How to 3D Print bores without supports (Fusion 360 Masterclass)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
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This sequential bridging technique was invented by Nophead afaik, described in his blog post "Buried nuts and hanging holes", from 2014. His blog is a gold mine.
Can you share the Link?
hydraraptor.blogspot.com/2014/03/buried-nuts-and-hanging-holes.html?m=1
@@emanggitulah4319 You can't share links via the comments. You'll need to google using the words that @Lenbok provided above. It's everything you need for the proper search.
@@emanggitulah4319 I searched "nophead blog" and went to the site titled HydraRaptor. It gave me a mobile version which was impossible to navigate so at the bottom I clicked web version. That gave me access to the side menu where I clicked 2014, then march to find the article.
Kinda hard to really claim who invented anything (first) since the only data to go off for verification is the earliest example of documentation or production. I could figure out a concept and sit on it for ten years to have someone else come out and say to the world, I just invented this! Did I invent it? I thought of it first I just didn’t make it. So is it the problem solved by a persons creation that’s the invention or simply the manufacture and subsequent public exposure of the solution that’s being titled? We know from history that people have gotten credit for “inventing” things that were other people’s creations, they just rushed to build it first. At the end of the day I give an amount of admiration to people for their creativity but I give “invented” titles a grain of salt.
I think the sequential bridging should be implemented in slicers. It's a matter of 3D printing using FDM, not 3D modelling. The same goes for elephant's foot effect, I refuse to adjust my models with these details. Also, I think this should be doable in slicer in a single layer by first bridging one direction and then the other in the same layer.
Cura "initial layer horizontal expansion" for elephants foot. Not sure on other slicers Cura has every setting I'll ever need and then some so I've never used any others. Seems like the rest just copy Cura anyway with things like tree supports and arachne lol
I would suspect that printers with advanced bed leveling do deal with elephants foot, but printers that you level yourself are a bit too variable to predict, I would think. I don't get elephants foot on my on my prints (no auto bed level) so if there was any auto-adjustment, the changes might bevel the bottom of the print rather than keep it straight.
I see where you're coming from. But, design for any manufacturing process includes some details of the process, and not just an abstract ideal model. "Design for manufacturing" is a field for a reason. I do try to avoid overly depending on 3d printing in my models, but I don't go overboard.
If it is included as a slicer option, the modeler needs to know how the slicer implements the sequential bridging in order to account for the (in this case) changes in hole depth. That is, it will affect the accuracy of the hole depth and therefore the fit up of your parts.
@@michaelj3971 I guess that if this sequential bridging is ever implemented, this should be more like knowledge or tips you should apply for models that are supposed to be printed. I mean, "Add a 1mm more thickness to prevent the slicer to modify your accuracy if sequential-bridging". Personally I use a lot the trick of "water drop" like holes for holes that are printed vertically.
The idea is fairly great. However I am not agree on how it is implemented on this video. I mean, the part should be nothing but the part. Once the design is done, another design should start from the previous one and that's when all the 3D design tips should be applied (Water-drop holes, sequential-bridgin, elephants foot chamfer, horizontal expansion... whatever) . I think that this allows you to design a part without thinking at all on the way of how it would be manufactured. If this tips are eventually included on the slicers, you can always send the "untouched" part instead of the FDM adapted one.
Been forcing myself to learn fusion, but some of the tricks you shared in the last third of the video blew my mind. Fusion has too many features that nobody talks about. Thank you so much for sharing. I'll be exhibiting at Opensauce, Excited to see you there Angus!
Awesome! What are you exhibiting?
You can do this exact technique in all CADs. It's nothing specific to Fusion
I’ve also recently started “learning” Fusion360. Learning is in quotation’s because I watched 1 video on how to make a Lego brick, and then just went from there experimenting and making my own things. Only looking up how to do something that my mind says “shouldn’t this be possible” or “what if I tried this”. I literally am only learning it this way because my ADD gets me distracted.
I’ve definitely enjoyed it but I know I’ve just barely scratched the surface, just like you said. It’s amazing the things you can do with it.
I'm a bit late on this, but here's an interesting suggestion that I've done a time or two for inverted details: Print the details separately, then insert them into the larger print the same as you'd insert a captive nut or bearing.
For instance: I have a custom prusa print head that I designed myself, on prusa print heads they use the position of a steel ball to do filament out detection. I couldn't copy their ball holding system exactly so I made a captive channel. The back side printed fine, but the front side not only couldn't be printed due to overhanging but would have the ball in the way if I tried. So I printed the front side of the channel as it's own tiny print, then inserted the ball and the front side as a plug and just printed over it. Works like a charm.
In this case, you could print what looks like a 2-4 layer thick washer, and insert it into a pocket in the main print so that it becomes the back of the hole.
It'll be like those brass heated inserts or those screw threads for wood furniture. That's an interesting idea, I think I'll keep that in my pocket now thanks.
Oh wow you taught me a new trick at 9 mins in. I'm new with 360 and cad in general, but I've been brute forcing the same style of using one sketch for complex parts by extruding new bodies from the same sketch multiple times, then moving them the appropriate distances, and finally combining them. I had no idea you could start the extrude from an object face!
Glad to see a popular youtuber post on this. I've been adding 'sequential bridging' to my models for years now. Works great!
Thanks for this follow up video! I hadn't really understood sequential bridging from your last video, but this explanation makes it really clear how to do it! I'll try it out next time I need a curved overhang like this.
The modeling from one sketch was brilliant. I would have been creating new sketches and projecting the first sketch over and over again.
How you described your workflow is similar to how my Solidworks professor told us to do it. I forget if that program would even allow you to do it this way lol
Tripped me up so many times because she'd come around to my computer and make me change it right away lol. So glad I'm done with that xD
@@miranda.cooper I think it's better to have multiple sketches (unless it's a very simple model), that way you can modify it more easily in the future when you have to modify the initial sketch. At least that's what I've been taught by other fusion360 tutorial videos.,
It is generally better to work from multiple smaller sketches, but this geometry is simple enough that one sketch will be easy to understand in the future when you need to make changes.
Ah! I get it! I had to go into Fusion 360 and follow along while rewatching your explanation. You're right, it is hard to describe. Your previous video on making sacrificial layers was an excellent tutorial also. Many thanks from this retired guy trying to teach himself Fusion 360!
I loved your explanation of the sequential bridging. I’m still new to fusion 360 but have some small amount of prior experience with auto cad and am trying to translate over my already limited knowledge pool to fusion so this explanation definitely helped a lot! Thank you so much!
Thank you for your tips. I really like the sequential bridging idea.
When it is possible, I just simply insert the nut (or any other metallic part) during the printing after I set a pause on the next layer in the slicing.
This is the kind of great and helpful content that I subscribed for so many years ago. I love your full project ones too, but the ones you have done on how to solve specific issues are always my favorite! I'd love to see more music making content too. Love your music, and only about 2 years ago I started learning to make music with a DAW. But I know that stuff doesn't fit the channel as well.
G'day Angus m8.....id love to learn to cad so i can make my own stuff, but the software scares me seriously. Im 49 and have spent since 2018 living a shut in existence living with Anxierty, Deep depression and PTSD plus lower back issues. So most of my chat is done outside the home is done via digital services. It was you guys of the 3d printing community that helped partly by showing me how easy 3d printing was to do in 2020 and so it gave me a hobby and striving when i can to use them i have an ender 3v2 was my first printer and have done some light mods in the last 4 yrs. living with my condition is hard for me and i just get this weird anxierty when someone says " ahh i'll just fix it in cad"... cheers if you read this m8... all good if ya skip it too. cheers from brisbane
This is a *very* clever approach. When I'm doing extrusions like this, I typically extrude above and below the plane rather than from object, but I'll be adding this approach to my toolbox as well.
Thank you for this! I have wanted to address this in a part or two and hearing you articulate it made it crystal clear. 'Got's lots of work to do now TYVM
The real second best option is to enable the new, experimental feature in prusaslicer 2.6 to use "extra perimeters on overhangs". Still has some failure on the first layer of the bridge, but better than "just print it".
For the 45 overhang, you could of course print a separate object to put on the bold before inserting.
Funny how Prusa Slicer is adding this feature, yet on SuperSlicer it already exists and we have "Simulate Prusa No Thick Bridge" to basically make it work like PrusaSlicer. I had having bridges that act as perimeters because the speed is dictate by the perimeter speed and not the bridge speed / flow / fan.
@@ChrizRockster Ahhh didn't know, use superslioer only sor tuning filament. Ill look into it a bit more.
@@ChrizRockster isn’t super slicer the slicer that just undid it’s lifetime license and wants like 100 dollars for a slicer that’s missing a bunch of key features of the freebies?
@@Mawyman2316 , you're thinking of Simplify 3D. SuperSlicer is a fork of PrusaSlicer. Which is a fork of Slic3r. Bambu Labs also forked off of PS and reskinned it
@@shawnjones5443and the Orca took bamboo slicer and...
I've come up with this trick independently about a year ago, didn't know it's "a thing". Glad more people are going to use it.
Whether said or not i think it is important to say that this would be most applicable for complicated shapes that demand to be printed in a way that a bore like is being exampled would be in the orientation that is being shared.
Well done mate!
I just tried this out and it works great! No more drilling out sacrificial layers.
Tried that immediately, works like a charm. Great trick Angus, thank you!
I can't describe how happy I feel to learn that "Extrude from Object" is an "advanced" technique. I use it a lot, and since I basically learned how to use Fusion from your videos, it's like you just came and gave me a gold star.
And since I live in Alberta and everything looks almost exactly like post-apocalyptic Caprica in the Battlestar Galactica reboot, I really, really needed that "good job" feeling. Because the smoke is so, so bad.
Thank you for creating this video. This is going to change a lot of my modeling just watching you. Thank you for all the content you give us.
This is so helpful and exciting because I can’t wait for an update on this like two years from now for new techniques that people develop.
Thanks Angus! Great Example that is highly applicable to mass production. The reduction in translation errors (when sending to a manufacturer) and of post processing labor are huge factors when trying to mass produce a 3D Printed product profitably.
It's a great technique, but worth noting that since the extrude cuts used to manipulate the slicer into generating the bridging are tailored to the intended layer height, you still need to make sure the person slicing the files follows your print setting spec, same as you would if achieving this result through support material instead.
@@netpackrat yes, unless you send them a pre-sliced file. In my case, I have my own print farm, so no issue there for me.
“Mass Produce 3D Printed Product” sounds like a losing game. Unless this definition of “mass produce” only applies to the scale a personal print farm can manage.
Couple thousand a month or whatever.
I saw this a while ago in a hackaday article. Very useful technique.
Especially useful for internal captive nuts, where you model a void for the nut, and you put in gcode to pause the print at the last layer before bridging, insert the nut, and then print over top of the nut.
thanks man! I leaned a few new things. not only the techniques, but hte cad knowledge of extruding at angles and extruding starting at the surface of an object, two things I've been struggling with.
Excellent video!! Your CAD work explanation was fine by me. True, it is a "more advanced" use of the software, but if you already have a good understanding of Fusion, it made total sense!
One approach I've used for rapidly doing a lot of these type of holes in onshape is to create form tools for this and then boolean them out. It with a point pattern is a real quick way to place holes. Going to have to add this to my library of tricks though.
I do the same for blender because it's so much more difficult to make precise parts there. But I can also see it being very useful for when you want to pattern a lot of more complex shapes like the solution presented here. Cause I image you could do this bridging with more than 4 cuts for even better hole precision and printing.
Very well explained 👌
I just stumbled on this dilemma while 3D designing yesterday, great timing!
Always a wealth of good information! Thank you for sharing this.
Wow, that's what I love about this channel, learned another fusion tip, extrude from object. Thanks for sharing
Thanks. I've used these approach with my models implemented in OpenSCAD.
That's really useful!!! Thanks so much for this! I am currently in the middle of drawing a design that sort of requires this technique. Very cool. Thank you so much for this
Hey Angus, I like this trick for strengthening a part with metal or carbon fiber, and it would work for situations like this too. Pause the print, drop the strengthening object into it cavity, and resume the print.
Very clever modeling. Thank you for all the great ideas.
Great idea. 3DSet's Landy Mini on Printables uses really cool thin bridge supports for the windows of the body. They bridge the whole window gap, then stay a mm away from the edges for a cm or so upwards, then have another small bridge, then print the window overhang. The bridge breaks away clean but easily holds a 90 degree overhang without ruining the vertical parts of the window.
I also came up with that a few years back for some led mounting brackets i had to print in a specific orientation, it worked well enough
The hardest part of my 3d printing experience was designing parts with machining in mind. I've worked in a CNC shop, programming and machining custom parts, eventually ending up doing a large run of parts for the aerospace industry (F16 and MIG21 upgrades). The design always stuck me as simple and elegant. Once I started to design my 3d printable parts with machining in mind I found out that they were a lot easier to print and in one case, it was an absolute joy going to mass production via injection molding. For people getting into this hobby/profession, I'd recommend reading books on technical drawing, machining basics and industrial design. Their are a Godsent and make learning CAD modelling a pleasant experience!
THANK YOU!!! such an easy idea and I never thought of it, been a few times I could have used this
That extrude trick was great. I need to remember the explore scripting and rules in the 3D feature menus.
Thank you very much for that awesome trick! It made my life as a professional designer and maker of 3D printed parts much easier!
That's an awesome idea! Thank you so much for sharing it, and hats off to its inventor, Nophead.
Tell me why that sequential bridging isn't a part of a slicer? It would make my life so much easier!
With the current rate of slicer development it might not be long 🤔
Nice! Needed this knowledge for a recessed bolt in a bracket part I worked on recently. Going to go back and improve it. Cheers!
I've been waiting for this!!! I knew you'd not disappoint! I cant wait to watch this! game changer! Thanks Angus
I could watch videos like this Every day, Love the tricks and tips videos, and always interested to know of new approaches!
Thank you for the F360 tutotial piece. I didn't know about this feature before.
Those advanced techniques i use very often. I never thought of them as advanced. Thanks for the ego boost 👍🏻👍🏻
Im in to composite planetery gears at the moment, this is indeed a nice trick for those bearing holes that do need to be precise. Cheers!
SIMPLE tip!!! It is SO simple,... why didn't I come up with this??? ... Thats why this is a GREAT video!!!
This is amazingly helpful. Thank you!!
I just started doing this from a video I found 3 years ago from @Maniacal Lab LLC.
And for horizontal holes I use the method you showed in your print without supports video with a modification to the teardrop hole shape. I cut the top of the teardrop off so it has a flat edge. The printer can bridge that easily. Make the flat part at the same radius where the circle would be. Makes for a nice fitting hole if anything is supposed to fit inside since you’re now supported at the top as well. You only have two small bits of open air at like the 10:00 and 2:00 position.
Nice, thanks! Thats a neat way of creating overhangs, but specifically for nut and bolt fixings like that I like to pause the print, drop the nut into place and then continue the print. I didnt come up with that one myself, but this is mine: Pour wax into cavities with closed tops after pausing the print, let it set and then continue. The wax plugs easily drop out with a little warm water, but it only works with TPU or other plastics that stick to a cold print bed.
I did this about a while ago, but I simplified it by starting a sketch on the surface that I wanted to have the sequential bridge, then I extruder every bridge by 0.2mm more than the last one.
I was using it for a piece of wall art that I wanted to hang, but I didn't want it to be solid and waist material, but I didn't want to have to support the center. It came out great!
@@6moon.s yeah, I mean it's a cool way to get it all done in one sketch, but I don't think it's worth it. It makes it harder to remember what sketch had what feature of I pack too many in one.
Thank you Angus! 3rd option so good.
In some instances, a support blocker can be used to add an infill pattern that, counterintuitively, supports those floating layers from bores. It's a tried and tested method for me, and I'm printing a piece with such method as I write.
Wow! sequential bridging FTW !!!
Thank you for sharing this!
I use the conical relief approach for making knobs with embedded nuts. They print up to the top of the pocket for the nut, then the slicer pauses so I can put in the nut. The conical relief on the top keeps plastic from gumming up the threads. They tighten against the flat base, not the cone, so strength is not a problem.
This is brilliant. Thank you!
Great tips. I'd extrude the half with the bore up from the sketch plane, and the hex and bridges down, so everything was relative to the sketch, but there'll be dozens of ways to skin this particular cat.
Great video. As someone who prints for a commercial reason, and some fun prints. Sometimes I need to print holes/bores.
I am a tinkercad user. And I can see how to incorporate this into my tinkercad designing, and orientation on the build plate.
Cooling on most new 3D printers are good enough to support minor bridging. So adding it into the design can save filament and print time.
Mixed with CHEP's Ender 3 profiles, this saves me much time and headache. Because of South Africa's power outage issue, I have to fit my prints into a timeslot, bacause, SHOCK! sometime print resume fails. Or it leaves a terrible missing layer line on the print surface.
So, again, thank you for your videos. You, and other YT content creators makes my life so much easier with your educational videos. Or fun, watching you trying to balance a MK4 on a table that is a bit small for the purpose.
very good explanation! From now on I will extrude from the surface!
Excellent explainer as always Angus. Nice work! 👏
Thanks for sharing this! Cheers!
Angus, your description was a bit too quick to follow, but the idea is enough for me. Thank you.
I like that you are very much like me, a "design to the process" kinda guy. I giggle whenever I see someone want to 3D scan an injection moulded car component, complete with ribs and bosses, and expect to 3D print an exact replica.
Very clever. Thanks for the video!
That’s very interesting. One thing I have used with very good success has been Cura’s tree supports. With a low density of 2-3% and support interface, my large overhang prints for my Iron Man build have gone incredibly well.
I've had great results using 0% infill with tree supports, and saved so much time
Awesome! I've used sacrificial bridging for years (learned from you haha) but maybe I'll give the sequential bridging a try! You explained it really well and it could save valuable post-processing time.
Cool methods.
Take that a step or 2 further and that round becomes a knob for a hex bolt. Add a very slight draft angle to the hex extrude, use a nut to pull the head thru from the build plate side, and it stays put due to friction. I've used this often when making split-ring hose clamps and pivots for mounts. The draft keeps the nut in place on the other side of the part too. Helps to account for machine tolerances while keeping a tight fit.
Very cool! I'll have to use this method in the future!
Another trick you can do for the 45 degree overhang option is to print the difference between the part and the overhang part (in this case a hexagonal pyramid with a 6mm hole in the middle) as a separate part and glue it in afterwards
Yes its more printer time and an additional step, but it makes the CAD easy and still gives you a flat bottom to the hole to tension a bolt
Yeah that'd work too! Many options for sure
@@MakersMuse Dang it...I posted the same thing just seconds before scrolling down an inch and seeing this...DOH! lol
Great minds think a like I guess. Didn't even think to look 'til after I posted and then thought wait a second...SOMEBODY probably already thought of...dammit. LOL
You don't even need to glue it in, the nut/bolt will hold it ini like any washer! The major advantage of this vs bridging is that it doesn't make the model dependant on a certain layer height.
IMO, it's faster to use a full sacrificial bridge and drill them out, than it is to use this insert method.
personally i'm a fan of the sacrificial layer (and i always do only 1 layer) - worked out everytime
That "to object" feature of Fusion360's extrude is a very cool tool. You can even specify curved surfaces.
Genius, thanks a lot for sharing this!
I just do the design and modeling for my parts and I send them to my print guy. I know enough about 3D printing to know about overhangs etc, so I always make the bottom face (the face touching the print bed) a different colour so he straight away knows the orientation I intended for it to be printed in. It's a small detail but is great for everyone to be on the same page in back n forth emails.
I've just always done supports that I knock out with a bolt
but, I've had multiple times where that support has been almost impossible to get out due to the design
so having this under my belt will be useful
Great Video & Explanation....thx mate!👍🤝
If you have the tapered bore, you can secondarily print a bunch of "tapers" that fill the void space, and trivially slot and glue them in. It's a bit more work, but trivially easy to post-process for anything that doesn't require mass manufacture.
In fact, this strategy works in general if you can later ADD the nut insert to the design. This is not always desirable, but may be useful allowing the printing of a bunch of nut inserts, and then later gluing them into a part as needed. This simplifies the design, should yield faster print-times, and low post-process.
With the 45° overhang roof on the bore, you could also print the positive version to insert before the nut. It should be an easy print, and distribute loads more evenly, and if the tolerances are just right you could actually have a stronger feature than with support material due to the increased number of perimeters...
true, but that's a bunch of extra work
Would love more fusion guides like this
If you need to take a higher load you might want to enable the option that increases infill over holes for a few layers, that way you can use lower infill in your parts and have them with a similar strength. In cura you can also set a block to like 80% infill for the whole column above the bolt if you need it to take a large load.
Though you may want to add cones and/or pegs to locate and take some of the load. You can also use rubber from bike tubes if you want extra friction.
If you have conductive filament you can use brass heat set inserts as plugs. It can make design simpler.
But if you don't you can also use channels in which you put single strand wire that you bend to shape using a guide. You can do it either in 2 parts or by pausing the print and putting the wire inside.
Awesome, thanks for sharing 👍
In some cases is available an “infill emulation” bridging. You can construct some bridges grids (more or less spaced) of lines (your nozzle define the measure), and then make the suspended layer.
In the specific case you explained for the nuts with empty area on top, due to the inclined walls, if you want, you can print a solid with the empty volume shape (clearance calculated) and put it inside the hole, so the printed structure can be compressed, as a unique printed piece.
Hi ! Thank you for this technique. I use another one, but not by modifying the modeling. I often make parts that require a molded nut, incorporated into the part. I program a print pause just before the layer that covers the nut's imprint, I place the nut directly in the printed part, and I restart the print. The nut supports the axle hole.
With the cone trick, you don't need bolts with coned shoulders - just print matching coned washers. Same trick works for stepped bridges under high loads - print washers with matching steps.
I would expect stepped bridges with matching washers to be stronger than conical with matching washers, but that's worth an experiment to confirm/refute.
Some very interesting techniques for avoiding supports besides chamfering edges!
That last trick is clever. I always design for no support printing as much as possible.
Nice, very good demo!
Very awesome. Thank you.
One easy way to improve the 45 degree overhang approach is to simply print a matching insert as well. So, for a counter-bored hole where you use the 45 degree trick, just print a 45 degree cone (with a hole matching the smaller bore) that fits directly into that hole. I've seen significant improvements from this over using just the 45 degree trick, as the layer lines seem to mesh together, transferring the load much more directly than you'd expect for a simple 45-degree interface.
Omg....I learnt something new today! And it wasn't such the sequential bridging, but I never knew that in Fusion 360 you could extrude from an object's surface! I've been jumping through hoops trying to get the same outcome and it was right there under my nose! 😂
I did not know about the extude from object feature. The way I normally do it is to exude the different profiles above and below the sketch, but any more detail and I would have to create a new sketch. This will save me so much time :D
I mostly use sacrificial layers. Benefit: it can be easily added to existing models directly in the slicer via adding a small 0.2mm thick disc shape. That would be a cool feature request to do automatic sacrificial layers for holes directly in the slicer
That was a great lesson / tip.
Very useful as usual, thanks!
Yes, with complex designs sometimes you have to print that way up. Thanks Angus.
You're welcome
Oisin
for standard sizes and geometries, it can sometimes be as simple as using a wedge of wood, a metal nut, or something similar added to the print before the layers start printing that would need the support.
You explained it well mate! Well at least to me haha. Definitely something to think about next time I’m doing some designing in Fusion!
Nice video, thanks for the interesting content, Angus