I remember seeing an old ad for this computer during a TH-cam dive like 10 years ago and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Awesome to see how it worked in practice
Try upgrading x86 CPU with proper 486 or AMD 586, would be interesting to see performance improvement. Also games might be limited by poor video system performance, would like to see it's benchmark.
Superb vid. I guess internally the DOS cards are a bit all over the place but it is a lot tidier than the 610/6100's solution when its all closed up. I didn't know it was just the DOS models with the dedicated AV socket, although there is something visually identical on a standard 6200's logic board. And those eject shortcuts... what a shame they are only for the PC side, thats a super handy idea. Maybe theres an extension out there that can add it... It would be really cool to see some direct comparisons of identical games running on the Mac and PC sides to see how they compare performance wise, that DOOM II footage looked to be smoother than the Mac port running on my 630.
I LUSTED after this model as a kid. We were a Mac household and all of my friends had PCs, so I could never join in on the fun of games, the last days of BBS's or the early days of NES and SNES emulators. If I had this, I could have at least played MegaRace, Scorched Earth and Commander Keen, and been able to take advantage of all those PC demo disk compilations they used to sell in the grocery stores at the time!
Another good video! These old compatibility cards are always cool to see and learn about, even if their performance sometimes lags behind a standalone PC. I did notice that at the start of Doom, the screen didn't seem very well lit, and it was hard to make out some details, but I know that it's difficult to make a camera focus on a CRT perfectly, so that may not be something that can be easily improved...
I had the model LGR showed until I sold it to a collector that kept pestering me about it. The only Mac from that era I've owned, System 7-9 are pretty solid operating systems IMO. For most people I would say OSX/MacOS is the best operating system out there. It's a shame it's platform restricted, but one could argue that's why it's so efficient. I'm not a fan of Apple hardware or wasn't at least until the M1 shift (ARM desktop fanboy). I just wish the company that was putting out great performing ARM hardware for desktop was one that would make a machine with sodimm slots for ram, nvme slot(s) for storage, and possibly a PCIe slot or two for expansion. My RockPi4 has an NVME slot and RockPro64 has a PCIe slot (albeit 4x, but that's better than nothing), both SBC's I actively program with on the actual hardware using FreeBSD.
TH-cam suggested this video to me, and after watching it I have to say thank you to TH-cam for suggesting it! Great video, I'll subscribe now and see what else there is. Regarding WHY the card plugs into the 68040 socket, I'd guess that it was easier for the engineers to do it this way and have full read/write access to the 68040 CPU bus, rather than needing to interface using the possibly slower NuBus expansion system. It's certainly a very interesting design.
I must correct myself, I just looked it up, this model Mac uses a PDS (Processor Direct Slot) expansion slot, not NuBus. Also, I see people have mentioned trying a faster 486 CPU. This would be an interesting experiment, BUT, given the 68040 CPU that runs the whole show is on a 33MHz CPU bus AND the 486 ALSO runs on a 33MHz bus (which is then clock doubled within the 486 to 66MHz), I wonder if the 486 simply runs off the same timing system as the 68040. That would make it MUCH easier to design and cheaper to manufacture as well. If this is the case, perhaps a 486DX4 100MHz may work (clock tripled from the 33.3MHz, so technically a 99.9MHz internal clock speed, just like the DX2 is technically a 66.6MHz), and maybe even the "fastest 486" (the Am5x86) may work - it runs at 4x 33.3MHz, but works as a drop-in replacement for a DX2 66MHz 486. Other 486 CPUs, such as the 486DX2 50MHz, may not work, as they work on a 25 (times 2) CPU bus.
@@OddObsolete Thank you. Or, after looking at that huge wall of text, I wouldn't blame anyone for assuming I was on something when I wrote that, haha. Great video, and good luck with what you do with this machine in the future.
Stopped by because I just bought one of these in a flea market and I know very little about them. You just bumped my knowledge up a ton and I am looking forward to giving this a rig a run after I give it a good cleaning like you showed. Do these use an Apple bus keyboard and mouse or will a standard IBM type work? Appreciate the video!
Good memories, I had a PowerPC Performa 6360AV in the late 90s which used the same chassis as this machine. The TV tuner and Video capture/input capabilities, I kept it right into the mid 00's to use as a video monitor/TV. I notice on the back of this there is the blanking plate where the tuner card would have been, I wonder if the Performa 630 ever actually came with the TV tuner and/or video capture card
I think the TV Tuner and AV inputs (composite) may have been separate from each other. Would be interesting to see if the 630 could be upgraded with that at the same time as the dos card. It was great to use alongside games consoles, like Sega and original PlayStation, there was an Apple monitor with stereo speakers vertically on either side, it really was a pretty sweet setup.
Yes the 630 had a TV card option - you'll notice the black IR window on the front of the case. The 6360 was the last to use that chassis and had a PCI slot if I remember correctly. I had a 5320CD which came with 28.8 modem, MPEG decoder card and TV Tuner card.
This is one of the reasons i love old computers so much. Perfoma 630 DOS may not be the best computer in the line, it's a very compact hybrid system that holds a 68K & x86 on a daughterboard.
I recently purchased a 640CD DOS Compatible which is almost exactly like the 630. I’m having an image display issue on the PC side though. On the PC side I don’t think I’m getting red at all. Everything has a blue/green tint. Even the text on DOS is blue. The original HDD was toast so I am using a CF card with adapter. Colors on the Mac side are fine. I don’t have a crt monitor. I’m using a lcd with a VGA adapter. I’ve tried different dip switch settings and still no luck. My guess at this point is there is an issue with the graphics chip on the DOS card itself. I’m going to take the computer apart soon. The power supply needs to be rebuilt. Though I don’t want to bother if I can’t get the DOS card to function correctly.
Had that same issue as well, it was the video connector from the DOS card to the Mac logic board that wasn’t making proper contact. Clean it with some IPA and it should be fine!
Oh I love these Apple Chimeras ;) I have two of them too: the Performa 630 DOS Compatible & the 6100/66 with it's 486 card too ;) very interesting concept these machines follow
Great video! Wow -- I wish I had known about this (and could have afforded it) back in the day. I had to work with both Mac and PCs but could only afford one so the PC was what I got. :-(
A pretty neat machine for the time, I remember being put off because of the price since Apple systems seemed to be priced two to four times as high as an equivelent PC.
This was my first real computer, my dad had it before me :) With Telia dial-up which came in a huge box! I still have the computer but the PSU is dead…
Hello. Can you do some retro games on a raspberry pi. I always liked the small form factor of those machines and that you can play those old games on it, I hope that you can do that. Happy new year.
@@OddObsolete good luck, I must admit I haven't seen one for years. Really interesting computer that is though would love to see how far it could be pushed... :)
The issue you had with Doom had to do with the Cyrix processor on the PC board, those chips were extremely poor performers with that game in particular
Yeah, it should be possible to put in a 100mhz DX4 overdrive, and I’m on the lookout for one of those. Maximum memory for the DOS card is 32mb according to Apple, which is what’s currently in there.
@@OddObsolete The whole automatic guard they have here flags everything and most of the times you get claims from rather dubious parties, many of the times they are not the copyright holder but they still try to get money from it. Just fight back, most of the time they just fold.
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Old hard drive sounds like a popcorn machine
These DOS Compatible macs are really interesting machines. People were trying so much unique stuff back then!
I remember seeing an old ad for this computer during a TH-cam dive like 10 years ago and I thought it was the coolest thing ever. Awesome to see how it worked in practice
Nice to see how this hybridization with the Dos cards worked back then! Thanks!
Also, I'd love to see the Power PC-TV as well! ;-)
Good idea showing Second Reality. It really shows how impressive it was after seeing how Doom ran.
Try upgrading x86 CPU with proper 486 or AMD 586, would be interesting to see performance improvement. Also games might be limited by poor video system performance, would like to see it's benchmark.
That would indeed be interesting! I’ll try it if I can get my hands on an appropriate CPU.
Superb vid. I guess internally the DOS cards are a bit all over the place but it is a lot tidier than the 610/6100's solution when its all closed up. I didn't know it was just the DOS models with the dedicated AV socket, although there is something visually identical on a standard 6200's logic board. And those eject shortcuts... what a shame they are only for the PC side, thats a super handy idea. Maybe theres an extension out there that can add it...
It would be really cool to see some direct comparisons of identical games running on the Mac and PC sides to see how they compare performance wise, that DOOM II footage looked to be smoother than the Mac port running on my 630.
This is an other great video and i like it very much!
I LUSTED after this model as a kid. We were a Mac household and all of my friends had PCs, so I could never join in on the fun of games, the last days of BBS's or the early days of NES and SNES emulators. If I had this, I could have at least played MegaRace, Scorched Earth and Commander Keen, and been able to take advantage of all those PC demo disk compilations they used to sell in the grocery stores at the time!
another excellent video! I had no idea such a well integrated retr o mac/pc solution existed
Another good video! These old compatibility cards are always cool to see and learn about, even if their performance sometimes lags behind a standalone PC. I did notice that at the start of Doom, the screen didn't seem very well lit, and it was hard to make out some details, but I know that it's difficult to make a camera focus on a CRT perfectly, so that may not be something that can be easily improved...
clipboard integration is awesome
Wow, what a cool little system. I love all the hybrid hardware setups like this and DOS compatibility cards
I know my childhood self would have screamed for this machine as I was already interested in computers really early on.
I had the model LGR showed until I sold it to a collector that kept pestering me about it. The only Mac from that era I've owned, System 7-9 are pretty solid operating systems IMO. For most people I would say OSX/MacOS is the best operating system out there.
It's a shame it's platform restricted, but one could argue that's why it's so efficient. I'm not a fan of Apple hardware or wasn't at least until the M1 shift (ARM desktop fanboy). I just wish the company that was putting out great performing ARM hardware for desktop was one that would make a machine with sodimm slots for ram, nvme slot(s) for storage, and possibly a PCIe slot or two for expansion. My RockPi4 has an NVME slot and RockPro64 has a PCIe slot (albeit 4x, but that's better than nothing), both SBC's I actively program with on the actual hardware using FreeBSD.
TH-cam suggested this video to me, and after watching it I have to say thank you to TH-cam for suggesting it! Great video, I'll subscribe now and see what else there is.
Regarding WHY the card plugs into the 68040 socket, I'd guess that it was easier for the engineers to do it this way and have full read/write access to the 68040 CPU bus, rather than needing to interface using the possibly slower NuBus expansion system. It's certainly a very interesting design.
I must correct myself, I just looked it up, this model Mac uses a PDS (Processor Direct Slot) expansion slot, not NuBus.
Also, I see people have mentioned trying a faster 486 CPU. This would be an interesting experiment, BUT, given the 68040 CPU that runs the whole show is on a 33MHz CPU bus AND the 486 ALSO runs on a 33MHz bus (which is then clock doubled within the 486 to 66MHz), I wonder if the 486 simply runs off the same timing system as the 68040. That would make it MUCH easier to design and cheaper to manufacture as well. If this is the case, perhaps a 486DX4 100MHz may work (clock tripled from the 33.3MHz, so technically a 99.9MHz internal clock speed, just like the DX2 is technically a 66.6MHz), and maybe even the "fastest 486" (the Am5x86) may work - it runs at 4x 33.3MHz, but works as a drop-in replacement for a DX2 66MHz 486. Other 486 CPUs, such as the 486DX2 50MHz, may not work, as they work on a 25 (times 2) CPU bus.
I think you’re on to something!
@@OddObsolete Thank you. Or, after looking at that huge wall of text, I wouldn't blame anyone for assuming I was on something when I wrote that, haha. Great video, and good luck with what you do with this machine in the future.
You sir, make nice videos. I like the editing alot. Great job!
Pretzel Logic was a 1970s Steely Dan album, so likely an homage.
Great job with this video!
Very nice video, keep up the good work, subscribed
Stopped by because I just bought one of these in a flea market and I know very little about them. You just bumped my knowledge up a ton and I am looking forward to giving this a rig a run after I give it a good cleaning like you showed. Do these use an Apple bus keyboard and mouse or will a standard IBM type work? Appreciate the video!
Wow, congrats on a great find!
Only ADB unfortunately, but you’ve probably worked that out by now :)
Best of luck with the machine, and have fun!
Good memories, I had a PowerPC Performa 6360AV in the late 90s which used the same chassis as this machine. The TV tuner and Video capture/input capabilities, I kept it right into the mid 00's to use as a video monitor/TV. I notice on the back of this there is the blanking plate where the tuner card would have been, I wonder if the Performa 630 ever actually came with the TV tuner and/or video capture card
The 630 can indeed have a TV card, there’s a slot for it on the logic board.
I think the TV Tuner and AV inputs (composite) may have been separate from each other. Would be interesting to see if the 630 could be upgraded with that at the same time as the dos card. It was great to use alongside games consoles, like Sega and original PlayStation, there was an Apple monitor with stereo speakers vertically on either side, it really was a pretty sweet setup.
Yes the 630 had a TV card option - you'll notice the black IR window on the front of the case. The 6360 was the last to use that chassis and had a PCI slot if I remember correctly. I had a 5320CD which came with 28.8 modem, MPEG decoder card and TV Tuner card.
This is one of the reasons i love old computers so much. Perfoma 630 DOS may not be the best computer in the line, it's a very compact hybrid system that holds a 68K & x86 on a daughterboard.
I recently purchased a 640CD DOS Compatible which is almost exactly like the 630. I’m having an image display issue on the PC side though. On the PC side I don’t think I’m getting red at all. Everything has a blue/green tint. Even the text on DOS is blue. The original HDD was toast so I am using a CF card with adapter. Colors on the Mac side are fine. I don’t have a crt monitor. I’m using a lcd with a VGA adapter. I’ve tried different dip switch settings and still no luck. My guess at this point is there is an issue with the graphics chip on the DOS card itself. I’m going to take the computer apart soon. The power supply needs to be rebuilt. Though I don’t want to bother if I can’t get the DOS card to function correctly.
Had that same issue as well, it was the video connector from the DOS card to the Mac logic board that wasn’t making proper contact. Clean it with some IPA and it should be fine!
@@OddObsolete good to know! I’m going to pull the logic board now
@@OddObsolete it worked!!! Thanks!!!
Oh I love these Apple Chimeras ;) I have two of them too: the Performa 630 DOS Compatible & the 6100/66 with it's 486 card too ;) very interesting concept these machines follow
Great video! Wow -- I wish I had known about this (and could have afforded it) back in the day. I had to work with both Mac and PCs but could only afford one so the PC was what I got. :-(
A pretty neat machine for the time, I remember being put off because of the price since Apple systems seemed to be priced two to four times as high as an equivelent PC.
This was my first real computer, my dad had it before me :) With Telia dial-up which came in a huge box! I still have the computer but the PSU is dead…
Hello. Can you do some retro games on a raspberry pi. I always liked the small form factor of those machines and that you can play those old games on it, I hope that you can do that. Happy new year.
I have a raspberry pi 4 laying around, and I do have some ideas for it. So a video involving it will probably pop up later this year. Happy new year!
Awesome 👍👍
Still able to find those games and download onto floppy disk?
That CPU looks socketed, any mileage in trying to fit an Overdrive processor in place of the DX2?
I’ll try if I can get my hands on one.
@@OddObsolete good luck, I must admit I haven't seen one for years.
Really interesting computer that is though would love to see how far it could be pushed... :)
The issue you had with Doom had to do with the Cyrix processor on the PC board, those chips were extremely poor performers with that game in particular
So I’ve heard. Recently came over a intel 486dx2, so I’m gonna try swapping it out and doing some benchmarks. For science!
can you upgrade the x86 CPU and RAM ? And if can what are the max available upgrades ?
Yeah, it should be possible to put in a 100mhz DX4 overdrive, and I’m on the lookout for one of those.
Maximum memory for the DOS card is 32mb according to Apple, which is what’s currently in there.
@@OddObsolete Anything to get rid of that Cyrix processor but it didn't look like an overdrive chip will fit on that board sandwich
Vart i Sverige bor du?😍
Norrtälje!
Second Reality copyright claim? Sounds super far fetched, the scene isn't known to be that lame :D
Yeah. It’s actually in the public domain as far as I know, but the automated copyright check still blocked it for some reason.
@@OddObsolete The whole automatic guard they have here flags everything and most of the times you get claims from rather dubious parties, many of the times they are not the copyright holder but they still try to get money from it. Just fight back, most of the time they just fold.