Who are the most dangerous Spray Foam Insulation Installers? 5 "types" to Stay FAR FAR AWAY From!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ธ.ค. 2020
- This will give you good examples of who to stay away from when you are talking to an SPF company you are looking to hire.
If you are in the business.... don't be one of these guys
www.sprayjones.com/
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In my younger years I was a part-timer pressure washer guy. I know, not the same, but... I did my research, sold my car and used the money to buy an industrial washer trailer setup. I always did an excellent job. My equipment was top notch. My prices were same as industry pros. I paid a lot of bills with my part-timer gig. Not all part timers are clueless bums.
Good for you. That is true not the norm in a highly specialized industry.
One of the things I notice about these foam jobs is there is way more detail knowledge required than product being applied - just to walk through a site to see if it's even ready to shoot. Any detail that is wrong can bite you. I don't do this kind of work, but seems like you need to know about 75% of what a general contractor knows plus have a handle on overall building science basics to do good work.
and not all big professional companies are good or great ..... I have seen it plenty of times if businesses grow too much for their own good .. where the owner or the owners son or a foreman who worked with them for 5 or 10 years is "too busy" to go out not he jobs himself ... and then he sends the 2 new guys out ....what a clusterfuck .... then I would rather have the part timers or the newbie who has actual skin in the game and a name and reputation to make or loose instead of 2 new guys $15/h who could care less if they are doing a good job or not ...
@@flinch622 why would you need need to know 75% of what a general knows? As long as framing,electrical, and plumbing inspections have been passed you should be good.
Loved the video I myself am a third generation union Insulator/Tinknocker had 5 year trade school with regular re-up classes. So true that attention to detail and having a solid plan with good communication between other craft is paramount. You don't always get that but it's extremely satisfying when you do. Doing high density spray foam in a Nuke is always fun especially when it's the kind for lead shielding if I remember correctly P-90. All kinds of QC hold points, batch test samples have to be done periodically between spraying. I haven't done the closed cell spraying not much demand here that I know of. Sure would love to get the experience to add to my list of applications. We already do do Ammonia lines encapsulation for flash freezing equipment. Cryogenic work, chilled water, and refrigerant work.
Great video. I was initially thinking well all sprayfoam companies start somewhere with no experience after they purchase the equipment and get their installer certification. But it's true this type of business should start by hiring at least one installer with a few years experience to teach the other installers. I'm an attic Insulator with a TH-cam channel but I also got my sprayfoam certification 2 years ago because the company I work with needed me to be a helper in a few sprayfoam jobs. Thanks for sharing.
So hows it going today? I an considering it as a business venture. I currently install sprinkler systems outdoors and am ready for a change. Been doing it for 14 years. TIA ✌
I have been spraying great stuff foam in holes of my house for a couple years. I think I got enough experience to get a rig now. LOL
Very true. In fact that attitude is so so common.
Can I get a deal?
Your guns pattern always looks so good and clean cut, willing to bet you guys have multiple clean guns with someone keeping up replacing parts. Great video!
2 guns per rig. Know what you are doing and have good ppl to operate.
@@SprayJones how often do you need to change your cartridges? I currently spay with the graco prober p2 air purge gun and I’ve been debating switching to the graco fusion guns and was wondering what the advantages/disadvantages are between the two. Thanks.
@@jared2468 With good foam, proper parameters, good care of equipment a gun can run for 1 week sometimes 2 before needing a rebuild.
We hour-out chambers, side seals and springs after 30 - 40 sets.
You guys are by far the best foamers in the west I've never worked past Regina
I’m glad you make these videos. Unfortunately I found your channel AFTER I’ve had spray foam problems. I dealt with a cash guy and what I am guessing is a newer business. (He was licensed and insured though) They sprayed a job on a day that was too hot and too humid and I ended up having severe foam shrinkage problems, I ended up tearing out much of it after being concerned it was off ratio. Luckily he came back 4 months later to try and make it right, used a different brand foam (cause he blamed the foam for the shrinkage) and in the end I am still having concerns. 75% of the garage is one creamish color the last 25% of the job is blue and I am finding parts that are definitely off ratio. Anyway, thanks for the content!
Wow, that is horrible. Wish we could help you. Thanks for the info.
All these points are pretty universally applicable outside of spray foam too - ALL the trades. Makes me think of all these "Al's Whatever "and Construction."" Yeah....Forget the "and construction" part. That's just ASKIN' for trouble. lol Good stuff.
You are correct, but when it comes to spray foam people ignore the obvious and blame the foam.
@@SprayJones Well, yeah there IS THAT. Spray foam is kind of in a weird place right now. Gettin' a bad rap from what (in most cases) has not a damn thing to do with the foam. It's the typical (as with the other trades) bad/incorrect installation of the product. Well, AND the other thing: PEOPLE DON'T PAY ATTENTION!
The difference is that spray foam problems can cause damage that is far beyond cosmetic... other trades this can be true too, but it’s far easier to mess up spray foam to be dangerous then it is other trades.
@@dennispope8160 Easily created problems that go beyond cosmentic and that can be dangerous are not EVEN exclusive to spray foam. Electrical, plumbing, and HVAC are ALL on the exact same level with regard to these points.
+1... Agreed. ... Wish the was a Top-Tier spray foam contractor in Denver, Colorado! .. Good luck finding one. .. Cheers, M/S
As a 23 year spray former in the Intermountain West, Spray Jones knows what he's talking about. Spot on.
Thank You.
This is my first time seeing your channel ever.
I’m living in Maryland and I’m lookin for a flame retardant closed cell spray foam for a 40 foot school bus tiny house I’m trying to build myself for winter weather.
You seem to have a big reputation and be very loved by the commenters here so it looks like I’ve found a real Gem channel here, cool 😲
Gonna watch some videos and learn more about you here 🧐
Welcome aboard!
@@SprayJones Much Obliged Mr. Jones 💪🏽😎
After watching 5 of your videos thanks to your links in the description box, you’ve just earned yourself a subscriber too 👍🏽 Glad to be here. Gonna check out your website next.
Good video. I just got a poor job done. Noticeable odor as soon as you walk in the door. Could I Kilz the foam before we install wall coverings to eliminate the odor?
No kilz will do nothing for that.
Hello!! If I am looking for optimal sound insulation for common walls in my duplex (for privacy), would you recommend closed cell or open cell foam? Thanks
Open cell
Just had my new home cc sprayed I'm assuming the rig was not cleaned.as you said in this video because the guy was constantly cleaning the gun.he even clicked on a you tube video on how to clean it.these guys were not the cheapest but not most expensive either the job looks like crap.no uniform spray anywhere and I'm not sure how to fix this any ideas would be appreciated and the stud bays are not filled yet.i can send some pictures if you care to look.
I want to learn how to do this .what is best way to even start learning? I mean they don't have schools for it
Great video sprayjones really appreciate your content. If I could pick your brain for a minute I’d like to ask what mixing chamber / spray pattern you use? Also what psi do you typically spray at?
Graco Fusio AP. 01 chamber round. 1200 PSI static 1000 on dynamic.
The real setting is getting the temp goldilocks. That changes everyday and is sensitive.
Thanks. How do you know when you’re in the Goldilocks zone? Do you just play with the temps until you get the desired reaction from the foam?
@@michaelgray1523 Correct. Too cold is narrow, too hot is a mess. Just right is: max yield, speed and full pattern.
Start cold and bump up until you like it. Then check density to see how close you are to design.
@@SprayJones really appreciate the info! Do you have an opinion on the pro connect for the AP gun? Have you used it and if so is it worth the investment?
@@michaelgray1523 Nope. Don't use it.
I find most of my vendors are with in range of each other if I make sure the scope of work is the same. I consider spray foam a specialty trade and should be hired as such.
That is correct.
Great Video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Sounds more like a rant against competition. Yes, you have valid points but that doesn't always mean that some of these have no training or have been doing it on a part time basis to supplement income. As a business owner (Who has 30 years of knowledge) I plan on doing side jobs/part time for cash. Having employees and large overhead costs do drive the costs up and you can't compete. In the end skills matter and buyers do need to beware.
Look at some of the videos I already have made.... we burn the foam.
In the beginning of the video, what is the white exterior substrate you are spraying against?? Just curious, looks like tyvek or poly sheeting?
Tyvek. The builder did not want the foam against the steel.
@@SprayJones ok, im new to your channel but have a very successful foam/BIBS business in a cold climate resort area in Idaho. Ive never spayed Tyvek with ccspf due to adhesion issues. What are your thoughts?
@@kfd629 It is not the best choice that is for sure. It needs to be fully restrained where it can not move in any direction, then it is OK to spray to it. Otherwise no.
What he’s trying to say is this is rocket surgery.
Bruh this video was hilarious, commenting from Supreme Insulation in Florida 💪🏼
Glad you enjoyed!
I am located in innisfil Ontario and looking to have this installed in my new built shop ,
Who would you have install this in your building ?
Talk with BASF in TO, they will hook you up with installers for your area.
Lol I tried to get the underside of a mobile sprayed in Florida. Five operators would not do the job , it was they would not go under my 3 foot crawl space . One did say they wouldn’t but the minimum was 5 dollars a board foot. Sorry but that’s insane. Came close to being the part time, new guy. Been in Florida 3rd year and have yet to find a contractor that knew what he was doing on anything. It’s sad but scumbag seams to be the normal in the Clearwater area.
Yah that's rough.
My neck of the woods I used to have only about 5-7 Insulation Companies that did foam. Now we have 15-20 in a 30 mile radius. They have literally ruined the business, went out to do a quote recently, good size tract built house, customer wanted the roofline done, gave the estimate 24k, he said he found an installer to do it for 10k which is nuts. Literally makes no sense to do something that cheap. I was in the middle one bid was 18k mine was 24k, last bid was 28k this guy jumps to the 10k either the foam sets is stolen or they really are desperate.
Yes that is all too common. The SPF industry is dying and I am sorry to say I do not see a long term future in it anymore.
There are too many suppliers trying to sell product to whomever and then you get what you just described, idiots with no business sense giving prices that cannot sustain anyone other than a 1 truck 1 worker set up... working for wages and nothing more.
I have seen prices low enough that you can't make payments of the equipment..
Noooo the studs !!!! JK I like to get a proper seal and like my walls or whatever I’m spraying to be flush wish my company gave me down time to keep everything running perfect. What’s that material by the way ? 🤔
I did a cash job today 1400 square foot basement at 2inchs for 3,000$ in northern Ontario, product used was genyk certified 2lp foam! Customer was happy and loved the job and I was on my way. I don’t see the big deal with cash job? If the customer has a issue I’m a phone call away not a shady person who doesn’t answer phone calls. Cash is just a payment!
Why don't you also post your company name too Mr. Super Sprayer!? You'd rob a gas station with your name tag still on.
@@SprayJones The Foam guys from Barrie Ontario sir!
@@SprayJones what’s you’r deal Not trying to talk crap on here my friend. Really do enjoy watching the videos I Like to hear other people’s perspectives about foam!
@@mattmorin8863 Ok....... when say "Cash Deal" I am not talking about a form of payment. I am talking about willfully avoiding a quote and an invoice because the job is under the table and no record there of on the books. It is by definition illegal. That is my deal. I am about truthfulness, honesty and integrity.
@@SprayJones well very nice seems like a very legit company you run. Absolutely nothing wrong with that! I guess you can say I pay a lot of attention to detail on you’re videos & I’m curious with questions that’s all! Have a good day
Wish you were near Tucson, AZ
Me too at times.
I tell my customer if they ask if I can price match I tell them: cheap ain’t good, good work ain’t cheap. I can only confirm what your saying I drove 8h for a job as the other local foamer was not credible ... everything you said i experience ExAt same I’m only 2 years in the game but I lay some smooth butter now and my first jobs eher sea container and my own attic
In Jan 2021 have a vid on pricing and what to evaluate to determine what goes into a price.
Spray Jones yes that would be interesting I calculated my chemical cost per bf out and pretty much double the price wich means form my total bf price I have a bout 50-60% Chem cost depending on job amd the rest is Labour and equipment maintenance and pay off of loan. And with hfo changes we’ll see who has a decent foam and still Good r value I Wonder where basf is Gonna be.
Appretiate the very Good Videos I have no hesitation to even refer customers to watch your videos for Infos. Cheers
@@henryhenry5897 That's correct and how you should.
My video will be more towards the considerations for a buyer as to what will factor into their number. Everyone has diff numbers, but what makes them go up or down...
im curious to know how you started your business. I want to know how you were able to start with years of experience right off the get go. everyone starts somewhere and if you started at the top, you are the 6th type, business was handed to them and doesnt have to work for the reputation. And I bet you have undercut competitors whenever you have had the chance.
the only type i agree with you on is the out of towner
I guess you'll have to keep guessing Jim..
I was thinking the same thing. No one is born an expert. You have to start somewhere. Even Spray Jones was new to the business many years ago. I think the point here is it takes a fair amount of training and experience, and you don't want your house to be their school.
@@jfbeam Apprentice, so that when you go on your own your company may be new but your knowledge and experience isn't.
@@SprayJones, I'm glad you answered the question, although a month later because that was just a really bad answer.
Well I don't know there Jones' I have to disagree with you on some of this content . I'm a drywaller who has added spray foam to our business. And we were easily able to replace the SF guy doing our project were are on . Our knowledge of the building helped us pass all our inspection more than twice a month during this three tower 320 plus unit project . Our competition failed way more than once and that doesn't count for all the work I've had to rip apart because they recked steel framing every where because framing isn't there problem.
Gord you are fine. This is to get people thinking, talking and looking into things and not taking everything that comes along at face value.
Makes the bad guys easier to spot and harder to hide.
I did hire a qualified foamer and mech to work with me for the first two months . And I don't do Reno work I stick to what I know new construction I work with all the trades and sup to ensure foam is applied when needed not perfect but good relusts so far . I've had to repair framing I messed up you really have to brace up steel stud and do setting shots wilth the gun or it will bend fast. No bad foam though and I fixed my work my cost
@@gordongoodkey4118 You are a good man and who we want in the industry.
I like to poke my finger in the eye of the jerks that need to go.
Keep up the good work.
Channel is growing and looking to do a pod cast in 2021 for SPF installers to help them.
I do park my machine it scares the hell out of me what I do is bleed it or cycle it to make sure it doesn't clog from sitting and I clean guns out to spotless condition . Got two guns and lots of parts . On a side note someone stole my goodie box with all my chambers and parts little tools cost me 1500$ to replace had to spray for a whole day with no way of maintaining the gun .it ran great got so lucky
That pod cast would be a great thing to do very generous man it is hard to find good training resource
You forgot the ones that have adds in the paper that claim 90 or 75 percent off with a state rebate! They have a brand new truck they got with government money pulling a spray rig that doesn't look like it should be on the road!
That's for sure! Or rich daddy's money they don't have to pay back. Will move onto something else when they realize this is real work.
Ha This video taught me a lot, about Spray Jones.
Is there any type of preparation required such as adding a vapor barrier in a crawlspace prior to doing the spray foam?
Have you ever found any information on properly spray foaming a crawl space.?
👍👍
These home owners and builders are looking for the cheapest deals . With the new price increase and the chemical shortage . It's hard to compete. I've been spraying 16 of my 22 years in foam .hey matt Morin cheers bro
Yes. We sell ourselves too cheap to begin with. The industry laughs at us...
@@SprayJones absolutely mike I'm with you. Try selling at 1.20 per inch per sqft and your going against .80 per bdft
@@keithibbitson5519 That is where education and quality come in. It can be impossible some times, so what I have done is sought out people that NEED the expertise and not the low price. It takes effort but it is so worth it.
@@SprayJones right on man . You should join our Facebook community. 10.5k members worldwide on spray foam worldwide and 700 members on spray foam canada.
@@keithibbitson5519 Thanks for the invite but I don't like facebook and I don't have time to look at another media outlet. YT is good for now. I even quit doing stuff on IG.
Are the fumes safe?
Not when we are spraying. This why we wear PPE like other products such as paint, varnish, stains, plastics. Once installed and cured it is fine like you coffee table.
Watch the "fire, smoke, health and safety playlist" there is info on smells there.
We bid one at 14k a few hundred bucks under some other bids. We didn't get it because somebody did it for 5500 bucks. $5500 wouldn't even cover the cost of the foam on that job. Those guys are the worst
Yes I agree! Feel ya!
We get guys like that around here to. I can’t wait for them to go out of business.
This product is not diy or idiot proof if it was i would of already sprayed but i got enough sense to know it needs an experienced professional
Yup.
So how does the new guy get experience? Be a slave to another company and never get ahead? Everyone that has experience at one time didn’t have experience.
Apprentice like in welding, auto mechanics, machining. Once you go out on your own you are a new business but not new to the craft, your skills are established...
Use your head and don't bother me with this tripe.
Always get 3 quotes . I always say to my clients to get other quotes from a few locals.
I see you spray over cables, in the }UK this is against the electrical and building codes , as it is said the cables could overheat because of the insulation, not allowing any cooling requiring bigger cable or sheathing2. What is the position there And what fire retarding qualities does it have. What make do you use for closed cell foam?
One of the most tested areas of install is electrical wiring. There are so many thorough analysis done on wiring, with very credible agencies showing that it completely safe and allowable. All codes are written to allow SPF over wiring, we don't give it a second thought.
So I wonder how physics is so different on our continent compared to yours.
@@SprayJones 220 volt household and 415volt 3 phase industrial power for plant.
@@GWAYGWAY1 The wire in conduit solves the issue. We have sprayed many commercial and agricultural buildings that have power requirements similar to that. The wiring is always in either armored cable or metal conduit. The foam goes over that.
If your cables start melting, I would blame the technician instead of the foam-guy 😉🥳
@@kevinguns7386 Here is the first intelligent response in a long time.
I have info on wiring and SPF, just waiting to do a video on that subject.
Do you feel that with the proper certificate but with no actual spray hours under my belt, I would not fall under your 5 kinds of insulators, lol?
Of course.
If you worked for me you wouldn't be on your own for 1.5 years.
This basically sounds like a good and bad video. See everyone is a newbie once in life , doesn’t mean your gonna get screwed. Means they need to backup the new guy problem with insurance proof, references and always get quotes and invoices. I’m about cash but you still have to have all the rest. You might want to tell them to not be to afraid if the new guy has insurance and does things right. Nobody wants to lose business to some one else but competition keeps prices right and choice is good.
Thanks for watching.
I think these "types" can pretty much be applied to all contractors. If you do your homework enough to hold a basic conversation about the task at hand, you'll turn most contractors away.
Sounds like your don't want no competition
Only good ones. The bad ones make life rough.
Them poor studs...
So...how does one start a business if new guys should be last resort. Way to be on your industry's side
You apprentice so that the company name is new but the knowledge isn't.
Less emotion and more brains...
@@SprayJones makes sense
What happens when the company wants to have you sign a Non compete agreement for fear of taking company secrets to influence future business ventures?
@@kylehorner2896 those actually exist?? Never sign that shit!
Don't hire us but we work you so we make you rich while we eat bologna
You can be an expert in more than one area.
While that is true, this is construction. There is NO shortage of the ole "oh, I can do that" types, or the ones who just straight up LIE and preTEND to be an expert. People need to be very cautious as the number of delusional people far outnumber the ones who are HONEST about what they know, are proficient at, and can do well.
Think it should be a plactick on gravel than spray , not directly on gravel.
I agree about the vapor barrier plastic .
@@deerhunter7482 I was not concerned by vapor barier but rather not mixing foam with gravel and demishing its draning capacity.Thanks for reply.
Won't stick, won't stay flat, won't work at all, will only lift and be a disaster...ask how I know..
@@SprayJones We know you know.Thanks for reply.
Spray Jones why don't you put plastic on top of the foam before the pour .
most dangerous ..someone who foams at the mouth .
We do all the work but us we're stupid and you are not I guess that's why we make more on a side job than you pay us all week and we use your material 😂
Been watching a ton of your video and lost a lot of respect watching this one. If you have to tear others down to shine, than your not that bright.
Then bugger off.
@@SprayJones no thanks. I’ll keep acquiring the useful information. I’m just not interested in your anecdotal and broad stroked opinion of anyone new to an industry.
@@groshed9928 He’s the type that got into the industry early and whines about the industry becoming saturated and having to actually compete on price. But of course he doesn’t put that type in the video!
👍👍