Founding Mormonism for Power and Sex (Joseph Smith: Part Two)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- This episode covers Joseph Smith’s life from about 1829 through 1833. Each page I turn, I have some new realization about how little I know about this man. Don’t forget to subscribe to receive the next installment of this series on the life of Joseph Smith!
Many links below are Wikipedia links. Please keep in mind Wikipedia is a website that summarizes information and links to primary sources. I suggest clicking through to as many primary sources as possible after reading a cursory summary of these topics.
*Why I left the Mormon Church: (www.mormontrut...)
*Part One of this series on Joseph Smith: ( • Mormon Founder's Fabri... )
*Rough Stone Rolling by Richard Bushman, the biography written with a faithful interpretation of events: (www.amazon.com...)
*No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie,the biography written with a skeptical interpretation of events: (shorturl.at/mnsyU)
*In Sacred Loneliness by Todd Compton: (www.amazon.com...)
*Mormon movie about the life of Joseph Smith: ( • Joseph Smith: The Prop... )
*Wiki on some of the people to join Mormon church: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Joseph Smith’s criminal record: (en.wikipedia.o...)
*Church membership over time:
(en.wikipedia.o...)
*Early church maps:
(www.josephsmit...)
Video about connections between the temple and masonry produced by the Mormon church:
( / @churchofjesuschrist )
Mormons confuse scrutiny for persecution:
(onlysky.media/...)
Plural marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo:
(www.churchofje...)
List of Joseph Smith’s wives:
(www.wivesofjose...)
*CES Letter, a common tool used to deconstruct Mormonism: (cesletter.org/...)
*My book, How to Leave the Mormon Church: An Exmormon's Guide for Rebuilding After Religion (www.amazon.com...)
*My Mormon wedding explained video ( • Mormon Temple Weddings... )
*My Mormon endowment explained video ( • Secret Mormon Temple C... )
*My Mormon garments explained video ( • Mormon Garments Explained )
*My Mormon faith crisis ( • Why I Left the Mormon ... )
where to find me -
Patreon (ad free & bonus content): shorturl.at/8bpnw
TikTok: / alyssadgrenfell
Instagram: / alyssadgrenfell
Blog: www.mormontrut...
Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com
support my channel -
Venmo: venmo.com/u/Al...
When did learning about the mormon church become my guilty pleasure? No clue, but Im happy to be here 😃
Come to church, you can learn even more than just the cynicism
@@KaiserSoze-us9ji I grew up Mormon, and people learn truth here, and fairy tale white washings at church.
I am old enough to remember doctrinal changes.
Let's just say the church changes stuff quite conveniently
Right , I know ! This is eye opening for sure. There is a lot to unpack wow
Yeah, I'm a nevermo atheist and been stuck here for weeks. The Energy and passion Alyssa and others takes me back to when I left religion. There are lots of layers too. Start watching some of the vids on the current day polygamy cults that branched off after the LDS church banned the practice. This rabbit hole has no bottom.
@@KaiserSoze-us9jiI've been there. Studied with some Missionaries, did some Monday Night family things, etc... and it is an excellent example of deceit and indoctrination. I laughed out loud when I saw the pictures of the so called _Book of Abraham_ paparaii because I recognized them as funeral scrolls. The "gods" at the bottom are clearly Canoptic Jars for the organs. The "angel" is the Spirit (Ka), and they stuck a human head on Anubis. Hilarious.
Not even talking about religion, this series teaches me so much about American history! It's so interesting to see how all these competing groups lived in the same area, and how everyone had their own agenda.
Joseph Smith was a straight gangsta. The guts and charisma he must of had to pull off all this BS is off the charts. And the fact millions of people still follow his made up story is a testament to that
The only American I can think of to rival is L Ron Hubbard, amazing bullshitter.
I felt the same thing about doing a deep dive on the survivors of the Titanic. There were so many survivors in the first class that were on that ship with their mistresses and/or up to something. 🫤
I’m a history teacher and someone who’s a trained historian. You did excellent historiographical work on this video.
Except she misrepresented what actually happened...
Woke Teacher 🗑️ .... The facts here are beyond skewed.
The truth is those that leave the church, cannot leave the church alone.
Confirmation Bias ad nauseum
@@randycolclough5203What part exactly?
@@KaiserSoze-us9jiUhh the facts are not in the church's favor lol. Funny how now in the age of the internet the church quietly publishes the gospel topic essays confirming information that was once considered "antimormon". You don't even have to try hard to find enough info that completely demolishes the legitimacy of the church, can even use church approved materials that have been sold in deseret book if you want. At some point it will all come crashing down. Don't worry bud you'll realize the truth eventually.
@@KaiserSoze-us9ji LOL - when you're duped and figure it out, you want others to know. History reflects the mormons - your LDS lens needs to be removed.
i grew up lds in utah and i just felt like this church wasn’t chill at all. watching your videos help me solidify i made the right choice to leave
Congratulations on getting out, how old were you when you left? I was 37 and I’m so happy to be out of this cult. By the way, I noticed your last name was Wilcox. Is that any relation to Brad? He was the first counselor in the bishopric when my grandfather was Bishop and he and I had many interactions. I thought maybe he has a daughter named Megan, but I could be wrong about that. Just curious.🌞
“Wasnt chill at all” might be my favourite description to date lol. Glad you’re out and glad you feel confident in that decision.
@@aubrey6538he was never in though the lds r NOT 🚫 Genuine Mormons
@@aubrey6538It's likely that it could be a big family name. It's not uncommon to see a lot of the same name repeatedly in Utah, especially with the early church history of polygamy. I thought I knew a guy with a unique name but it turns out there were 10 other people with the same exact name scattered around Utah and nearby states. Many seemingly unrelated local friends I grew up around could trace their family lineages back to each other too haha.
"Turns out he was just reading the newspaper like everyone else" is such a slow-burn of an insult.
I was a vulnerable teenager and at 16 was married to a man who was Joseph Smith's first cousin, 5x removed. I'm just now learning what I escaped. (quickly, thank goodness, he abandoned me when I was 17)
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I hope you are doing better and have good and fulfilling life now.
Hope you are well. Being abandoned by a bad person is a blessing in disguise. Sorry you were subjected to bad stuff young but at least this way you have more life ahead of you than it it had dragged on till later in life. NOT that I don't encourage ANYBODY of ANY age to escape whatever hell they are in.
As a Vermonter (expat), I apologize for Joseph Smith, and Brigham Young being from VT.
It actually took me time to deal with your story. I am so very sorry that you went through that.
I love that I, a lifelong atheist, officially know more about Joseph Smitch than a lot of Mormons
Yeah right, whatever floats your boat little buddy *patpat*
The conolete heretics guide was pretty informative.
Quite a few prophets end ip hearing that god says they need to sleep with pops wives.
@@ezrasmithezzy mormon detected :p
@@ezrasmithezzy Having been both (a member of the LDS church and an atheist), I agree that @LexxLifts likely knows a lot more about Joseph Smith than a lot of (I would even say *most*) "Mormons". Most members I knew of knew *very little* about what Joseph Smith actually did beyond the Church-approved hagiography.
@@ezrasmithezzy cope
The 'con' in conman is short for Confidence. Being able to lie with the highest confidence is the foundation of it.
Thats what a psycho narc i know said wqs hia secret.
@@jhoughjr1 Aye. It's used by the media commonly too, who adopted the idea from Goebbels.
If you act like you're confident in what you're saying, then you can lie about anything and everything and the average person will fall for it, and spookily they are more likely to fall for it the bigger and more ridiculous the lies is, because normal people think "nobody would lie about something like that so it must be true."
Why would he for decades allow himself and his family to be persecuted for a lie? Seriously, why would he put his and his family’s life constantly in danger for a lie? Make it make sense, buddy. Also, there is no court record that Joseph Smith ever convicted of a felony.
@@theephraimite Many criminals do not get their day in court.
To quote the Beverly Hillbillies: "He sure is! we ain't go nothin' but confidence in him!"
as an exjw i find these videos super interesting because the similarities in the propaganda production is insane
Completely agree, watching how leaders employ the same tactics to maintain control is truly terrifying and cathartic all at once.
It's funny that faithful JWs and Mormons are borderline enemies, but once we've escaped the clutches of their control and coercion, we're brothers and sisters. It's kind of cool actually.
Exactly!
@@chrismiddleton4733 so true!!! i watch alyssa and mormon stories podcast regularly to see what the cult cousins have been up to 💀 we have more in common than i realized before leaving
@chrismiddleton4733 Been watching both myself and both groups use 'brothers and sisters." Think Mormons got one up on them with tithing. J-dubs say it's not Biblical, so have missed out on a lot of Mormon 💰 💰
thank you for the content you make, i’m currently required to go to mormon church every sunday because of my very religious parents. your content is what i’ve been looking for and i’m so glad i found your channel! thank you for taking the risk and sharing temple secrets and the crazy history of the church
i hope you can stay safe and leave the church when it’s right for you ❤
@@Magic_4792 thank you sm as much as the church has been kind to me and my family, there’s no future for me within the church and my parents know that. out of the 5 kids in my family only the youngest still believes in the church and that’s because she’s 8 and just got baptized, i hope she can find her way out like the rest of us have
One day you'll be old enough to make your own choices and break the chain ⛓️
Hang in there. My parents started locking me in my room if I refused to go. I left home at 17. My mom is the only member of my family still in the church.
At seven minutes where you’re talking about Joseph Smith’s having a vision and a room with a bunch of other people and being in a trance and telling everybody that they had a veil over their eyes, that’s why they couldn’t see it. It just sounds so cringe after leaving the church. I just can’t believe I believed in all that for 37 years it’s just crazy to hear this stuff outside the bubble. Thank you so much for this video. Thank you for all of your work. I absolutely loved it.
All that matters is you are out and FREE. I hope you get your name off their roll. You'll be at a level of being FREE you've never felt before.
I'm not morman. never have been and don't know anyone that is, but I've been watching your videos anyways because i love to learn so thank you. Also, you look so good and happy!🥰 wishing you the best as you keep moving forward🤍
Thank you so much for watching and for commenting!
Me either! (I'm a former Baptist in the deep south.) But I love learning about other religions/religious sects, and this series has been fascinating.
If Joseph Smith had been trying to organize his cult religion today he would have met with fierce opposition from the psychiatric profession and community. He most certainly would have been diagnosed with a psychotic disorder like schizophrenia with delusions of grandeur and psychiatrically treated with a butt-full of Haldol or Thorazine or another powerful psychotropic medication to dampen his break from reality along with visual and auditory hallucinations and his grandiose delusions.
But as a mental health professional I don’t see Joseph Smith as psychotic.
He had his act together enough to become an occult Free Mason. I simply see him just another garden variety con artist like Jim Jones and David Koreesh and dozens of other sociopathic con artists and fake prophets that were proliferating during this period of American history for whatever reason. Something in the drinking water?
I am a huge, huge fan of Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of the First Church of Christ, Scientist, otherwise known as Christian Science. In fact I have integrated many principles of Christian Science into my own life. She is a sterling example of an authentic Christian teacher and leader that arose to great prominence during this particular spiritual era of American history in contrast to many of her false contemporaries like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young who were more cult leaders than authentic Christian teachers like Mary Baker Eddy. I hold Baker Eddy and Christian Science in great high esteem for her groundbreaking work into esoteric and mystical Christianity and spiritual healing through the power of prayer and Christ.
Unlike Joseph Smith who would have been psychiatrically committed to a psychiatric ward and medicated, there was nothing but a deep true authenticity and integrity with the teachings of Christian Science and Mary Baker Eddy. Just sayin’
The Scriptures admonishes us to beware of false prophets. I saw many red flags to the story of Joseph Smith along with his Free Mason membership and practice of polygamy many years prior to the CES letter and tsunami wave of former LDS members waking up and smelling the coffee. No pun attended! I was totally brainwashed by the Catholic Church in my youth, so it is with so much empathy and compassion that I listen to several former LDS Mormon member channels to listen to the heroic and courageous and inspirational stories I hear today coming out of the experiences of former LDS Church members. I am so optimistic and inspired when I see people breaking the chains of religious tyranny and mind control, gaslighting, patriarchy and brainwashing. It takes great Courage!
It took me decades to recover from the toxic influence of Catholicism on my psyche and Soul. It’s not a journey for the faint of heart, but it is a journey worth taking and that the Soul yearns for when the religious oppression and tyranny becomes too suffocating as it was in my own case. This is when the journey of true spirituality truly commences when we can extricate ourselves from the straitjacket of religion, rules, dogma and doctrines. For a Soul there is no substitute for true spirituality, sovereignty and freedom. 🌀
✨☀️✨🌘🌞🌒✨☀️✨
✨☀️✨🌘🌞🌒✨☀️✨
I love the continuity to the narrative you provide like no other. Thanks,
I'm from Brasil and here we have more Jehova Witness than mormons but yesterday I saw a tweet about mórmons visiting someones house and just being thankfull to be fed and being able to call family in utah insisting that they couldnt talk in english with a girl that wanted to because church said they only should talk in portuguese
I immediately thought of your channel and how brain washed they must have been. thanks for your content once again❤!
I have Brazilian roots, and I have also been visited by Mormon missionaries. They are interesting fellows, always ready to talk and discuss and explain but never really willing to listen. 'Ask God tonight: is this book true? Was Joseph Smith really a prophet?' If you ask with sufficient sincerity, He will answer'. The next time they visited, I told them I had asked God, who told me that the book wasn't true and Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet. The two boys looked at each other, and said, 'I think that was not God'.
I was in the Mormon church for 24 years from 1993. Thats 24 arduous and insipid years I'll never get back.
You were expected to have a full time job, a good marriage, raise five kids and serve the church, all in one go. There was a list of principles to follow longer than a map of Chile that prevented any kind of enjoyment in life. After a while, i asked myself; when do i actually get to experience some pleasures in life with all these rules, commitments and expenses? If you weren't preparing a lesson for next Sunday, you were wasting time on scriptures or making sure your tithing was up to date.
Because many in the congregation were people off the street that the missionaries find and quickly baptize before they're ready, they were totally unsuited to church life, and out of step with their surroundings. Its a common sight to visit a Mormon church and find members who just look.......out of place. Most other churches just allow their congregations to form organically, that is, the only people present, are those who WANT to be present.
I found Mormons a tardy and unreliable bunch. They just failed me repeatedly. They never did anything i ever asked them to do, and often got in my way whenever i tried doing something positive for myself. The final straw came when i sold a car to a fellow church member. He was going to pay for the car in installments, but only paid the first couple, then just stopped before clearing the debt, which i found dishonest. He claimed he was short of money, but bought another car in the meantime. Three years later i was forced to insist on the remaining balance or I'd take legal action, so, long story short, got the full amount eventually. Shortly after, i just washed my hands of the church.
There's just nothing about the church i admire or like.
Im currently going through a kind of faith crisis. Im basically sure I no longer believe but there is still a seed of doubt in the back of my mind from hearing so many people bare their testimonies for so long. Your videos help so much!
God is still God and He’s still on the throne.
th-cam.com/video/qmhb27f2d88/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nco8VeBl84Ql8awQ
This might help explain the spiritual witness you’ve observed.
Or, he isn't and you sound silly. That is the question people wrestle with, if they are willing and able to do so, @@elvadrum4965
Original 1830 Text (Mosiah 9, p. 200):
“…King Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings…”
Current, Altered Text (Mosiah 21:28):
“…King Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings…”
Original 1830 Text (Ether 1, p. 546):
“…and for this cause did King Benjamin keep them…”
Current, Altered Text (Ether 4:1)
“…and for this cause did King Mosiah keep them…”
According to Book of Mormon chronology, King Benjamin was already dead when these events took place. Apparently LDS leaders changed the name to Mosiah to eliminate the mistake. There also appear to be changes to the text attempting to accommodate later developing doctrines within the church:
Original 1830 Text (1 Nephi 5, p. 52)
“…O house of Jacob, which are called out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord…”
Current, Altered Text (1 Nephi 20:1):
“…O house of Jacob, which are called out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, which swear by the name of the Lord…”
The late addition to the text appears to be in an effort to accommodate and justify the evolving doctrine of Mormon baptism. Mormon apologists sometimes claim this late addition is simply clarification of the text, but as Christians, we know that no late addition to scripture, whether it is a commentary or late clarification, can ever be allowed to enter into God’s Word. God is very clear about that. Mormons have done this, however, and they have also changed the Book of Mormon several times in order to eradicate early doctrines:
Original 1830 Text (2 Nephi 12, p. 117):
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.”
Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, 1840 edition)
“…and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white pure and a delightsome people.”
Still Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…white and delightsome…”
Even Later, Altered Text (2 Nephi 30:6, editions until 1981):
“…pure and delightsome…”
Before 1978, dark-skinned males were not allowed to hold positions of priesthood authority within the Mormon Church. Today Mormon scriptures continue to teach dark skin is a curse from God and a sign of His displeasure (See 1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:21; Alma 3:6). Brigham Young, second president and prophet of the LDS church referred to those with dark skin as being “cursed with a s(k)in of blackness” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 272). The Church appears to be struggling with its early statements about people with dark skin. Rather than allow the Book of Mormon to speak for itself, they have altered it to minimize the impact of early Church doctrine.
The Most Troubling Changes
At the very least, the Book of Mormon is untrustworthy as an historical document. At worst, it has not been treated as a sacred text and includes the late work of editors. In addition to changes we’ve already discussed, there are an even more significant set of alterations occurring over time to the Book of Mormon. Many changes were made to accommodate the changing theology of Joseph Smith. While God may reveal himself to us in ever increasing increments over time, Christians understand God never contradicts His earlier revelations. But, the evolving theology of Joseph Smith, as seen in his scriptural writings, does just that: Joseph paints a picture of a god who changes his revelation of himself and contradicts his own earlier revelation. Let’s begin to take a look at the issue by examining some changes in the book of Mormon:
Original 1830 Text (1 Nephi 3, p. 25):
“And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh.”
Current, Altered Text (1 Nephi 11:18):
“And he said unto me, Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God.”
Original 1830 Text (1 Nephi 3, p. 25):
“And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Eternal Father!”
Current, Altered Text (1 Nephi 11:21):
“And the angel said unto me, behold the Lamb of God, even the Son of the Eternal Father!”
Original 1830 Text (1 Nephi 3, p. 26):
“And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.”
Current, Altered Text (1 Nephi 11:32):
“And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the Everlasting God, was judged of the world.”
Original 1830 Text (1 Nephi 3, p. 32):
“These last records … shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.”
Current, Altered Text (1 Nephi 13:40)
“These last records … shall make known to all kindreds, tongues, and people, that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father and the Savior of the world.”
Did you notice something common to all these alterations? They represent a change in theology. All these passages, in their first versions, describe a monotheistic God. While Joseph initially held the historic Christian belief there is only one God, he departed from orthodoxy by denying there is a clear distinction between the Persons within the Trinity. A number of passages in the Book of Mormon present Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ as the same Person. Theologians call this “modalism”, because Father and Son are understood not as distinct persons, but merely as different modes in which the one God has manifested Himself at different times. But importantly, later versions of the Book of Mormon were then altered to accommodate Joseph’s later-developing polytheism. Clearly Joseph held an evolving notion of the nature of God. In his earliest writings he is a monotheist, but as time passed, he abandoned his monotheism for a distinct Mormon brand of polytheism.
Most Bibles contain maps illustrating where important biblical events took place. You can visit the ruins or cities described in the Bible(Jerusalem, Antioch, Bethlehem, Damascus, Babylon, Ephesus, Thessaloniki, etc...). If you get atheist, Christian, and Jewish scholars together, they can agree on where the events allegedly took place and confirm the existence of cities and sites in those places, even if an atheist or a Jew denies certain miracles or historical events took place there.
Nothing comparable can be said about the Book of Mormon.
Some Mormons say the events of the book take place across North and South America. Others say it took place in Central America, in Panama or Mexico. And still other say the events of the book took place in the Heartland of America. That’s why some Mormons are conducting expeditions in Southeast Iowa to uncover the ancient city of Zaramehla that purportedly had 100,000 people living in it in the fourth century, which would have made it one of the largest cities in ancient North America. But so far, the expeditions haven’t found a single thing.
In fact, according to the National Geographic Society, “Archaeologists and other scholars have long probed the hemisphere’s past, and the society does not know of anything found so far that has substantiated the Book of Mormon.”
To put this into perspective, it would be very difficult to defend the Bible if some Christians said the city of Jerusalem was in Israel, others said it was in southern France, and still others said it was in India.
Latter-Day Saint Thomas Stuart Ferguson was the founder of BYU's archaeology division(New World Archaeological Foundation). NWAF was financed by the LDS church to find archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon. After many years of diligent effort, this is what Ferguson wrote in a letter about trying to dig up evidence for the Book of Mormon: "...you can't set the Book of Mormon geographically down anywhere-because it is fictional and will never meet the requirements of the dirt - archaeology. I should say - what is in the ground will never confirm what is in the book."
A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon Cult:
*In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy.
*In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy.
*In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)
If their faith, even if it built on lies, brings them comfort, then just be happy for them. If it does not bring you joy, then maybe it is your spirit letting you know that this isn't for you. Their joy doesn't require a divine reality. I hope you can build a joyful life for yourself,
You too are not alone... 36% of people born to the Mormon faith...leave it.
That is more than 1/3.
You are not alone in finding the faith uncomfortable and unjoyous
Your title: “founding a church for power and sex” pretty well summarizes the conclusion I reached decades ago when I read the Doctrine And Covenants. I am a dedicated Catholic but I had a very close friend and co-worker who was Mormon and always ready to discuss religion. He knew that I wanted to learn more, and “borrowed” a D&C copy from his church which he gave me to keep.
I started reading and… wow. No wonder Mormons don’t show people the D&C until they’ve been converted. Milk before meat indeed. I was floored by the sections where JS wrote that he had special revelations specifically for his (first) wife Emma, telling her to shut up and accept his sex-crazed dalliances.
I'm a Catholic who lives in a state with plenty of Mormons. They sure are big on giving other people a "gift"(a Book of Mormon) and very quiet about all of the very bizarre beliefs they hold. They save all the really strange stuff( D&C and temple stuff) until AFTER somebody is baptized and then they do as much as possible to isolate them from outsiders and outside information on the faith.
I was invited as a young Christian to my friend’s ward. I knew a lot already because I have a lot of Mormon family members and had researched. I was frustrated at how much they made it seem like regular Christianity. The basically showed a video on the prodigal son and talked about Jesus.
So I'm nevermo but my ex girlfriend in high school was raised Mormon. (I'm a woman.) When she broke up with me, I was pretty hurt the whole thing because I hated the idea that she was ashamed of me, and couldn't really see why she wasn't okay being open about it, since we lived in a very liberal area. But watching your videos has really helped me emphasise with her and see how deeply ingrained all this stuff is and how hostile Mormonism can be to queer people and women both. I really hope she's doing all right, wherever she is, and I hope she's been able to get out and be her true self.
That stuff is super ingrained in you. I grew up Mormon but consider myself somewhat open-minded, I just broke up with a boy after dating him for a year because I couldn’t emotionally get over the Mormon brainwashing. I loved him so much, it’s just that he drank and smoked, and even though mentally I know it’s not a big deal, I couldn’t get over the conditioning and would feel really stressed and sick whenever he did or I knew of him doing it. I realized even though I logically was okay with it, the conditioning is just part of who I am now and it’s okay. Sad stuff, different lives. I hope you’re doing better now!
“Rough Stone Rolling” goes hard as a title, have to give it to the morms on that one
True! Funny enough both titles of both books are a phrase from quotes by Joseph Smith himself. “I am like a huge, rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else, striking with accelerated force against religious bigotry, priestcraft, lawyer-craft, doctor-craft, lying editors, suborned judges and jurors, and the authority of perjured executives, backed by mobs, blasphemers, licentious and corrupt men and women-all hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus I will become a smooth and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty” and “You don’t know me; you never knew my heart. No man knows my history. I cannot tell it: I shall never undertake it. I don’t blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I would not have believed it myself. I never did harm any man since I was born in the world. My voice is always for peace.”
My ancestor, William Draper, Jr., was converted in Ontario, Canada, in 1832. He apparently knew Joseph Smith fairly well if not quite well. He came with Brigham Young across the plains and was one of the first Mormon settlers in Salt Lake. He was a personal associate of Brother Brigham and had seven wives. He is the man after whom Draper, Utah, is named and is my 3rd great-grandfather. I was raised Mormon but am currently atheist.
So at its simplest, Smith was a philandering con-artist who was smart enough to realise that creating a religion equates to money, women and power. Throw in some charisma and you got a cult leader.
Yes! Exactly. I think he realized that if he could say wild things with a straight face, some percentage of people would believe him.
Another thing I found odd: the LDS church doesn't officially worship Joe Smith but they sure act like a lot of the time. One time at a doctor's office I showed up 45 minutes early and picked up an Ensign magazine for grins. One thing I noticed flipping through it: God (or 'holy father') was mentioned like twice and nearly every article just went on and on about Joseph Smith. So they don't worship the guy, eh? Could've fooled me! God doesn't get top-billing in that religion. The pecking-order is: Joe Smith, Uncle Brigham, God.
@@Skank_and_Gutterboy It's a similar principle in Islam. Muslims say they don't worship the prophet, but they sure act like they do.
Cults seem to follow the same playbook.
And the methods still work with Mega Churches and the Prosperity Gospel 💩🤡
L Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology once said “you don’t get rich writing science fiction novels, you start a religion” (paraphrasing)
I knew about the LDS but after seeing the South Park episode where the creators added "they really believe this" where they told something incredible unbelievable my jaw dropped.
Who could ever fall for this. Well, people are born into it and I wish strength to the ones who realize what they fell for.
I would say from personal experience it's a mix of that and also getting a lot of social approval for it. Humans are hard wired for connection so when everyone around you believes the same thing and bears their testimony with their whole heart, it can be so much more convincing than your own reality. It's also coming from family, friends and everybody you trust so why would they ever lead you astray? I trusted my parents, friends and neighbors. Everyone was in on it so it was very normal for me (that doesn't make my experiences any less traumatizing but I had no other idea of normal to compare it to)
Incredibly intelligent and smart people can be susceptible to cults. Smart people who I trusted believed in it so they surely couldn't be wrong. Loneliness can always play a huge factor into why people join cults as well.
That episode was about scientology. South Park creators seem to have almost a fondness for Mormonism (though they certainly aren't Mormons themselves!)
@@fluffysheap Check out the episode "All about Mormons" (s07e12) Did they not lose the voice actor for Chef because of the episode about Scientology?
Oooo this video is fresh
Just wanted to say I find your content very informative! I am not a Mormon myself and never have been but I have a lot of friends who are. Your content makes me feel really worried for them and I hope one day I can get them to see how culty Mormonism is
I hope so too! You never think you're in a cult when you're in a cult, and that's the hardest part about getting out.
The Mormon church has changed crazy fast and they don’t acknowledge the past. They info keep by telling members to only search from inspired sources(the church website). It has become less and less cultish and strict over the years, probably to keep membership as times change! Even sacred temple ceremonies have changed! It’s all good change, and I appreciate it, but I don’t think people will recognize it’s cultish because it’s disconnecting itself from those ties. And ultimately people choose to do what makes them happy, so if the church becomes less and less harmful and people choose to stay I don’t see the issue too much. They still have a long way to go though
I never thought about it as a kid, and I have never seen the movie at the start. But communities don’t just tar and feather a guy for no reason. He really must have done something much more than just “speak the truth” too hard. To me, Joseph smith was just a story from long ago. But he was a real man in a history that’s not so far away from now.
I thought about that a lot as a kid, but to be fair I also was skeptical very young. I remember my dad making a point about what a "wonderful choice I would be making" when I was getting baptized soon (I was almost 8, as I was born into the church) and I hadnt realized yet there was a choice. I knew I was expected to do it, so it never occurred to me that I could say that I didn't want to.
So I asked how my family would feel if I chose not to, or chose to wait until I was sure?
And my dad shut me down immediately and went something like "you wouldnt do that, because you're faithful and righteous." And thats about the moment when i lost my faith, because i realized no one would ever care about my beliefs if they didnt line up exactly with what was expected.
@@ceresXaliceGood kid.
I will say that's not a very accurate statement to apply broadly, as there have been countless times where incredibly barbaric (things much worse than just tarring and feathering) for legitimately no reason or who did nothing deserving of punishment like that. So it's possible that they could've done it for no reason, just that this situation wasn't one of those times lol.
Fun fact: I was on the group that did the view testing for this film! They used the LOTR music when Gandalf falls for the scene at the beginning of this video. My seminary teacher was a big person in church media and gave me extra credit to view it.
"What can be ssserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" is known as Hitchens' Razor.
I've watched a bunch of your videos and really appreciate your clear, sharp, entertaining narratives. I was raised non-religious, but have always been fascinated by faith and religion, esp. Mormonism. I've met many lovely and fine LDS people, but I am always mystified how anyone could subscribe to such a whacky and unlikely story. You provide a lot of eye opening insider viewpoints. Thank you Alyssa! You're providing a great service. I will continue to invite missionaries into my house for soda and chat. Thanks to you, I have a fuller understanding of where they are coming from.
Saying the "plates" were under a cloth or in another room is being really, really, REALLY generous.
Like saying, ''of course I have a girlfriend. You wouldn't know her, she doesn't go here.''
It just kept getting more and more obscure .. Poor women, poor Emma, imagine knowing full well your husband is a lying cheating predator and then have to live with someone you considered your daughter as a SISTER-WIFE, nooooooo 😭😭😭
Great video, Alyssa. I paused in the middle of it to watch Tim Minchin's "Thank you God" video for the first time and laughed myself silly! 🤣Thank you for that!!!
Tim Minchin is such a riot! The man oozes talent in so many areas.
I am learning as a 72 year old woman that following Christ’s teaching can be very difficult! Especially when you are getting what he said or did from others sources that may or may not be reliable! Faith along with research, study, and your gut instincts is really all that you have! Don’t ever apologize for crying or showing emotion! You are doing a great service for sharing your experience as a Mormon! I am often disappointed in my faith because of people warping Christ’s teachings. I love Christ teachings of love one another as you love yourself! It feels right for me. There are a lot of different paths to God and Christ is one of them! The problem with Religions including mine is that greed, power, and control are the ultimate goal instead of love, service, and the betterment of if humanity and the love of of our universe that God has created. All you can do is believe in your heart what your concept of God is and live the best life that you can! I really think that True Higher Love is the most important way to live!
I left the church long ago when I decided that I needed to live a life that fit me rather than one where I had to try to fit in. It was a miserable life, always feeling guilty and never good enough. From today's perspective I see that self-sacrifice in the form of excessive service to others is a detrimental, false ideology. I don't see those years as wasted though because they were the first ones to teach me about unconditional love and forgiveness. They taught me how to use loving and kind words. Things I hadn't learned in my home. Where most of us failed, however, was believing people are who they say they are, when they don't even know themselves😢
You have to admit that the device of the "Golden plates" was brilliant.
There have been many messianic figures who have come and gone, but asserting the existence of physical scripture gave Smith credibility the others arguably couldn't match.
Not really. Any detractor can say that he made them himself and dictated whatever he wanted.
@@cometmoon4485that’s why he didn’t show them to hardly anyone
Also nobody ever saw them and no where to be found today’s 👀🤷😳
@@cometmoon4485 Yeah, but enough people believed him and still do to make a massive worldwide religion.
Like I said, Smith wasn't the only guy trying, but he was one of the few to make such a massive success, and I think using props really put him ahead of others.
Of course anyone with a brain realizes it was a total swizzle; he didn't even bother to make actual plates (the only people who said they saw them were his family and partners, and they didn't see them with their "physical" eyes), he just made up whatever crap he wanted, and now many millions worship him like a god.
The one saving grace is that he himself didn't really live long enough to enjoy it.
@@TonyandSusie-MillersontheMove The only people that are said to have seen them are family members and some close friends who were partners in establishing the religion.
And even they admitted that they didn't see the plates with their "physical" eyes, they saw them with their "spiritual" eyes, which is to say: no one ever actually saw them.
I do wonder if Mormonism would have flourished, as it has in the intervening years, if Joseph Smith was not killed and made a martyr.
I wonder the same thing about christianity. Martyring someone in their prime seems to REALLY help move cults into full blown religions.
@@Elizabeth-n3v2u While I think you and I approach it from very different perspectives, I can assure you without the death & resurrection of Christ, there would be no Christianity. It was the entire point.
About faith healings: I am a psychiatrist. Faith healings DO have a place and an effect in the treatment of certain psychogenic symptoms. I have seen people “paralyzed” get up and walk, I’ve seen “seizures” healed, all sorts of things. My opinion is that this type of “healing” explains the faith healings of Joseph Smith, but couldn’t fully think that through while I was still trying to be in the church. The belief that something works or will work can definitely have a certain level of power, even if medically it is clearly placebo.
I have been stalking this channel for part 2. Nevermo, but I am intrigued. thank you
Come to church.
You can actually learn and experience something greater than cynicism
No, thanks. I believe in myself, not in god.
I really appreciate your content! I have a stepdaughter that converted for a boyfriend who she eventually eternally married. Glad to know that I'm not alone in my opinions of the character of Joseph Smith
The Joseph Smith story is so insane i feel like Will Ferrell needs to make a movie about this.
It all has very Life of Brian vibes, except Smith was actually trying to convince everyone he was the Messiah when he was, in fact, a Very Naughty Boy. I guess people just lied about anything back in the 1830s.
I think George Clooney has more charisma
Insane behavior wasn't exclusive to LDS, there were also people known as "Holy Rollers" so named because they would become overwhelmed with the "spirit" and literally physically roll around rooms.
There were so many groups that had extreme physical ritual behaviors that the term "holy roller" became a catch-all for people of different movements.
the Holy Rollers were a specific sex cult that hung out in oregon for a while if i have my facts right, the podcast Behind The Bastards did a good series on them lol
@@mehmeh2255 but weren't they religious in some way?
The term "holy roller" definitely came to mean "fringe religious person", so there must be some connection.
@@itsROMPERS... Holy Rollers, also sometimes called Jesus freaks which is where we get that term, were definitely a Christian religious cult. Also true that they used the free love movement to their advantage in both recruitment and abuse. Edited for a typo
This sort of behavior is also common in more extreme versions of Baptist and fundamentalist Christian groups today, usually called “charismatic” Christianity. Don’t remember why it’s called that but it doesn’t mean the same thing as charisma. It’s characterized by speaking in tongues, the laying of hands and healings, crying and extreme emotional displays, etc. I wonder if the Baptist preacher that brought all those followers into Mormonism was a “charismatic” preacher
@@mehmeh2255 The term "Holy Rollers" has been around for many decades. I remember my dad using it in the 1950s.
I was so looking forward to part 2, and now for part 3! I left the church over 20 years ago but I didn't learn about much of what ACTUALLY happened until in recent years, and it makes me sick to think of the millions of people over literal centuries now that are continually duped by this fraud.
Can I ask why so many mormon couples/families seem so unbelievably happy? Do they truly feel that happy or think they do or is it a pesona or put on act? They seem to have some degree of wealth, prosperity, good looks, beautiful loving families etc, etc. Genuine question, i was raised atheist I just observe social media and families I distantly know that are LDS.
@@ecampbell5837 I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but it's my opinion that it's mostly an act in order to accomodate the cognitive dissonance. I don't think it's a coincidence that Provo, UT has the highest concentration of Mormons and also of antidepressant prescriptions. If you see a family that appears prosperous and beautiful, they are probably also up to their eyeballs in debt trying to pay for all their enormous houses and vehicles etc. They are not any happier than anyone else, unless they are so immersed in the doublethink that ignorance is bliss. And of course, everyone is going to show their best, fakest lives on social media.
This series is a great example of source analysis and the principles of
Origin
Purpose
Values
And limitations
Good job
This is such a fascinating period of lost history. I have always found it fascinating that there are so many dissidents, anabaptists, and doomsday Christian sects emerging during this time. Your research is fascinating and your narrative has piqued my interest. I’m looking forward to the next episodes. Thank you ❤
Bingo. And then we have a now lost book that may have influenced Smith & maybe even been part of the Oahspe/Kosmon movement.
I’m 34 now and left the church when I was 17. I left because so many things were obviously untrue, but I wasn’t aware of many of the things you’ve mentioned. So watching these videos now, after I’ve spent half my life out of the church, is really interesting and just reinforces the decision I made when I was just a teenager trying to figure everything out with limited knowledge.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God who worshipped Jesus Christ and translated the Book of Mormon from plates of brass preserved over time by the hand of God. The Book of Mormon is complimentary to the Bible and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ...the only name whereby we can be saved.
After Joseph Smith was murdered in June of 1844, Brigham Young led many saints to SLC, Utah...while many others did not go (including Emma Smith, Joseph's only wife). Brigham Young was a false teacher and prophet who introduced several abominable practices into his denomination, including polygamy, men becoming Gods, God once being a man, blood atonement of men, a heavenly mother, and secret penal oath temple rituals. He corrupted the true History of the Church to pretend that those teachings came from Joseph Smith in order to gain support....and many today are still under that deception.
He was SUCH a rapscallion. I got to admire that. As someone who's never cheated anyone or committed a crime, DAMN, some people are so BOLD and so LUCKY.
The tomfoolery was truly outstanding
@@catherinec2600 I'm not moralistically knocking it. It was CHARMING compared to the lies and deceits and pyramid schemes we have today without religion. JOSEPH SMITH IS MY BRO.
as someone with a lot of confidence (idk why ive just been told i am) and who people seem to kinda take my word for things im glad i have too much empathy to lie to folks. i swear to god the way so many people just nod along when im info dumping about something - like im at all qualified to be talking about *special interest of the day* it worries me because its like "im not lying but like , ask a question or something im worried about your complacence im literally just telling you about a wikipedia article i thought was cool dont treat me like professor" . big words and confidence will get you a depressingly long way in life. Kindness also goes a long way so i do that instead but listening to how he could hold a rooms attention made me think - deeply
Lots of similarities between J. Smith and D. Trump. Mormons, on a general level (exceptions do exist, though), lean hard into Trumpism. Hard to reason with them.
What similarities? There are similarities between Karl Marx and Ron Jeremy, doesn't mean there are any 1 to 1 causation.
I think you're just part of the religion of liberal privilege. I find it amusing to see how Protestants evolve instantly into that.
yesss you posted right when I finished binge watching all your other videos! I have never been mormon but this channel is my new hyperfixation
I am in awe that you are making such a wonderful, complex story about Joseph Smith. I must add that I didn't know when I started listening to your videos, that he had more than one wife. It added to my wondering just what being a Morman was really all about. Thank you again for the extremely detailed look at Joseph Smith you are giving.
As a historian. I really appreciate the research and effort you put into this and the way that you emphasize that we should look at the sources as well. Knowledge is power, and being more informed helps us make better decisions going forward. Keep up the good work! 😊
as an exvangelical, i find it so interesting how similar yet how vastly different our experiences were. i love listening to you, thank you for all that you do!
look at you making the world a better place
i have never heard shenanigan used as a singular. i love it. brilliant.
This stuff is fascinating.
Keep it coming. I'm also impressed that a mom with young kids can read this much! Well done👍
I wonder how many mormons hold on to their faith, knowing full well that it is false, because of their pride. Admitting that you had bet your eternal existence on something that isn't true must be very ego shattering. But, ultimately freeing.
The prophet could come out tomorrow and say that Joseph smith made it all up (he never actually would) and there would be quiteee a few members who would still practice it anyways knowing full well it’s all a lie
Not even pride-- community. If you and everyone you know and care about have constructed their lives, identity, worldview, and culture around this insanity, just abandoning it can seem impossible. Especially if ALL your loved ones are committed to staying.
@@ryangriffin5362 So true.
This is true of all faiths, i think. I grew up attending church and I noticed that there were many members who seemed to know what I already suspected as a kid, that it was all made up. They didn't seem to live by, or take any direction from, or give any thought at all to the actual scripture. They were just there for community, networking and appearances. Some churches are MOSTLY made up of those kind of people, its all a big disingenuous cherade. Ugh. I went to a church like that, and was ostracised as a child for questioning blatent hypocrisy i witnessed. The other thing i notice is the people who seemed most sicere in their belief, and took it to heart, were the least educated and often the most gullible. They were routinely taken advantage of and often by others in the faith.
This is a very true and well spoken take!
clicked so fast. I really am learning so much about not only mormon history but american history through your channel.
Keep sharing your perspective!
Im always surprised (and not surprised) in the relatability of your story and experiences to my own as a non denominational christian apostate.
I like to remind people that Fawn Brodie was one of the first historians to thoroughly examine Thomas Jefferson's relationship with Sally Hemings in the 1970s. Brodie received a lot of criticism from the historical establishment at that time. However, DNA science advanced in later decades proved Brodie was right. It is now established historical consensus that Thomas Jefferson fathered children with Sally Hemings, his slave. Parenthetically, Sally was also Jefferson's half-sister in-law.
I had never heard so much information on Joseph Smith. Please continue this series. So fascinating!
Thank you very much for the in-depth information on Joseph Smith and the channel you’ve created as an ex-Mormon. I admire your courage and commitment to speak out.
My goodness - the parallels between Smith and Trump are astounding.
Both malignant narcissists.
Have thought that many times.
Amazing series 👌🏻 pretty well told and researched. I like that you tell the history with a non believe and a believer perspective. Not because I want it to be “unbiased” or something like that, but because it kind of gives you a perspective of what’s is the story Mormons tell themself, it helps you understand why so many people believe it to the core.
I would love to know more about what happens to all this divisions that happed after Joseph Smith died and what had they become till today. 👍🏻 hope you can include it eventually in this series 💕 that I hope it will be as long as it needs to be, I really like all the details you include 👌🏻 no need to summarize, I wanna know it all
I'm so glad you are speaking out about these things. The truth must come out.
Wow. Just .. WOWWW. ⚘ Before these current times and social media, it would not be possible for these (prophesied) Truths to be known. Well done!
The video at the beginning gave me such a huge flashback of watching that in Utah in the Joseph Smith museum and my super Mormon friends (I was a convert) talking about how hot he was and I remember them just completely fawning over him and his “holiness” 😂
Oh gawwwdddd 😂
So weird , because I'm not Mormon , but all my friends were. We would talk about teen stuff losing our virginity,sex, boy friends, partying,drugs, your normal teen stuff. One day one of my Mormon girlfriends was talking about saving herself for marriage, the one true one etc.. and how this person has to be special to give up her virginity. She then tells me she has anal sex all the time and it doesn't count against losing her virginity? Pretty much I was frozen and just stood there in my head WTF ok 🤔
One of the things that convinced me of the truth of Christianity and led me to the Catholic Church was the fact that after the Apostles none of the church fathers claimed that Jesus appeared to them. You would think that over the first 1000 years in order to gain more followers there would have been people who claimed that Jesus appeared to them. But that did not happen. Additionally, the Catholic Church was responsible for determining which books would be in the canon or Bible. There are some passages that contradict others and the church fathers knew this, yet they were led to include some passages and books that seemed contradictory. Following the resurrection there were no “magical” things pointed to by any of the church fathers.
There had been some supposed sightings of the Virgin Mary, some of which have been determined by the church to be probably true, most of which have been determined by the church to be false, but none of the bishops or priests or Cardinals or popes have claimed that Jesus appeared to them. Additionally, though there have been further understandings of tradition no ground breaking revelations have taken place in the church. No pope has claimed to have received a message directly from God to do something. This points to a level of soberness and stability that is far removed from the Mormon church. Additionally, there have never been any secret ceremonies and the church has no official teaching regarding your underwear.
The Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches still have the offices of Patriarch and Bishop, and of course priests and deacons. There are no prophets because the church does not believe that prophetism continued after the Bible. Ehe Pope for instance is patriarch of the West. There are patriarchs as the heads of several Eastern Catholic churches and as the heads of the autonomous Eastern Orthodox churches.
What more, our heaven is not about our idea of paradise. Whatever crowns or mansions were given, it says we cast them all at his feet and spend eternity worshiping him. Islam and Mormon heaven seem to be man-made.
Hi Alyssa, this is yet another powerful video! Congrats on how much all your hard work is paying off.
Also, want to just give a heads-up - under "Video about connections between the temple and masonry produced by the Mormon church" it just links to the main "videos" page which is over 800 videos. Is the actual reference video the one named "Joseph Smith and Masonry"? I'm figuring it is, just wanted to let you know that right now the link is not to that.
❤ love and support to you for doing this work. You’re basically doing Mormon Stories Podcast LDS Discussions series except by yourself 😂 but it’s really good because theirs (while very good) are like four hours long per episode and they span like five episodes per one of yours in terms of subject matter. So it’s good that someone is doing it in a shorter format.
Ahhhhhh! So one might say that Joseph Smith was a "confidence man"
Ok, so poligamy to me was was explained that God wanted to multiply and strengthened (googled these two words to check spelling and first result is LDS page Strengthening the Family: Multiply and Replenish the Earth 😆) His people and the best way was to have more childrend and they had to take care of women that lost their husbands, but when there was enough Saints, God sent relevation that poligamy is over. Ex-member from Croatia. Hi! 😄 Love your channel. ❤
Yes, they also stopped polygamy so that Utah could become a state. It was explained to me like that too:( really gross how everything is explained away so early, especially disgusting things like polygamy
Great video. My only complaint is that it was put out six days ago and, therefore, there isn't a third one that I can immediately binge watch. I hope you are well. 🤗
When I was an atheist my Mormon family saw me as an insane person. Now I'm a Christian they see me as a threat.
The only time you were truly sane was when you were an atheist. Religion is the separation of your mind from reality. Mormon, Christian, JW or any other religion is nothing but control of your mind through conditioning and brainwashing. As a former atheist you should have been fully aware of that fact. It is not sane to ignore fact.
was just watching part one again yesterday! perfect timing ❤️
Smith was like an L'Ron Hubbard of his time
Thank you so much for this, my family's next door neighbors were Mormon and we would go on summer vacation trips together. I always wanted to learn more about the religion, but was too shy to ask them much.
Born and raised Mormon in Utah. I got out at 20. It was 1990. Suddenly 3 months ago I became obsessed with learning about it. I'm learning a lot!
I don't think he EVER believed the crap he was saying... he was simply a con man. Period.
So glad for a new upload! Been watching your videos lately and just finished all your long form content a few days ago. Super happy to see your channel grow and you sharing all your research with us
Great video; really loved it. Just have to mention that we all really have to break our habits of using euphemisms when adult men prey on kids. Smith didn't "get involved with" the teenage girl Nancy; he groomed and preyed on her.
I really enjoy your anveiling of the truth and the ugly. Keep up your great work
I’m not Mormon, and I’ve never met a Mormon before, but your story is SO captivating. Thank you so much for sharing ❤️
Well done. Let’s be honest, most people haven’t the time or inclination to read those books, but you do a very good job summarizing the contents. Especially enjoyed your reenactment of Joe Smith suddenly staring into space, then telling the other people in the room about Jesus being there. Your presentations are getting better and better. Looking forward to your next episode.
I read "No Man Knows My History" several years ago. Very interesting.
Just in time for me to come home from a mission farewell! Thank you!!
As Sam Harris said (to paraphrase somewhat): "They all play tennis without a net, so they can't lose."
So glad I'm right on time for this. This is a unique slice of American History!
You school teaching experience is certainly coming into play. You rapidly but thoroughly move through this fascinating information (I'm a nosy non Mormon). 🎉
You're more than just nosy. Just ask your boyfriend.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D GOD takes offense to being called G2D. Channeled it 😅
In grade 8, I was in a heavily catholic school, I had my first seizure, I heard voices during it (I think). Once it stopped, and I was barely functional, I told my teacher that I heard voices, and I don't know what happened. With a straight face, she said (paraphrased): "That was the Holy Spirit talking to you.".
She made me take me seat, didn't call anyone, didn't seek out medical attention, and made it into a religious experience. Once my parents found out what happened, she didn't get fired, didn't get suspended, and I had to apologize to her, for my parents yelling at her. Yep......
In a bad mood already, debating my decision to watch your video right now... 😂😂😂
This is so real. Sometimes I just can’t.
Maybe take a nap first for this round haha
I love to see more comments from people that have never been mormon and are becoming interested in your channel. As a person from eastern europe, I would NEVER know about mormons if not for youtube
A very interesting vidéo.
I'm not a religious person and a few years ago I decided to study the subject more closely to understand it's appeal. I followed an "historical-critical" approach watching the vidéos of Dr Christine Hayes (Hebrew Bible), Dr Dale Martin (New Testament), Dr Bart Ehrman (a bit of both), Domnic Crossan and others. I learnt a lot and came to have an appreciation for ancient holy texts, including the Quran. A lot of Western law is derived from Deuteronomic legal texts. There are some solid historical connections, such as references to Pontius Pilate. That said the only Biblical author that historians can identify with certainty are the 7 uncontested letters of Paul. The other texts are either pseudonymous or a synthesis of different sources.
That said, anything that Joseph Smith wrote is, in my opinion, crap. Not only doesn't it have the slightest historical foundation, it's also technologically anachronistic, which one cannot say of ancient Western religious texts. If he sold it as a work of fiction, I'd have no quarrel with it. To describe his writings as scripture is obscene.
If we take a closer look at the Holy Quran, it's a synthesis of Jewish and Christian holy texts, including apocryphal books like the childhood gospel of Thomas. My point here is that the Holy Quran has a solid foundation in ancient canonical and non-canonical texts. Just for the record, the Holy Quran took its canonical form ca 20 years after the death of the Prophet Mohammed. Yes, the Hadith is a mess and took ca 300 years to take shape and remains a matter of contention among Quranic scholars even today.
I also find it outrageous, offensive even that 1 person can claim to have the insight to "improve" upon these ancient documents. When the King James Bible was written, scholars turned to the original texts in ancient Hebrew and Greek, feeling that Jerome's Latin vulgate (based on the Septuagint) was inadequate for Protetstants. But I feel Grenfell is spot-on when she says Smith's edits were self-serving and it was impossible for him to provide any meaningful evidence that his edits were in any other way justified.
Would you ever consider doing a comprehensive series like this about Brigham Young? Thank you for putting this together and sharing your research!
yeah, saying "the states are gonna have a civil war over slavery soon" in the 1820s-30s is not evidence of prophecy. it's evidence of having eyes. the us was visibly heading toward conflict with itself over slavery since the foundations of the republic and this was a major topic of discussion amongst citizens in the prewar era. we really don't teach about that enough
Really appreciate these deep dives - thanks for all the hard work!
Loving these history vids! Can’t wait for the next part. Do you think you could go over the life of Brigham Young after you cover Joseph’s life? I always heard that he was the one who established “mainstream” Mormonism, but I can’t find any comprehensive, neutral information on him as good as what you do. It would be awesome to see how he turned the ramblings of Joseph into this codified religion we see today 😍.
Excellent , the way you cover the history of the mormons;you move right along; while covering all the ground.
Great video. Interesting to continue to learn about one of my relatives, who was a convert, came to believe. Having grown up near Kirtland, even in my community which had very few Mormons, it was a Thing™️
This was so well-researched, thorough, and informative.
Alyss, you are doing important work here. Keep it up!
Not all religions can be right but they all can be wrong.
My friend's relative left the church, he had a really hard time with it, one day he was in a Barnes & Noble and just snapped, he started moving all of the Book of Mormons to the fiction section and is now banned from Barnes & Noble.
I'm not Mormon, but this is so interesting. Glad you found your own power of enlightenenment❤
i don’t know when i decided to make mormonism my new research obsession but your videos and media recs have been a fascinating rabbit hole to fall down lemme tell u
So weird how his "corrected" Bible has the same translation errors and conventions as the KJV.
He even gets the grammar wrong.
@@DoctorX101 At least he was less shitty about Witches (Ex 22:18)
@@drtaverner His entire family was trained in witchcraft by Lumen Walters, from England.
I grew up LDSand after digging into some archeological research of the Americas I left on a search. Unfortunately it ended my marriage and got me ostracized from my family because I “lack faith”. One of the best decisions I’ve made.
Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God who worshipped Jesus Christ and translated the Book of Mormon from plates of brass preserved over time by the hand of God. The Book of Mormon is complimentary to the Bible and another witness of the same gospel of Jesus Christ...the only name whereby we can be saved.
After Joseph Smith was murdered in June of 1844, Brigham Young led many saints to SLC, Utah...while many others did not go (including Emma Smith, Joseph's only wife). Brigham Young was a false teacher and prophet who introduced several abominable practices into his denomination, including polygamy, men becoming Gods, God once being a man, blood atonement of men, a heavenly mother, and secret penal oath temple rituals. He corrupted the true History of the Church to pretend that those teachings came from Joseph Smith in order to gain support....and many today are still under that deception.
@@joesimpson9230 🤔🤔 Ok? Let’s say you’re right and Joseph Smith is a prophet. That would mean God made a mistake and isn’t omniscient or a liar because of the “great apostasy” his claims rest on. In Mathew 16:18 Christ tells Peter “… and on this rock, I will build my church and the gates of hadies shall never prevail”
@@hyperclearphoto6573 Christ's true church is not some denomination nor 501c3 organization, but is of all who repent and come to Him. Apostasy has occurred and I believe the great apostasy still to occur.
D&C 10:67-68
Behold, this is my doctrine: Whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church; whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me but is against me; therefore, he is not of my church.