Want to Write Better Dialogue? START DOING THIS...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- What makes dialogue exciting to read? How can we keep our readers on the edge of their seat, even through long conversations between characters? In this podcast highlight of The Kate and Abbie Show, we explore the difference between strong dialogue and sloppy dialogue. Watch in real time as we revise real story examples of dialogue to create a more immersive reading experience.
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That awkward moment when their “weak examples” put your own “strong examples” to shame 😭😭😭
Don't give up! It takes years of practice to become a stronger writer and everyone has a harsh inner critic ... keep writing 🥰
That is what you want from an instructive podcast, though
I can't tell you how many times I've had conversations - both with friends and family, and others - that weren't focused on anything and still felt perfectly valid. I understand that when writing you can't have these types of conversation littered throughout the text, but I do think there is value in including nonsensical conversations to illustrate the type of relation or bond characters have.
You can always demonstrate character relationships in crucial dialog. Efficiency > word count any day.
The focus of that conversation for the writer would be to illustrate the type of relation or bond without needing to be distracted by the moonlight and type of furniture.
@@manchild3437 mmm, perhaps apples to oranges, but I also have a love of film and I saw praise given to Taika Watiti recently specifically because he makes a point of putting in moments that don't just move the plot. That's actually something I aspire to do more of, not less, giving moments without plot, moments more dedicated to characterization than just "every single scene needs to be pushing the plot of the book."
I actually feel that when I read my current writing and every scene is nothing but "push, push, push, more plot, more plot, what is happening next," it feels like it detracts from the work overall. Having slow moments that are more dedicated to relationship building and characterization rather than just getting to the next major plot point is really nice in the works I see and read, if only because it's nice to see characters that are not constantly feeling tension. To see what kinds of people they are without worrying every second of every day about the world ending ghost buggy of doom and its incessant need for vengeance.
Though I understand the point of "nonsensical conversations should have a point still." I think perhaps just crucial dialog is maybe the wrong phrase for it? Just maybe, define what your dialog is trying to do, and if what you're trying to do is show character growth or relationships and the like then that's fine even if it doesn't advance the plot. As long as the conversation still does SOMETHING.
@desertrosereads Never said I was.
Even if there is no conscious awareness to progression being made, those 'nonsensical' conversations do accomplish something. It would be another thing entirely if you had thpse conversations but all you focused on were what the tv was showing, or quietly reading the book titles on the shelves behind your friends. It's being distracted that's the problem, and it seems like that's the point they're making, to me at least. This is my opinion, obviously.
Tip: if a character is explaining something you can say something like: Ellie explained what had happened that night if you can’t think of any dialogue for it if we’ve seen that thing play out. It’s an easy way to be quicker in your writing.
Some key points to remember about dialogue. Dialogue is *action.* It is not just a thing. Every line or part that is said should have a *reason* and should be the character trying to accomplish a goal, whether to persuade, manipulate, hurt, direct, intimidate, illustrate a point, and so on. Words are tools and weapons.
Also, unless you have very specific reasons for it, dialogue should never be stilted, clunky/awkward. Always go back over your dialogue. Say it out loud. If it feels wrong, odd, forced, or hard to say... change it. Clean it up. Exceptions, of course, have to do with vernacular, the way someone/a character speaks, and voice. But overall... It should flow pretty naturally.
These are two of the big tips I give people when coaching them on dialogue. I should also add, if you are writing in a second language, try to get a native speaker who is excellent with dialogue to help you with translating or just working up your dialogue.
They always bring up exactly what we need
I love this, and I wanted to mention that Brandon Sanderson suggested an exercise for writers wanting to strengthen their dialog. You take three or more characters and try to make a cohesive, concise and effective conversation that moves a scene forward without using ANY dialog tags. It's insane, but a great exercise.
I also value looking over dialogue by my favorite writers (who are well known for their strong dialogue) and breaking it down.
I also love these two books:
The Fiction Writer's Guide to Dialogue" by John Hough Jr.
and
Dialogue for Writers by Sammie Justesen
I am a big fan of Brandon Sanderson. I have watched some of his lectures on creative writing
He mainly does fantasy fiction, which is what I focus on too
@@unicorntomboy9736 same. ❤️🔥
Where did you watch that dialogue exercise from Brandon Sanderson?
@@xiaoe6168 th-cam.com/video/HBCBpNeUfYQ/w-d-xo.html
Ironic considering that dialogues may be the weakest parts of Sanderson's books.
His worldbuilding is amazing, his consistency is fantastic, but his dialogues...meh... characters lack distinct voice, and sound pretty similar.
This video actually made me feel better about my writing. I was worried that my lack of description between dialogue was a negative thing, as I have a problem with writing non-beige prose in general, but the strong examples actually resembled my own writing style.
I used to think longer was better! This channel helped me realize length can be arbitrary, it's the meaning that matters
Timestamps:
Finding the Focus 3:43
Using Tags 8:46
Hi Abbie! I'm an author of one published novel and 2 published poetry books. I'm 22 and I wrote those books when I was 12-17. My novel got published in 2019 and my poetry books were published in January of this year. All three were self published through Amazon. I really really appreciate your content! When I began writing my first novel back in 2012, and over the years, I was doing it just for fun! I studied english, literature, and theatre in high school but you've taught me so much more than I learnt in all my years at school about how to structure my novels and write more effectively. It's definitely going to elevate my writing to the max! Thank you so, so much for all that you do. I look back at my work while watching your videos and think about what could have been better in my old stuff. From here on, after watching your content, my stories will never be the same again. I will definitely grow as a writer. I have such a passion for writing, and so many stories to tell... And lately I've been in a writing rut and haven't been doing any writing or making any progress on my editing or drafts because I feel so low. But you've really encouraged me to get back up and get back at it. Slowly but surely as I continue to listen to you, I feel encouraged to make my own writer dreams come true. I can't thank you enough. I hope you succeed at all you intend to do. You are amazing. ❤ Sending all my love, from Trinidad and Tobago. 🇹🇹
Congrats!
This wasn't about dialogue, it was about dialogue tags. I'm disappointed because I wanted to learn about writing better dialogue.
As a reader, I don’t always mind “clunky” details about the setting because it creates an atmosphere and enables me to envision where the characters are. It all depends on what the writer is trying to accomplish. Sometimes those details are good, sometimes they’re unnecessary. That’s up for the writer to decide.
I think an even tighter example would be to not repeat that it's a key. If they see it's a key, why'd they ask "What is that?"? If the MC doesn't know what something is, don't describe what it is until the MC knows.
Something glinted in his hand. /Something glinted of brass... /Something golden glinted in his hand. (Brass looks kinda golden, and if you don't know what it is, the colour might be good enough).
"What is that?"
"I think it's the key..."
@@racyrowdyrocket It was an example of how to make this example even better. It could have been about anything, the point was that you don't generally ask about something you see what it is. And that repetition isn't great (except for in certain special circumstances).
I agree that it could make it a little tighter, but I think that by asking "what is it?" she's not asking if it's a key or not, she's asking what it's for. I do that all the time, where I can clearly see what something is, but I ask "what's that?" as a clarification of things like, why is it here, what's its purpose, why do you have it, is it for me, etc.
That changed my perspective on dialogue a lot. It's interesting how it's more about what surrounds the dialogue that matters.
The examples really helped me see what you were talking about. I wouldn't have seen a lot of the errors in the weak examples otherwise, but now I'm starting to get it
I needed this. I'm trying write convincing dialogue, and not over do it.
I just ran into this last night. It was just for the discovery draft so it wasn't a big deal yet, but I introduced one character with a line of dialog, then spent the next two paragraphs explaining who she was and her connection to the narrator before putting his response to her words. It wasn't as much a case of unneeded words but more of organization of the dialog flow, but it's the same concept.
To be honest, I do write the weak one... the long descriptive parts unnecessary to the plot where I thought I was giving the idea to the readers where the characters are. I'm still rewriting everything because I want to make the plot clear and not confusing. Liked and saved! Thanks!
I had to stop and make a point to save this episode because it’s so helpful and important to creating strong dialogue and a strong scene. Thank you!
Omg!! I love this topic!! More on dialogues! I love/need/crave more knowledge on dialogues!!
To me listening to how other people talk is helpful.
Thank you Abbie, been watching a bunch of your videos. You’re insights have amazingly pushed me out of my boring, comfort zone. As a new writer, my writing has drastically changed as is becoming something more wonderful, than I could’ve of dreamed up. Thanks so much.
Great painting analogy Kate! I was a professional artist/realist painter for 11 years (before my job got automated). I've taken interest in writing because I want to write/direct some of my own films. I discovered you two through searching about story structure.
What you say here is exactly right. There are all sorts of compositional techniques that can be used to draw a viewer's eye to the subject and make the image "about" what you desire, rather than just an explosion of details.
Another analogy I think you might find interesting is what painters traditionally called the economy of means (among other names). It's basically the same idea you gave between the tight and weak examples. I'll quote from a 19th century painting manual from a master painter, famous in his time, Solomon J Solomon:
"The main thing to remember in painting is never put down two touches where one would suffice. The student invariably loses valuable time and wastes his energy in looking for little nothings and subtleties that will not repay him, and which make for *' smallness " and an over-laboured result."
Traditionally artists aimed to paint their subject in the fewest brush strokes possible. They purposely kept their shapes simple. And I'm not just talking about impressionistic art, I'm even talking about the old masters who painted more realistically. Adding insignificant details, tiny little details, little bumps, etc would take away from the focus of the image. Someone I know is a famous southwest artist, and his teacher was a famous illustrator back in the day. He always taught to keep your drawing simple: don't draw little roadmap shapes, simplify the shapes to make them elegant. If it's sort of straight, make it straight; if it's sort of curved, make it curved. No little jagged roadmap shapes. I see him do it all the time, even though anyone looking at his work would say it looks realistic, not impressionistic or very stylized
The point here being that you want to take out anything that takes away from the purpose of your image. It's not just painting what you see, it's about selecting what is important for the image and removing anything that's irrelevant or distracting.
I definitely like the "weak examples" better as a reader. It takes me somewhere. The other one is so dry. No soul.
This is why we have so many different types of writers- Because there's so many different types of writing people like. Personally for me I like to describe the environment then dive into dialogue so I can get the best of both, but I've seen a lot of writing done like the second "tighter" examples given. Sometimes, I find they move the scene too fast and I would prefer a little more description of what's going on and what they characters see/feel/think. But this is why writing is considered a form of art, as whether it's good or bad is entirely up to the one viewing it.
@desertrosereads So this might sound strange, but I usually end up glancing over any non-contextual description if the moment is less important than the description 'allows', but if I want to delve deeper out of interest in the very moment itself, shifting between different details paints a much more poetic and interesting picture for me to be intrigued in and enjoy. Anyone else?
Like in the 1st 'weak' example, it sets the situation up with a lot more polish and detail in my mind. There's this beautifully eerie ambience with the secondary focus on the moonlight and the furniture, and a sudden shift in focus to the object - a key!
Its so much more dynamic than the tighter example which lays all the facts flat and just moves past it all as if it's a normal conversation
Same. The second example took me to a dark empty room.
I feel bad, but I actually slightly disagreed on the 3rd example.
I didn't like the replacement of quiet as mice, mostly because it felt very tame and didn't feel quite as tense. It gave a sense that they were quiet but not making a point of trying to be quiet and didn't lend itself to the nervousness as well.
Also, on the 4th paragraph, I felt like taking out the line about her pausing on the staircase gripping the railing, uncertain about following and removing that entirely took out a lot of descriptive flavor from the scene.
Maybe because I'm picturing the scene differently, but I don't imagine this happening quickly? I'm picturing in my head this scene where they're actively stopped on the staircase and she's trying to urge him back to bed, not just them ascending the staircase together and her having to force herself to follow him.
Also, I'm unsure if maybe the reason I didn't like it as much just comes down to artistic differences? The writing was still excellent, I just felt like taking the flavor text out of there took lessened the scene to an extent (that may just be my taste, I grew up on Robert Jordan and Tolkien and I know they have a tendency to be a bit more verbose than most) Thank you for the excellent lesson though, I've been trying to improve my dialogue for a while, so I'm taking all this down!
Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel like books are written quite like they used to be. I'm a TH-camr, and I've been watching how content has sped up over the years, but I worry it's not just a TH-cam thing. Picking up and reading some newly published books now, the scenes feel like they're trying to move faster than older books I've read before.( Granted, I haven't read many books) Like, entertainment as a whole is just trying to move stories faster so there's less breathing room. Maybe I'm a little old school for it, but I don't particularly like it either.
I agree. There were certain details that took away from the atmosphere when they were removed.
I think if you want a scene with fast pacing, it's definitely good to cut what they did, but this scene didn't feel like it needed it.
Exactly what I needed. I never know if my dialogue makes sense to Mr because I have an image in my head, or if it wouldn't make sense to another person. Thank you!
I love how these two talk about any given topic and I’m like wow this doesn’t work for my slice of life series and in this case much of the dialogue is every day topics so people would probably ask what was the point of that.
You have no idea how motivated I get after watching your vids
The way that when you showed the strong example it IMMEDIATELY clicked.
Your "weak" examples are actually stronger for this scene. The tags create a greater sense of foreboding and make me want to read further and find out what they discovered in the attic. Your "tight" examples feel rushed and incomplete. Now..I do understand your point and will for sure take it to heart...but their are just some examples where you need a sense of foreboding. Also..it could have nothing to do with how long the tags are and more to do with the word choices. Each word has meaning, and each meaning can trigger a different response for your reader. If im sitting down to read a book..im not in a rush to complete the page. Take your time and write out each detail if it makes sense for the scene. You created suspense in your "weak" examples, and created a rush attempt at suspense..in your supposedly stronger example. However, great video overall..thank you as always.
Thanks. All my charecters talk the same…
@1:20
Clearly you've never had a convo with my mama 😂😂😂
I present to you that these seemingly pointless descriptions of moonlight and the environment can be valuable symbolism which can put the reader in a certain headspace for the scene. If it’s just filler it should be cut though
Good stuff, ladies. Thanks.
This reminds me of a story idea I had in junior high, where there are only two characters, and the entire story is a dialogue they exchange over the phone. They never meet in person, and there isn't a whole lot of need for setting description or tags, beyond twisting a phone cord (yup, I'm that old) or pacing or whatever. And trying to make sure that that dialogue remains worthy for the length of a book is sure to be a pretty big challenge. One I once described as trying to describe a painting to a blind person without them losing interest once we get to the background details.
I haven't written it yet, of course. It may never happen. But it's always on my mind.
Simple and solid examples, thank you so much!
I just realised how much I was slowing down my story with all these tags😭
Yeah...same.
Thank you for sharing your impressive viewpoints on the subject of dialogue. Streamlining Tags and Strengthening dialogue!✍👍🙏
OMG, this really helpful! Thank you so much. 😭
This is great! It will help with editing my super long novel
That podcast episode was so amazing and helpful!!!
That first example was definitely a strong example of over-extrapolation.
I love the stair part 😄 there is way to much action going on with just going up the stairs.
super helpful thank you!
*Excellent examples, but your focus seems to be on how to **_not_** write Literary.* I'm not fond of Literary, so right on with the video. FYI: I break dialog tags into two types: speech tags (saids, asks, whispers, etc) and action tags (grasped handrail, raised eyebrow, tightness in the throat, etc). Usually we don't need both in the same paragraph, but for some of your example paragraphs using both is appropriate.
*My battle is **_which_** dialog subjects to focus on.* In my latest chapter (about the 90% point in Act II) my heroine gets a chance to talk with a spirit guide. This becomes her turning point in the story. I'd made a list of what she knows and focused on what bugs her the most. I'd shuffled a few chapters around, and so a new subject was at the top of her mind. Meaning, I had to rewrite the chapter again.
In reverse chronology (last in, first out): In the previous chapter she had dinner with this completely charming man, who proposed to her and gave her a fabulous necklace, but as the date was ending he got really weird and controlling. Three chapters earlier her hospitalized best friend took a dramatic turn for the worse and might die. Finally, throughout the story she's been having recurring dreams. None of the dreams are shown, but she describes them to another character near the end of Act I.
The real goal of my scene with the spirit guide is to get to the dreams. The heroine's actions and growth depend on what the spirit guide advises her to do. Boyfriend problems and fear for her friend's survival are not compelling, but prophetic dreams? Huzzah! They are the ticket to preparing the heroine for Act III.
I've rewritten the troublesome scene several times. This is where I'm at: Heroine tells spirit guide of freaky fiancé and that she's gonna have to break up with him, but he's kinda scary. Something reminds her of best friend plight and she has a bit of a cry about that. Then she says she can't help but feel freaky fiancé is somehow involved in best friend's downfall, but every time she examines the evidence it's as if a fog clouds her mind. OMG! Is the fog really a smoke screen? Just like the smoke in her recurring dream that hides a fearsome monster who murders and devours girls? Hers is not the only POV, so the reader already knows freaky fiancé _is_ a demon-possessed shape-shifting monster who devours girls.
I suppose I could tighten up the conversation about freaky fiancé and dying best-friend, and bring up the fog/smoke connection earlier. I should also go back to the previous chapter and tighten up the scenes _with_ freaky fiancé.
Not sure why they should be going up the staircase quickly, or why the writing should get to the destination quickly. In this case (not the best example?), it's more suspenseful to forestall the reveal a few more seconds.
Leonardo's last supper focuses attention on Jesus. Jesus doesn't have a halo, but the light from the windows in the background illuminates Jesus, so you notice
Very helpful suggestions. Thank you both.
I just love this channel
The bad example with tagging reminded me about asterisks lol
YEs i love these tips
I can see what I need to fix with the dialogue, but I'm relieved to see that the weak example isn't what I do. I've worried I don't put enough in. Mine is more like the tight dialogue, but can be improved. I've always worried the weak one is the one I'm supposed to do, but it always came out awkward, so I stopped.
Ok, this is great guidance. However, this only partially works for me. I write fantasy in an Omnipresent Narrator Perspective. Luckily, my books are shorter than they would be as everything is important. To progress character development, develop the plot, and add mysterious background elements. What would you advise for my style?
I typically write scenes in third person omniscient and have been focusing on a gay couple lately. It’s Its a struggle to make it clear who’s doing what without repeating their names or using excessive tags. Any advice on how I can keep it clean and concise without the reader getting confused?
As someone who was writing scenes with only dialogs without any tags or narration (for a game or manga) I find the oposite really hard. To write the narration and tags and everything in between the dialogs. Any tips for that?
I suggest you read a lot of books that do have that and then take inspiration from them to furthermore expand your writing skills, hope this helped :)
Good stuff
Is it normal that I fell in love with the weak examples more than the strong ones😂?
Yes....I think the second example is nice but it's more simple. My readers like it when I am very descriptive.
It seems like Kate always overtakes the podcasts.
I like the dramatic descriptive version better. I wouldn't want to read something so bland.
HELP! I had a horrid experience with promoting my first novel on Insta a few years back, toxic book friend group chat type of horrid, and Im only JUST getting back into writing again because of how awful it was.
Like, if I write another original novel, I will be using a different author name - levels of not wanting *that* ever again...
How can I beta, edit, & promote books without having to deal with people? I have enough social anxiety as it is. I don't wanna give up on writing, but its looking dire.
I think you just gotta find people you can trust- I have general anxiety disorder and totally know the struggle of not trusting others, but if you can find people that will be helpful and kind about reviewing your writing, that will help a lot. Just start with one person you trust to help you out and work out from there. Please don't give up, your stories are worth telling.
My sister sent me this
tags like i hissed and james whispered are as weak as anything else in both examples. also, the action and narrative should be separate from the actual dialogue. also, the dialogue is what is in between the quotation marks. most of this was fixing non-dialogue. tags should never add anything because it takes away from the dialogue - what is actually said
I don't understand how hissed or whisper are weak. Are they not good, useful descriptors of how the characters are talking?
Also, the action is appropriately placed within the dialogue because it's either describing the speaker or the speaker's actions. It doesn't need to be separated in these examples.
@@kanrafingerguns it's the difference between serious writing done by someone who has put in the time to learn how to write and something amateurish. the focus should be the dialogue not how they said it in that line. hissed and whispered are telling not showing. the other rule just as old is dialogue gets its own paragraph.
@@nealabbott6520I don't care about how "amateurish" those words are. If someone speaks quietly, whispering, whatever I want to know it (read it, not having to guess it). I dont get why I should write/read a long sentence when it's more efficient to use the specific words. Also, "amateurish telling" might help people who struggle with understanding context and implicit information. Some readers rely on or prefer more descriptions.
First ! Luv ur vids
The weak examples are simply jampacked with telling and almost border on purple prose in terms of adjective overload and spelling out emotions instead of trusting the readers to suss them out by themselves.
The music caught me off guard
Am I the only one who feels my dialogue is too strong? All I ever do is dialogue if I’m not careful. Do you have a video for this?
"Hissed"?
Who hisses their speech?
Why not simply, "whispered."
According to "writing experts" and authors it's a "weak word" and should be avoided.
In my opinion as a reader and writer that's nonsense. Choose specific words appropriate to the situation and your writing style. That's it. Different preferences exist for a reason.
I need some help with coming up with an opening line for my high fantasy/dark fantasy protagonist, who is a warrior princess. Imagine the following scene: my protagonist is sparring with her high prince older brother in a combat training session. She is overconfident and brash but also naïve and inexperienced in the ways of the world. What line of dialogue would communicate this to the audience?
I will become the king oniichan, you can't stop me!
It sounds like you need to spend more time getting to know this character.
@@joehebert789 It's basically a mix of Disney's Frozen and Fire Emblem
Or alternatively, Disney's Frozen with an edgier, darker streak
I think it would be difficult without them directly commenting on eachother's moves, and that would perhaps be a bit too plain.
I think she definitely has to lose the fight, if you want the readers to see her as inexperienced. Perhaps have her do something absurd like insisting on dual-wielding swords (instead of using a shield like her brother) and the combat instructor comment his disapproval. Or have her do a summersault right into the brother's blade, which would tell the reader that she's physically capable, but lacks caution. This would also communicate a sense of realism about your world, you'd be telling the reader that such things would get one killed opposed to other fantasy. (If that's what you want ofc)
Also consider using descriptions to communicate this about her. For example in the story I've been trying to write, the protagonist would be described as having a broken lip, that'd tell you she likes to get into fights, without actually showing it.
@@theM4R4T Those are interesting points. I'll take them into consideration
My main conflict is that my protagonist is born with the curse of turning into a dragon. However she cannot control this at will and happens whenever she shows strong enough emotions.
Basically I am trying to do something akin to Disney's Frozen but with a edgier, darker streak, in addition to mixing in Fire Emblem Awakening, as I said above.
Surprising this video came up when I wrote scene where a character does a manuver in a fight that is unusual using a power that the character prior only used for long distance moves during a close distance.
When writing the characters being surprised I noticed it feels more like what hardcore fans may want to see discussed but in my critical mind tells me "Aren't you making a bigger deal out of it than it actually is?" or "You are ruining this scene for the readers. Let them have their own thoughts instead.". But the other part of me thinks "Well, it wouldn't be noteworthy if there is no reaction by her allies to that unusual manuver."
But seeing the video, I think the examples and intension were discussing something different.
I started a story like this (below) and I have found that it really annoyed some people to not know who's talking. But others think it's fine. But it annoyed others so much, that they in the comments in the end of the chapter were like: "It was hard to know who said what when there weren't any tags so often". Like, it's a few lines, and immediately after it's described who they are and where they are. XD What do you guys think? I have removed their names here.
'Why's it so hot?'
'Don't care.'
'Why are you such a bore?'
Person 1 gave a gleeful, high-pitched chortle. 'Just deal with it, pointy-ears.'
'I don't have pointy ears! Stop calling me that, you stinky pile of fur.'
They looked at each other, then burst out laughing.
'This trip really stinks,' Person 2 whined again after a moment's silence.
'Mhm.'
ben shapiro can play a character, now.
"We promised 'that' ?
You should never use the word 'that' in this way in dialog.
"whispered unsteadily" ? Why describe a line of dialog with a verb followed by an adverb? If dialog is to be described it should be described before the dialog with an action to enhance the dialog. Otherwise all the dialog will sound corny - like this dialog.
Gotta be the most productive 14 minutes I've spent in awhile. Would you say that descriptions are okay if you can come up with something truly interesting to describe, IE something an experienced reader wouldn't have subconsciously imagined if you hadn't described it that isn't just an inconsequential detail?
First
Congrats. Where can we send your award?
@@soletmegetthisstraight2099 lol
@@soletmegetthisstraight2099 You’re not gonna believe this everyone but I was the FIRST (not the second or any higher number) person to comment on this video!
So you're gonna show us -- not tell us.