My father is an 18th century guy. I grew up watching this get done and this guy does a great job. Thank you for taking the time. Great Walk through. My veneer hammer is a bit more.... traditional hah.
Hello thee Frank, If you don't mind me pointing out that the glue is meant to be melted directly in the the copper "sleeve" of your electric pot. The reason why it's copper is because this material is a very powerful disinfectant. The glue being animal based (mainly the gelatinous extract of bovine bones) the glue can "go off"- in other words you can get mould on it. Not with copper. In our old traditional cabinet workshops these glue pots were on the go all day long (they were very large- up to three litres here in Europe). It was the apprentices' job to see that the the water- they weren't electric- didn't evaporate, therefore burning the glue. I veneered miles of pieces of furniture- flat and curved. However, when I moved to Paris from England I was very glad to discover the veneer press! The curved work was done with sand bags. I'm only @ 4:12 so I better watch the rest of your demonstration. Thank you for sharing. Greetings from France.
Hello musamor and thanks for watching and commenting. I am working on small batches for individual projects, 6-8 oz. Even if I go a second day, I can let the jar cool to room temp, put a lid on it and use it day 2. I just dispose of the last oz or 2 when I am finished. But, I can imagine that in a production environment, like you worked in, many more factors come into consideration. Must have been a wonderful experience for you working in a traditional cabinet shop like that, doing fine work with veneer.
very nice work frank. i've seen this method achieved using a hot iron, mostly by brits, and without an iron like you did. ive tried both and being a beginner, I'm still working out what works best. my first try on a 4 way bookmatch did not come out perfectly but a 2 way bookmatch comes out fine. great video and looking forward to seeing more
Douglas Moulder Thanks Doug. Glad you found it helpful. You got skills, my friend, I'm sure you will nail the process yourself. Saw on Twitter you got some glue cookin!
Glad I found this video. Very well explained. I learned about hammer veneering and the science literally behind shower curtains lol. Beautiful end result 👍
Thanks for watching. I was going to do a video on shower curtains and explain how they worked with hammer veneering, but switched at the last minute! 😊
Brilliant! I have been searching for a hide glue video that doesn't involve clamping as I want to successfully veneer curves and using pva has been slightly hit and miss. The shower curtain explanation was bang on the money.Thankyou
Plywood is constructed with alternating layers laid up 90° from each other. I was always taught that when using plywood as a substrate, you must follow that pattern when applying the face veneer. When solid wood is the substrate, veneer should parallel the grain, because it moves effectively as one piece. I once tested that out, applying veneer parallel to the last surface of a piece of plywood, as is shown here. It took over a year, but sure enough the veneer checked, very badly over time.
That was very interesting and informative. Never seen it done before. Seems like it should be called squeegee veneering. Nice video, thanks for sharing!
The technique of joining the two bookmatched sections was great to watch. I wonder how much longer it would take to cut the sides off neatly - it looks as if your 3/8" will be barely enough in the bottom left corner where the veneer has torn along the edge....
Thanks for the video it's very informative, just wondered wether hammer veneering works with thicker home cut veneers? Also is it possible to prejoin bookmatched pieces with veneer tape or does this not work with the hot glue? Thanks again Josh
Hi Josh, Thanks for watching and I appreciate your comment. Hammer veneering and hide glue was around for many centuries before commercial veneer - cut or sliced with production machines - was available. Back then, all the veneers were cut by hand and thicker than the veneer we can buy today. So you might say that hammer veneering was invented for thicker, shop sawn veneer. Go for it! As for gluing up taped, rejoined veneers and using the hammer veneering technique, I’ll have to punt on this one. Perhaps another viewer has some experience with this. I have not gone that route. When I have a book match I use the process in this video. When I have a multi-piece veneer assembly, like a tabletop, I hammer the pieces in individually. You can get an idea of that process on my Walnut Table video - it’s in the later part of that video. When I have multiple, smaller pieces taped up - like in an inlay patera for a Federal table leg, I use liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue!) and do a simple cold press with a cork-padded caul and a clamp(s.) Good luck with your veneering and furniture making! Frank
Thank for the video; It’s great. I’m trying to learn how to do veneering with a pattern. I’m basically using 8x8 inch veneer squares placed around a veneer pattern that resembles a plus sign. The pattern is for a coffee table that is 30x40 inches. I'm having difficulty getting clean cuts across grain. I’ve tried taping and also using your technique of overlapping and cutting. It can't get a clean joint. Also, how much scraping is necessary? How do you remove excess glue that has dried in the veneer surface? Scraping has issues with leaving scratch mark. Do you have any move videos that cover the issued I mentioned? Thanks for your help
Rick Winkelman thanks for the comment. Lot of questions, but that’s OK. I’ll try to address them. two things for clean cuts across the grain and cuts with the grain than don’t wander. First, get a veneer saw and learn to sharpen and use it. The teeth are only beveled on one side so it follows your straight edge well. Second, for cuts like I did in this video, get yourself a surgical scalpel and some disposable blades. Super fine quality and strong rigid blades help make good cuts. When you use one the difference between a scalpel and a razor knife will be evident immediately. With either tool, don’t try to muscle the cut. Take a few passes. Make sure you are concentrating, especially on the first pass. Practice. Excess hide glue isn’t really a problem. So I put glue on the show surface as I describe in the video. If you look closely, you can see the veneer starting to curl before I glue the second, show, side. That’s because one side is expanding much faster than the other from the warm moisture. It balances and flattens immediately, when the second side gets glue. When dry, it scrapes away nicely with a card scraper. But you have to learn and practice sharpening and using a card scraper. You scrape until the glue shavings become mostly wood shavings. Any glue left in the grain is not a problem as hide glue takes finish just like the wood fibers and does not leave the flat shiny spots that yellow or white glue does. Very forgiving that way. And no, scraping does not leave scratches if done properly. So get yourself a scalpel (Amazon, for one place,) research sharpening and using a veneer saw and research sharpening and using a card scraper. Your world will change. As for gluing down an assembled top with lots of pieces, taped up,with veneer,tape on the show side, I would use either a cold press technique (a call and clamping) or a vacuum press. When you’re done, it’s back to the card scraper to remove the tape and any glue that bled through under the pressure. Good luck with the project. Remember, this stuff isn’t hard. But it does take some learning and practice. Did I mention practice? :)
@@frankvucolo6249 Hi Frank. I did try a better blade. It makes a difference. I tried another thing, I got a pair of high grade scissors. The work especially well crosscutting with mahogany veneer. I can literally shave 1/64. I'm experimenting with cutting overlapped pieces as i add on to my pattern. The most challenging part is getting/keeping a clean surface after the glue up. I end up doing a lot of scraping to get all the glue off. that leaves visible mark on the veneer. I keep my scrapers sharp but that's not enough. Im not ready to give up and go for vacuum bag yet. Are pattern veneers done using hammer/hot-hide glue?
And I thought you were going to hammer on it like Brass or copper to give a figured and textured feel. With that ill just go hyde! What was I thinking? Project and instructions were perfect i learned somthing. Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks.
I think this is one of the best veneering video I have watched so far. I liked the fact that you explained in details the technique of applying the veneer and using the hammer (from center to edge - I see other videos where they start from the edges...). Also, I see videos where people only apply veneer on one side of the wood panel. The one thing that would have been good to add (to the video) is to show how to recognize the front and back of the veneer (by bending the veneer to see which side is front or back - I just learned that from a different video). I have a question in regard to the curing time... Did you apply any kind of weight to the veneer while it was drying or just let it sit as is? Also, what type of veneer did you apply to the back of the panel? I didn't catch the name... Thanks!
ibaber Thank you. I’m glad you found it useful. The face veneers are book matched - think of turning the page of a book. So that means that one “page” shows the front of the veneer and the other shows the back. In other words, with book matching, the show faces will be opposite by definition. In many cases, however, it is important that the same face of the veneer is on the show side. An example would be when edge joining several pieces for a table top. The reason is not so much that there is a top or bottom side to the veneer, the reason is that the fibers in the veneer will angle to the surface differently. That means they will reflect light differently and appear lighter and darker, relative to each other, as you view the piece. You will hear that referred to as “chatoyance.” A way to think about it is to visualize two sets of Venetian blinds next to each other. Close the left blinds tilted up and the blinds on the right tilted down. That inconsistency would be quite obvious, compared to both being closed in the same direction. There is no need to apply weight while the glue is curing. Two reasons. First: because we removed all the air between the veneer and the substrate, and because the glue is preventing it from getting back in, the weight of the atmosphere is forcing the veneer to the substrate (I’d have to look it up, but I think it’s like 11Lbs per Sq. inch - or about 1500lbs per Sq. ft. - whatever the number, it’s considerable.) The second reason is that the hide glue shrinks as it cures. So it, too, is pulling the veneer to the substrate. Want a visual on the weight of the atmosphere? Fill one of those flimsy water bottles half way with hot tap water and close the lid tight. Put it in the refrigerator for an hour. As the water and air shrink, while they cool, the atmosphere will crush the bottle. The veneer on the back of the panel is maple. Doesn’t much matter what species you use, as long as it is roughly the same thickness. Good questions, ibaber!
@@frankvucolo6249 Thank you very much for your reply! I will have to try the process and let you know if I was able to do it correctly. Maybe start on a small small piece of wood to see how it turns out. Do you have also other videos on including a veneer inlay? Again, thank you for replying to my questions. It was very useful.
Grnhrnww Gp I explained it a couple times, so not sure if you are being funny. But in case it is not clear... You want the veneer to absorb moisture evenly and expand evenly on both sides so it lays flat and stays put as you hammer it down. Notice the maple piece I did first. Before I add glue to the show side, you can see it curling. Once the glue is applied, it flattens out and lays down nicely. Secondly, the glue on the show side allows the hammer to glide smoothly as you work the piece.
Great video. I just got some bookmatch redwood burl veneer for my next project. I had never heard of hammer veneering and have never used hide glue. Two questions for you. Where can you find a veneer hammer, and I presume you have to remove the hide glue from the face before finishing. How do you remove the hide glue from the face? Thanks!
Bland McCartha hi Bland. The veneer hammer I’m using in the video is available from Lee Valley. Tools for Working Wood also sells one. There may be others out there, too. But both of those places are fine establishments. Excess glue on the show side comes off with a card scraper, as shown in the video. Hide glue is very finish friendly, so small traces left behind are of no consequence.
Interesting seam technique. I have no experience with hide glue. Can you still stain the veneer after it has been soaked in the glue? Doesn't seem like you'd be able to.
Thank you. I think that if you are moving toward veneer, the need to stain doesn’t come up. At least not for me. If you want a walnut finish, use walnut, cherry, use cherry, etc. you can alter the tone of the wood with your topcoat. Garnet shellac will look darker than amber or blonde. Or you can use a glaze, even a wax with color. These are far more subtle options compared to staining. All that said, hide glue plays very nicely with top coats, unlike white or yellow glue.
Thank you so much for this informative video. It's got me feeling inspired. Quick question for you. Would this method be suitable for veneering a 10" radius with raw quarter sawn oak? Also what would you recommend for thickness of veneer? I'm making the veneer myself;).
Great question, and the answer is yes. That said, I have not personally done a radius of that size. I have done a radius of around 18” and larger (think bow front tables.) so the challenge would be to get good enough adhesion on the first part as you wrap the substrate and before the glue on the rest of the surface dries. You may have to refresh/reheat the glue a couple of times as you work around to re-liquify it (just brush on more hot glue like I did when I refreshed the seam.) This method was around since the time when all veneers had to be cut by hand. So thick veneer is no problem. That said, thicker veneer will have more spring back as you wrap your substrate and will be harder to get down. I’d shoot for no more than 1/32” if you can. If you can get some commercially available quarter sawn oak veneer, it would be around 1/50” and might be your best option. Don’t know how much you need, but it would be fairly inexpensive. Hope this is helpful. Good luck with your project!
Hello Robert. Thanks for watching. That is just a simple card scraper. Essentially a piece of flat steel (about the thickness of a saw blade) with the long edges jointed and honed. You then use a burnisher - usually a hardened steel rod - to roll a burr on the edges.
Hi Andrew. Thanks for watching. That veneer hammer was sold by Lee Valley Tools. I have had it for many years and, unfortunately, it appears they no longer sell it. You may be able to find one on the used market as Lee Valley or Veritas Veneer hammer.
@@frankvucolo6249 Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I bought a new one with a wood handle, but after seeing your video I can see how metal would be nice. C'est la vie
Man this is a intense process to apply veneer, does this produce duffrent results then using contact cement or spray adhesive? Or is this just an old style of applying veneer. Also, why are some against using spary adhesive. Ive used super 90 several times and the veneer still is flawless after a long time, is there a downside unseen yet to using spray adhesive?
Hi Dean and thanks for watching. Veneer has to be pressed to the substrate to get it flat and tight to the surface. As such, it has to slip and slide a tiny amount as it is being pressed. Contact cement and spray adhesive tack right away when the two surfaces meet. Contact cement works well with plastic laminates (Formica) because it is flat and rigid and can be rolled for a tight even bond. The hammer veneer technique has been around for centuries. The combination of the glue’s properties, the hammer and atmospheric pressure combine to make it work. Other liquid glues can be used for veneer, but you will need some kind of press to hold the surfaces tight until the liquid glue tacks and sets. This could be a formal press, a couple,of flat platens clamped on or a vacuum press, the later being a very popular means, especially for curved surfaces. Liquid hide glue, regular white/yellow glue or glues specially designed for veneering can be used. An alternative technique, that I have seen but not used, is to coat the substrate and veneer with yellow glue. Let it dry, then iron it down to the substrate. The iron liquifies the glue temporarily, giving you the flattening, slipping effect you need, then tacks fast enough to hold it there. You can find an article in Fine Woodworking on this by Mario Rodriguez from years back if you search (pretty sure I have an article in that same issue on table saw outfeed - we were both much younger!) Of course all this goes out the window when you get into commercial and industrial techniques with big, specialty equipment and presses and specially manufactured backed veneers. But for small and home shop, you’re going to have to either hammer it, mechanically press it, vacuum press it or iron it. If anyone else out there has had success with contact cement or spray adhesive on regular, thin wood veneer, please share.
@@frankvucolo6249 also is the hide bonder water based? What ive found that with water based contact cements, that stuff expanded some of my venners almost 3/8th of an inch in some cases which completeky derailed my whole project and i had to start over from nothing, it was just a learning curve i had to go through.
@@deanmilken3633 Are you watching the right video, Dean? :) Ya gotta pay attention, brother. Maybe you’re just messing with me. So I’ll respond. Water, yes, as covered in the opening, mixing portion. But the water doesn’t bond, it evaporates off as the glue cures. What does the bonding are the collagen proteins which, in a former life, bound animal connective tissues - skin, bone, tendon. (This is why, back in the day, when a horse was being put down it was said to be going to the glue factory.” And yes, water makes the veneer expand. I mention that frequently. Look at around 10:00. I have applied glue to one side and it has expanded, causing the veneer to curl to the dry side. As I apply glue to the second side, that side expands and the veneer flattens out. Look in the upper left of the screen as the curl disappears.
@@frankvucolo6249 ahh ok, i looked at the 10:00 mark closer and see it curl slightly. I wasent joking, sometimes when i wake up in the am im slow and stupid for the first hour untill i get going. Just wondering, because ive used certain bonders that expanded the venner too much, and other bonders that expanded the venner only slightly and it didnt affect my project process. Neat process, in the future im going to try this and see how well the results are. This process seems more frogiving and gives you some working time to move the piece around which i need on certain projects. Im deff. Going to try this out, thank you
... Такие щелюги на стяжке ! ...( И , если уж так много говорить , претендуя на глубокие знания ....то - молоток должен быть большой и массивный из латуни , меди , или бронзы - для отвода и рассеивания тепла ... цинубление - да о чём это я ! ) ... Стяжку можно и сразу ... гумиркой пошире и если притирать на сухую , а не мазать зачем-то видовую поверхность шпона клеем , то она не отвалится ...и стык не разойдётся ... Нагрев основы - это правильно ... Остальное - нюансы ! Но в общем способ вполне рабочий ! )
3 years and only 16909 views. And some schmuck showing how to play video games gets millions. Mickey Knox was right when he said: "The whole world's comin' to an end, Mal!"
I applaud you for trying but I have to say I’m fed up of seeing D I Y cabinet makers giving there opinions and showing techniques that are incorrect. A hot air gun!! Really. Glue on both surfaces of the veneer!! Come on!! Do your homework!! Heating up the hammer!! Try using an iron to heat your sub strait and re activating your glue!!
Christian Dolan sorry, I should have checked with you first. I’ll look for your work output and techniques online and see if I can’t improve my furniture making skills. Do you have a site? A TH-cam channel? Are you in any publications, books or journals where I can learn from you? I like to think I am a student of the craft and always looking to learn. Thanks for any help you can offer. Have a nice day.
@@frankvucolo6249 Lol! Ive been soaking up knowledge and building up courage to try this myself. You are doing it exactly as I envisioned this process to be. I got all the material now, just waiting for an electric gluepot(building up more courage) in the mail. Thnx for posting this video! It does a ton for me
My father is an 18th century guy. I grew up watching this get done and this guy does a great job. Thank you for taking the time. Great Walk through. My veneer hammer is a bit more.... traditional hah.
I haven't seen a demonstration of hammer veneering outside of books. An excellent and fascinating video. Thanks for making it.
Alex Craig thank you. So glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you for taking the time to make this great video.
Hello thee Frank,
If you don't mind me pointing out that the glue is meant to be melted directly in the the copper "sleeve" of your electric pot. The reason why it's copper is because this material is a very powerful disinfectant. The glue being animal based (mainly the gelatinous extract of bovine bones) the glue can "go off"- in other words you can get mould on it. Not with copper. In our old traditional cabinet workshops these glue pots were on the go all day long (they were very large- up to three litres here in Europe). It was the apprentices' job to see that the the water- they weren't electric- didn't evaporate, therefore burning the glue. I veneered miles of pieces of furniture- flat and curved. However, when I moved to Paris from England I was very glad to discover the veneer press! The curved work was done with sand bags.
I'm only @ 4:12 so I better watch the rest of your demonstration. Thank you for sharing. Greetings from France.
Hello musamor and thanks for watching and commenting. I am working on small batches for individual projects, 6-8 oz. Even if I go a second day, I can let the jar cool to room temp, put a lid on it and use it day 2. I just dispose of the last oz or 2 when I am finished. But, I can imagine that in a production environment, like you worked in, many more factors come into consideration. Must have been a wonderful experience for you working in a traditional cabinet shop like that, doing fine work with veneer.
Very good video. I'm replacing a section of veneer on a chest of drawer made in the 30's. This video helped tremendously. Thank you.
Thank you Jim. Good luck with the chest of drawers!
very nice work frank. i've seen this method achieved using a hot iron, mostly by brits, and without an iron like you did. ive tried both and being a beginner, I'm still working out what works best. my first try on a 4 way bookmatch did not come out perfectly but a 2 way bookmatch comes out fine. great video and looking forward to seeing more
Great presentation Frank, it takes the fear out of hammer veneering!
Douglas Moulder Thanks Doug. Glad you found it helpful. You got skills, my friend, I'm sure you will nail the process yourself. Saw on Twitter you got some glue cookin!
Wow! Brilliant! Thank you for showing us how to do it nicely!!!
Lovely sharp scraper! Very satisfying sound.
Glad I found this video. Very well explained. I learned about hammer veneering and the science literally behind shower curtains lol. Beautiful end result 👍
Thanks for watching. I was going to do a video on shower curtains and explain how they worked with hammer veneering, but switched at the last minute! 😊
Awesome. Great instructional video.
Brilliant! I have been searching for a hide glue video that doesn't involve clamping as I want to successfully veneer curves and using pva has been slightly hit and miss. The shower curtain explanation was bang on the money.Thankyou
Thanks for watching, Elaine. Good luck with your hammer veneering!
Plywood is constructed with alternating layers laid up 90° from each other. I was always taught that when using plywood as a substrate, you must follow that pattern when applying the face veneer. When solid wood is the substrate, veneer should parallel the grain, because it moves effectively as one piece. I once tested that out, applying veneer parallel to the last surface of a piece of plywood, as is shown here. It took over a year, but sure enough the veneer checked, very badly over time.
Walter Goodman thanks for the feedback, Walter. First time I’ve heard that.
Masterfully done! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you, Stephen.
What a great video! Thanks for producing and sharing, you’re a natural teacher. -Jim
Thanks Frank. I'm so glad I watched this first!!!
That was very interesting and informative. Never seen it done before. Seems like it should be called squeegee veneering. Nice video, thanks for sharing!
Excellent video.
Glad you enjoyed it, Ted!
Great job as usual Frank.
Jim Marsh
Jim Marsh Thanks Jim
Thanks for sharing!!
The technique of joining the two bookmatched sections was great to watch. I wonder how much longer it would take to cut the sides off neatly - it looks as if your 3/8" will be barely enough in the bottom left corner where the veneer has torn along the edge....
Thank you. If you watch to the end, you will see that all the edges trimmed nicely and the panel fit the door and the finished piece perfectly.
Great video! I have always wondered how to do this and today was the day I learned :)))
Thank you Laurie. Happy this video helped you!
@@frankvucolo6249 Its always nice to see woodworking skills. I love it. :))
Mister Frank, It's very Beautiful !
Thank you, Ciro. The piece has been gifted to a friend who likes it very much.
Thanks for the video it's very informative, just wondered wether hammer veneering works with thicker home cut veneers? Also is it possible to prejoin bookmatched pieces with veneer tape or does this not work with the hot glue? Thanks again Josh
Hi Josh,
Thanks for watching and I appreciate your comment.
Hammer veneering and hide glue was around for many centuries before commercial veneer - cut or sliced with production machines - was available. Back then, all the veneers were cut by hand and thicker than the veneer we can buy today. So you might say that hammer veneering was invented for thicker, shop sawn veneer. Go for it!
As for gluing up taped, rejoined veneers and using the hammer veneering technique, I’ll have to punt on this one. Perhaps another viewer has some experience with this. I have not gone that route. When I have a book match I use the process in this video. When I have a multi-piece veneer assembly, like a tabletop, I hammer the pieces in individually. You can get an idea of that process on my Walnut Table video - it’s in the later part of that video. When I have multiple, smaller pieces taped up - like in an inlay patera for a Federal table leg, I use liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue!) and do a simple cold press with a cork-padded caul and a clamp(s.)
Good luck with your veneering and furniture making!
Frank
Thank for the video; It’s great. I’m trying to learn how to do veneering with a pattern. I’m basically using 8x8 inch veneer squares placed around a veneer pattern that resembles a plus sign. The pattern is for a coffee table that is 30x40 inches. I'm having difficulty getting clean cuts across grain. I’ve tried taping and also using your technique of overlapping and cutting. It can't get a clean joint.
Also, how much scraping is necessary? How do you remove excess glue that has dried in the veneer surface? Scraping has issues with leaving scratch mark. Do you have any move videos that cover the issued I mentioned? Thanks for your help
Rick Winkelman thanks for the comment. Lot of questions, but that’s OK. I’ll try to address them. two things for clean cuts across the grain and cuts with the grain than don’t wander. First, get a veneer saw and learn to sharpen and use it. The teeth are only beveled on one side so it follows your straight edge well. Second, for cuts like I did in this video, get yourself a surgical scalpel and some disposable blades. Super fine quality and strong rigid blades help make good cuts. When you use one the difference between a scalpel and a razor knife will be evident immediately. With either tool, don’t try to muscle the cut. Take a few passes. Make sure you are concentrating, especially on the first pass. Practice.
Excess hide glue isn’t really a problem. So I put glue on the show surface as I describe in the video. If you look closely, you can see the veneer starting to curl before I glue the second, show, side. That’s because one side is expanding much faster than the other from the warm moisture. It balances and flattens immediately, when the second side gets glue. When dry, it scrapes away nicely with a card scraper. But you have to learn and practice sharpening and using a card scraper. You scrape until the glue shavings become mostly wood shavings. Any glue left in the grain is not a problem as hide glue takes finish just like the wood fibers and does not leave the flat shiny spots that yellow or white glue does. Very forgiving that way. And no, scraping does not leave scratches if done properly.
So get yourself a scalpel (Amazon, for one place,) research sharpening and using a veneer saw and research sharpening and using a card scraper. Your world will change.
As for gluing down an assembled top with lots of pieces, taped up,with veneer,tape on the show side, I would use either a cold press technique (a call and clamping) or a vacuum press. When you’re done, it’s back to the card scraper to remove the tape and any glue that bled through under the pressure.
Good luck with the project. Remember, this stuff isn’t hard. But it does take some learning and practice. Did I mention practice? :)
@@frankvucolo6249 Hi Frank. I did try a better blade. It makes a difference. I tried another thing, I got a pair of high grade scissors. The work especially well crosscutting with mahogany veneer. I can literally shave 1/64. I'm experimenting with cutting overlapped pieces as i add on to my pattern. The most challenging part is getting/keeping a clean surface after the glue up. I end up doing a lot of scraping to get all the glue off. that leaves visible mark on the veneer. I keep my scrapers sharp but that's not enough. Im not ready to give up and go for vacuum bag yet. Are pattern veneers done using hammer/hot-hide glue?
And I thought you were going to hammer on it like Brass or copper to give a figured and textured feel. With that ill just go hyde!
What was I thinking?
Project and instructions were perfect i learned somthing. Yes you can teach an old dog new tricks.
I think this is one of the best veneering video I have watched so far. I liked the fact that you explained in details the technique of applying the veneer and using the hammer (from center to edge - I see other videos where they start from the edges...). Also, I see videos where people only apply veneer on one side of the wood panel. The one thing that would have been good to add (to the video) is to show how to recognize the front and back of the veneer (by bending the veneer to see which side is front or back - I just learned that from a different video). I have a question in regard to the curing time... Did you apply any kind of weight to the veneer while it was drying or just let it sit as is? Also, what type of veneer did you apply to the back of the panel? I didn't catch the name... Thanks!
ibaber Thank you. I’m glad you found it useful.
The face veneers are book matched - think of turning the page of a book. So that means that one “page” shows the front of the veneer and the other shows the back. In other words, with book matching, the show faces will be opposite by definition.
In many cases, however, it is important that the same face of the veneer is on the show side. An example would be when edge joining several pieces for a table top. The reason is not so much that there is a top or bottom side to the veneer, the reason is that the fibers in the veneer will angle to the surface differently. That means they will reflect light differently and appear lighter and darker, relative to each other, as you view the piece. You will hear that referred to as “chatoyance.” A way to think about it is to visualize two sets of Venetian blinds next to each other. Close the left blinds tilted up and the blinds on the right tilted down. That inconsistency would be quite obvious, compared to both being closed in the same direction.
There is no need to apply weight while the glue is curing. Two reasons. First: because we removed all the air between the veneer and the substrate, and because the glue is preventing it from getting back in, the weight of the atmosphere is forcing the veneer to the substrate (I’d have to look it up, but I think it’s like 11Lbs per Sq. inch - or about 1500lbs per Sq. ft. - whatever the number, it’s considerable.) The second reason is that the hide glue shrinks as it cures. So it, too, is pulling the veneer to the substrate.
Want a visual on the weight of the atmosphere? Fill one of those flimsy water bottles half way with hot tap water and close the lid tight. Put it in the refrigerator for an hour. As the water and air shrink, while they cool, the atmosphere will crush the bottle.
The veneer on the back of the panel is maple. Doesn’t much matter what species you use, as long as it is roughly the same thickness.
Good questions, ibaber!
@@frankvucolo6249 Thank you very much for your reply! I will have to try the process and let you know if I was able to do it correctly. Maybe start on a small small piece of wood to see how it turns out. Do you have also other videos on including a veneer inlay? Again, thank you for replying to my questions. It was very useful.
Very nice but I can’t figure out what’s the reason you apply the glue on the outer surface and then scraped it off after is cured/dried up?
Grnhrnww Gp I explained it a couple times, so not sure if you are being funny. But in case it is not clear...
You want the veneer to absorb moisture evenly and expand evenly on both sides so it lays flat and stays put as you hammer it down. Notice the maple piece I did first. Before I add glue to the show side, you can see it curling. Once the glue is applied, it flattens out and lays down nicely. Secondly, the glue on the show side allows the hammer to glide smoothly as you work the piece.
Great video. I just got some bookmatch redwood burl veneer for my next project. I had never heard of hammer veneering and have never used hide glue. Two questions for you. Where can you find a veneer hammer, and I presume you have to remove the hide glue from the face before finishing. How do you remove the hide glue from the face? Thanks!
Bland McCartha hi Bland. The veneer hammer I’m using in the video is available from Lee Valley. Tools for Working Wood also sells one. There may be others out there, too. But both of those places are fine establishments. Excess glue on the show side comes off with a card scraper, as shown in the video. Hide glue is very finish friendly, so small traces left behind are of no consequence.
@@frankvucolo6249 Thanks for the info!
Interesting seam technique. I have no experience with hide glue. Can you still stain the veneer after it has been soaked in the glue? Doesn't seem like you'd be able to.
Thank you. I think that if you are moving toward veneer, the need to stain doesn’t come up. At least not for me. If you want a walnut finish, use walnut, cherry, use cherry, etc. you can alter the tone of the wood with your topcoat. Garnet shellac will look darker than amber or blonde. Or you can use a glaze, even a wax with color. These are far more subtle options compared to staining. All that said, hide glue plays very nicely with top coats, unlike white or yellow glue.
@@frankvucolo6249 Ok, thanks much for your feedback.
Thank you so much for this informative video. It's got me feeling inspired. Quick question for you. Would this method be suitable for veneering a 10" radius with raw quarter sawn oak?
Also what would you recommend for thickness of veneer? I'm making the veneer myself;).
Great question, and the answer is yes. That said, I have not personally done a radius of that size. I have done a radius of around 18” and larger (think bow front tables.) so the challenge would be to get good enough adhesion on the first part as you wrap the substrate and before the glue on the rest of the surface dries. You may have to refresh/reheat the glue a couple of times as you work around to re-liquify it (just brush on more hot glue like I did when I refreshed the seam.) This method was around since the time when all veneers had to be cut by hand. So thick veneer is no problem. That said, thicker veneer will have more spring back as you wrap your substrate and will be harder to get down. I’d shoot for no more than 1/32” if you can. If you can get some commercially available quarter sawn oak veneer, it would be around 1/50” and might be your best option. Don’t know how much you need, but it would be fairly inexpensive. Hope this is helpful. Good luck with your project!
At 19:45 what tool were you using to scrape the panel?
Hello Robert. Thanks for watching. That is just a simple card scraper. Essentially a piece of flat steel (about the thickness of a saw blade) with the long edges jointed and honed. You then use a burnisher - usually a hardened steel rod - to roll a burr on the edges.
@@frankvucolo6249 Thank you!
What is the brand of the veneer hammer you are using?
Hi Andrew. Thanks for watching.
That veneer hammer was sold by Lee Valley Tools. I have had it for many years and, unfortunately, it appears they no longer sell it. You may be able to find one on the used market as Lee Valley or Veritas Veneer hammer.
@@frankvucolo6249 Awesome. Thanks for the reply. I bought a new one with a wood handle, but after seeing your video I can see how metal would be nice. C'est la vie
Man this is a intense process to apply veneer, does this produce duffrent results then using contact cement or spray adhesive? Or is this just an old style of applying veneer. Also, why are some against using spary adhesive. Ive used super 90 several times and the veneer still is flawless after a long time, is there a downside unseen yet to using spray adhesive?
Hi Dean and thanks for watching. Veneer has to be pressed to the substrate to get it flat and tight to the surface. As such, it has to slip and slide a tiny amount as it is being pressed. Contact cement and spray adhesive tack right away when the two surfaces meet. Contact cement works well with plastic laminates (Formica) because it is flat and rigid and can be rolled for a tight even bond. The hammer veneer technique has been around for centuries. The combination of the glue’s properties, the hammer and atmospheric pressure combine to make it work. Other liquid glues can be used for veneer, but you will need some kind of press to hold the surfaces tight until the liquid glue tacks and sets. This could be a formal press, a couple,of flat platens clamped on or a vacuum press, the later being a very popular means, especially for curved surfaces. Liquid hide glue, regular white/yellow glue or glues specially designed for veneering can be used.
An alternative technique, that I have seen but not used, is to coat the substrate and veneer with yellow glue. Let it dry, then iron it down to the substrate. The iron liquifies the glue temporarily, giving you the flattening, slipping effect you need, then tacks fast enough to hold it there. You can find an article in Fine Woodworking on this by Mario Rodriguez from years back if you search (pretty sure I have an article in that same issue on table saw outfeed - we were both much younger!)
Of course all this goes out the window when you get into commercial and industrial techniques with big, specialty equipment and presses and specially manufactured backed veneers.
But for small and home shop, you’re going to have to either hammer it, mechanically press it, vacuum press it or iron it.
If anyone else out there has had success with contact cement or spray adhesive on regular, thin wood veneer, please share.
@@frankvucolo6249 also is the hide bonder water based? What ive found that with water based contact cements, that stuff expanded some of my venners almost 3/8th of an inch in some cases which completeky derailed my whole project and i had to start over from nothing, it was just a learning curve i had to go through.
@@deanmilken3633 Are you watching the right video, Dean? :)
Ya gotta pay attention, brother. Maybe you’re just messing with me. So I’ll respond.
Water, yes, as covered in the opening, mixing portion. But the water doesn’t bond, it evaporates off as the glue cures. What does the bonding are the collagen proteins which, in a former life, bound animal connective tissues - skin, bone, tendon. (This is why, back in the day, when a horse was being put down it was said to be going to the glue factory.”
And yes, water makes the veneer expand. I mention that frequently. Look at around 10:00. I have applied glue to one side and it has expanded, causing the veneer to curl to the dry side. As I apply glue to the second side, that side expands and the veneer flattens out. Look in the upper left of the screen as the curl disappears.
@@frankvucolo6249 ahh ok, i looked at the 10:00 mark closer and see it curl slightly. I wasent joking, sometimes when i wake up in the am im slow and stupid for the first hour untill i get going. Just wondering, because ive used certain bonders that expanded the venner too much, and other bonders that expanded the venner only slightly and it didnt affect my project process. Neat process, in the future im going to try this and see how well the results are. This process seems more frogiving and gives you some working time to move the piece around which i need on certain projects. Im deff. Going to try this out, thank you
... Такие щелюги на стяжке ! ...( И , если уж так много говорить , претендуя на глубокие знания ....то - молоток должен быть большой и массивный из латуни , меди , или бронзы - для отвода и рассеивания тепла ... цинубление - да о чём это я ! ) ... Стяжку можно и сразу ... гумиркой пошире и если притирать на сухую , а не мазать зачем-то видовую поверхность шпона клеем , то она не отвалится ...и стык не разойдётся ... Нагрев основы - это правильно ... Остальное - нюансы ! Но в общем способ вполне рабочий ! )
Not sure what this says, but thank you.
3 years and only 16909 views. And some schmuck showing how to play video games gets millions. Mickey Knox was right when he said: "The whole world's comin' to an end, Mal!"
I applaud you for trying but I have to say I’m fed up of seeing
D I Y cabinet makers giving there opinions and showing techniques that are incorrect.
A hot air gun!! Really. Glue on both surfaces of the veneer!! Come on!! Do your homework!! Heating up the hammer!! Try using an iron to heat your sub strait and re activating your glue!!
Christian Dolan sorry, I should have checked with you first. I’ll look for your work output and techniques online and see if I can’t improve my furniture making skills. Do you have a site? A TH-cam channel? Are you in any publications, books or journals where I can learn from you? I like to think I am a student of the craft and always looking to learn. Thanks for any help you can offer. Have a nice day.
@@frankvucolo6249 Lol! Ive been soaking up knowledge and building up courage to try this myself. You are doing it exactly as I envisioned this process to be. I got all the material now, just waiting for an electric gluepot(building up more courage) in the mail. Thnx for posting this video! It does a ton for me
Hello Mikael and thanks for watching. You can do this. Stay positive and do a couple of practice tries.