At least since we did a similar test. LOL. DSPORT Here's what we found www.dsportmag.com/the-tech/rb26dett-building-blocks-which-rb26dett-block-is-right-for-you/
@@hermanurriola138 just a thought. Would you be able to do a test on what kind of hardness other metals and materials test at. I feel like alot of people do not understand that a "270" on your hardness scale doesnt mean it's as hard as diamonds and wont be cracking like glass (I'm exaggerating but you get the point). As a result alot of keyboard warriors (of which I'm sure you've already seen) may start to understand the scope of the information they've read on the internet. Once again. Thanks for sharing. I dont think most people realise just how much time and effort you've put Into testing
Not exactly. It's more about the material make-up for the N1 which they didn't cover in depth. Heat resistance, heat soak, and heat distribution are different for N1 in some ways. But they didn't cover real-world applications.
No it didn’t. Unless those people are very gullible. N1s have been proven for years on race and streets, and those are facts. Agree with Best Lee Sin NA, they did missed some crucial points here.
Na, metallurgy, manufacturing quality control and the matching rotating assembly means the arbee’s sporting these things from factory can handle some pretty impressive power levels and the sort of power delivery you want for (narrator says exactly what im about to type lol) sport street/circut racing. And can handle the physical demands of the repeated high stress life that a race car engine is subjected too, and needs to be able to tolerate over a decent amount of time. A harder/brittle block just wont compare over the span of a championship season. Unless its too over engineered- carrying too much unnecessary mass around with you. The block is just a link in the chain. If you get the formula wrong cause your 1000hp+ build requires components much heavier and with much higher losses, then yea, ya prob wasting monies better spent elsewhere. Horses for courses
Unless you are a credentialed Engineering or you have real experience testing and building competition engines, you should reserve tyour OPINIONS. Herman did a very solid test. Higher hardness means higher compression strength! No way to argue that! His testing shows which block will have the highest compressive strength in the cylinders. That was the intent of his testing. As correctly noted by a slew of Nismo fan boys and self-proclaimed engineers, high hardness also comes with a tradeoff in toughness and tensile strength. Parts of the block under tension MAYBE more subject to failure IF the stress and strain in tension exceeds the mechanical properties of the materials. Why do more 05U blocks crack than N1 blocks? If they are higher in hardness there are more brittle and subject to impact. However, unless you drop a valve in the cylinder or a piece of porcelain off your spark plug, impact resistance is never the issue. Nine times out of ten, engine failure occurs because of bad tuning, low-quality machine work and using crappy parts. Why would an OEM not make the best parts possible? One word: BUDGET! The aftermarket can afford to have a much higher cost per unit than the OEMs. I've built more high-power RB engines in the States than anyone. I'm also a credentialed Mechanical Engineer. www.dsportmag.com/the-cars/the-worlds-most-streetable-8-second-nissan-r33-gt-r-project-rh8/
well said, and yes 05U's break more often than N1's because there are 1000 times more of them out there, we have broken plenty of N1's, that's actually why we set out to work out what makes a block better... Thanks Dsport
@@hermanurriola138 No need to thank us. you did a great test. Haven't used one of those portable hardness testers, but now I'm thinking of getting one. We have the Rockwell tested but it's great having some non-destructive testing devices. We use a special portable hardness tester (for aluminum) on all of the cylinder heads that we do to identify potentially soft heads. We've saved customers thousands of dollars by not having them invest in a soft cylinder head. If you get a chance, try making it out to IDRC's The Shootout presented by Buschur Racing in August of 2019. We'll have a few of our builds there. Hopefully, one of them will be my R33 GT-R. Something is not happy over 1,500 flywheel horsepower right now. Not sure if blocks are twisting, cranks are bending or we are beyond wet-sump oiling capabilities. Looking forward to see your next video on demonstrating block twist.
It's funny some of the issues you come across when building big hp motors out of 20+yr old blocks and cylinder heads with unknown histories. I've used a head on my RB30 that had gone soft and it caused the head to lift under boost as the head stud washer recessed into the head over time. A very unusual problem to come across, was a result of welding the crack that forms under the cam tunnel when an air pocket in the cooling system had caused localised hot spots. Some people do better jobs than others when it comes to repairing cracked heads... 😰
Buy a Platinum brace instead. That is what this video is really all about. Did you not see subtle reminders through out the video? Was done in a clever way.
man, this is a heartbreaker.. i was thinking i had something special with my '23U' but Herman's tests prove it to be no better than a garden variety '05U' and neither one of these are any less than an N1.. they're all the same after all. wow!
Man you guys have the best videos on RB’s and GTR’s hands down. I really appreciate all the content also this video helped a lot thanks for all the knowledge! Hope u do a video on 26 vs 25 heads
ONLY if its an ET block. The E block is weak, but you can fix that of course. But the turbo rods are way stronger. Quite a rare engine now. The gearbox was really strong too.
Great video Andrew and thanks Herman for taking the time to do it. I would have really liked to know how the rb20det faired against the rest. Thanks again.
🤔 I used to think the rb26 would be best to build but now I would actually build a rb25 an just pick up a spare long block when the 800 horsepurs escape all over the engine bay 😂
E85 is not the determining factor for oil squirters fuel doesn't cool your wrist pin or bores GM tested this heavily for the c6 Zr1 the temperatures are pretty high there if you do nothing about it service life is significantly different.
Herman, thank you so much for taking the time to do all these testings and sharing it with us. Your video definitely helps clarify a ton of misinformation and rumors that for decades have been floating around, but there's nothing better than to prove with empirical data the real science behind it all. One question that I've always had, is have you ever compared the RB25DE, vs RB25DET RWD vs RB25DET AWD blocks head to head? Maybe the RB25DE & RB25DET RWD blocks are identical, however I've always wondered if the RB25DET AWD is beefier compared to the RWD.
Cutting the block can tell you thickness for a 24U block but what you're also missing is sending a sample of the block to a metallurgical lab to give you mechanical data on it.
have done, we know what materials are used, and under metallurgist advice ... just check hardness, nothing else matters, but we will post more results, also destructive testing is interesting :)
Herman Urriola hardness at room temp is useless at a dynamic stand point and the reason the N1 block isn’t as hard is because cast iron falls prey to work hardnening which is what cracks things.
There hasnt been many bmw blocks pushed to the weaknesses of the block yet. I heard from a shop that late model bmws are beings pushed farther and are reliable blocks so far. The Lamborghini blocks hold 2500 or so. They just started using billet blocks in the half mile stuff. I saw a bmw promod, bmw engine high sixes low seven's on 1320video
Would you consider showing the same test for multiple varieties of Japanese motors? I would like to see the VG And VQ motors tested, the 4g motors and maybe compare them against the Honda motors. EJ motors would be a great video too. This video put a bunch of keyboard warriors in their places. Great job guys. I love it.
Excellent testing but it is worth noting the hardness might change over time and heat cycling. it wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest the newer N1 blocks might be softer as a result of the virgin steel and lack of heat cycling, further more the thermal properties of the steel have yet to be tested there may well be a significant change in hardness malleability and tensile strength under various conditions.
Love these guys. But there are some points missed here and not explained much about the already tried and tested N1 blocks. One example is its metallurgy. I saw a detailed comparo years ago on a JDM magazine, it covered its metal contents, on different temps. also. If I could just only find it again.
Great vid publicly showing what a few of us have been doing, only criticism is the proper thrust face that you really need to worry about is not on the hot side, but on the inlet side, thats where the power stroke force is, never the less nice to show the comparisons between the block designs which i never have known.
Haha Peter, you picked it, realised that after testing as the blocks were all arse about from how I usually test them, we didn't realise till after but it was too late
@@hermanurriola138 Thought so, was probably the pressure of having the camera on you and trying to get it right at the same time, somethings always going to go wrong no matter how hard you try. :) Still , walked away from it learning a fair bit, i never knew the finer differences, great work mate.
Its is some of the best information i have ever seen on the RB's. Data is key to development not the verbal diarrhea that comes out of peoples mouths. Cheers Andrew
Mad respect for this man. ( coming from a welder who does ndi tests on welds with powder, xray, and magnets) however i was kinda confused about the test of the rd 28 block considering the results you got on hardness. I agree that the resizing the bore on the RD probably isnt the best idea but everyone is free to do what they want. Cheers mate hope to see more videos from you
I think it is more about the offset of the notes if you were to review to 3.0litre pistons. Due to being weaker block material, the thinner wall would suffer compaired to the 3.0L with it's stronger block material
what would be interesting would be to manufacture a billet rb20 block to solve the breakage problem and take the rb20det engines to 1000-1200 horsepower, being the engine block reliable and strong,burn less fuel and at the same time make it a powerful engine, optimal for driving on public roads.
I am interested in replacing the Rb25det in my GTS with a Rb26dett, de-stroked to 2.5L, keeping the 26 head and possibly the low mount twin turbo setup. The aim is to build a good time trial / targa car so pwr only needs to be around 280kw - 320kw with the emphasis instead on mid range throttle response and spool time (can already hear ppl saying “well keep the 26 displacement”) Can’t find any info on destroking a 26 to 25
Interesting initial overview. The rebound test should be conducted on a horizontal surface if possible as the rebound is affected by gravity. A vickers or brinell hardness test would be preferable. To draw any conclusions about the metallurgy before sending samples to the lab would be premature. Castings more than anything are subject to large and inconsistent metal grain size and distribution and depending on heat treatment process will often present with different hardness out of the same batch. Harness can also vary in different areas of any one item due to any irregularities and variation in the heat treatment and cooling process. Defects such as cold shuts, laps and micro cracking are also very common and internal flaws are not located unless radiographed or flaw tested with ultrasonics at low frequencies to penetrate through the coarser grain structure of the casting.
teamneverlost Herman normally does then standing up but we wanted to be able to film it well on the bench. Doing them all horizontal make the results perfectly comparable. Horizontal vs vertical is under 5 points.
Best course of action on some of those seem like they'd be better candidates for sleeving than even using them as is. Wonder how the RB20 stacks up compared to all the 25 up to 30 ones
Compression strength increases with hardness. It will make for stronger cylinders. However increased hardness reduces tensile strength and toughness as noted. It all depends on where in the block you need the compressive or tensile stregth and toughness.
thats not entirely true.. metallurgy matters... if its strictly iron, per se, then yes. look into knife steels and you will see what i mean. adding different elements can help combat brittleness
@@Cheeseypoofs85 I know a bit about knife steels, different types are harder but you still get to a point where the edge becomes brittle but on a higher hardness level. But an engine environment is way more complex over a simple knife blade.
Alright so we see that they have casting irregularities, would darton sleeving them be able to fix some of that and make the engine “stronger” in the sense that it has better material for the cylinder walls and now has better thickness so as to help avoid the cracks in the cylinder walls? Also the BRAND NEW rb26 blocks, how do those compre va the older blocks? I would imagine same issues but maybe more brittle as they might use different blend compared to the originals?
One thing that wasn’t considered thoroughly enough, in my opinion is the differences in the blocks harmonics. Im guessing the N1 and unicorn blocks have substantially different harmonic properties. Probably to allow the engine to maintain revs at a much closer parameter (to the harmonic properties of the Rb block design’s, natural resonant frequency.) to the blocks inherent and destructive rpm range / resonant frequency. I’m guessing standard rb25/26 have a rev range around 9500 where the destructive harmonics lay and the upgraded blocks move this range either, up towards the high 10,000 a low 11,000 rpm range, or lower towards the 7000rpm range where the engine can be managed to pass through this rpm range as quickly as possible.
@Herman Urriola Making a guess, N1 block may have been blueprinted from a normal block, good for circuit racing where big big power is not the ultimate goal. How they been compared against other blocks for total geometric state of the block?
Thanks so much for the video. Never thought of using Sonic testers to test cylinder thickness. By any chance have you tested the 1uz block at all. It's rumored to have not enough meat to over bore much. Wondering how true this is.
This vid is excellent, the other confusion I hear with RB's is with the different heads, is there a comparison vid in this style of testing for each head option, also technical reasoning for different head/block combos, like putting a RB26 head on a RB30 & so on
Oh awesome, good to know, hope to see that vid & many like it, no doubt many would like to see other engines tested with suck scrutiny eg barra's & LS's, and even 4bangers etc
why don't you have tested the rb20det! i know the head suck! but i'm sure the block is killin'em all so much material between each cylinder. and every rb crank fit any rb block but the con rods are different
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Nothing hurts more than being soft and not enough thickness. Story of my life...
simp
Hope one day you can get that choad you've always wanted.
jon doe except another 2jz!
@@nobodyhere4860 ford barra will eat the 2jz
@@j.e.d.8065 your absolutely right, but nothing better than a Ford doesn't quite have the same ring to it!
Best informational video to come out on rb's since ever
Thank you! we are trying to make a difference, appreciate the comment :)
I wouldn't take it as gospel
At least since we did a similar test. LOL. DSPORT Here's what we found www.dsportmag.com/the-tech/rb26dett-building-blocks-which-rb26dett-block-is-right-for-you/
@@dsport subed
@@hermanurriola138 just a thought. Would you be able to do a test on what kind of hardness other metals and materials test at. I feel like alot of people do not understand that a "270" on your hardness scale doesnt mean it's as hard as diamonds and wont be cracking like glass (I'm exaggerating but you get the point).
As a result alot of keyboard warriors (of which I'm sure you've already seen) may start to understand the scope of the information they've read on the internet. Once again. Thanks for sharing. I dont think most people realise just how much time and effort you've put Into testing
Thank you Herman for taking the initiative to do something like this! Platinum is at the cutting edge of RB development
Thanks man :)
Thats cool. Over priced N1 block is the same as a RB25 block. Must piss people off.
Not exactly. It's more about the material make-up for the N1 which they didn't cover in depth. Heat resistance, heat soak, and heat distribution are different for N1 in some ways. But they didn't cover real-world applications.
No it didn’t. Unless those people are very gullible. N1s have been proven for years on race and streets, and those are facts. Agree with Best Lee Sin NA, they did missed some crucial points here.
The N1 is supposed to be the oil leak improvement together with newer material. Dunno about the details though...
Na, metallurgy, manufacturing quality control and the matching rotating assembly means the arbee’s sporting these things from factory can handle some pretty impressive power levels and the sort of power delivery you want for (narrator says exactly what im about to type lol) sport street/circut racing. And can handle the physical demands of the repeated high stress life that a race car engine is subjected too, and needs to be able to tolerate over a decent amount of time. A harder/brittle block just wont compare over the span of a championship season. Unless its too over engineered- carrying too much unnecessary mass around with you.
The block is just a link in the chain. If you get the formula wrong cause your 1000hp+ build requires components much heavier and with much higher losses, then yea, ya prob wasting monies better spent elsewhere. Horses for courses
Did you even watch the video or know anything about either of those cars?!?
Unless you are a credentialed Engineering or you have real experience testing and building competition engines, you should reserve tyour OPINIONS. Herman did a very solid test. Higher hardness means higher compression strength! No way to argue that! His testing shows which block will have the highest compressive strength in the cylinders. That was the intent of his testing. As correctly noted by a slew of Nismo fan boys and self-proclaimed engineers, high hardness also comes with a tradeoff in toughness and tensile strength. Parts of the block under tension MAYBE more subject to failure IF the stress and strain in tension exceeds the mechanical properties of the materials. Why do more 05U blocks crack than N1 blocks? If they are higher in hardness there are more brittle and subject to impact. However, unless you drop a valve in the cylinder or a piece of porcelain off your spark plug, impact resistance is never the issue. Nine times out of ten, engine failure occurs because of bad tuning, low-quality machine work and using crappy parts. Why would an OEM not make the best parts possible? One word: BUDGET! The aftermarket can afford to have a much higher cost per unit than the OEMs. I've built more high-power RB engines in the States than anyone. I'm also a credentialed Mechanical Engineer. www.dsportmag.com/the-cars/the-worlds-most-streetable-8-second-nissan-r33-gt-r-project-rh8/
well said, and yes 05U's break more often than N1's because there are 1000 times more of them out there, we have broken plenty of N1's, that's actually why we set out to work out what makes a block better...
Thanks Dsport
@@hermanurriola138 No need to thank us. you did a great test. Haven't used one of those portable hardness testers, but now I'm thinking of getting one. We have the Rockwell tested but it's great having some non-destructive testing devices. We use a special portable hardness tester (for aluminum) on all of the cylinder heads that we do to identify potentially soft heads. We've saved customers thousands of dollars by not having them invest in a soft cylinder head. If you get a chance, try making it out to IDRC's The Shootout presented by Buschur Racing in August of 2019. We'll have a few of our builds there. Hopefully, one of them will be my R33 GT-R. Something is not happy over 1,500 flywheel horsepower right now. Not sure if blocks are twisting, cranks are bending or we are beyond wet-sump oiling capabilities. Looking forward to see your next video on demonstrating block twist.
Indeed, a simple device to show you a difference that does not take a long time to do = good for the camera.
I like how you think someone needs to be an engineering grad to be able to speak you're an elitist pleb that probably isn't one.
It's funny some of the issues you come across when building big hp motors out of 20+yr old blocks and cylinder heads with unknown histories. I've used a head on my RB30 that had gone soft and it caused the head to lift under boost as the head stud washer recessed into the head over time. A very unusual problem to come across, was a result of welding the crack that forms under the cam tunnel when an air pocket in the cooling system had caused localised hot spots. Some people do better jobs than others when it comes to repairing cracked heads... 😰
This man has broken so many hearts.
Thanks for clearing the myths in the internet cause forums are a joke. 👌
Kenny_Fa5 exactly brother
Amen
Great video guys 👍
Rb30/25 💪
Clutch Kick Junkies Ayyyyy CKJ gang
That 66.6 kilo block though....
The Devil's Heart.
Lol i was thinking the same thing.
Cool video! Wish they tested the RB20. Wonder if it shares the same casting as the other engines. The 78mm bore would be the one with thicker walls
Hi. Can you help me? I need information about pistons rb20det.
@@РодригоЛеон ya what u need?
This channel is the holy grail for English speaking rb nerds. You guys are doing God’s work
I'm guessing there are going to be quite alot of n1 blocks for sale real soon :D
Thanks for taking the time and effort for making this vid MotiveDVD!
Especially at 7K
OnkelSvenne yep, I’ve got one for sale...7,001 firm.
Buy a Platinum brace instead. That is what this video is really all about. Did you not see subtle reminders through out the video? Was done in a clever way.
Another conspiracy theorist
not really. this video won't get popularized like that.
man, this is a heartbreaker.. i was thinking i had something special with my '23U' but Herman's tests prove it to be no better than a garden variety '05U' and neither one of these are any less than an N1.. they're all the same after all. wow!
Man you guys have the best videos on RB’s and GTR’s hands down. I really appreciate all the content also this video helped a lot thanks for all the knowledge! Hope u do a video on 26 vs 25 heads
Awesome video guys👍 Nothing beats facts and scientific testing. You are unquestionable the best resource for Skyline and RB content on TH-cam😀
This was just flawless. I appreciate when guys put in work like this for the culture
before watching im going to assume its rb30 and or rd28
Can u please inform me on what an rd28 is, where it comes from, and it's specs??? Would really appreciate it. :)
30 is just a better 26
2jz mflc its a diesel 2.8liter came in patrols, the GU. Is basically the identical twin to the rb30e. From what I understand anyway
@@2jzmflc188 they came in patrols and laurels
The sonic testing part was BADASS! Definitely haven't seen many of these tests done and posted on TH-cam.
nice vid, wish they included rb20 testing
Rb20 will max out on power long before the block becomes an issue
@@zyoungson215 yea wanted to see how they comp data wise over 25/26/30/28 thickness etc..
Also interested as RB20s are older just like the 30 so maybe it has the same hardness and smaller bores may mean more material
stay tuned. its coming
@@MotiveVideo great!
Ahh B 30 block with an ahh b 26 head
ONLY if its an ET block. The E block is weak, but you can fix that of course. But the turbo rods are way stronger. Quite a rare engine now. The gearbox was really strong too.
26/30 combo 👌🏻
thankyou , there is nothing i appreciate more then 100% real data. keep up the good work gentlemen.
Great video Andrew and thanks Herman for taking the time to do it.
I would have really liked to know how the rb20det faired against the rest.
Thanks again.
🤔 I used to think the rb26 would be best to build but now I would actually build a rb25 an just pick up a spare long block when the 800 horsepurs escape all over the engine bay 😂
Mo power baby 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Would be nice if you guys cn do the same video for 4g63 engines
Then the answer would be the vr4 4g63.
Herman I really do appreciate all your hard efforts in going above & beyond for all this information.
E85 is not the determining factor for oil squirters fuel doesn't cool your wrist pin or bores GM tested this heavily for the c6 Zr1 the temperatures are pretty high there if you do nothing about it service life is significantly different.
Herman, thank you so much for taking the time to do all these testings and sharing it with us. Your video definitely helps clarify a ton of misinformation and rumors that for decades have been floating around, but there's nothing better than to prove with empirical data the real science behind it all.
One question that I've always had, is have you ever compared the RB25DE, vs RB25DET RWD vs RB25DET AWD blocks head to head? Maybe the RB25DE & RB25DET RWD blocks are identical, however I've always wondered if the RB25DET AWD is beefier compared to the RWD.
Id be curious to see a test that compares bmw inline 6s.
same id love to see an n54 for comparison.
Cutting the block can tell you thickness for a 24U block but what you're also missing is sending a sample of the block to a metallurgical lab to give you mechanical data on it.
have done, we know what materials are used, and under metallurgist advice ... just check hardness, nothing else matters, but we will post more results, also destructive testing is interesting :)
Herman Urriola hardness at room temp is useless at a dynamic stand point and the reason the N1 block isn’t as hard is because cast iron falls prey to work hardnening which is what cracks things.
@@hermanurriola138 Herman have you ever or will you ever consider any 1JZ and 2JZ testing and comparisons?
Incredible info, testing parameters, and results.
now after all that, bring on the 2jz block and tell us why it's supposed to be better.
done man, vid will be out soon, we tested them the same day
@@hermanurriola138 fuck yeah mayne
@@hermanurriola138 Do German blocks test better? Like Mercedes or BMW blocks. Never heard about a block failure in them.
There hasnt been many bmw blocks pushed to the weaknesses of the block yet. I heard from a shop that late model bmws are beings pushed farther and are reliable blocks so far. The Lamborghini blocks hold 2500 or so. They just started using billet blocks in the half mile stuff. I saw a bmw promod, bmw engine high sixes low seven's on 1320video
taz 4100 they don’t hold 2500 there are already billet blocks for the Audi v10 in them.
Would be awesome to see a billet block thrown in the mix just too see another comparison!
Would you consider showing the same test for multiple varieties of Japanese motors? I would like to see the VG And VQ motors tested, the 4g motors and maybe compare them against the Honda motors. EJ motors would be a great video too. This video put a bunch of keyboard warriors in their places. Great job guys. I love it.
Great video explaining great facts and testing methodology. I've never knew that could be a way to test engine blocks... rb30 ftw
Awesome information especially for us in the US. Who are just getting real deal access to these blocks nowadays
Excellent testing but it is worth noting the hardness might change over time and heat cycling. it wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest the newer N1 blocks might be softer as a result of the virgin steel and lack of heat cycling, further more the thermal properties of the steel have yet to be tested there may well be a significant change in hardness malleability and tensile strength under various conditions.
I love GTRs and one day I will get one. I learned so much in this video than I have ever since i heard about a GTR. Great job guys awesome video.
SR20DET comparison like this including RNN14 54C Version would be great...
Love these guys. But there are some points missed here and not explained much about the already tried and tested N1 blocks. One example is its metallurgy. I saw a detailed comparo years ago on a JDM magazine, it covered its metal contents, on different temps. also. If I could just only find it again.
Great vid publicly showing what a few of us have been doing, only criticism is the proper thrust face that you really need to worry about is not on the hot side, but on the inlet side, thats where the power stroke force is, never the less nice to show the comparisons between the block designs which i never have known.
Haha Peter, you picked it, realised that after testing as the blocks were all arse about from how I usually test them, we didn't realise till after but it was too late
@@hermanurriola138 Thought so, was probably the pressure of having the camera on you and trying to get it right at the same time, somethings always going to go wrong no matter how hard you try. :) Still , walked away from it learning a fair bit, i never knew the finer differences, great work mate.
@@pt6868 yes i am a little camera shy, and this took around 12 hours or something so we were not going to do it again :) thanks my friend
Funny how most did not pick it up but discuss other little things.
Its is some of the best information i have ever seen on the RB's. Data is key to development not the verbal diarrhea that comes out of peoples mouths. Cheers Andrew
Mad respect for this man. ( coming from a welder who does ndi tests on welds with powder, xray, and magnets) however i was kinda confused about the test of the rd 28 block considering the results you got on hardness. I agree that the resizing the bore on the RD probably isnt the best idea but everyone is free to do what they want. Cheers mate hope to see more videos from you
I think it is more about the offset of the notes if you were to review to 3.0litre pistons.
Due to being weaker block material, the thinner wall would suffer compaired to the 3.0L with it's stronger block material
Thank you for all that work and sharing.
This needs at least a million views
RB20 Block is king baby.
I watched 15 minutes of this and he mentions nothing about a rb20det 😂
@@jeremyhare9515 Here you go ya bum. th-cam.com/video/3CfFDK-Eijw/w-d-xo.html
Great info. Am a fanboy of any iron block straight 6. A good balanced and strong by nature motor.
What an awesome video, I love all RBs 👍🏻 thanks Herman and Andrew for a killer vid with bulk facts 🍻
Thanks buddy, and welcome
would love if these tests include the rb20 as well. RB20E, RB20ET, RB20DE and RB20DET
Hi. Can you help me? I need information about pistons rb20det
@user-zi9zv9kx3s I would love to help you but it seems my replies to you keeps getting deleted. I'm sorry friend.
@@РодригоЛеон rb20det motor enthusiasts
@@РодригоЛеон what info do you need?
@@РодригоЛеон tell me what you need
Now THIS is a great comparison video. Proper detail!
Thank you guys! Was looking for solid info for sooo long!
I appreciate your search & time you guys put in, great job, how about a quick comparison with 2jz?
Being edited right now
Love the nerdy stuff here. But now I need $1300 for that PR8 Sonic tester
what would be interesting would be to manufacture a billet rb20 block to solve the breakage problem and take the rb20det engines to 1000-1200 horsepower, being the engine block reliable and strong,burn less fuel and at the same time make it a powerful engine, optimal for driving on public roads.
RB25det by a mile.
nope
Yep
@@travisauhouseclark6097 did you watch the video? lol
Lol no torque
@@matthewallison7604 No torque? Tell that all the LS1's these obliterated in the day.
rd 28 is a diesel engine block so will be stronger
Thankyou heaps for this video Andrew and Herman, got an rb25 block here I’m gonna throw a 26 head on
Great content... killing it as usual, thanks guys!
I would love to see the same test's done to a BILLET block. If it's really worth the "extra" buck!
Can you please do this on the ej blocks? Pretty please!!!
Great idea - wonder if Herman has a forty foot pole....
No point. Its an ej. Gonna blow up regardless
Just stick to a ej20. Closed deck. Ej25s were open deck hence why they couldn’t handle power as much as the ej20
Thank you very much for this video
I am interested in replacing the Rb25det in my GTS with a Rb26dett, de-stroked to 2.5L, keeping the 26 head and possibly the low mount twin turbo setup. The aim is to build a good time trial / targa car so pwr only needs to be around 280kw - 320kw with the emphasis instead on mid range throttle response and spool time (can already hear ppl saying “well keep the 26 displacement”)
Can’t find any info on destroking a 26 to 25
More videos like this! Fucking awesome! Very informative and detailed video
you broke my heart when didnt show any data on the rb20
And this is why I'm going 1jz lol noone cares for a 20
@@jeremyhare9515 Wrong! The 20 is popular and it's popularity is only going up.
Awesome video!! Would love to have all of Herman’s knowledge!
nice comment thank you, i dont know it all, im still learning, but the information is out there, just got to keep learning it :)
I'd love to see this type of video about the SR20.
Hey, great vid again. But when Herman is talking from about 6-7 mins in, the music makes it a bit hard to hear him.
Music levels are a constant problem on motive vids
I could hear him just fine, but i see no reason to have background music in a tech video.
When you said "RB" I was thinking BB Mopars!
Very interesting thanks for posting.
Really informative video. I learned heaps. I hope to see more!
20e by miles
Bloody hell i love this so much i have learnt so much
JP Vlogs do not believe everything they tell you. They want to sell products Motive are getting paid for it.
Isn't it good that an after market sbc block can be bored 5mm more than stock and still have more than 5mm left!!! So good!!
Interesting initial overview. The rebound test should be conducted on a horizontal surface if possible as the rebound is affected by gravity. A vickers or brinell hardness test would be preferable. To draw any conclusions about the metallurgy before sending samples to the lab would be premature. Castings more than anything are subject to large and inconsistent metal grain size and distribution and depending on heat treatment process will often present with different hardness out of the same batch. Harness can also vary in different areas of any one item due to any irregularities and variation in the heat treatment and cooling process. Defects such as cold shuts, laps and micro cracking are also very common and internal flaws are not located unless radiographed or flaw tested with ultrasonics at low frequencies to penetrate through the coarser grain structure of the casting.
teamneverlost Herman normally does then standing up but we wanted to be able to film it well on the bench. Doing them all horizontal make the results perfectly comparable. Horizontal vs vertical is under 5 points.
Best course of action on some of those seem like they'd be better candidates for sleeving than even using them as is.
Wonder how the RB20 stacks up compared to all the 25 up to 30 ones
Fantastic video thank you so much for the information greatly appreciated
And the deck on an after market sbc is always around 12mm to 13mm or 1/2 inch... so good!!
Very educational, good work!
This man is the block central😂 literally every engine has to go through him no power is being made without him he’s the genius epicenter 😂
very informative video, thanks for sharing.
Was keen to see how the rb20 would compare against the big boys but again no information on the rb20 :(
The harder something gets the more brittle it becomes. I wonder if there is a crossover sweet point?
Yeah a softer N1 block (something pointed out as negative in this video)
yeh this video seems to avoid toughness and tensile strength.
Compression strength increases with hardness. It will make for stronger cylinders. However increased hardness reduces tensile strength and toughness as noted. It all depends on where in the block you need the compressive or tensile stregth and toughness.
thats not entirely true.. metallurgy matters... if its strictly iron, per se, then yes. look into knife steels and you will see what i mean. adding different elements can help combat brittleness
@@Cheeseypoofs85 I know a bit about knife steels, different types are harder but you still get to a point where the edge becomes brittle but on a higher hardness level. But an engine environment is way more complex over a simple knife blade.
Actual facts! This is perfect! Keep it up mate!
Alright so we see that they have casting irregularities, would darton sleeving them be able to fix some of that and make the engine “stronger” in the sense that it has better material for the cylinder walls and now has better thickness so as to help avoid the cracks in the cylinder walls? Also the BRAND NEW rb26 blocks, how do those compre va the older blocks? I would imagine same issues but maybe more brittle as they might use different blend compared to the originals?
Incredible content guys!
One thing that wasn’t considered thoroughly enough, in my opinion is the differences in the blocks harmonics. Im guessing the N1 and unicorn blocks have substantially different harmonic properties. Probably to allow the engine to maintain revs at a much closer parameter (to the harmonic properties of the Rb block design’s, natural resonant frequency.) to the blocks inherent and destructive rpm range / resonant frequency.
I’m guessing standard rb25/26 have a rev range around 9500 where the destructive harmonics lay and the upgraded blocks move this range either, up towards the high 10,000 a low 11,000 rpm range, or lower towards the 7000rpm range where the engine can be managed to pass through this rpm range as quickly as possible.
Please do M50 vs RB26 showdown :)
Fantastic tech vid. Great work! What sort of money can we expect to pay for a block report like this?
@Herman Urriola Making a guess, N1 block may have been blueprinted from a normal block, good for circuit racing where big big power is not the ultimate goal. How they been compared against other blocks for total geometric state of the block?
Thanks so much for the video. Never thought of using Sonic testers to test cylinder thickness.
By any chance have you tested the 1uz block at all. It's rumored to have not enough meat to over bore much. Wondering how true this is.
Enjoyed the presentation, thanks.
This vid is excellent, the other confusion I hear with RB's is with the different heads, is there a comparison vid in this style of testing for each head option, also technical reasoning for different head/block combos, like putting a RB26 head on a RB30 & so on
Jub Threesixnine RB26 Head is best but we may look at that video option if we can get what we need to do it
Oh awesome,
good to know,
hope to see that vid & many like it, no doubt many would like to see other engines tested with suck scrutiny eg barra's & LS's, and even 4bangers etc
why don't you have tested the rb20det! i know the head suck! but i'm sure the block is killin'em all so much material between each cylinder. and every rb crank fit any rb block but the con rods are different
Didn't they say all the bores are 86mm except for the rd? The change in capacity comes from the deck height
@@cheeseyl67 that and custom pistons.
rb20det pistons have a 78mm bore
Lol almost everything you just said is wrong, cranks are not interchangeable. And you should learn how to speak English.
@@rickphillips7221 Who made you the king of England? rude
Good work Andrew! Think we could get some SR20 love? Rocker arms facts and myths hint hint
darcy it’s coming
What an interesting vid. Well done Andrew
Outstanding video sir! Really enjoyed learning valuable information, with a good morning coffee :)
Rb30 is the go, they are dirt cheap & easy to find
So is your mom
So what exactly is the point of your reply??@@PrimoRocker
where can one source an rb30?
@@supernice_auto Holden VL 1989 , Nissan Skyline 1988-1990
Can you do a head comparison too?
great video, please, make video about RB motors head head difference. from Russia with love)