I would love to discuss this tier list more if you want to, so what I'm thinking is live streaming (YT or Twitch) and have a conversation that way! Let me know if you're interested and I'll post more in the community tab if this ends up being a thing. Also wanted to say thank you for all the comments and suggestions! See you soon💜
rhino's survivability scales with enemy level, since the damage dealt by enemies during the first 3 seconds of the cast is converted directly into iron skin health. if they're level 10 and they deal 500 damage to it, 500 overguard is added. if they're level 9999 and deal 50 million damage to it, 50 million overguard is added. that means, at any enemy level, it will take at least another 3 seconds for the same level of enemy to cut through that iron skin again, AND THAT'S IF YOU STAND STILL. in reality, with parkour, killing, and CC, your iron skin should last more like 20 or 30 seconds. however, the piercing roar augment reduces enemy damage by 80% effectively making your iron skin last 5 times longer, and buffed reinforcing stomp heals your iron skin by a %, so you can just get one big one and then never have to recast it- just % heal it. millions of overguard being restored in one press. he should definitely have 3 stars for survivability. furthermore, rhino stomp has a base 25m radius and has no line of sight requirements, making it one of the best CC abilities in the game, and for some reason, even though it doesn't raise them, the 97.5% slow effect still affects high priority targets such as acolytes, demolysts and necramechs. also, piercing roar knocks down all enemies and reduces their damage by 80% (so kinda like 80%DR or the team), again with no line of sight check. you can combine piercing roar with stomp to put enemies in a 97.5% slowed knockdown state for easy ground finishers. all this, combined with true roar. so, he should probably have 3 stars for support/cc too.
25:26 Rhino main here, and I think Rhino's rating is a bit understated in my opinion. While I do agree that his killing power is low, but this can be offloaded to weapon's choice, Rhino heavily rely on the weapon to do the killing. But the survivability part, While revenant can still get cooked from neutral source of damage (e.g. Gas city, status damage), Rhino has literal I-frames on demand. and you do not want to skyrocket the iron skin number in high level as you're gonna get one-shoted anyway so your effort will be in vain. The I-frame from Rhino can be abused, literally ABUSED, slap on nourish plus energy nexus (zenurik pool regen can work just fine but I'm lazy to pop the operator out.), plus rolling guard? You have at least 6 seconds of I-frames, nourish regen your energy, then you can immediately cast again, if the situation is tight, roll to get 3 seconds of I-frame from rolling guard! Then the energy back up so you can cast iron skin again, Iron shrapnel can add more controllability to the situation as well. Not to mention his kit has roar in full effect and can subsume Nourish over his 1st, you can have a huge boost of damage on top of the I-frames that you're getting. In my opinion, one of my favorite buffing and daily game frame of all time, sure he may not be as strong as other such as Saryn, but he is definitely the most comfortable to use in every scenario.
I agree for the survivability, he deserves a 3 for sure. I want to clarify that I'm not taking into consideration helminth abilities when ranking Warframes. I only ranked them based on their base kit!
As someone who doesn't have nourish for subsume yet and I'm only playing warframes that benefit from weapons (Harrow/Ash main), wouldn't full strength with 4th augment for Iron Skin reset be better instead of 2nd augment? I want to start playing nourish Rhino as soon as I get the subsume, and there are not many Rhino mains talking about nourish subsume, which I think is perfect for him. I've mostly seen people play either the 2 million iron skin build or Kullervo melee subsume build.
This is the first time i see someone put nidus on S tier and that makes me happy also i think zephyr should at least get 2 stars on CC bcs her tornado does help ally to deal more damage and easy to use but overall is great tier list. It's somewhat different from the tier list taht people usually make
Thank you! I wanted to make something different because meta tier lists aren't that interesting to me. For Zephyr I'm not sure she deserves the 2 stars because her tornado is more a Killing Power thing for me so I only considered the CC it has. Her 2 does a similar thing (pulls enemies in one spot) and that's why she only got 1 star. Thank you for the suggestion 💜
@lordliborius i can see that when i use her my teammate just kill so fast that the tornado didn't get it't full value so i can see why it's 1 star but for solo play it's pretty helpful
As a Sevagoth main I'd like to bring out a few points. Sevagoth should have a 3 in killing power. His 2+1 combo when used with both augments can clear not just groups, but also entire sections of the map by itself due to its self replicating nature. His 1, especially with augment can more than double the damage you deal to an enemy since it multiplies final damage, and the augment also increases your Crit chance against affected enemies by an identical amount (scales off of strength in both cases) which makes him absurdly busted because he multiplicatively scales with roar (roar buffs final damage by x% which also gets increased after because of his 1 being a separate multiplier), and he does this for the whole team, which should also maybe earn him a 2 star in CC. Sadly I don't think Sevagoth deserves a 3 star in survivability, though he can self res indefinitely, his shadow is not immortal, and not having access to any other abilities while resurrecting means that at some point your shadow will just vanish from existence when it spawns(which only really happens in high endurance missions).
Mhh, that's true. He cannot die but he'll be stuck reviving all the time after a bit. Killing Power I need to test a bit more for the 3 stars, can you pass me your build (builds lmao) so I have a similar experience to the one you have with Sevagoth?
@ sure thing. The jist of it is getting a nuke a build without relying on a viral primer, though having one makes it much more consistent (I just don't like Priming in general and I still need to get a panzer vulpaphyla). Anyways: Archons all red: 4 regular 1 tau (more strength is always appreciated but I have to ration the taus) Mods: Brief respite Power drift Catalysing shields Equilibrium Blind rage Primed flow Streamline (flex slot, was originally transient fortitude but because the build already has more than enough strength and it's very spammy efficiency is very useful) Stretch(also flex depending on what you put in the other one. If transient is inserted primed continuity is a must or the Shadows/sow vanishes too quickly and gloom consumes too much) Shadow Haze Augment Dark Propagation augment Arcanes: Molt Augmented Arcane energise Subsume 4th with roar Shadow build (it's a bit thrown together because you barely have to use it and I formad for a damage build originally) Steel charge, Power drift(not in exilus because I'm broke) Boreals hatred Primed redirection Fortitude Adaptation Auguri accord Constitution (can replace this and power drift with PSF, survivability mods are fundamental) Rolling guard Primed redirection Arcane: Just aegis for now This build almost exclusively works in high enemy density situations. In regular star chart you get folded like an omelette because no DR, low hp, few enemies-->no energy orbs-->no ability spam to keep shield gate active. If there are few enemies the nuke needs you to first roar, then hit the enemy with the 1, then hit them once more (1, 2, 1 or 2, 1, 1) because the damage vulnerability is applied after the damage is done, once other shadows spawn from augment they will also detonate sow, so by then the enemies get hit with 4 instances of at least 25%HP true damage as well as exploding in a radius for that damage, 4 times over, and same for anyone around them. Big groups pretty much always get deleted, irrespective of level, or overguard since the damage is just too much. Enemies with damage attenuation are more problematic because the combo no longer works on them but the damage buff from roar, and the damage and Crit vulnerability (181% each at max Molt Aug) should help kill them quickly anyways. Hope that's helpful!
I have a suggestion. His shadow is actually an INSANE survivability layer and I’ll explain how. If you run preparation on his shadow to spawn with 100% energy everytime you use shadow. And run rolling guard on shadow you have almost an infinite source of s. 4s in shadow 3s with rolling guard. You can indefinitely switch in and out when your I frames expire and cannot be nullified out of your shadow. And everytime you go back into shadow you have 100% of shadow energy to continue casting abilities. You can also subsume condemn for shield gating which only costs me 6 energy with my build and works extremely well. (Idea taken from ketchpups sevagoth guide)
(Shadow also has insane damage and still insane clowd clearing abilities as death harvest still applies damage vulnerability and causes shadows to appear from the target after death to continuing biking the surrounding area. While the shadow claws can do millions of damage and one shot acolytes very easy. One shotted a level 300 violence before I got off today
Voruna in my opinion should be 7 stars because she has 3 star survivability and 3 star damage. Her 1 is a nutty ability 100% crit and status chance for melees plus guranteee slash procs, her 2 with the augment is spreading status in a 40m position around and her 3 constantly generates health orbs for you and your team. I think she’s top 5-10 in the game imo.
Also you need to consider koumei decrees when it comes to survivability and killing power, she is hands down the best level cap frame because of those decrees. You can’t say in higher level play she looses killing power when it literally just scales infinitely, +decrees work with operator so she’s just strait up immortal… like literally with last grasp she can’t die.
That's true, but for almost every "normal" mission she's still going to struggle to even complete the challenges. Also you get random decrees from her 2 and that's not something you can rely on. It's not a buff you get immediately the moment you activate the ability and that's why she scorew that low (for me ofc). Last gasp can be used by almost all Warframes so I wouldn't consider it, Madurai + last gasp = free revive on everyone. I really hope She gets some changes soon so I can rank her higher because she looks super cute and I really want to play as her!
@ but I’m talking for long endurance/level cap scenarios, yeah she struggles in other areas and medium level content but she does one thing better than any other frame, and that gives her a big step up. Last grasp is a free revive on anyone yes, to a certain level, after even level 500 it gets impossible to revive yourself in missions with grasp. Not every frame needs to be good for every scenario, but few frames are best at one thing, and that thing being such a big part of the game. Plus she’s one of the very first frames new players will gain access to being right after sayas and being a 24hr craft, and in that she’s a very good low level nuke. So I think she just needs a bit more credit. Her 3rd ability sucks though, and her first and 4th are a bit too similar, but I can’t deny she’s The level cap queen.
Lavos 0 survability wtf ?? Hes fucking immortal i play with 1.5k armor 2.5k hp and did some 1.5-2 hour long runs. Its most immortal frame i got jes my main fram for HARD CONTENT !!! Emm now i know no point of watching this to end or subbing wont we returning.
Your opinion isn't wrong, but the reasoning of his ranking Lavos low isn't wrong either. It's a kinda personal thing. Health tanking is by design riskier than any other form of survivability, and when you consider the average watcher of tier lists (newer to mid game players) recommending a health tank or one as complex (in the good way) as lavos, isn't necessarily the best move. I highly doubt that Liborious actually thinks Lavos can't tank, just that there are options that do it safer (hyldrin, mag, etc etc - those are only my personal examples) and easier. But if 1 ranking shuts down a creator for you, it's probably best you aren't watching
Exactly, if the only way to tank IS with your stats (and you are not Inaros) then it's not tanking. Also Lavos has no ability that increases survivability, main reason why he got 0. He sure can stay alive with Umbra mods and adaptation, but it's not unique to Lavos so I can't take it into consideration
I would love to discuss this tier list more if you want to, so what I'm thinking is live streaming (YT or Twitch) and have a conversation that way! Let me know if you're interested and I'll post more in the community tab if this ends up being a thing.
Also wanted to say thank you for all the comments and suggestions! See you soon💜
rhino's survivability scales with enemy level, since the damage dealt by enemies during the first 3 seconds of the cast is converted directly into iron skin health. if they're level 10 and they deal 500 damage to it, 500 overguard is added. if they're level 9999 and deal 50 million damage to it, 50 million overguard is added.
that means, at any enemy level, it will take at least another 3 seconds for the same level of enemy to cut through that iron skin again, AND THAT'S IF YOU STAND STILL. in reality, with parkour, killing, and CC, your iron skin should last more like 20 or 30 seconds. however, the piercing roar augment reduces enemy damage by 80% effectively making your iron skin last 5 times longer, and buffed reinforcing stomp heals your iron skin by a %, so you can just get one big one and then never have to recast it- just % heal it. millions of overguard being restored in one press.
he should definitely have 3 stars for survivability.
furthermore, rhino stomp has a base 25m radius and has no line of sight requirements, making it one of the best CC abilities in the game, and for some reason, even though it doesn't raise them, the 97.5% slow effect still affects high priority targets such as acolytes, demolysts and necramechs. also, piercing roar knocks down all enemies and reduces their damage by 80% (so kinda like 80%DR or the team), again with no line of sight check. you can combine piercing roar with stomp to put enemies in a 97.5% slowed knockdown state for easy ground finishers. all this, combined with true roar.
so, he should probably have 3 stars for support/cc too.
Mhhhh, those are indeed very good points. I think 8 stars could be ok for Rhino
25:26 Rhino main here, and I think Rhino's rating is a bit understated in my opinion.
While I do agree that his killing power is low, but this can be offloaded to weapon's choice, Rhino heavily rely on the weapon to do the killing.
But the survivability part, While revenant can still get cooked from neutral source of damage (e.g. Gas city, status damage), Rhino has literal I-frames on demand. and you do not want to skyrocket the iron skin number in high level as you're gonna get one-shoted anyway so your effort will be in vain. The I-frame from Rhino can be abused, literally ABUSED, slap on nourish plus energy nexus (zenurik pool regen can work just fine but I'm lazy to pop the operator out.), plus rolling guard? You have at least 6 seconds of I-frames, nourish regen your energy, then you can immediately cast again, if the situation is tight, roll to get 3 seconds of I-frame from rolling guard! Then the energy back up so you can cast iron skin again, Iron shrapnel can add more controllability to the situation as well. Not to mention his kit has roar in full effect and can subsume Nourish over his 1st, you can have a huge boost of damage on top of the I-frames that you're getting. In my opinion, one of my favorite buffing and daily game frame of all time, sure he may not be as strong as other such as Saryn, but he is definitely the most comfortable to use in every scenario.
I agree for the survivability, he deserves a 3 for sure. I want to clarify that I'm not taking into consideration helminth abilities when ranking Warframes. I only ranked them based on their base kit!
@@lordliborius Then it's my apology, I was over-excited for the opportunity to share my build XD.
@R_Y_M_D oh Absolutely no worries 🤣 share it if you want!
i kinda do the same thing with harrows 4th
As someone who doesn't have nourish for subsume yet and I'm only playing warframes that benefit from weapons (Harrow/Ash main), wouldn't full strength with 4th augment for Iron Skin reset be better instead of 2nd augment? I want to start playing nourish Rhino as soon as I get the subsume, and there are not many Rhino mains talking about nourish subsume, which I think is perfect for him. I've mostly seen people play either the 2 million iron skin build or Kullervo melee subsume build.
This is the first time i see someone put nidus on S tier and that makes me happy also i think zephyr should at least get 2 stars on CC bcs her tornado does help ally to deal more damage and easy to use but overall is great tier list. It's somewhat different from the tier list taht people usually make
Thank you! I wanted to make something different because meta tier lists aren't that interesting to me. For Zephyr I'm not sure she deserves the 2 stars because her tornado is more a Killing Power thing for me so I only considered the CC it has. Her 2 does a similar thing (pulls enemies in one spot) and that's why she only got 1 star. Thank you for the suggestion 💜
@lordliborius i can see that when i use her my teammate just kill so fast that the tornado didn't get it't full value so i can see why it's 1 star but for solo play it's pretty helpful
@willton121_ yes, she's great a Killing 😎
As a Sevagoth main I'd like to bring out a few points.
Sevagoth should have a 3 in killing power. His 2+1 combo when used with both augments can clear not just groups, but also entire sections of the map by itself due to its self replicating nature. His 1, especially with augment can more than double the damage you deal to an enemy since it multiplies final damage, and the augment also increases your Crit chance against affected enemies by an identical amount (scales off of strength in both cases) which makes him absurdly busted because he multiplicatively scales with roar (roar buffs final damage by x% which also gets increased after because of his 1 being a separate multiplier), and he does this for the whole team, which should also maybe earn him a 2 star in CC.
Sadly I don't think Sevagoth deserves a 3 star in survivability, though he can self res indefinitely, his shadow is not immortal, and not having access to any other abilities while resurrecting means that at some point your shadow will just vanish from existence when it spawns(which only really happens in high endurance missions).
Mhh, that's true. He cannot die but he'll be stuck reviving all the time after a bit. Killing Power I need to test a bit more for the 3 stars, can you pass me your build (builds lmao) so I have a similar experience to the one you have with Sevagoth?
@ sure thing. The jist of it is getting a nuke a build without relying on a viral primer, though having one makes it much more consistent (I just don't like Priming in general and I still need to get a panzer vulpaphyla).
Anyways:
Archons all red: 4 regular 1 tau (more strength is always appreciated but I have to ration the taus)
Mods:
Brief respite
Power drift
Catalysing shields
Equilibrium
Blind rage
Primed flow
Streamline (flex slot, was originally transient fortitude but because the build already has more than enough strength and it's very spammy efficiency is very useful)
Stretch(also flex depending on what you put in the other one. If transient is inserted primed continuity is a must or the Shadows/sow vanishes too quickly and gloom consumes too much)
Shadow Haze Augment
Dark Propagation augment
Arcanes:
Molt Augmented
Arcane energise
Subsume 4th with roar
Shadow build (it's a bit thrown together because you barely have to use it and I formad for a damage build originally)
Steel charge,
Power drift(not in exilus because I'm broke)
Boreals hatred
Primed redirection
Fortitude
Adaptation
Auguri accord
Constitution (can replace this and power drift with PSF, survivability mods are fundamental)
Rolling guard
Primed redirection
Arcane:
Just aegis for now
This build almost exclusively works in high enemy density situations. In regular star chart you get folded like an omelette because no DR, low hp, few enemies-->no energy orbs-->no ability spam to keep shield gate active.
If there are few enemies the nuke needs you to first roar, then hit the enemy with the 1, then hit them once more (1, 2, 1 or 2, 1, 1) because the damage vulnerability is applied after the damage is done, once other shadows spawn from augment they will also detonate sow, so by then the enemies get hit with 4 instances of at least 25%HP true damage as well as exploding in a radius for that damage, 4 times over, and same for anyone around them. Big groups pretty much always get deleted, irrespective of level, or overguard since the damage is just too much. Enemies with damage attenuation are more problematic because the combo no longer works on them but the damage buff from roar, and the damage and Crit vulnerability (181% each at max Molt Aug) should help kill them quickly anyways.
Hope that's helpful!
Thank youu! I'll have to try this 😎
I have a suggestion. His shadow is actually an INSANE survivability layer and I’ll explain how. If you run preparation on his shadow to spawn with 100% energy everytime you use shadow. And run rolling guard on shadow you have almost an infinite source of s. 4s in shadow 3s with rolling guard. You can indefinitely switch in and out when your I frames expire and cannot be nullified out of your shadow. And everytime you go back into shadow you have 100% of shadow energy to continue casting abilities. You can also subsume condemn for shield gating which only costs me 6 energy with my build and works extremely well. (Idea taken from ketchpups sevagoth guide)
(Shadow also has insane damage and still insane clowd clearing abilities as death harvest still applies damage vulnerability and causes shadows to appear from the target after death to continuing biking the surrounding area. While the shadow claws can do millions of damage and one shot acolytes very easy. One shotted a level 300 violence before I got off today
Voruna in my opinion should be 7 stars because she has 3 star survivability and 3 star damage. Her 1 is a nutty ability 100% crit and status chance for melees plus guranteee slash procs, her 2 with the augment is spreading status in a 40m position around and her 3 constantly generates health orbs for you and your team. I think she’s top 5-10 in the game imo.
I'm currently doing some testing, She is very fun to play with, can't argue with that 🤣
never played lavos in his life
was about to say hes my main frame hes fuckign immortal like my hardest to kill frame..... Now i know this list is useless.
42 minutes of perfection
Thanks chef 🫣
Reminder: Do not be upset by someone’s opinion 👍👍
Yeah, I'm fine with criticism but the constructive one
Also you need to consider koumei decrees when it comes to survivability and killing power, she is hands down the best level cap frame because of those decrees. You can’t say in higher level play she looses killing power when it literally just scales infinitely, +decrees work with operator so she’s just strait up immortal… like literally with last grasp she can’t die.
That's true, but for almost every "normal" mission she's still going to struggle to even complete the challenges. Also you get random decrees from her 2 and that's not something you can rely on. It's not a buff you get immediately the moment you activate the ability and that's why she scorew that low (for me ofc).
Last gasp can be used by almost all Warframes so I wouldn't consider it, Madurai + last gasp = free revive on everyone.
I really hope She gets some changes soon so I can rank her higher because she looks super cute and I really want to play as her!
@ but I’m talking for long endurance/level cap scenarios, yeah she struggles in other areas and medium level content but she does one thing better than any other frame, and that gives her a big step up. Last grasp is a free revive on anyone yes, to a certain level, after even level 500 it gets impossible to revive yourself in missions with grasp. Not every frame needs to be good for every scenario, but few frames are best at one thing, and that thing being such a big part of the game. Plus she’s one of the very first frames new players will gain access to being right after sayas and being a 24hr craft, and in that she’s a very good low level nuke. So I think she just needs a bit more credit. Her 3rd ability sucks though, and her first and 4th are a bit too similar, but I can’t deny she’s The level cap queen.
@ plus she’s the only frame that makes playing super high level operator endurance possible.
Kullervo is a mini nuke warframe, Voruna is the real melee god
I have to spend some time playing as Voruna, I need to know 👀
Lavos 0 survability wtf ?? Hes fucking immortal i play with 1.5k armor 2.5k hp and did some 1.5-2 hour long runs. Its most immortal frame i got jes my main fram for HARD CONTENT !!! Emm now i know no point of watching this to end or subbing wont we returning.
Health tanking is the worst form of survivability
Your opinion isn't wrong, but the reasoning of his ranking Lavos low isn't wrong either. It's a kinda personal thing. Health tanking is by design riskier than any other form of survivability, and when you consider the average watcher of tier lists (newer to mid game players) recommending a health tank or one as complex (in the good way) as lavos, isn't necessarily the best move. I highly doubt that Liborious actually thinks Lavos can't tank, just that there are options that do it safer (hyldrin, mag, etc etc - those are only my personal examples) and easier. But if 1 ranking shuts down a creator for you, it's probably best you aren't watching
Exactly, if the only way to tank IS with your stats (and you are not Inaros) then it's not tanking. Also Lavos has no ability that increases survivability, main reason why he got 0. He sure can stay alive with Umbra mods and adaptation, but it's not unique to Lavos so I can't take it into consideration
You have failed to live up to the Magi Magic Magnetic Goddess's expectations. L Tier list
Noooo 😭 She scores 69 stars in my heart