Hi all! Thanks for all of the feedback on this video so far. We really appreciate feedback in everything that we do at Lattice and we want you to know that we are listening. Firstly let us apologise to anyone that feels we have repeated/interrupted Yves along the way. This certainly was not our intention. We aimed to simply expand, contextualise and in some cases simplify the information from Yves, to make the information easily digestible for a wider audience. For context: The original video from Yves was recorded for our coaches, as part of our ongoing internal coach education and this TH-cam edit aimed to share the 'best bits' with you - our community. The extra bits from coach Josh were so that the edit did not feel disjointed and followed some form of direction i.e. set up, session, interpretation. It’s clear that many of you did not feel this was obvious from this video. So we have uploaded the raw uncut/uneditted footage from Yves here for any of you that are interested in seeing the original video: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html Furthermore, if you are looking for more great free content from Lattice and Yves, be sure to check out our recent podcast interview with him here: latticetraining.com/2022/03/26/yves-gravelle/ Thank you for continuing to support our channel, so that we can continue to support you 😊
i found the parts with josh sumerasing very good! as it makes the whole thing more clear. it would be very intresting to dive deeper about the training method of short lifts as oposed to isometric max hangs. i supose his training will stiffen the tendons and make him perform beter, but does it not increase risk of injury? i saw some researsh talking about this stuf, would love lattice to give its perpective
The video format is good. Yves video was for one audience, and this video was made for another, different audience while also being made to be more presentable while restating then expanding on important points. I found it very valuable.
I would love a summary slide at key points in the video in the future to help summarize key learnings at logical breaks. This helps make the content of the video a little bit more digestible.
Yves is a legend. So great to see him on the Lattice channel! Hearing about his methodical approach to training always gives fantastic insight and inspiration.
This video was golden. Yves clearly knows his stuff. Thank him for sharing. I really like this format. I for one really appreciate the value of good editing and having a second voice in an educational video. I get that there is also value in having access to the basically uncut version, but the added value of a trained second expert speaker syncing with the underlying video is of great value. Keep up the good work.
Hmm okay, good to know! The original video was recorded for our Lattice coaches and the point of this edit is that we stripped out all the 'best bits' for our community and viewers with Yves agreement. Although it may not seem like it, we put a lot of work in to make this video concise and simple but we appreciate the more experienced climbers and trainers want all the info uninterpreted
@@LatticeTraining I thought you all did a nice job. I think a quick summary/conclusion bit at the end might have been a good touch as there was a lot of info in this.
@@jeremiahjahn Thanks for the feedback, it's very much appreciated. If anyone is interested in the uncut version from Yves, we've uploaded it here: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
Would you use the same method of measuring your max hang on a hang board as you would for lifting in the way Yves was in the video or would Yves use a different method?
Okay good to know! We will have a look at uploading the uncut footage, seems lots of people want to see it - we will reply to our pinned comment with the link once it's available (takes a good while to upload) 💪
To build on the point about not training to exhaustion... If you use all your energy with your training, it can be very difficult for your body to have enough energy, or get enough energy from food, to optimize for a good recovery. By training to exhaustion you compromise your ability to recover, and recovery is when you make your gains, this is a pretty profound insight.
It's impossible to use all your energy. What does it even mean? There is a point where more training is not better but it's not "energy". If your body has no energy left, it's dead.
I have been training consistently since the early 1980s. At 66 I am setting PBs for finger strength and endurance and close to my first 8b+ (which will be a first ascent). 31 years at 5.13 with zero injuries. I have lots of "old man wisdom" on this stuff, in part due to my also coaching and competing track athletics.
@@terraflow__bryanburdo4547 lmao and he even replied to my comment! What an honor! I've been climbing in WA for the past 10 years and have had the pleasure of climbing many of your routes.
What I don't really see in this video is what the title hints at- that this method is a game changer. I would have expected a comparison to other finger training methods and discussion of how it is a game changer and/or when it's appropriate vs overhead hangs.
Josh says at 11:35 that the arm-lifting training is much more specific to rock climbing than isometric training (hanging from a board). I think arm lifitng might be safer and easier to adjust compared to hangboarding. But yeah, they could stress the point a bit better.
Obviously the title is overselling it for people to click. I doubt that in a well balanced climbing training it would be superior to hangboarding. The fact that it's more specific than hangboarding IMO is moot because you want to be climbing on top of strength training anyway.
For me the big benefit is that I find it way more fun. As someone that likes weight training I find it far more satisfying doing block lifts than hanging from an edge, and at the end of the day it's usually the training you actually enjoy that stick around and makes improvements in the long term.
Hi noone, thanks for commenting, glad you enjoyed the info from Yves! Apologies if the video came across in this way, our intention was not to repeat but rather expand, contextualise and in some cases simplify the information from Yves for a wider audience. The OG video from Yves was recorded for our coaches, as part of our ongoing internal education and this TH-cam edit's aim was to share the 'best bits' with our community and viewers. The extra bits from me (coach Josh) were so that the edit did not feel disjointed and followed some form of direction i.e. set up, session, interpretation. It may not seen like it on the surface, but we did do a fair bit of editing and reordering to make it flow and follow this structure, it's a shame it didn't come across in that way. Hopefully there is still some good value and takeaways from this video.
I have been doing a slighlty different training protocoll with the tension block for the last 2 months and my finger feel so good damn good right now! I´ve been climbing for about 5 years and completed at least a dozen overhead hangboard cycles in the last couple of years but adding this training session before my kilter session made me jump an entire grade! Give this a go if you want strong fingers
@@n.c4692 first do a testing session! then i did the following: 40%,50%,60%,70% 1 set each. 1 set is 4 reps off 3 sec holding (12sec tut). then followed by 4 set of 4 reps with 80%, 3 secs holding
Super cool training stimulus. Thanks for sharing, Lattice! Also, appreciated the format of the video - splicing in Josh to explain certain elements and expand on them was helpful for me.
If your loading pin is too tall you can set up raised platforms to stand on to elevate your body or simply adjust the length of the chord on the lifting implement.
Yves has mentioned that he takes his programming from a lot of places, but one of the big ones is Boris Sheiko from the powerlifting area. Sheiko has some interesting ideas that I'd love to hear analyzed for climbing. I think his most approachable work in english is "Powerlifting Foundations and methods"
Couldn't agree more! We love talking to Yves... Be sure to catch up on our recent podcast interiew with him, if you haven't already: latticetraining.com/2022/03/26/yves-gravelle/ 💪
Thanks for this video. I had an idea a few weeks ago to run 5/3/1 wave periodisation, which is typically used in intermediate powerlifting, on the portable hangboard. This video from Yves confirms it can deliver results. Yves is basically running a very customised ad-hoc version of wave periodisation with all the bells and whistles that powerlifters add on like Joker sets, pyramids, AMRAPs, deloads, peaking, and so on. And the beauty of the portable hangboard is that it removes the fluctuations of your bodyweight from the training. One would now have to wonder if more intelligent programming like concurrency or undulation work work even better...but seeing as most of us are not arm-lifting 100 kg, any program is going to deliver good results.
I liked the content a lot. Just my opinion, but I did not enjoy the repetitiveness of it, but I saw you guys read the other comments with similar feeling and responded to them so that's always nice. I see your point and the desired result, so all good!
I go to the same climbing gyms as Yves, always thought his forearms were massive and he seemed really good. Never seen him climb much though, he teaches! Had no idea he was that good at climbing, holy crap.
Might have missed it, but how many times per week is a good general protocol for this exercise? 1-2 times I’d imagine? Also when/how often does he train the pinch grip, wrist wrench or roller? Trying to figure out a good way to incorporate these strength exercises into a weekly schedule. Cheers!
Im a strength coach so this may be different for climbers due to the tendon/muscular difference, but I could see this safely being done 3-4x per week with very little climbing, but of course as climbing frequency increases, supplemental exercise frequency must decrease to not cause an overload of fatigue. For instance, I could see someone climbing 2-3x per week, and armlifting 2-3x per week, but if one wants to climb 3-4x per week, they may be only able to armlift 1-2x per week while still recovering fully between sessions.
@@rickysmalldicky2319 Respect for being transparent about speaking outside of your expertise/field. Should be done more often. I'm myself not qualified in anything and am only a hobby climber that tries to learn from climbing experts. However, my understanding is that finger training is - as you rightly point out - quite different to ordinary "muscular" strength training partly because of finger tendons. I suspect that this, in turn, is partly explained by finger tendons supposedly growing slower than ordinary "muscle", especially in the forearms. So sometimes one's training load and muscle strength might outpace the tendon strength, this somehow resulting in injury. This is just what I gathered, though, so might be totally off. I would especially recommend Dave MacLeod, Ned Feehally & Lattice here for anything finger training. Also, I think you're absolutely right about training load though. Seems key to all training, and finger training seems fairly safe with the right intensity.
I really enjoying doing edge lifts on a 20mm with heavier weights and then also 10mm edge with full crimp and lower weight. It gives me a good way to slowly load full crimps and help me feel more comfortable crimping while climbing. Gradual increases in weight should help with injuries as well
I go through periods where I do these lifts 1-2 times per week. I try my absolute hardest and am increasing weight every week during a training period. It's very important that we try our hardest to get stronger. That being said, I'm interested to mix in some 80% effort, higher volume now that my one rep max is high
How protect your shoulder to.get so many weight? I heard from a physiotherapy that after reaching a weight finger boards demanding less than lifting. I love how practical is lifting thought, so easy to have in home
When Yves shows a chart of percentage max, that's a percentage of his one second (or so) pull, not the Lattice standard 5-second max hangboard hold. Is that right? What seems really different about this training as far as the forearms are concerned is not the pull (using big muscles) or whether you pull upwards or downwards. Rather it's that he doesn't hold as long as he can and then wait a long time (5 or 10 minutes as recommended in training finger power). Rather he does a powerful hold and rests a second and then repeats it four times; it's a pulsing sort of set. So this training perhaps most closely resembles campus boarding--which seems to get fingers strong--but is safer and more controlled. Or perhaps it's like a very short and powerful version of "repeaters" on a hangboard.
He mentions ramping up intensity and lowering reps before an event - how long before an event and what would this look like? How many days would he do this max routine? What is the cool down/rest period right before the event?
I have been doing an arm-lifting training program as part of a training program I made and it has been amazing for me! As someone who has been renting for years this has finally let me train at home, which is much easier to keep consistent than gym visits. The ability to train different grips at less-than-body-weight without pulleys is awesome. I have progressed my 20 mm hangs and 110 mm pinch by 5 kgs so far, can't wait to see if I can get some good impact with my leading. I feel my finger strength has been a lot lower than core and shoulder strength forever, but I have been wondering: when do I know if my shoulder strength is lagging behind my finger strength (before risking injury that is)? Do I rectify by accompanying my arm-lifts with some weighted shrugs, pullups, and rotator cuff exercises? Thanks!
Instead of investing in the new gear, one could simply stick to the hangboard but instead of hanging for x seconds, simply lift your feet off the ground for short moment (similar to the actual lift duration here in this video) and out them back down repeatedly - should give you a very similar effect....
Cool concept, since this borrows a lot from advanced powerlifting programming, i would presume someone new to this training could instead utilize progressive overload instead of percentages until plateauing?
My only question(s) is in regards to the form when using a crimp-block. Why is picking up the weights from the side considered bad form? It feels like a natural place for the shoulder to be in whereas the form described in the video seems like an unnatural position for the shoulder.
As the weight increases, by the side it begins to get very uncomfortable as well as placing imbalanced demands on other areas in your body which help to support the lift, such as your core
@@LatticeTraining Thanks for the response, I've been curious about this since I started seeing people use crimp-blocks/tension blocks. That makes total sense!
Hi Lattice, My 7 sec MAX is about 140 kg total load, 2-arm hang, 20 mm edge. I tried experimenting Yves method with a 20 mm portable hangboard and loading pin, as Yves suggested. After a progressive warm up: 50 kg I can do about 4/5 reps at consistent tempo with clean technique; at 60 kg it seems to exponentially get harder, barely 1 rep which is probably less than 3 sec under tension. I was expecting to lift 1/2 my 7 sec 1RM ( = 70 kg) . However it appears 10 kg way off. How can I know if I am loading the fingers at a comparable intensity than fingerboard max hangs?? Is it possible deadlifting is a bottleneck rather than fingers?
Hi Anthony. It can be possible that deadlifting is a bottleneck.. but.. If that is the case I would highly recommend working on your deadlifts considering this is a MUCH shorter range of motion compared to a standard deadlift. If you can deadlift at least 60kg (hopefully you can!) from the ground, the limiting factor won't be the deadlift. For reference, I can deadlift 250KG but when I started finger lifting, 60KG on a 20mm edge was difficult. The limiting factor for me was keeping my fingers engaged. I started finger lifting because my fingers were getting stronger than the muscles I use to keep my shoulders/scapula engaged during weighted hangs and my finger strength began to slowly plateau due to this . I now finger-lift 100kg but I can't hang with 200kg atm- it is not a direct translation and "practice how you play" is something to consider. So.. I basically eliminated my limiting variable for developing finger strength. I'm working on heavy shoulder engagement using a bar to fix my limiting factor in weighted hangs and finger lift on the side. Hope this was helpful. (I started finger lifting on 3/31/2023, my 1rm for each hand is 100kg).
Maybe to remove the deadlift element, you could measure on say a 10mm edge 2-hand-hang vs. 1-hand-no-hang and compare your results, just to see if the difference dissapears when your shoulders/back/etc are less loaded.
Why not just pull rubber fixed to the floor? Rubber will stretch and create force. Additionally some rope - to feel when you pulled hard enough. You can add "weight" adding more rubber or making rope longer. Actually pretty measurable, how many bands you need to pull for what length to achieve same "weight".
So Yves reccomend using the 20mm edge, wrist wrench and 3 inch pinch block. Should I do each exercise 4x4 @80% ? 3 times a week before climbing or in lieu of?
What's the difference in benefit between static grip position for the lift vs a range of motion finger curl? I understand you can lift more weight isometrically, but wouldn't a ROM build more hypertrophy?
The main difference is as you say, isometric (static) vs isotonic (dynamic) contraction. Typically we train our fingers isometrically so we can use an edge such as the one Yves uses, which makes for a very sports specific method of training. It is currently questionable whether we should train heavy finger curls with an edge because the eccentric action of tendons running over the pulleys in the fingers is not too far from the associated mechanism of pulley injuries when a foot slips for example. Doing heavy finger curls with a barbell, for example, which takes some load off the pulleys might be a much better option to use heavy weights in a dynamic muscle action. Great for hypertrophy as you say but likely less specific for generating maximum force in a climbing specific grip. Lots of nuance to finger training for climbers and it's far from fully understood at the moment.
@Lattice Training I've been experimenting with using the Tension Block 20 mm edge and a loading pin (similar setup), but with weights around 35 kg and doing isotonic finger curls. Trying to aim for a similar 4-5 rep range as Yves. So far, my fingers are feeling a bit less crunchy and tight, but I haven't done the exercises long enough (2x per week, on week 3) to see strength gains. Mostly the exercise is feeling easier to perform and the fatigue/doms isn't as intense. I can see how movement of the flexor against the pulleys under load could be dangerous. At the same time, adaptations in the pulleys are likely to occur, albeit slower than the muscular ones. I'll continue to try this exercise for 8 weeks and see if there's a noticeable difference in grip strength. BTW love your videos on different specific exercises for targeting climbing important muscles. The Copenhagen planks I think are gonna be a game changer. Definitely over indexed on finger and upper body and finally starting to work on strength and mobility in my lower body. I think as a slightly shorter climber (172 cm, +0) I've been less oriented on keeping foot tension as big moves sometimes don't allow me to keep the foot anyway. But there are plenty of moves where I should be able to keep the foot tension and I lack that coordination and strength.
To add, isotonic finger curls are likely problematic for the pulleys and provide little to not benefit for finger strength, but the concentric portion or doing isometric overcoming exercises is extremely valuable because we no longer rely on the locking mechanism of the pulleys from an isometric yielding hang (this locking is what makes eccentrics a poor choice). However, the one issue is the need for edge and weight testing to make sure you target flexion of more than the MCP joint as you will find heavy weights and the extension action of the DIP means we are predominantly pulling through the MCP joint to move whatever edge and weight. Applications for drag style grips, but less for smaller edge finger strength.
@Zachary Laschober why is concentric ok but isotonic potentially injury causing? I don't know of too many other strength exercises where the eccentric portion is eliminated. Isn't a controlled eccentric a standard tool in strength building?
@@davidnackerman as noted, it’s the pulleys locking against the flexor tendon under heavy loads. If you flex the fingers with an appropriate weight, you’ll notice opening the fingers becomes a jerking motion, and near a concentric max you’ll find this rather sudden and difficult to control. The fingers are somewhat unique structures, not the muscles in the forearm as they respond in the same way any other muscle does, this just becomes limiting. As well, the eccentric portion of isotonics is of far less value because you’re much stronger in eccentrics, enough that except with near maximal efforts you’re probably well below even 70% of your eccentric max. Eccentric overloads are “great”, and being in control for continuous repetitions is important rather than just releasing the bar or whatever haphazardly.
For max strenght the science says 3-15 min for strenght training. It is important that all sets have the same quality as the previous one. If one rep I would go for ~7 min rest, for 5-6 reps I would go for ~5 min rest. I never go below 5 min myself to ensure max gains. Reason for "only" 7 min for 1rep is that it is not deadlifts we are doing, its a small muscle group but thats based on bro-science so dont take my word for it. Try it out and make sure that each set is as good quality as the previous one.
@@bumbipungen While i do agree with you, yves apparently only rests 2-4 minutes between working sets. Seems super short to me for strength training but it works well i suppose
I have one in my house and the only dificult I have sometimes is that felt my shoulder/upper is not prepared to pull as many my fingers can. On hangboard body looks more prepared because we always do "pull ups" climbing or in a bar. My phisio also told me body was construct to do more force pulling up than lifiting (in general). Any tip to overcome this?
For this session it would be completing one full lift i.e. lifting the edge to a standing position and back down. Similar to a deadlift. But we're only lifting the weight a few inches in this case. Also a good 1RM for training purposes, you also want to keep your grip position the same throughout, no uncurling of the fingers for example.
I’ve always wondered, wouldn’t it be better to do all these lifts from a cable machine so you can actually pull with downwards/retraction scapular motion witch relates more to climbing?
I’ve been wondering the same thing about finger training. Including a pulling motion always seems so much more challenging than just a press with the legs to weight the hold - although I do really appreciate the discussion of form here.
I think the benefit of this is how much it isolates the finger flexors, with any overhead pull you'll also be engaging a of bigger muscles where as this lift is so mechanically advantageous for your body that you're unlikely to struggle with anything other than your fingers.
I would think so, I like best one arm rows (support with the other arm)if I lift something. I dont like so much compression on the back. But I am no expert.
Yes, depending of course. A lot of our athletes do some form of hangboard before climbing to get recruited etc. So this is no different. Training history is important though, so you should become accustomed to the session before combining it with other forms of training.
im excited to try this out tomorrow, i was introduced to a method where you pull as hard as you can on a hangboard with one arm for 4 seconds,off, then 4 seconds, and rest in between for a couple minutes and repeat that 4x . is there any difference between me using that exact format with a weight i can hold versus going up and down for 1 second 8x like mentioned in this video? ( hope this makes sense)
in what way is this content new or life changing for climbers? training for climbing by eric hörst already prescribes only a few reps at high intensity for max strength without hypertrophy, or am i missing something here? edit: i think the title is somewhat misleading/clickbaity...
Not yves or any sort of authority, but personally I don't think its overly important, I do them as often as I deload (once every 6-8 weeks), but in that short a time frame my max will only increase by at MOST 2.5-5 pounds, which will affect the weight of my sets minimally. Doing 90 pounds instead of 92.5 or 95 for an extra few weeks isn't going to make a big difference in your strength gains. Consistency is much more important. If you suddenly feel way stronger or your working weight feels super easy for 3-4 sessions in a row you can always retest. Like I said its not going to make a gigantic difference if you short change your intensity by 2.5 pounds for a couple weeks, so don't worry too much about it.
Great video and guess I have some related questions: - is the one rep max always the same? ie are we looking to continually improve it so that the x% might shift up? - if so is that during or after the training cycle? - how long is a training cycle for these exercises?
Thanks Morgan! The answer to the first question is yes, the intention is to increase 1RM. So the relative % will increase over time. But you'd need to retest 1RM to be accurate. Instead of testing all the time Yves mentions just performing extra reps if you feel like your strength is increasing. Typically you'd look to retest at the end of a training cycle but the length of a training cycle really depends on the individual and their goals.
Great video, thanks as always for the brilliant free content. What are your thoughts on Yves using an open crimp/chisel grip for his lifts? Did he mention any specific reason for this grip type for this type of protocol? I’m mainly curious because I personally favor an open crimp grip for training over the half crimp and it’s good to see someone like Yves using this grip type too. Thanks
Thanks Luke! I don't believe Yves mentioned this actually. But I assume Yves is using his strongest grip (remember he's specifically training to lift the heaviest weights possible) and the open crimp can be the strongest for people. With the index and pinkie finger extended but all 4 fingers on, its mechanically a very strong grip. Training solely for climbing however we feel it is important to train all grip types that relate to our goals. For most people this means training multiple grip types. It would be interesting to go back to Yves to discuss training different grip positions! Maybe a future video :D
@@LatticeTraining Thanks for the reply! Would definitely be good if you dived into the grip types a bit more at some point on a video or podcast. I’m always very interested in peoples thoughts on this grip as an alternative to half crimp. I personally find myself mainly training in open crimp due to half crimp max hangs just feeling tweaky on my middle finger A2’s to the point of them straining multiple times over the years and never really finding myself getting stronger in that grip. I can really push open crimp hangs with higher loads despite the middle finger being in a half crimp position in both grip types. Kinda strange but maybe a finger position /length thing? I have spoke to others who have a similar issue too. Don’t suppose you’ve discussed this sort of thing in any videos or podcasts before that you could share? Thanks
@@lukeowens9337 I don't believe we have any one resource that goes into the details but it will be mentioned here and there. One of the biggest factor is individual variation in finger length/proportions, like you say. This is one reason we'll all have different preferences.
Great question. I think this is simialr to the common questions of 'max hangs vs repeaters'. If looking at your own training, the answer will depend on how you respond to the exercise and how specific it is to your goals. Then a balance should be found. For most people max hangs are a tried and test method of training, however changing up the exercises or including new ones is a great way to break plateaus or find a novel training stimulus. The method is also very accessible for those looking to start a more trageted form of finger strength training but is not confident hanging from a hangboard. Although Yves is using a lot of weight, we can use much less to slowly build up over time.
It’s quite a bit nicer once the sheer amount of weight you hang is high. It’s less risky in terms of injury for the shoulders (shoulder in a neutral position and does not have to be engaged like when finger boarding), and is easier to manage when using a lot of weight (easier to pick up a bunch of weight rather than walk around with it attached to you)
I love how lattice repeats what yves says as if we dont understand english 😅. He is literally speaking very simple plain english so why interrupt him.. they could of just included more of what yves said instead of just repeating it like we are babies who need our hands held.
Thank you for the honest feedback. We try really hard to provide our community with high quality and free training advice to support our fellow climbers, but we are only human and clearly didn't get it right this time. Here is the uncut version if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
Yes exactly. I think the main difference comes from the force profile the fingers will experience, although still isometric. And the fact each contraction is very short means we can reach really high levels of peak force.
Yup, still isometric yielding (I think Josh says concentric somewhere earlier), however there are far more variations which can be safely performed lifting such as these more rapid lifts and plenty of changes to tempo and time under tension and such. I have found this a little like a deadlift in the first rep is slow to engage then those after can become much faster despite completely unloading the grip.
@@zacharylaschober Nice. Not sure if I want to spring for the pin and board when I can just hangboard but will keep an eye out in future, seems like I'd prefer it to standard isometrics
@@thenayancat8802 quick suggestion is simply sling weights into a stack and consider for a period unmounting your hangboard and drilling some holes front to back of the board to accommodate 4mm perlon. Sling works on kettlebells, dumbbells, and while bigger plates are less stable I’ve been doing stacks of 35s with just a sling girth hitched on the bottom then knotted at the top of the plates. Has worked enough that I don’t even bring out the loading pin anymore.
This will vary a fair bit between individuals, but for most people once to twice a week is likely appropriate. If you are unsure then it will be safest to begin with once a week 💪
Thank you for the feedback, we've had this feedback quite a bit, so I guess we didn't quite get it right on this one! Thanks for continuing to support our channel and here is the uncut version if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
@@LatticeTraining I think if it was less recap and more additional information it would rock. Always happy to support kind people striving for success.
Great, that was very interesting! I didn't know there was such a thing as "arm-lifting" haha. I'm not surprised that training for that would translate well to climbing though! btw, did anyone else cringe just a tiny bit everytime Josh didn't drop the s in Yves? Or am I the only accent snob here :P
I never trained on a hangboard, but I recently bought a lifting pin to train my fingers while resting my shoulders and used the max hang protocol that was explained in your video th-cam.com/video/yUIRzwyQx_E/w-d-xo.html (which means I started with 6x10s 80% maximum weight). I dont have any specific goals, just want to get better at climbing and start being able to hang on my fingers, so I'm unsure if this version of short bursts of loading, or the longer time under tension you explained in your hangboard for beginners guide is better. It would be nice to know the pros and applications of both training protocols (or maybe it doesnt matter?) Thanks for the video, was great :D
Good to know ! From what I understand, the idea is that lifting multiples times with little time under tension is more specific to climbing than isometric holds. In my mind we could compare protocol to a contact strenght exercice like catching a rung (two arms or one arm) multiple times. I think it Would be interesting to compare Yves's méthode to classic isometric max hangs AND rung catches. Looking forward to some databased comparaison soon ! I'm going to try out his method with the lattice lifting edge.
Hi all! Thanks for all of the feedback on this video so far. We really appreciate feedback in everything that we do at Lattice and we want you to know that we are listening.
Firstly let us apologise to anyone that feels we have repeated/interrupted Yves along the way. This certainly was not our intention. We aimed to simply expand, contextualise and in some cases simplify the information from Yves, to make the information easily digestible for a wider audience.
For context: The original video from Yves was recorded for our coaches, as part of our ongoing internal coach education and this TH-cam edit aimed to share the 'best bits' with you - our community. The extra bits from coach Josh were so that the edit did not feel disjointed and followed some form of direction i.e. set up, session, interpretation.
It’s clear that many of you did not feel this was obvious from this video.
So we have uploaded the raw uncut/uneditted footage from Yves here for any of you that are interested in seeing the original video: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
Furthermore, if you are looking for more great free content from Lattice and Yves, be sure to check out our recent podcast interview with him here: latticetraining.com/2022/03/26/yves-gravelle/
Thank you for continuing to support our channel, so that we can continue to support you 😊
Fuck the haters and keep on rolling with the sick vids. Cheers for a banging edit.
I thought your edit was great and did a good job contextualizing everything.
i found the parts with josh sumerasing very good! as it makes the whole thing more clear.
it would be very intresting to dive deeper about the training method of short lifts as oposed to isometric max hangs.
i supose his training will stiffen the tendons and make him perform beter, but does it not increase risk of injury?
i saw some researsh talking about this stuf, would love lattice to give its perpective
The video format is good. Yves video was for one audience, and this video was made for another, different audience while also being made to be more presentable while restating then expanding on important points. I found it very valuable.
I would love a summary slide at key points in the video in the future to help summarize key learnings at logical breaks. This helps make the content of the video a little bit more digestible.
Yves is a legend. So great to see him on the Lattice channel! Hearing about his methodical approach to training always gives fantastic insight and inspiration.
We think so too! Yves has said he's keen for more collaborations so we'll hopefully be bringing you more content in the future! 😄
This video was golden. Yves clearly knows his stuff. Thank him for sharing.
I really like this format. I for one really appreciate the value of good editing and having a second voice in an educational video. I get that there is also value in having access to the basically uncut version, but the added value of a trained second expert speaker syncing with the underlying video is of great value. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Larry, it means a lot 😊 Here is the uncut version if you were interested in seeing more from Yves: th-cam.com/video/nhyk765nw-8/w-d-xo.html
@@LatticeTraining Has Yves mentioned how often to itterate between grip holds? Should we do the 18mm crimp one week, then the other week do the brick?
@@LatticeTraining Link is not working
@@LatticeTraininglink doesn't work unfortunately
I would love to watch Yves video without the interruptions. And maybe have some sort of conclusion at the end.
Hmm okay, good to know! The original video was recorded for our Lattice coaches and the point of this edit is that we stripped out all the 'best bits' for our community and viewers with Yves agreement. Although it may not seem like it, we put a lot of work in to make this video concise and simple but we appreciate the more experienced climbers and trainers want all the info uninterpreted
@@LatticeTraining I thought you all did a nice job. I think a quick summary/conclusion bit at the end might have been a good touch as there was a lot of info in this.
@@jeremiahjahn Thanks for the feedback, it's very much appreciated. If anyone is interested in the uncut version from Yves, we've uploaded it here: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
Would you use the same method of measuring your max hang on a hang board as you would for lifting in the way Yves was in the video or would Yves use a different method?
i would've loved to watch the uncut video from yves :) some really good information there!
Okay good to know! We will have a look at uploading the uncut footage, seems lots of people want to see it - we will reply to our pinned comment with the link once it's available (takes a good while to upload) 💪
Here is the uncut version if you are interested 😊th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
To build on the point about not training to exhaustion... If you use all your energy with your training, it can be very difficult for your body to have enough energy, or get enough energy from food, to optimize for a good recovery. By training to exhaustion you compromise your ability to recover, and recovery is when you make your gains, this is a pretty profound insight.
It's impossible to use all your energy. What does it even mean? There is a point where more training is not better but it's not "energy". If your body has no energy left, it's dead.
The whole basis of muscular hypertrophy , strength and tendon and ligament strength is MMF - momentary muscle failure.
I have been training consistently since the early 1980s. At 66 I am setting PBs for finger strength and endurance and close to my first 8b+ (which will be a first ascent). 31 years at 5.13 with zero injuries. I have lots of "old man wisdom" on this stuff, in part due to my also coaching and competing track athletics.
Lets go! Keep crushing and being an inspiration to everyone!
Wait, is this really Bryan Burdo on TH-cam?!
@@DrSenorFishTacos I would rather be on my projects!
@@idomintser6922 47 years in and the fun has just begun!
@@terraflow__bryanburdo4547 lmao and he even replied to my comment! What an honor! I've been climbing in WA for the past 10 years and have had the pleasure of climbing many of your routes.
What I don't really see in this video is what the title hints at- that this method is a game changer. I would have expected a comparison to other finger training methods and discussion of how it is a game changer and/or when it's appropriate vs overhead hangs.
Josh says at 11:35 that the arm-lifting training is much more specific to rock climbing than isometric training (hanging from a board). I think arm lifitng might be safer and easier to adjust compared to hangboarding. But yeah, they could stress the point a bit better.
Obviously the title is overselling it for people to click. I doubt that in a well balanced climbing training it would be superior to hangboarding. The fact that it's more specific than hangboarding IMO is moot because you want to be climbing on top of strength training anyway.
For me the big benefit is that I find it way more fun. As someone that likes weight training I find it far more satisfying doing block lifts than hanging from an edge, and at the end of the day it's usually the training you actually enjoy that stick around and makes improvements in the long term.
A lot of great info here. Felt a bit wierd to repeat every point he was making.
Yeah i would love the original video on its own, and maybe comments or analysis and a training plan afterwards.
I actually skipped the lattice parts
Hi noone, thanks for commenting, glad you enjoyed the info from Yves! Apologies if the video came across in this way, our intention was not to repeat but rather expand, contextualise and in some cases simplify the information from Yves for a wider audience. The OG video from Yves was recorded for our coaches, as part of our ongoing internal education and this TH-cam edit's aim was to share the 'best bits' with our community and viewers. The extra bits from me (coach Josh) were so that the edit did not feel disjointed and followed some form of direction i.e. set up, session, interpretation. It may not seen like it on the surface, but we did do a fair bit of editing and reordering to make it flow and follow this structure, it's a shame it didn't come across in that way. Hopefully there is still some good value and takeaways from this video.
Here is the uncut version if our format didn't quite hit the mark for anyone: th-cam.com/video/nhyk765nw-8/w-d-xo.html 😊
@@LatticeTraining Is this the right link? Not working for me
I'm 2 mn in and 20 sec. Same thought. I'll find the original video .
I cant watch an other sec of this.
But i am ok for others who need it.😅
I have been doing a slighlty different training protocoll with the tension block for the last 2 months and my finger feel so good damn good right now! I´ve been climbing for about 5 years and completed at least a dozen overhead hangboard cycles in the last couple of years but adding this training session before my kilter session made me jump an entire grade! Give this a go if you want strong fingers
How does your crimp block sessioj goes exactly ? Hold size, time under tension, rest, reps, sets.. :)
@@n.c4692 first do a testing session! then i did the following: 40%,50%,60%,70% 1 set each. 1 set is 4 reps off 3 sec holding (12sec tut). then followed by 4 set of 4 reps with 80%, 3 secs holding
All on 20mm edge. 2mins rest for the warmup set. 2:30-3:00 for working sets. Whole workout takes around 25mins.
Super cool training stimulus. Thanks for sharing, Lattice! Also, appreciated the format of the video - splicing in Josh to explain certain elements and expand on them was helpful for me.
Qc represent, Yves is a beast.
If your loading pin is too tall you can set up raised platforms to stand on to elevate your body or simply adjust the length of the chord on the lifting implement.
Yves has mentioned that he takes his programming from a lot of places, but one of the big ones is Boris Sheiko from the powerlifting area. Sheiko has some interesting ideas that I'd love to hear analyzed for climbing. I think his most approachable work in english is "Powerlifting Foundations and methods"
yves is an absolute monster - good info.
Couldn't agree more! We love talking to Yves... Be sure to catch up on our recent podcast interiew with him, if you haven't already: latticetraining.com/2022/03/26/yves-gravelle/ 💪
Excellent content!
Merci à Yves pour la vidéo très pertinente!
Thank you for sharing valuable information.
the lattice product placements and interruptions are annoying at times, but i‘m happy about this insight into yves training.
Thanks for this video. I had an idea a few weeks ago to run 5/3/1 wave periodisation, which is typically used in intermediate powerlifting, on the portable hangboard. This video from Yves confirms it can deliver results. Yves is basically running a very customised ad-hoc version of wave periodisation with all the bells and whistles that powerlifters add on like Joker sets, pyramids, AMRAPs, deloads, peaking, and so on. And the beauty of the portable hangboard is that it removes the fluctuations of your bodyweight from the training.
One would now have to wonder if more intelligent programming like concurrency or undulation work work even better...but seeing as most of us are not arm-lifting 100 kg, any program is going to deliver good results.
Maybe we start running Smolov for the finger deadlifts haha
@@jrashad it's just so crazy that it just might work 😅
I liked the content a lot. Just my opinion, but I did not enjoy the repetitiveness of it, but I saw you guys read the other comments with similar feeling and responded to them so that's always nice. I see your point and the desired result, so all good!
Thanks for highlighting Yves and these methods. Such good info.
Thanks Henry! ☺️
I go to the same climbing gyms as Yves, always thought his forearms were massive and he seemed really good. Never seen him climb much though, he teaches! Had no idea he was that good at climbing, holy crap.
Been waiting for this vid since march 2022 when the interview with Yves first dropped!
Same here 😀
Might have missed it, but how many times per week is a good general protocol for this exercise? 1-2 times I’d imagine?
Also when/how often does he train the pinch grip, wrist wrench or roller?
Trying to figure out a good way to incorporate these strength exercises into a weekly schedule. Cheers!
I think this is really the only thing they missed putting I. The video was maybe som examples of frequency and when to train this.
Im a strength coach so this may be different for climbers due to the tendon/muscular difference, but I could see this safely being done 3-4x per week with very little climbing, but of course as climbing frequency increases, supplemental exercise frequency must decrease to not cause an overload of fatigue. For instance, I could see someone climbing 2-3x per week, and armlifting 2-3x per week, but if one wants to climb 3-4x per week, they may be only able to armlift 1-2x per week while still recovering fully between sessions.
@@rickysmalldicky2319 Respect for being transparent about speaking outside of your expertise/field. Should be done more often. I'm myself not qualified in anything and am only a hobby climber that tries to learn from climbing experts. However, my understanding is that finger training is - as you rightly point out - quite different to ordinary "muscular" strength training partly because of finger tendons. I suspect that this, in turn, is partly explained by finger tendons supposedly growing slower than ordinary "muscle", especially in the forearms. So sometimes one's training load and muscle strength might outpace the tendon strength, this somehow resulting in injury. This is just what I gathered, though, so might be totally off. I would especially recommend Dave MacLeod, Ned Feehally & Lattice here for anything finger training. Also, I think you're absolutely right about training load though. Seems key to all training, and finger training seems fairly safe with the right intensity.
Could you guys maybe do a video on how to safely finding your max on certain training things like this, hangboard, etc?
This was amazing! Thanks to everyone involved!
Thanks Ryan!
Yves forearm development is phenomenal. Would love for him to visit my Grip Museum.
The video is great, but the lattice chat in between Yves video is totally pointless. Not sure what it adds ?
I really enjoying doing edge lifts on a 20mm with heavier weights and then also 10mm edge with full crimp and lower weight. It gives me a good way to slowly load full crimps and help me feel more comfortable crimping while climbing. Gradual increases in weight should help with injuries as well
I go through periods where I do these lifts 1-2 times per week. I try my absolute hardest and am increasing weight every week during a training period. It's very important that we try our hardest to get stronger.
That being said, I'm interested to mix in some 80% effort, higher volume now that my one rep max is high
How protect your shoulder to.get so many weight? I heard from a physiotherapy that after reaching a weight finger boards demanding less than lifting.
I love how practical is lifting thought, so easy to have in home
That’s was very informative video ! Thanks guys !
Thanks 😊
When Yves shows a chart of percentage max, that's a percentage of his one second (or so) pull, not the Lattice standard 5-second max hangboard hold. Is that right? What seems really different about this training as far as the forearms are concerned is not the pull (using big muscles) or whether you pull upwards or downwards. Rather it's that he doesn't hold as long as he can and then wait a long time (5 or 10 minutes as recommended in training finger power). Rather he does a powerful hold and rests a second and then repeats it four times; it's a pulsing sort of set. So this training perhaps most closely resembles campus boarding--which seems to get fingers strong--but is safer and more controlled. Or perhaps it's like a very short and powerful version of "repeaters" on a hangboard.
Thank you for sharing ! Can’t wait to try
Thanks Daling 😊
Anyone know the name of the wooden grip training block he's using?
I don't know whether I'm more distracted by Yves forearms or the Puccio poster
I've learned nothing
He mentions ramping up intensity and lowering reps before an event - how long before an event and what would this look like? How many days would he do this max routine? What is the cool down/rest period right before the event?
Lets go Yves tabarnak !!
😂😂😂
What's the name of the portabel Hangboard Yves is using at the beginning of the video?
Yves is a fucking beast!!
How many times a week should you do this routine
And how many times if I want to incorporate one hangborad session?
Does anybody know the name of the wooden block Yves uses?
V-Mobs, made in Quebec
you can straddle two benches to allow use of legs
I have been doing an arm-lifting training program as part of a training program I made and it has been amazing for me! As someone who has been renting for years this has finally let me train at home, which is much easier to keep consistent than gym visits. The ability to train different grips at less-than-body-weight without pulleys is awesome. I have progressed my 20 mm hangs and 110 mm pinch by 5 kgs so far, can't wait to see if I can get some good impact with my leading.
I feel my finger strength has been a lot lower than core and shoulder strength forever, but I have been wondering: when do I know if my shoulder strength is lagging behind my finger strength (before risking injury that is)? Do I rectify by accompanying my arm-lifts with some weighted shrugs, pullups, and rotator cuff exercises? Thanks!
Instead of investing in the new gear, one could simply stick to the hangboard but instead of hanging for x seconds, simply lift your feet off the ground for short moment (similar to the actual lift duration here in this video) and out them back down repeatedly - should give you a very similar effect....
Cool concept, since this borrows a lot from advanced powerlifting programming, i would presume someone new to this training could instead utilize progressive overload instead of percentages until plateauing?
Where can I buy the portable hangboard Yves is using in the video?
dear lattice,
from doing this i get a crazy leg-pump, although i try not to go too far above the ground. any opinion this?
thank you,
niklas
My only question(s) is in regards to the form when using a crimp-block. Why is picking up the weights from the side considered bad form? It feels like a natural place for the shoulder to be in whereas the form described in the video seems like an unnatural position for the shoulder.
As the weight increases, by the side it begins to get very uncomfortable as well as placing imbalanced demands on other areas in your body which help to support the lift, such as your core
@@LatticeTraining Thanks for the response, I've been curious about this since I started seeing people use crimp-blocks/tension blocks. That makes total sense!
Hi Lattice,
My 7 sec MAX is about 140 kg total load, 2-arm hang, 20 mm edge. I tried experimenting Yves method with a 20 mm portable hangboard and loading pin, as Yves suggested. After a progressive warm up: 50 kg I can do about 4/5 reps at consistent tempo with clean technique; at 60 kg it seems to exponentially get harder, barely 1 rep which is probably less than 3 sec under tension. I was expecting to lift 1/2 my 7 sec 1RM ( = 70 kg) . However it appears 10 kg way off. How can I know if I am loading the fingers at a comparable intensity than fingerboard max hangs?? Is it possible deadlifting is a bottleneck rather than fingers?
Hi Anthony. It can be possible that deadlifting is a bottleneck.. but.. If that is the case I would highly recommend working on your deadlifts considering this is a MUCH shorter range of motion compared to a standard deadlift. If you can deadlift at least 60kg (hopefully you can!) from the ground, the limiting factor won't be the deadlift. For reference, I can deadlift 250KG but when I started finger lifting, 60KG on a 20mm edge was difficult. The limiting factor for me was keeping my fingers engaged. I started finger lifting because my fingers were getting stronger than the muscles I use to keep my shoulders/scapula engaged during weighted hangs and my finger strength began to slowly plateau due to this . I now finger-lift 100kg but I can't hang with 200kg atm- it is not a direct translation and "practice how you play" is something to consider. So.. I basically eliminated my limiting variable for developing finger strength. I'm working on heavy shoulder engagement using a bar to fix my limiting factor in weighted hangs and finger lift on the side. Hope this was helpful. (I started finger lifting on 3/31/2023, my 1rm for each hand is 100kg).
@@FunctionalFitnessFreak Thanks for your tip. Isolating shoulder and fingers sounds a good training strategy. Btw, impressive benchmarks from yours!
Maybe to remove the deadlift element, you could measure on say a 10mm edge 2-hand-hang vs. 1-hand-no-hang and compare your results, just to see if the difference dissapears when your shoulders/back/etc are less loaded.
Where to buy such a training tool at 1:45 ?
The real reason why he's this strong is that Alex Puccio poster!
Great content! How long does he rest between the sets?
Thanks 😊. Rest is generally 2-4 mins
can i attach my tension block to a cable machine
Great video, but why not train maximum holds or repeaters this way?
Why not just pull rubber fixed to the floor? Rubber will stretch and create force. Additionally some rope - to feel when you pulled hard enough. You can add "weight" adding more rubber or making rope longer. Actually pretty measurable, how many bands you need to pull for what length to achieve same "weight".
What about tools besides portable hangboard? How to combine it all into weekly schedule?
This is quite a big question to answer. We'll have a think about doing a video of programming finger and wrist training.
So Yves reccomend using the 20mm edge, wrist wrench and 3 inch pinch block. Should I do each exercise 4x4 @80% ? 3 times a week before climbing or in lieu of?
Would you consider doing this in replacement to hangboarding ?
Great video - what is the boulder in the first clip with the huge swing around 33 s?
I think that one is Widowmaker V13 in Quebec.
What's the difference in benefit between static grip position for the lift vs a range of motion finger curl? I understand you can lift more weight isometrically, but wouldn't a ROM build more hypertrophy?
The main difference is as you say, isometric (static) vs isotonic (dynamic) contraction. Typically we train our fingers isometrically so we can use an edge such as the one Yves uses, which makes for a very sports specific method of training. It is currently questionable whether we should train heavy finger curls with an edge because the eccentric action of tendons running over the pulleys in the fingers is not too far from the associated mechanism of pulley injuries when a foot slips for example. Doing heavy finger curls with a barbell, for example, which takes some load off the pulleys might be a much better option to use heavy weights in a dynamic muscle action. Great for hypertrophy as you say but likely less specific for generating maximum force in a climbing specific grip. Lots of nuance to finger training for climbers and it's far from fully understood at the moment.
@Lattice Training I've been experimenting with using the Tension Block 20 mm edge and a loading pin (similar setup), but with weights around 35 kg and doing isotonic finger curls. Trying to aim for a similar 4-5 rep range as Yves. So far, my fingers are feeling a bit less crunchy and tight, but I haven't done the exercises long enough (2x per week, on week 3) to see strength gains. Mostly the exercise is feeling easier to perform and the fatigue/doms isn't as intense.
I can see how movement of the flexor against the pulleys under load could be dangerous. At the same time, adaptations in the pulleys are likely to occur, albeit slower than the muscular ones.
I'll continue to try this exercise for 8 weeks and see if there's a noticeable difference in grip strength.
BTW love your videos on different specific exercises for targeting climbing important muscles. The Copenhagen planks I think are gonna be a game changer. Definitely over indexed on finger and upper body and finally starting to work on strength and mobility in my lower body. I think as a slightly shorter climber (172 cm, +0) I've been less oriented on keeping foot tension as big moves sometimes don't allow me to keep the foot anyway. But there are plenty of moves where I should be able to keep the foot tension and I lack that coordination and strength.
To add, isotonic finger curls are likely problematic for the pulleys and provide little to not benefit for finger strength, but the concentric portion or doing isometric overcoming exercises is extremely valuable because we no longer rely on the locking mechanism of the pulleys from an isometric yielding hang (this locking is what makes eccentrics a poor choice). However, the one issue is the need for edge and weight testing to make sure you target flexion of more than the MCP joint as you will find heavy weights and the extension action of the DIP means we are predominantly pulling through the MCP joint to move whatever edge and weight. Applications for drag style grips, but less for smaller edge finger strength.
@Zachary Laschober why is concentric ok but isotonic potentially injury causing? I don't know of too many other strength exercises where the eccentric portion is eliminated. Isn't a controlled eccentric a standard tool in strength building?
@@davidnackerman as noted, it’s the pulleys locking against the flexor tendon under heavy loads. If you flex the fingers with an appropriate weight, you’ll notice opening the fingers becomes a jerking motion, and near a concentric max you’ll find this rather sudden and difficult to control. The fingers are somewhat unique structures, not the muscles in the forearm as they respond in the same way any other muscle does, this just becomes limiting. As well, the eccentric portion of isotonics is of far less value because you’re much stronger in eccentrics, enough that except with near maximal efforts you’re probably well below even 70% of your eccentric max. Eccentric overloads are “great”, and being in control for continuous repetitions is important rather than just releasing the bar or whatever haphazardly.
what is the resting time between sets? great video!
is it usefull to hold the position for around 5 seconds like you would with a hangbaord?
Hey what's the best way to warm up your fingers for training like this and climbing in general?
Not sure if it was mentioned, I might have missed it but what rest time would you suggest between sets?
For max strenght the science says 3-15 min for strenght training. It is important that all sets have the same quality as the previous one. If one rep I would go for ~7 min rest, for 5-6 reps I would go for ~5 min rest. I never go below 5 min myself to ensure max gains. Reason for "only" 7 min for 1rep is that it is not deadlifts we are doing, its a small muscle group but thats based on bro-science so dont take my word for it. Try it out and make sure that each set is as good quality as the previous one.
@@bumbipungen
While i do agree with you, yves apparently only rests 2-4 minutes between working sets. Seems super short to me for strength training but it works well i suppose
I have one in my house and the only dificult I have sometimes is that felt my shoulder/upper is not prepared to pull as many my fingers can. On hangboard body looks more prepared because we always do "pull ups" climbing or in a bar. My phisio also told me body was construct to do more force pulling up than lifiting (in general). Any tip to overcome this?
I think the format is okay, though maybe a bit overdigested for my personal liking.
Is there a special way to identify your one rep max?
For this session it would be completing one full lift i.e. lifting the edge to a standing position and back down. Similar to a deadlift. But we're only lifting the weight a few inches in this case. Also a good 1RM for training purposes, you also want to keep your grip position the same throughout, no uncurling of the fingers for example.
I found it "over digested" too.
Yves explains very clearly what he is doing.
Yves is so freaking strong!!
For sure! 💪
Does anyone know what portable hangboard he's using? Sure the brand doesn't matter, but if I'm going to get one anyway I might as well get his one :D
Someone below said that it is "V-Mobs, made in Quebec"
I’ve always wondered, wouldn’t it be better to do all these lifts from a cable machine so you can actually pull with downwards/retraction scapular motion witch relates more to climbing?
I’ve been wondering the same thing about finger training. Including a pulling motion always seems so much more challenging than just a press with the legs to weight the hold - although I do really appreciate the discussion of form here.
I think the benefit of this is how much it isolates the finger flexors, with any overhead pull you'll also be engaging a of bigger muscles where as this lift is so mechanically advantageous for your body that you're unlikely to struggle with anything other than your fingers.
I would think so, I like best one arm rows (support with the other arm)if I lift something. I dont like so much compression on the back. But I am no expert.
I understand the answer is dependent on many factors, but, would this be alright to do before a climbing session?
Yes, depending of course. A lot of our athletes do some form of hangboard before climbing to get recruited etc. So this is no different. Training history is important though, so you should become accustomed to the session before combining it with other forms of training.
im excited to try this out tomorrow, i was introduced to a method where you pull as hard as you can on a hangboard with one arm for 4 seconds,off, then 4 seconds, and rest in between for a couple minutes and repeat that 4x . is there any difference between me using that exact format with a weight i can hold versus going up and down for 1 second 8x like mentioned in this video? ( hope this makes sense)
in what way is this content new or life changing for climbers? training for climbing by eric hörst already prescribes only a few reps at high intensity for max strength without hypertrophy, or am i missing something here?
edit: i think the title is somewhat misleading/clickbaity...
Max efforts are referred to a lot, do you have any tips for when / how to fit these measurements into training?
Not yves or any sort of authority, but personally I don't think its overly important, I do them as often as I deload (once every 6-8 weeks), but in that short a time frame my max will only increase by at MOST 2.5-5 pounds, which will affect the weight of my sets minimally. Doing 90 pounds instead of 92.5 or 95 for an extra few weeks isn't going to make a big difference in your strength gains. Consistency is much more important.
If you suddenly feel way stronger or your working weight feels super easy for 3-4 sessions in a row you can always retest. Like I said its not going to make a gigantic difference if you short change your intensity by 2.5 pounds for a couple weeks, so don't worry too much about it.
Anyone know what brand that wood block he used is ? The portable hangboard where he says he recommended any brand 😅
V-Mobs, made in Quebec
Great video and guess I have some related questions:
- is the one rep max always the same? ie are we looking to continually improve it so that the x% might shift up?
- if so is that during or after the training cycle?
- how long is a training cycle for these exercises?
Thanks Morgan! The answer to the first question is yes, the intention is to increase 1RM. So the relative % will increase over time. But you'd need to retest 1RM to be accurate. Instead of testing all the time Yves mentions just performing extra reps if you feel like your strength is increasing. Typically you'd look to retest at the end of a training cycle but the length of a training cycle really depends on the individual and their goals.
Great video, thanks as always for the brilliant free content.
What are your thoughts on Yves using an open crimp/chisel grip for his lifts? Did he mention any specific reason for this grip type for this type of protocol?
I’m mainly curious because I personally favor an open crimp grip for training over the half crimp and it’s good to see someone like Yves using this grip type too. Thanks
Thanks Luke! I don't believe Yves mentioned this actually. But I assume Yves is using his strongest grip (remember he's specifically training to lift the heaviest weights possible) and the open crimp can be the strongest for people. With the index and pinkie finger extended but all 4 fingers on, its mechanically a very strong grip. Training solely for climbing however we feel it is important to train all grip types that relate to our goals. For most people this means training multiple grip types. It would be interesting to go back to Yves to discuss training different grip positions! Maybe a future video :D
@@LatticeTraining Thanks for the reply! Would definitely be good if you dived into the grip types a bit more at some point on a video or podcast. I’m always very interested in peoples thoughts on this grip as an alternative to half crimp.
I personally find myself mainly training in open crimp due to half crimp max hangs just feeling tweaky on my middle finger A2’s to the point of them straining multiple times over the years and never really finding myself getting stronger in that grip.
I can really push open crimp hangs with higher loads despite the middle finger being in a half crimp position in both grip types. Kinda strange but maybe a finger position /length thing? I have spoke to others who have a similar issue too.
Don’t suppose you’ve discussed this sort of thing in any videos or podcasts before that you could share? Thanks
@@lukeowens9337 I don't believe we have any one resource that goes into the details but it will be mentioned here and there. One of the biggest factor is individual variation in finger length/proportions, like you say. This is one reason we'll all have different preferences.
How many seconds do you lift for?
Will this be added to the crimped app?
Great job making a training video and not mentioning anything about reps and sets
yves youtube channel link doesn't work btw!
How long do you wait between sets
When would you suggest this type of training compared to standard fingerboarding (let's say, max hangs?)
Great question. I think this is simialr to the common questions of 'max hangs vs repeaters'. If looking at your own training, the answer will depend on how you respond to the exercise and how specific it is to your goals. Then a balance should be found. For most people max hangs are a tried and test method of training, however changing up the exercises or including new ones is a great way to break plateaus or find a novel training stimulus. The method is also very accessible for those looking to start a more trageted form of finger strength training but is not confident hanging from a hangboard. Although Yves is using a lot of weight, we can use much less to slowly build up over time.
It’s quite a bit nicer once the sheer amount of weight you hang is high. It’s less risky in terms of injury for the shoulders (shoulder in a neutral position and does not have to be engaged like when finger boarding), and is easier to manage when using a lot of weight (easier to pick up a bunch of weight rather than walk around with it attached to you)
How much rest between sets?
I love how lattice repeats what yves says as if we dont understand english 😅. He is literally speaking very simple plain english so why interrupt him.. they could of just included more of what yves said instead of just repeating it like we are babies who need our hands held.
Thank you for the honest feedback. We try really hard to provide our community with high quality and free training advice to support our fellow climbers, but we are only human and clearly didn't get it right this time. Here is the uncut version if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
Yeah the video was quite annoying, I just wanted to listen to Yves.
What's with the Alex Puccio poster that's absolutely not Alex Puccio? 😆
My pr doing this is 132lbs
I have the mega bar you offer , would that work for this scenario or no?
Yes! 🙂
How many reps per week? And how many weeks i should do this program? @latticetraining
Would you say this is closer to recruitment pulls rather than isometric hangs?
It is a very short duration yielding isometric exercise, not on overcoming isometric exercise 🙌
@@LatticeTraining Ah, makes sense!
What about the rest time?
In general 2-4 mins.
Rest time between sets? 2-3 minutes?
2 to 5 minutes between sets 🙌
Hey sorry to interrupt guys, btw we sell loading pins and pinch blocks
U have a shop ?
This is still an isometric move in terms of finger strength, no? The lifting comes from the legs/core as Yves said
Yes exactly. I think the main difference comes from the force profile the fingers will experience, although still isometric. And the fact each contraction is very short means we can reach really high levels of peak force.
@@LatticeTraining It's probably safer for high loads than short reps on a hangboard - no potential for swing and much less for slipping.
Yup, still isometric yielding (I think Josh says concentric somewhere earlier), however there are far more variations which can be safely performed lifting such as these more rapid lifts and plenty of changes to tempo and time under tension and such. I have found this a little like a deadlift in the first rep is slow to engage then those after can become much faster despite completely unloading the grip.
@@zacharylaschober Nice. Not sure if I want to spring for the pin and board when I can just hangboard but will keep an eye out in future, seems like I'd prefer it to standard isometrics
@@thenayancat8802 quick suggestion is simply sling weights into a stack and consider for a period unmounting your hangboard and drilling some holes front to back of the board to accommodate 4mm perlon. Sling works on kettlebells, dumbbells, and while bigger plates are less stable I’ve been doing stacks of 35s with just a sling girth hitched on the bottom then knotted at the top of the plates. Has worked enough that I don’t even bring out the loading pin anymore.
How many days a week?
This will vary a fair bit between individuals, but for most people once to twice a week is likely appropriate. If you are unsure then it will be safest to begin with once a week 💪
@@LatticeTraining Awesome. Thanks. So not every day 💪
Lots of good info. Not a fan of the back and forth summary.
Thank you for the feedback, we've had this feedback quite a bit, so I guess we didn't quite get it right on this one! Thanks for continuing to support our channel and here is the uncut version if you are interested: th-cam.com/video/fMj8As56jAk/w-d-xo.html
@@LatticeTraining I think if it was less recap and more additional information it would rock. Always happy to support kind people striving for success.
Great, that was very interesting! I didn't know there was such a thing as "arm-lifting" haha. I'm not surprised that training for that would translate well to climbing though!
btw, did anyone else cringe just a tiny bit everytime Josh didn't drop the s in Yves? Or am I the only accent snob here :P
Glad you liked it! And I (Josh) also am cringing because I thought this might be the case 😵
@@LatticeTraining lol I mean, why does french have to use so many silent letters anyway right🙈
@@nurfuerdieplaylist It's all about being part of the "in" crowd ;)
the commentary though😆 well-intentioned, i know, but damn.....
Good video, but did not change my training at least temporarily, let alone forever.
I never trained on a hangboard, but I recently bought a lifting pin to train my fingers while resting my shoulders and used the max hang protocol that was explained in your video th-cam.com/video/yUIRzwyQx_E/w-d-xo.html (which means I started with 6x10s 80% maximum weight).
I dont have any specific goals, just want to get better at climbing and start being able to hang on my fingers, so I'm unsure if this version of short bursts of loading, or the longer time under tension you explained in your hangboard for beginners guide is better.
It would be nice to know the pros and applications of both training protocols (or maybe it doesnt matter?)
Thanks for the video, was great :D
We've had similar questions about how and when to programme both styles of training so we're planning to create a video to cover this topic ☺️
@@LatticeTraining great, thank you! :D
Good to know ! From what I understand, the idea is that lifting multiples times with little time under tension is more specific to climbing than isometric holds. In my mind we could compare protocol to a contact strenght exercice like catching a rung (two arms or one arm) multiple times.
I think it Would be interesting to compare Yves's méthode to classic isometric max hangs AND rung catches.
Looking forward to some databased comparaison soon !
I'm going to try out his method with the lattice lifting edge.
Yeah, 100 kg is not something everyone can do… Or put differently, I don’t think I’ve ever met a single person who can. xD