It's absolutely ridiculous how 30-40 year old dilapidated trains still function better than the newest units out the factory. The Brush 465 was considered a disgrace back in the day, but the teething troubles and unreliability of the CAFs, Aventras (especially the 701) and 700s make the Brush 465 look good. Since when did we allow our standards to drop SO LOW? I'm confused.
Easiest thing to point fingers at. Chunkier bulkier trains are reinforced and have less technology to fix up. Using older methods with more expensive methods. Digital trains are like paper machet with technology used to try and diagnose the issues and patch them up temporarily until they break down again. Class 730s seem to have better ride quality than all aventras so far.
@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf it was a cheap alternative. Electrostars could have been made lighter and still have mods implemented to make them more metro suited. I.e the open gangways. And they could have taken more time to design a sturdier inner frame bogie for the unpowered cars and invest time in an outer frame bogie that holds the more robust and powerful motors. outer frame bogies dont need to be super heavy at all, it's just the cheap quick alternative methods they used to make aventras with inner framed bogies that take less time to adapt as they are thinner by default. So again an electrostar with modernised features to reduce weight but keep them reliable . Class 387s shouldn't have been the last electrostars. They should have made an electrostar 3 keeping some older elementa but adding improved elements in other ways. They could have used the class 377 and 379 model with specialised sub classes for further experimention. Again Hypothetical example Class 377/8 Similar to class 377/6 and 7 Adapted features . Smaller igbts like on the class 378s .lower motor gear ratio to achieve 100mph faster (like on the 378s) .inner framed bogies uaed as an unpowered bogiesl to have adequate suspension and applied to it. .Motor bogies modified to be lighter but still use the same powerful electrostar motors but also still outer framed. Make more roomy interiors for standing room removing unnecessary walls and padding to enable more space for seating and passenger sganding room. .updated tech .Open gangways with less clunky modelling. Modifying body frame to make it lighter without the need to completely change the entire body shell. Again taking into consideration passenger comfort .
Newer trains are not built to the same quality as older trains like 455s,456s, etc and I don't see it ever changing, for the foreseeable future we are going to have worst trains like 701s and we most likely will have more cancellations and delays, take FirstGroup for example they've already given up with SWR due to their contract expiring next year so they aren't really bothered about it.
To be honest the '00s generation (357, 350) was even better than the '80s/'90s generation (455, 465) but yeah the new generation is so unreliable. Worse than the Brush 465. It's frustrating
@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf Well the 507s and 508s had better ride quality and better seats than the 777s. The only good thing about the 777s is level boarding and quick acceleration
@@awesometrainsandbuses The acceleration is helpful for journey times to be fair but it's ridiculous. How are they (the 777s) nastier inside than 40 year old trains? Ridiculous.
Boring is the wrong word, but it's a bad train. Everything about it screams LAZINESS - they thought that bland, uncomfortable interior and the awful ride was suitable for 2.5 hour services? Ridiculous man
@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf yeah that too, but i mean boring is also a factor. The design is dull ambiance shit. It makes the ride more intollerable. The motor sounds arent as important but ruin the vibe when their too quiet and dull. Theres nothing keeping you stimulated is what i mean. Its just ...bland to the point where your actually suffering🤣 When you have a train thats uncomfortable but also boring, it enhances the level of suffering one goes through on an already rushed train. Thats what i mean.
@@bb-3653 I disagree. Having quieter trains is good. Train fans or whatever might not like it, but 99% of people don't ride trains for the experience but to get from point A to B as efficiently and as comfortably as possible. Ambiance helps but it's certainly one of the lower priorities when it comes to transit. You can look out the window to keep yourself stimulated. Don't really see why you need motor sounds to keep things not dull. Nowadays plenty of people just listen to music, or look at their phones, read etc. A louder train means people are forced to turn up volume on their earbuds which isn't good for hearing. Loud trains aren't good for hearing either. In every practical metric, quieter trains is just better.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 i further disagree. I can use all your points in the opposite direction. Firstly the idea that most passengers are on their phones and the motors will cause them to turn the volume up. This isnt the reason they have their phones on , alot of passengers want stimulation in their own way . Secondly, not all people have the same requirements for "stimulation". So telling me or anyone "theres just windows look out of it" aint always gonna cut it because sometimes background noise whether consciously or unconsciously helps to keep some people distracted, occupied or at ease. Motors arent loud enough on modern trains to cause passengers to "put their headphones up in volume" as most trains are quiet. The motors are just audiable enough to still hear. My point is, there are quirks /sounds , extra layered things in life that we can appreciate and enjoy and motor sounds feature in this. Music is quirky thing humans do. It involves sounds in rythm. It isnt nesseccery for life but it sure makes it feel good! You sort of also prove my point with your statement regarding "passengers want to travel from A to B so arent focused on motor sounds" . Good ! and to add to that they generally arent bothered by minor sounds whether its the whirring of the Air conditioning or the electronic buzzing or whirring of other on board equipment if anything that adds to tbe ambiance of the experience. Truth be told theres a phenomena surrounding humans being uncomfortable in super quiet environments. I can make the argument that all electrical components are too loud and that we should sound dampen them too. But that doesent happen, why? Because it doesent exceed enough decibles to cause major issue this includes alot of modern trains. Truth is most passengers are likely more bothered by excessive track noise or wind as opposed to motor sounds as motors arent that loud to begin with, and any article or paper refrencing train noise is usually reffering to the track and wheel vibrations that echoes across the environment. Whereas motors can still be audiable and be within a comfortable range of decibles . In summary all im saying is that not everything needs to be looked at through this lense of hyper improvement to things that never really needed them beyond a certain point. Whilst we can always improve things that are of major importance, human beings are inherently not that efficient in all areas, and often find certain things that arent practical , very very satisfying. Its the same reason people like car noise to a mild degree or even a washing machine sound..its just our nature, we are weird. So this idea of "practical in all all areas" isnt always nesseccery. And with motor noises, this isnt always related to rail fans, many normie passengers who may hear motors may find it intriguing or satisfying consciously or unconsciously. Its the same reason some people like mild noise in their electric cars. Thats where my point stands. Theres a reason thousands of people watch train or car or even plane vids. Its satisfying. Its like an ASMR on the go. My argument is not to randomly implement sound, my argument revolves around not caring too much to "fix" things that werent broken to begin with and that arent the most important part of the train, snd that leaving it in as an enjoyable quirk for alot of people. Even non rail fans.
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It's absolutely ridiculous how 30-40 year old dilapidated trains still function better than the newest units out the factory. The Brush 465 was considered a disgrace back in the day, but the teething troubles and unreliability of the CAFs, Aventras (especially the 701) and 700s make the Brush 465 look good. Since when did we allow our standards to drop SO LOW? I'm confused.
Easiest thing to point fingers at.
Chunkier bulkier trains are reinforced and have less technology to fix up. Using older methods with more expensive methods.
Digital trains are like paper machet with technology used to try and diagnose the issues and patch them up temporarily until they break down again.
Class 730s seem to have better ride quality than all aventras so far.
Idk I've not been on a 730 but the 701 and 720 are pretty awful/poor. 345s very hit-and-miss. Half are OK, half ride awfully.
@@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf it was a cheap alternative. Electrostars could have been made lighter and still have mods implemented to make them more metro suited. I.e the open gangways. And they could have taken more time to design a sturdier inner frame bogie for the unpowered cars and invest time in an outer frame bogie that holds the more robust and powerful motors. outer frame bogies dont need to be super heavy at all, it's just the cheap quick alternative methods they used to make aventras with inner framed bogies that take less time to adapt as they are thinner by default.
So again an electrostar with modernised features to reduce weight but keep them reliable . Class 387s shouldn't have been the last electrostars. They should have made an electrostar 3 keeping some older elementa but adding improved elements in other ways. They could have used the class 377 and 379 model with specialised sub classes for further experimention.
Again
Hypothetical example
Class 377/8
Similar to class 377/6 and 7
Adapted features
. Smaller igbts like on the class 378s
.lower motor gear ratio to achieve 100mph faster (like on the 378s)
.inner framed bogies uaed as an unpowered bogiesl to have adequate suspension and applied to it.
.Motor bogies modified to be lighter but still use the same powerful electrostar motors but also still outer framed.
Make more roomy interiors for standing room removing unnecessary walls and padding to enable more space for seating and passenger sganding room.
.updated tech
.Open gangways with less clunky modelling.
Modifying body frame to make it lighter without the need to completely change the entire body shell. Again taking into consideration passenger comfort .
Newer trains are not built to the same quality as older trains like 455s,456s, etc and I don't see it ever changing, for the foreseeable future we are going to have worst trains like 701s and we most likely will have more cancellations and delays, take FirstGroup for example they've already given up with SWR due to their contract expiring next year so they aren't really bothered about it.
To be honest the '00s generation (357, 350) was even better than the '80s/'90s generation (455, 465) but yeah the new generation is so unreliable. Worse than the Brush 465. It's frustrating
@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf for now we just have to see what the future holds for us.
I prefer the 507s and 508s to the 777s
Never been on either
@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf Well the 507s and 508s had better ride quality and better seats than the 777s. The only good thing about the 777s is level boarding and quick acceleration
@@awesometrainsandbuses The acceleration is helpful for journey times to be fair but it's ridiculous. How are they (the 777s) nastier inside than 40 year old trains? Ridiculous.
Also newer trains are BORING. 700s being the worst .
Boring is the wrong word, but it's a bad train. Everything about it screams LAZINESS - they thought that bland, uncomfortable interior and the awful ride was suitable for 2.5 hour services? Ridiculous man
@SolomonClarkeTrains-nw1sf yeah that too, but i mean boring is also a factor. The design is dull ambiance shit. It makes the ride more intollerable. The motor sounds arent as important but ruin the vibe when their too quiet and dull. Theres nothing keeping you stimulated is what i mean. Its just ...bland to the point where your actually suffering🤣
When you have a train thats uncomfortable but also boring, it enhances the level of suffering one goes through on an already rushed train. Thats what i mean.
@@bb-3653 I see what you mean now yeah
@@bb-3653 I disagree. Having quieter trains is good. Train fans or whatever might not like it, but 99% of people don't ride trains for the experience but to get from point A to B as efficiently and as comfortably as possible.
Ambiance helps but it's certainly one of the lower priorities when it comes to transit. You can look out the window to keep yourself stimulated. Don't really see why you need motor sounds to keep things not dull. Nowadays plenty of people just listen to music, or look at their phones, read etc. A louder train means people are forced to turn up volume on their earbuds which isn't good for hearing. Loud trains aren't good for hearing either. In every practical metric, quieter trains is just better.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 i further disagree. I can use all your points in the opposite direction. Firstly the idea that most passengers are on their phones and the motors will cause them to turn the volume up. This isnt the reason they have their phones on , alot of passengers want stimulation in their own way . Secondly, not all people have the same requirements for "stimulation". So telling me or anyone "theres just windows look out of it" aint always gonna cut it because sometimes background noise whether consciously or unconsciously helps to keep some people distracted, occupied or at ease. Motors arent loud enough on modern trains to cause passengers to "put their headphones up in volume" as most trains are quiet. The motors are just audiable enough to still hear. My point is, there are quirks /sounds , extra layered things in life that we can appreciate and enjoy and motor sounds feature in this. Music is quirky thing humans do. It involves sounds in rythm. It isnt nesseccery for life but it sure makes it feel good!
You sort of also prove my point with your statement regarding "passengers want to travel from A to B so arent focused on motor sounds" . Good ! and to add to that they generally arent bothered by minor sounds whether its the whirring of the Air conditioning or the electronic buzzing or whirring of other on board equipment if anything that adds to tbe ambiance of the experience. Truth be told theres a phenomena surrounding humans being uncomfortable in super quiet environments. I can make the argument that all electrical components are too loud and that we should sound dampen them too. But that doesent happen, why? Because it doesent exceed enough decibles to cause major issue this includes alot of modern trains. Truth is most passengers are likely more bothered by excessive track noise or wind as opposed to motor sounds as motors arent that loud to begin with, and any article or paper refrencing train noise is usually reffering to the track and wheel vibrations that echoes across the environment. Whereas motors can still be audiable and be within a comfortable range of decibles .
In summary all im saying is that not everything needs to be looked at through this lense of hyper improvement to things that never really needed them beyond a certain point. Whilst we can always improve things that are of major importance, human beings are inherently not that efficient in all areas, and often find certain things that arent practical , very very satisfying. Its the same reason people like car noise to a mild degree or even a washing machine sound..its just our nature, we are weird. So this idea of "practical in all all areas" isnt always nesseccery. And with motor noises, this isnt always related to rail fans, many normie passengers who may hear motors may find it intriguing or satisfying consciously or unconsciously. Its the same reason some people like mild noise in their electric cars. Thats where my point stands. Theres a reason thousands of people watch train or car or even plane vids. Its satisfying. Its like an ASMR on the go.
My argument is not to randomly implement sound, my argument revolves around not caring too much to "fix" things that werent broken to begin with and that arent the most important part of the train, snd that leaving it in as an enjoyable quirk for alot of people. Even non rail fans.