Fender Custom Shop and American Vintage ii, how big is the difference?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- Today I talk about the Fender American Vintage ii 63 Telecaster and a Custom Shop 1960 Telecaster Custom - what makes them different and what can you expect from each?
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0:00 Intro and Disclaimer
1:15 Custom Shop Overview
2:48 American Vintage ii Overview
4:05 Sound Comparisons
8:35 Let's talk about the pickups
9:47 Maybe it was inevitable
10:59 Wrapping things up! - เพลง
Can’t believe how good the surf green sounds to my ears. But the longer I’ve played, the more I’ve learned that feel is everything.
That is the conundrum, the feel is such a big part - I'd argue it's most important.
Would love that vintage II. Love your videos, Jim! No nonsense and reliable advice.
I love listening to your playing, it's a Saturday morning and with coffee, this is a great way to start the day. I liked the Custom Shop sound, but you are right, the AV2 is more nasal and maybe accurate to spec.
As a techie, less of a player, I really think that the attention to detail of a custom or semi-custom guitar is a mind-blowing feeling in the hand. As much as I don't subscribe to the tonewood in solidbodies, the idea of making the player "feel comfortable and open their senses" due to shape, size, colour, and workmanship *will* impact the sound the audience hears due to the immersion. Like a well worn in set of leather jacket or glove. It moves better with the body, hangs better on the body.
Anyhoot, the counterpoint is that it is a bit of a luxury if you just want to play. You can play on anything and should likely prioritize that if you wish to improve. (a mantra I need to remind myself all the time)
Thank you Stephane I really do appreciate that compliment. Earlier in my guitar life, I never paid attention to the "feel" part - perhaps because I wasn't playing nearly the sheer amount of guitars I've played over the last decade. It's something that's hard to explain to people but there really is a value there when you find a guitar that really hands on time dedicated to it to ensure you are getting an outstanding instrument. The feel is so much of everything, and while the audience wouldn't care if I played a Custom Shop, AVii, or Squier Telecaster, having that feeling often inspires the best performance out of me and that alone makes this "addiction" of sorts we all seem to share worth it.
Jim, you made a fair assessment of the guitars you tested. I personally like the vintage tones, with some modern specs. For instance I love the larger frets. Yes, that’s a personal preference, but I can never walk away from those chime like tones, and growls of those vintage pick ups. Even the hum is a part of the nuance, and sounds that parlay into my journey back to tones that captured my imagination forever. Examples of this are Hendrix’s amazing solo’s, as well as SRV’s stinging powerhouse solo’s that still move me to the core of my being. Lastly, in honor of one of the last great Blues Player’s, Buddy Guy. He just rolled through North Carolina, and his performance, as well as one of his guitarist’s in the band just was simply other-worldly. His entire band was simply magnificent. When you can take a Fender guitar, and play through ole school Fender amps, without a plethora of pedals, and make a guitar scream, and sing like that. You’re a Legend, indeed.💎💎💎💎💎
I actually really like the big frets too, I have two guitars with vintage radius but big ole' frets on them and I find them very enjoyable to play. it's nice to have options so to speak and all invoke different parts of playing
@@AudiomoMusic , truth spoken…✨
Have the Pro II...love it. Getting my first CS...a lefty, used, '61 in shell pink. Coming tomorrow...can't wait. Also got an LSL TBoneOne a couple weeks ago, love it too.....now for the big compare...and to get used to living with only one kidney. LOL. The CS sounded fuller to me. TWO MONTHS LATER: I will go to my grave with the LSL...the CS is in a 'wow' class of it's own...but for everyday play, I prefer playing the LSL...tone, felt resonance, playability, weight, neck size. Can't say enough about the LSL. Even got a used set of the same LSL pups and put into a new HB TE62 and while the HB sounds/plays great...it's no LSL despite same pups...
Great review!! You made an excellent comparison between both, and I personally prefer the true vintage sound of the American Vintage II.
The custom shop's bridge pickup is mindblowing.
Yeah it’s super clear yet powerful when you want it.
The great achievement of Fender guitars on these days, is on the American Telecasters lineup, from Performer to Custom Shop, all are fantastic models, flawless details, and all sound like a Telecaster should sound.
Man I really like the way you play, you have some things that sounds like John Frusciante, sometimes foo fighters or queens of the stone age and also something different that comes from your own style! Keep going! Very interesting content as always
That's like the nicest thing anyones ever said on here man, I really appreciate it haha
I have the burgundy mist american original 60s tele! Was really suprised to see your custom shop looking just like my guitar. Burgundy mist, 60s tele, 9.5inch radius, nitro and double bound is a rare thing!
Hell yeah man that's great! Such a cool color you have great taste
playability custom shop is amazing..I had several.
The slippy high E is a real issue with rolled edges on custom shop strats. I've been through so many trying to find one that allowed for clean and accurate hammer-on/pull-offs on the high E
It's crazy to me because it's such an easy fix, you leave the bass side of the neck really rolled so thumb over is easier and more comfortable then just don't roll the treble side nearly as much and boom - problem solved.
I just bought both recently. Sorry to say that there’s no difference to me. My CS models are NOS so Relics may vary. The reason is that the new AV2 are so, so great. Best pickups ever, incredible feel. I’ve been buying AV and American Originals for years and they’ve never been this good.
I'd have to watch this another 10 times to make any real sense of it. Fabulous playing! My first impression was that you preferred playing the Custom Shop but I preferred the music from the Vintage - I think I heard better playing - nuanced vibrato or something from the chords on the last piece... maybe the frets allow you to compress the strings more.. as I said, I don't really know what I'm listening out for - just enjoyed the show!
just bought the vintage 2 in surf green it's lovely! my choice was between the pro 2 and the vintage 63 one , the pro is defenitely more confortable may be , but after a morning trying them both i went for the surf feeling ;D
It's fun to "fight" with a guitar sometimes, it's part of the appeal to vintage spec Fenders to me. I love em and congrats man!
Mine arrives Monday! Always love and heed to your reviews.
So.... how is it?
I returned it. The constant C up and down the neck just wasn't for me plus a couple of QC issues like credit card space between neck and pocket. However, exchanging for the '51 model @ under 7lbs (I'm old) so we shall see! Guess I have become addicted to coke can necks :) @@AudiomoMusic
@gregperkins7723 man I’ve seen that with the neck gap on several AV ii’s. Bummer about the quality control hope the 51 is a better fit and better made
Got my 6lb 10 oz '51 AVii in my lap. PURE HEAVEN! The neck pocket was off on this one too with the high E almost off the fret board at upper frets. Loosened the neck screws 1/3 turn and it literally "popped" back in place. All is perfection now and thanks sooo much for your fantastic reviews! @@AudiomoMusic
Personally I prefer the AVII tone here. It sounds warmer to me - the CS sounding on the brighter side.
I listened back to this the other day and I have to say, they really did a great job with these new pickups. The CS are more hifi sounding for sure, but I agree with your assessment.
Nice video. You can tell the custom has much hotter pickups. If I were going for vintage, I would choose the Vintage II. ...and I am seriously considering getting one.
It's a great guitar to have, I would just strongly recommend finding one in person - they are very hit or miss and not a guitar I would feel confident buying blind honestly.
Great comparission, I love vintage (or original) Fender series, I feel some minimal difference from this two Guitar, pickups in customshop are probably better
Agreed the custom shop sounds really great
The CS has a much fuller pallet of sound imo.. Even blindfolded, I woukd have chosen the CS soundwise.
Thanks For Sharing 🎸🎸 🎶
The 50's AO is also heavily rolled, I find much more so than CS's. The CS's seem to be rolled differently where the fret ends are more gradual in how they're rolled and the AO fret ends take a sudden dive. On my AO both E strings slip off easily.
I’m thinking it’s gotta just be inconsistent work from Fender then. I have an AO 60s here that is far less rolled than this or any other CS I’ve played and the e doesn’t slip outside of a FCS mustang I had for a bit
Great video! To my ears, the CS Tele sounded a tad beefier and that’s something that I like. But it’s not $2K better. In fact, I almost bought an AVII recently but to be honest, I was scared off by Fender’s QC issues which you don’t seem to get with CS models….
I am currently looking at a brand new AV ii listing right now for this exact guitar that has the Jimmy Page telecaster neck on it and the shop didn't even catch it. Fender USA is a total mess right now, I wouldn't buy anything sight unseen from them.
@@AudiomoMusic Totally agree. I've heard that Dealers are fed up with the current QC issues because they are at the sharp end with Customers but Fender has promised to improve and only time will tell....
It appears that the CS Tele has the Custom Shop Twisted Tele pickups. The sound coming out of the neck pickup is picking up wider range and putting out more sound. Fender says in the CS Twisted Tele product description " The neck pickup's taller bobbin is designed to accommodate more windings." If you want the Custom Shop Sound, it might be worth trying the CS pickups and see how that goes before thinking about getting the CS guitar.
@LinuxGruven This CS tele did not have twisted tele pickups, they were handwound 58s
I have 3 Fender USA Strats and two Custom Shops, as you would expect the Custom Shop samples
do have the next level of quality, but it took two attempts to get it right with one of them.
The diffrence between my USA ones and the Custom Shop are not night and day.
All the USA ones have been upgraded and had a full luthier setup, so play just as easily as the
Custom shop's.
Only the buyer can justify buying a Custom Shop, all i can say is don't expect too much or you
will be disappointed.
both guitars are great in my opinion. The rolled fret board edges at the CS Tele is a huge feature of course which is worth every extra dollar that Fender asks for CS guitars. What about intonation comparison, any issues?
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
Telecasters are a great guitar sounds of a tele are outstanding . I have nice strat now had it custom made in Ariozona 22 years ago made in the USA only now that its broken in its outstanding. Also when it was new it kicked ass.
I would very much like to hear the Green 63 with those 58 "Hand-wound" pick-ups if it could be arranged. Thanks though, both or either would do me any day of the week.
Absolutely, either one would do juuuuuust fine.
The sound of these comes down to personal preference the 60s sounds much more twanger and brighter and higher output where the cs has lower output with more mid and bass cs sounds better to me and I really like that colour as well.
Do you notice a difference in the fretboard radius between the two (more specifically for lead playing). Which radius do you prefer?
Absolutely for lead playing it will be noticable depending on just how low you want your action. On the vintage radius I prefer it greatly because I'll trade off the bends higher up the fretboard for a nice low action from the 12th fret and below, but if I was buying a telecaster to play lead and have a more comfortable action I'd be buying one with the modern radius.
Awesome video 🫡👍
Thanks!
I move the nut closer to the low E. It gives plenty of room on the high E. Give it a try. The custom shop sounds much thicker.
I have a custom shop telecaster too and was having the same thing happen with the E string slipping off…
What a fantastic video have a good weekend also today is my birthday
Happy Birthday AMIN!
Interesting comparison. My tele pro 2 deluxe has that same high E slipping issue as your CS. Rolled edges are great, but they're pretty extreme on mine.
It's just something I've never dealt with, I've played Fenders for the majority of my life and it was never an issue until they started rolling the hell out of the fingerboards. Plays so well when the string isn't slipping off at least haha
@Audiomo Music Yep, aside from the slipping, mine plays and sounds great. Such a versatile guitar.
@@AudiomoMusic I've had a similar issue on a custom shop. It was my first custom shop and was put off by it. I got another custom shop and it was not as bad but still there
The V ll for me. Especially for half the price.
The Vll has so much character. The CS, just a good guitar
I’ve owned American vintage and now own 2 custom shops, a relic and NOS 60s style with a 7.25 radius. I’ve also owned and played various custom shop 60s style. There is just something special about the custom shops. The American vintages are great, but the custom shops just have something different. When I bought mine they were used and honestly more affordable… close to the price of a new American Vintage.
Sound wise I think they are the same.
The custom shops may also get closer to original 60s. For example my NOS has a light headstock, as if you bought it in 1962…. While American vintage has a tinted neck and headstock.
I also believe that the custom shop are purely nitro while American vintage has a coating poly somewhere.
Custom shops are also built by a team, so a only handful of guys are building it. While American vintage is factory built.
When I was actively looking for a NOS with the vintage specs, I could not find a single one available in the USA in a non sparkle or over the top paint job. The only place I can see them on a somewhat regular basis is on the Japanese used market strangely enough. It's a shame, because the feel really is substantially better on the CS than the AVii. I don't think the AVii is a bad guitar at all, but it's not even close in that department. Sounds can always been tweaked and modified, but that feel is much harder to replicate.
Congrats to you for finding those guitars!
Both sound good
To my ear it seems the pink one is fuller sounding and more defined and rounder in its sound. And honestly I forgot which one is which from the beginning of the video. But for my ears the pink one sounded superior.
nice vid , the sound comparison is subjective to what pickups are fitted as you mentioned , my CS 52 tele has a Texas Special and broadcaster custom shop wound , my Mexican Vintera road worn has a custom set of hand wound House of tone's Texas T , and my vintage ii has pure 63's ... .
what I can say is that my road worn Vintera feels and plays as equal to the other two, tho all slight different, but is closely comparable to the CS , same neck profile, tho different radius , as it was a cheaper guitar I have messed around with it, did a lot of fret work and some work to the neck, new pickups, some adjustment to the relicing ... yes the custom shop does have a more expensive feel, maybe this is in my mind , but the Mexican is now comparable ....
I had a roadworn 50's tele in a few months ago and the neck itself did feel outstanding in terms of shape and the way they aged the back of the neck - albeit it had possibly the worst fret work in terms of level, smoothness, and nut cut I've had on ANY guitar ( even the 140 dollar harley bentons were substantially better )... taking it in to get the fretwork done would have made that thing one hell of a player and i knew it straight away. It's just a shame that you spend a grand plus on guitars that in some instances come unplayable but pass QC. That's kinda the risk you take with the MIM line in general and lesser so with the USA production line but there are absolutely some gems in there right out of the box. At the end of the day though, even with fretwork paid for it's still a fraction of what an actual FCS costs and you're right there. In neck feel I'd agree.
@@AudiomoMusic totally agree .. the fret work on the mine really let it down , I was going to swap out the neck and turn it into a good parts caster , but decided to pull the neck off and open spend some time on the frets , and a bit of work on the bk of the neck ... I felt the pickups lacked something , maybe this was because I was playing bk to bk with my CS I swapped them out for some hand wound made to order Texas T from House of tone .. they are more to my liking ... the guitar now feels great and im more than happy ..
I really want the vintage II in fiesta red so I can play stuff from specifically Knopfler and then Clapton, hendrix, etc because i don’t have a Strat
So, two guitars with different pickups sound different. Well, at least we got that out of the way.
Yes, the Vintage ii sounded more authentic to me, too. You can always push a lower gain pickup to a more crunchy sound if you wish but can rarely if ever get a high-gain pickup aa in the Custom Shop one to sound glassier and cleaner without adding unwanted anomalies.
My vote - save your money, the Vintage ii.is the one.
To me it's not just about sound though and I really only post the sound clips because it's what people want on youtube for obvious reasons... it's all about feel. This custom shop felt much, much, much better than this AV ii and it was pretty significant difference in person. That being said I agree with your analysis of the pickups. Different kinda flavors but the custom shop is definitely the more "modern" sounding guitar
@@AudiomoMusic If by "modern" you mean higher gain, then you are right. You are also right about feel. That's the whole ball of wax to me. A guitar that sounds very good but which does not feel right and does not inspire me to play it is not one that I will own.
I have no problem with newer Fenders that have higher radius fingerboards. As you know, an original 7.25" radius fingerboard on a guitar that is set up with low action is comfortable for playing full bar chords, but it often frets-out when bending strings at the higher frets.
The original Fenders weren't designed with such bending in mind as that was not in vogue in the early '50s, however, as playing styles having progressed, the higher radius fingerboards work better.
I have an Eric Johnson Strat with a 9.5" radius fingerboard that plays like a dream even with the action set pretty low. That said, I also have an all original '62 Strat with the usual 7.25" radius fingerboard that also plays like a dream. I have to the higher strings with slightly higher action to avoid fret-outs when bending, but that is a reasonable compromise for the overall excellence of the instrument. Of course, I would never modify it, but If its fingerboard had originally been a 9.5" radius or more, it would be even better than it is.
Oh well...
My immediate first impression is that the custom shop sounded richer and a little deeper/fuller.
The custom shop sounds warmer than the vintage ii. I like the sound of the custom shop better but they both sound good.
I agree they both sound really good in their own right, it's just a matter of preferences for the other things
The pickups on the Custom Shop are better, but not by much.The Custom Shop picks sound slightly fuller.
Newbie question here- are these instruments made by different build teams or do they come off the same assembly line?
The Custom Shop guitars are hand made by either a Master Builder, Apprentice, or as a team build with several people doing individual parts of the process. The American Vintage are straight up assembly line production guitars
Sound wise I actually like the American vintage ii better. Little bit fuller sounding, not quite as light. But the feel is something nobody listening is going to notice. Built a warmoth lightweight one piece mahogany thinline with book matched walnut top, 59 paf humbuckers and a quarter sawn maple rosewood neck, compound radius, narrow tall stainless frets, rolled edges and Plek'd it. I'd put it in the custom shop category. Just can't really convey how a guitar like that feels in the hands. Mean it is vibrating shaking resonating as well as sounding good. Plus, the rolled edges, plek job, tall narrow stainless frets and compound radius. Super slick and fast. The connection to the instrument is just unique on a few levels. Just that much easier to get lost in the music and get in the zone. Sound wise there isn't really a difference between quarter sawn and flat sawn. Quarter sawn just vibrates more. Custom shop supposedly uses the best lumber, certainly the lighter stuff. Though that doesn't always equate to better. But I am sure they knock test everything and pick out anything that resonates well.
Would I rather have a custom shop or a nice vintage reissue? I'd take either but if I had to choose, probably the custom shop. Just because they feel better in the hands.
All the what I find ridiculous relicing aside, you're absolutely right - the necks on the custom shop absolutely feel better in the hands as they should considering they cost double. Love that you went with the warmoth option, really lets you do whatever it is you want and you definitely have some cool specs on that neck
@@AudiomoMusic only thing about warmoth is the polyurethane finishes, necks are not rolled. Have to do it myself. Which is ok on a rosewood fingerboard. But a maple neck, we have to finish it ourselves. The neck consistency has been a little shaky. Sometimes the heel is a little narrow or a bad bow. It's a little hit and miss. But only $1800 a pop including pleking. What I do like is it like extra parts. Can mix and match parts, bodies and necks. Can get one piece bodies, and yes you can get a customized neck, not mentioned whatever electronics and hardware. But be prepared to put in the work. Soldering wires, copper shielding, buying Luther tools, rolling finger boards, even painting. At that price we can swap a neck, body, pickups. Basically keep modifying until you are happy. After a while everything is just parts even these custom shops, American vintage ii , I'll mix parts. If it is going to sound play better. Kind of like a framkencaster.
Basically two kinds of telecaster people. The ones who are stock fender people. It's all about original parts, resale value, collectiblaty. And the modders. The ones who only care about the best playing experience at all costs.
The modders are a happy bunch they get the enjoyment of playing awesome guitars, but the collectors never lose the value of the instruments?
I like more modern specs and would go cs if money wasn't an object, I really wanna play one side by side with the one I built just to see the difference but yeah in time I'll figure that out
It's a good learning experience when assembling guitars to try out higher end models back to back, it gives you an idea of what you could do to improve what you do going forward or focus on as well as give you an appreication for your own work
Yes, the CS sounds better, noticeably.
But my biggest question would be
How does the American Vintage sound compared to a $1000 Mexican tele?
I didn't think it sounded or played that much better than a Fender Japan Telecaster Custom I have in right now, kind of surprised me on that end. I'll likely never know on the MIM comparison unless someone lends me one to try it against, I very rarely buy and resell MIM fenders.
Sound is relative and the pups make a big difference. My 2014 lefty TeleMex has McNelly's and it sounds as good as its USA/Japan brethren. I took out modern bridge and added brass 3-saddle vintage. And I always remove the tone pot from the neck pup on my Teles...did my CS yesterday...I prefer the clarity and output improvement it offers.
Cs has more character but the green one sounds pretty good too for a normal joe like me
They both sound pretty good, the difference really is in the hands, and in that sense they are pretty far apart.
Well.......I liked the bridge pickup on the American Vintage 2 slightly more but the neck pickup on the custom shop slightly more. What were the pickup sets in each? :)
Ah, you just said it!!
Always waiting for you to get to that part of the video hahaha
I bought the American vintage 2 , it’s beautiful and it’s shiny and clean. Personally wouldn’t pay any custom shop to scuff up, check and tarnish my guitar . I wouldn’t do it if was free…. Does anyone remember the days when we would polish our guitars, polish frets , fix nicks and stuff ? If I wore one out …fine. But I can’t pay someone’s mortgage to beat up a new guitar.🎸 🎉
Still got the custom shop, eh? 😉 Love the Friedman tones.
It just wont sell, its actually annoying at this point 🤣
@@AudiomoMusic price it to sell...lol anything I sell sells within a few hours....
@@sooparticular It's the cheapest 1960 CS by 500 dollars on all of Reverb, I am not asking anywhere near what the "norm" is these days. If i still lived in Socal it would have sold in 2-3 days cash in person but theres no market where I'm at in Florida for it.
@@AudiomoMusic thats weird even on reverb its not selling? gear page? I usually break even or take a 500 dollar loss....it works for me because I used the guitar for months...good luck!!!
@@AudiomoMusic i go to miami alot what part of florida are u???
i like seafoam tele better I think . I think I'm going to dive and buy a Tele. Pretty much everything I have is Gibson or PRS.
I don't think I've ever met anyone that bought a telecaster and ended up regretting it so I think you'll find it's really a wonderful instrument no matter which version you end up with
It's Surf Green btw......
I'd rather have one where the high e string isn't so darn close to the edge of the fretboard.
Yep, kind of a bare minimum requirement for me too
Can I buy the custom shop guitar… please
You're gonna have to find the guy that bought it and make him a decent offer I imagine, it sold a few months ago
They sound the same to me
Liked the CS sound better: thought it had more "sparkle" high end, though some would argue it's too spikey.
Also liked the CS looks better, and prefer modern appointments. Don't care about vintage spec, but do like some tasteful relicing on occasion -- probably goes back to my penchant for photographing industrial detritus and rusty scrapyards!
But what do I know? I buy used Squier Standard Series instruments for $139 and am totally satisfied. 😄
I can see the appeal for both, if I wasn't in this business I'd have just been perfectly happy with my run of the mill Japanese Fenders I had at the time for the most part. I've done more actual gigging and recording with those than the majority of stuff I have on this channel haha
Preferred the Vintage here.
After 2010 fender cs is worthless because of the quality of the wood materials. I’d buy American vintage ones than Fender custom shop ones. From my experience Fender custom shop guitars or basses have lots of mid and low, kinda too much.😅
I kind of feel like that about production USA Fender too, only I'd say it started after they switched from the last American Vintage series to the American Originals. It's been extremely few and far in between i've played any great USA production model. The prices of new custom shops are so outrageously high and never offer the specs I'd want so I don't even consider them at this point haha
not even close...I play them both...the CS models are head and shoulders above the rest.
They have such an incredible neck feel, the production guitars are nice but out of the box the CS are superb.
@@AudiomoMusic and also That punch and presence!!!
To my deaf ears the Journeyman sounds better, Vintage ii sounds like the volume is rolled off.
chartreuse wins
Another one of those talking head videos...
Yeah if you skip the playing comparison you will hear talking pretty cool right