KPop stans: I’m holding my faves accountable? Person: So, you stopped buying their albums and merch? KS: No. P: Oh! So, you don’t stream their music or watch their music videos? KS: No. P: You unfollowed them on social media? KS: No. P: Then what did you do? KS: I RETWEETED A POST THAT SAYS #___DoBetter 😌 Keep reading for your weekly installment of Danny writing way more than is necessary but he has too many thoughts and cannot figure out how to condense them lol
I’ve been saying this for years (and I’m sounding like a broken record): Companies talk wit money, not with hashtags. I’m so impressed with Orbitz. I didn’t stan Loona at first (this was like 2019) because of the reputation this fandom had. The last thing I wanted to do was support a group when their fandom was commenting “Maybe they’d still be alive if they had stanned Loona” under posts to mourn those that were gone. But after seeing them actually doing something this commendable, I developed a lot of respect for the fandom. Neverland, you’re not going to like hearing this, but giving (G)I-DLE their biggest era after Soojin was kicked out just proved to Cube that they made the financially correct choice. This should be a lesson to all fandoms. Also, can we talk about how fans don’t actually want their faves to be accountable? Only the idols that they hate. Remember the Chaeyoung situation from the beginning of the year? While most people I interacted with were pretty level headed about the whole thing, nobody was more adamant about the woman getting cancelled than Blinks. Same could be said about the recent issue with Bang Chan. Stays are still defending the man like his life depends on it while other 4th gen stans (both boy and girl groups) were acting like he should retire. It’s rare to find an idol doing something wrong and their own fans being the ones holding them accountable. Onto the word accountability: It means nothing. James Charles proved that. How are you going to make half of a dozen 45+ minute videos of yourself talking to the camera, saying you’re “holding yourself accountable” and then being caught less than a month later still exchanging explicit photos with minors? Nobody knows what that means apparently. Accountability is having tangible repercussions to your actions. It’s not having a 2 day hate train on Twitter that’ll fizzle out once bored stans find the next thing to preoccupy themselves with. Which brings me to my 6 month rule. I believe that people can change and should be given the opportunity to change. That doesn’t happen overnight. So, I figured 6 months should be enough. After that, I’ll let a situation go as long as the person isn’t a repeat offender. Chaeyoung’s 6 month period ends after this week. I’ve already forgiven Giselle. But Bang Chan? He continues to conduct himself recklessly on live streams and during fan meetings and anywhere that involves him interacting with Stays. It’s going to be a long time before I can fully forgive him for inadvertently causing other idols to receive hate because he can’t gauge what’s an appropriate way to talk to his fans. But I have faith that he’ll get there. And when he does, I’lo be able to let him move on from this situation too. But yeah, people need to stop bringing up issues from 1+ years ago. Obviously, there are exceptions. If an idol becomes convicted for something, then that’s going to take a much longer time to get over (cough cough Kris). Ultimately, accountability should be proportionate to the transgression committed. And it should be pursued with the objective of the person being held accountable to recognize 1. What they did wrong 2. Why it was wrong 3. How to correct their mentality/actions as to not be a repeat offender in the future. People make mistakes. That’s unfortunately the best way that we learn. And all mistakes have consequences. But the consequences should never outweigh what was done. KPop stans really need to understand what accountability is and how to go about enforcing it. You saying that you’re holding your faves accountable by tweeting out your disappointments while still buying all 10,000 copies of their latest album and streaming their music 24/7 isn’t going to send the message that they did something wrong. Anyways, that’s enough out of me. Y’all know the drill! Thank you if you’ve read this far! Now please go drink some water because we don’t mess with dehydration here 💙
I dunno why but there is never a dull moment when I see your comments. They are always well structured with good points and sometimes funny and sarcastic. I have a huge respect for you keep up
side note - it's crazy to me that orbits, one of the most CHAOTIC random fandom I have ever seen, managed to band together to create the MOST successful boycott in kpop history (correct me if you think I'm wrong!). in one way or another, loona has left multiple marks on the kpop industry, from their predebut project, to the beauty of large and complicated female choreos, to literally influencing laws and legal systems, which we've seen impact positively e.g. omega x. love or hate loona or our fandom, but we have done a lot more than so many fandoms and groups out there. thank you Cheryl, for your appreciation of orbits in this scenario.
to be fair, i find it hilarious. one thing that orbits have always had going for them is that they're dedicated to the girls, and the girls only. yes, the lore and the music is great, but orbits have been the ones promoting loona since predebut, they're one of the most dedicated fanbases out there. so as surprising as it is, i think it makes sense that these insane people were the only ones who managed to make some change for once.
girl, when i saw the pre-sales for that foolish comeback bbc tried to do in comparison to their flip that presales and stuff before, my jaw dropped 😭 we really did that!
@@momomomo__ literally, i was echoing “stan loona!” before i rlly got into kpop and 3 years before i even became a real orbit. Orbits are very dedicated.
I think one HUGE reason that the Loona boycott succeeded was that the members, especially HyunJin, communicated their support for the boycott. Every time a fan whined about "if I don't buy their album it will hurt the girls" or "if I don't buy the album the girls will be sad", it was simple to just point to HyunJin's social media posts. HyunJin never said a word against BlockBerry (although she definitely rode the line closely - but what was BlockBerry going to do, fire her?) but she used comments and emoji that fans easily understood to know that the members were ABSOLUTELY on board with the boycott. The day the album was "postponed" (cancelled) HyunJin posted a smiling emoji and said "Today is a good day" - of course everyone knew what she was referring to but the company couldn't punish her because all she did was say something that you'd expect an idol to say. Orbits can definitely take immense pride in their part in getting Loona free of BlockBerry Creative, even if the price tag was perhaps never getting OT12 content again. HyunJin played a critical role in being the leader of the resistance and liaison of the group to the fans - so critical in fact that it is easy to see how the whole boycott could have easily failed had the fans not known that the members of Loona supported them.
i hate the fact that nobody holds MHJ accountable properly... I try, any NJ content are remixes for Hype Boy Attention and OMGanything else will not be watched esp legally
@@ChloeBx honestly I've completely stopped listening to their music. I'm not trying to sabotage them or boycott them, I'm smart enough to know it won't work, it's just for myself, I cannot be at peace with myself while I listen to a group that is being produced by somebody who takes very serious issues and topics as an aesthetic
@@ChloeBxMin Heejin is up there with YG as one of the shadiest people in the industry. People only give her the benefit of the doubt because she's a woman
@@Blodhelm and a Chuu solo, plus Yves writing music/possibly being solo? Blockberry got their just desserts while we're having REAL dessert with our lovelies 🌜
i seriously cannot believe how well the loona boycott worked, the fact that there sales dropped from thousands of preorders to LESS THAN A THOUSAND is absolutely insane. i didn’t expect one of the *most* chaotic fandoms to be able to pull off the best k-pop boycott ever, and probably will be ever considering how things just won’t change.
I just stop streaming and not buy their album. Also, submit a petition. It is quite easy for me. But some orbits' efforts are extensive. They reach out to kpop stores to explain the situation and persuade the stores to boycott as well. They keep on voicing out in the social media to remind us to boycott. Some also in contact with the girls' lawyer and advocate to other orbits to submit petitions with our real identity (but only give half censored emails&phone numbers). I am proud of orbits!
@@FrostyPlayzYT oh I wasn't upset or anything I just wanted people to know how bad it can get for the company if fans actually decided to band together in support of the artist(s)
I also wanted to point out, for Orbits, with LOONA using all messaging apps, there were a few times where one of the members said something ignorant or questionable, and Orbits were quick to call that out, immediately messaged them, didn't take any bullshit or made excuses for them. We've always gotten sincere apologies and a changed behavior from the girls thanks to that. I appreciate it.
no because i've never seen a boycott work so well before orbits actually did through it on the international side. as an orbit myself, it felt like everyone was actually on the same page. the boycott is still going on too, with people still refusing to stream what bbc still owns on their official platforms and made sure everyone knew what was going on.
I am not orbit but got cueious because a couple of their songs in queendom but because the boycot I have no idea were to listen. 😢 Orbits were never alone in this.
I think Orbits realized through the debut era that we’re more powerful than we think when we work together. I know other fandoms saw it as obnoxious but we genuinely were so excited about the group, we just wanted to see them succeed. So I think it was easier for us to reverse course bc we still all had the same goal - the members’ success. I’m so grateful to Orbits and non-Loona fans who supported the cause. It helped ease the blow of losing OT12. 🌙
The Loona situation worked because there was one common enemy and everyone agreed that they didn't want the group to be mistreated. This is completely different when everyone has different opinions and motives like when an idol does something that only offends some people. Some may be angry at that one idol, but wouldn't boycott because they don't want to hurt the whole group. Also, a lot of those people who claim to be offended are solo stans or antis who take advantage of the situation to hate on an idol they don't like.
I'll second that. I don't know every single detail but one thing remained true - Blockberry being incompetent. So once we finally had something tangible to show BC was EVEN WORSE in actuality, we got on board to get them out and supported them.
Good point. For this reason tho, I think that’s why idols and companies _should_ be scared to mess up, because it will cause the entire group to suffer, not just an individual. (And when I say mess up, I mean actually like MESS UP, not something dumb like a dating scandal)
Holding their idols accountable rarely seems to work for international stans. The only country that actually seems to do this right is Chinese K-pop stans. The amount of times K-pop company's have relented and appeased the Chinese market is crazy.
Ever wondered why so many Kpop groups make Japanese/Chinese versions of their songs? That’s because Kpop is geared mainly towards Korean fans, but also Chinese and Japanese fans as well. And scandals that anger those fans are bad for companies because of the major political tensions between those countries. That’s why the Tzuyu “scandal” was so big that she had to apologise publicly. A kpop group can survive without popularity from the international market (minus those 2 countries). As long as they are popular or have some form of a fan base in Korea and/or China/Japan, it’s okay. But if they have NO Korean fans? Or if they are deemed as irredeemable in the eyes of China/Japan? They’re done. That’s why 50/50 will probably unfortunately never be able to achieve popularity again. In the eyes of the Korean public, they are betrayers to their company and have ruined their images. They also never got the opportunity to build themselves up in Japan/China and Korea. That’s also why TWICE is one of the most successful kpop ggs. Yes, they’re popular internationally, but JYP spent time curating their images in Korea/China/Japan, before focusing on their international traction. It also helps that they have one Chinese/Taiwanese member as well as 3 Japanese members. K-netz, C-netz, and J-netz will ALWAYS take priority over international fans. Because at the end of the day, K-pop = Korean pop. Music for Koreans. And China and Japan are important politically to Korea. It’s sad, but it is what it is. (Sorry for typing a whole essay in your comments lol).
Not to mention, from what i remember, isn't China cancel culture was something that you can't mess around with? If you are a problematic ( or basically, had a criminal record ) person, you can get blacklisted from the industy itself. Kris Wu is one of the popular cases, and that man truly deserves to get jailed. ーedited, and i hope no one misunderstood since english isn't my first language.
The biggest problem that I have rn with the industry is their NEED to debut minors. It's fcking weird and awful to see those kids being mistreated and crushed by public and industry. kpop stans should start boycotting ALL the companies to make illegal to debut minors. Period.
It’s not a need it’s always been in the system…why would they stop doing it when it’s worked for generations and you guys don’t feel bad for listening to idols who started as minors…
@@venusianss “it’s always been done this way and it worked” how do you know that? oh, the idol is currently alive and has no public history of being sa? is that really where the bar is? people literally sexualize underage idols every single day, male or female, and with how deepfakes and stuff are going, are basically creating CP of these idols. and the companies are feeding into it by giving the idols questionable concepts or outfits. if you look at an example like taemin, who is SO outwardly open about debuting too young alongside his members, then no, it doesn’t work and has never worked. this is a larger problem within kpop of sexualization and bullying of idols, but minors are NOT the people to be handling it. not even taking into consideration the “darker side of kpop” that goes into it such as possible SA or SH that happens within companies, forced plastic surgeries, extreme diets, and abuse. this shouldn’t happen to any idol, i agree, but at the very least literal children should not be on camera because they are not mature yet to handle all of these things. idk why y’all fight tooth and nail to defend the debuting of minors when it literally does NO harm at all for people to just debut them when they’re a little older. look at sm in recent years, they haven’t debuted a single minor since nct dream and things are going well for them. idk what difference it makes and why this is y’all’s ONLY defence is crazy to me. like why???
@@venusianss "its always been in the system" doesn't mean we don't need change. BoA, debuted 13, said she regrets debuting so young. The Moon siblings - Sua said that even thought she loved her brother, they didn't spend much time during their childhood because they were both training. It's ruining these people's childhoods, if not more.
@@nimitsu_ read I was being rhetorical. you guys have contributed to the system and still listen to these artists. These kids aren’t forced to join the Industry they just do.
The Orbit boycott was very successful, but when it was first implemented and everything was still "sources and insiders said..." the boycott had it's detractors as well. There were many people who said that we didn't know if the girls wanted this and that this would hurt them, to which most responded that nothing was going to hurt them Blockberry was at that moment. I think this demonstrates how much a lot of kpop fans are so focused on the immediate effects as opposed to the long term. The members has repeatedly thanked their fans for sticking up for them and how the boycott gave them strength during their lawsuits, the long term gains far outweighed any possible hurt feelings at the time.
Idols being held "accountable" for dating was and still is one of the most absurd and vile things any so called "stan" should be ashamed of doing. Two consensual adults falling in love for their own happiness is nobody else's business. It's perfectly legal and more importantly, it's human. Anyone who crusade over an idol's personal love interest has never supported this idol for their talent and accomplishment, but rather their own perverted parasocial fantasy.
For real some of these stans need to grow up and realize that their favorite idols can have a love life 😭 I always found it pretty weird when stans would get upset or mad over idols dating like it's a new concept that nobody's ever heard of. As long as the relationship isn't abusive, has both people to be of age, and both people are happy then I don't really see a problem.
Nothing is quite like K-pop with its hive mentality when It comes to scandals. If an idol says or does something I don’t like I just stop consuming their content. That simple. Heck even if a groups music starts to go in a direction I don’t vibe with I’m out. I don’t owe them anything, I’m in control of my own interests! I don’t usually tell people, it’s my business. Great vid btw ❤
Same. There are quite a few groups I've stopped consuming content from, because they kept repeating their mistakes. Western artists too actually. The dependency some fans seem to have on their faves is scary....although I say this as someone who is sure that my favorite group won't repeat their mistakes.
People treat the term "holding them accountable" as a license to freely bully. That's all it is actually accomplishing as opposed to what it is supposed to be.
as an orbit, i’m super proud of us because we seriously just stood up and and understood exactly what we needed to do, despite the fact that we all love loona and their music, we resisted the temptation. i definitely wish that other fans could do the same but, k-pop stan’s aren’t at that level just yet
11:26 YES mainland and diaspora are usually reacting differently bc diaspora might get bullied/ostracised due to being a minority (cornrows/braids, being a certain religion etc) while it is not an issue in the mainland and creates division between them! This is one of the most important points in this video
This is why Qipao “My culture is not a prom costume” incident is non-existent in mainland China/Taiwan/Asian Chinese diaspora compared to western Chinese diaspora.
honestly me myself as an orbit was also that i can boycott all of their music but in the end it works well for the girls and i'm happy that they can still perform and be idols
I want a fandom as dedicated as orbits if i ever get into music or something. Seriously-the only fans that 100% have the celebrities’ back, without much of the weird stalking or sexualization that a lot of other big fandoms have.
SO REALLLL. especially the part about not allowing idols to actually grow and move on. so many people dont even care about the scandal either, they just use it as a tool in fan wars
your point on how accountability should be a full cycle immediately reminded me of wendy. her scandal happened in 2018 but she is still one of the most hated kpop idols from what ive seen. the fact that she receives so much hate even though she has not done anything problematic for years now really shows how many kpop stans who ‘hold idols accountable’ honestly just want an excuse for bullying in my opinion
This isn't exactly the same as the topic being discussed, but this can be said about music quality. I have noticed, especially with big fandoms that fans will complain about a groups' music quality going down but will support the comeback just so their favs can have the highest sales or the number 1 spot. I know that music is subjective, but from my personal experience i have seen large group of fans mass stream music and then when the comeback period is over they start complaining and saying that the music wasn't good, and hope for a better comeback. And I just look at these comments in shock, like do you expect the company to create better songs, concepts, stages when they realise that fans will eat up anything even when it's mediocre. I remember seeing this tweet saying that 'now that the group are not promoting anymore, the comeback was crap and I only defended it for the boys'. And the tweet had thousands of likes and people agreeing. I can't stream music I don't like, even if it's from my ult group.
this is exactly the problem and unfortunately, the habit that big company stans have of supporting shitty comebacks trickles down to smaller groups, cause when the management of smaller companies see a bigger group succeeding with a certain concept, they'll copy it assuming their nugu groups will get a hit, only for them flop and waste their little funds. in reality, the concept was horrible and it was only successful cause a big group released it and big 4 stans will eat up anything
It's a huge rusk to do that bc one single failed era can tank a group forever in an industry like kpop, very fickle. But honeslty, idc about people who go around calling ppl who don't stream 24/7 "fake fans"!, none of these ppl pay my bills. If I don't like the music, then I won't hear it and idc if it's from my faves. Next era hopefully it's better. Move along.
Dragon Ball Z Reference: Kpop Companies see Knetz as Majin Buu, they got a whole lot of bark, and a whole lot of bite to match. International fans are like Raditz, they got a whole lot of bark, and virtually no bite to back that up.
At this point im not ignoring nwjns existence because of their age, because thats a way bigger issue, but because i hate mhj and i refuse to support her
This is one of the reasons why I just gave up on trying to hold idols or groups accountable because 1. it's tiring and it's taking time away from what I could be doing for fun things 2. people get up and arms that we don't agree on the same things even if we are from the same culture and don't respect each other opinions 3. rarely do our "cries" be heard from the international side (I have only seen 2 of my ult groups in the last few years actually take action when they did culture appropriation and change it for the future) The accountability that most stans want isn't going to happen. Yes, there is a lot of international fans now, but we don't have the same power as others who actually live in Korea. We have to be strategic in order to actually see change happen and it has happened before when companies actually listen to their fans (typically smaller companies), but it's not a common occurrence. As a biracial black woman, I have just given up on trying to be moral police in this community cause I just don't want to spend my time or energy on these things cause I rarely see it happen and when I have, I get backlash from it that I can't be offended or I'm not offended enough. There's rarely any mutual respect when it comes to these things.
There is literally no lie in this video!!!! K-pop Stan “accountability” is actually just “lets send hate and d3@th thr3ats to this idol till someone does something worse, then we can go hope on another bandwagon.” I can’t tell you how many times people respond to controversial situations with pure hate and disrespect before anyone even gets to share the FULL story. K-pop Stan’s want to act like the hero’s of the story EVERY SINGLE TIME something happens. But at the same time, they lack the critical thinking skills necessary to actually understand the situation. You can’t save someone from something _if you don’t really know who needs to be saved._ And you can’t save them unless you know the most effective way to do so. Sending hate and threats IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO GET ACCOUNTABILITY and it will never be. Plus, no one on the internet ever knows how to MOVE ON. Hell, if an idol at the age of 19 or 20 said something mean to someone at the age of *3* I can bet you SOMEONE will say they “deserve to be held accountable for their actions” like honey stfu. There is a difference between holding someone accountable for their actions, and making a situation that has ALREADY BEEN DELT WITH _YEARS BEFORE_ worse than it needs to be. K-pop Stan’s refuse to look in the present time. They are sooo hyper focused on the past of an idols life that even the smallest things that they might’ve done YEARS ago get brought up and used against them, even if they’ve ALREADY paid for their bad choices back then. It’s ridiculous that people actually think they’ll get their accountability from these methods and it’s about time Fans woke up and realized that they’re plain wrong.
I enjoyed this video so much , you really hit the nail on the hammer . International fans have a lot to work on if they want companies to even bat an eye in their direction. Again you ate , another great video 💙💙.
I completely agree with your point on moving on. The worst part of them not moving on is that they act like they moved on. 'No one is talking is chaeyoung wearing #that shirt', like no, a lot of people are still talking about it. Cheyoung can't do anything and neither can ONCES without people in the quotes bringing it up. It irks me so much.
Fr I don’t support chae anymore do to that but the way people treat her for is it is disgusting she can’t do anything without some being it up she could post a pic and something sad and people will being it up like just ignore her and withdraw ur support for her and not posting a hate comment
this is exactly how i feel about minors debuting in the industry. there is so much noise from i-kpop stans about how minors shouldn't debut in an industry like kpop and how minors shouldn't even be in it at all, and yet be the same people to continue to support these groups with minors in it, stream their music, and buy their albums. you say you don't agree with minors debuting, and yet continue to give money to these companies which tell them that you're supporting them to keep debuting these young idols. minors have always been in kpop, that is true. but just because it's always been the norm it doesn't mean that it's right and that we should continue to normalize it. the ages of these idols are getting younger and younger, and companies will keep getting away with this because kpop stans are enabling them. "ThEy HaVe GoOd MuSiC" or "tHe MeMbErS aRe TaLeNtEd," yeah, that's exactly the reason these underage idols keep appearing. yall are all bark, no bite
I remember Jay from Enhypen getting so much backlash for saying that he prefered World History over Korean History and subsequently having to apologise. Heeseung saying the N word got nowhere as much backlash and instead more idols are getting "cancelled" for saying it. If International Knetz were just as much offended and knew when to withhold their monetary rights, the N word would be cleared from the Kpop industry's vocabulary.
heeseung got little to no backlash because every time black engenes tried speaking out they were “silenced” (?) with non-black people posting black people being l¥nched on weverse. it was all really gross and that’s what made me steer away from enhypen in all
sooooo agree with you that no one actually wants accountability, they want validation and attention. you see this among soooo many chronically online people not just kpop stans it’s wildddd
Okay. I am going to say this right now. I am kind of scared of commenting and talking about a scandal that an idol was involved in. I fear that if I say something, people will say "You're biased!" That is never my intention. If I ever comment on a scandal and sound biased, that is NOT what the impression I'm trying to give off. In saying that, I think we do need to hold idols accountable. BUT, in saying that, there needs to be a point where we are like, "Okay. You've done your time. You've sincerely apologised. Let's move on." You'll feel better doing that. It's okay if you can't listen to the idol's music anymore, by the way. Again, this is my opinion. You guys can disagree with me if you want. I don't want to start a war with this comment. That is not my intention. I know it has not happened yet, but I just want to make sure it doesn't happen.
I disagree. Its up to the courts. Holding an idol accountable is solely based on bias. JayPark and Bang Chan have done the same things but one is hated while one has excuses made for him. Chaeyong wore a hate symbol while Jackson Wang simply spoke up against sinophobia, and the backlash was the same.
that pretty much already exists. Most fans move on and start stanning the idol again and pretending like the scandal never happened. Depending on what they did, there are always gonna be people who just aren’t comfortable supporting the idol anymore. + considering the fact that we don’t know them personally and if they actually reflected and changed rather than just waited for time to pass for the heat to go down. not saying idols should be witch-hunted, of course, just saying there’s never gonna be a unanimous “ok, we’ll stop holding you accountable after x amount of time has passed”
Hi. If people don't feel comfortable supporting an idol for some reason, I understand. I guess as fans, we walk on this fragile line. I know I am scared that if I say I like listening to a certain group, I will get backlash. I was even worried about how people would respond to my original comment. I don't want to be cancelled.
it was so funny as an orbit seeing how exo-ls responded to exo having kicking two of their members be kicked out. instead of boycotting the group in protest to show their upset, a lot of them instead wanted to.... give them as much money as possible?? really sm would have seen this as a sign of gratitude more than anything else; a reward. it was really a shame, it could've been really cool to see a boycott take place against a big three company.
Say what you want about k-netz, but the fact that they actually hold grudges and have no problem dropping a celebrity when a real or even a ridiculous scandal happens, makes them so powerful. Look at the backlash and decrease in popularity that idols and actors face after bullying scandals and such. Orbits understood the assignment and took it a step further. Gotta admit it’s pretty astonishing.
i think part of why orbit's boycott was so powerful was because it was the company we were upset with, not the girls. orbits usually are pretty good about calling out the girls when a mistake is made, but i don't think we would've had such an effective and united approach if we weren't worried for the members' wellbeings. while i'm still amazed at how almost the entire fandom came together to completely withdraw our financial support, i don't think it's comparable to one idol doing something offensive (if anyone feels differently i would genuinely live to hear your opinions)
Orbits got like the biggest redemption ark because out of all of theses kpop fandoms they're the one that actually did more to show that they really cared for the idols that they're a fan of by actually boycotting their awful company
1:59 this is what I been saying tho cus Koreans understand how to ruin someone. Us international to say they are cancel yet still have a bunch of hype (like people such as James Charles who is still popular despite the fact he was talking to children since especially in America our cancel culture isn’t real). Another thing for international fans I wanted to add is the fact international have been mad and trying to cancel idols on things that are fine in Korea yet internationally fans saying it’s disrespectful in Korean culture (Ex. Wonyoung getting hate cus of the bowing situation and international fans were begging for apology even tho it’s not their culture nor do they know she didn’t even do shit)
I think another part of the issue is that ifans cannot agree upon an end goal for a boycott. When kfans are upset about someone dating someone, they break up and then the boycott is over. When they're upset about something an idol says, they go on hiatus and the boycott is over. When ifans are upset at something, there is not usually a 'fix' for the situation (you can't un-say a word or un-do cultural appropriation) other than the idol being removed from the group, which is a goal that most fans don't want and so therefore wouldn't participate in any kind of boycott. I think this is why the LOONA boycott worked- it punished the company rather than the idols, and most fans don't have the same kind of relationship with companies as they do with the actual performers. Some people do boycott idols to hold them accountable, but with the end goal being removal of a specific idol from the group, not enough fans are on board in order to actually effect anything, whether that be because they like the idol too much to get them removed or the fact that they don't think it's an issue in the first place and are willing to scream on Twitter but unwilling to do anything that would cause permanent change. And it becomes even more complex because you're right when you say people deserve the ability to grow and learn from their mistakes, but how do you organize a boycott around personal growth of a stranger? Idk this comment is really long but like...? You know?
Yay a new video by cheryl❤🎉i loved it accountability and k-pop stans don't together they value their piece of mind but hating on a idol for doing the stupidest thing is something kpop stans do with passion
its so crazy how fans will say anything and everything just to defend their idols.. a big example is idols being racist or saying the N word.. its honestly gross. They are full grown adults doing this shit, not infant's. Also thanks for the new vid!! somethimg nice to watch as i just got back froms school 😭
Reminder, our boycott is not over. As of today October 3rd 2023 bbc has claimed they have done nothing wrong and are still trying to destroy these women. Even though Loona is free, streaming will still go to bbc giving them even more revenue to put towards legal fees. Once they permanently run dry and Loona gains their royalties, that’s when the boycott is over.
Watching stay's hold idols accountable, specifically woojin, for leaving JYPE, while at the same time sending trucks to jype for better treatment for their faves is so insidious to me because jype are comfortable, knowing that none of skz will ever leave, they are probably terrified to do so. No matter how unhappy they are, they don't want stays to turn on them, the way they did Woojin. Stays have demonstrated that they lie about liking skz members, as soon as Woojin left they plotted against him, even wanting him dead. SKZ probably feel held hostage. Theyve already expressed they are losing their love of what they do. So jype can do whatever they want to them. Because stays will continue putting money in their pocket and continue punishing the one who left, for leaving. Wasting their own money and breath.
The whole “holding idols accountable” is cringe to me. It’s just mostly screaming into social media and it never reaches the idol themselves. It’s so superficial.
I’ll be frank I never liked Orbits all that much (loved Loona, just not their fans ;-;), but I can’t help but respect Orbits for doing what NO K-pop fan could ever do. They really stuck to their plans and did everything they could to free those girls from their evil ass company!! It’s incredible and I have to give them credit for their efforts 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 It must have been difficult to not listen to their fave group anymore, but they held on for the sake of the members, and now all of them are free! Orbits deserves good pat on the back for what they did; if I was an orbit I would be proud of myself 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
This extraordinary video should be mandatory viewing for every person on TH-cam. Actually, for every person who ever goes online. I've only been into K-pop for three months now and the fan/stan culture is very intense and difficult to understand for those, as you said, who are "on the outside, looking in." But everything you said in this video about international fans seems to apply to social media-spread outrage in the English speaking world. People immediately jump to conclusions without finding out more about the situation, without hearing from the other side, or even wanting to, from dredging up every accusation, allegation, rumor of negative behavior against- and confirmed mistakes of- the person in question. Thank you very much for this powerful and insightful video! 🙏🎯🎯🎯
pls, finally someone talking abut letting idols move on!! do people actually want these idols to be horrible people? other than apologising and not doing whatever they did again, what else are they supposed to do publicly? they aren't allowed to have political opinions, so making statement donations, or sharing current issues relating to the people they hurt, which is what most public figures usually do to redeem themselves. all they can do is educate themselves and grow from their mistakes, which is something they can't show publicly with the lack of freedom they have. it irks me so much when people drag idols' past around time and time again, because the people who do that don't actually care about what the idols did wrong, they only care about having a punching bag. personally, i'd love to see a reformed min heejin, for example, who sees that sexualizing 14 year olds and naming their songs after terrorist groups isn't okay. but that's not possible if every single time people complain and then go listen to njs music. or see the idols who say the n word or wear racist shirts actually understand why they offended people without getting harrassed online. i don't want idols to be shitty people, so i don't understand why stans would rather have them stay shitty instead of letting them better themselves. either boycott the idols so they see consequenses for their actions, or shut up about it and hope they do better in the future. screaming about it, giving them more attention and then listening to their music anyway is literally the least effective way of reacting.
I'm taking one of my first steps of accountability with boycotting newjeans and I'm kinda proud of myself. After ETA was released, I realised they tried to pass off the terrorist organisation as only a story metaphor which really wasn't even a solid one. It was basically the equivalent of an aesthetic. Plus the songs all being under 3 minutes and how everyone else in kpop is following it is also something I view as problematic (you cannot tell me at least 2 of those songs couldn't have used a bridge). This was the final straw as I was always on the edge with the promotion of the underage members+the gratification of it. So I've been staying away from newjeans music and content ever since. Removed all songs from spotify. Didn't watch ANY content including mv. I think I'm doing great by myself but I only wish more people could see how problematic this is and would boycott MHJ. Also i saw on my twt timeline they were having Minji promote an anti aging product or were talking about it lol. A 19 year old for an anti aging product cf? Kekkk
Crazy how the entire Kpop community was bending over backwards and threatening to boycott Hybe when cookie was dropped and now Nwjns is one of the most successful Kpop ggs. It’s laughable. People rlly are willing to turn a blind eye to child exploitation and put money in the pockets of Hybe predators just for some ringtone music
for example chaeyoung and that shirt, she was one of my ults, but after seeing her wearing that time and time again i had to unstan. but i've seen so many onces claim it wasn't a big deal (it was), i think people also seem to conflate a single action with their whole personality. i don't think cy is a nazi, i think she's uneducated and maybe unwilling to learn (i cannot say for sure, as there was barely an apology and i dont know what the pr team told her, or withheld from her.
say anything you want about orbits, but one thing about them is that they're one hell of a dedicated fandom and they genuinely do love all the girls. from trolling people in 2019 to get them to stream loona's music so they wouldn't disband to boycotting the group in order to free the girls. i've never seen another fandom this dedicated to a group and want nothing but the best for them and also just a reminder for people out there that pls continue to boycott loona's songs & mvs when they were still in bb€. i see lots of people doing this just bcs the members are free from the company. the girls may no longer be in the company, but bb€ still earns money if you listen/watch their songs legally!
Here's my question: at what point does the punishment outweigh the crime? -At what point is it bad enough to boycott? -At what point is it bad enough to that even though it makes you want to personally stop supporting that performer, but not bad enough to demand that everyone else do the same? -At what point is is necessary to do anything more than just tell them what they did wrong, ask for an apology, and move on? -When is there an issue where both sides are being too stubborn and the most reasonable reaction is somewhere in the middle? That last category is so difficult because people actually get _more_ entrenched in their beliefs when confronted with anything to the contrary, and it's not like we can form a committee to create a standard consensus that everyone can agree to.
becoming an orbit during the boycott was one of the hardest yet most interesting things ever to see .. watching all the girls get freed one by one from their label was so nice to see especially how hard orbits work to get everyone to stop streaming or interacting with the gg’s socials and releases. it really shows how hard fans go for their idols (stream sensitive by loossemble ..)
I think the “all publicity is good publicity” thing still depends on what the scandal itself is. A lot of people became Wonyoung stans because they saw through how stupid the hate she got was. As for Hailey, she’s not ~totally~ innocent, but the hate she receives is so completely left field that people can’t help but feel bad for and defend her - especially considering that a lot of the hate just comes from jealous Jelena fans. Now if you look at particularly ugly controversies, like Chaeyoung’s nazi shirt and Dababy’s honophobic rants, they aren’t necessarily things that would generate enough support from the outrage they caused.
Oh my God!!! Thank you so much for this one, it's crazy how this is common sense but ppl just don't want to keep companies and idols accountable. If we weren't like this the industry would be so different
It's a horrible thing to think about but I really believe that these idols keep on making the same, offensive "mistakes" time and time again because it doesn't affect them. They don't go out of their way to educate themselves because although they might get some backlash they go on to receive full support on their next comeback. If people actually held their idols accountable - impacting their sales/income - you can bet these idols would suddenly become a lot more kind, educated and sensitive to their fans.
@@tolanisimpson5360 tbf some companies deserve to lose money over how they treat their artists and if it comes to this i will stop supporting my fave group if it means they will be free
The orbit boycott thing is what made so much of this video clear to me. Especially after I watched SM spit directly into exols and ncitizens' faces while they raked money in from album and concert sales
seriously people still bring up something one of my biases did when he was literally 12 years old and later apologized for with a handwritten note both to the public AND to the victims in question - who forgave him btw. its tiring. and the way people want to be the first to jump on hate trains just cuz they read it on twitter without ANY context and then ignore people who know what they are talking about is absurd. people just want to be angry and hateful for no reason at all.
On one hand, I see the need for fans/companies to held idols accountable for some of the stuff, for example n-wod. But I feel like it's too powerful of a tool to wield. Fans sometimes have unrealistc, harmful demands, one of the examples being wating a member removed because they are/were in a relationship (for example Rizz, Exo), wanting to remove female dancers (Enhypen), wanting to apologize for sometimes stupid/not their fault things (Woonyoung) etc. So, as much as I wish wrongs were corrected, i feel like fans demans cause more bad than good and I'm fine with fans having less infuelnce on companies/idols/groups.
also another reason why boycotts like what orbits did won't work especially in bigger groups because fans don't want to see their groups flop in sales and charts.
I am a shawol and moa, I have never really listened to Loona’s music... I'm so glad they're free now❤ I might listen to their music if anyone has any recommendations please let me know
Well, you do listen to quite some good music I will say. I'm personally a girl group Stan but love TXT songs and shinee have great songs as well. I haven't listened to all of Loona's Bsides but I personally recommend these songs: Butterfly Universe Satellite Wow (sorta has a few of shinee and TXT songs vibe) Star They also have pre debut solos. I recommend these 3 the most: Egoist - Olivia Hye (Goes by Hyejoo, her real name now) Eclipse - Kim Lip (Goes by Jungeun, her real name now) Heart Attack - Chuu (even casual listeners know this song. Most people's first loona solo)
Hi, the ppl who is commenting recommendations: we orbits are STILL in the middle of a boycott till bbc goes into bankruptcy, so we ask to please don't stream their songs. Instead you could listen to the new Odd Eye Circle songs in their album "Version Up". They made a comeback in another company. Also please listen to Loossemble, a new group with 5 members of loona under another company too. They just dropped their new single "Sensitive" and it's really good! As well as their new mini album! Please check that out
It's great you want to learn more about loona! but the boycott is still not over unfortunately bc bbc is still in their rockers and harassing the loona members with more bogus lawsuits to this day (just lost another one like 10 minutes ago), so if you can, pirate the songs if you want to listen to them 😂
yapping and crying on social media will never work, if people want to *properly* hold idols accountable then bring that up to the label or even idol themselves and let them know how their actions negatively affect a community.
I was actually thinking that before i-netz can hold anyone accountable, we all need to get on the same page. It's like, how do you follow a rule if you don’t know what they are? How do we tell someone what upset us and how to fix it if we can't agree what was offensive and what's the correct next course of action?
LITERALLY! OMG SOMEONE NEEDED TO SAY IT!!! i'd always be so confused on tumblr when posts blow up about idols appropriating etc etc (chenle/kai's cornrows) and holding each specific idol "accountable"... like.. what are we really even talking/doing about these issues where people reblog these trendy posts about social justice and "accountability" in one post and then meme about how p*ssy popping these groups' music are in the next.. it's just an infuriating cycle, like why are we like this !!!
This reminds me of the fifty fifty thing. Like these are mostly teenage girls who do nothing all day but practice singing and dancing, rack up huge amounts of debt in slave contracts and just do what the adults around them tell them to do. Good on orbits for having their head screwed on right and not buying that Chuu was a bully or something, and understanding who the people with power axtually are in these situations.
@@arain764niara fr, like if you put all k-pop fandoms together in a classroom, Orbits definitely would be the outcasted weirdo which despite being a neurodivergent, they get their shit done
Yuuuuppp blocked Loona on Spotify and listened to that podcast playlist religiously lol. Now I gotta buy the solo/unit albums and they runnin my pockets dry but I need my girlies to stay afloat ya know?😩
kpop stans are notoriously bad at putting their money where their mouth is. everyone talks until they're blue in the face about how companies should stop debuting minors, but when they get told that the only way to force companies to stop is to boycott any group that has minor member to kill the demand for minor idols (which means no newjeans, no ive, no lesserafim, etc), then everyone shifts into "nuh-uh" mode. it's gratification above all else.
I may not like Yu-Gi-Oh, but the fact that she sported an anime shirt is nothing but a win in my book. ❤ Her style isn’t strange at all. She’s completely casual and not showy, which to me is way more approachable, relatable, and of course comfortable.
I think the reason why the loona boycott worked so well is because not only international fans worked together but also the korean fanbase aswell, in other cases when groups or idols do something wrong international fans usually bring it up and call them out, usually ending up with nothing happening. But with the loona boycott, not only international but korean aswell worked together to stop anyone from supporting anything that gave BBC money.
For real, when the Giselle saying the N-word happen, I tought is was a random old video of her, but I checked and it was recently from the official channel, I was so surprise that they did not realize this while they edit it.
as an orbit who faced the boycott and was there from the moment- it was hard. it really was. you don’t like to see people suffer, even if it’s someone you don’t know personally, or even at all.
Actually there are time limits from some crimes, for example if someone did something bad and someone saw it, has a time limit to report it, is not like you are going to sit for 30 years then comeback when you want to report someone, is like bruh!?
ISTG I keep telling people in different comment sections to (financially) boycott groups with young idols when they are complaining about their age, but that's seemingly not doable. When I said that about NewJeans I was literally told + there were videos with thousands of likes stating that "their music is too good"...like what? How washed up do your morals have to be if you choose child labor and p**dophilia over just not listening to a bunch of songs, not watching a bunch of videos and unfollowing three accounts. Now everyone is angry about JYPE debuting a 13yo, when history has shown again and again that the outrage brings attention and kpop stans will support it anyway. Blaming everything else, but being the problem yourself.
YOUR VIDEOS R SO GOOD NEVER STOP also i wish everyone was as much as a critical and nuanced thinker of you 😭 you are so smart i love the way you look at different sides of things and all information and have the most reasonable conclusions
the hard truth is that non-black Kpop stans, domestic and international, do not actually care about anti-black racism in the Kpop industry. it's too rampant and wide spread, and most black Kpop stans are fully aware of this cognitive dissonance and how to navigate it. it's an industry built on ripping from black American music and aesthetics, and when we get very aggressive instances of racism from idols like slurs and blackface, it's built on top of a much larger system of constantly appropriating black American sounds and aesthetics, often in ways that reinforce racist stereotypes (how many times do we see "hard" or "sexy" eras use black hairstyles or streetwear as a visual crutch to convey "danger"). on top of that, Kpop companies do hire black American songwriters and producers to work on songs, and I am genuinely glad those folks are getting their coin, but that doesn't change the fact that the outward face of these companies (the idols themselves and celebrity executives at the top) don't include these folks, their social media reach, or their bank accounts. all this to say that when the inevitable racist controversy hits a particular idol or group, non-black stans don't see this larger system for what it is, because most of them don't care that much about anti-blackness in the wider world to begin with, let alone actually bothering to learn where it comes from and how wider systems of black oppression operate. so it becomes about semantics, it becomes a game of he-said she-said. it becomes about stan wars and stanning the "right" idol. and that's why there's never going to be any teeth coming from international stans calling out racism. anti-blackness doesn't actually mean anything to most of them outside of looking good on stan twitter, and it can be flattened out to be the same as any other controversy in Kpop. accusations of racism are only important insofar as they are useful for propping up or tearing down people's faves. you're right to say that fans don't want accountability because true accountability would include THEMSELVES and their behavior/consumer practices, not just the idols. it's the MOST all bark and no bite these stans will ever be, because actually biting back would mean questioning the entire industry, and making the folks at the top (companies, govt officials promoting soft power, etc) reconsider how South Korea's largest entertainment exports actually conduct themselves on the world stage. and frankly, I can't imagine that happening when nonblack folks can't even maintain pressure against racist institutions in their own countries (including entertainment industries). anti-blackness in Kpop will stop being tolerated when anti-blackness is actually taken seriously on a global scale.
Black influences in clothing and especially music are extremely common and have become ubiquitous in mainstream pop culture, and aren’t going away anytime soon. But if idols want to wear that style of clothes and make that type of music, they should at the bare minimum be…not racist. Giving credit is cool, but unless they were directly inspired by someone it’s more a matter of respecting and acknowledging the originators. I don’t think most idols become idols with racist intentions, but the industry still has a lot of progress to make.
In terms of the LOONA boycott and why it was so succesful, I think it's also important to consider that BBC was very clearly villainous and malicious towards the girls. Every single Orbit could agree that it was a problem because there was a staggering amount of evidence that the girls no longer wanted to be part of BBC, had unfair contracts, and Chuu had already been put through so much shit. (Fans also tend to be better at banding together against a company than against an idol) In contrast, a lot of other KPop controversies split the fandoms that were involved. Different people agreed or disagreed on whether or not it was a problem, what the source of the problem was, and how to deal with it. You did mention this briefly, but I also think that holding such a massive movement is more difficult for international fans because we're all from different countries and cultures that have a wide array of beliefs/values.(this is especially true of any issue that is related to culture) K-netz are a lot more unified, so it's easier for them to band together on the same subject and also make good on threats, there is not nearly as much division. In contrast, with the LOONA situation, anyone from anywhere could agree that the girls needed to get the hell out of that company or they would be in millions of dollars of debt.
That's not true at all. There were Orbits defending BBC or doubting if it was truly what the girls wanted. Initially most Korean and Japanese Orbits were not even on board with the boycott. The international fandom pulled its weight and managed to convince everyone to follow through. Orbits are the living evidence that every other fandom who fails to hold their idols accountable and help them when in need are hypocrites and cowards who make up excuses to not act. They don't really think about what is good for their idols. They are loyal to meaningless trophies, sales figures nobody will remember and other futile achievements instead of being loyal to people they love and respect.
As an orbit, thank you for this! We organized effeciently and quickly, and I hope that other kpop fans can see how we have successfully freed the girls/made change and recognize that once monetary support is taken, companies will act quicker because they need money. Its much easier said than done especially given BBC's only real promoted artist was Loona (and it would be harder for this to happen to a... say SM group) but thats not to say it doesnt work... orbits get a bad rep but one thing that has been consistent in the time ive been an orbit (since 2017) is that we can organize quickly when its necessary
Korean and Chinese fans have so much power, but they usually use it for boycotting a member for getting in a relationship or not promoting long enough 😂
I think part of the issue is a lack of faith in the system's ability or willingness to attribute a boycott or negative impact to the bottom line properly. If fans mass together and choose not to purchase, stream, watch, or otherwise consume media from a specific kpop group, they fear that instead of the message being sent reading as "You have messed up and we will not support you financially until you change your behavior" it will instead read as "We're bored and tired of this group and we don't care if you disband them". I feel as though it's every kpop stan's nightmare for their favorite groups to disband, and to many people a boycott feels like it could be helping along a company's choice to do just that. The company will instead blame the idols. The most common reason stated for disbandment is a lack of profitability, alongside demanding more money in a contract renewal or having a lack of consensus among group members if the group should continue. Because the company has more trainees and other groups in their repertoire, they don't care which group or which idols wind up getting chopped due to their bad actions- they will simply debut a new group with new idols and run them into the ground eventually, too. So then, it becomes a battle between wanting change, but being afraid of drastic action and the resulting negative consequences. Most people, particularly the parties that haven't actually been harmed, aren't willing to risk the failure of their favorite group over a single incident. Even if the subject matter of that incident is highly important to them. I'm usually a big advocate for speaking with your wallet and making responsible spending choices whenever possible- money talks, after all. However, I've noticed kpop labels are particularly resistant to this kind of effort. I'm sure that is at least in part due to the level of fervency in the fanbase that will continue to spend even if the entire world is crashing down, but I believe at least part of it is that there is a culture of passing the blame down the line until it reaches someone who can no longer find another person to lay the blame on. Instead of answering the dip in profits to their own actions, they accuse the idols of making some mistake- often with devastating consequences for said idols' careers. That isn't to say that the idols themselves aren't ever actually responsible, they might be, but even if they were not, the blame always eventually makes it back around to them. I also think people just flat don't understand what parts of a kpop idol group's presentation to the public are the responsibility of which entity. I see this most often when addressing how an idol is dressed at an official event- it's like people forget that stylists exist, that the idols don't choose or sometimes even see the clothes before they're being pulled onto their bodies, that sometimes they'll get put in three or four versions of an outfit before being pushed out on stage or on camera. The same can be said for concept issues, album designs, and often times elements of the music like production, lyrics, and choreography. Uninformed stans fail to realize how much of this is actually directly controlled by the company and not by the idol. I think young fans in particular have this mental image of all the idols sharing some big fantasy closet and hand-picking what they wear, or sitting at a round table to draw the album cover concept, etc. Sometimes, that might be part of it, but usually it is not. Understanding what an idol actually has control over (For example, saying the n-word in a tiktok video! That's absolutely something they can control!) and what they do not (Offensive words in a language they don't speak well on their shirt).
I think the failure of boycotting or holding accountable is mostly because even though people complain (rightfully), there are still MORE people who do not care about the issue at all. There are still MORE fans who will go hard defending their fave and calling the criticism "jealousy" (literally their only defense, sometimes). Also, a lot of fans who genuinely want accountability from one member feel sorry for the other members so don't withold their support.
KPop stans: I’m holding my faves accountable?
Person: So, you stopped buying their albums and merch?
KS: No.
P: Oh! So, you don’t stream their music or watch their music videos?
KS: No.
P: You unfollowed them on social media?
KS: No.
P: Then what did you do?
KS: I RETWEETED A POST THAT SAYS #___DoBetter 😌
Keep reading for your weekly installment of Danny writing way more than is necessary but he has too many thoughts and cannot figure out how to condense them lol
I’ve been saying this for years (and I’m sounding like a broken record): Companies talk wit money, not with hashtags.
I’m so impressed with Orbitz. I didn’t stan Loona at first (this was like 2019) because of the reputation this fandom had. The last thing I wanted to do was support a group when their fandom was commenting “Maybe they’d still be alive if they had stanned Loona” under posts to mourn those that were gone. But after seeing them actually doing something this commendable, I developed a lot of respect for the fandom. Neverland, you’re not going to like hearing this, but giving (G)I-DLE their biggest era after Soojin was kicked out just proved to Cube that they made the financially correct choice. This should be a lesson to all fandoms.
Also, can we talk about how fans don’t actually want their faves to be accountable? Only the idols that they hate. Remember the Chaeyoung situation from the beginning of the year? While most people I interacted with were pretty level headed about the whole thing, nobody was more adamant about the woman getting cancelled than Blinks. Same could be said about the recent issue with Bang Chan. Stays are still defending the man like his life depends on it while other 4th gen stans (both boy and girl groups) were acting like he should retire. It’s rare to find an idol doing something wrong and their own fans being the ones holding them accountable.
Onto the word accountability: It means nothing. James Charles proved that. How are you going to make half of a dozen 45+ minute videos of yourself talking to the camera, saying you’re “holding yourself accountable” and then being caught less than a month later still exchanging explicit photos with minors? Nobody knows what that means apparently. Accountability is having tangible repercussions to your actions. It’s not having a 2 day hate train on Twitter that’ll fizzle out once bored stans find the next thing to preoccupy themselves with.
Which brings me to my 6 month rule. I believe that people can change and should be given the opportunity to change. That doesn’t happen overnight. So, I figured 6 months should be enough. After that, I’ll let a situation go as long as the person isn’t a repeat offender. Chaeyoung’s 6 month period ends after this week. I’ve already forgiven Giselle. But Bang Chan? He continues to conduct himself recklessly on live streams and during fan meetings and anywhere that involves him interacting with Stays. It’s going to be a long time before I can fully forgive him for inadvertently causing other idols to receive hate because he can’t gauge what’s an appropriate way to talk to his fans. But I have faith that he’ll get there. And when he does, I’lo be able to let him move on from this situation too. But yeah, people need to stop bringing up issues from 1+ years ago. Obviously, there are exceptions. If an idol becomes convicted for something, then that’s going to take a much longer time to get over (cough cough Kris).
Ultimately, accountability should be proportionate to the transgression committed. And it should be pursued with the objective of the person being held accountable to recognize 1. What they did wrong 2. Why it was wrong 3. How to correct their mentality/actions as to not be a repeat offender in the future. People make mistakes. That’s unfortunately the best way that we learn. And all mistakes have consequences. But the consequences should never outweigh what was done. KPop stans really need to understand what accountability is and how to go about enforcing it. You saying that you’re holding your faves accountable by tweeting out your disappointments while still buying all 10,000 copies of their latest album and streaming their music 24/7 isn’t going to send the message that they did something wrong.
Anyways, that’s enough out of me. Y’all know the drill! Thank you if you’ve read this far! Now please go drink some water because we don’t mess with dehydration here 💙
I read your comments like the bible. Life changing, undeniable truth.
@@theanti-veela-leprechaunI appreciate you so much 😭❤️
I dunno why but there is never a dull moment when I see your comments. They are always well structured with good points and sometimes funny and sarcastic. I have a huge respect for you keep up
Danny you always make the best comments 😭😭👏🏻👏🏻
side note - it's crazy to me that orbits, one of the most CHAOTIC random fandom I have ever seen, managed to band together to create the MOST successful boycott in kpop history (correct me if you think I'm wrong!). in one way or another, loona has left multiple marks on the kpop industry, from their predebut project, to the beauty of large and complicated female choreos, to literally influencing laws and legal systems, which we've seen impact positively e.g. omega x. love or hate loona or our fandom, but we have done a lot more than so many fandoms and groups out there. thank you Cheryl, for your appreciation of orbits in this scenario.
to be fair, i find it hilarious. one thing that orbits have always had going for them is that they're dedicated to the girls, and the girls only. yes, the lore and the music is great, but orbits have been the ones promoting loona since predebut, they're one of the most dedicated fanbases out there. so as surprising as it is, i think it makes sense that these insane people were the only ones who managed to make some change for once.
girl, when i saw the pre-sales for that foolish comeback bbc tried to do in comparison to their flip that presales and stuff before, my jaw dropped 😭 we really did that!
@@momomomo__ literally, i was echoing “stan loona!” before i rlly got into kpop and 3 years before i even became a real orbit. Orbits are very dedicated.
I dislike orbits but dam I'm surprised
I think one HUGE reason that the Loona boycott succeeded was that the members, especially HyunJin, communicated their support for the boycott. Every time a fan whined about "if I don't buy their album it will hurt the girls" or "if I don't buy the album the girls will be sad", it was simple to just point to HyunJin's social media posts. HyunJin never said a word against BlockBerry (although she definitely rode the line closely - but what was BlockBerry going to do, fire her?) but she used comments and emoji that fans easily understood to know that the members were ABSOLUTELY on board with the boycott. The day the album was "postponed" (cancelled) HyunJin posted a smiling emoji and said "Today is a good day" - of course everyone knew what she was referring to but the company couldn't punish her because all she did was say something that you'd expect an idol to say.
Orbits can definitely take immense pride in their part in getting Loona free of BlockBerry Creative, even if the price tag was perhaps never getting OT12 content again. HyunJin played a critical role in being the leader of the resistance and liaison of the group to the fans - so critical in fact that it is easy to see how the whole boycott could have easily failed had the fans not known that the members of Loona supported them.
Remember when everybody was slandering and threatening to stop supporting New Jeans for ETA but when it got released ppl acted as if nothing happened?
i hate the fact that nobody holds MHJ accountable properly... I try, any NJ content are remixes for Hype Boy Attention and OMGanything else will not be watched esp legally
@@ChloeBxreal
@@ChloeBx honestly I've completely stopped listening to their music. I'm not trying to sabotage them or boycott them, I'm smart enough to know it won't work, it's just for myself, I cannot be at peace with myself while I listen to a group that is being produced by somebody who takes very serious issues and topics as an aesthetic
@@ChloeBxMin Heejin is up there with YG as one of the shadiest people in the industry. People only give her the benefit of the doubt because she's a woman
No. Most people didn't give a fuck about it and didn't even see ETA as controversy. And they just continued to do so. There was no "everybody".
I am so so proud of orbits. It was amazing watching it in real time how they freed the girls.
orbits might be a bit crazy but we got the jist and went on with the boycott, gotta appreciate that 😍
@hanj1sunx for me it will forever iconic.
yeah orbits are really weird but atleast they really care abt the girls😌😌😌
@@hello980 fr we’re funny tho
@@Blodhelm and a Chuu solo, plus Yves writing music/possibly being solo? Blockberry got their just desserts while we're having REAL dessert with our lovelies 🌜
i seriously cannot believe how well the loona boycott worked, the fact that there sales dropped from thousands of preorders to LESS THAN A THOUSAND is absolutely insane. i didn’t expect one of the *most* chaotic fandoms to be able to pull off the best k-pop boycott ever, and probably will be ever considering how things just won’t change.
I believe the preorders was a little over 100 AND the stores across the world that sell kpop stuff agreed to not order the albums
I just stop streaming and not buy their album. Also, submit a petition. It is quite easy for me. But some orbits' efforts are extensive. They reach out to kpop stores to explain the situation and persuade the stores to boycott as well. They keep on voicing out in the social media to remind us to boycott. Some also in contact with the girls' lawyer and advocate to other orbits to submit petitions with our real identity (but only give half censored emails&phone numbers).
I am proud of orbits!
@@arain764niara i heard it was like 97 but either way a 99% percent drop is still insane ^^
also so sorry for getting the wrong number
@@FrostyPlayzYT oh I wasn't upset or anything I just wanted people to know how bad it can get for the company if fans actually decided to band together in support of the artist(s)
@@arain764niara oh 😭 nw and ty for ur comment :D and i def agree, the fans could make or break things, if they try ehe
I also wanted to point out, for Orbits, with LOONA using all messaging apps, there were a few times where one of the members said something ignorant or questionable, and Orbits were quick to call that out, immediately messaged them, didn't take any bullshit or made excuses for them. We've always gotten sincere apologies and a changed behavior from the girls thanks to that. I appreciate it.
are you talking abt yeojin lol?
@@Archanam5175 not only yeojin i fear
@@Archanam5175 yes, jinsoul and yves too
@@ParuParo95 and hyeju
Yes, and we make sure that the girls take those messages seriously, and they did, which is why I'm thankful for them.
no because i've never seen a boycott work so well before orbits actually did through it on the international side. as an orbit myself, it felt like everyone was actually on the same page. the boycott is still going on too, with people still refusing to stream what bbc still owns on their official platforms and made sure everyone knew what was going on.
I am not orbit but got cueious because a couple of their songs in queendom but because the boycot I have no idea were to listen. 😢
Orbits were never alone in this.
I think Orbits realized through the debut era that we’re more powerful than we think when we work together. I know other fandoms saw it as obnoxious but we genuinely were so excited about the group, we just wanted to see them succeed. So I think it was easier for us to reverse course bc we still all had the same goal - the members’ success. I’m so grateful to Orbits and non-Loona fans who supported the cause. It helped ease the blow of losing OT12. 🌙
Yves said today that she's in a girl group and Chuu talks about the members. No way we lost OT12.
The Loona situation worked because there was one common enemy and everyone agreed that they didn't want the group to be mistreated. This is completely different when everyone has different opinions and motives like when an idol does something that only offends some people. Some may be angry at that one idol, but wouldn't boycott because they don't want to hurt the whole group. Also, a lot of those people who claim to be offended are solo stans or antis who take advantage of the situation to hate on an idol they don't like.
I'll second that. I don't know every single detail but one thing remained true - Blockberry being incompetent. So once we finally had something tangible to show BC was EVEN WORSE in actuality, we got on board to get them out and supported them.
Good point. For this reason tho, I think that’s why idols and companies _should_ be scared to mess up, because it will cause the entire group to suffer, not just an individual.
(And when I say mess up, I mean actually like MESS UP, not something dumb like a dating scandal)
Holding their idols accountable rarely seems to work for international stans. The only country that actually seems to do this right is Chinese K-pop stans. The amount of times K-pop company's have relented and appeased the Chinese market is crazy.
Ever wondered why so many Kpop groups make Japanese/Chinese versions of their songs? That’s because Kpop is geared mainly towards Korean fans, but also Chinese and Japanese fans as well. And scandals that anger those fans are bad for companies because of the major political tensions between those countries. That’s why the Tzuyu “scandal” was so big that she had to apologise publicly. A kpop group can survive without popularity from the international market (minus those 2 countries). As long as they are popular or have some form of a fan base in Korea and/or China/Japan, it’s okay. But if they have NO Korean fans? Or if they are deemed as irredeemable in the eyes of China/Japan? They’re done. That’s why 50/50 will probably unfortunately never be able to achieve popularity again. In the eyes of the Korean public, they are betrayers to their company and have ruined their images. They also never got the opportunity to build themselves up in Japan/China and Korea.
That’s also why TWICE is one of the most successful kpop ggs. Yes, they’re popular internationally, but JYP spent time curating their images in Korea/China/Japan, before focusing on their international traction. It also helps that they have one Chinese/Taiwanese member as well as 3 Japanese members.
K-netz, C-netz, and J-netz will ALWAYS take priority over international fans. Because at the end of the day, K-pop = Korean pop. Music for Koreans. And China and Japan are important politically to Korea. It’s sad, but it is what it is.
(Sorry for typing a whole essay in your comments lol).
International fans don’t understand how to do cancel culture and especially America is the best example.
@@Blodhelmthank you 😊
@@kc87557 thank you for explaining this clearly. 👏🏅
Not to mention, from what i remember, isn't China cancel culture was something that you can't mess around with? If you are a problematic ( or basically, had a criminal record ) person, you can get blacklisted from the industy itself. Kris Wu is one of the popular cases, and that man truly deserves to get jailed.
ーedited, and i hope no one misunderstood since english isn't my first language.
The biggest problem that I have rn with the industry is their NEED to debut minors. It's fcking weird and awful to see those kids being mistreated and crushed by public and industry. kpop stans should start boycotting ALL the companies to make illegal to debut minors. Period.
It’s not a need it’s always been in the system…why would they stop doing it when it’s worked for generations and you guys don’t feel bad for listening to idols who started as minors…
@@venusianss “it’s always been done this way and it worked” how do you know that? oh, the idol is currently alive and has no public history of being sa? is that really where the bar is? people literally sexualize underage idols every single day, male or female, and with how deepfakes and stuff are going, are basically creating CP of these idols. and the companies are feeding into it by giving the idols questionable concepts or outfits. if you look at an example like taemin, who is SO outwardly open about debuting too young alongside his members, then no, it doesn’t work and has never worked. this is a larger problem within kpop of sexualization and bullying of idols, but minors are NOT the people to be handling it. not even taking into consideration the “darker side of kpop” that goes into it such as possible SA or SH that happens within companies, forced plastic surgeries, extreme diets, and abuse. this shouldn’t happen to any idol, i agree, but at the very least literal children should not be on camera because they are not mature yet to handle all of these things. idk why y’all fight tooth and nail to defend the debuting of minors when it literally does NO harm at all for people to just debut them when they’re a little older. look at sm in recent years, they haven’t debuted a single minor since nct dream and things are going well for them. idk what difference it makes and why this is y’all’s ONLY defence is crazy to me. like why???
@@venusianss and there are many groups who are 18+ who are successful so let’s not
@@venusianss "its always been in the system" doesn't mean we don't need change. BoA, debuted 13, said she regrets debuting so young. The Moon siblings - Sua said that even thought she loved her brother, they didn't spend much time during their childhood because they were both training. It's ruining these people's childhoods, if not more.
@@nimitsu_ read I was being rhetorical. you guys have contributed to the system and still listen to these artists. These kids aren’t forced to join the Industry they just do.
The Orbit boycott was very successful, but when it was first implemented and everything was still "sources and insiders said..." the boycott had it's detractors as well. There were many people who said that we didn't know if the girls wanted this and that this would hurt them, to which most responded that nothing was going to hurt them Blockberry was at that moment. I think this demonstrates how much a lot of kpop fans are so focused on the immediate effects as opposed to the long term. The members has repeatedly thanked their fans for sticking up for them and how the boycott gave them strength during their lawsuits, the long term gains far outweighed any possible hurt feelings at the time.
Idols being held "accountable" for dating was and still is one of the most absurd and vile things any so called "stan" should be ashamed of doing.
Two consensual adults falling in love for their own happiness is nobody else's business. It's perfectly legal and more importantly, it's human.
Anyone who crusade over an idol's personal love interest has never supported this idol for their talent and accomplishment, but rather their own perverted parasocial fantasy.
For real some of these stans need to grow up and realize that their favorite idols can have a love life 😭
I always found it pretty weird when stans would get upset or mad over idols dating like it's a new concept that nobody's ever heard of. As long as the relationship isn't abusive, has both people to be of age, and both people are happy then I don't really see a problem.
Nothing is quite like K-pop with its hive mentality when It comes to scandals. If an idol says or does something I don’t like I just stop consuming their content. That simple. Heck even if a groups music starts to go in a direction I don’t vibe with I’m out. I don’t owe them anything, I’m in control of my own interests!
I don’t usually tell people, it’s my business.
Great vid btw ❤
Same. There are quite a few groups I've stopped consuming content from, because they kept repeating their mistakes. Western artists too actually. The dependency some fans seem to have on their faves is scary....although I say this as someone who is sure that my favorite group won't repeat their mistakes.
People treat the term "holding them accountable" as a license to freely bully. That's all it is actually accomplishing as opposed to what it is supposed to be.
Or they’ll use it as a shield so they they can continue stanning the idol in peace without the guilt
as an orbit, i’m super proud of us because we seriously just stood up and and understood exactly what we needed to do, despite the fact that we all love loona and their music, we resisted the temptation. i definitely wish that other fans could do the same but, k-pop stan’s aren’t at that level just yet
11:26 YES mainland and diaspora are usually reacting differently bc diaspora might get bullied/ostracised due to being a minority (cornrows/braids, being a certain religion etc) while it is not an issue in the mainland and creates division between them! This is one of the most important points in this video
This is why Qipao “My culture is not a prom costume” incident is non-existent in mainland China/Taiwan/Asian Chinese diaspora compared to western Chinese diaspora.
genuinely surprised at how orbits managed to pull a boycott for so long, it's admirable
And it's still happened until today, and will keep happening
honestly me myself as an orbit was also that i can boycott all of their music but in the end it works well for the girls and i'm happy that they can still perform and be idols
A saying to describe international fans:
"your all talk but no action"
all bites no bark
I want a fandom as dedicated as orbits if i ever get into music or something. Seriously-the only fans that 100% have the celebrities’ back, without much of the weird stalking or sexualization that a lot of other big fandoms have.
SO REALLLL. especially the part about not allowing idols to actually grow and move on. so many people dont even care about the scandal either, they just use it as a tool in fan wars
your point on how accountability should be a full cycle immediately reminded me of wendy. her scandal happened in 2018 but she is still one of the most hated kpop idols from what ive seen. the fact that she receives so much hate even though she has not done anything problematic for years now really shows how many kpop stans who ‘hold idols accountable’ honestly just want an excuse for bullying in my opinion
This isn't exactly the same as the topic being discussed, but this can be said about music quality. I have noticed, especially with big fandoms that fans will complain about a groups' music quality going down but will support the comeback just so their favs can have the highest sales or the number 1 spot. I know that music is subjective, but from my personal experience i have seen large group of fans mass stream music and then when the comeback period is over they start complaining and saying that the music wasn't good, and hope for a better comeback. And I just look at these comments in shock, like do you expect the company to create better songs, concepts, stages when they realise that fans will eat up anything even when it's mediocre. I remember seeing this tweet saying that 'now that the group are not promoting anymore, the comeback was crap and I only defended it for the boys'. And the tweet had thousands of likes and people agreeing. I can't stream music I don't like, even if it's from my ult group.
this is exactly the problem and unfortunately, the habit that big company stans have of supporting shitty comebacks trickles down to smaller groups, cause when the management of smaller companies see a bigger group succeeding with a certain concept, they'll copy it assuming their nugu groups will get a hit, only for them flop and waste their little funds. in reality, the concept was horrible and it was only successful cause a big group released it and big 4 stans will eat up anything
Fr
Yep
PREACHHHH
It's a huge rusk to do that bc one single failed era can tank a group forever in an industry like kpop, very fickle. But honeslty, idc about people who go around calling ppl who don't stream 24/7 "fake fans"!, none of these ppl pay my bills. If I don't like the music, then I won't hear it and idc if it's from my faves. Next era hopefully it's better. Move along.
Dragon Ball Z Reference: Kpop Companies see Knetz as Majin Buu, they got a whole lot of bark, and a whole lot of bite to match. International fans are like Raditz, they got a whole lot of bark, and virtually no bite to back that up.
Dragon Ball Z reference, a man after my own heart 😂
At this point im not ignoring nwjns existence because of their age, because thats a way bigger issue, but because i hate mhj and i refuse to support her
Fair enough min heejin is a creep
This is one of the reasons why I just gave up on trying to hold idols or groups accountable because
1. it's tiring and it's taking time away from what I could be doing for fun things
2. people get up and arms that we don't agree on the same things even if we are from the same culture and don't respect each other opinions
3. rarely do our "cries" be heard from the international side (I have only seen 2 of my ult groups in the last few years actually take action when they did culture appropriation and change it for the future)
The accountability that most stans want isn't going to happen. Yes, there is a lot of international fans now, but we don't have the same power as others who actually live in Korea. We have to be strategic in order to actually see change happen and it has happened before when companies actually listen to their fans (typically smaller companies), but it's not a common occurrence.
As a biracial black woman, I have just given up on trying to be moral police in this community cause I just don't want to spend my time or energy on these things cause I rarely see it happen and when I have, I get backlash from it that I can't be offended or I'm not offended enough. There's rarely any mutual respect when it comes to these things.
There is literally no lie in this video!!!! K-pop Stan “accountability” is actually just “lets send hate and d3@th thr3ats to this idol till someone does something worse, then we can go hope on another bandwagon.” I can’t tell you how many times people respond to controversial situations with pure hate and disrespect before anyone even gets to share the FULL story.
K-pop Stan’s want to act like the hero’s of the story EVERY SINGLE TIME something happens. But at the same time, they lack the critical thinking skills necessary to actually understand the situation. You can’t save someone from something _if you don’t really know who needs to be saved._ And you can’t save them unless you know the most effective way to do so. Sending hate and threats IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO GET ACCOUNTABILITY and it will never be.
Plus, no one on the internet ever knows how to MOVE ON. Hell, if an idol at the age of 19 or 20 said something mean to someone at the age of *3* I can bet you SOMEONE will say they “deserve to be held accountable for their actions” like honey stfu. There is a difference between holding someone accountable for their actions, and making a situation that has ALREADY BEEN DELT WITH _YEARS BEFORE_ worse than it needs to be. K-pop Stan’s refuse to look in the present time. They are sooo hyper focused on the past of an idols life that even the smallest things that they might’ve done YEARS ago get brought up and used against them, even if they’ve ALREADY paid for their bad choices back then.
It’s ridiculous that people actually think they’ll get their accountability from these methods and it’s about time Fans woke up and realized that they’re plain wrong.
I enjoyed this video so much , you really hit the nail on the hammer . International fans have a lot to work on if they want companies to even bat an eye in their direction. Again you ate , another great video 💙💙.
I completely agree with your point on moving on. The worst part of them not moving on is that they act like they moved on. 'No one is talking is chaeyoung wearing #that shirt', like no, a lot of people are still talking about it. Cheyoung can't do anything and neither can ONCES without people in the quotes bringing it up. It irks me so much.
Fr I don’t support chae anymore do to that but the way people treat her for is it is disgusting she can’t do anything without some being it up she could post a pic and something sad and people will being it up like just ignore her and withdraw ur support for her and not posting a hate comment
this is exactly how i feel about minors debuting in the industry. there is so much noise from i-kpop stans about how minors shouldn't debut in an industry like kpop and how minors shouldn't even be in it at all, and yet be the same people to continue to support these groups with minors in it, stream their music, and buy their albums. you say you don't agree with minors debuting, and yet continue to give money to these companies which tell them that you're supporting them to keep debuting these young idols.
minors have always been in kpop, that is true. but just because it's always been the norm it doesn't mean that it's right and that we should continue to normalize it. the ages of these idols are getting younger and younger, and companies will keep getting away with this because kpop stans are enabling them. "ThEy HaVe GoOd MuSiC" or "tHe MeMbErS aRe TaLeNtEd," yeah, that's exactly the reason these underage idols keep appearing. yall are all bark, no bite
The definition of bunnies
I remember Jay from Enhypen getting so much backlash for saying that he prefered World History over Korean History and subsequently having to apologise. Heeseung saying the N word got nowhere as much backlash and instead more idols are getting "cancelled" for saying it. If International Knetz were just as much offended and knew when to withhold their monetary rights, the N word would be cleared from the Kpop industry's vocabulary.
Yall love black people. Always mentioning us. And kpop loves us to cause they can't stop sampling our lives. It's giving psychotic
heeseung got little to no backlash because every time black engenes tried speaking out they were “silenced” (?) with non-black people posting black people being l¥nched on weverse. it was all really gross and that’s what made me steer away from enhypen in all
@@yoshikitte OMG that's so disgusting!
@@yoshikittejesus Christ what is wrong with people
sooooo agree with you that no one actually wants accountability, they want validation and attention. you see this among soooo many chronically online people not just kpop stans it’s wildddd
ALSO! orbits are like 98% Int fans. They had no choice but to listen to us.
Okay. I am going to say this right now.
I am kind of scared of commenting and talking about a scandal that an idol was involved in. I fear that if I say something, people will say "You're biased!" That is never my intention. If I ever comment on a scandal and sound biased, that is NOT what the impression I'm trying to give off.
In saying that, I think we do need to hold idols accountable. BUT, in saying that, there needs to be a point where we are like, "Okay. You've done your time. You've sincerely apologised. Let's move on." You'll feel better doing that. It's okay if you can't listen to the idol's music anymore, by the way.
Again, this is my opinion. You guys can disagree with me if you want.
I don't want to start a war with this comment. That is not my intention. I know it has not happened yet, but I just want to make sure it doesn't happen.
I disagree. Its up to the courts. Holding an idol accountable is solely based on bias. JayPark and Bang Chan have done the same things but one is hated while one has excuses made for him. Chaeyong wore a hate symbol while Jackson Wang simply spoke up against sinophobia, and the backlash was the same.
What courts are you suggesting? Are you saying we should have a K-Pop jury ready and waiting? If so, I could go with that.
that pretty much already exists. Most fans move on and start stanning the idol again and pretending like the scandal never happened. Depending on what they did, there are always gonna be people who just aren’t comfortable supporting the idol anymore. + considering the fact that we don’t know them personally and if they actually reflected and changed rather than just waited for time to pass for the heat to go down.
not saying idols should be witch-hunted, of course, just saying there’s never gonna be a unanimous “ok, we’ll stop holding you accountable after x amount of time has passed”
Hi. Okay, so I looked up cynophobia because I didn't know what it was either. Apparently it's the fear of dogs.
Hi. If people don't feel comfortable supporting an idol for some reason, I understand. I guess as fans, we walk on this fragile line. I know I am scared that if I say I like listening to a certain group, I will get backlash. I was even worried about how people would respond to my original comment. I don't want to be cancelled.
it was so funny as an orbit seeing how exo-ls responded to exo having kicking two of their members be kicked out. instead of boycotting the group in protest to show their upset, a lot of them instead wanted to.... give them as much money as possible?? really sm would have seen this as a sign of gratitude more than anything else; a reward. it was really a shame, it could've been really cool to see a boycott take place against a big three company.
Say what you want about k-netz, but the fact that they actually hold grudges and have no problem dropping a celebrity when a real or even a ridiculous scandal happens, makes them so powerful. Look at the backlash and decrease in popularity that idols and actors face after bullying scandals and such. Orbits understood the assignment and took it a step further. Gotta admit it’s pretty astonishing.
i think part of why orbit's boycott was so powerful was because it was the company we were upset with, not the girls. orbits usually are pretty good about calling out the girls when a mistake is made, but i don't think we would've had such an effective and united approach if we weren't worried for the members' wellbeings. while i'm still amazed at how almost the entire fandom came together to completely withdraw our financial support, i don't think it's comparable to one idol doing something offensive
(if anyone feels differently i would genuinely live to hear your opinions)
Orbits got like the biggest redemption ark because out of all of theses kpop fandoms they're the one that actually did more to show that they really cared for the idols that they're a fan of by actually boycotting their awful company
1:59 this is what I been saying tho cus Koreans understand how to ruin someone. Us international to say they are cancel yet still have a bunch of hype (like people such as James Charles who is still popular despite the fact he was talking to children since especially in America our cancel culture isn’t real).
Another thing for international fans I wanted to add is the fact international have been mad and trying to cancel idols on things that are fine in Korea yet internationally fans saying it’s disrespectful in Korean culture (Ex. Wonyoung getting hate cus of the bowing situation and international fans were begging for apology even tho it’s not their culture nor do they know she didn’t even do shit)
I think another part of the issue is that ifans cannot agree upon an end goal for a boycott. When kfans are upset about someone dating someone, they break up and then the boycott is over. When they're upset about something an idol says, they go on hiatus and the boycott is over. When ifans are upset at something, there is not usually a 'fix' for the situation (you can't un-say a word or un-do cultural appropriation) other than the idol being removed from the group, which is a goal that most fans don't want and so therefore wouldn't participate in any kind of boycott. I think this is why the LOONA boycott worked- it punished the company rather than the idols, and most fans don't have the same kind of relationship with companies as they do with the actual performers. Some people do boycott idols to hold them accountable, but with the end goal being removal of a specific idol from the group, not enough fans are on board in order to actually effect anything, whether that be because they like the idol too much to get them removed or the fact that they don't think it's an issue in the first place and are willing to scream on Twitter but unwilling to do anything that would cause permanent change. And it becomes even more complex because you're right when you say people deserve the ability to grow and learn from their mistakes, but how do you organize a boycott around personal growth of a stranger? Idk this comment is really long but like...? You know?
Yay a new video by cheryl❤🎉i loved it accountability and k-pop stans don't together they value their piece of mind but hating on a idol for doing the stupidest thing is something kpop stans do with passion
its so crazy how fans will say anything and everything just to defend their idols.. a big example is idols being racist or saying the N word.. its honestly gross. They are full grown adults doing this shit, not infant's. Also thanks for the new vid!! somethimg nice to watch as i just got back froms school 😭
@@Ya-br3ixHe never said it lmfao saying this as a black person. His mouth was completely open
@@venusianssDid you not watch the video or sum 💀
Girl get over it
@@wonheelovebot I did
Reminder, our boycott is not over. As of today October 3rd 2023 bbc has claimed they have done nothing wrong and are still trying to destroy these women. Even though Loona is free, streaming will still go to bbc giving them even more revenue to put towards legal fees. Once they permanently run dry and Loona gains their royalties, that’s when the boycott is over.
Watching stay's hold idols accountable, specifically woojin, for leaving JYPE, while at the same time sending trucks to jype for better treatment for their faves is so insidious to me because jype are comfortable, knowing that none of skz will ever leave, they are probably terrified to do so. No matter how unhappy they are, they don't want stays to turn on them, the way they did Woojin. Stays have demonstrated that they lie about liking skz members, as soon as Woojin left they plotted against him, even wanting him dead.
SKZ probably feel held hostage. Theyve already expressed they are losing their love of what they do. So jype can do whatever they want to them. Because stays will continue putting money in their pocket and continue punishing the one who left, for leaving. Wasting their own money and breath.
FINALLY WE ARE GETTING PRAISED 😭😭😭
The whole “holding idols accountable” is cringe to me. It’s just mostly screaming into social media and it never reaches the idol themselves. It’s so superficial.
Dont know how tf people cant agree to your opinions, they are straight up facts for me. Its fine we dont have same pinions.
omg heyy!!
omg heyy!!
I’ll be frank I never liked Orbits all that much (loved Loona, just not their fans ;-;), but I can’t help but respect Orbits for doing what NO K-pop fan could ever do. They really stuck to their plans and did everything they could to free those girls from their evil ass company!! It’s incredible and I have to give them credit for their efforts 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
It must have been difficult to not listen to their fave group anymore, but they held on for the sake of the members, and now all of them are free! Orbits deserves good pat on the back for what they did; if I was an orbit I would be proud of myself 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
This extraordinary video should be mandatory viewing for every person on TH-cam. Actually, for every person who ever goes online. I've only been into K-pop for three months now and the fan/stan culture is very intense and difficult to understand for those, as you said, who are "on the outside, looking in."
But everything you said in this video about international fans seems to apply to social media-spread outrage in the English speaking world.
People immediately jump to conclusions without finding out more about the situation, without hearing from the other side, or even wanting to, from dredging up every accusation, allegation, rumor of negative behavior against- and confirmed mistakes of- the person in question.
Thank you very much for this powerful and insightful video! 🙏🎯🎯🎯
pls, finally someone talking abut letting idols move on!! do people actually want these idols to be horrible people? other than apologising and not doing whatever they did again, what else are they supposed to do publicly? they aren't allowed to have political opinions, so making statement donations, or sharing current issues relating to the people they hurt, which is what most public figures usually do to redeem themselves. all they can do is educate themselves and grow from their mistakes, which is something they can't show publicly with the lack of freedom they have. it irks me so much when people drag idols' past around time and time again, because the people who do that don't actually care about what the idols did wrong, they only care about having a punching bag. personally, i'd love to see a reformed min heejin, for example, who sees that sexualizing 14 year olds and naming their songs after terrorist groups isn't okay. but that's not possible if every single time people complain and then go listen to njs music. or see the idols who say the n word or wear racist shirts actually understand why they offended people without getting harrassed online. i don't want idols to be shitty people, so i don't understand why stans would rather have them stay shitty instead of letting them better themselves. either boycott the idols so they see consequenses for their actions, or shut up about it and hope they do better in the future. screaming about it, giving them more attention and then listening to their music anyway is literally the least effective way of reacting.
I'm taking one of my first steps of accountability with boycotting newjeans and I'm kinda proud of myself. After ETA was released, I realised they tried to pass off the terrorist organisation as only a story metaphor which really wasn't even a solid one. It was basically the equivalent of an aesthetic. Plus the songs all being under 3 minutes and how everyone else in kpop is following it is also something I view as problematic (you cannot tell me at least 2 of those songs couldn't have used a bridge). This was the final straw as I was always on the edge with the promotion of the underage members+the gratification of it. So I've been staying away from newjeans music and content ever since. Removed all songs from spotify. Didn't watch ANY content including mv. I think I'm doing great by myself but I only wish more people could see how problematic this is and would boycott MHJ.
Also i saw on my twt timeline they were having Minji promote an anti aging product or were talking about it lol. A 19 year old for an anti aging product cf? Kekkk
.....anyways newjeans best discography!
@@choerryontoppyay to child exploitation and supporting pedophiles, right? 🤪
I agree! I refuse to get involved, because it never leads to anything but fanwars
Crazy how the entire Kpop community was bending over backwards and threatening to boycott Hybe when cookie was dropped and now Nwjns is one of the most successful Kpop ggs. It’s laughable. People rlly are willing to turn a blind eye to child exploitation and put money in the pockets of Hybe predators just for some ringtone music
Kpop stans need how to REALLY take their idols accountable, making tweets and screaming about wouldn’t change the situation.
Loonetheboycott was actually amazing!
for example chaeyoung and that shirt, she was one of my ults, but after seeing her wearing that time and time again i had to unstan. but i've seen so many onces claim it wasn't a big deal (it was), i think people also seem to conflate a single action with their whole personality. i don't think cy is a nazi, i think she's uneducated and maybe unwilling to learn (i cannot say for sure, as there was barely an apology and i dont know what the pr team told her, or withheld from her.
You gonna support her collab with a western artists
say anything you want about orbits, but one thing about them is that they're one hell of a dedicated fandom and they genuinely do love all the girls. from trolling people in 2019 to get them to stream loona's music so they wouldn't disband to boycotting the group in order to free the girls. i've never seen another fandom this dedicated to a group and want nothing but the best for them
and also just a reminder for people out there that pls continue to boycott loona's songs & mvs when they were still in bb€. i see lots of people doing this just bcs the members are free from the company. the girls may no longer be in the company, but bb€ still earns money if you listen/watch their songs legally!
Ok but they didnt troll ppl they literally told people that their grandma died because she didn’t stan loona -
Here's my question: at what point does the punishment outweigh the crime?
-At what point is it bad enough to boycott?
-At what point is it bad enough to that even though it makes you want to personally stop supporting that performer, but not bad enough to demand that everyone else do the same?
-At what point is is necessary to do anything more than just tell them what they did wrong, ask for an apology, and move on?
-When is there an issue where both sides are being too stubborn and the most reasonable reaction is somewhere in the middle?
That last category is so difficult because people actually get _more_ entrenched in their beliefs when confronted with anything to the contrary, and it's not like we can form a committee to create a standard consensus that everyone can agree to.
becoming an orbit during the boycott was one of the hardest yet most interesting things ever to see .. watching all the girls get freed one by one from their label was so nice to see especially how hard orbits work to get everyone to stop streaming or interacting with the gg’s socials and releases. it really shows how hard fans go for their idols (stream sensitive by loossemble ..)
I think the “all publicity is good publicity” thing still depends on what the scandal itself is. A lot of people became Wonyoung stans because they saw through how stupid the hate she got was. As for Hailey, she’s not ~totally~ innocent, but the hate she receives is so completely left field that people can’t help but feel bad for and defend her - especially considering that a lot of the hate just comes from jealous Jelena fans.
Now if you look at particularly ugly controversies, like Chaeyoung’s nazi shirt and Dababy’s honophobic rants, they aren’t necessarily things that would generate enough support from the outrage they caused.
Oh my God!!! Thank you so much for this one, it's crazy how this is common sense but ppl just don't want to keep companies and idols accountable. If we weren't like this the industry would be so different
It's a horrible thing to think about but I really believe that these idols keep on making the same, offensive "mistakes" time and time again because it doesn't affect them. They don't go out of their way to educate themselves because although they might get some backlash they go on to receive full support on their next comeback. If people actually held their idols accountable - impacting their sales/income - you can bet these idols would suddenly become a lot more kind, educated and sensitive to their fans.
something tells me we will see this "orbit effect" soon with other groups
I hope so because that should happening A LOT more often than they do.
@@tolanisimpson5360 tbf some companies deserve to lose money over how they treat their artists and if it comes to this i will stop supporting my fave group if it means they will be free
@@thekneez Yep, drastic times comes with drastic measures.🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
The orbit boycott thing is what made so much of this video clear to me. Especially after I watched SM spit directly into exols and ncitizens' faces while they raked money in from album and concert sales
The amount of level headedness in this video... are you a real kpop stan!?
lmao 😂
seriously people still bring up something one of my biases did when he was literally 12 years old and later apologized for with a handwritten note both to the public AND to the victims in question - who forgave him btw. its tiring. and the way people want to be the first to jump on hate trains just cuz they read it on twitter without ANY context and then ignore people who know what they are talking about is absurd. people just want to be angry and hateful for no reason at all.
Does your bias happen to be Han Jisung?
On one hand, I see the need for fans/companies to held idols accountable for some of the stuff, for example n-wod. But I feel like it's too powerful of a tool to wield. Fans sometimes have unrealistc, harmful demands, one of the examples being wating a member removed because they are/were in a relationship (for example Rizz, Exo), wanting to remove female dancers (Enhypen), wanting to apologize for sometimes stupid/not their fault things (Woonyoung) etc. So, as much as I wish wrongs were corrected, i feel like fans demans cause more bad than good and I'm fine with fans having less infuelnce on companies/idols/groups.
ok ok so out of topic but new thumbnails look GOOD
tyty 💙
also another reason why boycotts like what orbits did won't work especially in bigger groups because fans don't want to see their groups flop in sales and charts.
Can I just say, this new intro is awesome.
it feels so nice to listen to a well spoken kpop stan with 3 digits iq keep preaching sis
Imagine all the nonsense we could have avoided if international stans took action like knets🙃
SO MANY THINGS would have changed for the better, maybe kpop companies(and kpop artists) would take international fans seriously!!
I am a shawol and moa, I have never really listened to Loona’s music... I'm so glad they're free now❤ I might listen to their music if anyone has any recommendations please let me know
Well, you do listen to quite some good music I will say. I'm personally a girl group Stan but love TXT songs and shinee have great songs as well.
I haven't listened to all of Loona's Bsides but I personally recommend these songs:
Butterfly
Universe
Satellite
Wow (sorta has a few of shinee and TXT songs vibe)
Star
They also have pre debut solos. I recommend these 3 the most:
Egoist - Olivia Hye (Goes by Hyejoo, her real name now)
Eclipse - Kim Lip (Goes by Jungeun, her real name now)
Heart Attack - Chuu (even casual listeners know this song. Most people's first loona solo)
star, curiosity and butterfly are great starts!
Hi, the ppl who is commenting recommendations: we orbits are STILL in the middle of a boycott till bbc goes into bankruptcy, so we ask to please don't stream their songs. Instead you could listen to the new Odd Eye Circle songs in their album "Version Up". They made a comeback in another company. Also please listen to Loossemble, a new group with 5 members of loona under another company too. They just dropped their new single "Sensitive" and it's really good! As well as their new mini album! Please check that out
It's great you want to learn more about loona! but the boycott is still not over unfortunately bc bbc is still in their rockers and harassing the loona members with more bogus lawsuits to this day (just lost another one like 10 minutes ago), so if you can, pirate the songs if you want to listen to them 😂
yapping and crying on social media will never work, if people want to *properly* hold idols accountable then bring that up to the label or even idol themselves and let them know how their actions negatively affect a community.
I was actually thinking that before i-netz can hold anyone accountable, we all need to get on the same page. It's like, how do you follow a rule if you don’t know what they are? How do we tell someone what upset us and how to fix it if we can't agree what was offensive and what's the correct next course of action?
OMG THE QUEEN IS BACK. HELLO CHERYL!!💗💗
LITERALLY! OMG SOMEONE NEEDED TO SAY IT!!! i'd always be so confused on tumblr when posts blow up about idols appropriating etc etc (chenle/kai's cornrows) and holding each specific idol "accountable"... like.. what are we really even talking/doing about these issues where people reblog these trendy posts about social justice and "accountability" in one post and then meme about how p*ssy popping these groups' music are in the next.. it's just an infuriating cycle, like why are we like this !!!
This reminds me of the fifty fifty thing. Like these are mostly teenage girls who do nothing all day but practice singing and dancing, rack up huge amounts of debt in slave contracts and just do what the adults around them tell them to do. Good on orbits for having their head screwed on right and not buying that Chuu was a bully or something, and understanding who the people with power axtually are in these situations.
Agreed!
Orbits, universally beloved by all, are a constant delight.
Lol we're like top 5 hated fandom
@@arain764niara fr, like if you put all k-pop fandoms together in a classroom, Orbits definitely would be the outcasted weirdo which despite being a neurodivergent, they get their shit done
Yuuuuppp blocked Loona on Spotify and listened to that podcast playlist religiously lol. Now I gotta buy the solo/unit albums and they runnin my pockets dry but I need my girlies to stay afloat ya know?😩
kpop stans are notoriously bad at putting their money where their mouth is. everyone talks until they're blue in the face about how companies should stop debuting minors, but when they get told that the only way to force companies to stop is to boycott any group that has minor member to kill the demand for minor idols (which means no newjeans, no ive, no lesserafim, etc), then everyone shifts into "nuh-uh" mode. it's gratification above all else.
This video came in perfect timing, time to share.
I may not like Yu-Gi-Oh, but the fact that she sported an anime shirt is nothing but a win in my book. ❤
Her style isn’t strange at all. She’s completely casual and not showy, which to me is way more approachable, relatable, and of course comfortable.
Love the new intro! Keep up the amazing work Cheryl
I think the reason why the loona boycott worked so well is because not only international fans worked together but also the korean fanbase aswell, in other cases when groups or idols do something wrong international fans usually bring it up and call them out, usually ending up with nothing happening. But with the loona boycott, not only international but korean aswell worked together to stop anyone from supporting anything that gave BBC money.
For real, when the Giselle saying the N-word happen, I tought is was a random old video of her, but I checked and it was recently from the official channel, I was so surprise that they did not realize this while they edit it.
as an orbit who faced the boycott and was there from the moment- it was hard. it really was. you don’t like to see people suffer, even if it’s someone you don’t know personally, or even at all.
Actually there are time limits from some crimes, for example if someone did something bad and someone saw it, has a time limit to report it, is not like you are going to sit for 30 years then comeback when you want to report someone, is like bruh!?
ISTG I keep telling people in different comment sections to (financially) boycott groups with young idols when they are complaining about their age, but that's seemingly not doable. When I said that about NewJeans I was literally told + there were videos with thousands of likes stating that "their music is too good"...like what? How washed up do your morals have to be if you choose child labor and p**dophilia over just not listening to a bunch of songs, not watching a bunch of videos and unfollowing three accounts.
Now everyone is angry about JYPE debuting a 13yo, when history has shown again and again that the outrage brings attention and kpop stans will support it anyway. Blaming everything else, but being the problem yourself.
YOUR VIDEOS R SO GOOD NEVER STOP also i wish everyone was as much as a critical and nuanced thinker of you 😭 you are so smart i love the way you look at different sides of things and all information and have the most reasonable conclusions
I just learned to not give a f
idc what yall say but,us orbits are the most loyal kpop fandom out there.
the hard truth is that non-black Kpop stans, domestic and international, do not actually care about anti-black racism in the Kpop industry. it's too rampant and wide spread, and most black Kpop stans are fully aware of this cognitive dissonance and how to navigate it. it's an industry built on ripping from black American music and aesthetics, and when we get very aggressive instances of racism from idols like slurs and blackface, it's built on top of a much larger system of constantly appropriating black American sounds and aesthetics, often in ways that reinforce racist stereotypes (how many times do we see "hard" or "sexy" eras use black hairstyles or streetwear as a visual crutch to convey "danger"). on top of that, Kpop companies do hire black American songwriters and producers to work on songs, and I am genuinely glad those folks are getting their coin, but that doesn't change the fact that the outward face of these companies (the idols themselves and celebrity executives at the top) don't include these folks, their social media reach, or their bank accounts. all this to say that when the inevitable racist controversy hits a particular idol or group, non-black stans don't see this larger system for what it is, because most of them don't care that much about anti-blackness in the wider world to begin with, let alone actually bothering to learn where it comes from and how wider systems of black oppression operate. so it becomes about semantics, it becomes a game of he-said she-said. it becomes about stan wars and stanning the "right" idol. and that's why there's never going to be any teeth coming from international stans calling out racism. anti-blackness doesn't actually mean anything to most of them outside of looking good on stan twitter, and it can be flattened out to be the same as any other controversy in Kpop. accusations of racism are only important insofar as they are useful for propping up or tearing down people's faves. you're right to say that fans don't want accountability because true accountability would include THEMSELVES and their behavior/consumer practices, not just the idols. it's the MOST all bark and no bite these stans will ever be, because actually biting back would mean questioning the entire industry, and making the folks at the top (companies, govt officials promoting soft power, etc) reconsider how South Korea's largest entertainment exports actually conduct themselves on the world stage. and frankly, I can't imagine that happening when nonblack folks can't even maintain pressure against racist institutions in their own countries (including entertainment industries). anti-blackness in Kpop will stop being tolerated when anti-blackness is actually taken seriously on a global scale.
What about Asian hate against east Asians kpop fans especially international fans black ones at that will never support Asian hate
Black influences in clothing and especially music are extremely common and have become ubiquitous in mainstream pop culture, and aren’t going away anytime soon. But if idols want to wear that style of clothes and make that type of music, they should at the bare minimum be…not racist. Giving credit is cool, but unless they were directly inspired by someone it’s more a matter of respecting and acknowledging the originators. I don’t think most idols become idols with racist intentions, but the industry still has a lot of progress to make.
In terms of the LOONA boycott and why it was so succesful, I think it's also important to consider that BBC was very clearly villainous and malicious towards the girls. Every single Orbit could agree that it was a problem because there was a staggering amount of evidence that the girls no longer wanted to be part of BBC, had unfair contracts, and Chuu had already been put through so much shit. (Fans also tend to be better at banding together against a company than against an idol)
In contrast, a lot of other KPop controversies split the fandoms that were involved. Different people agreed or disagreed on whether or not it was a problem, what the source of the problem was, and how to deal with it. You did mention this briefly, but I also think that holding such a massive movement is more difficult for international fans because we're all from different countries and cultures that have a wide array of beliefs/values.(this is especially true of any issue that is related to culture) K-netz are a lot more unified, so it's easier for them to band together on the same subject and also make good on threats, there is not nearly as much division.
In contrast, with the LOONA situation, anyone from anywhere could agree that the girls needed to get the hell out of that company or they would be in millions of dollars of debt.
That's not true at all. There were Orbits defending BBC or doubting if it was truly what the girls wanted. Initially most Korean and Japanese Orbits were not even on board with the boycott. The international fandom pulled its weight and managed to convince everyone to follow through. Orbits are the living evidence that every other fandom who fails to hold their idols accountable and help them when in need are hypocrites and cowards who make up excuses to not act. They don't really think about what is good for their idols. They are loyal to meaningless trophies, sales figures nobody will remember and other futile achievements instead of being loyal to people they love and respect.
As an orbit, thank you for this! We organized effeciently and quickly, and I hope that other kpop fans can see how we have successfully freed the girls/made change and recognize that once monetary support is taken, companies will act quicker because they need money. Its much easier said than done especially given BBC's only real promoted artist was Loona (and it would be harder for this to happen to a... say SM group) but thats not to say it doesnt work... orbits get a bad rep but one thing that has been consistent in the time ive been an orbit (since 2017) is that we can organize quickly when its necessary
Korean and Chinese fans have so much power, but they usually use it for boycotting a member for getting in a relationship or not promoting long enough 😂
I think part of the issue is a lack of faith in the system's ability or willingness to attribute a boycott or negative impact to the bottom line properly. If fans mass together and choose not to purchase, stream, watch, or otherwise consume media from a specific kpop group, they fear that instead of the message being sent reading as "You have messed up and we will not support you financially until you change your behavior" it will instead read as "We're bored and tired of this group and we don't care if you disband them". I feel as though it's every kpop stan's nightmare for their favorite groups to disband, and to many people a boycott feels like it could be helping along a company's choice to do just that. The company will instead blame the idols. The most common reason stated for disbandment is a lack of profitability, alongside demanding more money in a contract renewal or having a lack of consensus among group members if the group should continue.
Because the company has more trainees and other groups in their repertoire, they don't care which group or which idols wind up getting chopped due to their bad actions- they will simply debut a new group with new idols and run them into the ground eventually, too. So then, it becomes a battle between wanting change, but being afraid of drastic action and the resulting negative consequences. Most people, particularly the parties that haven't actually been harmed, aren't willing to risk the failure of their favorite group over a single incident. Even if the subject matter of that incident is highly important to them.
I'm usually a big advocate for speaking with your wallet and making responsible spending choices whenever possible- money talks, after all. However, I've noticed kpop labels are particularly resistant to this kind of effort. I'm sure that is at least in part due to the level of fervency in the fanbase that will continue to spend even if the entire world is crashing down, but I believe at least part of it is that there is a culture of passing the blame down the line until it reaches someone who can no longer find another person to lay the blame on. Instead of answering the dip in profits to their own actions, they accuse the idols of making some mistake- often with devastating consequences for said idols' careers. That isn't to say that the idols themselves aren't ever actually responsible, they might be, but even if they were not, the blame always eventually makes it back around to them.
I also think people just flat don't understand what parts of a kpop idol group's presentation to the public are the responsibility of which entity. I see this most often when addressing how an idol is dressed at an official event- it's like people forget that stylists exist, that the idols don't choose or sometimes even see the clothes before they're being pulled onto their bodies, that sometimes they'll get put in three or four versions of an outfit before being pushed out on stage or on camera. The same can be said for concept issues, album designs, and often times elements of the music like production, lyrics, and choreography. Uninformed stans fail to realize how much of this is actually directly controlled by the company and not by the idol. I think young fans in particular have this mental image of all the idols sharing some big fantasy closet and hand-picking what they wear, or sitting at a round table to draw the album cover concept, etc. Sometimes, that might be part of it, but usually it is not. Understanding what an idol actually has control over (For example, saying the n-word in a tiktok video! That's absolutely something they can control!) and what they do not (Offensive words in a language they don't speak well on their shirt).
Orbits was such a crazy fandom but so Genius
I think the failure of boycotting or holding accountable is mostly because even though people complain (rightfully), there are still MORE people who do not care about the issue at all. There are still MORE fans who will go hard defending their fave and calling the criticism "jealousy" (literally their only defense, sometimes).
Also, a lot of fans who genuinely want accountability from one member feel sorry for the other members so don't withold their support.
Lmao I will never not love how you title your videos