Thank you for a truly outstanding review, EXACTLY what I was looking for! Daring to start by declaring the target audience and a direct hint at what to chose is the PERFECT way to help viewers with what they are searching for. In all honesty, one of the most intelligent and best films I have ever seen on TH-cam. And yes, I was deciding between the Breville (aka "Sage" in Sweden) and the Fellow and your conclusions matched my own perfectly. A slight edge to the Opus :)
Yes! And yet i still watched the whole video. Reminds me of movies where they kill off the main character and the movie is still amazing. Goes to show giving the results does not ruin the video!
I’m very confused though, the ESP ends up being his favourite in terms in taste and says it’s more versatile then the breville but yet it comes last in his rankings at the start. On top of that he says Opus is not as consistent as the others.
Thanks for starting off with your overall pick. It really freed up my mind to enjoy and focus on the details of the video. Wish more creators did this.
The fact that you tested all the machines without editing and cuts is awesome. Big part of a grinder for me is the sound. Crazy I know but early mornings with a full house means it can be a deal breaker.
Sound Along with much lower retention and static issues than many competitors under the $500 mark. It was a long-term investment for me and I also wanted something that could grind everything kind of like the smart grinder Pro. In fact I was benchmarking between the SGP and Niche zero and I just decided to splurge and enjoy less hassle. It's been 10 months and I just am now cleaning my nature zero. I pushed it on purpose and I kept checking it and I just didn't clean it out. I put really high quality coffee through it of a medium or traditional espresso roast which I understand is a little bit lighter than it used to be and I really love it. Almost no build up of any kind and the retention through a midwest winter was nil. About a minute or two after I finish grinding, I would just flap the lid and the rest of the grinds would fall out
The Baratza ESP has the high end M2 burrs. Conical or flat burrs is personal taste, but we wanted the M2 burrs. Shims were not necessary owing to the very wide range of settings
13:28 Perhaps the inconsistency in the opus is a backlash in the adjustment? As a mechanical person, a concept with precision adjustments in machines, is that you always adjust "from the same direction" to account for any slop, or backlash, in an assembly. So if your setting is 5 and you adjust up to 7 to test, but you want to go down to 6- you go down PAST 6, then UP to 6, rather than from 7 down to 6. Mechanically, those are 2 different things. Hope that makes sense...
Recently upgraded from our Baratza Encore to the Fellow Opus. I have the ability of always finding something to complain about.. and I haven't been able to yet with our Opus. Baratza was good for a while but the grind became really inconsistent even with calibrating. The Fellow Opus may be one of the pieces of coffee gear I've purchased so far.
Yeah definitely no auto off. Basically any dark roast grinds in within the first 30s for me and most of the light roasts I’ve tried also finish within that first 30 There’s nothing better than the sound of the motor pitch changing once there’s no more beans to grind and the motor is free-spinning
EDIT: I'd like to add that after further testing across the week with different coffees, blends and single origin, that these are updated shot time differences per click. Initially it was a 2-3 second difference but after going through a bit off coffee it looks like the shot time difference per click is closer 3-6 seconds, depending on the coffee, the roast level and the blend. I know that is a bit of a range, but it really seems to depend. I got my ESP in the mail the other day and I am more or less happy with it. I will say that if you already have a good hand grinder, this will not be an upgrade but more of a lateral move, imo. Also, with my medium-dark coffee (Onyx Eclipse, Counter Culture 46, Nicoletti Napoli, etc) in the 50-55 agtron range I am in the 16-20 click range. If you remove a shim, at least in my case, it brings it down to the 8-12 range even though the manual says it will bring it down about 5 click that was not my experience. So, imo, best to leave the shim in if you drink more than one roast level. Taste wise, it is fine, high body and brings out the more bitter notes like dark chocolate. My K6 brings out loads more acid, for comparison, even in coffees that are lower acidity. This is a preference thing; I like both just fine. As for adjustability, I am getting a 2-3 second shot time difference per click. Almost always 2 seconds. So, I adjust 2 clicks at a time. I was worried that the steps would be too big and that is not the case at all. For comparison, my K6 makes 4-5 second steps per click on a good day and 5-6 second steps on a bad day. Interestingly, if I understand correctly, they are pretty close to the same step size difference with the steps in the ESP being larger. I suppose this could come down to grinding speed or something. Plus, the ESP makes tons more fines. Regardless, if your grinder is like mine, you won't have an issue dialing in. Retention for me, my 17 in is almost always 16.9-17.1 out. Now, this is only based off of a few days use and a few dozen shots. This is fine as well. I will sate that I got this grinder simply as a place holder until the end of the year in preparation for a move (voltage change). A few days in and I can tell you that I will upgrade in the future, fwiw. Overall, a good grinder worth the $200 usd I paid for it. Just my thoughts so far, for what they are worth.
Okay, now that it is the weekend, I would like to make some observations after pulling a number of shots. After pulling six shots at the same setting, I am noticing that I have a +/- 2 second difference so I averaged out my shot time to 27 seconds at 15 clicks. Doing the same thing on 14 clicks I am averaging a 33 second shot. So that is a difference of 6 seconds per click(it is really a range of 4-6 though). However, I would like to note that I am using a darker robusta blend to make lattes for my family (3 drinks in a go). I will repeat this with a single origin Colombia tomorrow. I guess with a blend I might be getting more robusta one time vs another. Anyway, yesterday and the day before I was seeing more like a 2-3 second difference in shot time per click but now it's closer to 4-5. I would like to point out that I was pulling a single shot before and then changing the setting so maybe I had some coffee in the basket from the previous grind. Now I am grinding more than one shot at the same setting back-to-back. Honestly, 4-5 seconds difference makes more sense to me as it is inline with my K6 at a similar step range. That said, I'll test the single origin tomorrow as I said and report back. It'll be about six shots across the day. And please keep in mind, I'm a novice at best, lol.
Okay, medium roasted 100% Colombian shot time difference is an average of 4 seconds per click. Range of 3-5. The roast level falls somewhere between CCC Forty-Six and Big Trouble. Alternatively, it would fall somewhere between Onyx Eclipse and Monarch. So, not really medium dark but closer than medium light. I guess the grinder has had a change to settle in after a week's use (four to six shots a day). Looks like I am averaging 4 second shot time differences on my Single Origins and 6 seconds on Arabica/Robusta blends. I don't currently have an Arabica only blend on hand but would guess it falls somewhere between. I can only guess that the blends have a higher shot time difference, and one that is more sporadic, because of different levels of blending per grinding session. The Mix is 80/20 overall but I maybe one shot gets 70/30, or something like that. I've no idea. Regardless, not the 2-3 seconds I was getting the first few days but 3-5 and 4-6 seem acceptable to me and more in line with what I was expecting. Still gives me two selections, per coffee, for my taste. One 24-27 second shot, give or take and one 28-32. Further fine tuning can come from dosing, which is fine for me, but might not be for you. Anyway, this is about on par with my Kingrinder K6, shot time wise, for what it's worth.
Just figured I'd update after putting five kilos through the ESP. Still getting a 4-6 second per click difference with the particular coffee I drink and a 17-gram dose. Retention is the same at around +/- 0.1 grams with a light tap on the top of the lid for single dosing. Though that will build up over a few days in the shoot so make sure at the end of the day you tap it a few times or use the included cleaning brush if you run more than 1 or 2 shots (I do about 6). Otherwise, once a week is fine. The one change is the grind setting. I am grinding at significantly lower settings now. What was once around 16-18 (w/stock shims) is now 11-13 fwiw. The manual did say this would happen though. So more or less, it is what it seemed out of the box.
The price varies depending on the country. In France the prices are as follows: Breville: €259 Opus: €199 Baratza eps: €179 There also appears to be more static on the baratza than the OPUS. And the retention is similar on the latter two but much greater on the Breville.
I have been very impressed with Fellow's customer service. I had problems with my Opus 3 months after purchase (I think it was my fault that it broke because it was right after moving), filed a warranty claim, and the next day they had a new one in the mail for me. Good customer service is hard to come by nowadays and I think it's something to really think about!
Thank you for the review, very thorough! On the US market, the pricing on all three machines are within $5 USD. I would personally still go for Baratza for its long-lasting reputation. Breville has way too many electronics in their, making it more vulnerable to non-mechanical failure, I would probably try to avoid for something I want to use for at least a decade.
So by conclusion go for the baratza esp, it's cheaper, easier to dial in and was in the (of subjective to personal preference) taste test the best one.
Thank you for reviewing these 3 grinders. I recently just started getting into coffee. I was deciding between the Opus and the Breville as I got tired of my manual grinder (time is valuable). I ultimately chose the Breville as it seems like the easiest to use. I also have a Breville bambino plus and I really like that I can get the grinder in the same color as my espresso machine.
8:50: How is it that folks can look at a grinder with a hopper, and fail to see that it is a single dose device? All you need do is a)start with an empty hopper. b) measure your dose. c) pour your single dose into the hopper. THAT’S IT. Add an aftermarket bellows (available online for $20 or less), and you can blow out the retention too.
At 6:09 this is actually not true. The Opus does not automatically detect whether all the beans have been ground. Pressing the button once will leave the grinder on exactly for 30 seconds, no matter how many beans will have been ground until then.
How does these budget electric grinders compares to a manual hand grinder, let's say a timemore c3 esp or a Kingrinder k4? I'm tight on budget and want to get the cheapest possible grinder without compromising too much on the quality of the grind.
Hello!! I have the breville smart pro,, was thinking its due for an upgrade,, you think df64 will be a nice one? Or any suggestions you have for me? 😂 thanks mate
The Opus has a much cheaper feel/built and I feel it will go out of service much sooner than the other two. The most convenient and easier to use is by far the Breville and yes the better tasting one is the Encore ESP.
I have a Baratza Encore ESP that I’ve grown to hate over a year of use. It grinds the coffee just fine. But it’s the everyday use and lack of functionality where it falls short. It has no smart functions, just a two on/off function switches. It’s loud! It slowly makes a mess. It builds up static. Grinding into the dosing cup and then transferring to a portafilter is tedious and messy. The average daily coffee drinker isn’t going to be able to differentiate between the taste nuances after adding milk, etc. As such, I’m moving to a Breville Smart Grinder Pro added functionality and ease of use.
Informative video Josh and great recommendations for the lower cost end of the grinder market. Personally we upgraded a bit and went with the Rancilio Rocky which I have found to be awesome for our needs.
Remember when you blind tasted the SGP v the NZ and the SGP won? Does this mean, in the cup, the NZ - at about $1700 - is not as flavourful an espresso grinder as any of these? I remember seeing a blind tasting (not espresso) where the average joe public didn't even show a preference for burr grinders over blade grinders...I'm thinking of going back to my mortar and pestle.
Hahahahahah! It’s true! Sometimes the differences are so small. Remembering I’m drinking straight espresso here - and a majority of people are adding a full cup of milk to the espresso- by which stage any nuance is justifiably absent. The Niche is all looks/workflow - (and if you have the cash to spend on it) I wouldn’t be purchasing a Niche for the flavour profile alone- & on that note- it’s a very new thing buying a grinder based on this perceived flavour profile. I, obviously subscribe to it wholeheartedly, I’m neck deep already in any case hahaha but you’ll find price, features and aesthetics also play a large role when getting a grinder. In recent years cheaper grinders are getting better in quality, and offering features higher end grinders have.
Is it worth spending $100 to $200 more than these? I was thinking about the Eureka Mignon Notte or the Baratza Sette (and then is it worth getting the 270 over the 30?). I am tempted by these cheap grinders, but are they a good value? I don’t want to be pennywise and pound foolish.
Eureka Mignon Notte is fantastic and very robust and reliable. The latter grinder mentioned not as much. This video was mainly an attempt to make the case of these being the bare minimum when it comes to purchasing a Grinder - for Espresso) .. Too many people don't invest even this much in a Grinder - and my experience is, they're always left disappointed in the results. If you can afford a better than this Grinder - like in the Eureka Mignon Notte - DO IT 👌
I'm gonna say that even if you say that the best one for all the features is the Opus, the fact that you needed to go back and dial it in again should almost make it a non-starter, particularly if you're using the grinder for espresso and other types of coffee. If I make a pourover and then I have to fiddle with the grinder afterwards to get a decent espresso (or apparently if you dial it in and then come back to it later, like happened here) it's costing me time, and I don't want to spend any more of that than necessary.
Fair point. I’m giving benefit to the doubt it was a one off situation - I have since used the Opus in other comparisons and not felt this issue as much - though I still feel the grind adjustment could be a little more consistent- it’s not wholly unreliable, and remains the better of the three for the best freshly ground with low retention grinder along with better flavour performance than the others 🫶
I’m between the fellow opus and the VS3. Which would be your go to? Overall, the VS3 feels more solid and easier grind adjustments for fine tuning. However I’m concern over the motor durability and the lower rpm. the Opus seems to have ergonomics based on some earlier reviews. Would like to know your thought, Josh!😊
Varia VS3 over OPUS all day everyday. 100% correct on all things - and the Motor of the GEN2 Varia is bigger and better than previous. Ergonomics - of the motor? or workflow ? ... Varia could do with a 58mm dosing cup - otherwise with a Dosing ring - transferring grounds is a breeze. Flavour Profile , I prefer the Varia
@@junxiongtan9305 Never. It was a small amount of them coming out of manufacturing to my knowledge was only at the very beginning of shipping late last year. As of recent models - only heard good things 🫶
I'm using Breville bambino plus and Fellow Opus grinder, get really confuse about the range of the suggestion from the cover of fellow opus, not sure it's the problem from the espresso machine or not. Fellow Opus suggested 1-2 will be the espresso, but I can't get any drops, I tried different and at last 5 is the best. Did I make anything wrong or it's normal for having such a big different with the suggested?
Great information. I currently have the Sage smart grinder pro and Bambino Plus. I've had this for over 8 years, and i need to change. What would you suggest as a decent upgrade for both 🤔
Brilliant, thanks. Any recommendations on a replacement for the Bambino Plus? I do like the fact that it's an easy machine to use and the milk frothing is done for you. Would want a similar product
Thank you for your video! Really enjoyed it! I currently have the Breville BES870XL espresso machine and the Breville Smart Grinder. As you may already know, BES870XL comes with the grinder itself so I haven't used the Smart Grinder ever since I got the BES870XL. Do you think using a separate grinder makes my coffee taste better? Or is the grinder from BES870XL essentially a same grinder as the Smart Grinder? Also, what was the coffee bean you used? I would love to get a bag for myself to try! Almond croissant and dark chocolate flavor sounds amazing.
Yes, a separate grinder makes your coffee taste better. There is a step up in quality of the Grinder from a standalone one to an in-built grinder. I would also opt to use a standalone if I could. I drink the coffee from our online store which is great - but the specific coffee you're talking about sadly is a seasonal blend. alternativebrewing.com.au/collections/coffee
I don’t get it? You say the cheapest but that model on your link and even on Amazon is like 200-300+$? And then for me it appears as if the Opus is cheapest? Have prices changed that drastically in the past year? Or is there a certain model of breville that’s cheaper? Great video but confusing when looking into it afterward
Some have yea but the Breville is still fairly cheap for what it does. Prices will also change depending on your location. We’re in Australia. Here’s the link to the Breville alternativebrewing.com.au/products/breville-smart-grinder-pro/
I'm still watching so I don't know if you addressed this, but isn't the Smart Grinder PRO the same grinder and burrs as the inbuilt one the Breville machines use? So it wouldn't really make sense to switch no?
Yup, like all Baratza, it’s loud. My first grinder is Sette270, its loud, very… but its good, I don’t mind the noise too much, if it’s good. Just make sure your second grinder, flat burr is quiet. 😂
I splurged and bought a Moccamaster and will be buying an espresso maker in the future nothing too expensive I hate to have two grinders. Any advice, and I love this site. @@AlternativeBrewing
Interesting and very good video. I have a smart grinder now and was thinking to change to Opus. I don't think i will, until someone does a comparison of these for V60. But actually, i think i just need a better espresso only grinder and will continue to hand grind for pourover. Is quite handy to have a quick grinder in the morning, 10 seconds for me is sometimes too slow 😅
Thanks so much! 🤣 I was almost going to recommend the Varia VS3 as the best option here, however it’d be painfully slow if an extra 10secs is frustrating for you 🫶
The Opus looks more interesting but I think I've settled for the ESP as Baratza has been around long enough to have a solid rep for quality. I'm abit worried the Opus isn't to the same standard as Fellow's other products, and willl simply break in one or two years' time.
Just wish my smart grinder pro didn’t stall as easily. I hate having to feed beans into already running burrs little by little to prevent that god awful ratcheting clutch from engaging.
I just bought the ecp3420 delonghi for $129cad on prime sale....so it is hard to pay more money for a grinder than what I paid for my espresso machine....sigh
it's true - and if I'm being honest - at this price range - a grinder worth more may in fact cause the machine to struggle more than it needs to run the espresso 🫶
@AlternativeBrewing hard to know what to do. Would love if you decide to do a video on a cheaper espresso machine and what grinder to use to get the best out of it.....even if it ends up being a hand grinder. May be very informative for broke people like me. I know it will never be great, but good enough so I don't have to go out and buy Starbucks everyday would be awesome. I was looking on the Vevor website, they have two grinders people seem to love....they are quite reasonable, but not sure. Either way, thanks for the great videos!
I got the encore esp for 195 USD tax paid in India. Breville is 750 USD tax paid here. So there is no comparison. Also baratza has better spare and service which is what matters.
It took awhile with me - a certainly the espresso is a little thin - and bright - certainly not a viscous thick italian espresso shot you can get from a better grinder than it.
@@carlleighton6317 it's great. For my preferences of use, I like having the beans on the bin on top ready to go at any time instead of pulling the coffee bean bag from the fridge every time and measure.
I just don't understand the pick order here. I've watched many videos on grinders and I haven't seen a definitive correlation between grind speed and quality of particles under a particle analyzer. In fact James Hoffman has done exactly that with all three of these grinders and the faster Baratza did a better job than the slower Breville. There were less fines and it had a better overall curve. Much more importantly, you point out that the Breville tastes much worse and your favorite espresso overall came from the Baratza. It seems as though you had a bias in your head of which would be best and when it turned out different after tasting you refused to accept the result. If you are primarily focused on work flow or features as your primary reason for picking the Baratza last, I think you need to be more clear about that because I'm left completely confused by your conclusion.
Hey thanks so much for the feedback! You're right - I should attempt in retrospect, to add some clarity to my recommendations. In many of these styles of videos there's my lived experience which each grinder and its use - including tasting the coffee from the grinders over several espresso as well as their on-paper specifications ... than there's the flavour tests on the day of filming - that I represent and talk of in the now (filming live) ... so to be clear.. (and this next aspect has a follow up video Im looking to make.. ) the Baratza Encore makes good coffee. On the day it was better than the others, but only slightly. I weight it up/. Is the taste worth the hassle? It's a similar question to; is the cost of a $4k grinder worth the taste? In respects to the Baratza Encore ESP - I find every other aspect of it's use goes against the efficacy of good espresso. It makes good espresso but the difference is not that much more that I would happily accept the rest of it's faults over that of the Breville.
Hahahaa it’s true I did do that didn’t I 😅 yeah I think that far down the rabbit hole - I’ve said it before- there’s grinders such as the Breville, Niche and others alike - I’ve compared them against many others - that its just very clear which coffee is from which Grinder - no matter how much time I could spend dialling in one over another.
@@AlternativeBrewing that's interesting. I was wondering indeed if it was a matter of dialing in (because taste can alter a lot that way). Excellent review!
virtually every test - sometimes speed and flavour can be the best however in this instance - workflow is poor in comparison - which in a way takes away from the better points - all unless you're okay with it.
Clearly sponsored video. Encore esp is preferred by almost every espresso enthusiast. It makes good espresso, faster and has a better grind adjustment and service support.
"is preferred by almost every espresso enthusiast" I cannot agree with this - as I don't know every every espresso enthusiast. It does make good Espresso - and I discover this in the video - and state it, along with how fast it grind in the video as well. Having better grind adjustment - I disagree. It's simple - and unchanged from the standard Encore, why change something that good right? - but it's just not as exact or as easy to track as the Breville for example - or the Opus where you have the settings marked out much clearer number by number. and notches in between. The encore is okay, but I disagree it is the better grind adjustment. Service and support , yes you are correct. Way better than Breville will be - an Fellow are getting better - but when you have a grinder like the Encore ESP, which basically is a replica of the Encore in most ways - you're going to have ample spare parts and service at the ready. It makes a great choice for brewers. It's just not my choice for a great Espresso Grinder over the Fellow Opus.
or most affordable - depends which way you look at it - and yes., for quality espresso see my intro. There's no Grinder unders these three for $$ and value that'll give you great espresso - nothing
Thank you for a truly outstanding review, EXACTLY what I was looking for! Daring to start by declaring the target audience and a direct hint at what to chose is the PERFECT way to help viewers with what they are searching for. In all honesty, one of the most intelligent and best films I have ever seen on TH-cam.
And yes, I was deciding between the Breville (aka "Sage" in Sweden) and the Fellow and your conclusions matched my own perfectly. A slight edge to the Opus :)
Wow thanks! that's big praise. Glad you enjoyed it 😊
He announced the best 1 within 30 seconds… not all heroes wear capes. I salute you, sir.
🫶 thanks !
Yes! And yet i still watched the whole video. Reminds me of movies where they kill off the main character and the movie is still amazing. Goes to show giving the results does not ruin the video!
Yet it wasnt
It was at 0:16 😅
I’m very confused though, the ESP ends up being his favourite in terms in taste and says it’s more versatile then the breville but yet it comes last in his rankings at the start. On top of that he says Opus is not as consistent as the others.
A TH-camr that gets straight to the point in the first 30 seconds. Unheard of.
Thanks for starting off with your overall pick. It really freed up my mind to enjoy and focus on the details of the video. Wish more creators did this.
Noted! thanks so much 🫶
You are THE MAN! That’s what you need in a review video. I liked the vid ten seconds in because you GET IT! By the end I was a subscriber. Big up.
Awesome! Thank you! 🫶
The fact that you tested all the machines without editing and cuts is awesome. Big part of a grinder for me is the sound. Crazy I know but early mornings with a full house means it can be a deal breaker.
Awesome, thank you!
Sound Along with much lower retention and static issues than many competitors under the $500 mark. It was a long-term investment for me and I also wanted something that could grind everything kind of like the smart grinder Pro. In fact I was benchmarking between the SGP and Niche zero and I just decided to splurge and enjoy less hassle. It's been 10 months and I just am now cleaning my nature zero. I pushed it on purpose and I kept checking it and I just didn't clean it out. I put really high quality coffee through it of a medium or traditional espresso roast which I understand is a little bit lighter than it used to be and I really love it. Almost no build up of any kind and the retention through a midwest winter was nil. About a minute or two after I finish grinding, I would just flap the lid and the rest of the grinds would fall out
The Baratza ESP has the high end M2 burrs. Conical or flat burrs is personal taste, but we wanted the M2 burrs. Shims were not necessary owing to the very wide range of settings
13:28 Perhaps the inconsistency in the opus is a backlash in the adjustment? As a mechanical person, a concept with precision adjustments in machines, is that you always adjust "from the same direction" to account for any slop, or backlash, in an assembly. So if your setting is 5 and you adjust up to 7 to test, but you want to go down to 6- you go down PAST 6, then UP to 6, rather than from 7 down to 6. Mechanically, those are 2 different things. Hope that makes sense...
Recently upgraded from our Baratza Encore to the Fellow Opus. I have the ability of always finding something to complain about.. and I haven't been able to yet with our Opus. Baratza was good for a while but the grind became really inconsistent even with calibrating. The Fellow Opus may be one of the pieces of coffee gear I've purchased so far.
No, opus does not have an auto shut off feature. It has a timed off feature, between 30,60,90,120 seconds. The auto shut off is in the ode.
Yeah definitely no auto off. Basically any dark roast grinds in within the first 30s for me and most of the light roasts I’ve tried also finish within that first 30
There’s nothing better than the sound of the motor pitch changing once there’s no more beans to grind and the motor is free-spinning
True! How’d I mistake that, thanks 🙏 and in the cut, I realised the Breville really had the automatic off, if you get the timing right
EDIT: I'd like to add that after further testing across the week with different coffees, blends and single origin, that these are updated shot time differences per click. Initially it was a 2-3 second difference but after going through a bit off coffee it looks like the shot time difference per click is closer 3-6 seconds, depending on the coffee, the roast level and the blend. I know that is a bit of a range, but it really seems to depend.
I got my ESP in the mail the other day and I am more or less happy with it. I will say that if you already have a good hand grinder, this will not be an upgrade but more of a lateral move, imo. Also, with my medium-dark coffee (Onyx Eclipse, Counter Culture 46, Nicoletti Napoli, etc) in the 50-55 agtron range I am in the 16-20 click range. If you remove a shim, at least in my case, it brings it down to the 8-12 range even though the manual says it will bring it down about 5 click that was not my experience. So, imo, best to leave the shim in if you drink more than one roast level.
Taste wise, it is fine, high body and brings out the more bitter notes like dark chocolate. My K6 brings out loads more acid, for comparison, even in coffees that are lower acidity. This is a preference thing; I like both just fine.
As for adjustability, I am getting a 2-3 second shot time difference per click. Almost always 2 seconds. So, I adjust 2 clicks at a time. I was worried that the steps would be too big and that is not the case at all. For comparison, my K6 makes 4-5 second steps per click on a good day and 5-6 second steps on a bad day. Interestingly, if I understand correctly, they are pretty close to the same step size difference with the steps in the ESP being larger. I suppose this could come down to grinding speed or something. Plus, the ESP makes tons more fines. Regardless, if your grinder is like mine, you won't have an issue dialing in.
Retention for me, my 17 in is almost always 16.9-17.1 out. Now, this is only based off of a few days use and a few dozen shots. This is fine as well.
I will sate that I got this grinder simply as a place holder until the end of the year in preparation for a move (voltage change). A few days in and I can tell you that I will upgrade in the future, fwiw. Overall, a good grinder worth the $200 usd I paid for it.
Just my thoughts so far, for what they are worth.
That’s amazing! Thanks so much for the detailed account of your experiences🔥I’m sure many will find this useful
@@AlternativeBrewing No problem, I will update over time. I guess the grinder will have a break-in period.
Okay, now that it is the weekend, I would like to make some observations after pulling a number of shots. After pulling six shots at the same setting, I am noticing that I have a +/- 2 second difference so I averaged out my shot time to 27 seconds at 15 clicks. Doing the same thing on 14 clicks I am averaging a 33 second shot. So that is a difference of 6 seconds per click(it is really a range of 4-6 though). However, I would like to note that I am using a darker robusta blend to make lattes for my family (3 drinks in a go). I will repeat this with a single origin Colombia tomorrow. I guess with a blend I might be getting more robusta one time vs another.
Anyway, yesterday and the day before I was seeing more like a 2-3 second difference in shot time per click but now it's closer to 4-5. I would like to point out that I was pulling a single shot before and then changing the setting so maybe I had some coffee in the basket from the previous grind. Now I am grinding more than one shot at the same setting back-to-back. Honestly, 4-5 seconds difference makes more sense to me as it is inline with my K6 at a similar step range.
That said, I'll test the single origin tomorrow as I said and report back. It'll be about six shots across the day. And please keep in mind, I'm a novice at best, lol.
Okay, medium roasted 100% Colombian shot time difference is an average of 4 seconds per click. Range of 3-5. The roast level falls somewhere between CCC Forty-Six and Big Trouble. Alternatively, it would fall somewhere between Onyx Eclipse and Monarch. So, not really medium dark but closer than medium light.
I guess the grinder has had a change to settle in after a week's use (four to six shots a day). Looks like I am averaging 4 second shot time differences on my Single Origins and 6 seconds on Arabica/Robusta blends. I don't currently have an Arabica only blend on hand but would guess it falls somewhere between. I can only guess that the blends have a higher shot time difference, and one that is more sporadic, because of different levels of blending per grinding session. The Mix is 80/20 overall but I maybe one shot gets 70/30, or something like that. I've no idea.
Regardless, not the 2-3 seconds I was getting the first few days but 3-5 and 4-6 seem acceptable to me and more in line with what I was expecting. Still gives me two selections, per coffee, for my taste. One 24-27 second shot, give or take and one 28-32. Further fine tuning can come from dosing, which is fine for me, but might not be for you.
Anyway, this is about on par with my Kingrinder K6, shot time wise, for what it's worth.
Just figured I'd update after putting five kilos through the ESP. Still getting a 4-6 second per click difference with the particular coffee I drink and a 17-gram dose. Retention is the same at around +/- 0.1 grams with a light tap on the top of the lid for single dosing. Though that will build up over a few days in the shoot so make sure at the end of the day you tap it a few times or use the included cleaning brush if you run more than 1 or 2 shots (I do about 6). Otherwise, once a week is fine. The one change is the grind setting. I am grinding at significantly lower settings now. What was once around 16-18 (w/stock shims) is now 11-13 fwiw. The manual did say this would happen though.
So more or less, it is what it seemed out of the box.
Thank you. I am new to home brewing but, I have an ESP on order. I'm glad to see it stood up to the others. I can't wait to get grinding. 😅
Welcome aboard!
Was going to pull the trigger on the Opus but you sold me on the Baratza, plus it's $30 off on Amazon right now. Thanks for the video.
The price varies depending on the country. In France the prices are as follows:
Breville: €259
Opus: €199
Baratza eps: €179
There also appears to be more static on the baratza than the OPUS. And the retention is similar on the latter two but much greater on the Breville.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Affordable Espresso Home Grinders
02:10 Grind Dials & Espresso Settings
03:59 Burrs, RPM & Motors
05:09 Grinding out a Dose
07:53 Workflows, Retention & Cleanliness
12:02 Espresso Blind Tasting
18:27 Conclusion
I have been very impressed with Fellow's customer service. I had problems with my Opus 3 months after purchase (I think it was my fault that it broke because it was right after moving), filed a warranty claim, and the next day they had a new one in the mail for me. Good customer service is hard to come by nowadays and I think it's something to really think about!
Thanks for sharing - That's so good to hear 🫶
Thank you for the review, very thorough! On the US market, the pricing on all three machines are within $5 USD. I would personally still go for Baratza for its long-lasting reputation. Breville has way too many electronics in their, making it more vulnerable to non-mechanical failure, I would probably try to avoid for something I want to use for at least a decade.
Good point!
So by conclusion go for the baratza esp, it's cheaper, easier to dial in and was in the (of subjective to personal preference) taste test the best one.
Nice! Yes all true. The two things I’m not big on are the noise factor and cleanliness - and yea the coffee was tasty! That’s a win
exactly what i was looking for thanks :)
Thank you for reviewing these 3 grinders. I recently just started getting into coffee. I was deciding between the Opus and the Breville as I got tired of my manual grinder (time is valuable). I ultimately chose the Breville as it seems like the easiest to use. I also have a Breville bambino plus and I really like that I can get the grinder in the same color as my espresso machine.
Glad I could help!
Great video 👍👍👍👍👍no psychobabble ❤️
Glad you liked it! 😁
I've been waiting for a good comparison between these, thank you
Glad to help!
Thanks for the video, helped affirm my purchase of the fellow opus. I ordered with the upgraded burrs.
Glad I could help
8:50: How is it that folks can look at a grinder with a hopper, and fail to see that it is a single dose device? All you need do is a)start with an empty hopper. b) measure your dose. c) pour your single dose into the hopper. THAT’S IT. Add an aftermarket bellows (available online for $20 or less), and you can blow out the retention too.
Ture 🤔
At 6:09 this is actually not true. The Opus does not automatically detect whether all the beans have been ground. Pressing the button once will leave the grinder on exactly for 30 seconds, no matter how many beans will have been ground until then.
Great review 👏
Thank you! Cheers!
I feel like Jeff Pezzati from Naked Raygun is helping me choose an espresso grinder. That's a compliment.
How does these budget electric grinders compares to a manual hand grinder, let's say a timemore c3 esp or a Kingrinder k4? I'm tight on budget and want to get the cheapest possible grinder without compromising too much on the quality of the grind.
👍 Check this video out and let me know if you have further questions: th-cam.com/video/95DOWxV7a9k/w-d-xo.html
Hello!! I have the breville smart pro,, was thinking its due for an upgrade,, you think df64 will be a nice one? Or any suggestions you have for me? 😂 thanks mate
Yeah either the DF54, Varia VS3 or DF64 are fantastic next level grinders 👍
nice presentation, thanks.
You are welcome!
The Opus has a much cheaper feel/built and I feel it will go out of service much sooner than the other two. The most convenient and easier to use is by far the Breville and yes the better tasting one is the Encore ESP.
I have a Baratza Encore ESP that I’ve grown to hate over a year of use. It grinds the coffee just fine. But it’s the everyday use and lack of functionality where it falls short. It has no smart functions, just a two on/off function switches. It’s loud! It slowly makes a mess. It builds up static. Grinding into the dosing cup and then transferring to a portafilter is tedious and messy. The average daily coffee drinker isn’t going to be able to differentiate between the taste nuances after adding milk, etc. As such, I’m moving to a Breville Smart Grinder Pro added functionality and ease of use.
It sounds like you’ve done your research - I can relate to the frustrations with this 🙌
Informative video Josh and great recommendations for the lower cost end of the grinder market. Personally we upgraded a bit and went with the Rancilio Rocky which I have found to be awesome for our needs.
You're welcome ! Good choice 👌
Remember when you blind tasted the SGP v the NZ and the SGP won? Does this mean, in the cup, the NZ - at about $1700 - is not as flavourful an espresso grinder as any of these? I remember seeing a blind tasting (not espresso) where the average joe public didn't even show a preference for burr grinders over blade grinders...I'm thinking of going back to my mortar and pestle.
Yeah, same boat. I feel being fooled.. 😂
Hahahahahah! It’s true! Sometimes the differences are so small. Remembering I’m drinking straight espresso here - and a majority of people are adding a full cup of milk to the espresso- by which stage any nuance is justifiably absent.
The Niche is all looks/workflow - (and if you have the cash to spend on it) I wouldn’t be purchasing a Niche for the flavour profile alone- & on that note- it’s a very new thing buying a grinder based on this perceived flavour profile. I, obviously subscribe to it wholeheartedly, I’m neck deep already in any case hahaha but you’ll find price, features and aesthetics also play a large role when getting a grinder. In recent years cheaper grinders are getting better in quality, and offering features higher end grinders have.
Is it worth spending $100 to $200 more than these? I was thinking about the Eureka Mignon Notte or the Baratza Sette (and then is it worth getting the 270 over the 30?).
I am tempted by these cheap grinders, but are they a good value? I don’t want to be pennywise and pound foolish.
Eureka Mignon Notte is fantastic and very robust and reliable. The latter grinder mentioned not as much. This video was mainly an attempt to make the case of these being the bare minimum when it comes to purchasing a Grinder - for Espresso) .. Too many people don't invest even this much in a Grinder - and my experience is, they're always left disappointed in the results.
If you can afford a better than this Grinder - like in the Eureka Mignon Notte - DO IT 👌
I'm gonna say that even if you say that the best one for all the features is the Opus, the fact that you needed to go back and dial it in again should almost make it a non-starter, particularly if you're using the grinder for espresso and other types of coffee. If I make a pourover and then I have to fiddle with the grinder afterwards to get a decent espresso (or apparently if you dial it in and then come back to it later, like happened here) it's costing me time, and I don't want to spend any more of that than necessary.
Fair point. I’m giving benefit to the doubt it was a one off situation - I have since used the Opus in other comparisons and not felt this issue as much - though I still feel the grind adjustment could be a little more consistent- it’s not wholly unreliable, and remains the better of the three for the best freshly ground with low retention grinder along with better flavour performance than the others 🫶
I’m between the fellow opus and the VS3. Which would be your go to? Overall, the VS3 feels more solid and easier grind adjustments for fine tuning. However I’m concern over the motor durability and the lower rpm. the Opus seems to have ergonomics based on some earlier reviews. Would like to know your thought, Josh!😊
Varia VS3 over OPUS all day everyday. 100% correct on all things - and the Motor of the GEN2 Varia is bigger and better than previous. Ergonomics - of the motor? or workflow ? ... Varia could do with a 58mm dosing cup - otherwise with a Dosing ring - transferring grounds is a breeze. Flavour Profile , I prefer the Varia
Thanks for input Josh! Have you experienced any grind skating/adjustment slipping during grinding on vs3 so far?
@@junxiongtan9305 Never. It was a small amount of them coming out of manufacturing to my knowledge was only at the very beginning of shipping late last year. As of recent models - only heard good things 🫶
Which filter did you use ? Simple or pressurised ?
simple non-pressurised is the way to go 🙌
I'm using Breville bambino plus and Fellow Opus grinder, get really confuse about the range of the suggestion from the cover of fellow opus, not sure it's the problem from the espresso machine or not.
Fellow Opus suggested 1-2 will be the espresso, but I can't get any drops, I tried different and at last 5 is the best.
Did I make anything wrong or it's normal for having such a big different with the suggested?
It’s normal yeah- I had the same issue. I found around 4 to be accurate for me. Depends on many things
Great information. I currently have the Sage smart grinder pro and Bambino Plus. I've had this for over 8 years, and i need to change. What would you suggest as a decent upgrade for both 🤔
Varia VS3 🙌 Not a huge jump in price - but it is a Single Dosing Grinder that runs rings around anything of a similar value.
Brilliant, thanks. Any recommendations on a replacement for the Bambino Plus? I do like the fact that it's an easy machine to use and the milk frothing is done for you. Would want a similar product
Thank you for your video! Really enjoyed it!
I currently have the Breville BES870XL espresso machine and the Breville Smart Grinder.
As you may already know, BES870XL comes with the grinder itself so I haven't used the Smart Grinder ever since I got the BES870XL.
Do you think using a separate grinder makes my coffee taste better? Or is the grinder from BES870XL essentially a same grinder as the Smart Grinder?
Also, what was the coffee bean you used? I would love to get a bag for myself to try! Almond croissant and dark chocolate flavor sounds amazing.
Yes, a separate grinder makes your coffee taste better. There is a step up in quality of the Grinder from a standalone one to an in-built grinder. I would also opt to use a standalone if I could.
I drink the coffee from our online store which is great - but the specific coffee you're talking about sadly is a seasonal blend.
alternativebrewing.com.au/collections/coffee
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you for your response!
I just got the Fellow Opus and could not get a good dialed even at the finest setting...I was hesistant to mess with it
I don’t get it? You say the cheapest but that model on your link and even on Amazon is like 200-300+$? And then for me it appears as if the Opus is cheapest? Have prices changed that drastically in the past year? Or is there a certain model of breville that’s cheaper? Great video but confusing when looking into it afterward
Some have yea but the Breville is still fairly cheap for what it does. Prices will also change depending on your location. We’re in Australia. Here’s the link to the Breville alternativebrewing.com.au/products/breville-smart-grinder-pro/
I'm still watching so I don't know if you addressed this, but isn't the Smart Grinder PRO the same grinder and burrs as the inbuilt one the Breville machines use? So it wouldn't really make sense to switch no?
Yes, though Grinder adjustment I find is more precise on the stand alone grinder - and much easier to single dose with as well
Can ether of these be used as a coffee and espresso grinder?
Yes, all essentially can 🙌
Yup, like all Baratza, it’s loud.
My first grinder is Sette270, its loud, very… but its good, I don’t mind the noise too much, if it’s good.
Just make sure your second grinder, flat burr is quiet. 😂
Right on!
Can the opus do drip also?
It can - though I’d consider it more of an Espresso Grinder
I splurged and bought a Moccamaster and will be buying an espresso maker in the future nothing too expensive I hate to have two grinders. Any advice, and I love this site. @@AlternativeBrewing
Varia VS3 gen2 🔥 it’s the perfect balance unless you wanna go DF64 also great
Any chance you'll be reviewing the new Timemore 064S and 078S? They look great but I'd love to know what you think of them.
Yes, we would like to 🙌 waiting on stock
@@AlternativeBrewing That's awesome! Thank you so much for your work.
Interesting and very good video.
I have a smart grinder now and was thinking to change to Opus. I don't think i will, until someone does a comparison of these for V60. But actually, i think i just need a better espresso only grinder and will continue to hand grind for pourover. Is quite handy to have a quick grinder in the morning, 10 seconds for me is sometimes too slow 😅
Thanks so much! 🤣 I was almost going to recommend the Varia VS3 as the best option here, however it’d be painfully slow if an extra 10secs is frustrating for you 🫶
So why is the grinder he picked the test is not linked to
You can find it here: alternativebrewing.com.au/products/fellow-opus-coffee-grinder
The Opus looks more interesting but I think I've settled for the ESP as Baratza has been around long enough to have a solid rep for quality. I'm abit worried the Opus isn't to the same standard as Fellow's other products, and willl simply break in one or two years' time.
Yes, 🙌 I was very much in the same mindset. Was surprised to see Fellow’s direction going budget focused.
I bought my encore barantz in 2015 still going great @ 2-3 espresso daily
Just wish my smart grinder pro didn’t stall as easily. I hate having to feed beans into already running burrs little by little to prevent that god awful ratcheting clutch from engaging.
just quick comment, the Opus will not stop when the beans are done, it's 30s for one click, 60sec for two clicks
Thanks 🙏
I just bought the ecp3420 delonghi for $129cad on prime sale....so it is hard to pay more money for a grinder than what I paid for my espresso machine....sigh
it's true - and if I'm being honest - at this price range - a grinder worth more may in fact cause the machine to struggle more than it needs to run the espresso 🫶
@AlternativeBrewing hard to know what to do. Would love if you decide to do a video on a cheaper espresso machine and what grinder to use to get the best out of it.....even if it ends up being a hand grinder. May be very informative for broke people like me. I know it will never be great, but good enough so I don't have to go out and buy Starbucks everyday would be awesome. I was looking on the Vevor website, they have two grinders people seem to love....they are quite reasonable, but not sure.
Either way, thanks for the great videos!
Thank you
You're welcome
Bummer - I just got the Breville grinder 😢
I got the encore esp for 195 USD tax paid in India. Breville is 750 USD tax paid here. So there is no comparison. Also baratza has better spare and service which is what matters.
ofc! Price in your local area will play a huge role in what's more affordable and offers that value
SGP for 750usd is insanely high
What coffee was that?😮
Toby's Estate 🙌
no matter how many times i try i cannot get my breville sgp to taste decent espresso.
It took awhile with me - a certainly the espresso is a little thin - and bright - certainly not a viscous thick italian espresso shot you can get from a better grinder than it.
Not being a coffee geek, just got the breville for easy of use and because I already have other breville appliances.
How are you finding it? I'm looking at that or the Opus.
@@carlleighton6317 it's great. For my preferences of use, I like having the beans on the bin on top ready to go at any time instead of pulling the coffee bean bag from the fridge every time and measure.
Good review, little confusing though so the the ESP is consistent , your favour tasting and versatile but comes in last??
no - did I really say that. It's inconsistnet. Tastes okay - but there's so much not great about it tbh
If you ever feel useless, think about those strawberries
what the! 😂 😂
I just don't understand the pick order here. I've watched many videos on grinders and I haven't seen a definitive correlation between grind speed and quality of particles under a particle analyzer. In fact James Hoffman has done exactly that with all three of these grinders and the faster Baratza did a better job than the slower Breville. There were less fines and it had a better overall curve. Much more importantly, you point out that the Breville tastes much worse and your favorite espresso overall came from the Baratza. It seems as though you had a bias in your head of which would be best and when it turned out different after tasting you refused to accept the result. If you are primarily focused on work flow or features as your primary reason for picking the Baratza last, I think you need to be more clear about that because I'm left completely confused by your conclusion.
Hey thanks so much for the feedback! You're right - I should attempt in retrospect, to add some clarity to my recommendations. In many of these styles of videos there's my lived experience which each grinder and its use - including tasting the coffee from the grinders over several espresso as well as their on-paper specifications ... than there's the flavour tests on the day of filming - that I represent and talk of in the now (filming live) ... so to be clear.. (and this next aspect has a follow up video Im looking to make.. ) the Baratza Encore makes good coffee. On the day it was better than the others, but only slightly. I weight it up/. Is the taste worth the hassle? It's a similar question to; is the cost of a $4k grinder worth the taste? In respects to the Baratza Encore ESP - I find every other aspect of it's use goes against the efficacy of good espresso. It makes good espresso but the difference is not that much more that I would happily accept the rest of it's faults over that of the Breville.
16:37 so funny this blindtasting, you point to the Opus as second favourite before you look under the espresso glass.
Hahahaa it’s true I did do that didn’t I 😅 yeah I think that far down the rabbit hole - I’ve said it before- there’s grinders such as the Breville, Niche and others alike - I’ve compared them against many others - that its just very clear which coffee is from which Grinder - no matter how much time I could spend dialling in one over another.
@@AlternativeBrewing that's interesting. I was wondering indeed if it was a matter of dialing in (because taste can alter a lot that way). Excellent review!
nope im looking for a good filter coffee grinder
Encore 🫶
I don’t understand…… on virtually every test the Baratza was best and your conclusion was……….the Fellow?????? 🤔
virtually every test - sometimes speed and flavour can be the best however in this instance - workflow is poor in comparison - which in a way takes away from the better points - all unless you're okay with it.
Clearly sponsored video. Encore esp is preferred by almost every espresso enthusiast. It makes good espresso, faster and has a better grind adjustment and service support.
"is preferred by almost every espresso enthusiast" I cannot agree with this - as I don't know every every espresso enthusiast. It does make good Espresso - and I discover this in the video - and state it, along with how fast it grind in the video as well. Having better grind adjustment - I disagree. It's simple - and unchanged from the standard Encore, why change something that good right? - but it's just not as exact or as easy to track as the Breville for example - or the Opus where you have the settings marked out much clearer number by number. and notches in between. The encore is okay, but I disagree it is the better grind adjustment. Service and support , yes you are correct. Way better than Breville will be - an Fellow are getting better - but when you have a grinder like the Encore ESP, which basically is a replica of the Encore in most ways - you're going to have ample spare parts and service at the ready. It makes a great choice for brewers. It's just not my choice for a great Espresso Grinder over the Fellow Opus.
Opus and Breville is absolutely terrible.
Is Encore ESP any better?
@@AlternativeBrewing yes, it surprisingly is much better.
I feel like at this price point one should keep saving their money. These are all grinders that a home barista would eventually replace.
That’s a fair point to make, I’d agree - and yes, the issue arises when you need the Grinder asap, and waiting is really not an option 😅
"CHEAPEST"
or most affordable - depends which way you look at it - and yes., for quality espresso see my intro. There's no Grinder unders these three for $$ and value that'll give you great espresso - nothing
Not even close to the cheapest.... !!!
😂 ... but Espresso Grinder?