Dr. Bashir: "What I want to know is, out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?" Garak : "My dear Doctor, they're all true." Dr. Bashir : "Even the lies?" Garak : "ESPECIALLY the lies" 🤣 BEST DIALOGUE EVER!
It's not Star Trek to begin with! Looks like shit and no charisma in characters. Not to mention the insanely boring stories and plots(or complete lack thereof).
Underrated? How? Just about all fans rank it from 1, 2 or 3 best out of the 9 live action series (along with TNG). For many fans it is their #1. Different IMDb fan polls all have it in the top 3.
"the character of Miles O'Brien was very well-liked by the writers." makes me laugh, because of one of the show's primary themes, "O'Brien Must Suffer." :P
It's the plight of engineering chiefs in the 90's. Geordi, O'Brien, hell they even killed Scotty... I don't know what engineers did to piss off Trek writers, but jeez...
DS9 is my favorite series in all of Trek so far, Avery Brooks' portrayal of Ben Sisko is my favorite character, and I thank you for doing justice to the show.
I love that Wil Weaton didn't watch this show until like 2020 and straight up Facebook posted "The kids in this show had more character in one episode than I was allowed to have in the entire TNG." Lol Such an amazing show, best Trek ever.
When all is said and done, I think DS9 has aged better than any of the other 90's Trek, in large part to how it looked inwards at humanity, it's writing, it's tendency to take risks with the Trek formula, and it's approach to visual effects. Well done on this video. I very much look forward to your Voyager Retrospective, which I'm sure is a long way off.
"In the Pale Moonlight" is my favorite episode of any Star Trek show. And I've seen them all. The final monologue by Brooks gives me chills every time.
It is a wonderful episode, for sure. For me, it's pipped by Living Witness, just because I think it really was able to be all that Trek aspired to be. I would round off a top 3 with Chain of Command, in that I really like both the stuff on the ship and the interrogation. But In The Pale Moonlight is awesome, and I may rewatch it now...
I am almost 60 years old, Star Trek has been a part of my life for all of it. Last year was the first time I had watched DS9. I had held off thinking, I wasn't going to like it. While it is not the Star Trek you know, it is a Star Trek worth your time. I went through all the seasons in a week or so. Like all series with 26 episodes, there are some that save on the budget, it is just the reality of it all, but so many are so good, the fillers are not that bad. IF you are like me, and have put it off for so many years, I can tell you I regret not watching it when it was on the air, but so very happy I did finally see it last year. I return to ALL of Star Trek each year, watching TOS, STNG, Enterprise and Voyager... I am very happy to add DS9 to my yearly watching of this great series.
I didn't grow up with DS9 either but it became my favorite as an adult. On a rewatch, I've learned what episodes you can freely skip (alot in the early seasons)
@@Revz8bit that's cause in the early seasons everyone is getting used to writing the episodes and their character's that's why the later seasons are better cause they figure it all out then
I initially didn't like it because as a kid Babylon 5 was one of my favorite TV shows and I foolishly thought DS9 was just a rip off. In my adulthood, DS9 became my favorite Trek show.
Oh my lord I had no idea that he played brunt...Jeffrey Coombs is my favorite actor of all time, and I never knew he played Brunt until just now, brilliant.
There's an interesting dichotomy between their values. They are at once, totally uncaring for the rights of others, yet hold a deep and true love for their brothers. Damar's "Awakening of empathy" when kira talks about his dead family, is a pivotal moment for Kardashian morality. To me, it was like he finally broke past that taught bigotry, and (hopefully) his love and care of cardassians expanded to all sentient life
As a culture they were more fleshed out than any other although some might think it's the Klingons. I haven't heard any scuttlebutt on The Obsidian Order Lately which Makes me nervous.
I was ten years old when this premiered. Four months short of eleven. I taped every episode with VHS, just like TNG. I’d rewatch the special effects frame by frame.
I'll never get over the sheer amount of love Ben and Jake have for each other. There were each others rock, they were also like best friends. This episode is perfect, every scene, every line performed beautifully.
He went from "I must protest! I am NOT a merry man!" to... "Is there no Jem'Hadar willing to face me?" - Worf "Seven battles, and seven victories! What hero of legend could have done as well?" - Martok "I yield. I cannot defeat this Klingon. All I can do is kill him, and that no longer holds my interest." - Ikat'ika
Sadly the Worf floor rug was the writer's way of trying to show how strong the weekly creature feature was. It just made him look sad around his occasional moments to shine.
The visitor... It's always managed to reduce me to an emotional mess, but now I have my own children it hits even harder. What an episode though! Also, RIP Aron Eisenberg. Gone far too soon.
When I see the visitor is the next episode in my rewatches I always have to mentally prepare myself for balling my eyes out for the next 40 min. It is downright my favorite tv episode of all time.
Martok didn’t give a shit about being a better warrior than kor. He was pissed that the master had blocked him from becoming an officer for so long and martok’s father died before he could see his son become a great warrior
It's a rough episode if you've lost a parent/parental figure, one of the best of DS9 but also one I can't, or struggle to watch when revisiting the show. The writers of that episode are amazing for that. It's like Luck of the Fryish or Jurassic Bark from Futurama, excellent episodes but just too emotionally damaging to rewatch.
Every time I rewatch this and get to the ending, “Deep Space Nine is, without question, Star Trek at its absolute best!” I find myself sitting up straight and saluting. This show got me through a rough phase of young adulthood, and the quality of the writing, characters, and overarching story is definitely part of why. Thank you, DS9, and thank you Rowan for this excellent retrospective on it! 🫡
In the show Hell On Wheels, his character is 180° the complete opposite. He's the Sean Bean of TV actors; equally convincing as the hero or villain. Bonus: Anson Mount, also from Hell On Wheels is now Capt Pike in Strange New Worlds.
Not only is DS9 the greatest Star Trek, it is one of the greatest shows to ever appear on TV. It was massively ahead of it's time with the ongoing arcs and serialized episodes, things that are rather common these days. Enjoyed every minute (even Move Along Home).
It also was wayyyyyyy ahead of it's times in terms of social themes, and addressed those themes with far more grace and complexity than I would have guessed. Everything from big issues like terrorism, war, poverty, and racism to individual issues like forbidden love and single parenting is given serious weight in the show. And what surprised me the most is that the show is NEVER preachy when addressing these difficult issues, it just presents you with an interesting moral conflict and sometimes has you really questioning whether the characters did the right thing. Really makes you think why they can't recapture the same formula in the more recent Treks.
It’s aged like fine wine - I’m just shy of 40 and my opinion of it just keeps going up and up. "Allamaraine, count to four, Allamaraine, then three more, Allamaraine, if you can see, Allamaraine, you'll come with me..."
Louise Fletcher, bless her, was absolutely brilliant. You know you've created a special villain when people think you were in more episodes than you actually were. It's amazing how two shows set on space stations have two of the most memorable villains in all of sci-fi, and neither character was actually in their respective shows as much as we think.
Seriously! I get a channel that reruns every Star Trek series on a loop (one episode of each series per night) and I’ve kinda paused rewatching them lately, but Emmisary pops up on the TV guide and I HAVE to watch Sisko’s experience with the Prophets. ART.
Garak: I find all this acting most distasteful! Dukat: I suppose you’d prefer the simplicity of a RECORDING BOOTH! Garak: You have to admit, it’s much more civilized!
My favorite ever Garak line is something he never actually said because it was only a simulation of him! "You mean no one told you the plan? You see, I pretend to be their friend... and then I shoot you."
When I first watched DS9 I was in it mainly for the Ferengi episodes. They’re still my favorite. When Sisko tests Nog to get into Starfleet and Nog gives his speech - that really hit me. But I’ve grown to appreciate all the many other subplots in this series.
What fascinates me most about Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast is the dysfunctional and manipulative relationship between Tain and Garak. It's so heartbreaking that Garak's own father never acknowledged Garak as his son, tried to have him killed and when that failed, shamelessly manipulated him for his own purposes. Garak, who should have been able to see through the manipulation, longed so much to return home and have some sort of relationship with his father that he set aside his instincts and played right into Tain's hand. At least, that's how I see it. Growing up like that, it's little wonder he became what he was. It was his way of surviving his own personal dysfunctional, chaotic world. Odo is the outside observer who speaks the truth to Garak, but Garak can't or won't let go of his "magical thinking" regarding his father, and arguably never does, even up until Tain dies in a Dominion POW camp in a later episode, the title of which escapes me just now. It's a heartbreaking example of what so many abused and neglected children go through all their lives. That doesn't excuse Garak's behaviour or absolve him of responsibility for his own actions, but it does make him more understandable.
The final scene in "far beyond the stars" always hit me in my gut and soul. Never seen an actor (TV, not stage) delve so deep and lose themselves in the moment. Chills...pure chills
It always amazes me how appropriate the lessons of Paradise Lost and Only a Paper Moon would play out in real life with 9/11 and the reaction to the attack and the wars that followed. The writers of DS9 were really ahead of its time.
And also the discussion of religion and its place in education. I didn't discover DS9 until the 2010s, but it blew me away that they covered such a controversial topic as its first season finale in the early 90s, a topic that is even more controversial and divisive today
Okay but thats as if the themes of veterans, amputees and trauma is only relevant or made significant by 9/11. I think for American audiences it became super relevant again, but thats cuz it was neglected so long in the public eye.
Section 31 is that dirty little open secret that ANY long lasting society would have, if indeed it WANTED to be long lasting. They are that agency that HAS to CONSTANTLY answer the “what’s the worst case scenario?” question with a plan that ensures survival. The irony in DS9 is that THEY were the ones who created the cure that ultimately ended the Dominion War, even if that wasn’t their intention. Their existence proves that no matter how shiny and Utopian the Federation may APPEAR to be on the surface , there was a LOT of dirty work done in the background to GET it there and KEEP it there. They are the ones who realize that no matter how “enlightened “ YOU may be, it doesn’t mean that everyone around you feels the same, even those who are supposed to be your Allies. The slippery slope that Section 31 occupies, and their unchecked autonomy is a constant reminder of the road to Hell being paved with good intentions.
The notion that democracies must necessarily be undergirded by super secret organizations empowered with a license to kill and answerable only to themselves definitely has the ring of truth, like all the best lies.
I really go back and forth about how I feel about Section 31. I think DS9 handles it very well, because it just leaves the question open about whether Section 31 is real and sanctioned by the Federation leadership or just an extremist group claiming to do dirty work for high ideals. You aren't given a solid answer, and it's left open to the viewer to ask that of themselves. Later iterations, through the Kelvin films and the current Star Trek shows, really seem to embrace its existence, and I'm not a very big fan of that. I think it says a lot about the change in popular ideals post-9/11 where everyone was cynical and not willing to believe in a better society being possible without skeletons in the closet, and that's reflected in the way ongoing writers are still so attached to the idea.
I made it 99% of the way through this retrospective with nary a tear... then you showed Jake looking out the promenade window wondering about his father with the Prophets to a shot of Ben with Jake as a child looking through the window at their new home, DS9, and I just lost it. It truly was the best Trek had to offer. Thank you for this. I needed it.
Sisko joining the prophets was a weak point in my opinion. It came off as cheezy to me. Jake was a great character, but Nog came off as better. It is a shame that Star Trek did not continue the Timeline. Seeing a Commander or Captain Nog would have been great.
@@EnsignRedSquad I tried watching Picard. I gave it three episodes and just could not continue. CBS destroyed Picard's image and the show has a nonsensical storyline.
I remember watching it in my brother's room on his TV, sitting on the edge of his bed. Then the signal was going out, so we went out into the living room to watch it.
This is brilliant, thank you! One thing I will disagree with slightly is the moment when Julian comes into his own. I think that change happens in "the quickening". It's when Julian faces massive, gut wrenching failure on a level he's never imagined, reckons with his own limitations, and shatters his remaining naivete. It's probably my favorite Julian centric episode (alongside "inter arma silent leges")
That scene with Julian raging against a Vice Admiral really got my attention...This was the first time I had seen how good an actor Alexander Siddig really is...Hollywood took notice of him after that...
1.) Bashir 2.) The Doctor (voyager) 3.) Bones Mccoy 4.) Dr. Crusher 5. ) Flox How i rank the doctors. If I where dying I'd know Bashir would go to Delta quad for me to get the cure.😆 But I'd have the Doctor stabilize me till he got back.
This is the retrospective I'm most looking forward too... debuting right about the time I get up and have to go to work. Can't wait to watch when I get home. Thanks so much for this series you have done!
Though I know it happened, it's hard to imagine any serious Star Trek fan opposing the idea of a black captain, even back in the early '90s. Avery Brooks is a remarkably talented actor and Benjamin Sisko is one of the greatest characters in the entire franchise.
Did it happen? I remember reading about the backlash against TNG in 1987 and there was a lot of similar grief from the fandom over the general premise of DS9 when that show premiered, but backlash against a black captain? Or a woman captain? I don’t recall seeing any of that back then. The narrator here says it happened, and I suppose that could be true in an extremely marginal sense, but he offers no evidence or examples. The article he speaks of relating to the fandom by Captain Pike-a-Chu makes no mention of this either, instead only focusing on more recent fan backlash against Michael Burnham and having LGBT regular characters in Trek. If it did happen, I genuinely would like to know. At the time, I saw no evidence of it.
@@robertgrey7266yes it happened. People wrote into fan zeens and posted on usenets and forums. However while the Sisko stuff was a vocal minority. The anti Tuvok backlash was insane. With people breaking down lore reasons why vulcans couldn't be black.
Sisko explaining the concept of chronological existence and in return having the "prophets" ask "then why do you live here" refering to the moment of his wifes death was such and immensely powerful statement that stayed with me years later and had a huge impact when dealing with my own grief about my fathers passing. Whoever wrote that piece of dialogue, i owe you...
DS9 is like the star trek you watch and love when you are advancing through really becoming a trekker. it's like a dungeon run you should only start when you are at least level 20, but when you do, it's absolutely awesome
That's a great assessment!!!! I just couldn't watch this when it was on in the 90's. I was too into TNG. Occasionally is watch DS9 with my dad and I thought it was ok, but I never watched it on my own. And I LOVED Voyager. It wasn't until 2007 that I decided to rewatch EVERYTHING and discovered just how great DS9 really was. Being older helped.
Such an amazing portrayal of a black man raising his son. So unfortunate it is very much looked over in that regard. Never got the credit it deserves for that.
One of the biggest missed opportunities of Deep Space Nine -- when we first learn about the Bajora in TNG, we're told they've been chased off their homeworld, and that there are large Bajoran populations on many worlds throughout the quadrant, often isolated and viewed as second class citizens. It's too bad we never had an episode where a Starfleet Bajoran officer came into conflict with Kira, who might've -- particularly in seasons one or two -- lashed out with a comment about the Bajorans who fled and never came back to help had no place on Bajor now that the Cardassians had left. Or maybe an episode on exiled Bajorans trying to return and getting into conflict with those who'd remained and suffered.
A different take on the French situation of World War II where you had those that stayed behind in occupied France and then the Free French who fled to Great Britain.
In the post show novels Ensign Ro joins the station (shes been promoted i think) and she and kira don't see eye to eye on the subject of the Bajoran Religeon. Ro gave up on her faith when she left the refugee camps to join starfleet where as kira had nothing but her faith when she was with the resistance cell. Good reading 👍
Watched the entire show in January. It is epic and nuanced moreover it has ‘soul’. A masterpiece. This review is every bit as emotional as watching some of the key episodes. Thank you Rowan.
Of the Trek series... DS9 had: the best main ensemble, the best Captain, the best writing and direction, the best supporting cast, the strongest season-series arcs, and the best takes not only on the original species like Klingons and Romulans, but multiple other alien cultures as well. Trek at its absolute peak, imo.
Totally agree. DS9 is far and away my favorite Trek, but Avery Brooks annoyed the crap out of me throughout the whole series with his ridiculous "huff and puff" mechanic whenever he got angry. It was so unconvincing and contrived, which is such a shame as he has such a commanding voice and presence otherwise. Also his stupid squeal of forced excitement in the first episode nearly had me switch off immediately, and I possibly would have had the plot not been so compelling. It's baffling to me that his acting was so crap in this role as I have seen him in other roles and he was great. Each time I rewatch the series (lost count how many times now) his performance gets a little more annoying. So sad considering how much I adore everything else about the series. Looking back, it seems ridiculous now how controversial Dax's lesbian kiss was doesn't it? Star Trek really has been a major cultural trail blazer.
@@alaricgoldkuhl155 I agree w/ Brooks' acting! It always struck me more like theatre acting, which is generally fine but on screen--and especially next to so many actors NOT doing that--it was just so, so strange. However, there are plenty amazing parts of the show to more than make up for that in my opinion
The Xindi War in Enterprise tried to capture the same feel, but it never really hit the same for me. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it though, and Enterprise is actually my favorite Star Trek series.
@@FreakDaMIghet I honestly wouldn't mind more war centric story arcs in Star Trek. I just think there should be a proper build up to them. At the same time, I wouldn't war stories to become too dominant in story telling. Otherwise it looses its edge and makes war seem trivial.
@@RabbitShirak Good point. Takes a lot of skill to write the dominion war in such a way that you can have other adventures unrelated to it. But at the same time you have the serious nature of the war in the back ground. Seeing the characters look at casualty reports really drives home how life and death this struggle is
Due to it not coming to Australian television until much later, I had the fortune (?) of only being able to watch Deep Space Nine on casette tape, which meant I was able to watch the series in order without missing any episodes. Truly far and away ahead of its time and absolutely my favourite Star Trek series.
DS9 is definitely my favorite Trek show (and one of my favorite shows in general), in no small part due to how it treats religion. Also it has the best characters imo
Star Trek: DS9, Retrospective. Star Trek the best in sci-fi, DS9 the best iterations of Trek! The ratings of DS9 on IMDB with a 173 episodes, had 105 episodes with rating of 7.5 and over. That’s 60%, TNG only had 47% that’s 84 episodes with ratings of over 7.5. Well done, kudos Mr. Rowan J. Coleman. Thank you!!!
IMDB ratings? The same site that has ratings of Discovery season 1 so high? Those older ratings might be more reliable than any recent show's ratings though. People used to be a lot less pathetic than they are now. Personally I like DS9 better than TNG. I also like TOS slightly better than DS9. But then again, I like B5 better than all of trek except for the TMP movies.
@@Drebin2293 Season 1 of Discovery was good. I expected to dislike Discovery based on other's hate, then finally watched it during COVID. I was so wrong. The latter half of season 3 is an issue for me but not the first 2 seasons.
@@WillSams Eh, to each their own I guess. I wanted to murder Burnham after her little mutiny and the subsequent fallout. Having served in the marines myself, I can say that I would've probably shot her on the spot. If she'd been a throwaway character, and received a just punishment, then that would be different. But nope. She's got plot armor. She's a special snowflake. Blek.
Duet is one of the best episodes of any Star Trek that ever aired. I had many of the same feelings about the first season. The more episodic stories felt a bit contrived, but this episode stood out immensely. A good story is a good story.
One of my favorite moments of Duet is right at the end, after Martiza is stabbed. Kira asks “Why!? He wasn’t Darhe’el!” and the other Bajoran says “He’s a Cardassian! Isn’t that enough!?” Kira says “No!” and in the space of a few moments you can see in her expression that it’s really hitting her what she’s about to say and that she’s about to mean it. “It’s not!” She already had the revelation about Martiza in his cell, but that moment is a revelation for her of just how much this shook her worldview.
@@FanStoryVideoStudios I remember that moment exactly. She was taking him from the cell through the promenade to a ship. He tells Kira that he had hoped his trial would force the change necessary to save his people, but that he had failed. But he didn't fail. In helping Kira to grow, she was able to forge relationships with Cardassian resistance members later in the show, thereby stalling the Founders long enough for Odo to forge his own relationship with his people. Kira was pivotal, both in bringing the Cardassians and Bajorans together against the Founders, but also by loving and supporting Odo, who shared his love and appreciation of "solids" with his people. Without Kira, the war would have waged on, and the Alpha Sector would have most likely been lost. Unbeknownst the the file clerk in disguise, he had helped to save Carassia long after his own death. DS9's storytelling is underrated in my opinion. There are so many fantastic stories that tie together in very subtle ways.
The way you describe this series is akin to reading a masterfully written novel; the way you speak about these characters and their threads is inspiring.
I love Deep Space 9 far above the others. One of the elements that was so compelling was the relationship between colony and colonizer, Bajor and Cardassia. You see the will of the oppressed to overcome their subjugators even after an official armistice, and the justifications of empire. This was so remarkably portrayed by the characters of Kira Nerys, Ducat, and Garak. There were a few points in some of the episodes when I thought that at least one of the writers and I shared the same ethnicity to know so well the history of a conquered people whose lands were occupied. It turned out they were just excellent writers. A part of me wants the characters to come back in some way in more episodes or a movie, but, considering the rubbish that were the Next Generation movies, I will be content to remember Deep Space 9 as a remarkable series that had its wonderful moment in Star Trek and TV history.
DS9 is my secret favorite. That whole Vic Fontaine arc was incredibly well done, these dark undertones of the show combined with sad Jazz vocals just works so well. Really made me feel for Nog. They really outdid themselves. It's obviously not TNG and TOS, but it's in my top 3.
What i liked about DS9 is that despite humans being so advanced, cultured, and moral, the series showed that they still had flaws to overcome and by the end, they did overcome.
DS9 is up there with TOS and have both on DVD. Sometimes the episodes get so Shakespearian. Garak & Dukat are my favourite characters, they just eat up the screen when on.
I know what's been said, but I REALLY, REALLY want a Blu-ray release of DS9. I thought I heard some scuttlebutt about them working on cleaning the show up, but maybe I misinterpreted the significance. I hope not!
@@LadyAstarionAncunin Kira was self righteous and arrogant which would be ok if this changed throughout the show as part of her character arc. It barely did with her just becoming a little less of a dick, and what's worse she was never punished or faced any consequences as a result of this. Instead other (good guy) characters couldn't help but love her despite her constantly having a go and crossing other characters along with her relative lack of positive characteristics. This entire personality was completely at odds with her appointed position on DS9 where she became largely responsible for the relations between Bajor and the Federation. Her lack of diplomatic tact with her abrasive personality is completely at odds with this task raising the question why was she assigned there. This is particularly prominent when looking at her qualifications and experiences of which she has non in relation to the administration of a space station (especially the most important on in the quadrant) since she spent her time in the resistance hiding in mountains and performing the occasional ambush etc. Kira's views and actions are constantly vindicated in the face of basic logic, a trait she shares with the entire Bajoran species. This is bad writing and detracts from her character and the show as a whole. Then there's her and Odo's love arc which was retconned out of nowhere and was created to appease the same type of fan to made fanart between Kirk and Spock. That is not a good thing. What I can agree with you on however is that she was well acted. While, I presume, you believe this was in part due to her character, I would say she was well acted in spite of it. I would write more but this is far too long for a youtube comment as it is and quite frankly I cant be bothered.
Rowan, I have always enjoyed and appreciated your Star Trek oriented content, however, THESE retrospective essays in general and this one in particular are BY FAR my favorites, and in my opinion, not only your best work, but some of the BEST fan based Star Trek content on the internet. Thank you 1000 times!!!
The nature of the show wasn’t exploring new planets, but the show it self “bold went where no man had gone before” with characters, story, and writing. That’s about the most Star Trek thing it could possibly do
I have watched DS9 from the start, thru its end as it aired. I have rewatched the series countless times. DS9 is by far my favorite television series of the 20th century. I absolutely cannot express how much I enjoyed this retrospective. Every key episode was hit upon, all of the scenes that endure with me to this day were expressed. The one thing I wanted to add is how Sisko's story relates to that of Moses. DS9 is an Exodus story. We see a religious figure who leads a group to a new promised land, yet he himself never gets see the fruit of his labors.
As someone born in the early 2000s I’m glad that my dad raised me on these “old” sci-fi series and especially deep space nine. It’ll always have a special place in my heart.
Take worf out of the show does the show really change ? Nope Worf the awful father worf dealing with Klingon nonsense etc etc same shit from tng General martok was the klingon I always hoped in worf would be
@@seanodeli7031 yes worf has a direct affect on dax. her arc changes greatly without worf and it means that Bashir would probably develop a relationship with dax which takes away from the miles and Bashir aspect. also worf allows for another high ranking second in command from the federation. which allows kira to do a lot more off the station without losing a command structure
I dare anyone to watch "The Visitor" and not tear up at the end. "In the Pale Moonlight" in my opinion is the absolute best episode of any Star Trek series hands down, although some others come very close. One point you missed covering was the relationship between Garak and Enabrin Tain and how that explains Garak's motivations and sudden reversal in "Improbable Cause".
Don't forget licivious. Ferengi would have a field day running crypto schemes, managing OnlyFans, selling weapons to Russia and Ukraine, and running MLMs.
@@richardarriaga6271 So basically USA & minions ? Because "us humans" per P.D. Wesp's definition in this context doesn't apply to approx. 90% of Humanity. and "still lovable" ... yeah, from whose perspective ?
When I tell you I've been waiting for this episode since the start of this series... DS9 is absolutely my favorite, and IMO the BEST series of Star Trek. Great characters, great writing, and great production!
I have not watched the visitor in many years it's to much for me. My own father died the year before the episode first aired. And it seemed so real, so unbearable. It really shows what a splendid actor Tony Todd is, perhaps I will revisit it soon.
@@ginomo80 Oh man… Same again here. My dad passed just a few years before and that episode crushed me. I’ve rewatched the rest of the series any number of times… except for The Visitor. I think I have watched that episode exactly twice, including the original air date.
Amen! Hallelujah! DS9 is the writing, acting, and patient character development that has become woefully absent in most modern television! Thank you for sharing such an insightfully excellent commentary, Drinker!!
The criticism that it was stuck on a station is so funny. They went to planets all the time! And a TNG bottle episode were the entire drama unfolds on the ship or holodeck was very frequent!
It’s funny; Not only do I have hard time not crying whenever I watch ’What you leave behind’, I’m also finding it hard not to shed a tear when Rowan discusses the series finale and shows clips of characters saying goodbye to each other. Easily my favourite series of the franchise, aged like a fine wine.
I recently got into star trek. Honestly, I find myself binging through the shows partly because I enjoy them, and partly because I wanna be all caught up when the next retrospective video comes out lol
DS9 is probably the most thematically similar of the Star Trek shows to the profile picture you got there, so I hope you enjoyed it/enjoy it when you get to it.
I grew up watching Star Trek, but specifically avoided DS9 due to it being darker, grittier and not really in Gene's vision. Nearly 30 years later, I finally decided to watch it on Netflix and it's now my favorite series in the ST universe, as well as one of my favorite series in general.
My controversial take: TOS & early TNG represented Roddenberry's unquestioned idealism of the future, but it was also a meta allegory for Roddenberry's unquestioned arrogant high opinion of himself. However DS9 and select eps of later TNG would deconstruct both the Federation depicted in earlier shows and Gene Roddenberry himself as both were very flawed beings and concepts hiding under the veneer of their own mythology & reputation.
Flawed Federation, but never refuting the ideals and aspirations that undergirded it. Which is one of the many reasons these shows still "get it", even when they go dark, and KurtzTrek does not.
Still I like the idea of an Utopia trying to overcome societies flaws. I think it hasn't been explored enough and would like to see a comeback instead the violence obsessed ventures of recent years
But at the same time lose some of its optimism for the future. The Federation is taken down a peg (many pegs, actually) and many people lamented that optimism which was Star Trek and TNG. Don't take me wrong, DS9 did a tremendous job with its darker tone and is truly excellent.
@@brauliob It didn't lose it. Just showed that in an imperfect world and imperfect galaxy, it would not be trouble free. That is a more nuanced, adult view. As opposed to NuTrek, being written by cynical, nihilistic children, who think the world is horrible, not because they have seen for a fact that it is, because they have been told it is, and that cynicism is moral, right and should color everything they do. They have rejected a classical education, they don't have the life experiences to inform them, and have a pensive pose, with chromatic hair and piercings. So, they don't just ask questions about an optimistic future, they reject it out of hand and declare it a lie. Which is why KurtzTrek is so bad and those who invoke DS9 in its defense simply have no idea what they are talking about.
This is one of thise instances where all the pieces somehow some way fell into place with near perfection. The writers, actors, directors and all the rest of the staff have an obvious passion for their craft and the subject at hand. DS9 is a brilliant edition to start trek.
I listened to this whole documentary without stopping. DS9 is the best written show I have ever watched. The show has the best characters and supporting characters. Hell, even the supporting characters could carry entire episodes. Thank you for making this video!
This series is fantastic. Some of the best on TH-cam. I can’t imagine how much time you spent compiling the information and footage. Well done my friend. Thank you.
I grew up watching TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. DS9 was the most story drive, diverse and well written. While I look back on all of them and love each show in there own way I could never warm up to Discovery or even Picard. The media sets Discovery up as though it is THE most well written and diverse of ANY Star Trek out there and it's not and the Documentary for DS9 in my opinion is good evidence. While Discovery does have a few things in the way of diversity they weren't the first nor the best at it and the writing in the show proves it. I'm gonna get a lot of flak for that but that's the good thing about opinions, we can agree to disagree and try to shift opinions but each experience is unique and shouldn't be discounted out of hand.
Completely agree. So many media articles stating Discovery is first to have strong women, or diverse cast, as if the previous Trek shows don't exist. I can only imagine they hope the youth of today don't know about Trek's past or can't be bothered to go watch for themselves.
I fully agree with your points about Discovery. Another I would add is its ego-driven focus on Burnham. While prior series do weigh narratively on the captain, they give other characters active roles driving the plot as well. DS9 was the best at giving its main crew and extended cast time to shine. OTOH Discovery continues to singularly focus on Burnham far too often, and she wasn't even the captain. At least it could be argued that Picard earned that right.
Ugh, I hate how people are so quick to praise something that they take a dump on something else that did it first and act like the original never existed. Oh Carol Danvers is so great because she's a woman taking over the role of Captain Marvel. Really? What about Monica Rambeau? She had was Captain Marvel in the 80s and was a black woman AND was leader of the Avengers. Oh, Discovery has a black lead and a woman. We have a gay couple. Yeah, DS9 had a black man and Voyager had a woman. DS9 had a pansexual woman and a Cardassian that was into everything. The only reason DS9 didn't have a gay couple is because there weren't enough people watching back then and it would get them cancelled. (Where were you? Why weren't you watching?) Hey Discovery, how about something new? Trek has never had an Asian lead or a black lead that wasn't played by an American. How about an Indian character? They make up a seventh of our population and the only Indian named character was played by a guy from Mexico and a very white Brit.
As far as STD goes, and new trek in general, sure, there are fans who are bigots, but I think many people are missing the mark, by calling fans who dislike the new shows racist, mysogynists etc. I, for one, have no problem with diversity. But when 'diversity' is the whole selling point of a show, being shouted from the rooftops day and night, without there being a good story or show behind it, I believe THAT is perceived as "forced diversity": The problem is not diversity in itself, but rather, that there is nothing else but diversity, and add to that the weaponisation of diversity, as in 'if ou dont like the show, you are a racist!" Make a compelling show first, and make it diverse. Also, I greatly apreciate ST for the optimism and for the cast usually being professionals and rational beings first, rather than petty idiots and drama queens like in so much other media. by all means, keep them flawed, hell, keep the federation flawed. But remember that 'flawed' should be 'good but not perfect'. NOT 'totally bad and evil'. And that is, I think, where New Trek also fails hard; it makes for just another rump of pessimistic totalitarians just like 99-point-odd-% of other Sci-Fi. It basically lost what made Trek ...well...Trek. Somewhat understandable from a production view, since limiting character conflic and stupidity makes writing more difficult. Lastly, not only Trek but other franchises, too, suffer from the recent new imaginations deliberately going out of their way to deconstruct and obliterate what came before them. The new films and shows are not introducing new characters and stories of their own, with an occasional nod to what came before them, but seemingly all aim to take every aspect of the old material and destrox them, kill the old characters, make them into broken and evil ones, destroy or villify organisations and whatnot. All those aspects together make for a rather bad reception of the new stuff and alienates many fans, who then get tarred as racists to de-legitimise any critique. It is never the new films/series, that maybe just aren't that good, it is always and exclusively the fault of the racist fan manbabies.
@@lutzderlurch7877 Just gotta point out... TNG, especially the first season, is very poorly written Thus the 'make a compelling show first, then add diversity' nonsense you are spouting holds no weight. TNG is diversity first and compelling show a very far second
I’ve only recently come to love the intricate, nuanced, often timely layers of DS9. Back then, I could appreciate there being a Black Captain, a Black lead. Now, as an adult, a well traveled, open minded, Black women who as matured to love the cannon stories as well as see how everyday life influenced the tenor of many episodes/storylines, i have such a love an appreciation for DS9, the cast, the crew, the labor of love that went on to give us, the viewers this gift Thank you so much for covering this. Your depth of knowledge, attention to detail, and the love you have for Trek is so appreciated and respected. Thank you ❤
One thing I love about Worf in these final episodes is how after striking down Gowron he still saw the man as a friend and warrior. He is the only one to Cry out to warn the Honored dead that another warrior will soon be crossing the river of blood. It wasn’t just empty ceremony. Gowron has been fair to Worf according to every law and Klingon tradition. Except for that one trial in Rules of Engagement. Though I do think It was changing Martok that planned that out.
I am looking forward to this one, in particular. All of the Retrospectives have been great, but this one is on the best series in the franchise. I cannot wait to see the premiere!
Finally have time to sit down and watch. I've said it before and I'll say it again - these are phenomenal and the detail of your craft is inspirational.
The second DS9 turned from episodic to linear based, was the best thing to happen in star trek. It created a sense of urgency. Everything that happened from the jem Hadar addition ignited genius level writing to the end. The space wars, vs singular encounters, and knowing the characters to their core while still evolving throughout the hardships. The war with the broken cardassians and The Dominion/jem Hadar. Once ds9 found its footing, it became the best of the Star Trek Vision. It may have taken some time but unlike the other series, it became an Epic. Not just a great sci-fi. It's ending was a bit tragic but the rest was story telling at its finest.
In the pale moonlight when Sisko says "I can live with it." he isnt just convincing himself with that manrta but also pointing out that not choosing to go along with the plot could result in his own death. As in "I can live with it, or I could die without it."
I was born in 1995 in the United Kingdom (still live there) so science fiction wasn't really talked about, especially after Doctor Who was cancelled. One of the first DVDs I purchased was all of TNG, then I went to DS9 Best decision I ever made. The series is wonderful, looking through the dark periphery of utopia. It was so dark and so elegantly written. Avery Brooks was magnificent as Sisko, as was everyone. True phenomenon
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As usual a fantastic retrospective.
I haven't seen Raised by Wolves so I couldn't tell you. Season 4 of Disco isn't out yet so I don't know that either haha.
how about How THE vulcan Changed - LORE EVOLUTION?
DS9 and Voyager is shit though and should be erased from canon!
Frankly I loved DS9 From day one
You keep getting it wrong, he’s not a spy, he’s just plain, simple Garak.
He also has rights!
He is a tailor and a good one.
That’s the sad part: he’s a very good tailor
Dr. Bashir: "What I want to know is, out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?"
Garak : "My dear Doctor, they're all true."
Dr. Bashir : "Even the lies?"
Garak : "ESPECIALLY the lies" 🤣 BEST DIALOGUE EVER!
His views on "The boy who cried wolf" were my favourite. The moral is not to tell the same lie twice!
Deep Space Nine isn't the Star Trek I grew up loving, it's the Star Trek I had to grow up to love.
Couldn't have said it better
It's not Star Trek to begin with! Looks like shit and no charisma in characters. Not to mention the insanely boring stories and plots(or complete lack thereof).
@@js0988 are you sure you didn't watch The Motion Picture by mistake?
@@js0988 seriously, either you have no taste or are just being a troll, I am going for the latter
@@sokonek1 I bet you think Seinfeld was funny.
It is the most underrated series of the franchise. It has aged better than any other series because it was years ahead of its time.
How is it underrated? Everyone considers it the best Star Trek ever made.
@@fakecubed for one thing it was seen as derivative or a plagiarism of Babylon 5. And second it didn’t get the tv ratings that TNG had.
It's easily the finest and Sisko the best captain.
Underrated? How? Just about all fans rank it from 1, 2 or 3 best out of the 9 live action series (along with TNG). For many fans it is their #1. Different IMDb fan polls all have it in the top 3.
@@zhaoliang4217 Read my previous post.
"the character of Miles O'Brien was very well-liked by the writers." makes me laugh, because of one of the show's primary themes, "O'Brien Must Suffer." :P
Ah the "OBrien mut suffer" called episodes. The writers are also so good that they are really good at torturing whom they love.
It's the plight of engineering chiefs in the 90's. Geordi, O'Brien, hell they even killed Scotty... I don't know what engineers did to piss off Trek writers, but jeez...
@@ScruffMcGruff86 i mean, writers hate engineers. they are too smart for writers to like.
@@aredub1847 I'm detecting a slight field variance in the positronic phase inducer. Yiu need to energize the wave propulsion nullifyer.
At least all this suffering pay off, him being the most important man in starfleet history
DS9 is my favorite series in all of Trek so far, Avery Brooks' portrayal of Ben Sisko is my favorite character, and I thank you for doing justice to the show.
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You would say that, you're clearly Ira Stephen Behr!
Same!
Mine also
Happy Sisko always felt weird, but he was great the rest of the time
I love that Wil Weaton didn't watch this show until like 2020 and straight up Facebook posted "The kids in this show had more character in one episode than I was allowed to have in the entire TNG." Lol Such an amazing show, best Trek ever.
I so agree with you. DS9 rocked!
WW will say anything if he think it will get him another gig.
Wil was bitter about something? Wow. I had no idea. You're telling me for the first time.
bro you were kid ensign, how much character do you think you are supposed to have
It was near-poetic to learn of WW's such conclusion of the fate of his fictional character.
The universe may have hated Miles O'Brien but he's loved by most.
He is master of all trades. He is a force to be reckoned with and also one of my favorite characters.
Miles must suffer!!!
The best button pusher on the enterprise.
He's the most important man in starfleet 😂 (Lower decks reference)
Miles, the Ace of all Trades.
When all is said and done, I think DS9 has aged better than any of the other 90's Trek, in large part to how it looked inwards at humanity, it's writing, it's tendency to take risks with the Trek formula, and it's approach to visual effects. Well done on this video. I very much look forward to your Voyager Retrospective, which I'm sure is a long way off.
DVD and streaming technologies, as well as changes in social norms helped. It just has been ahead of its time.
Honestly ds9 is just some of the best trek ever
Yeah DS9 and enterprise in my opinion aged the best . I know most Trekkies don’t rate enterprise but I do highly
No way. Seasons 5-7 of TNG are, for the most part, pure masterpieces. DS9 has far more whiffs than TNG does.
@@TheSquad4life TNG is the best Trek, DS9 is the best reflection of Trek.
"In the Pale Moonlight" is my favorite episode of any Star Trek show. And I've seen them all. The final monologue by Brooks gives me chills every time.
It is a wonderful episode, for sure.
For me, it's pipped by Living Witness, just because I think it really was able to be all that Trek aspired to be.
I would round off a top 3 with Chain of Command, in that I really like both the stuff on the ship and the interrogation.
But In The Pale Moonlight is awesome, and I may rewatch it now...
I am almost 60 years old, Star Trek has been a part of my life for all of it. Last year was the first time I had watched DS9. I had held off thinking, I wasn't going to like it. While it is not the Star Trek you know, it is a Star Trek worth your time. I went through all the seasons in a week or so. Like all series with 26 episodes, there are some that save on the budget, it is just the reality of it all, but so many are so good, the fillers are not that bad.
IF you are like me, and have put it off for so many years, I can tell you I regret not watching it when it was on the air, but so very happy I did finally see it last year. I return to ALL of Star Trek each year, watching TOS, STNG, Enterprise and Voyager... I am very happy to add DS9 to my yearly watching of this great series.
breaking each bone in your hand with a hammer sounds like fun try it!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I didn't grow up with DS9 either but it became my favorite as an adult. On a rewatch, I've learned what episodes you can freely skip (alot in the early seasons)
@@Revz8bit that's cause in the early seasons everyone is getting used to writing the episodes and their character's that's why the later seasons are better cause they figure it all out then
i watched ds9 for the first time in my late teens/early twenties I think, for the same reason - thinking I would not like it. but it's SO good.
I initially didn't like it because as a kid Babylon 5 was one of my favorite TV shows and I foolishly thought DS9 was just a rip off. In my adulthood, DS9 became my favorite Trek show.
I still can't get over the fact that brunt and weyoun are played by the same person that's some fantastic acting
And then he went on to play yet another iconic alien with Shran that is totally different from the other two.
Oh my lord I had no idea that he played brunt...Jeffrey Coombs is my favorite actor of all time, and I never knew he played Brunt until just now, brilliant.
I had no idea!
Also I think he played another chratacter
I was unaware brunt and weyoun were played by the same actor as well. That's amazing!
Honestly, I think that the Cardasian race presented in DS9 was the most interesting race to be added to the cannon since the logical Vulcans.
The Cardassians reminded me of the former Soviet block.
@@ChrundleTGreat I thought they were facist jocks
There's an interesting dichotomy between their values. They are at once, totally uncaring for the rights of others, yet hold a deep and true love for their brothers.
Damar's "Awakening of empathy" when kira talks about his dead family, is a pivotal moment for Kardashian morality. To me, it was like he finally broke past that taught bigotry, and (hopefully) his love and care of cardassians expanded to all sentient life
*canon. Cannon is a weapon, lol
As a culture they were more fleshed out than any other although some might think it's the Klingons.
I haven't heard any scuttlebutt on The Obsidian Order Lately which Makes me nervous.
I was ten years old when this premiered. Four months short of eleven. I taped every episode with VHS, just like TNG. I’d rewatch the special effects frame by frame.
Never knew you where a Star Trek nut
I love TNG and DS9 Plus Voyager. But now I love Lower Desks and Picard Plus Discovery...
Whoa. When Tay comments I hear the comment in his voice. Such majesty
My father taped original series on Betamax when I was a kid. I taped TNG as an adult. I didn’t watch DS9 till about 2012 on Netflix.
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I'll never get over the sheer amount of love Ben and Jake have for each other. There were each others rock, they were also like best friends. This episode is perfect, every scene, every line performed beautifully.
"It can make the pacing feel a little SLUGish" - cut to scene of Jadzia's symbiant operation...
Lol I thought the same thing. No way that's an accident.
I literally was watching that part when I read your comment!
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I didn’t get it until I read your comment. Amazing editing
What a beautiful day, think I may go outside and...
*Rowan drops DS9 retrospective*
On the other hand...
you go outside? i had to go outside today for vaccine, rather have stayed in my room
Outside is overrated.
@@Murrlin27 but lettuce both agree inside > insides
As Bo said, it's a beautiful day to stay inside
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this show was as dark as startrek could get...
without stopping being trek.
and i loved every minute.
I enjoyed how Worf went from the guy who got his ridges kicked to a guy who can actually fight.
He went from "I must protest! I am NOT a merry man!"
to...
"Is there no Jem'Hadar willing to face me?" - Worf
"Seven battles, and seven victories! What hero of legend could have done as well?" - Martok
"I yield. I cannot defeat this Klingon. All I can do is kill him, and that no longer holds my interest." - Ikat'ika
@@RichO1701e that was the definition of kickass
All those losses were lessons to be taught. Worf learned well.
Sadly the Worf floor rug was the writer's way of trying to show how strong the weekly creature feature was. It just made him look sad around his occasional moments to shine.
"Captain, I protest - I AM NOT A MERRY MAN". Still love that one.
The visitor... It's always managed to reduce me to an emotional mess, but now I have my own children it hits even harder. What an episode though!
Also, RIP Aron Eisenberg. Gone far too soon.
When I see the visitor is the next episode in my rewatches I always have to mentally prepare myself for balling my eyes out for the next 40 min. It is downright my favorite tv episode of all time.
Once was enough for me - too close to home.
I lost my dad at 18 a couple years ago. I’m just getting into DS9 and watched the Visitor for the first time the other day. Fuck me that hurt
Martok didn’t give a shit about being a better warrior than kor. He was pissed that the master had blocked him from becoming an officer for so long and martok’s father died before he could see his son become a great warrior
It's a rough episode if you've lost a parent/parental figure, one of the best of DS9 but also one I can't, or struggle to watch when revisiting the show. The writers of that episode are amazing for that. It's like Luck of the Fryish or Jurassic Bark from Futurama, excellent episodes but just too emotionally damaging to rewatch.
Every time I rewatch this and get to the ending, “Deep Space Nine is, without question, Star Trek at its absolute best!” I find myself sitting up straight and saluting. This show got me through a rough phase of young adulthood, and the quality of the writing, characters, and overarching story is definitely part of why. Thank you, DS9, and thank you Rowan for this excellent retrospective on it! 🫡
How powerful must O'Brien's character be to have exactly the same characteristics in a mirror universe... that is some transcendent levels of power.
He's a fixed point in space and time... oops, wrong show.
The universe gave him such a hard time (pun intended) because it feared his strength.
In the show Hell On Wheels, his character is 180° the complete opposite. He's the Sean Bean of TV actors; equally convincing as the hero or villain.
Bonus: Anson Mount, also from Hell On Wheels is now Capt Pike in Strange New Worlds.
Not only is DS9 the greatest Star Trek, it is one of the greatest shows to ever appear on TV. It was massively ahead of it's time with the ongoing arcs and serialized episodes, things that are rather common these days. Enjoyed every minute (even Move Along Home).
It also was wayyyyyyy ahead of it's times in terms of social themes, and addressed those themes with far more grace and complexity than I would have guessed.
Everything from big issues like terrorism, war, poverty, and racism to individual issues like forbidden love and single parenting is given serious weight in the show. And what surprised me the most is that the show is NEVER preachy when addressing these difficult issues, it just presents you with an interesting moral conflict and sometimes has you really questioning whether the characters did the right thing.
Really makes you think why they can't recapture the same formula in the more recent Treks.
@@afroohar Kurtzman and company cannot write. It’s that simple
It’s aged like fine wine - I’m just shy of 40 and my opinion of it just keeps going up and up.
"Allamaraine, count to four,
Allamaraine, then three more,
Allamaraine, if you can see,
Allamaraine, you'll come with me..."
@@afroohar while new trek handles social issues with a surgeon's......sledgehammer. Paging Dr. Gallagher.
Serialized episodes and ongoing arcs was nothing new at all. But I agree with the rest of your statement.
Strange how at the beginning they wanted Brooks to differentiate Sisko from Hawk, yet when he embodied Hawk again the show got really good.
Another case of growing the beard (and in this case, shaving the head)
Louise Fletcher, bless her, was absolutely brilliant. You know you've created a special villain when people think you were in more episodes than you actually were. It's amazing how two shows set on space stations have two of the most memorable villains in all of sci-fi, and neither character was actually in their respective shows as much as we think.
Perfectly cast in her role.
Kai Winn IMO is a masterclass in how to write an antagonist.
That first scene with The Prophets, "Why do you exist here?" Was really affecting to me at the time, and stayed with me since.
Sisko's line that he sees her like that everytime he closes his eyes hit home for me.
"No....it is not linear."
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Seriously! I get a channel that reruns every Star Trek series on a loop (one episode of each series per night) and I’ve kinda paused rewatching them lately, but Emmisary pops up on the TV guide and I HAVE to watch Sisko’s experience with the Prophets. ART.
Garak: I find all this acting most distasteful!
Dukat: I suppose you’d prefer the simplicity of a RECORDING BOOTH!
Garak: You have to admit, it’s much more civilized!
snort!
I can say one thing about Gul Dukat's singing. It's torture.
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My favorite ever Garak line is something he never actually said because it was only a simulation of him!
"You mean no one told you the plan? You see, I pretend to be their friend... and then I shoot you."
When I first watched DS9 I was in it mainly for the Ferengi episodes. They’re still my favorite. When Sisko tests Nog to get into Starfleet and Nog gives his speech - that really hit me. But I’ve grown to appreciate all the many other subplots in this series.
They really gave layers and nuance to the Ferengi.
And this show produced the best episode of Star Trek, ever: In The Pale Moonlight.
City on the edge of forever is pretty hard to beat
I say a coin toss
not the episodes of DS9 where the Ferengis kept cross-dressing for some reason?
@@purefoldnz3070 As stupid as it is, I actually enjoy it simply because I like Ferengi episodes.
@@ItsDSP Body Parts and Business as Usual are in my top 10 DS9 episodes.
The Visitor is the best trek ep ever IMO
I was lucky enough to actually see her in that Tour of "Chicago" that you pictured. Nana Visitor was AMAZING.
Such good timing because it's her birthday haha
I was so happy when they had her sing "fever" in s6!
But God she's a dreadful actress - almost - almost as bad as Robin Curtis.
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What fascinates me most about Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast is the dysfunctional and manipulative relationship between Tain and Garak. It's so heartbreaking that Garak's own father never acknowledged Garak as his son, tried to have him killed and when that failed, shamelessly manipulated him for his own purposes. Garak, who should have been able to see through the manipulation, longed so much to return home and have some sort of relationship with his father that he set aside his instincts and played right into Tain's hand. At least, that's how I see it. Growing up like that, it's little wonder he became what he was. It was his way of surviving his own personal dysfunctional, chaotic world.
Odo is the outside observer who speaks the truth to Garak, but Garak can't or won't let go of his "magical thinking" regarding his father, and arguably never does, even up until Tain dies in a Dominion POW camp in a later episode, the title of which escapes me just now. It's a heartbreaking example of what so many abused and neglected children go through all their lives. That doesn't excuse Garak's behaviour or absolve him of responsibility for his own actions, but it does make him more understandable.
The final scene in "far beyond the stars" always hit me in my gut and soul. Never seen an actor (TV, not stage) delve so deep and lose themselves in the moment. Chills...pure chills
does not make me cry all be it I do feel sad watching it so I win yay😊
It always amazes me how appropriate the lessons of Paradise Lost and Only a Paper Moon would play out in real life with 9/11 and the reaction to the attack and the wars that followed. The writers of DS9 were really ahead of its time.
And also the discussion of religion and its place in education. I didn't discover DS9 until the 2010s, but it blew me away that they covered such a controversial topic as its first season finale in the early 90s, a topic that is even more controversial and divisive today
Okay but thats as if the themes of veterans, amputees and trauma is only relevant or made significant by 9/11. I think for American audiences it became super relevant again, but thats cuz it was neglected so long in the public eye.
Section 31 is that dirty little open secret that ANY long lasting society would have, if indeed it WANTED to be long lasting. They are that agency that HAS to CONSTANTLY answer the “what’s the worst case scenario?” question with a plan that ensures survival. The irony in DS9 is that THEY were the ones who created the cure that ultimately ended the Dominion War, even if that wasn’t their intention. Their existence proves that no matter how shiny and Utopian the Federation may APPEAR to be on the surface , there was a LOT of dirty work done in the background to GET it there and KEEP it there. They are the ones who realize that no matter how “enlightened “ YOU may be, it doesn’t mean that everyone around you feels the same, even those who are supposed to be your Allies. The slippery slope that Section 31 occupies, and their unchecked autonomy is a constant reminder of the road to Hell being paved with good intentions.
Very well said.
The notion that democracies must necessarily be undergirded by super secret organizations empowered with a license to kill and answerable only to themselves definitely has the ring of truth, like all the best lies.
I really go back and forth about how I feel about Section 31. I think DS9 handles it very well, because it just leaves the question open about whether Section 31 is real and sanctioned by the Federation leadership or just an extremist group claiming to do dirty work for high ideals. You aren't given a solid answer, and it's left open to the viewer to ask that of themselves.
Later iterations, through the Kelvin films and the current Star Trek shows, really seem to embrace its existence, and I'm not a very big fan of that. I think it says a lot about the change in popular ideals post-9/11 where everyone was cynical and not willing to believe in a better society being possible without skeletons in the closet, and that's reflected in the way ongoing writers are still so attached to the idea.
Another wonderful look at Star Trek. 2 hours just doesn't seem enough for DS9.
I told that Rowan jerk to do it season by season but he just brushed it off as extra work.
I am being factious Rowan; love your work.
DS9 needs at least 176 hours. 😜
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Agreed
I made it 99% of the way through this retrospective with nary a tear... then you showed Jake looking out the promenade window wondering about his father with the Prophets to a shot of Ben with Jake as a child looking through the window at their new home, DS9, and I just lost it. It truly was the best Trek had to offer. Thank you for this. I needed it.
Forget Star Trek Picard. I want to see Star Trek Sisco, with Jake getting visions, like his father.
Sisko joining the prophets was a weak point in my opinion. It came off as cheezy to me. Jake was a great character, but Nog came off as better. It is a shame that Star Trek did not continue the Timeline. Seeing a Commander or Captain Nog would have been great.
@@EnsignRedSquad I tried watching Picard. I gave it three episodes and just could not continue. CBS destroyed Picard's image and the show has a nonsensical storyline.
@@bigl5343 I comletly agree---@JusticeForEcheb,
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I remember watching it in my brother's room on his TV, sitting on the edge of his bed. Then the signal was going out, so we went out into the living room to watch it.
I rewatched this (finished last ep today) and I think DS9, and especially the last 2 seasons are probably the best Star Trek has to offer.
it waits for you star trek deep space nine soon the wait will be over
Yep!
This is brilliant, thank you!
One thing I will disagree with slightly is the moment when Julian comes into his own. I think that change happens in "the quickening". It's when Julian faces massive, gut wrenching failure on a level he's never imagined, reckons with his own limitations, and shatters his remaining naivete. It's probably my favorite Julian centric episode (alongside "inter arma silent leges")
Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with your assessment up here as well.
That scene with Julian raging against a Vice Admiral really got my attention...This was the first time I had seen how good an actor Alexander Siddig really is...Hollywood took notice of him after that...
Absolutely agree
1.) Bashir
2.) The Doctor (voyager)
3.) Bones Mccoy
4.) Dr. Crusher
5. ) Flox
How i rank the doctors. If I where dying I'd know Bashir would go to Delta quad for me to get the cure.😆
But I'd have the Doctor stabilize me till he got back.
This is the retrospective I'm most looking forward too... debuting right about the time I get up and have to go to work. Can't wait to watch when I get home. Thanks so much for this series you have done!
Same, DS9 is my favorite. I can’t wait to watch it whilst pretending I’m at work
I waited with you. I woke up sick and was not gonna watch the thing I've waited for feeling like that!
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What a brilliant homage to the best Star Trek has ever given us: Deep Space Nine.
I think people willfully ignore how bloated this series was. There A LOT of useless garbage episodes in it, even in the late seasons.
@@rowlandbuck2703 yeah but that was a given in any 90s tv show, filler episodes.
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Right on! It's the absolute best!
Though I know it happened, it's hard to imagine any serious Star Trek fan opposing the idea of a black captain, even back in the early '90s. Avery Brooks is a remarkably talented actor and Benjamin Sisko is one of the greatest characters in the entire franchise.
Did it happen? I remember reading about the backlash against TNG in 1987 and there was a lot of similar grief from the fandom over the general premise of DS9 when that show premiered, but backlash against a black captain? Or a woman captain? I don’t recall seeing any of that back then. The narrator here says it happened, and I suppose that could be true in an extremely marginal sense, but he offers no evidence or examples. The article he speaks of relating to the fandom by Captain Pike-a-Chu makes no mention of this either, instead only focusing on more recent fan backlash against Michael Burnham and having LGBT regular characters in Trek.
If it did happen, I genuinely would like to know. At the time, I saw no evidence of it.
@@robertgrey7266yes it happened. People wrote into fan zeens and posted on usenets and forums.
However while the Sisko stuff was a vocal minority.
The anti Tuvok backlash was insane. With people breaking down lore reasons why vulcans couldn't be black.
Sisko explaining the concept of chronological existence and in return having the "prophets" ask "then why do you live here" refering to the moment of his wifes death was such and immensely powerful statement that stayed with me years later and had a huge impact when dealing with my own grief about my fathers passing.
Whoever wrote that piece of dialogue, i owe you...
DS9 is like the star trek you watch and love when you are advancing through really becoming a trekker. it's like a dungeon run you should only start when you are at least level 20, but when you do, it's absolutely awesome
That's a great assessment!!!!
I just couldn't watch this when it was on in the 90's. I was too into TNG. Occasionally is watch DS9 with my dad and I thought it was ok, but I never watched it on my own. And I LOVED Voyager.
It wasn't until 2007 that I decided to rewatch EVERYTHING and discovered just how great DS9 really was. Being older helped.
Sisko was the dad we all needed Jake was truly blessed
Such an amazing portrayal of a black man raising his son. So unfortunate it is very much looked over in that regard. Never got the credit it deserves for that.
breaks my heart that the show ended with his dad dying or at least leaving jake alone.
Sisko was okay, avery brooks is a racist and at best out of touch with reality.
One of the biggest missed opportunities of Deep Space Nine -- when we first learn about the Bajora in TNG, we're told they've been chased off their homeworld, and that there are large Bajoran populations on many worlds throughout the quadrant, often isolated and viewed as second class citizens. It's too bad we never had an episode where a Starfleet Bajoran officer came into conflict with Kira, who might've -- particularly in seasons one or two -- lashed out with a comment about the Bajorans who fled and never came back to help had no place on Bajor now that the Cardassians had left. Or maybe an episode on exiled Bajorans trying to return and getting into conflict with those who'd remained and suffered.
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Yes. And this show is almost 30 years old. Many stories have been told since, and it doesn’t seem to make enough difference. Sry, it’s depressing.
A different take on the French situation of World War II where you had those that stayed behind in occupied France and then the Free French who fled to Great Britain.
In the post show novels Ensign Ro joins the station (shes been promoted i think) and she and kira don't see eye to eye on the subject of the Bajoran Religeon. Ro gave up on her faith when she left the refugee camps to join starfleet where as kira had nothing but her faith when she was with the resistance cell. Good reading 👍
Watched the entire show in January. It is epic and nuanced moreover it has ‘soul’. A masterpiece. This review is every bit as emotional as watching some of the key episodes. Thank you Rowan.
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Of the Trek series... DS9 had: the best main ensemble, the best Captain, the best writing and direction, the best supporting cast, the strongest season-series arcs, and the best takes not only on the original species like Klingons and Romulans, but multiple other alien cultures as well. Trek at its absolute peak, imo.
Sisko is my favorite Star Trek character. As much as I like Picard, Sisko is just so much better.
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Terry Ferrel is a goddess
Nana Visitor is so hot
Nicole de Boer is cute as a button
Totally agree. DS9 is far and away my favorite Trek, but Avery Brooks annoyed the crap out of me throughout the whole series with his ridiculous "huff and puff" mechanic whenever he got angry. It was so unconvincing and contrived, which is such a shame as he has such a commanding voice and presence otherwise. Also his stupid squeal of forced excitement in the first episode nearly had me switch off immediately, and I possibly would have had the plot not been so compelling.
It's baffling to me that his acting was so crap in this role as I have seen him in other roles and he was great. Each time I rewatch the series (lost count how many times now) his performance gets a little more annoying. So sad considering how much I adore everything else about the series.
Looking back, it seems ridiculous now how controversial Dax's lesbian kiss was doesn't it? Star Trek really has been a major cultural trail blazer.
@@alaricgoldkuhl155 I agree w/ Brooks' acting! It always struck me more like theatre acting, which is generally fine but on screen--and especially next to so many actors NOT doing that--it was just so, so strange. However, there are plenty amazing parts of the show to more than make up for that in my opinion
The Dominion War is the best war in Trek history. Any Trek show after DS9 tries hard to be like it.
Too hard sometimes even.
The Xindi War in Enterprise tried to capture the same feel, but it never really hit the same for me. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it though, and Enterprise is actually my favorite Star Trek series.
@@FreakDaMIghet I honestly wouldn't mind more war centric story arcs in Star Trek. I just think there should be a proper build up to them. At the same time, I wouldn't war stories to become too dominant in story telling. Otherwise it looses its edge and makes war seem trivial.
@@RabbitShirak no kidding. Pew pew
@@RabbitShirak Good point. Takes a lot of skill to write the dominion war in such a way that you can have other adventures unrelated to it. But at the same time you have the serious nature of the war in the back ground. Seeing the characters look at casualty reports really drives home how life and death this struggle is
Due to it not coming to Australian television until much later, I had the fortune (?) of only being able to watch Deep Space Nine on casette tape, which meant I was able to watch the series in order without missing any episodes. Truly far and away ahead of its time and absolutely my favourite Star Trek series.
DS9 is definitely my favorite Trek show (and one of my favorite shows in general), in no small part due to how it treats religion. Also it has the best characters imo
I feel ya DS9 dealt with issues like race Politics and culture franchise all come down to good sci fi series.
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Star Trek: DS9, Retrospective. Star Trek the best in sci-fi, DS9 the best iterations of Trek!
The ratings of DS9 on IMDB with a 173 episodes, had 105 episodes with rating of 7.5 and over.
That’s 60%, TNG only had 47% that’s 84 episodes with ratings of over 7.5.
Well done, kudos Mr. Rowan J. Coleman. Thank you!!!
It wouldn't surprise me if there's a conscious effort to keep TNG at 47% appreciation. Because 47.
IMDB ratings? The same site that has ratings of Discovery season 1 so high? Those older ratings might be more reliable than any recent show's ratings though. People used to be a lot less pathetic than they are now.
Personally I like DS9 better than TNG. I also like TOS slightly better than DS9.
But then again, I like B5 better than all of trek except for the TMP movies.
@@Drebin2293 Season 1 of Discovery was good. I expected to dislike Discovery based on other's hate, then finally watched it during COVID. I was so wrong. The latter half of season 3 is an issue for me but not the first 2 seasons.
@@WillSams Eh, to each their own I guess. I wanted to murder Burnham after her little mutiny and the subsequent fallout. Having served in the marines myself, I can say that I would've probably shot her on the spot. If she'd been a throwaway character, and received a just punishment, then that would be different. But nope. She's got plot armor. She's a special snowflake. Blek.
@@WillSams so you were ok with killion off the Klingon race
Duet is one of the best episodes of any Star Trek that ever aired. I had many of the same feelings about the first season. The more episodic stories felt a bit contrived, but this episode stood out immensely. A good story is a good story.
Absolutely my favorite as well!
One of my favorite moments of Duet is right at the end, after Martiza is stabbed. Kira asks “Why!? He wasn’t Darhe’el!” and the other Bajoran says “He’s a Cardassian! Isn’t that enough!?” Kira says “No!” and in the space of a few moments you can see in her expression that it’s really hitting her what she’s about to say and that she’s about to mean it. “It’s not!” She already had the revelation about Martiza in his cell, but that moment is a revelation for her of just how much this shook her worldview.
@@FanStoryVideoStudios I remember that moment exactly. She was taking him from the cell through the promenade to a ship. He tells Kira that he had hoped his trial would force the change necessary to save his people, but that he had failed.
But he didn't fail. In helping Kira to grow, she was able to forge relationships with Cardassian resistance members later in the show, thereby stalling the Founders long enough for Odo to forge his own relationship with his people.
Kira was pivotal, both in bringing the Cardassians and Bajorans together against the Founders, but also by loving and supporting Odo, who shared his love and appreciation of "solids" with his people.
Without Kira, the war would have waged on, and the Alpha Sector would have most likely been lost.
Unbeknownst the the file clerk in disguise, he had helped to save Carassia long after his own death.
DS9's storytelling is underrated in my opinion. There are so many fantastic stories that tie together in very subtle ways.
The way you describe this series is akin to reading a masterfully written novel; the way you speak about these characters and their threads is inspiring.
I love Deep Space 9 far above the others. One of the elements that was so compelling was the relationship between colony and colonizer, Bajor and Cardassia. You see the will of the oppressed to overcome their subjugators even after an official armistice, and the justifications of empire. This was so remarkably portrayed by the characters of Kira Nerys, Ducat, and Garak. There were a few points in some of the episodes when I thought that at least one of the writers and I shared the same ethnicity to know so well the history of a conquered people whose lands were occupied. It turned out they were just excellent writers. A part of me wants the characters to come back in some way in more episodes or a movie, but, considering the rubbish that were the Next Generation movies, I will be content to remember Deep Space 9 as a remarkable series that had its wonderful moment in Star Trek and TV history.
DS9 is my secret favorite.
That whole Vic Fontaine arc was incredibly well done, these dark undertones of the show combined with sad Jazz vocals just works so well.
Really made me feel for Nog.
They really outdid themselves.
It's obviously not TNG and TOS, but it's in my top 3.
What i liked about DS9 is that despite humans being so advanced, cultured, and moral, the series showed that they still had flaws to overcome and by the end, they did overcome.
DS9 is up there with TOS and have both on DVD. Sometimes the episodes get so Shakespearian. Garak & Dukat are my favourite characters, they just eat up the screen when on.
Mike and ds9 is arguably the darkest star trek series ever lorio to to discovery
Garak and Dukat are my favorites too :-)
I know what's been said, but I REALLY, REALLY want a Blu-ray release of DS9. I thought I heard some scuttlebutt about them working on cleaning the show up, but maybe I misinterpreted the significance. I hope not!
@@zacharyjochumsen9677 Discovery is dark in a different way, as in the dreary type, DS9 is just a master peace.
Kira was such a damn well-realized character.
Such a powerful and convincing performance. Nana Visitor is one of the best actors Star Trek has to offer.
No she wasn’t
@@LadyAstarionAncunin What a smoke show that women!
@@DanielBrown-yh8yy She was, 100%, but okay. She was multifaceted and compelling. An incredible role and so well acted.
@@LadyAstarionAncunin Kira was self righteous and arrogant which would be ok if this changed throughout the show as part of her character arc. It barely did with her just becoming a little less of a dick, and what's worse she was never punished or faced any consequences as a result of this. Instead other (good guy) characters couldn't help but love her despite her constantly having a go and crossing other characters along with her relative lack of positive characteristics. This entire personality was completely at odds with her appointed position on DS9 where she became largely responsible for the relations between Bajor and the Federation. Her lack of diplomatic tact with her abrasive personality is completely at odds with this task raising the question why was she assigned there. This is particularly prominent when looking at her qualifications and experiences of which she has non in relation to the administration of a space station (especially the most important on in the quadrant) since she spent her time in the resistance hiding in mountains and performing the occasional ambush etc. Kira's views and actions are constantly vindicated in the face of basic logic, a trait she shares with the entire Bajoran species. This is bad writing and detracts from her character and the show as a whole. Then there's her and Odo's love arc which was retconned out of nowhere and was created to appease the same type of fan to made fanart between Kirk and Spock. That is not a good thing.
What I can agree with you on however is that she was well acted. While, I presume, you believe this was in part due to her character, I would say she was well acted in spite of it.
I would write more but this is far too long for a youtube comment as it is and quite frankly I cant be bothered.
21:39 "it can make the pacing feel a little sluggish"
*shows Trill slug transplant
well done Rowan, well done indeed
Rowan, I have always enjoyed and appreciated your Star Trek oriented content, however, THESE retrospective essays in general and this one in particular are BY FAR my favorites, and in my opinion, not only your best work, but some of the BEST fan based Star Trek content on the internet.
Thank you 1000 times!!!
The nature of the show wasn’t exploring new planets, but the show it self “bold went where no man had gone before” with characters, story, and writing. That’s about the most Star Trek thing it could possibly do
The amount of work you've put into this is absolutely staggering. Thank you for this, truly.
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Colm Meaney. When watching his performances I never thought of him as acting.👍👍
"Duet" is honestly one of the best episodes of trek in any series
Deep Space Nine is one of those network shows that feels like a cable show and paved the way for shows like breaking bad. Love this show.
I have watched DS9 from the start, thru its end as it aired. I have rewatched the series countless times. DS9 is by far my favorite television series of the 20th century. I absolutely cannot express how much I enjoyed this retrospective. Every key episode was hit upon, all of the scenes that endure with me to this day were expressed. The one thing I wanted to add is how Sisko's story relates to that of Moses. DS9 is an Exodus story. We see a religious figure who leads a group to a new promised land, yet he himself never gets see the fruit of his labors.
I never saw it like that but I can picture with how it ended very bittersweet with the conclusion.
As someone born in the early 2000s I’m glad that my dad raised me on these “old” sci-fi series and especially deep space nine. It’ll always have a special place in my heart.
Bringing Worf in season 4 was brilliant. It brought in new blood in to DS9
Take worf out of the show does the show really change ?
Nope
Worf the awful father worf dealing with Klingon nonsense etc etc same shit from tng
General martok was the klingon I always hoped in worf would be
@@seanodeli7031 yes worf has a direct affect on dax. her arc changes greatly without worf and it means that Bashir would probably develop a relationship with dax which takes away from the miles and Bashir aspect. also worf allows for another high ranking second in command from the federation. which allows kira to do a lot more off the station without losing a command structure
I dare anyone to watch "The Visitor" and not tear up at the end. "In the Pale Moonlight" in my opinion is the absolute best episode of any Star Trek series hands down, although some others come very close.
One point you missed covering was the relationship between Garak and Enabrin Tain and how that explains Garak's motivations and sudden reversal in "Improbable Cause".
I dare anyone to watch B5.
I used to get shouted down by those who believed that ToS and STNG were far superior to DS9. Now, they don't say a word. DS9 gets better with age.
I love how the ferengi are such an accurate definition of us humans. Greedy, inventive, opportunistic, unpredictable and still lovable.
Don't forget licivious. Ferengi would have a field day running crypto schemes, managing OnlyFans, selling weapons to Russia and Ukraine, and running MLMs.
@@richardarriaga6271
So basically USA & minions ?
Because "us humans" per P.D. Wesp's definition in this context doesn't apply to approx. 90% of Humanity.
and "still lovable" ... yeah, from whose perspective ?
When I tell you I've been waiting for this episode since the start of this series... DS9 is absolutely my favorite, and IMO the BEST series of Star Trek. Great characters, great writing, and great production!
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I have not watched the visitor in many years it's to much for me. My own father died the year before the episode first aired. And it seemed so real, so unbearable. It really shows what a splendid actor Tony Todd is, perhaps I will revisit it soon.
Same. I watched it in 1994 and haven’t since. Don’t think I can handle it again 😭
@ginomo80 really shows off the great talent of Lofton and Todd, we don't see enough of them in film and tv
@@ginomo80 Oh man… Same again here. My dad passed just a few years before and that episode crushed me. I’ve rewatched the rest of the series any number of times… except for The Visitor. I think I have watched that episode exactly twice, including the original air date.
Need a fun alien? Call Jeffrey Combs. It was such a pleasant surprise the first time I saw Shran.
Does he still want a hologram from nana visitor XD And Brunt .
The visitor is so hard to get through without welling up.
Amen! Hallelujah! DS9 is the writing, acting, and patient character development that has become woefully absent in most modern television! Thank you for sharing such an insightfully excellent commentary, Drinker!!
DS9 is a Star Trek masterpiece.
The criticism that it was stuck on a station is so funny. They went to planets all the time!
And a TNG bottle episode were the entire drama unfolds on the ship or holodeck was very frequent!
It’s funny; Not only do I have hard time not crying whenever I watch ’What you leave behind’, I’m also finding it hard not to shed a tear when Rowan discusses the series finale and shows clips of characters saying goodbye to each other.
Easily my favourite series of the franchise, aged like a fine wine.
I cried my eyes out for the last five minutes of this video
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I recently got into star trek. Honestly, I find myself binging through the shows partly because I enjoy them, and partly because I wanna be all caught up when the next retrospective video comes out lol
DS9 is probably the most thematically similar of the Star Trek shows to the profile picture you got there, so I hope you enjoyed it/enjoy it when you get to it.
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DS9 is one of the best Series ever made. Way outclassing all other Startrek shows.. it is really up there
That was totally epic!! Well done. DS9 (for me) is the show that all other shows have to measure up to. Few do.
Just finished Deep Space 9 for the first time, and it is definitely my favorite Star Trek show
Deep space nine deserves more respect from the fan base
I grew up watching Star Trek, but specifically avoided DS9 due to it being darker, grittier and not really in Gene's vision. Nearly 30 years later, I finally decided to watch it on Netflix and it's now my favorite series in the ST universe, as well as one of my favorite series in general.
My controversial take: TOS & early TNG represented Roddenberry's unquestioned idealism of the future, but it was also a meta allegory for Roddenberry's unquestioned arrogant high opinion of himself.
However DS9 and select eps of later TNG would deconstruct both the Federation depicted in earlier shows and Gene Roddenberry himself as both were very flawed beings and concepts hiding under the veneer of their own mythology & reputation.
Pretty accurate, actually.
Flawed Federation, but never refuting the ideals and aspirations that undergirded it. Which is one of the many reasons these shows still "get it", even when they go dark, and KurtzTrek does not.
Still I like the idea of an Utopia trying to overcome societies flaws. I think it hasn't been explored enough and would like to see a comeback instead the violence obsessed ventures of recent years
But at the same time lose some of its optimism for the future. The Federation is taken down a peg (many pegs, actually) and many people lamented that optimism which was Star Trek and TNG. Don't take me wrong, DS9 did a tremendous job with its darker tone and is truly excellent.
@@brauliob It didn't lose it. Just showed that in an imperfect world and imperfect galaxy, it would not be trouble free. That is a more nuanced, adult view. As opposed to NuTrek, being written by cynical, nihilistic children, who think the world is horrible, not because they have seen for a fact that it is, because they have been told it is, and that cynicism is moral, right and should color everything they do. They have rejected a classical education, they don't have the life experiences to inform them, and have a pensive pose, with chromatic hair and piercings. So, they don't just ask questions about an optimistic future, they reject it out of hand and declare it a lie. Which is why KurtzTrek is so bad and those who invoke DS9 in its defense simply have no idea what they are talking about.
This is one of thise instances where all the pieces somehow some way fell into place with near perfection. The writers, actors, directors and all the rest of the staff have an obvious passion for their craft and the subject at hand. DS9 is a brilliant edition to start trek.
The wait is killing me! DS9 has always been my favorite Star Trek. I appreciate your hard work so much! Bravo! Can't wait!
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I listened to this whole documentary without stopping. DS9 is the best written show I have ever watched. The show has the best characters and supporting characters. Hell, even the supporting characters could carry entire episodes. Thank you for making this video!
Well said and good explanation on what makes DS9 so-GOOD.
This series is fantastic. Some of the best on TH-cam. I can’t imagine how much time you spent compiling the information and footage. Well done my friend. Thank you.
I grew up watching TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT. DS9 was the most story drive, diverse and well written. While I look back on all of them and love each show in there own way I could never warm up to Discovery or even Picard. The media sets Discovery up as though it is THE most well written and diverse of ANY Star Trek out there and it's not and the Documentary for DS9 in my opinion is good evidence. While Discovery does have a few things in the way of diversity they weren't the first nor the best at it and the writing in the show proves it. I'm gonna get a lot of flak for that but that's the good thing about opinions, we can agree to disagree and try to shift opinions but each experience is unique and shouldn't be discounted out of hand.
Completely agree. So many media articles stating Discovery is first to have strong women, or diverse cast, as if the previous Trek shows don't exist. I can only imagine they hope the youth of today don't know about Trek's past or can't be bothered to go watch for themselves.
I fully agree with your points about Discovery. Another I would add is its ego-driven focus on Burnham. While prior series do weigh narratively on the captain, they give other characters active roles driving the plot as well. DS9 was the best at giving its main crew and extended cast time to shine. OTOH Discovery continues to singularly focus on Burnham far too often, and she wasn't even the captain. At least it could be argued that Picard earned that right.
Ugh, I hate how people are so quick to praise something that they take a dump on something else that did it first and act like the original never existed.
Oh Carol Danvers is so great because she's a woman taking over the role of Captain Marvel.
Really? What about Monica Rambeau? She had was Captain Marvel in the 80s and was a black woman AND was leader of the Avengers.
Oh, Discovery has a black lead and a woman. We have a gay couple.
Yeah, DS9 had a black man and Voyager had a woman. DS9 had a pansexual woman and a Cardassian that was into everything. The only reason DS9 didn't have a gay couple is because there weren't enough people watching back then and it would get them cancelled. (Where were you? Why weren't you watching?) Hey Discovery, how about something new? Trek has never had an Asian lead or a black lead that wasn't played by an American. How about an Indian character? They make up a seventh of our population and the only Indian named character was played by a guy from Mexico and a very white Brit.
As far as STD goes, and new trek in general, sure, there are fans who are bigots, but I think many people are missing the mark, by calling fans who dislike the new shows racist, mysogynists etc.
I, for one, have no problem with diversity. But when 'diversity' is the whole selling point of a show, being shouted from the rooftops day and night, without there being a good story or show behind it, I believe THAT is perceived as "forced diversity":
The problem is not diversity in itself, but rather, that there is nothing else but diversity, and add to that the weaponisation of diversity, as in 'if ou dont like the show, you are a racist!"
Make a compelling show first, and make it diverse.
Also, I greatly apreciate ST for the optimism and for the cast usually being professionals and rational beings first, rather than petty idiots and drama queens like in so much other media.
by all means, keep them flawed, hell, keep the federation flawed. But remember that 'flawed' should be 'good but not perfect'. NOT 'totally bad and evil'.
And that is, I think, where New Trek also fails hard; it makes for just another rump of pessimistic totalitarians just like 99-point-odd-% of other Sci-Fi. It basically lost what made Trek ...well...Trek.
Somewhat understandable from a production view, since limiting character conflic and stupidity makes writing more difficult.
Lastly, not only Trek but other franchises, too, suffer from the recent new imaginations deliberately going out of their way to deconstruct and obliterate what came before them. The new films and shows are not introducing new characters and stories of their own, with an occasional nod to what came before them, but seemingly all aim to take every aspect of the old material and destrox them, kill the old characters, make them into broken and evil ones, destroy or villify organisations and whatnot.
All those aspects together make for a rather bad reception of the new stuff and alienates many fans, who then get tarred as racists to de-legitimise any critique.
It is never the new films/series, that maybe just aren't that good, it is always and exclusively the fault of the racist fan manbabies.
@@lutzderlurch7877 Just gotta point out... TNG, especially the first season, is very poorly written
Thus the 'make a compelling show first, then add diversity' nonsense you are spouting holds no weight. TNG is diversity first and compelling show a very far second
I’ve only recently come to love the intricate, nuanced, often timely layers of DS9. Back then, I could appreciate there being a Black Captain, a Black lead. Now, as an adult, a well traveled, open minded, Black women who as matured to love the cannon stories as well as see how everyday life influenced the tenor of many episodes/storylines, i have such a love an appreciation for DS9, the cast, the crew, the labor of love that went on to give us, the viewers this gift
Thank you so much for covering this. Your depth of knowledge, attention to detail, and the love you have for Trek is so appreciated and respected.
Thank you ❤
One thing I love about Worf in these final episodes is how after striking down Gowron he still saw the man as a friend and warrior. He is the only one to Cry out to warn the Honored dead that another warrior will soon be crossing the river of blood. It wasn’t just empty ceremony. Gowron has been fair to Worf according to every law and Klingon tradition. Except for that one trial in Rules of Engagement. Though I do think It was changing Martok that planned that out.
I am looking forward to this one, in particular. All of the Retrospectives have been great, but this one is on the best series in the franchise. I cannot wait to see the premiere!
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"The Visitor" will rip the heart out of any father watching it.
Finally have time to sit down and watch. I've said it before and I'll say it again - these are phenomenal and the detail of your craft is inspirational.
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The Snyder Cut of DS9 reviews! Wonderful video, thank you Rowan
The second DS9 turned from episodic to linear based, was the best thing to happen in star trek. It created a sense of urgency. Everything that happened from the jem Hadar addition ignited genius level writing to the end. The space wars, vs singular encounters, and knowing the characters to their core while still evolving throughout the hardships. The war with the broken cardassians and The Dominion/jem Hadar. Once ds9 found its footing, it became the best of the Star Trek Vision. It may have taken some time but unlike the other series, it became an Epic. Not just a great sci-fi. It's ending was a bit tragic but the rest was story telling at its finest.
In the pale moonlight when Sisko says "I can live with it." he isnt just convincing himself with that manrta but also pointing out that not choosing to go along with the plot could result in his own death. As in "I can live with it, or I could die without it."
I was born in 1995 in the United Kingdom (still live there) so science fiction wasn't really talked about, especially after Doctor Who was cancelled. One of the first DVDs I purchased was all of TNG, then I went to DS9
Best decision I ever made. The series is wonderful, looking through the dark periphery of utopia. It was so dark and so elegantly written. Avery Brooks was magnificent as Sisko, as was everyone. True phenomenon