Yea I hate on Naniwa often, but the 400 is hands down, one of the best in it's class. They are so smooth, and cut deceptively fast. The finish, and edge, is super :)
Great stuff. Not a "waste of time" at all to compare two stones you'd assume from general knowledge would play different roles and find out they're closer than you might have guessed. I tend to look elsewhere than the Pro/Chosera because they're so pricey, but have to admit if you wanted at least a semi-polished edge when you're done it would seem to get you closer. You could see striations on the Shapton edge but not really on the Naniwa. With bevels I'm all about setting it right the first time and then just cleaning it up, so this is very useful information indeed.
I was hoping my scope would produce better phtots, but it is what it is. Starting Connie's PC, I was thinking it may work better. Unfortunately, her psu has gone to pot. Regardless, I am glad it was helpful. :D
@@Jef Well now, America's Test Kitchen has been known to take the knives they're testing to MIT's digital imaging center and then to Boston University's photonics center and put it under a damn electron microscope so I hate to say you're falling a little behind there. 😄 That said, of course you could see a contrast so that's really what counts. Again, good information to help you choose when you're teetering choice-wise on a-I don't know, at any rate something very narrow.
I love my 400 from naniwa often cheap victorinox and such can be finished right from that stone and a couple of swipes on a strop. Its a great stone. Can jump right onto the 3000 from it also a good stone.
@@knifesharpeningnorway watching your videos, you seem to lap them almost every use. you maybe avoiding them, by doing this. if you want to test it, try going 8-10 sharpening without lapping, and see if micro fractures start popping up. you may be surprised.
Youre not wasting anyone's time Jef, these videos are invaluable for anyone in the market for the stones or just curious. Your takes are always on the money and I can never detect any bias. Your vids are basically the best whetstone reviews on the site. And now that Always Sharper suddenly deleted his entire account, you got the market cornered lol . I just wish I had found your videos before I already purchased all my stuff. I was watching the burrfection stuff back then and as I've learned more I realize how much not just clear bias but straight up false information most of his rambling videos contain.
So I wound up getting an SP 1k after all and I'm already glad I did. Haven't used it too much yet but I put it up against the Cho 400 in doing some thinning on a D2 blade -- a rather demanding task. Much to my surprise, in that application the SP1k cuts noticeably faster than the Cho 400. The SP 1k also leaves a coarser scratch pattern, but that is not so surprising after seeing the difference in cutting speed. I had long assumed these stones were largely interchangeable, I never would have suspected the SP 1k to be the coarser of the two, particularly so in this application. I now understand why you are such a fan of the SP 1k, even on super steels.
hi first of all, thx you for all your videos, it is one of the best reviews on internet, you think we can benefit of having the two? alerady have the 400 and love it
@@Jef oh yes, i saw almost all of your videos for yers now lol i know the issur. i have the 400 and the 3000 pro, for few yers now without issue, but i will not add any of the higher grit of this ligne cause of the price and the cracking issues just wonder what situations or type of steel the sh1000 is better then the ch400, and vice versa i don't hear that on your video or any other
Ah right, right. Well they are basically equally good, in all scenarios. They both have the same cutting speed, and leave similar finishes. If i had to pick one over the other, I’d go Shapton. Simply bc, i prefer the hardness. Otherwise, they are the same, in almost every way.
Well Naniwas tend to be finer than you would expect and that 1k Shapton is definitely more like a 700 or something so it doesn't surprise me. I won't buy Naniwas so I don't have the 400 but I do have the Shapton and it's coarser than most 1k stones
They are indeed. I should have specified that a little better. When compared to the Shapton, it feels creamier, which in turn, makes it feel softer. That doesn't mean it is soft, however. It is definitely hard, and will maintain it's shape well. I've never used the Green brick. When I was getting started, and watching videos on it, they often described that stone as being soft. Easy to gouge, if your angle is incorrect. So I always avoided it. I don't like soft stones, that can be snow plowed.
Interesting question. I would have to do a similar side by side to give u a truthful answer. I can say the 1200 polishes almost as well as the 5k. It is lacking behind just a hair. If i had to compare i would say it’s closer to the naniwa pro 3k, in Polish.
The 1500 and 1k are pretty interchangeable. If you have one, no need to buy the other. Unless, you just gotta catch em all 😛 The 1500 is just a tad finer than the 1k. So if u are removing 400grit scratches, it may take an additional 15-20 strokes per side, to match what a 1k would do in 8-10. Miniscule and hard to quantify but don’t feel like you are lacking. You arent missing out on anything that cant be adjusted for
Thanks Jef Jewell. I share ur vids often. What would u estimate the grits to be? Is Shappro 1K coarser and faster than Chosera 400? Which vids show magnified bevels for all the Shapton Pro stones?
Oh man I don't even know. I can't say which videos I did magnification and which I did not. It was sporadic. Takes a lot of effort to stop between stones, shoot magnified shots, then continue. Then edit it all together into a video. There are not a ton of em. As for grits, they state what grit they are. I call them as they are labeled. That being said, they cut at different speeds. The 1k Shapton is a 1k stone. However, it cuts like a 4-600 grit. The Naniwa is a 400 grit stone, that cuts like a 320, maybe even a 220. Grit is a fickle thing bc there are so many charts you can go by. Google search grit charts, for more details. There are a bunch! Makers really should market their stones by abrasive micron size. Like Shapton Glass does. That would give a better understanding for most.
I was informed in another video, it is 24º per side. I do not know if this is 100% accurate, but it sounds reasonable. I usually sharpen them around 20-22º per side. Occasionally I will dip as low as 18º. but that is only on the rare occasion they are ground thinly. The nice thing about them, they are perfect for thinning yourself. As you sharpen, if you thin behind the edge each time, you can keep it going for as long as you have steel on the knife.
I’d use the Naniwa 400. If it’s really blunt though, you may need something more aggressive. Like a shapton pro 120. Think of a kitchen knife that is 8 yrs old and never sharpened. That is going to require some serious grinding.
I designate Naniwas as stones with a polishing effect now. I think the super stones have a polishing agent in them, but the pro’s/Chosera’s do not. I recently bought a Super 1000 (the blue one), and I was blown away at how polished that edge came out vs a king and a suehiro cerax 1000 and how it was even brighter than the gritomatic Sic 2500!
I had that Naniwa Super 1k. It was a baby blue color. A buddy had chopped his down, and made edge pro stones out of it. If memory serves, I sent it off to someone who did not have access to sharpening supplies. Money being a problem or something. I can't recall. Anyways, I didn't like how soft it was. The polish was awesome. No other stone series can polish like those. However, they have a tendency to warp, when drying. Add on the Naniwa Pro tendency to crack, and you have the making of bad stone formula's. They are too expensive to be so temperamental. These days I avoid Naniwa. Currently I have a full set of pro stones, up to the 10k. I never recommend them, and deter folks from blowing their cash on em. Too easily damaged, and they have zero customer service. You are required to contact the retail provider. It can take up to 6 months, before the issues start to become apparent. Often times, you are left holding the bag.
@@Jef That's why I bought the super stones 20mm at $20? That's a steal any day. I'm finally working my way towards softer stones to understand them (suehiro and king as well), so it was worth a try. Now that I've got that stone, I might try and pick up a smaller 2x2 stone or make one of my own for finger stones for polishing. I always take Japanese whestone buys with the mindset that customer service is nonexistent. But if Shapton has customer service in the states, that's more of a reason to buy them!
@@MrSATism I still wouldn't buy Naniwa lol. They just have too many problems. Glad you are enjoying them though! Hopefully the love affair continues. I enjoyed mine and thought they were the best! About 6 months into it, the 5k started showing cracks. I chalked it up to something I did incorrectly, in drying. Then my 3k and 10k, did the same thing. When my 10k showed cracks, I got MAD. That stone was EXPENSIVE. I did all I could, to contact Naniwa. They finally called me, and stated they do not support the products directly. I would have to contact the dealer, where I purchased them. Yea, after that, any respect I had, went right down the drain. Luckily, Chef Knives to go, had amazing service. They gave me a really nice deal, to compensate my losses. That was how I ended up with the full Shapton Pro line up. I do not know if they have support in the U.S. Hap Stanley used to be the face for Shapton products here. Since he developed his own stone line, I don't know if anyone deals with issues state side. Regardless, I have never had problems with those stones, and never needed to have problems addressed. That by itself, is noteworthy. Anyways, good luck on your stone experimenting. There are so many good one's out there. My buddy in New York absolutely loves soft stones. He prefers them over hard ones. I think he is loco :p
I love my Chosera 400.
It leaves a nice hazy finish and the feel and feedback is excellent.
Yea I hate on Naniwa often, but the 400 is hands down, one of the best in it's class. They are so smooth, and cut deceptively fast. The finish, and edge, is super :)
Great stuff. Not a "waste of time" at all to compare two stones you'd assume from general knowledge would play different roles and find out they're closer than you might have guessed. I tend to look elsewhere than the Pro/Chosera because they're so pricey, but have to admit if you wanted at least a semi-polished edge when you're done it would seem to get you closer. You could see striations on the Shapton edge but not really on the Naniwa. With bevels I'm all about setting it right the first time and then just cleaning it up, so this is very useful information indeed.
I was hoping my scope would produce better phtots, but it is what it is. Starting Connie's PC, I was thinking it may work better. Unfortunately, her psu has gone to pot. Regardless, I am glad it was helpful. :D
@@Jef Well now, America's Test Kitchen has been known to take the knives they're testing to MIT's digital imaging center and then to Boston University's photonics center and put it under a damn electron microscope so I hate to say you're falling a little behind there. 😄 That said, of course you could see a contrast so that's really what counts. Again, good information to help you choose when you're teetering choice-wise on a-I don't know, at any rate something very narrow.
I love my 400 from naniwa often cheap victorinox and such can be finished right from that stone and a couple of swipes on a strop. Its a great stone. Can jump right onto the 3000 from it also a good stone.
Meh, I can do without any Naniwa, 1k or higher. They crack too easily. Unless you lap them after every single use.
@@Jef my 1000 and 3000 is stil fine the 5k tough are micro cracking
@@knifesharpeningnorway My 1k cracked quite quickly and I understand how to take care of magnesia bonded stones. Won't buy them anymore
@@knifesharpeningnorway watching your videos, you seem to lap them almost every use. you maybe avoiding them, by doing this. if you want to test it, try going 8-10 sharpening without lapping, and see if micro fractures start popping up. you may be surprised.
@@Jef jupp i lapp every use every so tiny bit
Youre not wasting anyone's time Jef, these videos are invaluable for anyone in the market for the stones or just curious. Your takes are always on the money and I can never detect any bias. Your vids are basically the best whetstone reviews on the site. And now that Always Sharper suddenly deleted his entire account, you got the market cornered lol . I just wish I had found your videos before I already purchased all my stuff. I was watching the burrfection stuff back then and as I've learned more I realize how much not just clear bias but straight up false information most of his rambling videos contain.
Thank you for the kind words 👊
Good video Jef and good information!! Thanks for sharing brother!!👊
Thanks for watching bro! 👊
So I wound up getting an SP 1k after all and I'm already glad I did. Haven't used it too much yet but I put it up against the Cho 400 in doing some thinning on a D2 blade -- a rather demanding task. Much to my surprise, in that application the SP1k cuts noticeably faster than the Cho 400. The SP 1k also leaves a coarser scratch pattern, but that is not so surprising after seeing the difference in cutting speed. I had long assumed these stones were largely interchangeable, I never would have suspected the SP 1k to be the coarser of the two, particularly so in this application. I now understand why you are such a fan of the SP 1k, even on super steels.
Yea the shapton line rocks. I compare everything to them. They are my benchmark for stones 👍
Thanks. Very useful. What would u estimate the grits to be?
Love the 9400, don't carry mine much but still love the knife.
Same here. I dislike the chalky feel of the scales.
thank you very much for your videos
Thank you for watching
hi
first of all, thx you for all your videos, it is one of the best reviews on internet,
you think we can benefit of having the two?
alerady have the 400 and love it
I have both and use them each for different tasks. So yes, i think having both is beneficial 😁
@@Jef
omg you gone make me purchassiong the whole set ^^
can you tel what purpose ares each stone good at?
Ive done tons of videos on Shapton stones. As for naniwa, i dont recommend anything except the 400 grit. The high grits have issues with cracking
@@Jef
oh yes, i saw almost all of your videos for yers now lol
i know the issur. i have the 400 and the 3000 pro, for few yers now without issue, but i will not add any of the higher grit of this ligne cause of the price and the cracking issues
just wonder what situations or type of steel the sh1000 is better then the ch400, and vice versa
i don't hear that on your video or any other
Ah right, right. Well they are basically equally good, in all scenarios. They both have the same cutting speed, and leave similar finishes. If i had to pick one over the other, I’d go Shapton. Simply bc, i prefer the hardness. Otherwise, they are the same, in almost every way.
🤯 who would of thunk???
Right?
Well Naniwas tend to be finer than you would expect and that 1k Shapton is definitely more like a 700 or something so it doesn't surprise me. I won't buy Naniwas so I don't have the 400 but I do have the Shapton and it's coarser than most 1k stones
If I remember, the shapton pro low grit are hard as well? I really like the naniwa green brick, I’d like to see a video on that!
They are indeed. I should have specified that a little better. When compared to the Shapton, it feels creamier, which in turn, makes it feel softer. That doesn't mean it is soft, however. It is definitely hard, and will maintain it's shape well.
I've never used the Green brick. When I was getting started, and watching videos on it, they often described that stone as being soft. Easy to gouge, if your angle is incorrect. So I always avoided it. I don't like soft stones, that can be snow plowed.
@@Jef I have a hard time with soft stones as well, heavy handed lol
@@garrow12225 exactly :p
You should do Naniwa Pro 600 vs Shapton glass 500 vs Shapton pro 1k
Id have to look but i dont think i have the naniwa pro 600 anymore.
@@Jef hope you do, great videos btw
Good video. Do you think the Shapton Pro 320, 1000, 2000, and 5000 compare well to the Venev 240,400,800, and 1200 in scratch pattern?
Interesting question. I would have to do a similar side by side to give u a truthful answer. I can say the 1200 polishes almost as well as the 5k. It is lacking behind just a hair. If i had to compare i would say it’s closer to the naniwa pro 3k, in Polish.
@@Jef
I think it would definitely be an interesting comparison.
@@Jef
I'd still love to see this comparison if you ever get the chance. The Venev and Shapton Pro are the 2 sets of stones on the "want to get" list.
I honestly forgot about this. I’ll see what i can whip together as my next vid 👍
I have the 400 chosera and the shapton 1500. U think I need the 1000 shapton or I can do the same work whit the 400?
The 1500 and 1k are pretty interchangeable. If you have one, no need to buy the other. Unless, you just gotta catch em all 😛
The 1500 is just a tad finer than the 1k. So if u are removing 400grit scratches, it may take an additional 15-20 strokes per side, to match what a 1k would do in 8-10. Miniscule and hard to quantify but don’t feel like you are lacking. You arent missing out on anything that cant be adjusted for
Good Information!
Glad you think so! Appreciate it
Thanks Jef Jewell. I share ur vids often. What would u estimate the grits to be? Is Shappro 1K coarser and faster than Chosera 400? Which vids show magnified bevels for all the Shapton Pro stones?
Oh man I don't even know. I can't say which videos I did magnification and which I did not. It was sporadic. Takes a lot of effort to stop between stones, shoot magnified shots, then continue. Then edit it all together into a video. There are not a ton of em.
As for grits, they state what grit they are. I call them as they are labeled. That being said, they cut at different speeds. The 1k Shapton is a 1k stone. However, it cuts like a 4-600 grit. The Naniwa is a 400 grit stone, that cuts like a 320, maybe even a 220.
Grit is a fickle thing bc there are so many charts you can go by. Google search grit charts, for more details. There are a bunch!
Makers really should market their stones by abrasive micron size. Like Shapton Glass does. That would give a better understanding for most.
Search my channel for magnification. It should pop up what you are looking for
Do you know what the factory angle is on the 940? I want to get one, but I’ve heard horror stories about the grind from the factory.
I was informed in another video, it is 24º per side. I do not know if this is 100% accurate, but it sounds reasonable. I usually sharpen them around 20-22º per side. Occasionally I will dip as low as 18º. but that is only on the rare occasion they are ground thinly.
The nice thing about them, they are perfect for thinning yourself. As you sharpen, if you thin behind the edge each time, you can keep it going for as long as you have steel on the knife.
@@Jef damn, that was a fast reply. Thanks!
If I had a really blunt knife, which stone between the two should I use first
I’d use the Naniwa 400. If it’s really blunt though, you may need something more aggressive. Like a shapton pro 120. Think of a kitchen knife that is 8 yrs old and never sharpened. That is going to require some serious grinding.
The shapton 1000 doesn't feel like one more like a 800 or 600.
Not sure what you are trying to say. Your english isn't quite clear. Are you saying the Shapton does not feel like an 800 or 600?
@@Jef the shapton 1k feels more coarse than advertised, sorry for the grammar text to speech lol.
I know that issue all too well 🤣 and i agree. The 1k feels coarser than the grit rating.
I designate Naniwas as stones with a polishing effect now. I think the super stones have a polishing agent in them, but the pro’s/Chosera’s do not.
I recently bought a Super 1000 (the blue one), and I was blown away at how polished that edge came out vs a king and a suehiro cerax 1000 and how it was even brighter than the gritomatic Sic 2500!
I had that Naniwa Super 1k. It was a baby blue color. A buddy had chopped his down, and made edge pro stones out of it. If memory serves, I sent it off to someone who did not have access to sharpening supplies. Money being a problem or something. I can't recall. Anyways, I didn't like how soft it was. The polish was awesome. No other stone series can polish like those. However, they have a tendency to warp, when drying.
Add on the Naniwa Pro tendency to crack, and you have the making of bad stone formula's. They are too expensive to be so temperamental. These days I avoid Naniwa. Currently I have a full set of pro stones, up to the 10k. I never recommend them, and deter folks from blowing their cash on em. Too easily damaged, and they have zero customer service. You are required to contact the retail provider. It can take up to 6 months, before the issues start to become apparent. Often times, you are left holding the bag.
@@Jef Exactly how I feel about Naniwa
@@Jef That's why I bought the super stones 20mm at $20? That's a steal any day. I'm finally working my way towards softer stones to understand them (suehiro and king as well), so it was worth a try. Now that I've got that stone, I might try and pick up a smaller 2x2 stone or make one of my own for finger stones for polishing.
I always take Japanese whestone buys with the mindset that customer service is nonexistent. But if Shapton has customer service in the states, that's more of a reason to buy them!
@@MrSATism I still wouldn't buy Naniwa lol. They just have too many problems. Glad you are enjoying them though! Hopefully the love affair continues. I enjoyed mine and thought they were the best! About 6 months into it, the 5k started showing cracks. I chalked it up to something I did incorrectly, in drying. Then my 3k and 10k, did the same thing. When my 10k showed cracks, I got MAD. That stone was EXPENSIVE. I did all I could, to contact Naniwa. They finally called me, and stated they do not support the products directly. I would have to contact the dealer, where I purchased them. Yea, after that, any respect I had, went right down the drain. Luckily, Chef Knives to go, had amazing service. They gave me a really nice deal, to compensate my losses. That was how I ended up with the full Shapton Pro line up.
I do not know if they have support in the U.S. Hap Stanley used to be the face for Shapton products here. Since he developed his own stone line, I don't know if anyone deals with issues state side. Regardless, I have never had problems with those stones, and never needed to have problems addressed. That by itself, is noteworthy.
Anyways, good luck on your stone experimenting. There are so many good one's out there. My buddy in New York absolutely loves soft stones. He prefers them over hard ones. I think he is loco :p