It's nice to see you are back on fm24. I only had time to play it now, had a real busy time this year and seeig that you are still making this good content is a joy. Keep it up:)
Hi, I think you need atk vs def tactics test at neutral venue as a control, otherwise you cannot derive a difference of goals or win chance between the two. Because there could be an inherent advantage of atk or def tactics. Such as brazilian box always have 3% advantage over the italian something tactics at neutral venue.
There were control tests on neutral grounds. Tactics were evenly matched there, and it was detrimental to use defensive tactic away. Below is the difference in points per match, considering 3 points per victory, and 1 point per draw. Neutral Att x Att: 0.01 Neutral Att x Def: -0.01 Neutral Def x Def: -0.01 Home A Att x Att: 0.43 Home A Att x Def: 0.65 Home A Def x Att: 0.49 Home A Def x Def: 0.55
Hey bud, me & Zaz have done these tests before. I have edited the Excel file (link in the description) to include those results. In the video I did not mention the neutral game results because the aim of the test is to study the effects of Attacking / Defensive tactics in away games. But as you've mentioned, the neutral match results are also relevant. In a nutshell, the Brazilian Box & Italian KO tactics were more or less evenly matched, when Team A & B used them at a neutral venue.
Thanks! Nice to have this fact down. Teh feeling in FM 24 has been that playing home is OP. I always attack away. If goin defensive its just giving 3 p away. Switch to def when up a goal could really be a good thing, very happy for that information. Will help alot!
Great video. I hope you will also investigate how the number of spectators affects the home advantage. The location of the stadium should also be taken into account. There was once a video (I think from second yellow card) that looked at how a team with a higher located stadium had a big home advantage.
Observation from your search: 1) The total amount of goals were significantly higher at the neutral ground. 2) Enough to conclude: It gets more difficult to score away than it gets easier to score at home. 3) Tackles success is worse on neutral ground than both home and away, possibly contributing to finding 1. 4) An observation from Cards received there is less tension at Neutral Ground. Assumption 1: Could "not playing at home" lower concentration? (as it concedes more goals) Assumption 2: Could "not playing at home" lower aggression? (as it doesn't get into certain battles) Assumption 3: Could "playing away" lower composure? (as it scores less goals)
Hey bud sorry for the late reply. Your conclusion 2 is feasible, especially for the away team. As mentioned in the video, I think away teams become a bit less aggressive/offensive in general, attempting less shots per match, leading to less goals per match. I wouldn't read too much into the number of yellow/red cards because the incidence is too low. Assumptions 1/2/3 are all feasible. I have 2 more assumptions: - During away games, player Morale is a bit lower, leading to generally worse performance - During away games, there is a penalty added to the dice roll when Consistency (x/25) is calculated. I've heard somewhere that before every match, a dice roll is performed to determine the value of x. Perhaps during away games the calculation becomes (x-3)/25 as a penalty? More work needs be done!
Good to have you back for the new game! One thing I was wondering while watching this is whether or not certain teams have a bigger home advantage than others because of, for example, size of crowd or even the make-up of the fan base. Do teams with a higher hardcore/core percentage have a bigger advantage than those with more casual/fairweather fans?
There is a setting to edit this as well in the pre game editor like for example the loyalty and hardcore of fans. I think it is very probable that both the type of fans and number decide the size of the home advantage but it seems as with everything with FM the difference is probably negligible compared to other things but we can't know for sure unless it's tested or SI decide to tell us anything about how the game actually works
Hey bud, I thought about that. The size of fans could possibly determine the degree of homeground advantage. Of course one cannot be sure without looking at the actual codes..
Here's a juicy idea: Set the away team morale slightly higher with the editor until you get close to the equilibrium again. If player stats and win rate both end up with both teams virtually identical, it stands to reason that homeground advantage really is a morale buff - one that might even be quantified.
Hey bud, I thought of doing that too. I am planning to do an episode on Player Morale in the future, so I might run some tests as you suggest in that episode.
Great video ! I've been wondering about this for a while. Some mental / hidden attributes might play a role in how much away vs home performance matters, like composure or big matches attributes
This is some nice content! The only question I have is if you did any tests when the home team had more CA than Team B, as trying to play a better team at their own game never seems to be successful for me in FM.
Hey bud, no I haven't done any tests when the two teams had varying strengths. It was important in the tests shown in this video to equalise the strength of Team A and B as much as possible. Don't lose hope, playing a team that is stronger than you is supposed to be hard in football, both IRL and in FM.
Thank you for the nice informations. I would like to see also affect of attendances, fan types, ground capacity, fullness of stadium capacity, condition of the pitch when considering homeground. I think I am going mad :D thanks for your efforts.
how about a similar test but with assumption that one of the teams is better the the other Is being the underdog and playing aggressive still giving better results then playing defensive especially away?
Ótimo vídeo como de costume, mas as conclusões sobre a tática defensiva podem ser vistas de diversas formas, primeiro que existe uma subjetividade do que seria uma tática defensiva? Posso usar uma mentalidade defensiva e usar instruções sem bola que agridem o adversário e minha tática continuaria sendo defensiva. O resultado dos testes me faz observar que é uma boa estratégia utilizar uma tática defensiva em jogos fora, e que o desafio é conseguir com essa tática defensiva, aumentar meu número de gols e ofensividade sem deixar de ter uma solidez defensiva. Seus vídeos são ótimos, uma pena eu ter chegado quando vc já estava se retirando.
Hey, first of all i want to say a big thank you for the amazing work you are doing and spreading knowledge to the fm community. I have a question or lets say a suggestion for a future video. I've seen a few videos debating whether you should put youngsters (up to 22-23) with just additional focus training and other videos that suggest role training is more beneficial at young age. Is this something that you could look into?
Hey bud, I don't have the answer to that question. People ask me about additional focus / role training all the time and it's an area that I've neglected 😅 I am currently doing a Matchday Mechanics series and I am planning to do an episode on Positional Familiarity - whether it makes a difference that a player is playing in his Natural Position. That video will possibly shed a light on the debate you've mentioned.
It would be interesting to test balanced vs attacking away from home. Ive noticed empirically thay attacking at home is OP but tend to go balanced away against strong teams
hey Max, great you're taking on fm 24 🙂 are you also gonna look at training again? also, SI said that players would reach their peak now earlier or something like that - would be interesting to know if "age" still works the same in 24.
Hey bud, Nah I think I've spent enough time on the training aspect of FM. I'd like to move onto other areas of the game. I think the devs did mention that players will now peak later, and will start declining later in their career. It is a sensible change, as players are retiring later, and more players enjoy their prime years in their early-mid 30s.
@@ebfm oh that’s interesting, I like that change. As for the training: understandable. It’s just, would be great to know what you’re doing, playing FM24. For example, I have gotten the impression that the new unit „set pieces“ doesn’t train set pieces….
@@andreasaust1510 there are already so many staff roles that have questionable usage eg. loan manager, sport scientist... now they've added another one, but I seriously question whether it actually grows the set piece attributes of your players.
@@ebfm Yeah, it would be so interesting to know whether the sports scientist actually has an impact on fatigue or if he only is there to assess the fatigue levels. And if it makes a difference to have one with 10 or 20. but you’re right, there are countless unanswered questions when it comes to staff.
Also, when is staff ever overloaded? You said it yourself, who needs a loan manager - can the DoF have too much workload? Or the sports scientist- do you need 3? Nobody tells you. What happens if one recruitment analyst works on 10 focuses - what even does the recruitment analyst exactly?
Great content. Just one comment. Italian KO uses high much more often press with much higher defensive line. I would have liked to the second test with actually defensive tactic.
Very interesting. One thing I'm wondering after watching this is whether the Gets Crowd Going trait affects (or is affected by) home-ground advantage. I wonder what it would look like to replicate these tests where every player on [Team A; Team B; both teams] is given the trait, along with a one-sided test at a neutral ground.
Hey mate, I haven't thought of the effects of traits. In my tests the players had 0 traits, because I didn't want to introduce an extra variable into the tests. Gets Crowd Going could definitely be more beneficial in home grounds, since there would be more fans in the stadium. It's something that I could look into in the future.
Great video, I am curious if mentality plays a role on matchday. If playing with defensive or cautious mentality would bring you more victories away from home.
Hey bud, I've tested this before, in collaboration with FM Scout (th-cam.com/video/pP7XlWcz4GE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sC3KPHiNRw1xw5Ok) Attacking Mentality leads to more victories compared to Defensive Mentality, all things being equal. So be more offensive minded whenever possible!
Question: does the attendance and the supporter type make a difference? Would be crazy but amazing if SI would implement such things. Btw i love your approach to the game, im studying statistics and its fun to see it in action.
Awesome, could you do a video where u use this defensive and offensive tactic again WAY better teams? I am curious to see whether defensive tactics improve chance to beat Liverpool or Man City as a Luton Town for example... Or actually Attacking has more chance to win?
Hey bud, I don't think the dynamics will change when you are versing a superior team. Of course, I can't know for sure unless I've actually run some tests.
Thanks for the tests~! Just very interesting to see ... Personal non-scientific theories on Home/Away matches - In the past, I read that the Russia teams would narrow their pitch to the smallest possible right before a CL match. Have been setting my pitch to Narrow ever since, even as a number one club in Europe~! 😅 So, at home, firstly I have the Home advantage. Secondly, the big teams prefer to play Wide, but even as a number one club in Europe, I play Narrower. Tend to do really, really well at home, ha. Then, for Away games, I go Attacking indeed, not even Positive. (Wanted ball turnovers so that I can counter the counter, ha.) Esp for league games. Rarely do I go Cautious, unless I have a red card. In Away CL matches though, I tend to start with Attacking for 15-20 minutes, and then see how it goes. If I got a (precious Away) goal, I would weigh the situation. Only when vs the biggest boys (and they get equal chances as me, then) do I go Cautious after 20 minutes. However, I noted that the League Familiarity is absent in CL or European matches, and it's much harder to get FM-ed if you are the much Stronger team (I did lost a final-16 round by hitting the post 7 times. So, the FM scripts are definitely still a thing, at least in FM20). I believe that is why I can win leagues for 20+ consecutive seasons, but I rarely get sustained CL success. It's about true firepower in CL, and I like to pick up bargains like a certain Arsene Wenger. 😎Fun fact - I won the CL in my 5th season, before C.Ronaldo finally retired from Zebre and then I won the league in the 6th season.
Hey bud, great to hear your story. I also think it is easier to win consecutive league titles, but winning consecutive CL is a lot harder.. I'm the biggest Arsene Wenger when I play FM. It's all about picking up those bargains and hidden gems.
one thing i wanted to add - you brought up how the statistics were wonky because it would show something like the pass completion percentage but not total passes. it might be due to Detail Level not being set to full or complete? i know when I've done my moneyball save and worksheet, players from the scouting pool from regions that don't have a certain level of detail level won't give me the micro stats like that
hey bud, ooh I haven't thought of that! I'll try changing the game settings and see if those stats are being displayed properly. cheers!
9 หลายเดือนก่อน
I think the intuition of what a Defensive tactic is supposed to be is leading players to assume that mentality is not effective. I often see people attempting a defensive tactic when both sides are of equal strength, and then they note that they win less matches playing that way, thus concluding Defensive tactics are less effective. But I'm not convinced of this. I think people are mixing "defensive" when what they really want is a "counter attacking, low possession" style, and they also seem to assume that the latter is meant to go together with the former. The question I would like to see tested is this: does a team which is predicted to lose a match by significant odds have a higher chance of holding the stronger team to a draw by using a defensive mindset? The second question is: are mindsets actually linear? They are presented in the game in linear fashion (from very defensive to very attacking), but perhaps it doesn't work quite that way, especially in regards to the cautious and positive mentalities.
hey bud sorry for late reply. yup, as you've pointed out, it's not always clear what a 'defensive tactic' is. In regards to your questions, although I don't have tests that address them directly, my guesses are: 1. No, attacking Mentalities are always preferable to defensive Mentalities, regardless of how strong/weak your team is compared to the opposition. I have done multiple tests regarding Mentality in the past, and a consistent observation I made was that Very Attacking Mentality always resulted in more goals/wins compared to Very Defensive, regardless of the strength of your team. 2. I do believe that mindsets are linear. I believe Mindsets, just like individual player Duties (attack/support/defend), dictate how likely players are to make forward passes or take shot attempts. You can tell by the way Mentality affects individual player Duties. Winger(support) will change to Winger(attacking) if Team Mentality is set as Attacking/Very Attacking.
Interesting that there is a home advantage in the game. Imo the difference in stats between home and away players doesn't need to be an indicator of some buff/debuff of the players but could simply show different tactical approaches to the game by the home/away team (e.g. more cautious or more possession based). The tests using 'attacking' and 'defensive' custom tactics from the internet doesn't mean much in my opinion as those tactics are usually made to break the match engine as much as possible and are all just very aggressive gegenpress tactics. If you look at the 'defensive' tactic all I'm seeing is hyper aggressive attacking football😅 So the low number of goals against is probably just a result of being even more dominant in possession. I'd rather try and test some pre-made tactics from the game itself, e.g. fluid counter attacking vs possession
Hey bud, I agree, I'm starting to think that home advantage is more a result of the home team being more attacking-minded and the away team being more defensive-minded. And yup the 2 tactics that I tested (Brazilian Box & Italian KO) may not best represent a 'defensive' or 'offensive' tactic. I will have to run more tests using other types of tactics.
I agree with the original comment. Maybe it would make sense to make use of the default tactics in the game. For example use the standard vertical Tiki-Taka against direct counter or something similar. Those tactics may not be super effective compared to what you find online but a) they represent the devs idea of what offensive and defensive tactics look like in the game and b) I assume that that is closer to what AI managers are using. Anyhow cool video as always!@@ebfm
@@Michi00600Hey bud, other people have made similar comments. I should have gone with other candidates that could more accurately represent an 'offensive' / 'defensive' tactic. Well, that means further testing will be required!
Hello, could you make in the future an experiment involving Physiotherapists? i often see myself wondering if hiring a 7th great physio makes any difference or if 15-20 physiotherapy is any different
Good video, thanks. Given that most matches don't take place at a neutral venue, that's a big swing in win chance for the home team. Is it worth doing some further testing on other factors that could affect it? I'm thinking player hiddens (pressure?), attendance, away fans.
So what constitutes home ground? Let's say my club shares a stadium. Who gets home field advantage? What if I'm renting my stadium from another team? Am I playing on home ground at the other team's stadium? Is any "home" game providing home field advantage?
Hey bud, it's an interesting question. eg. AC Milan vs Inter Milan - who is the home team? Didn't get a chance to investigate the question this time 😅 perhaps a topic to revisit in the future.
I don't think there is such a thing as home advantage per say. I think it's more the fact that teams that are away are too cautious while the team playing at home is more proactive. If teams were proactive both at home and away then the results will be different
Hey bud, it's a possibility that away team players simply become a bit more cautious. But I guess that could be considered part of homeground advantage too.
Hello could you do a test to prove if IA score more easily than human team like we all seem to live playing, like the first shoot on target from ennemy team seems always scoring, and the fact that terrible goalkeeper always seems better than your strong goalkeeper. It seems to happen too often to be just a coincidence. Thanks for the good job
Hey bud, I didn't notice the things you've mentioned (AI first shot always scoring, bad GK performing better than good GK), they are most likely to be just coincidences. If you are only watching 'Key Highlights', than it may appear that the first highlight of the opposition team will always lead to goals.
I watch my match in "mini resume" (so the stage just before the complete one) and truely even the baddest GKs in my league are always like Spiderman and my Gk since several opuses are still bad even xhen i'm buying the best in the game. For the first target shoot, i think i'm really not the only one, i remember someone who work stats like you made a test and proved the first target shoot in AI team has a lot better efficiency than our players. (sorry for my approximative english i'm not sure i'm clear enough for you). and even if it was linked to the highlight mode, it appears i have to target a lot more to score compare to opposante team
to be more accurate, the bad GKs seems to be Spiderman against me, like there was something to buff the GK of AI to make the game more difficult?the same from defensive behaviour, our team players behave like complete tourrists and ennemy team seems to be ready to suicid to protect their goal. I even saw AI def just made disapear the ball even being late, far behind the striker, and be able to take it back like they use a vaccum. It's amazing
@@philippefajardo4920 Your English is fine mate. It is strange indeed that first shots by the AI have a higher accuracy. I have no explanation for it. Perhaps it is a glitch in the game?
@@ebfm with the easier ability to score for IA and IA's GK in spiderman mode it seems to help to balance the difficulty to not win by too much marge. It can be really painful. Our french CM tell us "it's your tactic" but we can see wingbacks running side of IA attackers without acting, sometimes IA stricker can run in a straight line and defense open front office him like he was Moïse. I don't know how to prove it because it seems to be a ME problem happening while you are looking at the match and not when you are simulating
To be honest, looking at the defensive tactic I don't think it was the right tactic to choose for testing defense. It's a tactic on balanced with high line pressing, counter-press, segundo volantes in the middle. It's a high press tactic, one would almost say a gegenpress, disguised a bit by the shape of the formation. It's not a 'defensive' tactic irl. I'd argue you need same formation with similar roles, but on conservative, low line, mid block at highest, no counter-press, and maybe CM (D) and a BBM in midfield. All I'm saying is that the tactic selected to be 'defensive' may have conceded less goals, but it's due to it being a high press tactic, not a 'defensive' tactic if this makes sense. In essence you're testing one attacking tactic vs another.
Hey bud sorry for the late reply. You are right, it is difficult to say exactly what makes a tactic 'offensive' or 'defensive'. Some may argue that high pressing and counterattacks are some of the main hallmarks of a defensive tactic. Zaz and I chose Italian KO as a 'defensive tactic' because at the time it was one of the tactics with the least number of goals conceded, on FM Arena website. The tactic has admittedly fallen down the list a bit since I made the video. But like you said, I could have chosen a different tactic that purely focuses on defending and does not counterattack at all.
Hey bud, I haven't heard anything about home-ground players performing better than non-home ground players. It will be an interesting feature though if it existed that could add extra immersion to the game.
home ground advantage is justs tupid how OP it his , im going from not being able to get 3 shots agains Milan away , and beating them 5-1 at home its stupid and not fun at all.
I'm not sure if you have tested this before, but do the type of training sessions have an influence in the match? For example, if I focus on possession related sessions all week, will my team have more possession in the following game?
hey bud, I have done a test in the past regarding the relationship between set piece training sessions and the number of set piece goals. There was no correlations between the two factors. I have also done a video on the relationship between Match Preparation sessions and the match outcomes. Again, there was no obvious correlation. So my guess is that training sessions impact player growth, but do not directly influence player performance during an upcoming match.
Commenting for the algo, but just wanna say, I enjoy your videos but they take the joy out of the game for me. Turns the game into "optimize the match engine" instead of "pretend to be a football manager"
Wrong methodology and proper conclusions example. My tests show that Handicap for homegrown teams looks like to be included in AI algorithm of smaller range of final data results for each player behaviour choosed from tree decisions sets.
It's nice to see you are back on fm24.
I only had time to play it now, had a real busy time this year and seeig that you are still making this good content is a joy. Keep it up:)
Hi, I think you need atk vs def tactics test at neutral venue as a control, otherwise you cannot derive a difference of goals or win chance between the two. Because there could be an inherent advantage of atk or def tactics. Such as brazilian box always have 3% advantage over the italian something tactics at neutral venue.
Needs all 3 tested - atk vs atk, def vs def and atk vs def at neutral ground
There were control tests on neutral grounds. Tactics were evenly matched there, and it was detrimental to use defensive tactic away. Below is the difference in points per match, considering 3 points per victory, and 1 point per draw.
Neutral Att x Att: 0.01
Neutral Att x Def: -0.01
Neutral Def x Def: -0.01
Home A Att x Att: 0.43
Home A Att x Def: 0.65
Home A Def x Att: 0.49
Home A Def x Def: 0.55
Hey bud, me & Zaz have done these tests before. I have edited the Excel file (link in the description) to include those results.
In the video I did not mention the neutral game results because the aim of the test is to study the effects of Attacking / Defensive tactics in away games. But as you've mentioned, the neutral match results are also relevant.
In a nutshell, the Brazilian Box & Italian KO tactics were more or less evenly matched, when Team A & B used them at a neutral venue.
such a big work dude, you have spent so much time just to light us! thanks for the work! deserve more light on your channel
Thanks mate, more test results incoming!
been playing fm since cm 94/95 and i've never struggled so much away as i've been on this fm. tried everything.
Thanks! Nice to have this fact down. Teh feeling in FM 24 has been that playing home is OP. I always attack away. If goin defensive its just giving 3 p away. Switch to def when up a goal could really be a good thing, very happy for that information. Will help alot!
Great video.
I hope you will also investigate how the number of spectators affects the home advantage.
The location of the stadium should also be taken into account. There was once a video (I think from second yellow card) that looked at how a team with a higher located stadium had a big home advantage.
So glad you're back for FM24
I noticed the trait 'get the crowd going' really works in Home matches as well.
love the empiric approach
Yes - he’s back! Been looking forward to the FM24 content 🙌🏻
Return of the King
Observation from your search:
1) The total amount of goals were significantly higher at the neutral ground.
2) Enough to conclude: It gets more difficult to score away than it gets easier to score at home.
3) Tackles success is worse on neutral ground than both home and away, possibly contributing to finding 1.
4) An observation from Cards received there is less tension at Neutral Ground.
Assumption 1: Could "not playing at home" lower concentration? (as it concedes more goals)
Assumption 2: Could "not playing at home" lower aggression? (as it doesn't get into certain battles)
Assumption 3: Could "playing away" lower composure? (as it scores less goals)
Hey bud sorry for the late reply.
Your conclusion 2 is feasible, especially for the away team. As mentioned in the video, I think away teams become a bit less aggressive/offensive in general, attempting less shots per match, leading to less goals per match.
I wouldn't read too much into the number of yellow/red cards because the incidence is too low.
Assumptions 1/2/3 are all feasible. I have 2 more assumptions:
- During away games, player Morale is a bit lower, leading to generally worse performance
- During away games, there is a penalty added to the dice roll when Consistency (x/25) is calculated. I've heard somewhere that before every match, a dice roll is performed to determine the value of x. Perhaps during away games the calculation becomes (x-3)/25 as a penalty?
More work needs be done!
Good to have you back for the new game! One thing I was wondering while watching this is whether or not certain teams have a bigger home advantage than others because of, for example, size of crowd or even the make-up of the fan base. Do teams with a higher hardcore/core percentage have a bigger advantage than those with more casual/fairweather fans?
There is a setting to edit this as well in the pre game editor like for example the loyalty and hardcore of fans. I think it is very probable that both the type of fans and number decide the size of the home advantage but it seems as with everything with FM the difference is probably negligible compared to other things but we can't know for sure unless it's tested or SI decide to tell us anything about how the game actually works
Hey bud, I thought about that. The size of fans could possibly determine the degree of homeground advantage. Of course one cannot be sure without looking at the actual codes..
The boss is back!
Here's a juicy idea: Set the away team morale slightly higher with the editor until you get close to the equilibrium again. If player stats and win rate both end up with both teams virtually identical, it stands to reason that homeground advantage really is a morale buff - one that might even be quantified.
Hey bud, I thought of doing that too. I am planning to do an episode on Player Morale in the future, so I might run some tests as you suggest in that episode.
Great to have you back making content.
Excelente vídeo , obrigado por compartilhar essa informações tão valiosa conosco
真正的FM大神， my G EBFM!
Great video ! I've been wondering about this for a while. Some mental / hidden attributes might play a role in how much away vs home performance matters, like composure or big matches attributes
Thanks max you’re a legend
talk to players about their recent training performance, got it.
This is some nice content! The only question I have is if you did any tests when the home team had more CA than Team B, as trying to play a better team at their own game never seems to be successful for me in FM.
Hey bud, no I haven't done any tests when the two teams had varying strengths. It was important in the tests shown in this video to equalise the strength of Team A and B as much as possible.
Don't lose hope, playing a team that is stronger than you is supposed to be hard in football, both IRL and in FM.
Off course it exist and I think is over 20 perC for home teams!
선수단 view에서 헤더와 패스 관련 기록이 안 뜨는건 아마 '공식 대회 경기'가 아니기 때문에 그러는거 아닐까 싶습니다. 비공식 경기 기록들은 안 뜨고 공식 경기 기록들만 집계하는 기록 탭들이 종종 있어서요!
best account about fm
Thank you for the nice informations. I would like to see also affect of attendances, fan types, ground capacity, fullness of stadium capacity, condition of the pitch when considering homeground. I think I am going mad :D thanks for your efforts.
how about a similar test but with assumption that one of the teams is better the the other
Is being the underdog and playing aggressive still giving better results then playing defensive especially away?
❤❤
great vid mate
Ótimo vídeo como de costume, mas as conclusões sobre a tática defensiva podem ser vistas de diversas formas, primeiro que existe uma subjetividade do que seria uma tática defensiva? Posso usar uma mentalidade defensiva e usar instruções sem bola que agridem o adversário e minha tática continuaria sendo defensiva. O resultado dos testes me faz observar que é uma boa estratégia utilizar uma tática defensiva em jogos fora, e que o desafio é conseguir com essa tática defensiva, aumentar meu número de gols e ofensividade sem deixar de ter uma solidez defensiva. Seus vídeos são ótimos, uma pena eu ter chegado quando vc já estava se retirando.
Hey, first of all i want to say a big thank you for the amazing work you are doing and spreading knowledge to the fm community.
I have a question or lets say a suggestion for a future video.
I've seen a few videos debating whether you should put youngsters (up to 22-23) with just additional focus training and other videos that suggest role training is more beneficial at young age.
Is this something that you could look into?
Hey bud,
I don't have the answer to that question. People ask me about additional focus / role training all the time and it's an area that I've neglected 😅
I am currently doing a Matchday Mechanics series and I am planning to do an episode on Positional Familiarity - whether it makes a difference that a player is playing in his Natural Position. That video will possibly shed a light on the debate you've mentioned.
It would be interesting to test balanced vs attacking away from home. Ive noticed empirically thay attacking at home is OP but tend to go balanced away against strong teams
hey Max, great you're taking on fm 24 🙂
are you also gonna look at training again?
also, SI said that players would reach their peak now earlier or something like that - would be interesting to know if "age" still works the same in 24.
Hey bud,
Nah I think I've spent enough time on the training aspect of FM. I'd like to move onto other areas of the game.
I think the devs did mention that players will now peak later, and will start declining later in their career. It is a sensible change, as players are retiring later, and more players enjoy their prime years in their early-mid 30s.
@@ebfm
oh that’s interesting, I like that change.
As for the training: understandable. It’s just, would be great to know what you’re doing, playing FM24. For example, I have gotten the impression that the new unit „set pieces“ doesn’t train set pieces….
@@andreasaust1510 there are already so many staff roles that have questionable usage eg. loan manager, sport scientist... now they've added another one, but I seriously question whether it actually grows the set piece attributes of your players.
@@ebfm
Yeah, it would be so interesting to know whether the sports scientist actually has an impact on fatigue or if he only is there to assess the fatigue levels. And if it makes a difference to have one with 10 or 20. but you’re right, there are countless unanswered questions when it comes to staff.
Also, when is staff ever overloaded? You said it yourself, who needs a loan manager - can the DoF have too much workload? Or the sports scientist- do you need 3? Nobody tells you. What happens if one recruitment analyst works on 10 focuses - what even does the recruitment analyst exactly?
Great content. Just one comment. Italian KO uses high much more often press with much higher defensive line. I would have liked to the second test with actually defensive tactic.
Very interesting. One thing I'm wondering after watching this is whether the Gets Crowd Going trait affects (or is affected by) home-ground advantage. I wonder what it would look like to replicate these tests where every player on [Team A; Team B; both teams] is given the trait, along with a one-sided test at a neutral ground.
Hey mate, I haven't thought of the effects of traits. In my tests the players had 0 traits, because I didn't want to introduce an extra variable into the tests.
Gets Crowd Going could definitely be more beneficial in home grounds, since there would be more fans in the stadium. It's something that I could look into in the future.
Great video, I am curious if mentality plays a role on matchday. If playing with defensive or cautious mentality would bring you more victories away from home.
Hey bud, I've tested this before, in collaboration with FM Scout (th-cam.com/video/pP7XlWcz4GE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=sC3KPHiNRw1xw5Ok)
Attacking Mentality leads to more victories compared to Defensive Mentality, all things being equal. So be more offensive minded whenever possible!
Question: does the attendance and the supporter type make a difference?
Would be crazy but amazing if SI would implement such things.
Btw i love your approach to the game, im studying statistics and its fun to see it in action.
Awesome, could you do a video where u use this defensive and offensive tactic again WAY better teams? I am curious to see whether defensive tactics improve chance to beat Liverpool or Man City as a Luton Town for example... Or actually Attacking has more chance to win?
Hey bud, I don't think the dynamics will change when you are versing a superior team. Of course, I can't know for sure unless I've actually run some tests.
Thanks for the tests~! Just very interesting to see ...
Personal non-scientific theories on Home/Away matches - In the past, I read that the Russia teams would narrow their pitch to the smallest possible right before a CL match. Have been setting my pitch to Narrow ever since, even as a number one club in Europe~! 😅 So, at home, firstly I have the Home advantage. Secondly, the big teams prefer to play Wide, but even as a number one club in Europe, I play Narrower. Tend to do really, really well at home, ha.
Then, for Away games, I go Attacking indeed, not even Positive. (Wanted ball turnovers so that I can counter the counter, ha.) Esp for league games. Rarely do I go Cautious, unless I have a red card. In Away CL matches though, I tend to start with Attacking for 15-20 minutes, and then see how it goes. If I got a (precious Away) goal, I would weigh the situation. Only when vs the biggest boys (and they get equal chances as me, then) do I go Cautious after 20 minutes. However, I noted that the League Familiarity is absent in CL or European matches, and it's much harder to get FM-ed if you are the much Stronger team (I did lost a final-16 round by hitting the post 7 times. So, the FM scripts are definitely still a thing, at least in FM20).
I believe that is why I can win leagues for 20+ consecutive seasons, but I rarely get sustained CL success. It's about true firepower in CL, and I like to pick up bargains like a certain Arsene Wenger. 😎Fun fact - I won the CL in my 5th season, before C.Ronaldo finally retired from Zebre and then I won the league in the 6th season.
Hey bud, great to hear your story. I also think it is easier to win consecutive league titles, but winning consecutive CL is a lot harder..
I'm the biggest Arsene Wenger when I play FM. It's all about picking up those bargains and hidden gems.
@ebfm it's an Asian thingy to get discounts and bargains, yah? 😅😅😅
@@Chengyuan79 absolutely. why pay more when you don't have to?
@@ebfm Hi-fives~! 😅
love your content!
one thing i wanted to add - you brought up how the statistics were wonky because it would show something like the pass completion percentage but not total passes. it might be due to Detail Level not being set to full or complete? i know when I've done my moneyball save and worksheet, players from the scouting pool from regions that don't have a certain level of detail level won't give me the micro stats like that
hey bud, ooh I haven't thought of that! I'll try changing the game settings and see if those stats are being displayed properly. cheers!
I think the intuition of what a Defensive tactic is supposed to be is leading players to assume that mentality is not effective.
I often see people attempting a defensive tactic when both sides are of equal strength, and then they note that they win less matches playing that way, thus concluding Defensive tactics are less effective. But I'm not convinced of this. I think people are mixing "defensive" when what they really want is a "counter attacking, low possession" style, and they also seem to assume that the latter is meant to go together with the former.
The question I would like to see tested is this: does a team which is predicted to lose a match by significant odds have a higher chance of holding the stronger team to a draw by using a defensive mindset?
The second question is: are mindsets actually linear? They are presented in the game in linear fashion (from very defensive to very attacking), but perhaps it doesn't work quite that way, especially in regards to the cautious and positive mentalities.
hey bud sorry for late reply. yup, as you've pointed out, it's not always clear what a 'defensive tactic' is. In regards to your questions, although I don't have tests that address them directly, my guesses are:
1. No, attacking Mentalities are always preferable to defensive Mentalities, regardless of how strong/weak your team is compared to the opposition. I have done multiple tests regarding Mentality in the past, and a consistent observation I made was that Very Attacking Mentality always resulted in more goals/wins compared to Very Defensive, regardless of the strength of your team.
2. I do believe that mindsets are linear. I believe Mindsets, just like individual player Duties (attack/support/defend), dictate how likely players are to make forward passes or take shot attempts. You can tell by the way Mentality affects individual player Duties. Winger(support) will change to Winger(attacking) if Team Mentality is set as Attacking/Very Attacking.
@@ebfm Thanks for the clarification!
Interesting that there is a home advantage in the game. Imo the difference in stats between home and away players doesn't need to be an indicator of some buff/debuff of the players but could simply show different tactical approaches to the game by the home/away team (e.g. more cautious or more possession based).
The tests using 'attacking' and 'defensive' custom tactics from the internet doesn't mean much in my opinion as those tactics are usually made to break the match engine as much as possible and are all just very aggressive gegenpress tactics. If you look at the 'defensive' tactic all I'm seeing is hyper aggressive attacking football😅 So the low number of goals against is probably just a result of being even more dominant in possession. I'd rather try and test some pre-made tactics from the game itself, e.g. fluid counter attacking vs possession
Hey bud,
I agree, I'm starting to think that home advantage is more a result of the home team being more attacking-minded and the away team being more defensive-minded.
And yup the 2 tactics that I tested (Brazilian Box & Italian KO) may not best represent a 'defensive' or 'offensive' tactic. I will have to run more tests using other types of tactics.
I agree with the original comment. Maybe it would make sense to make use of the default tactics in the game. For example use the standard vertical Tiki-Taka against direct counter or something similar. Those tactics may not be super effective compared to what you find online but a) they represent the devs idea of what offensive and defensive tactics look like in the game and b) I assume that that is closer to what AI managers are using. Anyhow cool video as always!@@ebfm
@@Michi00600Hey bud, other people have made similar comments. I should have gone with other candidates that could more accurately represent an 'offensive' / 'defensive' tactic. Well, that means further testing will be required!
Hello, could you make in the future an experiment involving Physiotherapists? i often see myself wondering if hiring a 7th great physio makes any difference or if 15-20 physiotherapy is any different
Good video, thanks. Given that most matches don't take place at a neutral venue, that's a big swing in win chance for the home team. Is it worth doing some further testing on other factors that could affect it? I'm thinking player hiddens (pressure?), attendance, away fans.
Another good video, Inside forwards, and inside wingers - Does it really matter what their best foot is?
We plan to test exactly that for a future video.
Does your super training work on fm 24 please good job as always thanks
Hey mate, I haven't tested it on FM24 so can't say for sure. But given that not much as changed between FM23 and FM24, do feel free to give it a try.
Hi. Can you do an experiment about in game morale speech? Which one is the best or which senario should we use? Thanks a lot !
Hey bud, yes that's a topic that's on my agenda. Will be published in the next few videos.
@@ebfm thanks. I got your notification
So what constitutes home ground? Let's say my club shares a stadium. Who gets home field advantage? What if I'm renting my stadium from another team? Am I playing on home ground at the other team's stadium? Is any "home" game providing home field advantage?
Hey bud, it's an interesting question. eg. AC Milan vs Inter Milan - who is the home team?
Didn't get a chance to investigate the question this time 😅 perhaps a topic to revisit in the future.
I don't think there is such a thing as home advantage per say. I think it's more the fact that teams that are away are too cautious while the team playing at home is more proactive. If teams were proactive both at home and away then the results will be different
Hey bud, it's a possibility that away team players simply become a bit more cautious. But I guess that could be considered part of homeground advantage too.
Hello could you do a test to prove if IA score more easily than human team like we all seem to live playing, like the first shoot on target from ennemy team seems always scoring, and the fact that terrible goalkeeper always seems better than your strong goalkeeper. It seems to happen too often to be just a coincidence.
Thanks for the good job
Hey bud, I didn't notice the things you've mentioned (AI first shot always scoring, bad GK performing better than good GK), they are most likely to be just coincidences.
If you are only watching 'Key Highlights', than it may appear that the first highlight of the opposition team will always lead to goals.
I watch my match in "mini resume" (so the stage just before the complete one) and truely even the baddest GKs in my league are always like Spiderman and my Gk since several opuses are still bad even xhen i'm buying the best in the game.
For the first target shoot, i think i'm really not the only one, i remember someone who work stats like you made a test and proved the first target shoot in AI team has a lot better efficiency than our players. (sorry for my approximative english i'm not sure i'm clear enough for you). and even if it was linked to the highlight mode, it appears i have to target a lot more to score compare to opposante team
to be more accurate, the bad GKs seems to be Spiderman against me, like there was something to buff the GK of AI to make the game more difficult?the same from defensive behaviour, our team players behave like complete tourrists and ennemy team seems to be ready to suicid to protect their goal. I even saw AI def just made disapear the ball even being late, far behind the striker, and be able to take it back like they use a vaccum. It's amazing
@@philippefajardo4920 Your English is fine mate. It is strange indeed that first shots by the AI have a higher accuracy. I have no explanation for it. Perhaps it is a glitch in the game?
@@ebfm with the easier ability to score for IA and IA's GK in spiderman mode it seems to help to balance the difficulty to not win by too much marge.
It can be really painful.
Our french CM tell us "it's your tactic" but we can see wingbacks running side of IA attackers without acting, sometimes IA stricker can run in a straight line and defense open front office him like he was Moïse.
I don't know how to prove it because it seems to be a ME problem happening while you are looking at the match and not when you are simulating
To be honest, looking at the defensive tactic I don't think it was the right tactic to choose for testing defense. It's a tactic on balanced with high line pressing, counter-press, segundo volantes in the middle. It's a high press tactic, one would almost say a gegenpress, disguised a bit by the shape of the formation. It's not a 'defensive' tactic irl. I'd argue you need same formation with similar roles, but on conservative, low line, mid block at highest, no counter-press, and maybe CM (D) and a BBM in midfield. All I'm saying is that the tactic selected to be 'defensive' may have conceded less goals, but it's due to it being a high press tactic, not a 'defensive' tactic if this makes sense. In essence you're testing one attacking tactic vs another.
Hey bud sorry for the late reply. You are right, it is difficult to say exactly what makes a tactic 'offensive' or 'defensive'. Some may argue that high pressing and counterattacks are some of the main hallmarks of a defensive tactic.
Zaz and I chose Italian KO as a 'defensive tactic' because at the time it was one of the tactics with the least number of goals conceded, on FM Arena website. The tactic has admittedly fallen down the list a bit since I made the video.
But like you said, I could have chosen a different tactic that purely focuses on defending and does not counterattack at all.
If you get bored have you ever thought about the difference home grown players make? Wonder if a team of home grown won more than none…
Hey bud, I haven't heard anything about home-ground players performing better than non-home ground players. It will be an interesting feature though if it existed that could add extra immersion to the game.
한국인이신데 한글 자막이 없다니...
do you football analysis as a job IRL?
nah man, I come from a completely unrelated field (healthcare).
home ground advantage is justs tupid how OP it his , im going from not being able to get 3 shots agains Milan away , and beating them 5-1 at home its stupid and not fun at all.
I'm not sure if you have tested this before, but do the type of training sessions have an influence in the match?
For example, if I focus on possession related sessions all week, will my team have more possession in the following game?
he has a video on this topic already
hey bud, I have done a test in the past regarding the relationship between set piece training sessions and the number of set piece goals. There was no correlations between the two factors.
I have also done a video on the relationship between Match Preparation sessions and the match outcomes. Again, there was no obvious correlation.
So my guess is that training sessions impact player growth, but do not directly influence player performance during an upcoming match.
Percentage points, not percent.
Commenting for the algo, but just wanna say, I enjoy your videos but they take the joy out of the game for me. Turns the game into "optimize the match engine" instead of "pretend to be a football manager"
I know what you mean, all this research reveals that FM is basically an elaborate RNG. But then, all games are!
Wrong methodology and proper conclusions example. My tests show that Handicap for homegrown teams looks like to be included in AI algorithm of smaller range of final data results for each player behaviour choosed from tree decisions sets.
Great to see you back! Can we find you on Twitter?
Hey bud, sorry I don't have Twitter.