Fer real. I live in Bishop California, we have a few really strong middle aged and “old” climbers that still crush on the rock, but the number 1 topic among all of them is injuries….they are all extra skinny and look older than they actually are because they don’t lift weights.
You forgot to mention one major point which is probably the most important of all.. Screaming "LIGHT WEIGHT BABBBBBBYYYYY!" Every time you finish your set
I must say, that switching my hangboard for a lifting edge (got the lattice quad block for pinching, but I'm really using it for lifting most of the time now) helped me a lot with training the fingers. I kinda plateaued with my hang boarding for quite a while (probably a year after a couple years of hangboarding) around more or less the same weight. The reason was usually a mix of recovery and the hand and arm positions becoming uncomfortable on my personal hang board. Trying harder just started to feel really bad. Using a lifting edge is a nice change in arm and shoulder position, fatigue in the shoulders or back don't matter that much and my warm up for a max effort is way shorter: A full session including the necessary warm up is done in 15-20 minutes no matter what. The reduced complexity and comfortable "edge" also allows me to really just focus on pulling hard with my fingers and nothing else. The numbers reflect it so far: Within the past 8 weeks I was able to increase the weigth on each arm by 15%, ignoring the lead in phase where I increased the weight every session. So really from the first weight that felt hard to what now feels hard. I'll give this another rest week over the holidays and then check back on the hangboard to see if this improved anything, or how it feels. But I already feel it showing in my climbing: Certain moonboard problems became a lot easier.
Great content. As a 50yr old experienced runner I read Joe Friel's Faster After 50. The main tenet being that as an older runner you should generally reduce training volume, increase training intensity and do strength and conditioning training. I had mostly neglected S&C work in my 30/40's. I fixed that and in the next 12 months ran multiple new PB's in 5k, 10k and Half Marathon. I wish I had understood the importance of strength training when younger.
I started lifting and my climbing improved. Not only can I lock off and stuff, but shoulder pain is gone and I can climb more often. More muscle mass helps sport climbing!!!
100% agree on shoulders. mine hurt all the time when i started bouldering. been training weightlifting for a couple years now and haven't had any shoulder issues since i started.
Wow. Just wow. What a brilliant video. Production quality is through the roof mate. Music choice spectacular. Colours looks great! Cannot wait for more. 🎉
Hell yeah strength training!! Natasha Barnes has excellent programs for in-season strength training for climbing, and Casey Johnston's LIFTOFF: Couch to Barbell guide is perfect to get started with weightlifting. Love to see more folks talk about the importance of strength training for climbing - thanks for this video!
I can attest to this personally. I'm in my mid 30s and after suffering from an accute hamstring tear while climbing, I choose to start hitting the gym to do some actual weight lifting. I'm definitely climbing better than ever, albeit a little less frequently. Haven't had any major injuries since, and also feel less sore after a climbing session once my body acclimated to the new routine! Highly recommended (plus I discovered weight lifting is actually kind of addicting).
I started lifting about a year ago at the age of 40. Put on 10kg, max hang gone from 145% body weight to 120% body weight, gone from 7c+ sport to 7b sport. Less shoulder niggles now though and feel better overall so will keep lifting anyway.
I have a weird injury question: I was injury free, took a long break from climbing, and when I returned to climbing I was injured. Has anyone else experienced this? I am an avid climber: 10 years climbing 5.13s regularly for a long time. For professional reasons I stopped climbing and sat down for 7 months - no training, exercise, nothing. I was healthy when I stopped, but in my first climbing session back I was shocked to find pain in every flexor tendon (between the A2 and A3 pulley) on both hands - no acute injury. The pain is most notable when I pull on a jugs, sloppers are the most comfortable, crimps are in between. First sessions were extremely light, as I noticed the pain immediately, and I am continuing to do light sessions - pain levels seem to be improving (slowly). I project a recovery time of 2 to 3 months. Currently trying to assess if this is a matter of pain tolerance or suggestive of an underlying condition like tendonitis.
Something I’ve been wondering for a while. What’s the reason behind the quad block being made of metal? I have pretty sweaty hands, and i always feel like I just end up slipping off and don’t get to load my fingers as much as I’d like
Great video! I’m doing a lot of yoga, and assume that the whole body strength improvement helps my climbing. I’m mainly concerned with injury prevention - what parts of my body might need extra attention that yoga wouldn’t give them? Finger strength I guess?
Haha. Don't panic, we never said squats stop at parallel. We love full depth squats, split squats, sissy squats, cossack squats, goblet squats as much as the next person. Every squat has its place.
Returned to lifting after 25 years and it has hugely reduced niggles and injury. Im 62 and lifting is not too hard for old geezers so the idea that you can look after your aging body by dropping lifting is a bad one. (FWIW I dropped lifting because I thought it was interrupting my recovery between judo/ jiu jistsu classes. What I really needed to do was drop judo/ jiu jitsu)
I am a sportsphysiotherapist and a big advocate of strength training. BUT the referred study about strength training to reduce injury risk is an analysis of 6 studies, non of which includes the upper extremity nor climbers. So the reference is not directly applicable for climbers. However this can lead to the hypothesis that strength training can reduce injury risk in climbers. My point is that the claim made in the video is not so certain and can't be backed with the referred study. And I would like to add that doing more is not necessarily better (even though statistically -ignoring human physiology- that is a conclusion of the referred study). There is a different optimum for every individual after which strength training has no more benefits or even downsides like overtraining or overuse injuries. The benefits of strength training can only be harvested if there is enough rest. Doing shoulder rotation exercises (as seen a few times in this video) is a waste of time as it is not specific (so no transfer to climbing) and other exercises that are more specific (so more likely to transfer to climbing) also work the rotator cuff. Don't waste your time on these unless you are in the first phase of shoulder rehab.
Yes a good point about the research being in different sports. We're making some assumptions that strength training interventions for the upper body will lead to a reduced risk of injury in our sport. In a similar way strength training in the lower body does for team sports etc. I've not seen any climbing specific research to support this claim, as you point out. Our claim here, that strength training is protective, is based on the hypothesis that strength training builds and increased tissue tolerance and increased training capacity. Although the referenced research doesn't prove this directly for the upper body or climbing, we feel the mechanisms will transfer to the upper body as well. The climbing physiotherapists we work with have agreed with us on this fact. Could you explain why you don't think this might be the case? Or point us in the direction of other research papers worth reading? We're always keen to learn.
Would argue exercises are not specific, adaptations are, and external rotation is a movement we use in climbing. If another exercise which covers this movement can be loaded heavier then do this, but rotation of the shoulder is valuable to strength train. What has happened is climbers all assumed this light dumbbell or band based series of exercises to "target" the rotator cuff and never progressed and do these different to all other strength training... alike core...
this is a general issue with lattice training, too often their claims aren't back up by evidence or evidence directly contradicts what they're trying to say
Well sure, but if you build strength just from climbing on the wall you will also be less likely to suffer injuries later in life.... So all you're really saying is "exercise is good". Agreed.
Do you have any views on the Sandow light dumbell system? Would this be a good system to try to get a baseline strength and reduce injuries in someone who doesn't currently lift?
This is like saying hangboarding is not worth doing until X grade, ie total nonsense unless you're so time-pressured that it's stopping you doing a few good sessions of climbing per week
It's a crime to tell people not to train strength from day 1. You will regret not already having a year of strength training under your belt when you reach grade X. Why delay the inevitable?
Sounds counterintuitive, but I got a big reduction in elbow pain by doing 3 sets of 30s, two arm, 90° lockoffs, every other day. The first time, it felt stupid, but after a week, I already noticed a huge difference.
Starting the video. I'm one of those climbers and coach that are not convinced about weightlifting for amateurs. Let's see. Well, still not convinced. You actually talk about strength training. I mean, everyone should be sold about strength training at this point, the data is completely clear. But i thought this would be about weights ! You even choose an exercise at around 6:00 that is not at all weightlifting. So, i don't think this video makes a good job at advocating for weightlifting. And i'm thus still convinced about the fact that there are better ways to get stronger at climbing than using weights.
We are not aiming to just advocate for weightlifting, but strength training in general. You can build strength in many ways but for simplicity lets just call it 'resistance training' - this is the term a lot of the research uses. This umbrella term will cover weightlifting (free weights & machines) and calisthenics (e.g. lock-offs). Weightlifting is just one form of resistance training and is a very safe and effective form of strength training. Our national health service recommends the general public (at a minimum) engage in resistance training 2x per week for its long term health benefits. There is no minimum skill level required. For climbers, resistance training has even more benefits and weightlifting is a simple way to do it. I am interested why you would avoid this recommendation for amateurs, or do you simply prefer calisthenic exercises?
Ok, i got confused by your video description. Basically yes, i would prefer calisthenics over weightlifting, if said amateur has the same accessibility to both of it. To give you a more complete answer, i always try not to fall into a false dichotomy about training, and a frequent one is "you have to choose between complete isolation and climbing". Why not both ? Usually in climbing, it's not that hard to achieve a heavy focus on one muscle group, and still perform some other climbing qualities. For example, campusing boulders. Even better focus, statically campusing boulders (super advanced). For amateurs, i think it's a better use of their time as it ticks more boxes in one go : -health benefits -movement coordination -problem resolution/fun And since they have a limited amount of time dedicated to climbing/training, i overall think it's a better choice, at similar accessibility. Now, of course, if one climber doesn't have access to a well furnished climbing gym, weightlifting becomes an option, but i would still probably try to make it more specific, like edge/pinch lifts and "bar" stuff (pull-ups, muscle up...) rather than a super broad approach including bench press or deadlifts.@@LatticeTraining
@@Ptitviaud1337 Really great logic and we can agree that making an exercise tick more boxes for beginners is a great thing. There are certainly many circumstances where weightlifting can take away from time/energy that is better spent 'on the wall'. For most of the climbers and athletes we work with, weightlifting is scheduled in a few ways. 1) after a climbing session when the fingers and forearms are fatigued, focus has dipped, but bench or deadlifts may still be performed at a suitable intensity and provide extra long term benefits. 2) more heavily scheduled in the off-season when building training volume is the goal, but variation in training modalities mitigates overuse injuries. 3) in advanced climbers where 'on the wall' exercises or calisthenics won't hit the desired intensity. e.g. a tension drill won't hit the glutes like a heavy rack-pull. Of course this stuff is periodized and we go very light on resistance training pre-season and in-season.
Ok, makes sense. Doest it also, somehow, ticks the box of "making the athlete do something controlled" during a perdio where climbing deload would be the goal ? I have personnally experienced it, and while i struggle way less now doing it (e.g, not do a lot during some deload), it's certainly a concern for a lot.@@LatticeTraining
@@Ptitviaud1337 Yes really good point. Some struggle to deload properly. Training can be their mental deload/time away from work. So they don't cope well with sitting at home. But I would suggest that resistance training needs to deload as well. But this might just be in the form of intensity, so they can still enjoy the time at the gym and exercising, while letting the fingers rest.
If you’re just starting weight training, learn the big three first: back squat, dead lift, bench press. If you’re untrained, you’ll have big overall strength gains in a short period.
I figured the emphasis was for power, but on some of the reps it definitely looks like the legs are leading. Anyways just curious not dissing, I know the lattice folks are all far stronger and have better technique than I @@mileslavoie
Using the entire body even if you are campusing moves can be important so using this type of pull up can definitely have a place. It would just be important to know what you are trying to achieve with the exercise and adapt the form accordingly. @@thenayancat8802
Being a strong human being never goes out of style.
unlike that jacket (sorry)
@@shivaargula4735 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH DONT TELL HIM
Fer real. I live in Bishop California, we have a few really strong middle aged and “old” climbers that still crush on the rock, but the number 1 topic among all of them is injuries….they are all extra skinny and look older than they actually are because they don’t lift weights.
You forgot to mention one major point which is probably the most important of all.. Screaming "LIGHT WEIGHT BABBBBBBYYYYY!" Every time you finish your set
Man of culture
Ain't Nothin' but a peanut 🥜
I must say, that switching my hangboard for a lifting edge (got the lattice quad block for pinching, but I'm really using it for lifting most of the time now) helped me a lot with training the fingers. I kinda plateaued with my hang boarding for quite a while (probably a year after a couple years of hangboarding) around more or less the same weight. The reason was usually a mix of recovery and the hand and arm positions becoming uncomfortable on my personal hang board. Trying harder just started to feel really bad.
Using a lifting edge is a nice change in arm and shoulder position, fatigue in the shoulders or back don't matter that much and my warm up for a max effort is way shorter: A full session including the necessary warm up is done in 15-20 minutes no matter what. The reduced complexity and comfortable "edge" also allows me to really just focus on pulling hard with my fingers and nothing else.
The numbers reflect it so far: Within the past 8 weeks I was able to increase the weigth on each arm by 15%, ignoring the lead in phase where I increased the weight every session. So really from the first weight that felt hard to what now feels hard.
I'll give this another rest week over the holidays and then check back on the hangboard to see if this improved anything, or how it feels. But I already feel it showing in my climbing: Certain moonboard problems became a lot easier.
Great content. As a 50yr old experienced runner I read Joe Friel's Faster After 50. The main tenet being that as an older runner you should generally reduce training volume, increase training intensity and do strength and conditioning training. I had mostly neglected S&C work in my 30/40's. I fixed that and in the next 12 months ran multiple new PB's in 5k, 10k and Half Marathon. I wish I had understood the importance of strength training when younger.
I started lifting and my climbing improved. Not only can I lock off and stuff, but shoulder pain is gone and I can climb more often. More muscle mass helps sport climbing!!!
100% agree on shoulders. mine hurt all the time when i started bouldering. been training weightlifting for a couple years now and haven't had any shoulder issues since i started.
Wow. Just wow. What a brilliant video. Production quality is through the roof mate. Music choice spectacular. Colours looks great! Cannot wait for more. 🎉
Hell yeah strength training!! Natasha Barnes has excellent programs for in-season strength training for climbing, and Casey Johnston's LIFTOFF: Couch to Barbell guide is perfect to get started with weightlifting. Love to see more folks talk about the importance of strength training for climbing - thanks for this video!
I can attest to this personally. I'm in my mid 30s and after suffering from an accute hamstring tear while climbing, I choose to start hitting the gym to do some actual weight lifting. I'm definitely climbing better than ever, albeit a little less frequently. Haven't had any major injuries since, and also feel less sore after a climbing session once my body acclimated to the new routine! Highly recommended (plus I discovered weight lifting is actually kind of addicting).
I have also tore a hamstring while climbing. So painful. I learned to warm up a long time other than just climbing easy things like younger people.
I started lifting about a year ago at the age of 40. Put on 10kg, max hang gone from 145% body weight to 120% body weight, gone from 7c+ sport to 7b sport. Less shoulder niggles now though and feel better overall so will keep lifting anyway.
I have a weird injury question: I was injury free, took a long break from climbing, and when I returned to climbing I was injured. Has anyone else experienced this?
I am an avid climber: 10 years climbing 5.13s regularly for a long time. For professional reasons I stopped climbing and sat down for 7 months - no training, exercise, nothing. I was healthy when I stopped, but in my first climbing session back I was shocked to find pain in every flexor tendon (between the A2 and A3 pulley) on both hands - no acute injury. The pain is most notable when I pull on a jugs, sloppers are the most comfortable, crimps are in between.
First sessions were extremely light, as I noticed the pain immediately, and I am continuing to do light sessions - pain levels seem to be improving (slowly). I project a recovery time of 2 to 3 months. Currently trying to assess if this is a matter of pain tolerance or suggestive of an underlying condition like tendonitis.
Coaches always say "autoregulate, keep effort 8/10" and "try hard" in the same sentence 🤔
Something I’ve been wondering for a while. What’s the reason behind the quad block being made of metal? I have pretty sweaty hands, and i always feel like I just end up slipping off and don’t get to load my fingers as much as I’d like
Great video! I’m doing a lot of yoga, and assume that the whole body strength improvement helps my climbing. I’m mainly concerned with injury prevention - what parts of my body might need extra attention that yoga wouldn’t give them? Finger strength I guess?
Who told lattice that a squat stops at parallel? Surly atg squats who have far better carry over to climbing?
good point actually
Haha. Don't panic, we never said squats stop at parallel. We love full depth squats, split squats, sissy squats, cossack squats, goblet squats as much as the next person. Every squat has its place.
Returned to lifting after 25 years and it has hugely reduced niggles and injury. Im 62 and lifting is not too hard for old geezers so the idea that you can look after your aging body by dropping lifting is a bad one. (FWIW I dropped lifting because I thought it was interrupting my recovery between judo/ jiu jistsu classes. What I really needed to do was drop judo/ jiu jitsu)
I am a sportsphysiotherapist and a big advocate of strength training. BUT the referred study about strength training to reduce injury risk is an analysis of 6 studies, non of which includes the upper extremity nor climbers. So the reference is not directly applicable for climbers. However this can lead to the hypothesis that strength training can reduce injury risk in climbers. My point is that the claim made in the video is not so certain and can't be backed with the referred study.
And I would like to add that doing more is not necessarily better (even though statistically -ignoring human physiology- that is a conclusion of the referred study). There is a different optimum for every individual after which strength training has no more benefits or even downsides like overtraining or overuse injuries. The benefits of strength training can only be harvested if there is enough rest.
Doing shoulder rotation exercises (as seen a few times in this video) is a waste of time as it is not specific (so no transfer to climbing) and other exercises that are more specific (so more likely to transfer to climbing) also work the rotator cuff. Don't waste your time on these unless you are in the first phase of shoulder rehab.
which exercises and why are they more specific?
Yes a good point about the research being in different sports. We're making some assumptions that strength training interventions for the upper body will lead to a reduced risk of injury in our sport. In a similar way strength training in the lower body does for team sports etc. I've not seen any climbing specific research to support this claim, as you point out. Our claim here, that strength training is protective, is based on the hypothesis that strength training builds and increased tissue tolerance and increased training capacity. Although the referenced research doesn't prove this directly for the upper body or climbing, we feel the mechanisms will transfer to the upper body as well. The climbing physiotherapists we work with have agreed with us on this fact. Could you explain why you don't think this might be the case? Or point us in the direction of other research papers worth reading? We're always keen to learn.
Would argue exercises are not specific, adaptations are, and external rotation is a movement we use in climbing. If another exercise which covers this movement can be loaded heavier then do this, but rotation of the shoulder is valuable to strength train. What has happened is climbers all assumed this light dumbbell or band based series of exercises to "target" the rotator cuff and never progressed and do these different to all other strength training... alike core...
this is a general issue with lattice training, too often their claims aren't back up by evidence or evidence directly contradicts what they're trying to say
Those who build strength through weight lifting are much less likely to suffer from life changing injuries during the late stages of life
Targeted lifting/training that complements your spot of choice will always be beneficial
Well sure, but if you build strength just from climbing on the wall you will also be less likely to suffer injuries later in life.... So all you're really saying is "exercise is good". Agreed.
Do you have any views on the Sandow light dumbell system? Would this be a good system to try to get a baseline strength and reduce injuries in someone who doesn't currently lift?
Never heard of it sorry
This is like saying hangboarding is not worth doing until X grade, ie total nonsense unless you're so time-pressured that it's stopping you doing a few good sessions of climbing per week
It's a crime to tell people not to train strength from day 1. You will regret not already having a year of strength training under your belt when you reach grade X. Why delay the inevitable?
Any advice with strengthening with climbers elbow that hasn’t got better
Sounds counterintuitive, but I got a big reduction in elbow pain by doing 3 sets of 30s, two arm, 90° lockoffs, every other day. The first time, it felt stupid, but after a week, I already noticed a huge difference.
Using a rice bucket and focusing on my extensor muscles saved my elbows. Highly recommend.
Thank you@@fleabites
thank you@@ipidthoroughbred3940
there's not an athlete in this world that wouldn't benefit from making a movement take less of their strength
Deadlifts are a waste of back
haha vidéo release the day i injure my knee and shoulder👍
Yeah, Take the stairs, Elevator or Escalator.
Starting the video. I'm one of those climbers and coach that are not convinced about weightlifting for amateurs. Let's see.
Well, still not convinced. You actually talk about strength training. I mean, everyone should be sold about strength training at this point, the data is completely clear. But i thought this would be about weights ! You even choose an exercise at around 6:00 that is not at all weightlifting.
So, i don't think this video makes a good job at advocating for weightlifting. And i'm thus still convinced about the fact that there are better ways to get stronger at climbing than using weights.
We are not aiming to just advocate for weightlifting, but strength training in general. You can build strength in many ways but for simplicity lets just call it 'resistance training' - this is the term a lot of the research uses. This umbrella term will cover weightlifting (free weights & machines) and calisthenics (e.g. lock-offs). Weightlifting is just one form of resistance training and is a very safe and effective form of strength training. Our national health service recommends the general public (at a minimum) engage in resistance training 2x per week for its long term health benefits. There is no minimum skill level required. For climbers, resistance training has even more benefits and weightlifting is a simple way to do it. I am interested why you would avoid this recommendation for amateurs, or do you simply prefer calisthenic exercises?
Ok, i got confused by your video description.
Basically yes, i would prefer calisthenics over weightlifting, if said amateur has the same accessibility to both of it. To give you a more complete answer, i always try not to fall into a false dichotomy about training, and a frequent one is "you have to choose between complete isolation and climbing". Why not both ? Usually in climbing, it's not that hard to achieve a heavy focus on one muscle group, and still perform some other climbing qualities. For example, campusing boulders. Even better focus, statically campusing boulders (super advanced).
For amateurs, i think it's a better use of their time as it ticks more boxes in one go :
-health benefits
-movement coordination
-problem resolution/fun
And since they have a limited amount of time dedicated to climbing/training, i overall think it's a better choice, at similar accessibility.
Now, of course, if one climber doesn't have access to a well furnished climbing gym, weightlifting becomes an option, but i would still probably try to make it more specific, like edge/pinch lifts and "bar" stuff (pull-ups, muscle up...) rather than a super broad approach including bench press or deadlifts.@@LatticeTraining
@@Ptitviaud1337 Really great logic and we can agree that making an exercise tick more boxes for beginners is a great thing. There are certainly many circumstances where weightlifting can take away from time/energy that is better spent 'on the wall'. For most of the climbers and athletes we work with, weightlifting is scheduled in a few ways. 1) after a climbing session when the fingers and forearms are fatigued, focus has dipped, but bench or deadlifts may still be performed at a suitable intensity and provide extra long term benefits. 2) more heavily scheduled in the off-season when building training volume is the goal, but variation in training modalities mitigates overuse injuries. 3) in advanced climbers where 'on the wall' exercises or calisthenics won't hit the desired intensity. e.g. a tension drill won't hit the glutes like a heavy rack-pull. Of course this stuff is periodized and we go very light on resistance training pre-season and in-season.
Ok, makes sense. Doest it also, somehow, ticks the box of "making the athlete do something controlled" during a perdio where climbing deload would be the goal ? I have personnally experienced it, and while i struggle way less now doing it (e.g, not do a lot during some deload), it's certainly a concern for a lot.@@LatticeTraining
@@Ptitviaud1337 Yes really good point. Some struggle to deload properly. Training can be their mental deload/time away from work. So they don't cope well with sitting at home. But I would suggest that resistance training needs to deload as well. But this might just be in the form of intensity, so they can still enjoy the time at the gym and exercising, while letting the fingers rest.
If you’re just starting weight training, learn the big three first: back squat, dead lift, bench press. If you’re untrained, you’ll have big overall strength gains in a short period.
Are those meant to be kipping pullups? Because they look like kipping pullups
Looks like an explosive pull up meant to emulate a powerful move on an overhang. Using your whole body to exert as much force as possible.
I figured the emphasis was for power, but on some of the reps it definitely looks like the legs are leading. Anyways just curious not dissing, I know the lattice folks are all far stronger and have better technique than I @@mileslavoie
Using the entire body even if you are campusing moves can be important so using this type of pull up can definitely have a place. It would just be important to know what you are trying to achieve with the exercise and adapt the form accordingly. @@thenayancat8802
i prefer calisthenics