This is GREAT! I spent many years in a Pentecostal church and they DO NOT want people thinking outside their box. Its almost intimidating for them to have a "secular" educated person show up in church. I also know a ton of Evangelicals and Baptists who are not educated and continue to be very closed minded to science and education EXCEPT if it benefits them, example: medical advancements.
Grew up Catholic. They are all about education. When I went to Protestant churches, they definitely did not want you to ask any questions. Im out of all church stuff, but still trust Jesus.
I just learned this about a good friend that went to a Jesuit high school! lol He doesn’t even *think* about religion anymore, he’s been done with it for so long.
Hey Timmy. Before my deconstruction, my wife and I were Evangelical Christians (hardcore). She was very educated with 2 master's degrees. One night I had an atheist over at the house. I wanted to debate him and win him over to Jesus. He brought up evolution and I told him that evolution is a belief without evidence..."it's a big lie!" To my surprise, my wife overheard our conversation and walked into the room saying, "I'm not trying to derail your argument, but evolution is backed by tons of evidence." I thought she was punking me and waited for her to start laughing. But right then and there she turned the TV on and played a TH-cam video called Evolution: What Darwin Never Knew. It showed mountains of evidence from every scientific area...genetics, embryology, etc. and my mind was blown! This was the beginning of my deconstruction. I was a fundamentalist and if god did not create man and woman as described in Genesis then everything else in the Bible could also be wrong. My wife somehow kept her fundamentalist faith while accepting evolution. I went on to be the hardcore atheist I am now.
You can love God. You can fully understand Science. Both. And not have to believe in man-made religious doctrine intended to tame and control the human condition. God created science - and it's beautiful. And serendipitously, just after I typed that line, my wireless keyboard rechargeable batteries went dead. Pop in a couple charged ones. Anyway - I serve at my church and really am about to consider exiting the service at the church for another one due to the leadership at my church - one pastor is a young-earther and no real desire to understand science and the other more interested in church growth, attending conferences, and putting up pictures on Facebook. Not Evangelical, I don't think, but it's leaning that way. Hard to do after 8 years and knowing I was drawn there for a reason to do the volunteer service that I am doing.
@@sammur1977 For the PhD guy... it is not complex to design micro-processors as they are made in many nations at high quantities and used every day in our lives. It is difficult for a McDonalds employee to make a micro-processor. But if you are in the field of computer engineering, you can build them. We had a chip fab-lab at my college in the late 1980s.
Apparently Catholics believe God guided evolution to lead to rise of humanity. I’ve never personally seen a Catholic say they unironically believe in YEC, but rather creationism that’s not a literal interpretation of Genesis. That’s fairly reasonable IMHO
When pastors' say that the bible is immaculate, they build a domino effect. ONE just one inconsistency and inaccuracy can start the downfall and break the dam. Also, can I ask, how do you make it work? like fundamentalist and atheist. I like someone from my church and I assume is a fundamentalist. We worked together in the children's ministry in another life (2-3 years ago)
My Christian family always dared to call evolutionists idiots. Meanwhile, many of the atheists they mocked were professionals, had PhDs, and had higher education, while my parents dropped out of college
Something extremely important about being "educated" - and this is something that is frequently lost on people - is that those who are actually "educated" will be the first ones to know and admit when they don't know something. Part of being intelligent is appreciating that you know what you DON'T know.
I've always admitted not knowing something and always asked many questions, so I can better understand things, some people find that annoying, but amongst my close associates I've always been known as a smart or intelligent person, but no that's not it, I always try to find answers to ideas or questions I know nothing of. Always trying to learn something new. I am 58 years old and still learning something new everyday.
This made me sad. I went to a private Christian school here in CA. MARANATHA! It was definitely a prep Christian college high school bc I NEVER felt smart. I got in bc my parents could afford it and I was in the Christian loop of churches and references that accepted me. But I felt stupid the whole time I was there. Even though I know NOW I had undiagnosed ADHD and neurodivergent. Wow a flaw wasn't a "sin" but a gift. I am a student of the world Tim. So are you now!! Thanks for sharing.
Hi Timmy! I spent my high school years in the parking lot with friends smoking pot and drinking beer. Never cracked a book. So at 18, I was very vulnerable having a typical pre-twenty existential crisis when I found god. I spent a decade in hard core pentecostal indoctrination, with 4 years at 2 bible "colleges." Unfortunately discovering I am gay caused a horrible train wreak to my life, marriage and decades of reconstruction. I left Christianity, but saved Jesus to include in an afterlife fantasy for myself. I don't think deeply about it, because I think if god is there, they are like nothing we have imagined. Lesson, don't overdo drugs in your teens, and get your education or you might end up an evangelical pentecostal! That's what I will tell my grandkids! Love your channel!
The Calvinists I used to belong to were a very smart bunch. I respected their commitment to learning, even if it did lead (some of) them to conclusions like: "aborted babies go to Hell because they never get to hear the Gospel". The mental gymnastics any believer can through to reconcile conflicting Biblical ideas can create a very intelligent and thoughtful monster.
John Calvin was a scary guy!!! People who continue to promote his teachings are scary without even knowing it!!! Imagine believing God already predetermined certain people are damned to Hell, and others have a chance at Heaven (if they don't blow it). Reading about religious leaders from the Reformation period, they were so harsh in condemning people to death, drowning the Anabaptists, burning people at the stake. Like Calvin made sure Michael Servetus died for arguing that the concept of the "Trinity" is not in the Bible. Guess what? The "Trinity" is not in the Bible. People who debated in favor of saying we have a "Triune God" won the debate and chased away or killed the losers who didn't accept their argument.
Wasn't Napoleon the one who said, "religion was made up to make sure the poor don't revolt against the rich."? Im sure those weren't the exact words used but still very similar along those lines
I truly believe this. I was raised Catholic and women/girls were not allowed to have a thought or idea outside the patriarchal way of thinking. It was very controlled. I never understood why my parents would get mad (Sci-Fi was and is my favorite movie genre) The fantasy and the science behind it, to think outside the box, was scary to them. When I left home at 18, I didn't go to college but I went out into this big, beautiful world. I listened to all the stories, looked at all the evidence and honestly, as the core of my being, there has to be something more. I know that is simplistic but that is my truth. I now hold a Masters degree, working towards my PHD. It has opened my mind and eyes tremendously. My sister and BIL are uber religious. My BIL can barely read (he is almost 55) and just regurgitates what he hears in the Church. My sister contradicts herself all the time, because she is a hypocrite in following the beliefs in her Bible, so make that make sense.
Love your channel, Timmy! Thank you so much for your videos as they're a great resource for those going through deconstruction. I went through my deconstruction process years ago. My college education was invaluable for helping me logic through the stuff I'd been taught and align with something closer to the truth.
Thank you Timmy! From one well read autodidactic to another- you have my undying loyalty to your channel. Plus you make me LMAO!😂 I needed that this morning.
I remember back in the 80s, I was still a young kid and a "science specialist" came to visit our church to explain to us christians how " Carbon-14 is a big lie". I grew up with this mindset. So, afterward, when I was able to go to college and even university (yes in science!), I used to shut my ears each time someone was talking about Earth's age, archaeology, or any other connected science. I am so ashamed today that I was able to graduate in veterinary medicine with this misconception of the world. 🤦♀️ And you know what? I still have some doubts about this aging process, and I have to talk to myself very hard to not go back to my old indoctrinated mindset. So yes, you can find educated Christians, but I guess we have to work hard on our mental gymnastics to keep our beliefs. By the way, I laughed so loud at the "old Earth creation"! 😂
As I was deconstructing (before I admitted to myself and anyone else that I no longer believed) I was having a discussion with a fundamentalist and was trying (being polite) to suggest that the creation story was allegorical rather than literal. But they said that if you don't believe in literal creation, then you can't believe in the rest of the Christian story. And I thought... Yeah! I guess I don't 🤷🏼♀️
As a recovering Mormon of 50+-years, I remember it being preached that "the glory of God is intelligence." You would think that once that intelligence is gained, then why in the hell would you need religion.
the irony of my situation is that I was born into a religious fundamentalist family. My grandfather was a pastor along with all his sons except my dad and one of my aunt was a bible woman. On my mom's side my great-grandmother brought protestantism to their small town and her husband would host pastor's and workers in their house. So I was in deep in Christianity: my routine was church, home, school(private Christian school) and planning to take a college course forscie in another province and I was afraid I might lose my faith so I attended one year in seminary. Our instructor said there will be a debate in evolution vs creation. I was determined to understand both sides but my programming made me heavily go against evolution so I did further research which led me to Matt Delahaunty of the atheist podcast and he decimated every argument I had as a believer. And I did further research -- my brain was doing a hard reset-- and realized the harm it caused me and other people and I was using religion because I was lonely. It's so nice to feel like someone cares for you especially when you feel unloved and unwanted . Anyways, I left for college and people there are a mixed bag and made me realize I wasn't a total piece of shit as the church said I was. Also Despite higher education people in my country are deeply religious I find it rare to find older people to be non-religious but my generation has been more open to it. And even our school, a university, has bible verses posted around the building. And its especially hard to break from the indoctrination because if you're poor your priority is food and having a big sky daddy in the sky feels like a cheat code but it hardly ever is. It's a coping mechanism our country has developed -- that and laughter.
Science n thought n religious faith can go together. Like look at the beauty n organization of creation. Like hiking by a lakeside. Viewing nature n cycles. The immense heavens above. The Lord's hand is source of this
Tim, you can't keep making that face around 27:55, and expect me to take you seriously.😂😂😂 Pause the video, tap the time stamp and see your facial expression!!😂😂 I was cracking up!!!
Well the evangelical church encourages blind faith, and discourages independent critical thinking. IMO, that dynamic alone requires oneself to "dumb down" in order to please the church and be a "good Christian".
My dad was a Lutheran pastor who had a bachelor's of science degree and a master's degree in divinity, and he had no idea what a logical fallacy was. Because of that, he would regularly fall for medical scams, late night infomercial scams, and other garbage because they used many of the same fallacious arguments that he used in his sermons. The argument from authority, the ad populum fallacy, and mostly, the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. I used "X" and I got better, therefore "X" works. Just like I prayed for "Y" and "Y" happened, therefore God answered my prayer. I tried explaining to him why these arguments were flawed, but he just couldn't, or perhaps wouldn't, get it.
It's all relative. Someone who is 'educated' in one way perceives someone as 'uneducated' in another. An 'educated' person is no more a victim to their ideologies than an 'uneducated' one. If anything, the molasses of certainty/self-deception comes thicker with a college degree.
I agree, fundamentalism creates a fixed attitude and belief becomes calcified. No new information is allowed in if it doesn’t comport with already held belief. I know intelligent educated people who still believe but are open to science. They usually aren’t fundamentalist
This doesn’t say much. Neil himself believes men can be women. Higher education doesn’t always correlate with intelligence. Education can also be used to influence the massess
I was probably 4 or 5 and asked whether people that didn’t know about Jesus or God would go to hell. I was told yes. That and the fact that heaven sounds boring (If you never have bad days, how would you know it’s a good day) made me decide I don’t believe in God. I also learned how to read at the age of 3.5 and, by the time I was 6 or seven was reading Lord of the Rings.
Neil also said that until we know why those with advanced science degrees still believe in a deity, we should not be careful about the assumptions made about non degreed religious people.
Ah, well cuss my ignorant heart. Yep, I was raised to believe in creationism and a young earth and not believe in evolution or the sciences. Now I am trying to catch up on what education I missed because of my ignorance. "The idea is that bliss can quickly turn sour if things are left to fester. Some say that the alternative to ignorance is growing up, which can involve both loss and gain. While grown-up knowledge can bring misery, it can also lead to seeing joys that were previously unseen."
Also this "control" of ones thoughts n being not coming from the Supreme being who gives us varied gifts. Thank heavens for pope francis. A great witness
Interesting idea, Timmy. I wonder if it's a specific type of person or personality type that is more likely to deconstruct. Those that are more logical, sceptical in general, analytically minded, deep thinkers etc. Happy Christmas Eve to you and Jessica ❤️
Hey Timmy. I think that you should get Aron Ra on your channel. I think that you and him would have a great conversation. You could ask Aron Ra many science questions.
You spoke my mind. I was just thinking the same thing. Now that would be a highly interesting conversation, just as long as Aron let's him get a word in edgeways if you know what I mean? 😂 Come on Timmy, you've got to make this happen! 🤞
One of my favorite scenarios to pose to Christians, especially those who cherry pick scriptures is to imagine a book series that they are acquainted with. Now imagine picking one of those books flipping to a random chapter and page and reading a sentence off of it. Now imagine picking another one of the books in the series and doing the same thing. Now see if you can figure out a way to make those relate to each other without telling the entire story. Because that’s essentially what they do with charity picking scriptures in the Bible, which they claim that it is 66 individual books that are ultimately all written by the same author. Yet if you can’t take one sentence from one book and one sentence from another book of someone that you know for certain wrote all of those books, how is that any different than what you’re doing with the Bible?
I am not debating you, Timmy, because I don't know what I believe anymore. But the first thing that came to my mind when you said this was that God says to come to Him like children or with the mind of children.(paraphrasing). So maybe we are not supposed to think it all out intellectually.???
.....i don't know that it's the education. i think the educated have escaped the christian echo chamber. my mother repeated stated that, "college ruined me" (actually, it saved me). at college, i met 50,000 other kids from different backgrounds, upbringings and philosophies and ultimately came face to face with the absurdity of my upbringing. my indoctrinated mother and i never reached common ground.
Hey I’m a fan and on your side. Constructive criticism though was hoping there might be a discussion of the social status and class/caste implications which will could underlie this issue and Nietzsche’s “slave” mentality. People are poor and uneducated in a society that wants to oppress them, they cannot get good jobs, suffer economically, have no recourse, and the only hope is to believe that they will be rewarded in heaven and their oppressors will be punished in hell. I’ve Just recently been looking at ecclesiastes and rereading God or woman as Wisdom because these could be analogous in the Greek. It says no one knows if there is a heaven or hell so eat drink and be merry and enjoy your work because this is all we know. Wouldn’t it be nice to take that thought and be able to justify to any Christian to prioritize this existence. Love and accept everyone. Feed, clothe, house all the poor of the world. Do not let the powers that be oppress the poor and uneducated. And the over educated in theology are also making an idol of their god and their learning, teaching, and preaching is for their own Vanity, vanity, vanity!! And the power and other perks that come with being at the top of religion
Problem with the uneducated, is that when they are confronted they give such stupid responses. I worked with a teenager who is brought up homeschooled and fundamentalist. We naturally talked about religion. I asked him my go to question if he believed that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, of which he responded a resounding "yes". I then asked him why if Jonah himself is supposedly swallowed by this "whale", he is completely unaware of this event. I then asked him if this was a natural occurrence since a lot of Jews used the same prayer. (If one studies the old testament, you quickly realize that Jonah was never ever swallowed by an actual see mammal). Funny how he could not answer a very simple question properly.
Love you Timmy. You always bring a smile to my face in the middle of my deconstruction. Thank you. I was reading a book by a creationist called Paul Garner, the book is called the New Creationism. The book is good BUT in my opinion all it does is offer a possible alternative to evolution. But in reading this it lead me to doubt creationism. This book opened my mind to question the bible story of creation, surprisingly because the author cannot say for sure that the earth was created in the way the bible says. What Paul seems to do is to open a way that the Bible narrative can exist but can also be questioned 🤯🤔
I will give you something to do a brief research or check out. Paul teaches a very different message than Jesus teaches. Research (Paul vs Jesus). Paul says he follows Jesus, in 1-Timothy 6:3 . Jesus teaches that salvation is by works of keeping commandments (Matthew 19:16-17). Paul teaches salvation without works Galatians 2:16 , and 1-Corinthians 15:1-4 . Since Paul says he follows Jesus, but preaches a different message, Paul is a Liar. Whether Jesus is correct or not, since 99% of people follow Paul's false gospel, they do not have any salvation, by following a liar. The reason 99% of people follow Paul is because their parents followed Paul as did their parents parents, going back to 300ad when Rome started killing everyone who followed Jesus and the Jewish teachings. Research (JesusWordsOnly) and several other similar sites.
Me personally, I don't think it has much to do with education as it does where you are born and what you're learning circle is because you can be educated or even uneducated and not believe in the Bible or evolution both together or, I think it has to do with what learning surroundings you put yourself in and what you want to learn more so.
The intelligence he uses in his profession is exactly the thought process he suspends for his religious beliefs. He converted after he looked at a waterfall and felt emotional…which is literally the opposite of the scientific method.
@timmygibsonkc Right. Statistics are about probabilities within populations. They can't predict with certainty the outcome for every individual. So many people don't understand this. They use this misunderstanding to falsely argue that statistics are useless. And then these same people will use personal anecdotal experiences as evidence.
Also may I add if it's a "sin" to dance and to enjoy a bit of alchohol,why would Jesus turn jugs of water into wine!!!!, he wants us not to just suffer for sake of suffering but to enjoy the bounty too
Esoteric knowledge/THE BIBLE was not for the common man. Exoteric information was given so those peoples that couldn't read or write may understand such as all the kindergarten stories in the bible. And most those stories, poetry, songs, philosophy, parables had and have deeper meanings.😊❤
I believe, but in just what, I'm not sure. I know there is a universal power and perhaps Jesus is our conduit to that power. I am full of questions, so not the teacher's pet of organized religion.
Also know one really knows who is in heaven or hell only the Lord knows. We all got varied backgrounds n circumstances n lights n conscience. The literal interpretation not for many people as no one can judge. Read the new catechism not the old antiquated one of the catholic church to be informed. Also we have different ways of understanding. We have the logical n rational objective side of the brain,and the irrational emotional artistic And feeling side of brain. The lord can work through both.
I think he’s going from one extreme to another…most folks are middle ground have a belief but still go about their daily lives without being weird about it
"God said it, so that ends it".. too funny. Its all fine and dandy when the verses are encouraging, but then there's some you come across and go "wait ..what now?". When common sense goes out the window to justify a verse thats where i draw the line. I wouldn't say it's fiction, more like folklore.. the people that wrote it actually believed it, whereas with Harry Potter (our family rewatches every winter break btw) was created for entertainment.. and i dont think anyone is reading scriptures for entertainment ✌️
With all due respect, the way you present your arguments actually fits the title of your video … except that it applies the other way around. Comparing the history of religion “all the way back to the Sumerians” to the Harry Potter books is hilarious. That shows the depth, or lack thereof, of your understanding of how different religions functioned through the millennia. I mean no disrespect in my post. You come across as a person who is open to honest discussion on the subject. Hope you have a great day.
I think you need to be more precise in your language. It's not the "uneducated" who're more likely to believe in God (at least according to Pew). Rather, it's the "less educated". Calling those without a college degree "uneducated" is a pretty damning indictment of public education 😄 It's also in my view snobby and elitist. I say all this as a "more educated" atheist.
@@timmygibsonkc Apologies for using harsh words earlier. I have been following your channel for a while, and as a Muslim, I agree with many of the reasons you left Christianity. I’m not sure if you remember, but I also commented on your video titled "Why Former Evangelical Christian Pastor Walks Away From Christianity - Because it’s All a Lie!" where I invited you to explore Islam. However, that’s not the topic today. I apologize if I came across as disrespectful by calling you uneducated. In truth, you are far more insightful than many Christian Ph.D. holders who continue to believe in the myths of the "Son of God," crucifixion, and resurrection. NB: Even Muslims do not believe in the above concepts.
The world has tried to turn the Bible into fairy tales and therefore a book for the simple minded. In reality the truths in scripture are profound and world changing.
Repent of your sins. Believe in Jesus for salvation and be born again, becoming a new person in this life. Luke 24:47, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV.......
Science n thought n religious faith can go together. Like look at the beauty n organization of creation. Like hiking by a lakeside. Viewing nature n cycles. The immense heavens above. The Lord's hand is source of this
This is GREAT! I spent many years in a Pentecostal church and they DO NOT want people thinking outside their box. Its almost intimidating for them to have a "secular" educated person show up in church. I also know a ton of Evangelicals and Baptists who are not educated and continue to be very closed minded to science and education EXCEPT if it benefits them, example: medical advancements.
Grew up Catholic. They are all about education. When I went to Protestant churches, they definitely did not want you to ask any questions. Im out of all church stuff, but still trust Jesus.
So true!
@@deirdremorris9234 You can embrace Jesus 🙏 and be intellectually engaged 💡 at the same time.
@@debraannmartinez7157 Agree
It was an open joke at the Jesuit high school I attended that you will either be a strong Catholic or a strong Atheist by the time you graduate.
Fascinating
I just learned this about a good friend that went to a Jesuit high school! lol He doesn’t even *think* about religion anymore, he’s been done with it for so long.
Hey Timmy. Before my deconstruction, my wife and I were Evangelical Christians (hardcore). She was very educated with 2 master's degrees. One night I had an atheist over at the house. I wanted to debate him and win him over to Jesus. He brought up evolution and I told him that evolution is a belief without evidence..."it's a big lie!" To my surprise, my wife overheard our conversation and walked into the room saying, "I'm not trying to derail your argument, but evolution is backed by tons of evidence." I thought she was punking me and waited for her to start laughing. But right then and there she turned the TV on and played a TH-cam video called Evolution: What Darwin Never Knew. It showed mountains of evidence from every scientific area...genetics, embryology, etc. and my mind was blown! This was the beginning of my deconstruction. I was a fundamentalist and if god did not create man and woman as described in Genesis then everything else in the Bible could also be wrong. My wife somehow kept her fundamentalist faith while accepting evolution. I went on to be the hardcore atheist I am now.
You can love God. You can fully understand Science. Both. And not have to believe in man-made religious doctrine intended to tame and control the human condition. God created science - and it's beautiful. And serendipitously, just after I typed that line, my wireless keyboard rechargeable batteries went dead. Pop in a couple charged ones. Anyway - I serve at my church and really am about to consider exiting the service at the church for another one due to the leadership at my church - one pastor is a young-earther and no real desire to understand science and the other more interested in church growth, attending conferences, and putting up pictures on Facebook. Not Evangelical, I don't think, but it's leaning that way. Hard to do after 8 years and knowing I was drawn there for a reason to do the volunteer service that I am doing.
Love this story! Thank you for sharing that! Happy Holidays!
@@sammur1977 For the PhD guy... it is not complex to design micro-processors as they are made in many nations at high quantities and used every day in our lives. It is difficult for a McDonalds employee to make a micro-processor. But if you are in the field of computer engineering, you can build them. We had a chip fab-lab at my college in the late 1980s.
Apparently Catholics believe God guided evolution to lead to rise of humanity. I’ve never personally seen a Catholic say they unironically believe in YEC, but rather creationism that’s not a literal interpretation of Genesis. That’s fairly reasonable IMHO
When pastors' say that the bible is immaculate, they build a domino effect. ONE just one inconsistency and inaccuracy can start the downfall and break the dam.
Also, can I ask, how do you make it work? like fundamentalist and atheist. I like someone from my church and I assume is a fundamentalist. We worked together in the children's ministry in another life (2-3 years ago)
My Christian family always dared to call evolutionists idiots. Meanwhile, many of the atheists they mocked were professionals, had PhDs, and had higher education, while my parents dropped out of college
Exactly
My sons in-laws hold PhD’s and still believe in God. Sometimes you just can’t educate them out of it….
Something extremely important about being "educated" - and this is something that is frequently lost on people - is that those who are actually "educated" will be the first ones to know and admit when they don't know something.
Part of being intelligent is appreciating that you know what you DON'T know.
That’s why intelligent persons actually ASK questions to get better understanding and wisdom
@@jackstiv8395 good students ask great questions and good teachers ask better ones✌️
I've always admitted not knowing something and always asked many questions, so I can better understand things, some people find that annoying, but amongst my close associates I've always been known as a smart or intelligent person, but no that's not it, I always try to find answers to ideas or questions I know nothing of.
Always trying to learn something new. I am 58 years old and still learning something new everyday.
This made me sad. I went to a private Christian school here in CA. MARANATHA! It was definitely a prep Christian college high school bc I NEVER felt smart. I got in bc my parents could afford it and I was in the Christian loop of churches and references that accepted me. But I felt stupid the whole time I was there. Even though I know NOW I had undiagnosed ADHD and neurodivergent. Wow a flaw wasn't a "sin" but a gift.
I am a student of the world Tim. So are you now!! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much! I love learning! Definitely a forever student!
Hi Timmy! I spent my high school years in the parking lot with friends smoking pot and drinking beer. Never cracked a book. So at 18, I was very vulnerable having a typical pre-twenty existential crisis when I found god. I spent a decade in hard core pentecostal indoctrination, with 4 years at 2 bible "colleges." Unfortunately discovering I am gay caused a horrible train wreak to my life, marriage and decades of reconstruction. I left Christianity, but saved Jesus to include in an afterlife fantasy for myself. I don't think deeply about it, because I think if god is there, they are like nothing we have imagined. Lesson, don't overdo drugs in your teens, and get your education or you might end up an evangelical pentecostal! That's what I will tell my grandkids! Love your channel!
Ha ha ha … so true! This made me giggle… “be educated to you don’t turn into an evangelical Christian!” 😂
The Calvinists I used to belong to were a very smart bunch. I respected their commitment to learning, even if it did lead (some of) them to conclusions like: "aborted babies go to Hell because they never get to hear the Gospel". The mental gymnastics any believer can through to reconcile conflicting Biblical ideas can create a very intelligent and thoughtful monster.
John Calvin was a scary guy!!! People who continue to promote his teachings are scary without even knowing it!!! Imagine believing God already predetermined certain people are damned to Hell, and others have a chance at Heaven (if they don't blow it). Reading about religious leaders from the Reformation period, they were so harsh in condemning people to death, drowning the Anabaptists, burning people at the stake. Like Calvin made sure Michael Servetus died for arguing that the concept of the "Trinity" is not in the Bible. Guess what? The "Trinity" is not in the Bible. People who debated in favor of saying we have a "Triune God" won the debate and chased away or killed the losers who didn't accept their argument.
This is also very true!
The church had a saying ignorance is the mother of devotion
WOW! Love that!
I’m agnostic too. But I definitely think the Bible is mostly mythology and not history
Scholarship (education) has begun to prove that more and more. Not much history at all.
Yes!
Wasn't Napoleon the one who said, "religion was made up to make sure the poor don't revolt against the rich."? Im sure those weren't the exact words used but still very similar along those lines
I watch a ton of stand-up comedy, and you are funnier than most... love your delivery, and your logical approach. ❤
I truly believe this. I was raised Catholic and women/girls were not allowed to have a thought or idea outside the patriarchal way of thinking. It was very controlled. I never understood why my parents would get mad (Sci-Fi was and is my favorite movie genre) The fantasy and the science behind it, to think outside the box, was scary to them. When I left home at 18, I didn't go to college but I went out into this big, beautiful world. I listened to all the stories, looked at all the evidence and honestly, as the core of my being, there has to be something more. I know that is simplistic but that is my truth. I now hold a Masters degree, working towards my PHD. It has opened my mind and eyes tremendously. My sister and BIL are uber religious. My BIL can barely read (he is almost 55) and just regurgitates what he hears in the Church. My sister contradicts herself all the time, because she is a hypocrite in following the beliefs in her Bible, so make that make sense.
I hear ya!
Love your channel, Timmy! Thank you so much for your videos as they're a great resource for those going through deconstruction. I went through my deconstruction process years ago. My college education was invaluable for helping me logic through the stuff I'd been taught and align with something closer to the truth.
@@susieunderwood4645 thank you!
Thank you Timmy!
From one well read autodidactic to another- you have my undying loyalty to your channel.
Plus you make me LMAO!😂
I needed that this morning.
Thank you Gina! That means a lot to me!
I remember back in the 80s, I was still a young kid and a "science specialist" came to visit our church to explain to us christians how " Carbon-14 is a big lie". I grew up with this mindset. So, afterward, when I was able to go to college and even university (yes in science!), I used to shut my ears each time someone was talking about Earth's age, archaeology, or any other connected science.
I am so ashamed today that I was able to graduate in veterinary medicine with this misconception of the world. 🤦♀️
And you know what? I still have some doubts about this aging process, and I have to talk to myself very hard to not go back to my old indoctrinated mindset.
So yes, you can find educated Christians, but I guess we have to work hard on our mental gymnastics to keep our beliefs. By the way, I laughed so loud at the "old Earth creation"! 😂
Thank you Hazel! I never quite know what I will say when I press record! 😂
@timmygibsonkc 😅 Well, I love it! 😊
I need comebacks for when people say, "It's in the bible because god said it!"
Please! Yeeees!
😂
I can’t think of any lol it seems like a dead end. Meant to halt logical progression of the argument or debate.
@@joevaghn457 I know...
Why? Because an educated person will see the flaws more easily.
Indeed!
Here we go! Well done Timmy!
Thank you!
As I was deconstructing (before I admitted to myself and anyone else that I no longer believed) I was having a discussion with a fundamentalist and was trying (being polite) to suggest that the creation story was allegorical rather than literal. But they said that if you don't believe in literal creation, then you can't believe in the rest of the Christian story. And I thought... Yeah! I guess I don't 🤷🏼♀️
That’s exactly what I used to say! 😅
"Stupid is what stupid does"
- Forrest Gump
As a recovering Mormon of 50+-years, I remember it being preached that "the glory of God is intelligence." You would think that once that intelligence is gained, then why in the hell would you need religion.
So true!
Santa and the tooth fairy are more believable than Joe Smith …🤣
@@pattykake7195 Who is Joe Smith?
@ 😂
the irony of my situation is that I was born into a religious fundamentalist family. My grandfather was a pastor along with all his sons except my dad and one of my aunt was a bible woman. On my mom's side my great-grandmother brought protestantism to their small town and her husband would host pastor's and workers in their house. So I was in deep in Christianity: my routine was church, home, school(private Christian school) and planning to take a college course forscie in another province and I was afraid I might lose my faith so I attended one year in seminary. Our instructor said there will be a debate in evolution vs creation. I was determined to understand both sides but my programming made me heavily go against evolution so I did further research which led me to Matt Delahaunty of the atheist podcast and he decimated every argument I had as a believer. And I did further research -- my brain was doing a hard reset-- and realized the harm it caused me and other people and I was using religion because I was lonely. It's so nice to feel like someone cares for you especially when you feel unloved and unwanted . Anyways, I left for college and people there are a mixed bag and made me realize I wasn't a total piece of shit as the church said I was. Also Despite higher education people in my country are deeply religious I find it rare to find older people to be non-religious but my generation has been more open to it. And even our school, a university, has bible verses posted around the building. And its especially hard to break from the indoctrination because if you're poor your priority is food and having a big sky daddy in the sky feels like a cheat code but it hardly ever is. It's a coping mechanism our country has developed -- that and laughter.
Science n thought n religious faith can go together. Like look at the beauty n organization of creation. Like hiking by a lakeside. Viewing nature n cycles. The immense heavens above. The Lord's hand is source of this
Tim, you can't keep making that face around 27:55, and expect me to take you seriously.😂😂😂
Pause the video, tap the time stamp and see your facial expression!!😂😂 I was cracking up!!!
😂😂😂😂😂
Well the evangelical church encourages blind faith, and discourages independent critical thinking. IMO, that dynamic alone requires oneself to "dumb down" in order to please the church and be a "good Christian".
Precisely! Check your brain at the door (the church) like Timmy has said before 😂
So true!
My dad was a Lutheran pastor who had a bachelor's of science degree and a master's degree in divinity, and he had no idea what a logical fallacy was. Because of that, he would regularly fall for medical scams, late night infomercial scams, and other garbage because they used many of the same fallacious arguments that he used in his sermons. The argument from authority, the ad populum fallacy, and mostly, the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. I used "X" and I got better, therefore "X" works. Just like I prayed for "Y" and "Y" happened, therefore God answered my prayer. I tried explaining to him why these arguments were flawed, but he just couldn't, or perhaps wouldn't, get it.
It's all relative. Someone who is 'educated' in one way perceives someone as 'uneducated' in another. An 'educated' person is no more a victim to their ideologies than an 'uneducated' one. If anything, the molasses of certainty/self-deception comes thicker with a college degree.
Fundamentalists. Most certainly I guess there is almost emotional addiction wanting to see loved ones in some idealic after life!
I agree, fundamentalism creates a fixed attitude and belief becomes calcified. No new information is allowed in if it doesn’t comport with already held belief.
I know intelligent educated people who still believe but are open to science. They usually aren’t fundamentalist
Probably true!
Harry Potter may be found in telephone book and tax records
This doesn’t say much. Neil himself believes men can be women. Higher education doesn’t always correlate with intelligence. Education can also be used to influence the massess
Timmy, or anyone.... can you share the video that was referenced by Timmy that covered the timeline/evolution of religion?
I’ll find and post here
@timmygibsonkc thanks Timmy
“…maybe god made the earth old…” Seems plausible, why not add it to the canon, with all the other “tall tales.”
I was probably 4 or 5 and asked whether people that didn’t know about Jesus or God would go to hell. I was told yes. That and the fact that heaven sounds boring (If you never have bad days, how would you know it’s a good day) made me decide I don’t believe in God. I also learned how to read at the age of 3.5 and, by the time I was 6 or seven was reading Lord of the Rings.
Love this!
Neil also said that until we know why those with advanced science degrees still believe in a deity, we should not be careful about the assumptions made about non degreed religious people.
Ah, well cuss my ignorant heart. Yep, I was raised to believe in creationism and a young earth and not believe in evolution or the sciences. Now I am trying to catch up on what education I missed because of my ignorance.
"The idea is that bliss can quickly turn sour if things are left to fester. Some say that the alternative to ignorance is growing up, which can involve both loss and gain. While grown-up knowledge can bring misery, it can also lead to seeing joys that were previously unseen."
Also this "control" of ones thoughts n being not coming from the Supreme being who gives us varied gifts. Thank heavens for pope francis. A great witness
Interesting idea, Timmy. I wonder if it's a specific type of person or personality type that is more likely to deconstruct. Those that are more logical, sceptical in general, analytically minded, deep thinkers etc. Happy Christmas Eve to you and Jessica ❤️
Hey Timmy. I think that you should get Aron Ra on your channel. I think that you and him would have a great conversation. You could ask Aron Ra many science questions.
Agreed
You spoke my mind. I was just thinking the same thing. Now that would be a highly interesting conversation, just as long as Aron let's him get a word in edgeways if you know what I mean? 😂 Come on Timmy, you've got to make this happen! 🤞
One of my favorite scenarios to pose to Christians, especially those who cherry pick scriptures is to imagine a book series that they are acquainted with. Now imagine picking one of those books flipping to a random chapter and page and reading a sentence off of it. Now imagine picking another one of the books in the series and doing the same thing. Now see if you can figure out a way to make those relate to each other without telling the entire story. Because that’s essentially what they do with charity picking scriptures in the Bible, which they claim that it is 66 individual books that are ultimately all written by the same author. Yet if you can’t take one sentence from one book and one sentence from another book of someone that you know for certain wrote all of those books, how is that any different than what you’re doing with the Bible?
3000 years they’ll probably find the scene props and wardrobe, and call it evidence 😂😂😂
Truly appreciate your videos! They crack me up! #formerchristian
Link to the video you watched that traces back to the origin of religion?
I’ll find it! It was so good!
@@timmygibsonkcplease
Yes pretty pretty please. I searched TH-cam and too many options came up.
I am not debating you, Timmy, because I don't know what I believe anymore. But the first thing that came to my mind when you said this was that God says to come to Him like children or with the mind of children.(paraphrasing). So maybe we are not supposed to think it all out intellectually.???
Idk my in laws are both attorneys and they are hard core. 😮😮😮😮 when I bring up a fact anger ensues! 😅😅😅😅
I get it! Clearly not all Christians are dumb my any means! I have a couple educated friends who have nutty Bible beliefs too!
.....i don't know that it's the education. i think the educated have escaped the christian echo chamber. my mother repeated stated that, "college ruined me" (actually, it saved me). at college, i met 50,000 other kids from different backgrounds, upbringings and philosophies and ultimately came face to face with the absurdity of my upbringing. my indoctrinated mother and i never reached common ground.
Hey I’m a fan and on your side. Constructive criticism though was hoping there might be a discussion of the social status and class/caste implications which will could underlie this issue and Nietzsche’s “slave” mentality. People are poor and uneducated in a society that wants to oppress them, they cannot get good jobs, suffer economically, have no recourse, and the only hope is to believe that they will be rewarded in heaven and their oppressors will be punished in hell. I’ve Just recently been looking at ecclesiastes and rereading God or woman as Wisdom because these could be analogous in the Greek. It says no one knows if there is a heaven or hell so eat drink and be merry and enjoy your work because this is all we know. Wouldn’t it be nice to take that thought and be able to justify to any Christian to prioritize this existence. Love and accept everyone. Feed, clothe, house all the poor of the world. Do not let the powers that be oppress the poor and uneducated. And the over educated in theology are also making an idol of their god and their learning, teaching, and preaching is for their own Vanity, vanity, vanity!! And the power and other perks that come with being at the top of religion
Problem with the uneducated, is that when they are confronted they give such stupid responses. I worked with a teenager who is brought up homeschooled and fundamentalist. We naturally talked about religion. I asked him my go to question if he believed that Jonah was swallowed by a whale, of which he responded a resounding "yes". I then asked him why if Jonah himself is supposedly swallowed by this "whale", he is completely unaware of this event. I then asked him if this was a natural occurrence since a lot of Jews used the same prayer. (If one studies the old testament, you quickly realize that Jonah was never ever swallowed by an actual see mammal). Funny how he could not answer a very simple question properly.
Love you Timmy. You always bring a smile to my face in the middle of my deconstruction. Thank you. I was reading a book by a creationist called Paul Garner, the book is called the New Creationism. The book is good BUT in my opinion all it does is offer a possible alternative to evolution. But in reading this it lead me to doubt creationism. This book opened my mind to question the bible story of creation, surprisingly because the author cannot say for sure that the earth was created in the way the bible says. What Paul seems to do is to open a way that the Bible narrative can exist but can also be questioned 🤯🤔
@@booksie1 😊Thank you!
“in the beginning i did some shit” 😂❤
I will give you something to do a brief research or check out. Paul teaches a very different message than Jesus teaches. Research (Paul vs Jesus). Paul says he follows Jesus, in 1-Timothy 6:3 . Jesus teaches that salvation is by works of keeping commandments (Matthew 19:16-17). Paul teaches salvation without works Galatians 2:16 , and 1-Corinthians 15:1-4 . Since Paul says he follows Jesus, but preaches a different message, Paul is a Liar. Whether Jesus is correct or not, since 99% of people follow Paul's false gospel, they do not have any salvation, by following a liar. The reason 99% of people follow Paul is because their parents followed Paul as did their parents parents, going back to 300ad when Rome started killing everyone who followed Jesus and the Jewish teachings. Research (JesusWordsOnly) and several other similar sites.
I find that hard to accept! 😕
I understand!
Just having curiosity is good
True
Le gustaría conocer al Dios de la Biblia?
Gonna eat Xmas cookies and watch the comments. Hohoho.
Me personally, I don't think it has much to do with education as it does where you are born and what you're learning circle is because you can be educated or even uneducated and not believe in the Bible or evolution both together or, I think it has to do with what learning surroundings you put yourself in and what you want to learn more so.
I think there are other conduits, if that's how it works, as Buddah, Mohammad, Socrates, Odin, Aristotle, Thor, any superior entity. Why not?
The Bible says exactly that in 1 Corinthians... No surprise
That is a dangerous and arrogant assumption imo! I’m sure Francis Collins is pretty darn intelligent 😂
He’s a believer because he came across three waterfalls and was reminded of the trinity. Not a good reason to believe
I really think believers just WANT to believe. Humans are good at talking themselves in to all kinds of things if it FEELS good/right.
The intelligence he uses in his profession is exactly the thought process he suspends for his religious beliefs. He converted after he looked at a waterfall and felt emotional…which is literally the opposite of the scientific method.
There are always exceptions! I think David Koresh was super intelligent! 😅
@timmygibsonkc Right. Statistics are about probabilities within populations. They can't predict with certainty the outcome for every individual. So many people don't understand this. They use this misunderstanding to falsely argue that statistics are useless.
And then these same people will use personal anecdotal experiences as evidence.
Does he have actual stats?
Also may I add if it's a "sin" to dance and to enjoy a bit of alchohol,why would Jesus turn jugs of water into wine!!!!, he wants us not to just suffer for sake of suffering but to enjoy the bounty too
I think the question of the existence of a Bible type god is not relevant at all. I wonder what non bible believing people think of that?
Esoteric knowledge/THE BIBLE was not for the common man. Exoteric information was given so those peoples that couldn't read or write may understand such as all the kindergarten stories in the bible. And most those stories, poetry, songs, philosophy, parables had and have deeper meanings.😊❤
You can easily pass for 30. You look great 👍🏻
I believe, but in just what, I'm not sure. I know there is a universal power and perhaps Jesus is our conduit to that power. I am full of questions, so not the teacher's pet of organized religion.
I hate the saying. "I am enough with Jesus". Talk about an oxymoron. If you are not enough all on your own, than you are never enough.
I live down the rabbit 🐇 🐰 hole 🕳 in New Jersey 😊
i like watching fiction and reading non-fiction
Also know one really knows who is in heaven or hell only the Lord knows. We all got varied backgrounds n circumstances n lights n conscience. The literal interpretation not for many people as no one can judge. Read the new catechism not the old antiquated one of the catholic church to be informed. Also we have different ways of understanding. We have the logical n rational objective side of the brain,and the irrational emotional artistic
And feeling side of brain. The lord can work through both.
I think he’s going from one extreme to another…most folks are middle ground have a belief but still go about their daily lives without being weird about it
I can agree somewhat here… but for every normal Christian you find there’s a fundamental wing nut around the corner!
Uneducated towards the Bible. That is all. I was in that group at one point.
"God said it, so that ends it".. too funny. Its all fine and dandy when the verses are encouraging, but then there's some you come across and go "wait ..what now?". When common sense goes out the window to justify a verse thats where i draw the line. I wouldn't say it's fiction, more like folklore.. the people that wrote it actually believed it, whereas with Harry Potter (our family rewatches every winter break btw) was created for entertainment.. and i dont think anyone is reading scriptures for entertainment ✌️
With all due respect, the way you present your arguments actually fits the title of your video … except that it applies the other way around.
Comparing the history of religion “all the way back to the Sumerians” to the Harry Potter books is hilarious. That shows the depth, or lack thereof, of your understanding of how different religions functioned through the millennia.
I mean no disrespect in my post. You come across as a person who is open to honest discussion on the subject.
Hope you have a great day.
😂
@ 🤓
I believe you did not have a sip of your coffee because I saw it. Nobody has seen God.
I think you need to be more precise in your language. It's not the "uneducated" who're more likely to believe in God (at least according to Pew). Rather, it's the "less educated". Calling those without a college degree "uneducated" is a pretty damning indictment of public education 😄 It's also in my view snobby and elitist. I say all this as a "more educated" atheist.
Valid point...but I think we all got the point Timmy was trying to make. Did you?
True! I’m still learning!
@@SCP-SAM Of course I did. Just seemed a bit "brutish" and off-putting
@whizler I hear ya man. Guess the beauty is that he's just being unplanned
@@SCP-SAM You are spot on here. Some are easily offended....
BY reading some books now you consider yourself educated? BS !!
He's (jesus) not the Messiah he's a very naughty boy.
😂
Hello, you apparently didn’t watch the video, I said I am uneducated! I’m an exception to the rule!
@@timmygibsonkc Apologies for using harsh words earlier. I have been following your channel for a while, and as a Muslim, I agree with many of the reasons you left Christianity. I’m not sure if you remember, but I also commented on your video titled "Why Former Evangelical Christian Pastor Walks Away From Christianity - Because it’s All a Lie!" where I invited you to explore Islam.
However, that’s not the topic today. I apologize if I came across as disrespectful by calling you uneducated. In truth, you are far more insightful than many Christian Ph.D. holders who continue to believe in the myths of the "Son of God," crucifixion, and resurrection.
NB: Even Muslims do not believe in the above concepts.
@@MohaKaarshe your god is not real. Deal with it.
The world has tried to turn the Bible into fairy tales and therefore a book for the simple minded. In reality the truths in scripture are profound and world changing.
And existed before Christianity
@@ldygzlle1291 Words from man did come before words from God.
This is not true at all.
@@pierrelabounty9917 oh it’s not only true, it’s fact! Provable, measurable and repeatable!
Repent of your sins. Believe in Jesus for salvation and be born again, becoming a new person in this life. Luke 24:47, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV.......
😂
Seriously?
@ I hope you’ve repented and have asked Buddha to forgive you for picking the wrong religious myth to follow!
th-cam.com/video/7APnAkktdvs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=v4v69B39kf_OfdaD This is really good
Yes, Timmy, in god's time ⏲️ Trust and obey Timmy! You know there is no other way!😊 ✌🏻🥸
Just listened to you on Cults to Consciousness 🥰🫶 ! Super ! You have the best laugh 😬
Just having curiosity is good
Science n thought n religious faith can go together. Like look at the beauty n organization of creation. Like hiking by a lakeside. Viewing nature n cycles. The immense heavens above. The Lord's hand is source of this