There's no denying the craftsmanship of TLOU2, but the story and characters just didn't do it for me. Contribute to my channel on Patreon.com/YongYea or by clicking the JOIN button, and you can also follow me on twitter.com/YongYea for the latest updates. TOP PATRONS [CIPHER] - Aiten Williams [BIG BOSS] - Brin - Jonathan Ball - Phil - WECKmaster 329 [BOSS] - Alex Moretti - Charlie Galvin - Devon B - Joe Hunt - Michael Redmond - Peter Vrba - Shepard Gaming - Time Dragonlord [LEGENDARY] - Abdulaziz al Senaidi - BattleBladeWar - Gerardo Andrade - Mark Taylor - Theron Webb - Yue
"I killed the man who killed my father" "That's understandable, I suppose. Why did he kill your father?" "Because my father was about to kill his 14 year old surrogate daughter" "Oh... that's less sympathetic, but heat of the moment and all that..." "Oh no, I killed him 4 years after the event" "Right... but I suppose I can still understand pulling the trigger" "I didn't shoot him, I had my friends pin him to the ground while I beat him to death with a golf club" "Jesus, did he do something to provoke you at the time?" "Nah, I was getting attacked and he saved my life" "Fuck... I hope his daughter doesn't find out" "Actually, she was in the room. I made her watch. His brother too" "Wow. And how do you feel about it now?" "Meh... it wasn't as satisfying as I hoped it would be but other than that I'm pretty OK with it"
One of the most low-level mistakes that TLOU 2 made in the storytelling department is that characters are used (uncharacteristically at times) as tools to serve the plot instead of the other way around. Thanks for pointing that out 35:28
@@frogglen6350 she was moving from one base to another base in wlf territory. They got ambushed by scars. She wasn't going on a mission. She's a doctor, not a soldier.
Frog Glen Yeah Mel wasn’t going on a combat mission. I heard Angry Joe trying time say this too. She was transferring and they expected no resistance. All of this is explained if you listened.
Frog Glen There’s no point in arguing with you dude. The game explains why they are going and you’re just ignoring that. The first game was written by LITERALLY the same guy as part 2.
One game series that pulled off the "Father and Daughter" type bond and succeeded was Telltale's The Walking Dead. Lee Everett is only playable for ONE, I repeat ONE Season; yet remains significant throughout Clementine's story and garnished a whole lot of Fan love for his character due to the successful writing of his character. There is a shock factor in that story, Lee gets bitten out of nowhere. Yet unlike TLOU 2 it's shock factor contributed to one of the most heart breaking endings in Video Games.
What's funny about the plot to this game is that it leaves you heartbroken, not because of what happens, but because it's such a transcendent disappointment and misfire from the original. It doesn't even feel like the same universe. It's so disconnected, it may as well have been a "What if...?" comic
familial bond is one thing… but somehow Telltale also managed to pull off the impossible and created a compelling child character. just think about it: in every other game Clementine would've been more a plot-device than a character. but in The Walking Dead she acts and is treated like an actual, believable human being.
Now imagine if Lee was tortured by some random person the audience doesn't really care about yet is being forced to and now clementine has to hunt that person down only to not do it at the end because reasons. I don't think they know that disappointment can also count as feeling terrible, which is what they were trying to go for with the amount of gore porn and bad edgy writing. It's also incredibly pretentious to assume people are just too stupid to understand the message behind the game. No, they do understand and they're calling it out for being bad.
Gamespot has gone after Angry Joe for his review. They seem to be going after everyone and calling them sexist and racists if they give the game anything less than a positive review.
I think given an unbiased review is totally different than a rant like Angry Joe did, he's just enforcing all the simps that already hated the game before released
@@franciscosilva2923 He played the game and pretty much hated it- I watched some of it, but you expect him to give it a higher score? So why would he, just to please ND who are total assholes BTW- give it a higher score than 6, I thought that was about the fair score for this game myself 6-7.... because technically it was really good.. story was a solid1 maybe 2. UNBIASED= tell what you REALLY think, not bend the knee for some BS.
@@AeridesEntertainment yeah they Walking Dead'd it. This game had little to do with surviving infected. In fact those were some of the easiest sections of the game.
I’ve been told the excuse that Joel’s gone soft after staying in Jackson and that’s why his guard was down. 20+ years of instinct just doesn’t go down the drain like that. I’m sure there’s a system for recruiting people; hard to believe that they’d take anybody directly to their town,
Its not earned. They had all the spectacle and no substance. IMAGINE a game that still hit all these story beats, but flowed them flawlessly through dialogue and intelligent narrative. THAT would've been THE game to end the decade of gaming. the Pinnacle of contemporary gaming to lead us into next gen and vr. Sadly, we got drucked..
They could have talked to veterans who have returned to civilian life and discovered how combat experience completely alters their perception of danger even when they know they should be safe.
I wonder if Neil will have the balls to recommend this review on Twitter? He's so quick to recommend well written reviews that are positive that blindly praise the game, but doesn't say anything about the well written negative ones that point out the good and bad.
Sadly thats a huge nono, you can't criticize this game. You can't even criticize positive reviews without your comment or your opinion to be completely removed. Sucks that youtubers and even naughtydog itself can't take criticism. A story about right and wrong written by people who think they are always right.
Nah dude. With his massive artistic ego and Sony's investors loving all the money this game is generating, they want everyone to focus on those lovely 10/10 reviews, it's a business in the end.
I feel like a lot of people reviewing this (particularly the positive) have forgotten to take into account that LIKING a game isn't the same as a game being good, and HATING a game isn't the same as the game being bad. This review was a really good and detailed explanation as to both the good and bad. As in, you know, an ACTUAL REVIEW.
Actually, liking a game kind of makes it "good". There is no objective truth regarding the quality of any piece of media. It's all subjective. What someone might find to be horrendous story telling, another will find to be clever subversion. I would love to stop the proving "right" of opinions and start having more open ended discussions about games. But yes, you are right. This is one of the few reviews that is reasonable and fair in the way it approaches it's rating and critique.
@@MrMah-zf6jk How would you measure that? It's not like there are scientific methods to find it out. You evaluate something based on the status quo, which is valued as good to begin with. I don't want to shut down people saying they find something to be good or bad but try to make the conversation about it more important than the mere statement.
@@MangaMarjan Well you haven't said anything either. First off, it's not all subjective. Get that shit out of your system! It is complete poison. Also, by your logic, disliking a game also makes it bad. You can't choose one over the other just because. There are ways to tell if a story is good, like consistency, characters using logic, use of subtle hints, if there are contradictions, plot-holes, etc. It's true that a lot of the time people argue about story it will boil down to how they feel about someone/something, but every now and again people can be pushed back into a corner. Same with game play. Check out Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, an extremely buggy mess with characters as stiff as hell and a repetitive creepy story that becomes really contrived. Some characters have broken abilities, others can't shoot straight without the camera wandering off, and sometimes you may just get stuck in a wall. There is no official measurement, but would you really recommend someone a game this flawed in good faith? You're not going to get me to agree with you that it's fine the way it is, or that anyone who does say it's good shouldn't have their other game opinions taken with a huge pile of salt.
@@MangaMarjan You can like Fallout 76, but it doesn't mean that the game isnt a bug filled, mtx fuelled, half-hearted failure of a creation. There are objective criticisms of stuff that CAN be claimed as a negative, no matter what someone's personal feelings of the whole product are. Examples are: Lack of enemy variety, lack of location variety, poor voice acting, poor game performance, poor writing, shallow characters, etc etc. You get what i mean? My point is that just because you enjoy a game, doesn't mean there aren't problems with it, and just because you didn't enjoy a game, doesn't mean there isn't good or innovative things about it. Hence the point about higher quality reviews taking both good AND bad into account, rather than just screaming about how bad it is, or just blindly acting like there's nothing wrong with it at all.
My main issue with the game: The gameplay doesn’t align itself with the message of the story. Edit: “reflect” might be a better word to describe it. But the point is the same.
What was that word that was used for the Uncharted games, Ludonarrative Dissonance? Where the story (or the main character's motivations) are at odds and can even contradict the gameplay where you get to gun down nearly everyone in sight and are then told that the villains are evil because they kill people..or something like that.
The progressive Western "trend". Japanese games don't care with "subverting expectations". Heck, I even more appreciate Kojima's DS after playing this... "flawless masterpiece".
Yeah, it's all thanks to old G.R.R. Martin and his use of "shock value". The funny thing is, he is the only mainstream writer who knows how to use this narrative technique correctly. He uses it when it is impactful and makes sense, and this is because he is a dedicated and loves his craft. But then we have all these other hack writers who think "shock value" is as easy as subverting expectations, so that is what they do in their movies/games. They use shock value without any skill, and it shows. The resulting stories from these amateur writers end up becoming examples of train wrecks in storytelling. All these shitty stories are due to writers with ZERO TALENT trying to emulate the ability of an expert writer. It is an embarrassing fad in storytelling and needs to stop.
If the game started with Abby, and hid the plot twist that she was Joel’s killer until the mid section of the story, I think the story would have been slightly more tolerable
True. The sequence of events is very important. For example, you have scene A, scene B and scene C. From that you can create many different sequences, and most combinations will result in different reactions from the audience. This isn't necessarily a bad or even original story but it's told in the wrong way. That and the kitsch with Abby is really hamfisted in my opinion. Your enemy doesn't have to be the best human on earth to be relatable or likable. I would even go as far as saying that most people I know don't find those characters to be relatable at all.
Remember when Everyone hate Jamie Lannister at the beginning for throwing Bran out the window? You all remember how he eventually redeemed himself? Yeah, well, that didn't happen here
The way Naughty Dog wanted this story to impact players required the subtlety of a scalpel. Instead, they beat us over the head with a sledgehammer. It was just way too in your face to have any kind of impact like they were intending.
He should be expecting a Sony phone call from the PR department any moment now ... "Hey man, we saw you review, and ... hmmmm .. care to EXPLAIN YOURSELF!"
dudes, i don’t think that how things work plus, as much as i appreciate people who do this kinda content, he is very shallow in his understanding of the game. (nothing wrong with that, i’m sure he must be 10 times more intelligent than me, but he totally missed the point on this one)
Does anyone remember the scene in the Tombraider remake when Lara kills someone for the first time, and has a good cry over it, but scarcely minutes later once the game continues the player is sort of encouraged to kill enemies instead of ignoring them (of course I killed them, I needed ammo/resources and they were trying to kill me first).
Yeah from what I remember I think Lara nearly gets sexually assaulted by that guy before she kill him then like 2 minutes later it’s just basically ignored and now Lara’s a killing machine, it was so irritating
@@johnbrown7346 you shouldn't blame the player for something which the game allows. If there is the option to kill with no repercussions it's an issue with the gameplay loop not mixing with the narrative.
It wouldve been alot better if for the first chapter or so your accuracy sucks like its wavering alot. When you reload its clumsy and slow. As the game goes on you without being blatantly shown, see laura reloading faster and easier. And steadying her aim more easily. That wouldvd shown the shift much better
Thank you for drawing attention to the fact the character deaths in the first game had more meaning and were drawn out to allow the player a chance to absorb the meaning/ feeling of their deaths and how it affects the other characters.
They wanted it more grounded and unexpected. Jesse's death was honored many times after in the epilogue. Anything can happen at anytime, they don't magically miss or shoot someone in a non vital spot in TLOU.
@@iskoconquers They are my favorite side characters. Even tho they left unexpectedly (if u play for the first time). In TLOU II, the side characters werent much of a focus but in-game dialogue/actions did have meaning. It would have unnecessarily long to focus more on that side stuff.
@@cyanprince00 but the thing is I didn't care as the player when any of these new characters died. When Henry and Sam died in thr first game, it was sudden and jarring but I actually felt something in that moment. But in this game, it felt cheap and played for shock value. And in Abby's storyline, I was actually happy when her friends died because this game failed making me empathize or even like them. The first game had a story to tell. The second game wanted to teach you a lesson.
Even with a left handed guitar (Not to mention the thinking over) will not solve the problem. When pulling(? I dunno the Eglish word for it) you still need all your fingers, sadly.
"Nah, you're just a manbaby who is mad that you didn't get your fanservice." This is literally how ridiculous the defense of this game gets. The game does have strong sides and redeeming qualities, but you will find very few of them in the story.
I loved the game. Said it on Twitter and all i got were man babies telling me i was a shill a cuck bla bla bla. There's an overwhelming amount toxicity from those who disliked the game, even if you say you liked the game. Fuck these people lmao.
@@Oriaks why it's hard for me to enjoy anything. People accuse games of becoming political on both sides only to themselves make it political. Then before you know it someone hates your guts for liking something they haven't even bought
4 ปีที่แล้ว +20
As someone else already stated, this game has been getting review bombed like crazy by morons who have clearly never played it. This criticism goes both ways.
OHHH I feel you. if not only for the opening with the scenes from TLOU 1 made me feel sad though as well. Sad to realize what we could have had if only Neil would have had any writing talent
@Chase Miller I believe Bruce was critical in pulling Neils head out of his ass during development. Unfortunately it was just too far up there this time around.
@@Perrylayne105 Oh well, if you *believe* then it must be true. Never mind the fact that the TLOU1 ending was all Neil and clearly a significant section of the fanbase completely missed the point of it.
The claim that Druckman based his lying trailers in Metal Gear Solid 2 proves Druckman has no idea how to handle a story. Yes, it's true that MGS2 lied about who the protagonist was, but the game revolves around the theme of people being misinformed and lied to by the media. Having a trailer that lies about the game's protagonist _was the whole point._ It wasn't just trolling, it was meta advertisement about the game's very obvious meaning. Druckman doing it in a game that has nothing to do with that theme is no different from an action movie sneaking slo-mo scenes only because they look cool, with no regard for how they could fit into the narrative. Naughty Dog games have always been about the characters. Their stories have always been, at best, pedestrian. And that includes the original TLOU. Having the story be more important than the characters is a mistake when you can't write a good story to save your life.
The uncharted games and TLOU story's have been told literally a millions times in games and other media. It's the connection to the characters that draw us in and make them feel special. How many apocalypse/zombie films games comics TV shows have you seen a story resolved around a possible cure? How many action adventure films tv shows games have you seen around a treasure hunter? There are thousands. But it's the characters that make naughty dog games better than what they are.
@Marcin Jechorek Your point being? You didn't cry because of the story, you did it because of the characters. Alternatively, you might just be a crybaby who cries about everything, I don't know you. But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you aren't. You can't just get sad for characters you don't care about, no matter what they go through. The story doesn't make you cry, the characters do.
dude definitely has more to lose now especially when he's pursuing VA career in LA. I say he better of join a legit merit passionate people like Amy Hennig.
Not to mention, Sony owns Kojima now. Yong really puts his lifeline and his fanaticism for Kojima to give a honest review on this despite will be blacklisted from accessing his favourite creator.
Ever since Andromeda I've never been hyped up for a game. Whenever I keep my standards high, I always end up disappointed. I wasn't looking forward to part 2 but was quite intrigued when I heard that there was going to be a sequel since I played part 1 and the left behind DLC a few years back. I've also played all of the entire uncharted series and enjoyed it very much. It sucks how a company who's done nothing but produce quality games and had such a great community can throw it all away with just one game with terrible storytelling. Sorry if I come off as rude, I know there's people who genuinely enjoyed the game so just ignore this comment. It's just me ranting
I personally loved Andromeda despite some issues. A major bonus of Andromeda is I didn't have to deal with Tali being on my crew as I could not stand her and I genuinely enjoyed the team in Andromeda more as most of the team members in the original trilogy were just cliché personalities. I did miss Garrus though. Also felt people were too hard on the story as let's be honest the original trilogy is far from a master piece in story telling. Very cheesy in a lot of moments and trying too hard at points to be edgy. Don't get me wrong I absolutely adore Mass Effect 1,2 and 3. But there were a lot of things Andromeda did do better. But hey its not for everyone.
@@RadiumBadger ME1 is one of the best examples of story telling and world building in any video game ever, sadly the rest of the game was dated even for its time(combat, ai etc...)
Damn, Miracle of Sound, didnt expect to see you here. Y'all make some fucking awesome stuff. Just wanted to say thanks for all the content you've made. Keep being awesome.
@@GigglingStoners they were probably blindly positive reviews. Cuz any critical points obviously make an argument against something someone likes invalid and bad, right?
I already said this in Twitter, but I'll said it here, apologists say: "If you didn't like the Story you didn't understand it" Bullshit, the story is so elementary that it may as well be written with crayons. The game is not terrible, but is definitely not a masterpiece, a solid 7 in my opinion. But that's it. Play once and move on to something else.
Yeah, I liked it a lot, I’d give it an 8.5 but it’s not that people don’t understand, some people just ignored it, cause to me it’s obvious so many people didn’t play the game cause I’ve heard people say shit that is just, wrong, like someone was trying to say he saw a full play through, so I asked how long the game was and he said 7 hours, the game with cutscenes is 20 hours, half of it is cutscenes
I actually enjoyed the game, the setting and graphics really stand out to me. Still shocked that this runs on a 2013 console. It's a technical marvel. But I would agree with your score, it was a solid 7/10 for me when you add everything up.
I think the game is a 10/10. That’s my opinion. I can’t call your opinion dumb and you can’t either. The story isn’t complicated to understand, simply its the direction the writers take the story in which is heavily contested. Some will love it and some will hate it and that’s the case with every piece of decisive storytelling.
For me it's easily a 9 and that's mostly the story. I think there really is a surprising amount of depth to the story and some parts are left vague for the viewer to have their own interpretation. I really think if the game wasn't leaked and then then repeatedly spoiled by youtubers in the weeks leading up to launch there'd be much more positivity. Still some controversy though on account of Joel's death.
It's weird how all the high profile critics have sworn blind this game is nearly perfect but more reliable sources say the writing and pacing is a mess with ever so slightly better gameplay than the first game. I'm really sad the plot of this game is so lacklustre. The first game was almost perfect and has been in my top 10 list since it released. I'm just going to pretend this one doesn't exist, or play it in 5 years when it's a ps plus give away.
This game gave me an actual headache, about half-way through I just wanted it to be over. It wasn’t fun, I didn’t look forward to the cut scenes. When I played the first one, I got excited every time a cut scene started, as I got closer and closer towards the end of the game I felt sad knowing the story was coming to a close. Short story long, TLOU 2 was a complete letdown and I would rather the game have never been made, as it soured my memory of the characters from the original. With some of the cutscenes being changed mid way through development, I blame druckmann, I wonder if they have enough footage to make a directors cut to change it just enough to not suck.
You hit the nail. That is my sentiment regarding this game. One of my friends bought it and play it. I saw the spoilers and refused to do it, but friend wanted to avoid them. When he finished it we talked about the game for over an hour, and we came to the conclusion that it was not as good as the first one, yet it was good. I truly believe the game is good. Yet, still not as good as the first one. My friend told me to play it regardless since it is still worth it, but for me what is the point. Why would I play something that doesn't live up to it's legacy? I think the true tragedy is what you just said. It is good, but not quite.
@@gilbertoperalta2172 I agree with your buddy. It's definitely worth playing through for the experience, and those subtle things that only you will notice and take from the game's beautifully crafted scenes. The first one is masterful and better, but this was still a great game. A mirrored emotional rollercoaster that exposes the deep flaws in each characters but also shows them at their best.
AMAZING review. The most professional, carefully considered review of a game I’ve ever seen. If Naughty Dog wanted to make better games in the future, they’d have this playing on repeat in order to enhance narrative structure, pacing, and balancing aspects of their future games to come. Thank you
@@hond4h34d Because you cannot give a critical review unless you CYA with basically a plot synopsis and point-by-point reasoning of why the game fails in some respects. Did you play the review at 2.0x or something and just miss all the injection of why the plot failed at points?
@JMC #1 Is that true? Also are we going to be playing as Abby in a future installment if there is one? I'm wondering if Neil Druckmann has written himself into a corner with this game's narrative?
First game: character driven. The events that happen in the story do because the characters' personalities justify their actions. Second game: plot driven. The events that happen in the story do because the story demands it, characters' personalities be damned. When people say they don't understand why so many are negative towards the sequel, it's because they haven't taken a second to analyze something so simple.
Well said. Tommy is like the perfect example of this. No time spent developing his character yet having him change his mind only to serve the plot. With better writing and background information, you could imagine how he arrived at his different choices, but none of it was shown, so he just comes off as bi-polar.
I agree. Alot of things happen in this game for the sake of the story, but it's not earned because it's at the expense of how characters would naturally act. It's non organic
One thing I didn’t understand about the game was: how did Dina give birth to a completely healthy child while she got shot in the first day in Seattle, moved, jumped, lost a lot of blood and got the hell beaten out of her?
@@BenReillySpydr1962 She was in her first trimester, during this stage the fundamental systems of a new organism are formed. Getting sick or injured could be more dangerous to the baby's health than during later pregnancy stages. Getting shot and cut would be worse, because any medication she takes can adversely affect the featus.
Speaking of pregnancy, why the hell would they allow a fully pregnant woman (Mel) who's like ready to give birth any day AND is a medic go out onto the front lines? If she snuck off on her own that's one thing, but they straight up just let her
Tommy had already mentioned his name and Joel's to Abby after they saved her from the infected even before they got to that room full of Abby's gang. Still, pretty unbelievable that Tommy would just spill their names on impulse to a stranger like that given he and Joel's past.
The whole point of revenge being a key point in RDR and TLOU is that it never never ends. Hell for all we know Jessie and Dinas baby could go for revenge for his father somehow
An excellent and spot-on review. Praises exactly what deserves praise, calling out what deserves calling out, and overall highlighting this game's biggest flaw: a story so focused on revenge that somehow doesn't understand it's own message.
Definately a very good and professional review however there are points of view here that are completo wrong from yongs view l, like many other don't understand. The story is better than most people say due to each one's will to be entitled
@@andyespinozam In skillup's review he hardly mentioned sound or audio design and included some incorrect information about skill trees and the number of boss encounters. He did however compare it to both GOT S08 and the last jedi and then he celebrated the review bombing on his second channel. All in all not his best or most thorough review lol.
This game was made the same way I would write an essay at university. I'd write sections at a time and think I'm making amazing critical points, the structure is perfect and nailing an amazing 1st class pass. I would link them up thinking that the overall structure is great, I wouldn't proof read it or ask anyone else to read it and just send it off. It was a mess... and after re-reading it after getting my mark, seeing all the structure flaws, spelling & grammer mistakes and realise that a majority of the points I thought were amazing weren't even fully fleshed out in the essay, I'd be jumping all over the place. I'm reminded what my professor said to me when I brought up this problem and the block I had when writing essays. She wrote to me in an email: "when you write, you have to imagine the person reading it has never read a scientific paper before and they have no knowledge on the subject. Explain more, take your time and once you've introduced the concepts and terminology slowly, begin to pick up the pace and change gears gradually. Once you've established a stable structure then you can go fully into your usual style. Always carry a forward progressive momentum like you're changing gears in a car" Once I did that my scores improved dramatically and I found my own work easier to read. The change from writing parts a time and throwing them together just doesn't work for a coherent piece of work that's trying to build to a reasonable conclusion to a topic now. To me It seems that naughty dog had their own in-house testers and after playing and watching the game over and over at different sections, were blinded by the flaws. They didn't get someone to proof read the written plot and didn't get outside testers to flesh out and openly discuss the critiques of the game.
Relating to the last part, they were probably some in house testers who did see the flaws of the game but maybe was worried that they might get 'cancelled' or just called "not able to understand the complexity of it'
@@user-dj9iu2et3r No he really didn't. If he had really shown people the overall script, they would have not only pointed out the flaws, but actually given better ideas to improve what he was after. His whole "Revenge is bad" storyline was undercut by his own writing. If they wanted to tell this story, then it is a failure from start to finish cause it comes off as pretentious.
@@user-dj9iu2et3r Cause intolerant people who cant even handle being told "What you wrote is really a mess" would get them cancelled. Neil is a thin skinned person, how do you think he would act towards a tester who pointed out this was not good?
Dolomaticus He did play test the game. In fact, testers not liking the characters led to many rewrites and reshoots. There was a story of one focus tester who got fired because they were being a bit of a dick with some rather sexist remarks; but that was for Uncharted 4 I believe. I don’t particularly like the story, but Druckmann definitely play tested the game and made some changes. It just seems those changes weren’t enough.
The problem is that they're way too forgiving when it comes to these kind of games... They're not treating or criticising these cinematic games as hard as they should like other mediums such as movie industry. And on top of that they want to brag and show off to their peers that how much of an artistic sense and taste they got, they're willing to go any length to be taken seriously, and also add Sony's blacklisting thing to it... It's just fucking embarrassing man. 😔
@@rashidtorn3709 It's common knowledge if you give a critical or negative view from a AAA developed game the publishers will usually black list you. For places like IGN that does mean a loss of money as they do advertising deals and early previews for such games on the publishers behalf... Yong being independent is per say effected financially like a IGN or Gamespot in this situation. It can though get him black listed meaning he personally who does review or talk about gaming is hindered slightly to said companies that "shill" for the publishers. If you are unaware of this you don't particularly pay attention to the gaming industry at all.
@@rashidtorn3709 There's clearly some bias that everyone can see regarding games like this. you don't see "reviewers" fellating Doom Eternal this fervently.
@Rashid Torn It is not that they are "paid shills", it is that they still want to keep their relationship with these company to get their reveiw copies, so they are the first to rate the anticipated game. The problem with that is they will highly praise the game and not list any problems(which this game has many) and give perfect scores to please these companies. This is why places like IGN, Metacritic, Gamespot and other "professional" reviewer sites have become jokes in the gaming industry. No game should have perfect scores, very high maybe. This game has divided the fandom, like the last jedi.
They forgot about the bond that made the first game so amazing, they wanted to be as controversial as possible but they threw away good writing just to make it happen. Don't get me wrong the game looks amazing but, naughty dog just destroyed what they spent so many years to create, believable characters and story telling
@@deandane589 sounds like they spoiled some of the most exciting parts of the game and then when people played it those parts were kind of underwhelming.
It just feels like they kept putting the characters through torture porn so they could make the gamer feel more and more shitty.. I think that in the pursuit of more and more violence the characters keep getting less sympathetic and more sad.
I mean it is a gritty and dark Apocalypse game though. I know there was alot if enjoyment in some sections of the story where some characters got revenge or two characters connected.
Wtf, that's kind of the entire point? Bad shit happens in real life, even more so in an apocalypse. I'm glad they had the balls to make this sort of game. Someone had to.
I'd argue that they probably should have had more high points just to counter the depressive points, if only to compliment the two, at least with Abby's side.
I was a bit nervous when I was about to watch this review, I always trust Yong, although I was a little worried that he was going to blindly praise the game and ignore the flaws like most of the pseudo intellectual game journalists that really just write these reviews to get pats on the back from their peers, instead of actually reviewing the game and helping consumers make a purchase decesion. I applaud you Yong, really admire your integrity. Amazing review
Let’s be honest, most people don’t go to reviews to decide if they want to buy the game. They do it to validate their opinion of the game. People especially wouldn’t come to a spoiler review ;)
HenryTheGod This is correct. People want to think everyone agrees with them. Just watch xQcOW watching vgdunkey’s positive review. He just about loses his shit. It’s ok if people like or dislike the game. Not the end of the world.
Every single reviewer that I trust has said this game was incredibly disappointing. Whomever it was who leaked the game is a goddamned hero in my book. He or she saved countless people from being swindled out of $60.
I reckon they got what they deserved... blantly lying/misleading people through false advertisement, marketing and treating fanbase like sheeps to milk money was and STILL is an unforgivable strategy. As you said that guy is a legend.
Game sales are dropping sharply, while people are saying an 80% is normal I doubt the game will sell as good as the last one did throughout, a ton of reviewers and streamers saying the game was disappointing compared to the first ain't going to help Druckmann ether.
I feel like part two didn’t understand what people loved about the first game. The mechanics and shooting were serviceable, but the characters and story is why the first game is beloved. This game made characters from the first game worse and most of the new characters were forgettable or just bad. This story is just about pain misery and revenge. Mechanically and technicality it’s well crafted, but it’s a miserable experience that I did not enjoy and would not recommend.
@@shldnfr You could spend 50 hours with exactly these same characters, if they are still as bland, uninspired, unidimensional and just there for the shock value, no matter how much time you spend with them, you will never get attached nor invested.
shldnfr in the first game, we only spent a couple minutes with Bill, and just a little more with Henry and Sam, yet their characters had more meaning than any of Abbys friends combined.
I enjoyed this game but I agree that should have been a part 3. The ending for this game is perfect for a trilogy. This game introduced way too many characters. They were good, but they weren't given enough time for me to really care. The only death that actually got me was jesse's death. Jesse was really likeable and so was owen. I feel like owen was the only one who was logical.
This review is so clearly well-reasoned, measured, balanced, thoughtful, and (from my perspective) consistently accurate that I can’t understand how there is even one down vote, let alone 856. Anyway, truly fantastic job with this review, YongYea. You hit it out of the park.
The whole game just feels so unnecessarily padded out with the absolutely most oxymoronic narrative design decisions I've ever seen. And Neil Druckmann had the audacity to claim it as "challenging conventions." when all it did was pander to his writer's ego than delivering a cohesive character driven narrative ala TLoU1. The whole gimmick they tried to push on forcing us to empathize with Abby just cannot and will not work for those who were already invested to the 1st game's cast.... It's a fool's errand from the get go. And the fact that they felt it's necessary to have her segment be THAT large of a chunk of the narrative only speaks on how desperate they are on trying to be "clever" when all they needed to do was to adhere to the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Stupid. TLoU 1 didn't exactly have the most intriguing of plot admitably, but the delivery and pacing was/is nothing short of masterful. It's the complete reverse in this one with characters being tools for the plot instead. It's simply disappointing.
You say the game doesnt defy conventions but then you discuss that you play as abby a character we all hated when we first took control of her. That alone defies conventions. Very few games ever force you to play both perspectives of hero and villain. The universal truth is every person sees themselves as the hero in thier own story. This game makes you play through both sides which is innovative.
@@TaylorFrye94 trying to justify villain's actions instead of making him/her evil just for the sake of being evil is very common in games, and usually works if writers are doing their job well. Sadly, in this game it wasn't the case. The only innovative part was playing for such a villain half of the game, but it couldn't replace proper writing.
@@lukenolin1105 Sadly, as much as I wanna share the sentiment on not hating on Neil, it's getting harder by the day with how pretentious he has been on social media. Dude's remarks has been basically demeaning any criticism while lowkey patting his own back on twitter that it's like he wants people to be as apathetic as possible towards him.
@@TaylorFrye94 No..... it doesn't defy conventions... let alone being innovative. Especially so when dual narrative with opposite parties have been done prior and have been done far better. Cite Halo 2's Arbiter missions, Warcraft 3, hell even GTA 5 comes to mind with how unlikeable/ conflicting some of the main characters are. Better yet, if we're simply going to take it as parallel narrative, look at Nier Automata. And yet all of them feel rewarding to the target audience despite their individual affinity towards any of the singular party present in the respective games. What this game does is shoehorn unnecessary exposition for new cast of characters that bear little to no redeeming factor with how incoherent, inconsistent and illogical their narrative progression are which basically gave them 0 growth and just pads out the experience ergo waste the audience's time. If wasting the audience's time is what you consider as defying conventions then sure.... The universal truth is that a writer being a hypocrite to his/ her own supposed rule of thumb always leads to confusion and objective failure. Neil himself said that his rule of writing is that of "Simple plot, complex character", neither of which are competently achieved here let alone it breaking new grounds. To assume that it did is just sheer lunacy and ignorant grandiose.
Scoot McGroot I see. I don’t follow Neil on social media, so I don't know if that's accurate or not. Either way, just think that in these situations the more constructive and less scornful people can be towards each other, the better.
Hands down the fairest, most thorough and thoughtful review on this game I've seen. You covered all the problems with the games narrative choices perfectly.
Yup. I’m on the side that the theme was what drove the story and made me really like it. I could see why people hated it. Another thing that made me OK with the ending was where the game was willing to go to set up future installments. Different factions, different cities, different main characters.
Well, I don't have a high opinion of Kojima apart from the first Metal Gear 1 (& 3) for that matter. So I am not sure if the end result would have been better if he had successfully imitated Kojima.
@Shaka Bono I'll probably give Death Stranding a try one day, but I think that I'll enjoy playing it less than this one. Just the fact that I would have to watch an almost three hour long ending makes me roll my eyes. I don't know about the rest of the game, but something can't be right if your end sequence is longer than most movies. The more games I played from Kojima the more I thought that he is in desperate need of an editor who can tell him to shut up here and there and to trim down his stories.
@@malafakka8530 yeah for metal gear solid 1, 2 and 3 they had an editor to ring him in, mgs4 is really where you could start to see him without an editor and damn was that messy and long
@@ravenwhiteduck6460 I abhor Metal Gear Solid 4. I was like: where is the game? Is this all the gameplay that you are offering me? It was one of the rare occasions in which I regretted buying a "game." I always say I watched Metal Gear Solid 4. I never say I played it.
I wish someone could show this to Neil and his team of writers and important people at Sony and Naughty Dog because they need to hear this professional yet constructive criticism. This review is very well constructed, Yong is speaking very eloquently and is coherent in his statements. He points out the bad and explains the "why" so well but he also praises the good work that has been poured into this game. This is what constructive criticism looks like. Yong wasn't disrespectful in his presentation nor did he insult the creation of many talented people. He spoke like a person with experience in the video game industry and remained professional on his critical analysis of this game. I, personally, agree with everything Yong has said in his review and was even surprised by some of the statements he has made throughout the video. It shows that he has put a lot of thought into this video. More game journalists need to take note on how a true review is done and the companies need to learn to listen to constructive criticism even more, it will only be in their favour.
In my honest opinion, the writing felt contrived. I feel like this game was great in the technical department yet completely failed in the literary one. It’s a shame that a game with so much potential could have told a great story, yet was ultimately let down by poor execution and felt like another dime a dozen revenge plot. Be civil in the comments👍🏼
I feel really sad for all the hardworking staff in the tech and art department, while they just put out a lot of lazy written stories in games these days.
"masterpiece in the technical department" Can you explain what you mean with this? The game play mechanics haven't changed in almost a decade and a game looking good in 2020 doesn't make it stand out.
"you cut out all the build up and you're just left with the act like how are you gonna solve it. It kills any argument as to how two people ended up at that place." - bill burr
This is one of the most soothing game reviews, if not the most, I’ve ever heard. Please do this again, even more, if possible. You have such an amazing voice, and amazing creative talent. Keep it up, YongYea, I appreciate you.
Since the studio never had any “plans for the future” like a part 3 or dlc, they could have done the game with dynamic choices. We decide who lives and dies, that would of been more impactful and emotional. And like yong said about killing dozens of strangers through the game I feel the game needed more work as for how stealth works, game pretty much forces you to kill everybody you just decide how quietly
It would’ve been cool if the dynamic choices or dialogue would change depending on how many enemies you kill during the game, especially if you are skilled enough to go full pacifist too.
The whole point of making Abby and Lev was sequel fuel, they couldn't afford to lose that. I would've bought Abby's game if it was this game from her perspective. As of now, i dont care for anything the series holds for the future
@@dtanobo bloodborne is stupid for letting you choose as well then? ND wanted to "break molds" and whatever. If you're going to make a game so focused on morals, why don't give the player the ultimate say on the matter?
@@rossmckeown8675 The only irony here is you spouting "tough shit" "grow up" without accepting that someone can have an opinion that doesn't correspond to yours.
“I think how much you enjoy TLOU 2 story does ride heavily on how much you enjoy Abby” I think that’s about right. I felt Abby had some really redeeming qualities, but couldn’t connect as well with her as the game clearly wanted me to. Even understanding her character motivations I was still rooting for Abby to lose in the games final act.
@JMC #1 Why? He/she only said didnt connect with Abby. There wasnt anything in his/her comment about hate or attacking voice actress. You cant accuse a person just with that. With your logic everyone who hate Abby sent threatening messages to VA, including me.
So if I review the game and it’s amazing it’s not an honest review? At the end of the day people will hate it and others will love it. That’s how life is
@@Luis-by7li Even if you think it's an amazing experience for you, you still have to address the structural flaws in the narratives of the game in order for the review to be thorough and honest.
You know I don't think the first game was impactful enough. Maybe if they had wasted 12 hours to make us play as the cannibal rapist in a desperate attempt to empathize with him it would have hit harder.
You talking about the super creepy David from the first game? Apologies, I'm confused on what you're saying. Are you mocking this game for making you play as Joel's murderer or are you saying you wished there was an hour+ game play where you were David?
Damn, this is one of the best reviews out there on the internet and there are people whose jobs are solely reviewing games. Definetely worth the wait, not everyone will agree with what you said and it's okay, but great work nonetheless.
JTtopcat Got a official video/screenshot that shows a Raiden character model replaced with Solid Snake during the Big Shell? Bonus points if it was used as an ad.
I honestly feel like Naughty Dog could be sued for false advertising. Didn’t some guy sue Gearbox for how Colonial Marines didn’t look like its initial trailer? I feel like they could do the same here.
5:36 I'm no snob but Neil clearly missed one of the many points of Metal Gear Solid 2's narrative and it's early character swap. MGS2's narrative could be summed up a few ways. To believe none of what you hear and half of what you see and to be wary of marketing or hype culture as it can be used to deceive or manipulate you and to not blindly follow or praise something just because their reputation or name wether it be the name of a person or the label on a box. Coincidentally and ironically it doesn't help that he probably also missed out on what happens when you try to create context or control the flow of digital information considering all the illegitimate copyright strikes weaponnized against any possible or potential opposing views for simply not being part of their own gated off community away from the larger forum.
Exactly. He is so shallow to think that what Kojima did there was just for the sake of surprise, it fit brilliantly and. I say this as one who was very angry about the character swap, but ended up falling in love with the game and its characters, especially Raiden. In the end, it all makes sense, and comes together naturally, unlike this mess. Niel just overplayed his cards here, and tried something out of his league, unfortunately.
Yup. As a matter of fact, the ending of MGS2 when Campbell was talking to Raiden about how the Partiots will be collecting information, controlling flow, and recreating new context to sculpt society is the very thing Neil did.
@ThatDamnScottishGuy Yeah that is true, but it did take a while to get there, I remeber the talk in the schoolyard and we all wanted snake which we sorta got with part 3, the later we all realized that part 2 we actually good.
I mean not everything Kojima touches is gold, and Hideo is way too self-indulgent at times. But I think he is a far better storyteller than Neil either way
The Jo*el/E*llie flashbacks were so good. The developers had magic at their fingertips, and they just threw it away. Such an incredibly arrogant, foolish move.
It's got a good chance. I mean cyberpunk is pretty late so it may not have a chance. It's main rivals would be doom eternal and ff7 remake. Ghost might gey nominated too but I would be surprised if its a strong contender.
@@OmegaZeroX28 Cyberpunk's delay means that it isn't applicable for GOTY, which is disappointing, because even if CDPR didn't deliver on everything they promised, I think Cyberpunk would still win hands down.
lol GOTY is like Oscar. It is about who pay better for the media which holding it. The only GOTY I believe now is steam as it is more user oriented (you cannot nominate the game if you don't own them, and after that only user vote is matter).
@@OmegaZeroX28 Probably not, due to delay. It's got to be Ghost of Tsushima or a sleeper hit Sony and ND sure took a sweet time to release their game. Had it released in 2019 like they promised, it would have gotten completely mauled lol
Blicious I agree, but saying he clearly doesn’t understand storytelling when he created, in my opinion, an example of the best story telling gaming has to offer seems unfair to me. I just think somewhere along the line he got too much air blown up his ass and thought everything he did would be perfect. And thus we get this mess. Hopefully he humbles himself, but his reaction to criticism seems to me like he won’t. He’ll always have the first game though, and that shows he has immense talent in there
If anything else, this game will definitely go down as the "Star Wars: The Last Jedi" of videogames. Blindly loved by top reviewers and critics, passionately hated and fought over by the fanbase. I give this game Two Fingers out of 5.
Hey yong, I will say this, honestly a fantastic and very professional highly detailed review once again you knocked it out of the park my friend, great review!! Btw screw those dogs!!
I admit I was a little nervous that this review would parrot what all the other critics are saying- There seems to be pressure to 'take sides' with polarizing stuff like this. Thankfully, Yong has more integrity than that. I appreciate the honesty without sounding like a hater.
Thank you Yong for an excellent breakdown and thoughtful, fair review. I hope that fans who liked/loved the game in good faith, realize that many of us that thought it's story was poorly written, contrived, full of plot holes, unbelievable coincidences, overly manipulative, and had contradictory characterizations, are not all trolls or bad faith actors, giving the game a zero. The two factions of fanboys with an automatic 10, and trolls review bombing with a zero along with toxic comments are both to be condemned. It 's a shame that those two groups taint the conversation from having a nuanced and intelligent discourse of why some of us liked it and some found it a massive disappointment after playing. The game was a technical marvel, improved the gameplay somewhat, and should be lauded for it's amazing accessibility features. However the story, the awful pacing, at times questionable level design, retconning of the first game, and turning our beloved characters into fools or monsters without the needed strong storytelling to make that acceptable, is what inevitably made this a 6/10 in my opinion.
It's a 6/10 maybe a 7 for me as well. But let's be real, the fools who like this game find whatever excuse in the book to dismiss people who have valid criticisms and concerns for this games story. "Homophobic, Transphobic, sexist" or "not happy the game ended up how YOU wanted". Like what? I wanted the story to BE GOOD that's it. Nothing specific prior to knowing it was going to be a revenge story. When I knew it was a revenge story? I was hoping that it would execute a cliche storyline very fucking well...but it didn't. Simple as that.
@@UnifiedEntity I'm on the 4 to 5 side (more like 5) and I fully agree with both of you. I don't know why people get so religious about it, especially the 10/10 review bombers (which after the release far outnumbered the 0/10 bombers, that's why the score is increasing so rapidly, every day a .1 increase at minimum). They are the most toxic in my experience. They call you all those names (which is very f**ed up if you think about it) plus are like dogpiling for "How dare you hate our stunning and brave game which defies the industry!!"
@@UnifiedEntity You're confusing. You're saying its a 6-7 but then calling people who like it "fools." Are you saying a 6-7 on your scale means you didn't like it?
@@CerpinTxt87 Well, when you think about it, a 6-7 is the score of an average AAA game meaning they didn't like it because they were expecting something better than average. And I don't think they mean people who like it are "fools" for liking it, but rather fools for so vehemently dismissing anyone who has anything bad to say about the game.
I totally hate a game when it royally screws over what they established in the first game & not to mention the false advertisement... That is not subverting expectations, that is outright fraud...
I had no idea there were bait-and-switch trailers. I intentionally stayed away from any promotion for the game after that E3 that showed the dance scene.
I legit keep forgetting there are fungus zombies in this game. They feel do far in the background its like they're not even worth worrying about anymore
Devs: "Killing off a main character early will be subversive and make fans think we're great writers!" Fans: *Bruh Sound Effect #2* Edit: Calling it now, there's gonna be a Mass Effect style "true ending" that makes the actual ending just a dream/gives players the option to beat Abby with a 9-iron like she made an underwater city full of drug addicts.
Reminds me of what Telltale did with The Walking Dead season 2 with Kenny only to have him die immediately in season 3, it sucks how people think writing shit like that will make us think they're great, it only pisses people off.
Skywards Wolf There’s a new Star Wars trilogy? Isn’t the prequel trilogy like 15 years old? You talking about the only new star wars movie we’ve gotten in ages: Rouge One? That was a pretty good movie.
Seath misspelling it as “Rouge” actually gives the impression it was a bad movie lol. I’d correct it to “Rogue” if of course you weren’t being sarcastic on that bit as well. XD
this game is an exercise in Neil's ego. When the creator takes over the characters and the story that's what you get; a preachy and over-indulgent egoistical piece of crap.
This are his characters, he imagined them in the first place, so why would telling a story you like tell be egoistic. Btw, there's a whole creative team plus actors.
I have been too “scared” to even want to play this game. TLoU Part 1 was such a phenomenal story that everything I’ve heard about Part 2 has been a complete turn off, and that doesn’t even take into account that I was skeptical of them making a sequel from the start. TLoU should’ve been a one-off that opinion will never change for me even if I decide to dump 20 hours into the sequel.
Apollo Dawn You should play it to give it a shot. However it seems like you’ve already made up your mind, which is too bad. I went in with no spoilers and really enjoyed it. It’s a tough game to get through though and it makes you think.
Even if you did get it, it would be a waste of time considering your mindset and you wouldn't even get your money back because nobody is accepting refunds for the game. So, goodbye 60 bucks.
"It's less about the destination but more about the journey." From a thematic perspective I understand the narrative of the game, from a character development perspective of the game it took logical steps that were too great a leap to make decisions by characters seem rational or understandable.
All I remember from watching a streamed playthrough was thinking "So many flashbacks. I have never seen so many flashbacks in a game before" and "these flashbacks were more entertaining than the game." YIKES.
This is the most spot on Review of the game. This is EXACTLY how I feel point from point. Speaking with my friends, I've expressed these same exact points. Thanks for creating an articulate review going point by point. There were without a doubt so many problems with this game. Charscter development being the biggest in my opinion. I have a film background so I try to look at this story on a much deeper level. Bravo.
It's kind of sad that TH-camrs seem to be more reliable than the journalist themselves. If you enjoy the game great, if it's not for you that's fine too. I don't get what the problem is with just accepting an opinion.
Problem is people dont express their opinion on game, but their phylosophy and ideologies. This game recieved more reviews in hour than first game recieved in 7 years. Are you telling me tens of thousands of people finished this game in less than hour and gave the game fair rating of 0/10 ? This is crazy level of review bombing.
There's no denying the craftsmanship of TLOU2, but the story and characters just didn't do it for me.
Contribute to my channel on Patreon.com/YongYea or by clicking the JOIN button, and you can also follow me on twitter.com/YongYea for the latest updates.
TOP PATRONS
[CIPHER]
- Aiten Williams
[BIG BOSS]
- Brin
- Jonathan Ball
- Phil
- WECKmaster 329
[BOSS]
- Alex Moretti
- Charlie Galvin
- Devon B
- Joe Hunt
- Michael Redmond
- Peter Vrba
- Shepard Gaming
- Time Dragonlord
[LEGENDARY]
- Abdulaziz al Senaidi
- BattleBladeWar
- Gerardo Andrade
- Mark Taylor
- Theron Webb
- Yue
YongYea .
.
.
.
.
"I killed the man who killed my father"
"That's understandable, I suppose. Why did he kill your father?"
"Because my father was about to kill his 14 year old surrogate daughter"
"Oh... that's less sympathetic, but heat of the moment and all that..."
"Oh no, I killed him 4 years after the event"
"Right... but I suppose I can still understand pulling the trigger"
"I didn't shoot him, I had my friends pin him to the ground while I beat him to death with a golf club"
"Jesus, did he do something to provoke you at the time?"
"Nah, I was getting attacked and he saved my life"
"Fuck... I hope his daughter doesn't find out"
"Actually, she was in the room. I made her watch. His brother too"
"Wow. And how do you feel about it now?"
"Meh... it wasn't as satisfying as I hoped it would be but other than that I'm pretty OK with it"
Haha, send this to the Abby lovers and the fanboys who defend this trash .
This is pure Gold!!!
Abby: "Gosh when I say it out loud like that I seem like kinda an asshole..."
Well put, fucking hell...
@@trumpsfist6486 abby lovers are ppl with brain problems
and that is a fact
When I played TLOU I didn't kill the surgeon, I shot him on the foot, I deserve my parallel universe game!
You can do that? I thought it was mandatory to kill him.
@@Couch_Banana No you can't, it was probably a joke
@@Jfray252- I'm confused. Do you mean that it was a joke that it's not mandatory to kill the surgeon?
@@Couch_Banana even if he gets shot in the foot, he still dies
@@SoraSasuke27 Just like in GTA5
One of the most low-level mistakes that TLOU 2 made in the storytelling department is that characters are used (uncharacteristically at times) as tools to serve the plot instead of the other way around. Thanks for pointing that out 35:28
@@frogglen6350 she was moving from one base to another base in wlf territory. They got ambushed by scars.
She wasn't going on a mission. She's a doctor, not a soldier.
Frog Glen Yeah Mel wasn’t going on a combat mission. I heard Angry Joe trying time say this too. She was transferring and they expected no resistance. All of this is explained if you listened.
@@clayr6724 excuses
Frog Glen So the alternative is she can never leave the compound?? This is one of the worst nit picks I’ve read about this game.
Frog Glen There’s no point in arguing with you dude. The game explains why they are going and you’re just ignoring that. The first game was written by LITERALLY the same guy as part 2.
One game series that pulled off the "Father and Daughter" type bond and succeeded was Telltale's The Walking Dead.
Lee Everett is only playable for ONE, I repeat ONE Season; yet remains significant throughout Clementine's story and garnished a whole lot of Fan love for his character due to the successful writing of his character.
There is a shock factor in that story, Lee gets bitten out of nowhere. Yet unlike TLOU 2 it's shock factor contributed to one of the most heart breaking endings in Video Games.
Hey, Don't forget the Witcher 3 pulled it off well too. It may have been short but you could feel the bond Geralt and Ciri.
fuck i love the walking dead telltale series. season 1 was magic in a bottle.
What's funny about the plot to this game is that it leaves you heartbroken, not because of what happens, but because it's such a transcendent disappointment and misfire from the original. It doesn't even feel like the same universe. It's so disconnected, it may as well have been a "What if...?" comic
familial bond is one thing… but somehow Telltale also managed to pull off the impossible and created a compelling child character. just think about it: in every other game Clementine would've been more a plot-device than a character. but in The Walking Dead she acts and is treated like an actual, believable human being.
Now imagine if Lee was tortured by some random person the audience doesn't really care about yet is being forced to and now clementine has to hunt that person down only to not do it at the end because reasons. I don't think they know that disappointment can also count as feeling terrible, which is what they were trying to go for with the amount of gore porn and bad edgy writing. It's also incredibly pretentious to assume people are just too stupid to understand the message behind the game. No, they do understand and they're calling it out for being bad.
Saw a good quote on reddit "it's a game about right and wrong, written by people who always think they're right"
It's originally from Japanese IGN i think
That's a shit quote, r/iamverysmart material
@@EcopiuM yOu ArEnT vErY sMaRt
@@EcopiuM Reddit is a circle jerk shit show anyway. Soon to go grow a a myspace-esk death due to the negligance the site takes on an hourly basis.
@@Zaffie- I agree
Gamespot has gone after Angry Joe for his review. They seem to be going after everyone and calling them sexist and racists if they give the game anything less than a positive review.
Modern game journalism in nutshell...
One batch of critics criticizing another batch of critics. There's your big scandal m8
I think given an unbiased review is totally different than a rant like Angry Joe did, he's just enforcing all the simps that already hated the game before released
@@franciscosilva2923 unbaised review he gave the game 6 out of 10 like what
@@franciscosilva2923 He played the game and pretty much hated it- I watched some of it, but you expect him to give it a higher score? So why would he, just to please ND who are total assholes BTW- give it a higher score than 6, I thought that was about the fair score for this game myself 6-7.... because technically it was really good.. story was a solid1 maybe 2.
UNBIASED= tell what you REALLY think, not bend the knee for some BS.
Story elements aside, the biggest tragedy of the game is how the infected took a backseat in the grand scheme of things.
That's what I was thinking when I was reading up on the leaks.
"Wait, Naughty Dog remembers this was a zombie survival game, right? ... Right?"
@@AeridesEntertainment Naughty dog: that's sexist
just background noise now
@@AeridesEntertainment yeah they Walking Dead'd it. This game had little to do with surviving infected. In fact those were some of the easiest sections of the game.
Rememebr when they were one hit kills
I’ve been told the excuse that Joel’s gone soft after staying in Jackson and that’s why his guard was down. 20+ years of instinct just doesn’t go down the drain like that. I’m sure there’s a system for recruiting people; hard to believe that they’d take anybody directly to their town,
Exactly!
Its not earned. They had all the spectacle and no substance. IMAGINE a game that still hit all these story beats, but flowed them flawlessly through dialogue and intelligent narrative. THAT would've been THE game to end the decade of gaming. the Pinnacle of contemporary gaming to lead us into next gen and vr.
Sadly, we got drucked..
Who tf told you that bs? One of the games writers?
@@Puppy_Puppington Fanboys of part 2 trying to justify the atrocious writting of the game lol
They could have talked to veterans who have returned to civilian life and discovered how combat experience completely alters their perception of danger even when they know they should be safe.
“WHAT?? AAAAYYYYAAAA AAAAHH ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???!!!” ~ Angry Joe
Legendary!
@SoBanked- Rude
FIIIVVVVVEEE MMMMINUUUTESSSSS
LOL
Purefoldnz Sales always go down the week after release. This isn’t new. Same thing happened to Uncharted 4.
"Everyone thinks they're the hero of their own story."
- Handsome Jack
That's one of the many truths of this world. Every side has a story.
Out of all people xD Handsome Jack
"Man, these pretzels suck." - Handsome Jack
Druckmann: "I'm a fucking Legend"
“Never Meet Your Heroes, Kid, They're All Dicks. Every Last One” - Handsome Jack
I wonder if Neil will have the balls to recommend this review on Twitter? He's so quick to recommend well written reviews that are positive that blindly praise the game, but doesn't say anything about the well written negative ones that point out the good and bad.
Sadly thats a huge nono, you can't criticize this game. You can't even criticize positive reviews without your comment or your opinion to be completely removed. Sucks that youtubers and even naughtydog itself can't take criticism.
A story about right and wrong written by people who think they are always right.
Nah dude. With his massive artistic ego and Sony's investors loving all the money this game is generating, they want everyone to focus on those lovely 10/10 reviews, it's a business in the end.
would any developer post a negative review on their twitter? i mean why would they? it'd be kind of bizarre.
@@imonefunkymonkey Cd Project says Otherwise
@@Celsius_Reloaded good for them?
I feel like a lot of people reviewing this (particularly the positive) have forgotten to take into account that LIKING a game isn't the same as a game being good, and HATING a game isn't the same as the game being bad.
This review was a really good and detailed explanation as to both the good and bad. As in, you know, an ACTUAL REVIEW.
Actually, liking a game kind of makes it "good". There is no objective truth regarding the quality of any piece of media. It's all subjective. What someone might find to be horrendous story telling, another will find to be clever subversion. I would love to stop the proving "right" of opinions and start having more open ended discussions about games.
But yes, you are right. This is one of the few reviews that is reasonable and fair in the way it approaches it's rating and critique.
@@MangaMarjan actually, a game can be objectively good or bad, or better or worse than another.
@@MrMah-zf6jk How would you measure that? It's not like there are scientific methods to find it out. You evaluate something based on the status quo, which is valued as good to begin with. I don't want to shut down people saying they find something to be good or bad but try to make the conversation about it more important than the mere statement.
@@MangaMarjan Well you haven't said anything either. First off, it's not all subjective. Get that shit out of your system! It is complete poison. Also, by your logic, disliking a game also makes it bad. You can't choose one over the other just because.
There are ways to tell if a story is good, like consistency, characters using logic, use of subtle hints, if there are contradictions, plot-holes, etc. It's true that a lot of the time people argue about story it will boil down to how they feel about someone/something, but every now and again people can be pushed back into a corner.
Same with game play. Check out Sonic the Hedgehog 2006, an extremely buggy mess with characters as stiff as hell and a repetitive creepy story that becomes really contrived. Some characters have broken abilities, others can't shoot straight without the camera wandering off, and sometimes you may just get stuck in a wall.
There is no official measurement, but would you really recommend someone a game this flawed in good faith?
You're not going to get me to agree with you that it's fine the way it is, or that anyone who does say it's good shouldn't have their other game opinions taken with a huge pile of salt.
@@MangaMarjan You can like Fallout 76, but it doesn't mean that the game isnt a bug filled, mtx fuelled, half-hearted failure of a creation.
There are objective criticisms of stuff that CAN be claimed as a negative, no matter what someone's personal feelings of the whole product are.
Examples are: Lack of enemy variety, lack of location variety, poor voice acting, poor game performance, poor writing, shallow characters, etc etc. You get what i mean?
My point is that just because you enjoy a game, doesn't mean there aren't problems with it, and just because you didn't enjoy a game, doesn't mean there isn't good or innovative things about it.
Hence the point about higher quality reviews taking both good AND bad into account, rather than just screaming about how bad it is, or just blindly acting like there's nothing wrong with it at all.
My main issue with the game:
The gameplay doesn’t align itself with the message of the story.
Edit: “reflect” might be a better word to describe it. But the point is the same.
How so?
What was that word that was used for the Uncharted games, Ludonarrative Dissonance? Where the story (or the main character's motivations) are at odds and can even contradict the gameplay where you get to gun down nearly everyone in sight and are then told that the villains are evil because they kill people..or something like that.
100% hard to empathize with violence being bad. When everyone wants to kill you for just showing up.
Revenge bad, violence bad
*Kills hundreds*
👌
@@PRATIK1900 Probably because you kill shitton of people for revenge only to get the "revenge is bad" message at the end.
My favorite is the interview with some of the devs about LoU 1, where they said cross-country revenge trips were too stupid for the plot.
Damn
Which one? Please do give give links. Need watch.
Gimme the link
Link please
You must be lying out your ass because you gave no link.
Such a disturbing trend in games and movies nowadays...flawless technical execution but absurd stories and characters. Makes me sad...
This , exactly 100% this.
I blame Kathleen Kennedy
Let’s just hope Ghost of Tsushima doesn’t follow that trend.
The progressive Western "trend". Japanese games don't care with "subverting expectations".
Heck, I even more appreciate Kojima's DS after playing this... "flawless masterpiece".
Yeah, it's all thanks to old G.R.R. Martin and his use of "shock value". The funny thing is, he is the only mainstream writer who knows how to use this narrative technique correctly. He uses it when it is impactful and makes sense, and this is because he is a dedicated and loves his craft.
But then we have all these other hack writers who think "shock value" is as easy as subverting expectations, so that is what they do in their movies/games. They use shock value without any skill, and it shows. The resulting stories from these amateur writers end up becoming examples of train wrecks in storytelling.
All these shitty stories are due to writers with ZERO TALENT trying to emulate the ability of an expert writer. It is an embarrassing fad in storytelling and needs to stop.
If the game started with Abby, and hid the plot twist that she was Joel’s killer until the mid section of the story, I think the story would have been slightly more tolerable
True. The sequence of events is very important. For example, you have scene A, scene B and scene C. From that you can create many different sequences, and most combinations will result in different reactions from the audience.
This isn't necessarily a bad or even original story but it's told in the wrong way. That and the kitsch with Abby is really hamfisted in my opinion. Your enemy doesn't have to be the best human on earth to be relatable or likable. I would even go as far as saying that most people I know don't find those characters to be relatable at all.
Then you'd have the exact same problem in reverse.
Then we would’ve been like, “why the fuck we playing as this buff bitch?”
@@AmuneMob16 I'm thinking you referring to her as "buff bitch" probably suggests this is YOU problem.
true I have read the leaks and I expected that the event would play this way
Remember when Everyone hate Jamie Lannister at the beginning for throwing Bran out the window? You all remember how he eventually redeemed himself?
Yeah, well, that didn't happen here
We also remember him throwing all that character development out the window in the season finale 😭😤
@@cortezsmith1244 what season finale? i thought they are still planning season 8
I dissagree but that shit is funny lololol
@@cortezsmith1244 Yea... that was. Fucking stupid. But so very game of thrones.
No i dont thought he deserved death til the end.
The way Naughty Dog wanted this story to impact players required the subtlety of a scalpel. Instead, they beat us over the head with a sledgehammer. It was just way too in your face to have any kind of impact like they were intending.
No, they beat us over the head with a golf club.
Hit us like a wrecking ball.
Butchered and spat in our faces
They did impact the whole gaming industry with Joel's death, so they nailed that.
@@Wesker12349 Yeah, ND made the TLJ of the gaming industry, they should be really proud for that
Yong Yea: Gives an honest opinion about this game
Sony: That’s too harsh bro
One has to stoop that low if Yong Yea's opinion doesn't match your own.
He should be expecting a Sony phone call from the PR department any moment now ... "Hey man, we saw you review, and ... hmmmm .. care to EXPLAIN YOURSELF!"
dudes, i don’t think that how things work
plus, as much as i appreciate people who do this kinda content, he is very shallow in his understanding of the game. (nothing wrong with that, i’m sure he must be 10 times more intelligent than me, but he totally missed the point on this one)
Neil: I am under attack by these homophobic reviews!!!!
@@Pueril_MM You care to explain?
As a great cowboy once said “ Revenge is a fools game”
U R COMPLETELY RIGHT BOY
Yup, and also said “LENNYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!”
That lovely cowboy is on your pfp
Indeed
@@feliphefall boah
Does anyone remember the scene in the Tombraider remake when Lara kills someone for the first time, and has a good cry over it, but scarcely minutes later once the game continues the player is sort of encouraged to kill enemies instead of ignoring them (of course I killed them, I needed ammo/resources and they were trying to kill me first).
So basically you ruined it because I was trying to avoid killing as long as I could 🤷♀️
Yeah from what I remember I think Lara nearly gets sexually assaulted by that guy before she kill him then like 2 minutes later it’s just basically ignored and now Lara’s a killing machine, it was so irritating
@@johnbrown7346 you shouldn't blame the player for something which the game allows. If there is the option to kill with no repercussions it's an issue with the gameplay loop not mixing with the narrative.
Yeah but she expressed shortly after that what worried her was how easy it was.
It wouldve been alot better if for the first chapter or so your accuracy sucks like its wavering alot. When you reload its clumsy and slow.
As the game goes on you without being blatantly shown, see laura reloading faster and easier. And steadying her aim more easily.
That wouldvd shown the shift much better
12:22
At a certain point it just sounds like
"Oh my God! They killed Kenny!"
"You Bastards!"
Lol nice comparison
WILSOOOOOOON
Oh no! Anyway
“Where’s Stan?”
"They killed Lancer!"
"You aren't human!"
Thank you for drawing attention to the fact the character deaths in the first game had more meaning and were drawn out to allow the player a chance to absorb the meaning/ feeling of their deaths and how it affects the other characters.
Sam and Henry's Death's hit me hard...
They wanted it more grounded and unexpected. Jesse's death was honored many times after in the epilogue. Anything can happen at anytime, they don't magically miss or shoot someone in a non vital spot in TLOU.
@@iskoconquers They are my favorite side characters. Even tho they left unexpectedly (if u play for the first time). In TLOU II, the side characters werent much of a focus but in-game dialogue/actions did have meaning. It would have unnecessarily long to focus more on that side stuff.
Different main writers. Neil is just not as good as thw first writer (forgot her name)
@@cyanprince00 but the thing is I didn't care as the player when any of these new characters died. When Henry and Sam died in thr first game, it was sudden and jarring but I actually felt something in that moment. But in this game, it felt cheap and played for shock value. And in Abby's storyline, I was actually happy when her friends died because this game failed making me empathize or even like them.
The first game had a story to tell. The second game wanted to teach you a lesson.
Just get her a left-handed guitar.
Get the one at the cinema or one from Joel's work shop and flip the strings.
Even with a left handed guitar (Not to mention the thinking over) will not solve the problem. When pulling(? I dunno the Eglish word for it) you still need all your fingers, sadly.
There was actually a famous jazz guitarist named Django Reinhardt who had two unusable (burnt) fingers on his fretting hand. Didn't stop him.
Two words: Django Reinhardt.
Or some rudimentary prosthetic fingers, like the one Ada wears in The Piano.
"Nah, you're just a manbaby who is mad that you didn't get your fanservice."
This is literally how ridiculous the defense of this game gets.
The game does have strong sides and redeeming qualities, but you will find very few of them in the story.
❄️
I loved the game. Said it on Twitter and all i got were man babies telling me i was a shill a cuck bla bla bla. There's an overwhelming amount toxicity from those who disliked the game, even if you say you liked the game. Fuck these people lmao.
@@Astroghouls There is about as much toxicity to those who disliked the game from those who liked it.
@@Oriaks why it's hard for me to enjoy anything. People accuse games of becoming political on both sides only to themselves make it political. Then before you know it someone hates your guts for liking something they haven't even bought
As someone else already stated, this game has been getting review bombed like crazy by morons who have clearly never played it. This criticism goes both ways.
This review gave me more of an emotional response than the game itself.
OHHH I feel you. if not only for the opening with the scenes from TLOU 1 made me feel sad though as well. Sad to realize what we could have had if only Neil would have had any writing talent
All the reviews by honest reviewers are more entertaining than the game.
@Chase Miller I believe Bruce was critical in pulling Neils head out of his ass during development. Unfortunately it was just too far up there this time around.
@@Perrylayne105 Oh well, if you *believe* then it must be true. Never mind the fact that the TLOU1 ending was all Neil and clearly a significant section of the fanbase completely missed the point of it.
The graphics - 10/10
The story - 1/10
The memes - 10/10
Make it atleast 2 out of 10 fingers.. ✌🏻
@@jvinsantos6861 * -2 fingers
If I’m being honest the story was more of a 3/10 for me. It was shit but it wasn’t complete shit
@@wienerschnitzelislife6070 a 3/10 is still shit, not complete shit.
Graphics 9/10 too
I wonder how many Joels Abby's killed until she found the right one..
She knew what he looked like, she knew he had a brother named Tommy, she knew he was in Jackson
@@Johnny_JD no, no, lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala-
The claim that Druckman based his lying trailers in Metal Gear Solid 2 proves Druckman has no idea how to handle a story. Yes, it's true that MGS2 lied about who the protagonist was, but the game revolves around the theme of people being misinformed and lied to by the media. Having a trailer that lies about the game's protagonist _was the whole point._ It wasn't just trolling, it was meta advertisement about the game's very obvious meaning. Druckman doing it in a game that has nothing to do with that theme is no different from an action movie sneaking slo-mo scenes only because they look cool, with no regard for how they could fit into the narrative.
Naughty Dog games have always been about the characters. Their stories have always been, at best, pedestrian. And that includes the original TLOU. Having the story be more important than the characters is a mistake when you can't write a good story to save your life.
The uncharted games and TLOU story's have been told literally a millions times in games and other media. It's the connection to the characters that draw us in and make them feel special.
How many apocalypse/zombie films games comics TV shows have you seen a story resolved around a possible cure? How many action adventure films tv shows games have you seen around a treasure hunter? There are thousands. But it's the characters that make naughty dog games better than what they are.
@Marcin Jechorek Your point being? You didn't cry because of the story, you did it because of the characters. Alternatively, you might just be a crybaby who cries about everything, I don't know you. But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you aren't. You can't just get sad for characters you don't care about, no matter what they go through. The story doesn't make you cry, the characters do.
yep.
No, that's wrong
Until MGS 2 Substance came with special non canon missions like Snake Tales playing as Solid Snake screentime 😅
Yong: criticizes the game
Sony: blacklisted
dude definitely has more to lose now especially when he's pursuing VA career in LA. I say he better of join a legit merit passionate people like Amy Hennig.
Not to mention, Sony owns Kojima now. Yong really puts his lifeline and his fanaticism for Kojima to give a honest review on this despite will be blacklisted from accessing his favourite creator.
Croz Raven that’s truly the sad part.
I really hope it doesn’t get to this
@@defaulted9485 we've won, but at what costs?
Ever since Andromeda I've never been hyped up for a game. Whenever I keep my standards high, I always end up disappointed. I wasn't looking forward to part 2 but was quite intrigued when I heard that there was going to be a sequel since I played part 1 and the left behind DLC a few years back. I've also played all of the entire uncharted series and enjoyed it very much. It sucks how a company who's done nothing but produce quality games and had such a great community can throw it all away with just one game with terrible storytelling. Sorry if I come off as rude, I know there's people who genuinely enjoyed the game so just ignore this comment. It's just me ranting
Same, the only thing I’m hyped about and actually preorder is Cyberpunk
PeaceFul Loki Well, have you heard of doom eternal🤠 now that is a game that didn’t disappoint
I personally loved Andromeda despite some issues. A major bonus of Andromeda is I didn't have to deal with Tali being on my crew as I could not stand her and I genuinely enjoyed the team in Andromeda more as most of the team members in the original trilogy were just cliché personalities. I did miss Garrus though.
Also felt people were too hard on the story as let's be honest the original trilogy is far from a master piece in story telling. Very cheesy in a lot of moments and trying too hard at points to be edgy. Don't get me wrong I absolutely adore Mass Effect 1,2 and 3. But there were a lot of things Andromeda did do better.
But hey its not for everyone.
@@RadiumBadger ME1 is one of the best examples of story telling and world building in any video game ever, sadly the rest of the game was dated even for its time(combat, ai etc...)
nah the game was dogshit u got nothing to apologize for
This is the best review I've seen of this game. Good job
Legit the best review of the game there is, and ever will be.
Damn, Miracle of Sound, didnt expect to see you here. Y'all make some fucking awesome stuff. Just wanted to say thanks for all the content you've made. Keep being awesome.
nah, Dunkey, Scott Tailford of WhatCulture and Andy McNamara all had better, even Girlfriend Reviews had a much better review 😂
@@lac22lac40 Dunkey and Girlfriend's were terrible, what are you talking about?
@@GigglingStoners they were probably blindly positive reviews. Cuz any critical points obviously make an argument against something someone likes invalid and bad, right?
I already said this in Twitter, but I'll said it here, apologists say: "If you didn't like the Story you didn't understand it"
Bullshit, the story is so elementary that it may as well be written with crayons.
The game is not terrible, but is definitely not a masterpiece, a solid 7 in my opinion. But that's it.
Play once and move on to something else.
This, exactly 100% this.
Yeah, I liked it a lot, I’d give it an 8.5 but it’s not that people don’t understand, some people just ignored it, cause to me it’s obvious so many people didn’t play the game cause I’ve heard people say shit that is just, wrong, like someone was trying to say he saw a full play through, so I asked how long the game was and he said 7 hours, the game with cutscenes is 20 hours, half of it is cutscenes
I actually enjoyed the game, the setting and graphics really stand out to me.
Still shocked that this runs on a 2013 console. It's a technical marvel.
But I would agree with your score, it was a solid 7/10 for me when you add everything up.
I think the game is a 10/10. That’s my opinion. I can’t call your opinion dumb and you can’t either. The story isn’t complicated to understand, simply its the direction the writers take the story in which is heavily contested. Some will love it and some will hate it and that’s the case with every piece of decisive storytelling.
For me it's easily a 9 and that's mostly the story. I think there really is a surprising amount of depth to the story and some parts are left vague for the viewer to have their own interpretation.
I really think if the game wasn't leaked and then then repeatedly spoiled by youtubers in the weeks leading up to launch there'd be much more positivity. Still some controversy though on account of Joel's death.
“If you don’t like the sequel, it’s because you hate all women and gays.”
~Game Journos~
literally no one
Who said that ?
@@dylana.9057 the metacritics
I guess I'm sexist 👌cause I hate this game lol
Neil literally should that
"Inspired by MGS2s Marketing" did they miss the part where people hated that bait and switch?
Did you miss the part where that was the point?
get wet gary the point was to make people hate it?
But MGS2 didn't kill solid snake. It made him very likable, actually.
the themes of MGS2 also fits in with the bait and switch more especially when seeing how the game towards the end turns out
When Elie was drowning Aby, Aby screamed "Martha"
lol
😂
Why did you say that Name!!!!!!
@@ProsecutorValentine Batman v Superman.
@Ice Batman's mother
It's weird how all the high profile critics have sworn blind this game is nearly perfect but more reliable sources say the writing and pacing is a mess with ever so slightly better gameplay than the first game. I'm really sad the plot of this game is so lacklustre. The first game was almost perfect and has been in my top 10 list since it released. I'm just going to pretend this one doesn't exist, or play it in 5 years when it's a ps plus give away.
What makes the story lackluster?
Is not a Terrible Game , but i didnt live the hype. The first one is Better And a Masterpiece this one is only good
It's almost as if people can have different opinions
@@Deathgaze1 no one said they couldn't. It's the big contrast in opinion that's interesting.
@@porcudini6979 did you watch the review?
This game gave me an actual headache, about half-way through I just wanted it to be over. It wasn’t fun, I didn’t look forward to the cut scenes. When I played the first one, I got excited every time a cut scene started, as I got closer and closer towards the end of the game I felt sad knowing the story was coming to a close.
Short story long, TLOU 2 was a complete letdown and I would rather the game have never been made, as it soured my memory of the characters from the original. With some of the cutscenes being changed mid way through development, I blame druckmann, I wonder if they have enough footage to make a directors cut to change it just enough to not suck.
"There was a sequel....it wasn't as good."
You hit the nail. That is my sentiment regarding this game. One of my friends bought it and play it. I saw the spoilers and refused to do it, but friend wanted to avoid them. When he finished it we talked about the game for over an hour, and we came to the conclusion that it was not as good as the first one, yet it was good. I truly believe the game is good. Yet, still not as good as the first one. My friend told me to play it regardless since it is still worth it, but for me what is the point. Why would I play something that doesn't live up to it's legacy? I think the true tragedy is what you just said.
It is good, but not quite.
@@gilbertoperalta2172 I agree with your buddy. It's definitely worth playing through for the experience, and those subtle things that only you will notice and take from the game's beautifully crafted scenes. The first one is masterful and better, but this was still a great game. A mirrored emotional rollercoaster that exposes the deep flaws in each characters but also shows them at their best.
@@W0lfStride Not buying it.A sequel has to reach certain expectations.
"There was an overused joke... wasn't as funny as the first time"
I removed it from the games rental sservice that I use. There's no sequel.
AMAZING review. The most professional, carefully considered review of a game I’ve ever seen. If Naughty Dog wanted to make better games in the future, they’d have this playing on repeat in order to enhance narrative structure, pacing, and balancing aspects of their future games to come. Thank you
Both this and Angry Joe's review were spot on. Also, Upper Echelon Games did a good review.
They won't do that. They'll just take the 10/10 into account and make something worse because there will always be fanboys to drink their piss.
This is more of a plot synopsis then a review. Then again, what do I know? I am just a simp
@@hond4h34d Because you cannot give a critical review unless you CYA with basically a plot synopsis and point-by-point reasoning of why the game fails in some respects. Did you play the review at 2.0x or something and just miss all the injection of why the plot failed at points?
@@hond4h34d cause the games focus is story. It failed at exactly that point. Now Yong had to explain the story to say where it failed.
This is the most holistic review of the game I've watched, and I completely agree with you. Very good review.
Here here
This is why I like Yong's review, always open minded but tells those flaws most player feels.
Remember when Arthur stole the show from Marston and everyone just wanted to play as John,
That worked out in the end
RDR2 was trash! Arthur was boring and had no real purpose unlike John. RDR2 could have had character customization for all Arthur mattered
@@stefanhatcher6486 splish splash your opinion is trash
You are the minority. Everybody loved arthur delusional.
Nobody cares get over it
Yeah and even though marston stole the show, I still enjoyed playing as Arthur
Stefan Hatcher, I'm sorry but Imma have to disagree with you. RDR2 wasn't perfect but still was a good game
Stefan Hatcher damn first time I’ve ever seen someone say that lol. Is this bait?
The Walking Dead - “Man we wrote this series into the ground and lost so many fans!”
Naughty Dog - “Hold my beer.”
Is negan still around in the series?
If you think they wrote it into the ground then you obviously haven't played it.
GayGay Abrams I think so. I stopped watching 2 seasons ago
GayGay Abrams he is and he’s honestly the best character on the show right now
@JMC #1 Is that true?
Also are we going to be playing as Abby in a future installment if there is one? I'm wondering if Neil Druckmann has written himself into a corner with this game's narrative?
"It feels like themes take precedence before believable and compelling characters"
MauLer fans:
- First time?
Who is mauler?
gregorio massa movie reviewer who got famous destroying the Last Jedi. He made an incredible Review of that movie and Star wars sequels.
@@gregoriomassa8529 the long man, hate monger of the toxic brood, killer of ART and rags's butt buddy
@@arenkai slice and dice brother
Hey my fellow E-words!
First game: character driven. The events that happen in the story do because the characters' personalities justify their actions.
Second game: plot driven. The events that happen in the story do because the story demands it, characters' personalities be damned.
When people say they don't understand why so many are negative towards the sequel, it's because they haven't taken a second to analyze something so simple.
Well said. Tommy is like the perfect example of this. No time spent developing his character yet having him change his mind only to serve the plot. With better writing and background information, you could imagine how he arrived at his different choices, but none of it was shown, so he just comes off as bi-polar.
Personally I don't see that at all. The second game was all about people acting on their emotions and often making mistakes.
I agree. Alot of things happen in this game for the sake of the story, but it's not earned because it's at the expense of how characters would naturally act. It's non organic
Characters of first game are not same in 2nd part of the game..
@@imonefunkymonkey That's fanfiction. The game rarely if ever acknowledges such a thing.
One thing I didn’t understand about the game was: how did Dina give birth to a completely healthy child while she got shot in the first day in Seattle, moved, jumped, lost a lot of blood and got the hell beaten out of her?
She couldn't be more than a few weeks pregnant anyway. The kid would be fine.
@@BenReillySpydr1962 She was in her first trimester, during this stage the fundamental systems of a new organism are formed. Getting sick or injured could be more dangerous to the baby's health than during later pregnancy stages. Getting shot and cut would be worse, because any medication she takes can adversely affect the featus.
@@fatim0nster
Pregnant Women hate themselves in this Universe.
Speaking of pregnancy, why the hell would they allow a fully pregnant woman (Mel) who's like ready to give birth any day AND is a medic go out onto the front lines? If she snuck off on her own that's one thing, but they straight up just let her
@@BenReillySpydr1962 The game didn't even answer how did they all got out of Seattle back to Jackson alive. ESPECIALLY WHEN TOMMY GOT SHOT IN THE END
Tommy had already mentioned his name and Joel's to Abby after they saved her from the infected even before they got to that room full of Abby's gang. Still, pretty unbelievable that Tommy would just spill their names on impulse to a stranger like that given he and Joel's past.
Exactly makes no sense whatsoever considering their history in the first game...
Revenge is a fool’s game. -Arthur Morgan
Nice, Arthur i have a plan!
LENNY MAH BOAH
And yet John went ahead and killed Micah
And then John got killed because of it
And then Jack killed the man who killed John
And then loop goes on
Rest in peace Arthur Morgan
The whole point of revenge being a key point in RDR and TLOU is that it never never ends. Hell for all we know Jessie and Dinas baby could go for revenge for his father somehow
An excellent and spot-on review. Praises exactly what deserves praise, calling out what deserves calling out, and overall highlighting this game's biggest flaw: a story so focused on revenge that somehow doesn't understand it's own message.
... did you just review a review? If so I give it 10/10
You perfectly described a 46 minite review in a single sentence, hat's off to you sir! Well said.
This is a great review, so is SkillUp's and journos were mad he didn't praise this game as they blindly did. Oh and Angry Joe, he was mad at it.
Definately a very good and professional review however there are points of view here that are completo wrong from yongs view l, like many other don't understand. The story is better than most people say due to each one's will to be entitled
@@andyespinozam In skillup's review he hardly mentioned sound or audio design and included some incorrect information about skill trees and the number of boss encounters.
He did however compare it to both GOT S08 and the last jedi and then he celebrated the review bombing on his second channel. All in all not his best or most thorough review lol.
This game was made the same way I would write an essay at university. I'd write sections at a time and think I'm making amazing critical points, the structure is perfect and nailing an amazing 1st class pass. I would link them up thinking that the overall structure is great, I wouldn't proof read it or ask anyone else to read it and just send it off. It was a mess... and after re-reading it after getting my mark, seeing all the structure flaws, spelling & grammer mistakes and realise that a majority of the points I thought were amazing weren't even fully fleshed out in the essay, I'd be jumping all over the place.
I'm reminded what my professor said to me when I brought up this problem and the block I had when writing essays. She wrote to me in an email: "when you write, you have to imagine the person reading it has never read a scientific paper before and they have no knowledge on the subject. Explain more, take your time and once you've introduced the concepts and terminology slowly, begin to pick up the pace and change gears gradually. Once you've established a stable structure then you can go fully into your usual style. Always carry a forward progressive momentum like you're changing gears in a car"
Once I did that my scores improved dramatically and I found my own work easier to read. The change from writing parts a time and throwing them together just doesn't work for a coherent piece of work that's trying to build to a reasonable conclusion to a topic now.
To me It seems that naughty dog had their own in-house testers and after playing and watching the game over and over at different sections, were blinded by the flaws. They didn't get someone to proof read the written plot and didn't get outside testers to flesh out and openly discuss the critiques of the game.
Relating to the last part, they were probably some in house testers who did see the flaws of the game but maybe was worried that they might get 'cancelled' or just called "not able to understand the complexity of it'
I hear they actually fired some testers for... criticizing it...
@@user-dj9iu2et3r No he really didn't. If he had really shown people the overall script, they would have not only pointed out the flaws, but actually given better ideas to improve what he was after. His whole "Revenge is bad" storyline was undercut by his own writing. If they wanted to tell this story, then it is a failure from start to finish cause it comes off as pretentious.
@@user-dj9iu2et3r Cause intolerant people who cant even handle being told "What you wrote is really a mess" would get them cancelled. Neil is a thin skinned person, how do you think he would act towards a tester who pointed out this was not good?
Dolomaticus He did play test the game. In fact, testers not liking the characters led to many rewrites and reshoots. There was a story of one focus tester who got fired because they were being a bit of a dick with some rather sexist remarks; but that was for Uncharted 4 I believe. I don’t particularly like the story, but Druckmann definitely play tested the game and made some changes. It just seems those changes weren’t enough.
Neil: How dare you YongYea?!
Sony: blacklisted
IGN: hah! You don't want money!?
Man you guys really are going hard for this "the reviewers are paid shills" angle
The problem is that they're way too forgiving when it comes to these kind of games... They're not treating or criticising these cinematic games as hard as they should like other mediums such as movie industry. And on top of that they want to brag and show off to their peers that how much of an artistic sense and taste they got, they're willing to go any length to be taken seriously, and also add Sony's blacklisting thing to it... It's just fucking embarrassing man. 😔
@@rashidtorn3709 It's common knowledge if you give a critical or negative view from a AAA developed game the publishers will usually black list you. For places like IGN that does mean a loss of money as they do advertising deals and early previews for such games on the publishers behalf... Yong being independent is per say effected financially like a IGN or Gamespot in this situation. It can though get him black listed meaning he personally who does review or talk about gaming is hindered slightly to said companies that "shill" for the publishers. If you are unaware of this you don't particularly pay attention to the gaming industry at all.
@@rashidtorn3709 There's clearly some bias that everyone can see regarding games like this. you don't see "reviewers" fellating Doom Eternal this fervently.
@Rashid Torn It is not that they are "paid shills", it is that they still want to keep their relationship with these company to get their reveiw copies, so they are the first to rate the anticipated game. The problem with that is they will highly praise the game and not list any problems(which this game has many) and give perfect scores to please these companies. This is why places like IGN, Metacritic, Gamespot and other "professional" reviewer sites have become jokes in the gaming industry. No game should have perfect scores, very high maybe. This game has divided the fandom, like the last jedi.
They forgot about the bond that made the first game so amazing, they wanted to be as controversial as possible but they threw away good writing just to make it happen. Don't get me wrong the game looks amazing but, naughty dog just destroyed what they spent so many years to create, believable characters and story telling
Same. The key to the first game and even Left Behind, was the bond between the person you were with.
For me it was the writing and believable characters that made me stick with it and by the end I was blown away. That's just me though.
Sounds like the one who leaked game info from the studio knew this.
@@deandane589 sounds like they spoiled some of the most exciting parts of the game and then when people played it those parts were kind of underwhelming.
It just feels like they kept putting the characters through torture porn so they could make the gamer feel more and more shitty..
I think that in the pursuit of more and more violence the characters keep getting less sympathetic and more sad.
I mean it is a gritty and dark Apocalypse game though. I know there was alot if enjoyment in some sections of the story where some characters got revenge or two characters connected.
Wtf, that's kind of the entire point?
Bad shit happens in real life, even more so in an apocalypse. I'm glad they had the balls to make this sort of game. Someone had to.
I'd argue that they probably should have had more high points just to counter the depressive points, if only to compliment the two, at least with Abby's side.
Alex Bristol - that was kinda the point of the game.
A. Smith this game needed no sequel. If they wanted to make a game like this then they should’ve made it as a new IP.
You should do more game reviews, this was an excellent insightful review
I was a bit nervous when I was about to watch this review, I always trust Yong, although I was a little worried that he was going to blindly praise the game and ignore the flaws like most of the pseudo intellectual game journalists that really just write these reviews to get pats on the back from their peers, instead of actually reviewing the game and helping consumers make a purchase decesion. I applaud you Yong, really admire your integrity. Amazing review
And the funny thing is, he's not even a dedicated reviewer, he's a news channel.
@@TheTraveler980 he's a fantastic writer and presenter, clearly put a ton of work and effort into this review.
Let’s be honest, most people don’t go to reviews to decide if they want to buy the game. They do it to validate their opinion of the game.
People especially wouldn’t come to a spoiler review ;)
If Yong had enjoyed the game and given a proper explanation as to why, would you be saying the same thing?
HenryTheGod This is correct. People want to think everyone agrees with them. Just watch xQcOW watching vgdunkey’s positive review. He just about loses his shit. It’s ok if people like or dislike the game. Not the end of the world.
I've been waiting for this
Me too
X attack
O relent
IT'S NOT OVER YET SNAKE!
*rips out saxophone*
No fair! I wanted to channel my inner Akihiko.
Every single reviewer that I trust has said this game was incredibly disappointing. Whomever it was who leaked the game is a goddamned hero in my book. He or she saved countless people from being swindled out of $60.
I reckon they got what they deserved... blantly lying/misleading people through false advertisement, marketing and treating fanbase like sheeps to milk money was and STILL is an unforgivable strategy. As you said that guy is a legend.
Lots of paid shill too, seen a review talking about how it cared about the environment 😂
@@nulfater Lmfao 😂😂😂😂
Sadly, it didn't seem to impact sales any. It broke sales records. Urgh.
Game sales are dropping sharply, while people are saying an 80% is normal I doubt the game will sell as good as the last one did throughout, a ton of reviewers and streamers saying the game was disappointing compared to the first ain't going to help Druckmann ether.
I feel like part two didn’t understand what people loved about the first game. The mechanics and shooting were serviceable, but the characters and story is why the first game is beloved. This game made characters from the first game worse and most of the new characters were forgettable or just bad. This story is just about pain misery and revenge. Mechanically and technicality it’s well crafted, but it’s a miserable experience that I did not enjoy and would not recommend.
Too much time spent on characters we aren't invested in
And how do you become invested in a character without, you know, spending time with them?
@@shldnfr
You could spend 50 hours with exactly these same characters, if they are still as bland, uninspired, unidimensional and just there for the shock value, no matter how much time you spend with them, you will never get attached nor invested.
@@giornogiostar3214 well said
shldnfr in the first game, we only spent a couple minutes with Bill, and just a little more with Henry and Sam, yet their characters had more meaning than any of Abbys friends combined.
@@TheWefikus I loved Bill especially. A true dang survivor.
This game should have been a part 3. The flashbacks should’ve been the focus of part 2. I thought this so many times while playing.
Samouser but wouldn’t that be worst ending a trilogy off poorly?
Nah
Frost No it could’ve been done well
@Lisa Lisa you know that when something is good, a sequel or triquel will come with it (cuz the budget is there)
I enjoyed this game but I agree that should have been a part 3. The ending for this game is perfect for a trilogy. This game introduced way too many characters. They were good, but they weren't given enough time for me to really care. The only death that actually got me was jesse's death. Jesse was really likeable and so was owen. I feel like owen was the only one who was logical.
This review is so clearly well-reasoned, measured, balanced, thoughtful, and (from my perspective) consistently accurate that I can’t understand how there is even one down vote, let alone 856. Anyway, truly fantastic job with this review, YongYea. You hit it out of the park.
Some people are just never happy unless you agree with them on everything smh
MIG 101 95% of people come to reviews just for validation. If the review differs from their personal opinion, they’ll dislike.
They cannot handle the truth.
I enjoyed the game and I loved how he justified and explained things he didn’t like instead of saying “Game bad, fuck neil druckmann”
This review is Amazing, incredible, fantastic, astonishing, outstanding... He pointed to us everything good and bad this game have.
The whole game just feels so unnecessarily padded out with the absolutely most oxymoronic narrative design decisions I've ever seen. And Neil Druckmann had the audacity to claim it as "challenging conventions." when all it did was pander to his writer's ego than delivering a cohesive character driven narrative ala TLoU1.
The whole gimmick they tried to push on forcing us to empathize with Abby just cannot and will not work for those who were already invested to the 1st game's cast.... It's a fool's errand from the get go. And the fact that they felt it's necessary to have her segment be THAT large of a chunk of the narrative only speaks on how desperate they are on trying to be "clever" when all they needed to do was to adhere to the K.I.S.S. principle... Keep It Simple Stupid.
TLoU 1 didn't exactly have the most intriguing of plot admitably, but the delivery and pacing was/is nothing short of masterful. It's the complete reverse in this one with characters being tools for the plot instead. It's simply disappointing.
You say the game doesnt defy conventions but then you discuss that you play as abby a character we all hated when we first took control of her. That alone defies conventions. Very few games ever force you to play both perspectives of hero and villain. The universal truth is every person sees themselves as the hero in thier own story. This game makes you play through both sides which is innovative.
@@TaylorFrye94 trying to justify villain's actions instead of making him/her evil just for the sake of being evil is very common in games, and usually works if writers are doing their job well. Sadly, in this game it wasn't the case. The only innovative part was playing for such a villain half of the game, but it couldn't replace proper writing.
@@lukenolin1105 Sadly, as much as I wanna share the sentiment on not hating on Neil, it's getting harder by the day with how pretentious he has been on social media.
Dude's remarks has been basically demeaning any criticism while lowkey patting his own back on twitter that it's like he wants people to be as apathetic as possible towards him.
@@TaylorFrye94 No..... it doesn't defy conventions... let alone being innovative.
Especially so when dual narrative with opposite parties have been done prior and have been done far better. Cite Halo 2's Arbiter missions, Warcraft 3, hell even GTA 5 comes to mind with how unlikeable/ conflicting some of the main characters are.
Better yet, if we're simply going to take it as parallel narrative, look at Nier Automata.
And yet all of them feel rewarding to the target audience despite their individual affinity towards any of the singular party present in the respective games.
What this game does is shoehorn unnecessary exposition for new cast of characters that bear little to no redeeming factor with how incoherent, inconsistent and illogical their narrative progression are which basically gave them 0 growth and just pads out the experience ergo waste the audience's time. If wasting the audience's time is what you consider as defying conventions then sure....
The universal truth is that a writer being a hypocrite to his/ her own supposed rule of thumb always leads to confusion and objective failure. Neil himself said that his rule of writing is that of "Simple plot, complex character", neither of which are competently achieved here let alone it breaking new grounds. To assume that it did is just sheer lunacy and ignorant grandiose.
Scoot McGroot
I see. I don’t follow Neil on social media, so I don't know if that's accurate or not. Either way, just think that in these situations the more constructive and less scornful people can be towards each other, the better.
Hands down the fairest, most thorough and thoughtful review on this game I've seen. You covered all the problems with the games narrative choices perfectly.
35:33 This right here, this is where the disconnect is between the people on both sides of the debate.
Right on
This whole game is bullshit ending sucked too.
Yup. I’m on the side that the theme was what drove the story and made me really like it. I could see why people hated it.
Another thing that made me OK with the ending was where the game was willing to go to set up future installments. Different factions, different cities, different main characters.
Aaron Z stfu Aaron
Revenge is Bad... Except RDR 2 did it alot better
Now that I'm hearing the full story of the game, I can see how lost the potential really was.
He tried to imitate Kojima... ended up imitating Metal Gear Survive...
Well, I don't have a high opinion of Kojima apart from the first Metal Gear 1 (& 3) for that matter. So I am not sure if the end result would have been better if he had successfully imitated Kojima.
@Shaka Bono I'll probably give Death Stranding a try one day, but I think that I'll enjoy playing it less than this one. Just the fact that I would have to watch an almost three hour long ending makes me roll my eyes. I don't know about the rest of the game, but something can't be right if your end sequence is longer than most movies. The more games I played from Kojima the more I thought that he is in desperate need of an editor who can tell him to shut up here and there and to trim down his stories.
@@malafakka8530 yeah for metal gear solid 1, 2 and 3 they had an editor to ring him in, mgs4 is really where you could start to see him without an editor and damn was that messy and long
@@ravenwhiteduck6460 I abhor Metal Gear Solid 4. I was like: where is the game? Is this all the gameplay that you are offering me?
It was one of the rare occasions in which I regretted buying a "game." I always say I watched Metal Gear Solid 4. I never say I played it.
@@malafakka8530 yeah hopefully he either makes movies or gets himself an editor to help ring him in, would love to get my hands on another mgs3
I can see why you took some time to get this video out, this definitely feels like one of the most polished reviews out there easily
I wish someone could show this to Neil and his team of writers and important people at Sony and Naughty Dog because they need to hear this professional yet constructive criticism.
This review is very well constructed, Yong is speaking very eloquently and is coherent in his statements. He points out the bad and explains the "why" so well but he also praises the good work that has been poured into this game. This is what constructive criticism looks like. Yong wasn't disrespectful in his presentation nor did he insult the creation of many talented people. He spoke like a person with experience in the video game industry and remained professional on his critical analysis of this game.
I, personally, agree with everything Yong has said in his review and was even surprised by some of the statements he has made throughout the video. It shows that he has put a lot of thought into this video.
More game journalists need to take note on how a true review is done and the companies need to learn to listen to constructive criticism even more, it will only be in their favour.
You are 100% correct, but I’m afraid they/he will not want to listen. In their/his mind they/he didn’t do anything wrong.
In my honest opinion, the writing felt contrived. I feel like this game was great in the technical department yet completely failed in the literary one.
It’s a shame that a game with so much potential could have told a great story, yet was ultimately let down by poor execution and felt like another dime a dozen revenge plot.
Be civil in the comments👍🏼
contrived in what sense? Can you give an example?
I feel really sad for all the hardworking staff in the tech and art department, while they just put out a lot of lazy written stories in games these days.
"masterpiece in the technical department"
Can you explain what you mean with this? The game play mechanics haven't changed in almost a decade and a game looking good in 2020 doesn't make it stand out.
Well said.
and that's the most insulting thing that can happen to a product, is if it had potential but was still squandered at the end 🙄
"you cut out all the build up and you're just left with the act like how are you gonna solve it. It kills any argument as to how two people ended up at that place."
- bill burr
This is one of the most soothing game reviews, if not the most, I’ve ever heard. Please do this again, even more, if possible. You have such an amazing voice, and amazing creative talent. Keep it up, YongYea, I appreciate you.
Since the studio never had any “plans for the future” like a part 3 or dlc, they could have done the game with dynamic choices. We decide who lives and dies, that would of been more impactful and emotional. And like yong said about killing dozens of strangers through the game I feel the game needed more work as for how stealth works, game pretty much forces you to kill everybody you just decide how quietly
It would’ve been cool if the dynamic choices or dialogue would change depending on how many enemies you kill during the game, especially if you are skilled enough to go full pacifist too.
The whole point of making Abby and Lev was sequel fuel, they couldn't afford to lose that. I would've bought Abby's game if it was this game from her perspective. As of now, i dont care for anything the series holds for the future
AAA games don't take risks like that though, unfortunately
@@dtanobo bloodborne is stupid for letting you choose as well then? ND wanted to "break molds" and whatever. If you're going to make a game so focused on morals, why don't give the player the ultimate say on the matter?
Yup wouldve been a great gameplay mechanic besides, prone... and light jump
I don’t consider this so called “sequel” canon to TLoU 1 it’s just bad Fanfiction. TLoU never got a sequel and never will get a sequel that’s final.
Well that's just tough shit because it is. Grow up
@@rossmckeown8675 Someone's not happy about their precious little game being considered non-canon fanfiction by fans.
@@judge_dreddpool7593 Irony...
@@rossmckeown8675 The only irony here is you spouting "tough shit" "grow up" without accepting that someone can have an opinion that doesn't correspond to yours.
How'd you already comment an hour ago? U didn't watch his full review then.
The whole thing in a nutshell:
Us: why?
Neil: look how special I am.
“I think how much you enjoy TLOU 2 story does ride heavily on how much you enjoy Abby”
I think that’s about right. I felt Abby had some really redeeming qualities, but couldn’t connect as well with her as the game clearly wanted me to. Even understanding her character motivations I was still rooting for Abby to lose in the games final act.
@JMC #1 Cool strawman bro
@JMC #1 stfu
@JMC #1 given how his assessment is fairly reasonable and rational. I really doubt he is.
@JMC #1 Why? He/she only said didnt connect with Abby. There wasnt anything in his/her comment about hate or attacking voice actress. You cant accuse a person just with that. With your logic everyone who hate Abby sent threatening messages to VA, including me.
@JMC #1 lol gross. STFU.
*This is what I call an Honest review. You talk about*
- _The Good_
- _The Bad and_
- _The Ugly_
.....all to equal measure.
And that is why he deserves his fistfull of dollars
@@oaktree8500 and a few dollars more
So if I review the game and it’s amazing it’s not an honest review? At the end of the day people will hate it and others will love it. That’s how life is
Ex- Men it’s a split fan base. It’s amazing for some people but for others is not. It’s that simple
@@Luis-by7li Even if you think it's an amazing experience for you, you still have to address the structural flaws in the narratives of the game in order for the review to be thorough and honest.
You know I don't think the first game was impactful enough. Maybe if they had wasted 12 hours to make us play as the cannibal rapist in a desperate attempt to empathize with him it would have hit harder.
I feel like those things are not comparable
@@jordanintheflesh2589 They are.
You talking about the super creepy David from the first game? Apologies, I'm confused on what you're saying. Are you mocking this game for making you play as Joel's murderer or are you saying you wished there was an hour+ game play where you were David?
@@Zathren that was clearly sarcasm
@@Zathren I was mocking this game for making you play as Joel's murderer. GunNlazor was correct. It was sarcasm.
Just watched the entire video, Thank you so much for the well written review YongYea, Loved it
Damn, this is one of the best reviews out there on the internet and there are people whose jobs are solely reviewing games.
Definetely worth the wait, not everyone will agree with what you said and it's okay, but great work nonetheless.
MGS2 didn’t outright lie to their audience by swapping character models, so much as just hide Raiden from promotional footage.
Just saying, Neil.
Yes they did
It still count as a lie, you just think one is bad while other is good because you like one game and dislike the other, very hipocrytical.
JTtopcat Got a official video/screenshot that shows a Raiden character model replaced with Solid Snake during the Big Shell?
Bonus points if it was used as an ad.
Plus Snake was still there, still treated with respect. He wasn't killed off.
I honestly feel like Naughty Dog could be sued for false advertising. Didn’t some guy sue Gearbox for how Colonial Marines didn’t look like its initial trailer? I feel like they could do the same here.
5:36 I'm no snob but Neil clearly missed one of the many points of Metal Gear Solid 2's narrative and it's early character swap. MGS2's narrative could be summed up a few ways. To believe none of what you hear and half of what you see and to be wary of marketing or hype culture as it can be used to deceive or manipulate you and to not blindly follow or praise something just because their reputation or name wether it be the name of a person or the label on a box.
Coincidentally and ironically it doesn't help that he probably also missed out on what happens when you try to create context or control the flow of digital information considering all the illegitimate copyright strikes weaponnized against any possible or potential opposing views for simply not being part of their own gated off community away from the larger forum.
Exactly.
He is so shallow to think that what Kojima did there was just for the sake of surprise, it fit brilliantly and.
I say this as one who was very angry about the character swap, but ended up falling in love with the game and its characters, especially Raiden.
In the end, it all makes sense, and comes together naturally, unlike this mess.
Niel just overplayed his cards here, and tried something out of his league, unfortunately.
Yup. As a matter of fact, the ending of MGS2 when Campbell was talking to Raiden about how the Partiots will be collecting information, controlling flow, and recreating new context to sculpt society is the very thing Neil did.
The majority of people did not like the Surprise in MSG2 either, most felt cheated and never liked the game.
@ThatDamnScottishGuy Yeah that is true, but it did take a while to get there, I remeber the talk in the schoolyard and we all wanted snake which we sorta got with part 3, the later we all realized that part 2 we actually good.
I mean not everything Kojima touches is gold, and Hideo is way too self-indulgent at times. But I think he is a far better storyteller than Neil either way
The Jo*el/E*llie flashbacks were so good. The developers had magic at their fingertips, and they just threw it away. Such an incredibly arrogant, foolish move.
Why are their names filtered from the comment section??
This was definitely the most disappointing game of 2020. It had so much potential. And it’s still probably gonna win GOTY. Smh
It's got a good chance. I mean cyberpunk is pretty late so it may not have a chance. It's main rivals would be doom eternal and ff7 remake. Ghost might gey nominated too but I would be surprised if its a strong contender.
@@OmegaZeroX28 Cyberpunk's delay means that it isn't applicable for GOTY, which is disappointing, because even if CDPR didn't deliver on everything they promised, I think Cyberpunk would still win hands down.
lol GOTY is like Oscar. It is about who pay better for the media which holding it. The only GOTY I believe now is steam as it is more user oriented (you cannot nominate the game if you don't own them, and after that only user vote is matter).
GOTY amongst the "critics"
@@OmegaZeroX28 Probably not, due to delay. It's got to be Ghost of Tsushima or a sleeper hit
Sony and ND sure took a sweet time to release their game. Had it released in 2019 like they promised, it would have gotten completely mauled lol
Highly polished fan fiction. The game was made by extremely talented people, but written by someone who clearly doesn't understand good story telling.
Did he not write the first?
Why did they allow for this story?
@@Name-fd2co Indeed he did. Producing something of quality once, twice or a hundred times doesn't mean that everything created is of the same quality.
Blicious I agree, but saying he clearly doesn’t understand storytelling when he created, in my opinion, an example of the best story telling gaming has to offer seems unfair to me. I just think somewhere along the line he got too much air blown up his ass and thought everything he did would be perfect. And thus we get this mess. Hopefully he humbles himself, but his reaction to criticism seems to me like he won’t. He’ll always have the first game though, and that shows he has immense talent in there
If anything else, this game will definitely go down as the "Star Wars: The Last Jedi" of videogames.
Blindly loved by top reviewers and critics, passionately hated and fought over by the fanbase.
I give this game Two Fingers out of 5.
starforcenetwork Nice profile,can you send me the sauce?
Fuck, now I want to see MauLer make an Unbridled Rage about this dumpster fire
I think history will be kinder to TLJ than this game. Then again, when they retcon everything in TLOU3 who knows.
Yeah like the internet side of things. Otherwise plenty people enjoyed it, without trying to change others minds and try to objectively called it bad.
@@BoardWalkToke Maybe it was the main narrative writing by Hailly Gross..
Yong, this was a beautiful review, you were incredibly fair. And by the 9 lords, your narration skills are out of this world.
Hey yong, I will say this, honestly a fantastic and very professional highly detailed review once again you knocked it out of the park my friend, great review!! Btw screw those dogs!!
I did both a non biased review, and a rant about it..
It's such a polarizing title I felt it needed both!!
I admit I was a little nervous that this review would parrot what all the other critics are saying- There seems to be pressure to 'take sides' with polarizing stuff like this. Thankfully, Yong has more integrity than that. I appreciate the honesty without sounding like a hater.
Thank you Yong for an excellent breakdown and thoughtful, fair review. I hope that fans who liked/loved the game in good faith, realize that many of us that thought it's story was poorly written, contrived, full of plot holes, unbelievable coincidences, overly manipulative, and had contradictory characterizations, are not all trolls or bad faith actors, giving the game a zero. The two factions of fanboys with an automatic 10, and trolls review bombing with a zero along with toxic comments are both to be condemned. It 's a shame that those two groups taint the conversation from having a nuanced and intelligent discourse of why some of us liked it and some found it a massive disappointment after playing. The game was a technical marvel, improved the gameplay somewhat, and should be lauded for it's amazing accessibility features. However the story, the awful pacing, at times questionable level design, retconning of the first game, and turning our beloved characters into fools or monsters without the needed strong storytelling to make that acceptable, is what inevitably made this a 6/10 in my opinion.
It's a 6/10 maybe a 7 for me as well. But let's be real, the fools who like this game find whatever excuse in the book to dismiss people who have valid criticisms and concerns for this games story. "Homophobic, Transphobic, sexist" or "not happy the game ended up how YOU wanted". Like what? I wanted the story to BE GOOD that's it. Nothing specific prior to knowing it was going to be a revenge story. When I knew it was a revenge story? I was hoping that it would execute a cliche storyline very fucking well...but it didn't. Simple as that.
@@UnifiedEntity I'm on the 4 to 5 side (more like 5) and I fully agree with both of you. I don't know why people get so religious about it, especially the 10/10 review bombers (which after the release far outnumbered the 0/10 bombers, that's why the score is increasing so rapidly, every day a .1 increase at minimum). They are the most toxic in my experience. They call you all those names (which is very f**ed up if you think about it) plus are like dogpiling for "How dare you hate our stunning and brave game which defies the industry!!"
@@UnifiedEntity You're confusing. You're saying its a 6-7 but then calling people who like it "fools." Are you saying a 6-7 on your scale means you didn't like it?
@@CerpinTxt87 Well, when you think about it, a 6-7 is the score of an average AAA game meaning they didn't like it because they were expecting something better than average. And I don't think they mean people who like it are "fools" for liking it, but rather fools for so vehemently dismissing anyone who has anything bad to say about the game.
I love the game. But respect people would don't. Yet I am a fool. I hate the gaming community
I totally hate a game when it royally screws over what they established in the first game & not to mention the false advertisement... That is not subverting expectations, that is outright fraud...
I had no idea there were bait-and-switch trailers. I intentionally stayed away from any promotion for the game after that E3 that showed the dance scene.
I legit keep forgetting there are fungus zombies in this game. They feel do far in the background its like they're not even worth worrying about anymore
Well it’s not much of a zombie game really they are just there so naughty dog can say it’s a zombie game
what about the hospital scene?
So are the walkers in The Walking Dead.
Devs: "Killing off a main character early will be subversive and make fans think we're great writers!"
Fans: *Bruh Sound Effect #2*
Edit: Calling it now, there's gonna be a Mass Effect style "true ending" that makes the actual ending just a dream/gives players the option to beat Abby with a 9-iron like she made an underwater city full of drug addicts.
I might actually buy the game if Naughty Dog had the balls to make the ending you suggest.
Your comment is so so SO dumb
@angrytacos Hold on...what's this about a true ending to Mass Effect? I mean I know about the extended cut endings, but true ending?
With Neil Druckmann on the helm, I don't think so.
Reminds me of what Telltale did with The Walking Dead season 2 with Kenny only to have him die immediately in season 3, it sucks how people think writing shit like that will make us think they're great, it only pisses people off.
I liked the first game, I'll just pretend this never happened like the new star wars trilogy.
Skywards Wolf There’s a new Star Wars trilogy? Isn’t the prequel trilogy like 15 years old? You talking about the only new star wars movie we’ve gotten in ages: Rouge One? That was a pretty good movie.
[Everyone liked that]
@@paledrake Huh really, what am I talking about? Must have been a bad dream, my bad.
Seath misspelling it as “Rouge” actually gives the impression it was a bad movie lol. I’d correct it to “Rogue” if of course you weren’t being sarcastic on that bit as well. XD
this game is an exercise in Neil's ego. When the creator takes over the characters and the story that's what you get; a preachy and over-indulgent egoistical piece of crap.
You just gonna ignore the fact that he wrote the first game as well?
Luke Baatjies there’s also a 7 year gap your missing
@@LukeBaatjies-LBN4K but Bruce Straley was the director
Jackson May Bruce Straley more specifically directed the gameplay structure, while Neil wrote and directed the story.
This are his characters, he imagined them in the first place, so why would telling a story you like tell be egoistic. Btw, there's a whole creative team plus actors.
I have been too “scared” to even want to play this game. TLoU Part 1 was such a phenomenal story that everything I’ve heard about Part 2 has been a complete turn off, and that doesn’t even take into account that I was skeptical of them making a sequel from the start. TLoU should’ve been a one-off that opinion will never change for me even if I decide to dump 20 hours into the sequel.
Apollo Dawn You should play it to give it a shot. However it seems like you’ve already made up your mind, which is too bad. I went in with no spoilers and really enjoyed it. It’s a tough game to get through though and it makes you think.
@@clayr6724 A serious injury is also hard to go through and it makes you think, but I dont recommend anyone to seriously injure themselves
Went into this game without any spoilers either and man. I'm glad I did. Amazing game.
Even if you did get it, it would be a waste of time considering your mindset and you wouldn't even get your money back because nobody is accepting refunds for the game. So, goodbye 60 bucks.
Yeah, it sucks to see a TLoU franchise ruined by a stupid story.
"It's less about the destination but more about the journey." From a thematic perspective I understand the narrative of the game, from a character development perspective of the game it took logical steps that were too great a leap to make decisions by characters seem rational or understandable.
All I remember from watching a streamed playthrough was thinking "So many flashbacks. I have never seen so many flashbacks in a game before" and "these flashbacks were more entertaining than the game." YIKES.
This is the most spot on Review of the game. This is EXACTLY how I feel point from point. Speaking with my friends, I've expressed these same exact points. Thanks for creating an articulate review going point by point. There were without a doubt so many problems with this game. Charscter development being the biggest in my opinion. I have a film background so I try to look at this story on a much deeper level. Bravo.
It's kind of sad that TH-camrs seem to be more reliable than the journalist themselves. If you enjoy the game great, if it's not for you that's fine too. I don't get what the problem is with just accepting an opinion.
Jornos have an editorial and the editors are on the leash of the Shareholders.....
Problem is people dont express their opinion on game, but their phylosophy and ideologies. This game recieved more reviews in hour than first game recieved in 7 years. Are you telling me tens of thousands of people finished this game in less than hour and gave the game fair rating of 0/10 ? This is crazy level of review bombing.
@@Enkabard they don't need to play the game, the whole game was leaked on the internet beforehand
True. But if i say that God od War is trash cause i don't like the story than my opinion means nothing.
@@isaacnickel So i don't have to play Redemption to make an analysis? Just watch the plot online and that's it.