on and off when I switch the turnout. Both LED's are connected to a negative terminal. The positive end of the bottom LED is connected to the bottom pole as mentioned and the top positive end of the top LED is connected to pole #9. Pole #11...or the middle pole on the right side...is also connected to a positive terminal. I'd be much happier if neither LED worked! But right now it's only the top one not working. I can short out that LED so that it goes on and off with the bottom one...so I know it's working. Both diodes are connected the way you illustrated...with arrow pointing toward the relay. Those relays aren't very expensive...I may have received a bad batch....so I may just order another 6 and see if that solves it. Thanks again for the time!
@@PeterMartinPhoto Ok I've watched my video back and can see that I may have caused some confusion with my diagrams. The resistor should be connected to pin 4 of the relay and the leds to pins 6 and 8. Let me know how you go checking that. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks John! Currently out of the country for another few weeks but will try this as soon as I get back home! Although your original was as clear as a mountain stream...I look forward to trying this! Thanks for taking the time.
Since my electronic skills are woefully lacking, I would just like to see someone bring something like this to market for mounting on my control panel.
Yes, it would be nice, I guess an option is the Kato Turnout Control switch, part number 24-840, if you are looking for something that is plug and play.
Do you have an actual pick of your wiring ? I have the exact same relay, switch and leds and it is wired exactly as it shows and nothing happens on the relay. The switch switches but no leds lights. A pic would help me tons . I have the relay plug soldered to a breadboard so the relay pins don't break. Any help would be great! Thanks for making the great vids!
Hi, I was thinking of doing a video showing the wiring and running through it but can I ask you to check something. In my video I show the relay pinouts from the bottom of the relay. So if you are looking at the top of the relay (with the writing right side up) pin 1 is on the bottom left, pin 8 bottom right. Pin 16 is top left and pin 9 top right. The LEDs the longer lead is the positive and the shorter lead the negative. Let me know how you go. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks! I do have the wiring as described and I have the anode and cathode of the LED wired properly as well (Anode + / Cathode -). Any other suggestions?...I just think I am missing something simple. Appreciate all the info!
@@wimbletrain Alright after a bit more tinkering I have 1 led working but the other does nothing. Same as gentleman stated below. I have tried multiple relays, diodes and resistors. When I switch the direction to make the led light the voltage after the resistor is 2V. When I switch it the other way it goes back to 12. Is this correct? Seems like it should always read 2V after the resistor no matter what.
@@plus1miniatures344 it should be 2V no matter which LED is lit. There must be some connection issue with the LED that doesn't light up. Can you hear the relay operating when you fl1ick the momentary toggle?
Hi, I got my latching relay from a local electronics store here in Australia, so I don't have a purchase link. You can search '12v pcb latching relay'. When you find something, then you can look at its datasheet to make sure it has the same pinouts. One I did see online, which looks the same, is a HFD2/012-S-L2 or HFD2/012-M-L2 The L2 is important at the end as it has separate set/reset connections and the 12 is 12v coil.
Hi Everybody, I need assistance, the video shows the resistor connecting a plus sign & the two leds connected to a minus sign my question is “ Both are not showing as to what they connect to” so where do they connect, appreciate an explanation & thanks
This just solidified how i'm going to do my turnouts on my next project layout. No LED's though mostly due to me wanting to keep my control panel layout VERY compact.
Hi Shane, Thanks for watching. That's just it you watch videos, get ideas, and adapt what you see to your own layout. All the best. John
A brilliant explanation on how all this works
Thankyou very much Chris. Cheers for now. John
Excellent and professional video, John! Nicely and clearly explained and quite interesting. Thanks for the information!
Hi Anthony, thanks for the words of encouragement! All the best from Oz.
Excellent video, thank you so much for putting this together and for sharing! I really like how you included the latching relay with the LEDs, too. I don't know enough about electronics to have figured that one out but I understand enough to really appreciate what it does! Well done on the presentation, as always.
Hi and thanks for the comments. Yes, if you don't have some knowledge of electronics it can be difficult to understand exactly how it works, but you can see the end result. I put the LED part in there because I know if I didn't someone would ask! John
Hi John! This was a great presentation and very well explained! Enjoyed watching it even though I'll be doing things differently! All the best, Ian.
Thanks Ian, having all the turnout electronics inside the Kato point it does make it a lot simpler than Peco, etc. But I did enjoy the challenge of wiring up the 4 Peco points I have on one of my modules. John
Greetings to the Upside-down and hello John 👋 What a professional piece 👏👏👏👏 excellently explained and the diagrams are a work of art 🤩 Very best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️
Hello Paul, yes those diagrams did go through a few versions before I got it right (I think!) Thanks for your kind comment and all the best 🦘🦘
I expanded on this idea, I went with a Toggle and a push button instead of a momentary toggle. I used the “other side” of the latching relay to have an amber indicator come on if I’ve flipped the toggle and not poked the button.
To do so I fed constant positive and negative to each of the NO NC pins, and fed common to a rectifier made from 4 diodes. Along with a feed directly from the toggle output to the same rectifier.
I like this because the Green LEDs always show the physical direction the turnout is thrown, but this way I can throw the toggle and “Prime” a button for a quick change, with the Amber to show its “Primed”
@Peepjouster27 Hi, it's great that you have come up with a mod that suits what you want to do and that others can use. I have shown just one method, and if others can modify and share their ideas, then thats a good thing for our hobby. Cheers John
@@wimbletrain agreed! This video was the inspiration, and I wanted to get the idea “out there”
Another really helpful video - thanks again for sharing; will try to replicate!
Thanks Alex!
i enjoy and learn a lot from your video, but if you could post a picture of the actual wiring would be helpful for me. a view of the under carriage of your board in the example using the latching relay.
thank you
Hi, I did a walk through video th-cam.com/video/F3PSmz9VPhE/w-d-xo.html, which might help. John
Nice info, seems to work really nice!
Cheers Dave! 👍
Thanks John for this video! It's great! However, have you happened to have used only one bi-color LED for this circuit. I've attempted to do so similar to your other video (with the pushbutton and on-off toggle) bridging the two switch leads. It works but as soon as the momentary switch completes on my toggle switch, in either direction, the light flicks on but then goes out. I guess this relates to the latching component which is missing and you've used in this video which must keep the LED lit. For my setup, I only require one red/green LED with the color indicating whether the switch is clear or diverted. Can you advise what I need to keep the LED solid as in this video? And also, the circuitry involved. Many thanks, Dave in NYC.
Hi Dave,
I'm assuming that you want to use a bi-color (bipolar) LED that has only two legs
To use a two pin bipolar LED you would need to utilize both sets of contacts on the FRT3-SL2 (or equivalent) latching relay. The rest of the circuit will be the same
One leg of the bipolar LED would connect via a resistor to pin 4 of the relay
The other leg of the bipolar LED would connect via a resistor to pin 13 of the relay
You would then have the positive (+ red) of the power supply connected to pins 6 and 9 of the relay
The negative (- black) of the power supply would connect to pins 8 and 11 of the relay
So with the relay in the RESET position you would have one leg of the LED which is connected to pin 4 would get +ve voltage via pin 6 and the other leg of the LED which is connected to pin 13 would get a -ve negative voltage via pin 11
With the relay in the SET position now you will get a -ve voltage to the LED leg connected to pin 4 via pin 8 and a +ve voltage to the LED leg connected to pin 13 via pin 9
it will probably make more sense if you draw it out. John
@@wimbletrain Good morning John! Yes, that is correct -- a bipolar LED with two legs. Thanks much for taking the time to reply to my questions. I'm not an electronics wiz -- actually a neophyte, so I'm glad you provided the detailed instructions in your reply. A last question is what value diode which are soldered to the relay do I use? I'm planning n ordering the latching rely today and will attempt to get this working, but may get back to you should I have any questions along the way. Again, many, many thanks, Dave
@@wimbletrain Another, hopefully quick, question: I purchased a bunch of SPDT momentary, center off switches by Miniatronics and wondering if I can use those for my Kato switches? Wouldn't need any kind of indicator lights. Thanks John, Dave
@@davidzimmerman3238 Hi Dave, you need to use DPDT to reverse the voltage, you can't really do it with a SPDT
@@wimbletrain Thanks for taking the time to reply John. Off to Amazon to make a purchase :-)
tremendous video John. i almost feel like i can do that :)
🤣 Thanks John!
thanks so much you helped alot
Thanks William, glad you found it helpful. John
Hi John. i seem to have a mental block regarding L.E.D.s and voltage etc which stops me from buying and trying them. how do you power and regulate the power to them in this example? Keep up the great work.
Hi Ed, so with the LED setup on the diagram near the LEDs there is a + and - symbol, these are connected to the 12V DC power supply. The +12V goes to a 680 ohm resistor then through the relay. From there it connects to the anode of the LED. The other side of the LED is then connected back to the the ground of the 12V power supply. The 680 ohm resistor is what limits the current through the LED to about 18mA (12V divided by 680 ohm, Ohms law). With LEDs I usually go for a current between 10mA to 20mA (0.01 to 0.02A). Regards John
thank you
You're welcome
thanks much for the video. I am wondering if using the momentary switch method here, can it be replaced with a single pushbutton somehow? I've been racking my brain trying to figure it out, but the momentary toggle switch is a good solution - I am trying to omit as many buttons/switches as possible from my panel.
Hi, if you were to use a single pushbutton then you would need some circuitry to send the pulse to the swich as well as then revserse the polarity so when you pressed it again the switch would operate to the other position. I am guessing this is the kind of thing you are talking about? John
@@wimbletrain Hi there, yep. that's exactly what I am thinking about. I'm digging into what logic controller I am needing to do this.
Hi there, Excellent presentation to the minute detail. BTW, I am Mani from India.
What is the alternative for FRT3-SL2 latching relay. Here in India, I could not find one.
I am setting up N Scale model double oval with 5 turnouts. I did search for 16pin latching relay as well. Appreciate if you could provide an alternative.
Thanks, Mani
Hi Mani, hard to easily find a direct equivalent easily. Best thing to try is download the datasheet for the FRT3-SL2 from the internet and then search for latching relays that are available for you locally. Compare the pinouts and see if there are any similar 12V relays available.
I like your design. Where did you get the relays?
Hi Tim and thanks. I got the relay from Jaycar here in Australia. John
Is it possible to see the actual wiring?
@@timcontreras5208 Hi Tim, the actual wiring I did on the demo is not all that neat, don't think it would help, it might just look confusing!
could you just use the regular switch from the other video without the pushbutton, so the LED installation is easier or am I missing something?
@player3prime Hi, unfortunately, no, because this would put a permanent 12 volts on the turnout, which could damage it. The Kato Turnout is operated by a short pulse of 12 volts, i.e., only on for a fraction of a second.
Great video, one question, what happens when the power is turned off, does the Latching relay stay "latched" keeping the LED and turnout in sync when you restart (power up) the layout
Hello, yes, the LED and the turnout stay in sync after power down and then power up. The latching relay will stay in the position it was before the power is turned off. Thanks for watching. John
I can,t find that relay. Where can i purchase them? Thank you and great videos!
Hi, I assume you are in the US? I'm not sure what electronic component suppliers you have there, but you may need to search for an equivalent latching relay. If you download the datasheet and compare, hopefully, you should find a similar one. Just drop me a comment if you find something and are not sure. I got mine locally here in Australia from an electronics shop.
@@wimbletrain thank you for your input. I enjoy your videos.
Is there a web site our of Australia that I can order those relays from?
@paulgarman1389 I got my relay from a shop called Jaycar. If you give me some names of electronic part places where you are, maybe I can take a look for you?
Hi John, I'm wondering if you or anyone else has had issues with these latching relays. Your wiring illustration could not have been simpler and I purchased the exact same relay's, momentary toggle switches and diodes. I followed your diagram to the letter and was able to get the turnouts to switch (I use Marklin c-track turnouts) and the bottom led to light but have not been able to get the top led to light up. This is the one connected to the top right pole (#9 I think it is). The relays came in a pack of 6 and I assumed it was a faulty relay but tried three of them and non corrected the issue. I also replaced the diodes. Still nothing. I may have to go back to your first video using both a toggle and momentary switch side by side. Has anyone else had any issues with this?
Many thanks for your work on this!
Hi, don't give up just yet we will try and fix it! I am assuming that the LED that does work does go on and off when you switch the turnout? Can you hear the relay operating? I would check (if you haven't already done so) that the LED not lighting up is connected the right way around, they should both have their shorter leg connected to the negative side of your 12V power supply. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks for the response John. Yes the LED that is connected to the bottom pole (#13) does go on and off when I switch the turnout. Both LED's are connected to a negative terminal. The positive end of the bottom LED is connected to the bottom pole as mentioned and the top positive end of the top LED is connected to pole #9. Pole #11...or the middle pole on the right side...is also connected to a positive terminal. I'd be much happier if neither LED worked! But right now it's only the top one not working. I can short out that LED so that it goes on and off with the bottom one...so I know it's working. Both diodes are connected the way you illustrated...with arrow pointing toward the relay. Those relays aren't very expensive...I may have received a bad batch....so I may just order another 6 and see if that solves it. Thanks again for the time!
@@PeterMartinPhoto Hi, another viewer has had issues as well so I'm going to do a video showing my wiring and try and run through the connections.
@@PeterMartinPhoto Ok I've watched my video back and can see that I may have caused some confusion with my diagrams. The resistor should be connected to pin 4 of the relay and the leds to pins 6 and 8. Let me know how you go checking that. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks John! Currently out of the country for another few weeks but will try this as soon as I get back home! Although your original was as clear as a mountain stream...I look forward to trying this! Thanks for taking the time.
Since my electronic skills are woefully lacking, I would just like to see someone bring something like this to market for mounting on my control panel.
Yes, it would be nice, I guess an option is the Kato Turnout Control switch, part number 24-840, if you are looking for something that is plug and play.
Do you have an actual pick of your wiring ? I have the exact same relay, switch and leds and it is wired exactly as it shows and nothing happens on the relay. The switch switches but no leds lights. A pic would help me tons . I have the relay plug soldered to a breadboard so the relay pins don't break. Any help would be great! Thanks for making the great vids!
Hi, I was thinking of doing a video showing the wiring and running through it but can I ask you to check something. In my video I show the relay pinouts from the bottom of the relay. So if you are looking at the top of the relay (with the writing right side up) pin 1 is on the bottom left, pin 8 bottom right. Pin 16 is top left and pin 9 top right. The LEDs the longer lead is the positive and the shorter lead the negative. Let me know how you go. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks! I do have the wiring as described and I have the anode and cathode of the LED wired properly as well (Anode + / Cathode -). Any other suggestions?...I just think I am missing something simple. Appreciate all the info!
@@plus1miniatures344 I can do a video and show my wiring (it's a bit messy) and hopefully it will help.
@@wimbletrain Alright after a bit more tinkering I have 1 led working but the other does nothing. Same as gentleman stated below. I have tried multiple relays, diodes and resistors. When I switch the direction to make the led light the voltage after the resistor is 2V. When I switch it the other way it goes back to 12. Is this correct? Seems like it should always read 2V after the resistor no matter what.
@@plus1miniatures344 it should be 2V no matter which LED is lit. There must be some connection issue with the LED that doesn't light up. Can you hear the relay operating when you fl1ick the momentary toggle?
Can you provide a purchase link on the relay? I looked on Amazon but couldn’t find the exact one you were using?
Hi, I got my latching relay from a local electronics store here in Australia, so I don't have a purchase link. You can search '12v pcb latching relay'. When you find something, then you can look at its datasheet to make sure it has the same pinouts. One I did see online, which looks the same, is a HFD2/012-S-L2 or HFD2/012-M-L2 The L2 is important at the end as it has separate set/reset connections and the 12 is 12v coil.
Hi Everybody, I need assistance, the video shows the resistor connecting a plus sign & the two leds connected to a minus sign my question is “ Both are not showing as to what they connect to” so where do they connect, appreciate an explanation & thanks
Hi Chris, the plus and minus connections you mention go to the 12V DC power supply. John
Can this be used on a DCC layout?
Hi Wes, yes it can, you just need to run a separate 12V DC power supply to operate the turnouts.
How many amp 12v power supply would be required for 8 Kato switches?
As you probably won't be operating all of the switches at once a 2 amp would be fine.
Zzzzzzzzzz.....
LOL, sorry I put you to sleep!