I just recieved my DF64 Gen 2 today from you guys, and I must say what a big difference from the Breville Oracle grinder! Single dosing is the best for home and the hopper are the best for Cafes. Single dosing are also good for decaf coffee for small coffee shops, so you wont have to mix them together and the request of decafe is quite smaller than general.
It took me a while to get my Niche zero to zero retention. No bellows needed, but tapping with the flat hand, as you showed with the hopper model, really does the job.
DF54 vs VS3 for mixed coffee use is the big question IMO, as a lot of beginner coffee people are looking to upgrade from high-end hand grinders. So budget conscious but not wanting to risk buying an electric grinder that makes a worse cup than the hand grinder!
Very good point 👌 The Safe bet is the Varia VS3, yet this may be a stretch to a budget. Very keen to get my hands on a DF54 for side-by-side. No definite ETA at this stage to AUS. Flair have done it, Varia did it, and Comandante has one >> Electric Hand Grinders - whether it's an attachment or cradle. Good segway perhaps?
@Mandragara: Totally. They’re the two I’m looking at to: replace my now dead Breville 450XL; and supplement my J-MAX. From what I understand, the VS3, particularly with the Hypernova Ultra burrs($510CAD combined), leans toward clarity for a conical, while the DF54 ($330CAD) with the stock DLC burrs tends to lean away from clarity for a flat. Do they meet in the middle? I currently brew ibrik, espresso, moka, Aeropress and drip with a Pulsar. I’m looking to explore more clarity in my brewing, particularly for the Aeropress and the Pulsar. The DF54 is, I think, likely to get aftermarket burr options in the future but that is certainly not guaranteed. And if they do, what is the likely cost? I’m not sure what to do. To make things more “interesting,” the DF64 is currently being offered, by two sellers here in Canada, for $420CAD, which is $180 off. But I have to factor SSP burs for it are $200CAD a set. Ugh! As an aside, it really annoys me that if I want the VS3 with upgraded burrs, I have to buy one with the stock burrs and buy the upgraded burrs separately. Why not offer them with whatever burrs you want, and just pay the difference?
That’s a great point about the VS3. I can only imagine at the warehouse point of shipment- unboxing, swapping out burrs and reboxing/shipping would cause large delays and also void new product warranty for the end user. Plus then the distribution would be left with a large pile of default burrs lol 😂 yet, if the manufacturer did this it would work
Does a Breville Oracle with a faulty steam boiler count as a single dose grinder? Coz that’s what we are using ours for for the next couple of weeks. Till the new Oracle arrives.
@@AlternativeBrewing it’s actually not a bad grinder I get really consistent espresso shots but I do finish it off with a distributor and a MiiCoffee level tamp. Plus the shots out of the working Oracle are really good. Much better than the Rocket Giotto we had about 18 years ago and the Mazzer Mini grinder.
Sorry I am new to coffee, been wanting to ask when does diminishing return take place? Like how is Lagom P64 differs from Niche Zero? And how is it different from Lagom P100?
How interesting. I've got a Eureka Specialita, exactly the same as the one that on this video deposited what appears to be a huge amount of "retained" grounds after being whacked on the top. I've had it for about 4 years now and and am very happy with it. I grind single doses with it every day. Strangely enough I've never noticed that my first brew of the day tastes a "little off" because my Eureka actually doesn't retain anything like the amount demonstrated here. I've just replicated the whacking of the top (cupped hand to blow air down the chamber) and collection of the grounds retained and using the same set of mini digital "dealer" scales I measure my 20g shot with, I found that the small amount of coffee that came out weighed less than 0.1g. That is, the amount was so small it wouldn't register on the scales. So, the chances of it influencing my tasting of a 20g shot, in my humble opinion, is unlikely. Therefore I call BS on this whole marketing ploy, because that's all it is.
Thank you!!!!! The coffee community needs more comments like this. So much marketing B.S. so so so much b.s. Wheres the integrity. To say 1% ( 20 gram dose with .2 grams.of previous retention) makes a differemce is 1 of the many BS myths in coffee. Yea maybe keeping coffee fresh in a oneway canister is better than letting coffee oxidize in a hopper is one thing but freshness in coffee from extreme lack of previous rention is bogus. MARKETING GIMMICK 101. Plus why doesnt any reviewer use a jeweler scale at .01g precision. They want to claim the ampunt thats retained, then use a scale that mpre precise.
Hey Tony, thanks for your input. It's appreciated. Apologise if I were misrepresenting any grinder here. Certainly wasn't wanting to point any specific Grinders out as being bad. Just using Hoppered Grinder as the contrast to Single Dosing Grinder - which we may have different opinions on - I don't believe Single Dosing is a marketing ploy - though there does seem like a tonne of Single Dose Grinders on the market now, each promises new and exciting things. If you're experiencing Single Dosing with a Hoppered Grinder, that's fantastic! Eureka are a better brand Grinder than most for the shortened Grinds Chutes. Anywhere from 0.5g and upwards is what I would consider poor retention - yet, there's also known to me something called Grind-exchange - where's it's retention - but is also exchanged in every dose ground out. In my experience, If this 0.5g or more effects the shots run time - than it's likely it will affect the taste of the shot too. The BROLL in the video - FWIW was a little more dramatic than I suppose was necessary to make a point. That is Single Dosing is better overall than keeping beans in a hopper and grinding out that way.
Why do most Aussie coffee channels talk about coffee like coffee is predominately espresso?? I have owned over 10 cafes in my life, plus 1 commercial roastery. And here’s the thing, espresso isnt the only coffee style people drink. And I am not talking about short blacks as espresso - I’m talking about coffee made on an espresso machine. Espresso coffee is just one of many ways to brew. So back to my boast about having owned 10 cafes - this was for context - I know espresso and I know coffee and here’s the thing - espresso is so passé so done to death - and here is a stat worth thinking about. There are around 54,000 cafes in Australia. How many of those 54,000 have an espresso machine? The answer? 54,000. This is a poor and unfortunate pointer to how undervalued the art of making world renowned coffees in cafes has reached in this our so called “coffee culture” The only culture here is this Italian throwback and this ease and convenience of making money off the back of the most simple method. Yep, leave it to a complex machine that does almost everything for you, heats the water, pumps it through a set of parameters and all the while all the barrister err sorry barista, needs to do it is follow the playbook. I’m a mokapot lover, Mokapots are complex little imps, so when you nail a mokapot coffee you reach heights that a $20,000 robot (automatic coffee machine / aka espresso machine) can only dream of. Espresso coffee? 54,000 cafes all serving a dark bitter emulsion that needs milk to temper it’s anger and a reason to charge $5. And don’t get me started on Latte Fart! We’ve invented a way to glamourise the “look” of the coffee (presumably to get more likes) by adding swans and tulips which do nothing for the overal enjoyment. Did we forget that steaming milk separates the fat solids to create that micro foam? And so what that it leaves a lovely mouth feel in the beginning, what about that watery loveless milk at the end of the cup?? > Yawn to latte art X2! Ps. I also drink Cezve, Greek or Turkish coffee the oldest and most original brewing method on earth - one small pot, ground coffee, water and a human, now we’re in really cool and different territory and it’s just so satisfying. You can keep your espresso. Rant over 😂
👏 You're not wrong. It's true - Aussies only consider coffee to be either Instant / Nespresso Pods or Espresso Machine made coffee. When talking about Espresso, and addressing my audience of Aussie viewers, although a majority of them will be adding 12oz of hot foamed milk to the espresso and more than most, not taste the balances of straight espresso's sweet, bitter, sour and acidity - I like to think by making the best Espresso you can - you'll discover the best coffee whether with or without milk. FWIW a small portion of cafe owners in Australia, perhaps not all 54,000 of them - are passionate coffee people who want to educate the consumer and explore ways people can - enjoy and appreciate coffee beyond its very wake-me-up before work version. I look to Scandinavian countries as the version of enjoying coffee that I'd like to get to 🫶 less about espresso - it's batch coffee, enjoyed in the company with others.
I just recieved my DF64 Gen 2 today from you guys, and I must say what a big difference from the Breville Oracle grinder! Single dosing is the best for home and the hopper are the best for Cafes.
Single dosing are also good for decaf coffee for small coffee shops, so you wont have to mix them together and the request of decafe is quite smaller than general.
Thanks for sharing. So true 🙌
It took me a while to get my Niche zero to zero retention. No bellows needed, but tapping with the flat hand, as you showed with the hopper model, really does the job.
DF54 vs VS3 for mixed coffee use is the big question IMO, as a lot of beginner coffee people are looking to upgrade from high-end hand grinders. So budget conscious but not wanting to risk buying an electric grinder that makes a worse cup than the hand grinder!
Very good point 👌 The Safe bet is the Varia VS3, yet this may be a stretch to a budget. Very keen to get my hands on a DF54 for side-by-side. No definite ETA at this stage to AUS. Flair have done it, Varia did it, and Comandante has one >> Electric Hand Grinders - whether it's an attachment or cradle. Good segway perhaps?
@Mandragara: Totally. They’re the two I’m looking at to: replace my now dead Breville 450XL; and supplement my J-MAX. From what I understand, the VS3, particularly with the Hypernova Ultra burrs($510CAD combined), leans toward clarity for a conical, while the DF54 ($330CAD) with the stock DLC burrs tends to lean away from clarity for a flat. Do they meet in the middle? I currently brew ibrik, espresso, moka, Aeropress and drip with a Pulsar. I’m looking to explore more clarity in my brewing, particularly for the Aeropress and the Pulsar. The DF54 is, I think, likely to get aftermarket burr options in the future but that is certainly not guaranteed. And if they do, what is the likely cost? I’m not sure what to do. To make things more “interesting,” the DF64 is currently being offered, by two sellers here in Canada, for $420CAD, which is $180 off. But I have to factor SSP burs for it are $200CAD a set. Ugh!
As an aside, it really annoys me that if I want the VS3 with upgraded burrs, I have to buy one with the stock burrs and buy the upgraded burrs separately. Why not offer them with whatever burrs you want, and just pay the difference?
That’s a great point about the VS3. I can only imagine at the warehouse point of shipment- unboxing, swapping out burrs and reboxing/shipping would cause large delays and also void new product warranty for the end user. Plus then the distribution would be left with a large pile of default burrs lol 😂 yet, if the manufacturer did this it would work
SD is the best! Well done Josh thanks buddy for another very informative content 🎉🎉🎉 also that v60 brewed looks yummy 😅
Thanks for watching mate 🫶
I love my DF64 I got from you, same as he one in this video
Does a Breville Oracle with a faulty steam boiler count as a single dose grinder? Coz that’s what we are using ours for for the next couple of weeks. Till the new Oracle arrives.
🤣🤣🤣 I guess
@@AlternativeBrewing it’s actually not a bad grinder I get really consistent espresso shots but I do finish it off with a distributor and a MiiCoffee level tamp. Plus the shots out of the working Oracle are really good. Much better than the Rocket Giotto we had about 18 years ago and the Mazzer Mini grinder.
Sorry I am new to coffee, been wanting to ask when does diminishing return take place?
Like how is Lagom P64 differs from Niche Zero? And how is it different from Lagom P100?
That's a big question - hope I can make a video about this 🫶
How interesting. I've got a Eureka Specialita, exactly the same as the one that on this video deposited what appears to be a huge amount of "retained" grounds after being whacked on the top. I've had it for about 4 years now and and am very happy with it. I grind single doses with it every day. Strangely enough I've never noticed that my first brew of the day tastes a "little off" because my Eureka actually doesn't retain anything like the amount demonstrated here. I've just replicated the whacking of the top (cupped hand to blow air down the chamber) and collection of the grounds retained and using the same set of mini digital "dealer" scales I measure my 20g shot with, I found that the small amount of coffee that came out weighed less than 0.1g. That is, the amount was so small it wouldn't register on the scales. So, the chances of it influencing my tasting of a 20g shot, in my humble opinion, is unlikely. Therefore I call BS on this whole marketing ploy, because that's all it is.
Thank you!!!!! The coffee community needs more comments like this. So much marketing B.S. so so so much b.s.
Wheres the integrity. To say 1% ( 20 gram dose with .2 grams.of previous retention) makes a differemce is 1 of the many BS myths in coffee.
Yea maybe keeping coffee fresh in a oneway canister is better than letting coffee oxidize in a hopper is one thing but freshness in coffee from extreme lack of previous rention is bogus. MARKETING GIMMICK 101. Plus why doesnt any reviewer use a jeweler scale at .01g precision. They want to claim the ampunt thats retained, then use a scale that mpre precise.
Hey Tony, thanks for your input. It's appreciated. Apologise if I were misrepresenting any grinder here. Certainly wasn't wanting to point any specific Grinders out as being bad. Just using Hoppered Grinder as the contrast to Single Dosing Grinder - which we may have different opinions on - I don't believe Single Dosing is a marketing ploy - though there does seem like a tonne of Single Dose Grinders on the market now, each promises new and exciting things.
If you're experiencing Single Dosing with a Hoppered Grinder, that's fantastic! Eureka are a better brand Grinder than most for the shortened Grinds Chutes. Anywhere from 0.5g and upwards is what I would consider poor retention - yet, there's also known to me something called Grind-exchange - where's it's retention - but is also exchanged in every dose ground out. In my experience, If this 0.5g or more effects the shots run time - than it's likely it will affect the taste of the shot too. The BROLL in the video - FWIW was a little more dramatic than I suppose was necessary to make a point. That is Single Dosing is better overall than keeping beans in a hopper and grinding out that way.
Why do most Aussie coffee channels talk about coffee like coffee is predominately espresso??
I have owned over 10 cafes in my life, plus 1 commercial roastery. And here’s the thing, espresso isnt the only coffee style people drink. And I am not talking about short blacks as espresso - I’m talking about coffee made on an espresso machine. Espresso coffee is just one of many ways to brew.
So back to my boast about having owned 10 cafes - this was for context - I know espresso and I know coffee and here’s the thing - espresso is so passé so done to death - and here is a stat worth thinking about. There are around 54,000 cafes in Australia. How many of those 54,000 have an espresso machine? The answer? 54,000. This is a poor and unfortunate pointer to how undervalued the art of making world renowned coffees in cafes has reached in this our so called “coffee culture” The only culture here is this Italian throwback and this ease and convenience of making money off the back of the most simple method. Yep, leave it to a complex machine that does almost everything for you, heats the water, pumps it through a set of parameters and all the while all the barrister err sorry barista, needs to do it is follow the playbook. I’m a mokapot lover, Mokapots are complex little imps, so when you nail a mokapot coffee you reach heights that a $20,000 robot (automatic coffee machine / aka espresso machine) can only dream of. Espresso coffee? 54,000 cafes all serving a dark bitter emulsion that needs milk to temper it’s anger and a reason to charge $5. And don’t get me started on Latte Fart! We’ve invented a way to glamourise the “look” of the coffee (presumably to get more likes) by adding swans and tulips which do nothing for the overal enjoyment. Did we forget that steaming milk separates the fat solids to create that micro foam?
And so what that it leaves a lovely mouth feel in the beginning, what about that watery loveless milk at the end of the cup?? > Yawn to latte art X2!
Ps. I also drink Cezve, Greek or Turkish coffee the oldest and most original brewing method on earth - one small pot, ground coffee, water and a human, now we’re in really cool and different territory and it’s just so satisfying. You can keep your espresso. Rant over 😂
👏 You're not wrong. It's true - Aussies only consider coffee to be either Instant / Nespresso Pods or Espresso Machine made coffee. When talking about Espresso, and addressing my audience of Aussie viewers, although a majority of them will be adding 12oz of hot foamed milk to the espresso and more than most, not taste the balances of straight espresso's sweet, bitter, sour and acidity - I like to think by making the best Espresso you can - you'll discover the best coffee whether with or without milk. FWIW a small portion of cafe owners in Australia, perhaps not all 54,000 of them - are passionate coffee people who want to educate the consumer and explore ways people can - enjoy and appreciate coffee beyond its very wake-me-up before work version. I look to Scandinavian countries as the version of enjoying coffee that I'd like to get to 🫶 less about espresso - it's batch coffee, enjoyed in the company with others.