SSL Origin Preamps vs SSL Plugin Preamps
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, I compare the sound of the SSL Origin preamp to the Brainworx SSL E channel strip.
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Your videos are really helping me to make the best decisions. There no way I would be able to drive to Sweetwater or anywhere else to hear those differences. Thank you for making those videos available to us.
Happy to help!
I remember mixing my songs with lots of plugins, eqs, comps, etc trying to get an 80s power sound until I decided to use the Waves, yes the WAVES SSL channel (not the new one) and suddenly the world opened to me. The sound I get by just using the SSL is amazing, the EQ is so fricking musical and the Compressor is so on point and natural sounding that I practically use it on every track as if I was using a console and when I need some more surgical EQ I just throw the Studio One EQ in and make the special changes I need and also If I need to compress vocals or other instruments with more control I use the Waves CLA 76 or in some cases the powerful sounding Waves DBX 160 and that's practically all I need. I bet at least 80% of people saying "ohh you didn't compare it to the latest firmware of the plugin or this or that or this plugin is better and faithful to the original ssl" have never even used a real SSL console in their lives and never will. So they can only "imagine" an original sound and have never been exposed for loooong periods of time to a real SSL console to remember all the bits and flavors of the original thing and to be able to notice the differences and just bash on the plugin for the sake of it. Great presentation and thank you! I would recommend watching the Josh West Mix channel and a video of his called "Analog Compressors vs Digital Plugins. Which is better?" which clearly says that in this case hardware was better obviously, but found that between the plugins the Waves compressosr were better and the closest to the original hardware compared to the UAD plugins. And this guy works in a massive studio with millions of harware and original stuff, but you can guess what the comment section is all about "naahh but you made the mistake of not using the latest firmware of the UAD bla bla bla". Man, I would put my money on what a guy that really works with THE original stuff everyday of his life says than on the word of people that are making music in a bedroom just like me lol.
I hear you and I know Josh very well. He and I spoken personally. I can tell you myself from someone who work with both plugins and hardware every single day that there is a MAJOR difference. Josh would tell you the same thing. There is a reason he works in a studio with a 250K console and hundreds of thousands of dollars of hardware. Its not "better" its different and if you watch my videos on this channel, you will hear me say that over and over again.
@@MixingMusicAnalog yes, and as I state everytime to my friends and musicians, it's the song and the heart of the production what makes a great tune, not the expensive gear. I've heard songs recorded and mixed at expensive studios that sound lifeless and tasteless while I,'ve heard tunes that kick ass and were recorded with a normal interface and mixed in the box. And the other way around too. Everything has its own context and if something sounds good then it sounds good, no matter what, no matter if you used plugins or a $10.000 USD hardware, noone will notice. At the end of the day what matters is what you feel is better for your workflow and what inspires you. One day I'll be the owner of a nice SSL console but because of the workflow that pushes you to use your ears and not be staring at a screen the entire time. Cheers and thank you for all the effort you put on this channel. Keep the good work!
I am amongst the 30% that is subscribed. Hail to thee
Well thank you...LOL
i love 5:27!
I would agree with you completely!
That TH-cam people can really see some sample products!
which doesn't always work for the simple person and I'm still a new mixer!
And it is healthy to see other people what is your opinion about the different things👍
Thanks for watching. If you are a new mixer, then check out my other website
www.homerecordingmadeeasy.com
I heard the difference while not even paying attention, it literally caught my attention, listening on a $20 USB headset. It was like my ears got immediate relief and could bask in that 3D depth - every track can be heard clearly. It's not subtle, it's night and day. And I love making musing and mixing ITB, and I get beautiful results, but oh lordi lord that depth is magical.... It will be interesting to do a comparison when loading a plugin on each track and selecting a different channel emulation per track.
Thanks for watching!
I agree it was about a 10% difference, and the main takeaway is that both mixes sounded analog to me. The Brainworx SSL E has more of a mid-range energy, while the Origin has more bottom and top, the origin has a nice smooth top, but perhaps the 10% difference might be that the Brainworx emulates a classic SSL console from the 1980s, while the Origin is brand new fresh off the lot SSL technology, and craftmanship. Either way, both sound great, and with a good skilled engineer working the mix, no one even with trained ears would be able to say with 100% certainty that they can tell if the Brainworx mix is or is not analog if they weren't clued in beforehand. I am glad you did this shootout, and yes the BX Console SSL 4000 E is my favorite channel strip. 😎😎
Thanks for checking out the video
I have a 1987 SSL 4000 E/G and it’s not that. The actual consoles just sound better and it’s essentially the same outcome with the vintage 4K. Remember, the Origin’s aim is a take on a modern ssl 4k sound.
Thank you good sir for taking the time to compare.
Any time!
I love your attitude in this lol.
Over the years, your video personality and affect have kind of evolved - kind of like a teacher who went from being an aspiring naaive optimist to one who is still as passionate as ever, but has seen all of the bullshit. Calling out all of the future objections before they even arise. I appreciate you man!
Hey, thank you so very much! That means a lot to me
You always have such informative and thought out videos.!! Thanks for all you do.
I appreciate that!
Since all those plugins came out, even years ago with the UAD cards, I always thought that plugins could benefit from an analog front-end, be it a summing mixer or other type of hardware, just for the depth and better 3D stereo image, which is crucial when mixing for panning and creating a good soundstage. This video tells it clear!!😎💪🏻
Thanks for watching!
Totally agree about the piano and vocals getting wider. Add CTC-1 Console Shaper to the SSL plugins and you've cracked it! 😎
Thanks for watching!
Hey Dave ! Thanks for taking time to create and share this follow up video. The first thing I thought I noticed is the openness of the console and the clarity of the vocals; it's as if there's a brightness that comes across from the console. The plug-in sounds good as well but IF I had a choice, I'd definitely prefer the console and the cumulative effect it brings. By the way, maybe you should try your luck on the local lottery; you said some would say "if only you had used ..." and you were so right 🤣. Thanks again, Uncle Dave for sharing and caring.
Thanks for watching!
What's up Dave. First off thank you for putting in the work for this demonstration. I can hear that difference you were describing before you started describing. But I also heard something else with the depth and separation that you were talking about it was clearly a difference but as you let the track play my ears got used to hearing the The depth and separation from the plug-in and then when you played the tracks off the SSL console then it was a difference. My conclusion is neither one sounds bad I wish that people would pay more attention to the craft of mixing then always worrying about gear Just my opinion keep coming with the videos.
Great points and I have said the same thing probably 10,000 times on this channel over the last 2 years...LOL. Its not about the gear but your skills. However, the gear does matter and that is what I am learning as well.
Your comment is the most lucid and should be at the top of the comments on this video. It's not the tool that makes a good mix, but creativity. ☺️
Again one of your best videos buddy
Thanks again!
Uncle Dave, delivering the goods once again
Thank you my friend!!
nice comparison. first listen with eyes closed I really couldn't tell when you were cutting from plug-in version and ssl version--hard to separate a difference in the performance from a difference in the processing maybe. Watching the changes I think I could hear what seems like more harmonic content--like the vocal was almost doubled with more low and high harmonics but it almost sounded artificial like a subtle octave effect or even a slap-back echo with a very short delay. It seems like it is "doing a thing" and whether or not you like that thing is up to you. where I heard the most difference is the section around 13:43 where the vocal in the plugin maybe sounds flat or normal then the switch to the ssl sounds like it has an effect on it to the point where I think I would probably try to tame whatever is going on there--I like the high end but not the low end--as these aren't mixed you would probably make some changes to both. The channel strip tracks seem like they just need some eq love. It would be interesting to compare a final mix of each.
I appreciate you watching!
I do a ton of hybrid mixing.(mostly Neve stuff)
I will say your description of it being a small difference is spot on. In the real world I have noticed my Neve gear gets me to where I want much faster than using the plugin because of that 10 to 20 percent. It's just a point where the coloration and smoothness of not having foldback distortion or aliasing/niquist limitations doesn't make things sound as harsh or as boxed in.
Thanks for watching and I agree with you! :)
Love your Energie Dave ;)
Thanks you
Only half way through the video but the PA SSL plug-in smears everything and clarity suffers tremendously especially on drums, when you bypass, it all clears up again. Watching on a tv too.
Subscribed.Was watching to see how long it would take you to realise your overhead panning mistake 😂you had me shouting at the tv 😂
Right gonna watch the other half. Good work. Great video.
Thanks for watching
the ssl print sounds fantastic
Thanks for watching!
I think the SSL print sounds more colored. I wonder should we all go buy 2 channels of analog 500 series channel strips and run our tracks through them reprint them to get that console sound? This reminds me when we had the Alesis ADAT and we went out and bought tube pre-amps to track with to warm up the tracks.
I’ll actually do this often - print all tracks back through either Neve or API preamps (if the recordings were made into an interface with no other hardware) - makes a difference for me!
You can do that but it takes a long time to run every track back in 1 at a time. That will slow down your workflow considerably.
hi! Is it possible to buy one preamp and print every single track to the project if we dont have money for console?
Yes, you can certainly do that. It will take a lot of time but it can be done
thanks for reply. Could u suggest what should I buy?@@MixingMusicAnalog
could you suggest what should i buy? thanks for reply:)@@MixingMusicAnalog
I heard the difference exactly like you described.
Right away I could tell the piano sounded better on the SSL print. There is certainly more separation, clarity and focus with the SSL print as well.
Plugin wasn't bad at all, but didn't have what I mentioned.
Thanks for watching!
….love..”I know what you’re going to say”….. I do think the ssl native plug8ns are the best ones but recognise the difference is measurably (by my unscientific ears) more between plugin and origin. It’s the spread, depth etc of the analogue. I agree, the gap is less than the last video, but absolutely there. There is quite a surprising difference IMHO…and I’d give a 20% mark for ‘improvement’. Great vids, great channel, as always❤😊
Btw, even notice difference over IPad speakers….
Thanks for watching!
The SSL Native channel strip 2 does not model the preamp so there is no saturation.
There's no saturation on the SSL native plugins (channel strips and bus comp). They're very clean compared to waves/PA/UAD.
Sorry, yes, my mistake. I was thinking of the newer 4kb channel, but didn’t say that. Fair to use the pre emulation…still prefer the native plugins over others. 😉
Hi Dave - practically you're right with this 3D sounding thing. But if I'm tracking something with the SSL Pure Drive Quad (so with the pre's from the Origin), and using the SSL native plugins, the difference almost disappears comparing to a console sound. 😉
That is very interesting
Enjoy these videos. thank you Dave. On this though I pick up a small DB increase in the SSL Origin print. Still sounds great but wondering whether the SSL Native Channel Strip 2 with E channel EQ selected might have been better. Once again thanks.
I doubt it and I am not going to compare it to several plugins. One and done. Someone else can do that video...;)
I'm only listening through headphones using DSoniq Realphones but here's what I hear. Even before the drums kick in, it seems the vocal sits better with the SSL Origin. Everything sounds a tiny bit thicker with the plugins, though I don't say that as a positive or negative. The result is overall the SSL Origin sounds more exciting and airy, 10% pre-mixed if that makes sense. SSL Origin sounds brighter too, and I think I'm hearing the snare with a bit more saturation (I think of it as a subtle squeeze). I think the vocals do sit better in the mix with the Origin, again I think it's because there's more space in the low mids. I can hear what you mean with the width and depth too. Not sure if what I'm hearing is the result of the saturation differences, preamp curves (if any), summing, or whatever else it is. Still of the opinion that the mixing engineer matters the most in the end, but I like what the Origin is doing.
Good analysis. And OF COURSE, its the skills not the gear that makes the most difference and I say that on this channel over and over and over again. That is obvious. At this point I should not even have to say that. LOL
Great comparison and the differences are audible on my MacBook Pro. I love Brainworx SSL E, but the only things not modeled in the plugin are sonic variations induced by lengths of cables to and from a hardware SSL... and any electronics in the audio path. Regardless, I want a hardware SSL mixer.
Thanks for watching!
For plugins, the lower mid is the problem especially when you pile them up. That can make you feel more or less clarity, so select your analog emulated plugins carefully and use less. I don’t use plugins because of what it emulates but how they sound. so for me, I wouldn’t put SSL plugins in all my tracks maybe just my mix busses for clarity sake (coming from an SSL user)
Thanks for your thoughts and for supporting the channel!
Hi, Im listening on my studio speakers, and there's a small but noticeable difference.
Now, what I think is, that if the song was tracked properly, on a good analogue console or at least great analogue preamps, then and only then one go and work things out trough the plugins, that is where all the magic comes.
Andrew Scheps and others, mix in the box, but the tracking came from great studio analogue gear with excellent musicians and great engineers, and after the mix, it all goes out again to a great mastering engineer probably on "out of the box" mastering chains. I mean, its all valid as you say, as long as we know how and what to do on each stage. - hope it makes sense.
I'm kind of new to mixing, but I'm an experienced enough musician to realize the importance of tracking things right- So that's where I focused all my energy and some investment -to be able to do great tracking in the first place. I'm aiming to go hybrid sometime soon, tracking few key tracks with a cool channel strip I just aquire. Later I'll get some stereo units for sale me mix bus processing, and that's about it, then I can send things out for mastering on an analogue outboard mastering chain somewhere - cause that's something I really don't want do invest myself, as this is a whole new set of tools and gear.
For now I've been dipping my toes on tracking our own band the proper way, I also mix and master in the box..next step will be to send out the mix for mastering. I'm not in a hurry, cause stuff is sounding already pretty good.
Well said and thanks for sharing. If you are new to mixing, here is a resource for you that may help. www.homerecordingmadeeasy.com
Hey Uncle Dave, 2 questions:
1. When you say you hit the console hard; are you pretty much hitting it where each channel is flickering around +18 on the pfl meters?
2. Are you leaving the gain knobs (not faders) at unity and pushing into it from the daw or are you sending at a lower level and using the line amp on each channel to bring it up till you're flickering around +18
Coming out of the DAW pretty conservative and using the gain knob coming into the console to gain it up.
Awesome, thanks for your reply. My life is a little more complete knowing this.
I agree. SSL plug-ins do pretty much sound the same. I have the BX console, UA, and Waves versions, but I have to say, if u haven’t tried the SSL native ones, especially the SSL 4K B, trust me, it’s night and day in comparison to those models in my opinion. I would love to see you do a comparison with the board and the SSL Native channel strip.
I have tired the SSL 4Kb and its not "night & day" to my ears. Is it a little different? Sure, night and day? Not even close, at least to me. All these channel strips sound very good and NONE of them sound like a real console, exactly.
I agree. I own all the SSL plugins mentioned, and the branded SSL 4k sounds the best, especially the eq. Being mostly in the UA world, I just assumed it would be the best, but I was wrong.
I think printing a stereo back into the session makes a more accurate compare. There's too much digital conversion happening from the console and ur using the summing of the software. A stereo print from the console would much closer to reality imo
Ok thanks
so is there a plugin that can the three dimensional character that is missing?
I dont understand your question, sorry
Good stuff
Appreciate it
This is a great video.. that ssl console is one of a kind . The plug-ins do help. I want to hear the raw and plug-ins difference.. hopefully one day I can get one of those consoles.. Hey can u do one of these test with a SSL Six?
Nope, SSL will not send me a BIGSIX. I already tried.
I think with the plugins you might have to add other plugins, but you could still maybe achieve the same sound by adding saturation and stereo widening plugins to get more of a feeling of depth.
You would have to add other plugins for sure but it will never sound the same as a console. I work with both every day and there is no comparison in my opinion
@@MixingMusicAnalog Yes, because first, the last thing you want to do with plugins is "stereo widening", it's like un- gluing the mix making elements go all over the place, and also good luck with plugins saturation hype. It's like going to Casino. 1 time out of 10 will actually work.
I have two traducers (added components that emulates low frequencies) installed on my chair that translates the low end slightly more on the Plugin Alliance plugin than your console mixing board. Audibly through the monitors i am translating it to be a difference. I feel it and hear it. Maybe because of the audio translation through TH-cam that it don't appear it that much..? It's not a true live experience . That's my take and experience. Slight difference however marginal. The plug in adds slight depth and with and boosts 20-120 range. Digital 1 Analog 1 They both sound awesome but the print is more alive though. The more time I'm on listening both versions the more i find differences.
Thanks for watching!
I subcribed thanks for the info unk
Thanks for the sub!
The origin print sounds wider and more open on the top end.
Thanks for watching!
What I’m coming to learn is a plugin can sound like the corresponding hardware but rarely achieves the depth.
That is a pretty accurate conclusion
That was really cool and very interesting. Can you do the empirical labs stressor? Thank you very much for a very interesting and entertaining video.
Possibly!
Origin all day and congrats to PA for there plugins
Thanks for watching!
These videos are helping me decide to purchase or not
Great! I am here to try to help
Thanks, another great video and interesting comparison :)
For me - listening to the atm with yt through the old Sennheiser HDR140, the difference is very noticeable and I dare say that not only in terms of size. I like hw much better in this example, but since I can't afford it, I'll stay content with plugin emulation, lol :D
But either way, even for forced-to-be-in-box guys like me, it's a very, very useful comparison. I believe that in order to improve, I need to keep in mind the impression of what is missing in order to try to achieve it using plugins.
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for your support!
I hear the same as you Dave.
Great!
Well - surely it wasn’t blind test for me, but I watched the video just hanging out before the gig with my iPhone, no headphones, just iPhone speaker…and I heard a bit of a difference.
You must have magic ears to hear it on an iphone. LOL
@@MixingMusicAnalog - for sure I don’t. Maybe in a blind test it’d be different…or maybe we underestimate iPhone speakers 😀
It's not the speakers on a phone or laptop, it's the ears that hear the difference. In this case blind testing\hearing - the difference would still be distinguishable.
@@matovrecords115 - I revisited the video at home on my HD600 and the audio interface. On one hand I heard the difference but rather when changing from "real" ssl to the plugin, and not necessarily the other way - so I was able hear "worsening" not "improving" of the sound..could be that my ears are actually untrained for these particular nuances as I'm a musician, not a sound engineer. Again - a blind test would be the best...and I'm not sure how much TH-cam degrades the sound.
It´s a shame you sold your Fusion, because I would be curious of the sound between the console, and the Fusion. But, your video of the Fusion, and the Fusion Plugins showed me that the Fusion had more depth, similar to the console, which is the reason I bought a Fusion. :)
The sound between the console and the Fusion? thats not a fair comparison in my opinion. If someone thinks that the Fusion sounds like a full console, then they are totally mis-informed.
🙂👍
Thanks for watching!
Same old same old ! Same old differences between hardware and software !
They just have to get the spatialisation right and we're good to go. Thanks for the comparison Dave !
Yep same old same old and these types of videos is what most people want to see because whenever I do one, they become my most viewed videos. So you guys want it, I'll give it to you. :)
@@MixingMusicAnalog Yes i stopped to rethink after typing that, its not a reference to seeing these videos, they are very much needed and appreciated.
Just a reference to the disapointing outcome of plugins when compared to hardware, and how we're still not there yet.
There's always the same thing with these plugin's Vs. Hardware units: it's like someone put a blanket over the song. The high's are sterile, the clarity gone, the depth and the drum kick lacks punch. Yes it's 10% put 10% can be the difference between 100 or 100M records sold, or 100 and 100M views on youtube. I't's not just about the sound, it's about feeling, emotions, soft yet hard enough, wide yet not to wide etc. Plugin's are great to some degree. The combo of cold, dark plugins plus alive, exciting hardware is the way to go. It's like with couples ... Two singers will not work long term. A singer and a lawyer, yes. A doctor and a painter - yes etc. :))
Thanks for watching!
Ok I know you said it but I'm gonna be "that guy for a minute" 😂 Doesn't the Origin have a "Superanalogue" preamp with the addition of the new Puredrive FET design? I think the Superanalogue was introduced in the 9000 series consoles. That said, I don't think there is that big a difference between the BX 9000 and 4000 for this comparison. If anything the 9000 might be cleaner. Great video! I think it shows pretty clearly that the console does have a bit of extra sauce you get "for free" just by running through the preamps vs using a bunch of plugins to get close to the same effect. Personally, I think channel strip plugins are too clunky to work with and the console is far better workflow.
The Origin does NOT have the Super Analog preamp, it has the Pure Drive which is a totally new design based on the combination of preamps from the past. As I said, which plugin I would have used would have made little to no difference, in my opinion
@@MixingMusicAnalog Very interesting. After I posted my comment I realized that I should have said something along the lines of "of course I could be totally wrong." I agree that the plugin used makes little difference in this comparison.
I'd say the improvement is closer to 20-30%
Thanks for watching!
eyes closed they sound the same the depth is different when listening but eyes closed, no it sounds the same
Iff that is what YOU hear, then fine....stick with the plugins.
I didn't even had to listen it in my studio to hear the difference. The difference is HUGE listening it on my Xiaomi phone... ANALOG RULES. plugins are starting to disappoint me more and more over time and every day it gets worse instead... Anyone agree with me?
Thanks for watching!