SA80 History: L98A1 Cadet Manually-Operated Rifle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
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The Army Cadet Force is a British quasi-military organization that acts general as a precursor to military enlistment. With the adoption of the L85A1 as the British service rifle, a manually operated copy was also developed for use by Cadets. Designated the L98A1, this rifle was built without a gas system, and had a specialized charging handle to provide more leveraged extraction than the standard bolt handle.
This L98A1 was phased out of use in 2009, being replaced with the L98A2, which is essentially an L85A2 without fully automatic capability.
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Careful Ian, if you upload too many SA80 videos, your channel might jam.
Dude good joke but the a2 is good
don't worry, at some point the Germans will come fix it
TheGoldenCaulk lol love it
And if Americans wont be able to end it ,Belgians will complete it with some (hi)power
The Belgians imported their Hi Power from Utah.
The rear sight also works as a carry handle!*
...
*do not use the rear sight as a carry handle, it will break
We never had a problem.
The handle doesn’t necessarily break, it just messes with the sight that is on it, making the sight unreliable.
Never had an issue personally. We used to carry a bunch at a time
We were told that “it’s not a handbag”, not that it would or did break.
@@arbytoaster22 Using the rear sight? My lord.
I remember breaking that charging handle after the guy who was instructing me told me it was almost impossible to do..
FlyasaDiamond It does indeed look flimsy.
The whole thing was flimsy. We often joked that there wasn't much point making sure our kit was quiet because the rattle coming from the rifles was louder anyway. Often they just didn't fit together quite right.
@@praetorian65 oh that rattle when out on excersize (swear you could hear those cocking handles rattling 3 miles away)
i remember using one of those god they was terrible going salisbury plain = no ones weapon working, so many terrible memories of these things.
I liked them. I never had problems.
Military cadets in the UK is a bit like boy scouts. This weapon is designed for children. I was in the Air Cadets way back in the late 70's. I did my marksmanship with a bolt action 22 enfield. The "club" was on the school grounds and I was 13 at the time. We had uniform and an introduction to military training. It was a lot of fun, we did loads of things and learnt lots of stuff. As I was in the Air Cadets we got to go glider flying and we were expected to take the controls and do some turns and stuff. I was less impressed with all the matching, square bashing isn't a lot of fun for a teenager, but we learnt all the same. I played Rugby and was in the wing rugby team. The staff were all retired military men.
I have a friend that is retired from the Army and he helps out at a local Army Cadets. There is also the Sea Cadets as the Royal Navy's cadet training. These are government funded organizations.
I was in the Cadets at school as well. I did marksmanship with a WW2 era SMLE firing .303 rounds at an outdoor range near Southport. If you did well, you got chance to fire the FN rifle. I enjoyed it but the Enfield was a brute of a thing to lug about for a fifteen year old kid! I was lucky as I already knew how to shoot so I didn't get the bruised shoulder that some of the other lads suffered with. I was good enough to shoot the FN, but not that good!
We were restricted to 22, I think because we were in an indoor range are RAF Mountbatten in Plymouth. I still have fond memories of that time. I would have lasted longer in the cadets but after around a year I discovered why we were Wing marching champions. Our facilities were poor and square bashing was just about all we could do on a regular basis. There was also a couple of the adult volunteers that were former RAF regiment, I mentioned this to my dad at the time and this was all he needed to know as to why we were spending so much time on the parade ground. Lol!
Stephen Morrish - Canada has the same 3 branches of cadets. I was a Sea Cadet in grades 5 & 6 and Air Cadets in grades 7 - 12. This was back in the 80's and if one was diligent, they could come out of it with a fully qualified pilots licence. I here it's a bit more difficult to do that these days though. Would not be surprised to here that other Commonwealth countries have the same thing.
Cheers,
- Eddy
Stephen Morrish friend of mine is in the air cadets for the RAF
Over here in America we're boring as fuck and don't have a program like that
The army has never been rich in common sense, I remember first getting a rifle issued and being told "Don't carry it by the carrying handle". The mental gymnastics is hilarious at times. On a final note, this particular variant is exactly why you shouldn't design a rifle whilst on crystal meth.
When I was in apprentice training during the 1980s carrying handles on the L1A1s were only used if you were moving rifles from the college armoury down to adults training barracks. You can carry more rifles that way. Other than that we ALWAYS said that the carry handle was for Poofs & Paras!
Every video you make from the Royal Armouries is pure gold!
Holy crap, this takes me back to afternoons at school, and Summer camp in Catterick. I still remember pretty much everything about that rifle.
Apparently when they stopped using the manually operated Cadet rifles they crushed thousands of them! They would have been legal for UK gun owners to buy under section 1. Makes me so angry!
Even if they were legal, remember that they were quite old at that point and were well used.
srspower it shouldn't be surprising anymore that UK government missed an idea that could have made them some money. In fact it seems that they have a fetish for throwing money down the toilet
They did everyone a favour when they crushed these, trust me. A golf club is a better civilian weapon than these.
You wouldnt say if a nutjob bought one an shot you an many others.
Having used one - good riddance! It's a piece of junk!
Just to make it clear this was only used by the army cadet force (A.C.F or C.C.F) in the U.K. which was a youth organisation for children aged 13 to 18 and ran by ex military instructors.
I used these for many years whilst in the cadets on the ranges and on exercise with blank ammo.
We found if you wanted to rapid fire them when using blanks on exercise if you held it on its side with the butt against your hip you could hold the pistol grip in your right hand and the left could quickly cock the weapon for every shot. Totally unrealistic but you could fire quicker than using it the correct way!
I was usually a squad support gunner and used the LSW (light support weapon) which was semi or full auto.
The Air Training Corps also used them. Awful bit of junk, bring back the Mk. 8.
Luigisiv I found in the prone position, which is the most common firing position for cadets, simply holding the trigger down with your left hand, then cocking and slamming the bolt home with your right hand worked just fine.
The L98A2 that's been around since '09 is fine.
Luigisiv It was used by the ATC as well
With great regret I may say.
Joined cadets last week, got to hold one of these, charging handle was heavy af, pretty cool experience
We had an indoor range and gun locker full of these at one of my schools. I remember watching the cadets marching out of the school gates with these, covered in plastic bin bags so that 'nobody could see' what they had. For context, most of these kids were 14/15...
Duncan Taylor sounds funny
Having been in the Cadets I can say two things:
1. Thankfully, I we had full auto ones. Unfortunately however, we got A1s.
2. For the Americans out there, the Cadets in the U.K. I's like the scouts. But with balls.
I'm a couple years late but oh well. I'm a cadet now and we only have semi autos. Plus we've just had all the LSWs taken off us. But at least they're all a2s or 3s
@@charliemccannon2412 when I was in we got LSWs, but only A1s, some worked like a dream but some of them literally jammed on every round, potluck of a shared batch of rifles between many kids i guess
@@charliemccannon2412 most rifles still have the mechanism for automatic setting in them
@@jetblack749 Yep, most are just neutered L85s you can still see where the fire selector switch would be.
I was taught to shoot with this rifle at school, brings back great memories!!
oh, what a nostalgia episode. Takes me right back to the early-2000s.
Same! Weeks at Crowborough army camp and bivvy bashing. Miss it.
These were renowned among the cadets at the time for jamming and being utter shite, yet most issues were mainly down to cocking technique and the natural small size of most of the shooters (typically 13-18 year olds of slight build).
If the rearwards cocking action was too slow the empty case would not eject. If the bolt was held open or the bolt ridden back forwards by hand then the next round would often not feed correctly, especially if that empty case was still in there! :D
Hence lots of jams. The best technique was a hard yank back all the way and allow you hand to come off as the bolt hit the buffer, allowing it to return normally. I suppose this mimicked the action of the gas action. I don't recall any stoppages once my Warrant Officer had explained this and demonstrated it to me. Later when I used to help run the range with him as a Cadet Flight Sergeant, I often would help the younger cadets (13 year olds weighing about 5 stone!) run the rifle by me kneeling next to them on their right and running the action with my left hand. I got peppered with cases but it always worked.
Regarding reliability/accuracy jibes against this, I typically would shoot 3-4 inch groups at 100m from unsupported prone. At 25m I would normally shoot 25mm groups. On the rapid shoots I would normally manage 20 shots in just under 40 seconds, as I had a good rhythm: breathe in while cocking, out whilst returning the had to the pistol grip, release shot once lungs fully relaxed. Repeat. I would normally manage 25-40mm groups at 25m with that method, although my WO would still tell me off for rushing despite me actually recording some of my best groups that way.
In short, while I (obviously) like the rifle, and while it could obviously be made to work with training and skill, the fact that an otherwise accurate rifle was SO susceptible to operator error highlights the problems inherent within it. It wasn't idiot (or cadet) proof!
When I was a senior cadet, I used to run all the firearms drills. Whereas operating the action is pretty straightforward on most firearms, I had to spend a disproportionate amount of time training cadets to properly cycle the gun. Literally any other design of manual repeating rifle would have been a fine training rifle.
This is what happens when you stick a handle on the bolt of an automatic rifle and pretend it is a straight-pull.
Of course, the biggest mistake was not adopting the M4 carbine instead of the SA80 in the first place.
I really miss using these, spent 2 years in the Cadets and these were the highlight of everyone's day back then :)
next the muzzle loading sa80 :/
oh i'm sure the kippers can find a way :)
Got rod jammed in barrel. Powder wet, wouldn't fire. Added more powder, bulged barrel. Also, bayonet blade snapped off.
"bayonet blade"? you mean combination cleaning rod bayonet spike. The tip of the cleaning rod bent or snapped.
would probably have a higher rate of fire over more than 30 rounds.
I am currently an Army Cadet in the uk and we use the L98a2 Cadet Gp rifle, which is basically an l85a2 with only semi automatic. We also use a .22 semi auto conversion of the L98a2, and a 7.62x51 target rifle. We used to have fully automatic l86 LSW’s but got rid of them in 2019 I think.
Are the target rifles still the parker hales rifle? God I miss being on century range at bisley with that thing
@@llspoondogg5400 I believe they updated them a few years ago, although it might vary up and down the country a bit.
The a2 is such an improvement. The rifle is a joy to use compare to the a1.
It always brings a smile to my face when I see Ian and just how much he loves what he does :)
I was issued a .303 Enfield No4 when I was in Cadets, which was only slightly smaller than me. As I grew and joined the Army I was issued the smaller SLR , when fully grown I got the tiny SA80 when they came in - So Ive been issued every standard pattern of infantry rifle that century.
SMLE
@@timwingham8952 The SMLE was the preceding version. The No.III and III*.
One thing you missed Ian - the 'flash hider' is non-standard, and so the rifle cannot mount the Blank Firing Attachment. As a result, you had to be very careful NOT to point it at someone you intended to 'shoot' during an exercise.
SergeantSarge Yes, train people to not aim at the enemy; man, the fail on these guns is just priceless
SergeantSarge I doubt they were used on exercise, they wouldntve been used by the army and the cadet forces wouldnt risk using live rounds for training exercises, because kids will end up shooting each other
Hazo They were. I used them, as did many thousands of ex-cadets in the country. Blanks only of course, live rounds restricted to range shooting.
@@THEASSASIN1511 ermm your wrong we used them and lsw's i watched a cadet shoot himself in the foot with a blank he turnt white, i watched another discharge a blank at a officers head........ luckily jesus or some god was watch and stopped that officer getting seriously hurt...
@@infinitiy11 in the 2 years since i posted that original tweet ive actually used a rifle with a BFA and nothing actually comes out the end
My first rifle that i fired with live ammunition. Nostalgia moment right there. Thanks Ian.
Ah, the nostalgia!
I remember the change-over from the A1 to the A2 happening in our battalion (Yorks N&W) when I was 18 and getting ready to leave. The gas-system on the A2 taught me the painful lesson that I was pants at keeping my barrel pointed at a target for more than a couple of shots in a row, without either help from a bipod (L86) or without being forced to reacquire my sight picture using that monstrous ‘cocking lever’. I actually used to be able to shoot a good (Marksman) grouping. Was a especially fun when taking blanks out into the training area - the muzzle device is milled off to prevent the mounting of a bayonet - also a BFA. Used to be like a little shotgun, spraying gas, wadding and bits of crimped brass in a 5m cone around the barrel. Could really defoliate the moorland around you. Thinking back, I don’t think I’d ever get as close as I did to the muzzle of one of these.
Many fond memories of going on exercise with these as a teenager. Only the occasional burn injury
Oh Wow memories. I used to know that rifle very well as was a 3 star corporal cadet in the ACF Royal Green Jackets. I took it on exercise at Salisbury Plain, Scotland Devon and many other places. I carried it for days including sleeping with it, field strip, target practice and all the normal things associated etc. In my first year as a cadet we had Lee Enfield's then the GP as that's what we knew it as. When we got those we thought it was the Dogs Bol**cks as looked so cool and modern like a proper automatic weapon. The looks we got in uniform when in public carrying those down the street was great as people got scared of kids with guns LOL (that didn't happen much). I do remember on a weekend exercise at Rodney House our regular camp it did jam on me once in freezing temperatures but really they were very good for us. I lost my magazine for it once from my webbing and didn't realise until it was found by a Gurkha instructor we had of all people (The Best Soldiers in the World Gurkha's) which was so embarrassing but didn't fall off the rifle as some people say with mag release noted as a bad design. Honestly the SA80 design is better than it's reputation but certainly not perfect and yes there's much better out there but if you looked after them and kept them clean and properly lubricated they worked. Thanks for that Ian takes me back
I have many fond memories of firing this! I was in the ATC (Air Training Corps) aka Air Cadets, in the mid 90's, from age 13 to 20. I was always of slight build as a kid, and I can still vividly recall firing this prone at a 25m ranged target whilst on Summer camp at an RAF base, and being pushed an inch backwards by the recoil with every round I discharged. Great to see it again after all this time.
Glad you got over to England. Those collections you're highlighting have definitely enriched my firearms knowledge.
I was in the CCF (in the RAF flight, which was twinned with the Army Air Corps). I remember exercising a section attack. As I ran across a field at Sennybridge I stumbled on the rough ground, tripped and fell. The muzzle of my L98 plunged into the muddy ground and as my body lurched downwards, my fall was broken by my jaw smacking the butt of the rifle, sending off the breached cartridge...Into the mud. However, I had not only managed to fire a round off with my jaw, but with the safety catch actually engaged too! So I'd managed to hit the rifle _SO_ hard that it had completely malfunctioned when a 14yr old boy struck it with his flimsy face...
I'm 30 now and it still makes me chuckle how bad these things were.
My CCF unit replaced the L98s with a load of old SA80A1s that had been converted to single-shot-only once the Regulars began receiving the SA80A2 in decent numbers. Unfortunately that was after I had left.
I remember shooting these when I was with the ATC, at about 13 or 14 years old. Cheers for the video, brings back fond memories
I was a cadet instructor as a teenager and used to teach this rifle. A lot of younger cadets had trouble holding the thing up, let alone getting it to cycle correctly, so they'd rest the magazine on the ground while firing which caused even more problems. I also saw one fifteen-year-old gorilla of a kid who tore the charging handle off the rail. You can launch the guide rod about ten metres in the air during disassembly, or replace the thing upside down and wreck it that way too. All that said though, they're a lot of fun.
That takes me back! Although that charging handle was often referred to as the 'jamming handle' when in use. Especially 'entertaining' was when the extension rod would pop out of the bolt carrier (as intended when stripping the rifle) when at fuil cock, causing the bolt carrier to return to the forward position while the charging handle slid off the back of the rail and was left in the confused cadet's hand. Especially good when on the range with a live round now in the breech and the action cocked, and no easy way to extract it that didn't involve either wrestling with the rifle or, better, firing that shot downrange before using a tool to slide the carrier back again.
I'm glad my cadet days were with the A2, semi automatic self loading. Couldn't imagine this.
As a former cadet I used the SA80 but only a select Fire version, I never came across this version of the rifle. Never the less we had great fun with these rifles
The L98 was my first 5.56mm rifle, when I was in the Air Cadets 20-odd years ago. Lovely rifle - though I did once see a new cadet manage to jam three drill rounds into the breech simultaneously. Opening an L98 with the springs compressed is quite interesting...
Watch for your eyes,and only remove half of the pin.As I did accidentally hit my m8 next to me once,luckily the whole disassembling process was done on the flour,so it didn’t hit my eye.BTW those CCF instructors always like to do it in front of new cadets on purpose,and also calming the bolt as a very expensive part so cadets are not allowed to disassemble it.The irony is the were destroying a bunch of them to DP rifles,also we could just go u tube forgotten weapons and learn how to disassemble one.
So great to see you look at this weapon. I fired them many times during my time in the Air Training Corps. :) Good times.
I used this in the cadets! In fact it was part of my school so my school actually had an armoury including No8 Lee Enfield .22 rifles. Strangely enough as cadets we had these manually charging rifles, but also had full auto LSWs. Many kids didn't like carrying the LSW on exercise due to the extra weight. Safe to say I didn't mind..
So glad us cadets now get semi automatic L98 variants, I can't even imagine the pain of using that thingg
They were terrible, although you could fit a. 22 conversion kit that made them semi auto... Also with the charging handle on fieldcraft weekends us cadets would pull the trigger and the instructors would be constantly charging the handle almost like full auto!
Used these as a 15 year old CCF member.....utter shite. Give me a Lee Enfield No. 4 over this any day.....
Agreed. The .22 chambered Lee Enfield was a far better weapon to learn the basics of shooting with. The only advantage with this thing is that you would be familiar with SOME of the drills and maintenance etc. involved with the L85 if you were planning on joining up after cadets.
It would also lower your expectations to the point where the real L-85A1 would have seemed reliable by comparison, I'd wager.
Rob Ashton I think you're referring to the No.8 rifle which was .22 but the No.4 was .303
Richard Price I stand corrected. Yes, the No. 8 then.
Richard Price Trent wing air cadet here, in my experience the l98 was a semi auto only version of the l85, is that weird or normal?
This rifle symbolises my teen years. I had so much fun in the cadets with this!
I've only ever seen 4 manually operated L85 derivatives in civie hands, 2 cadet rifles and 2 converted L86's many moons ago.
Nice to see you in my home city Ian! hope you got to see the rest of the city
Fist fired the No.8 Rifle and field stripped this at Barry Buddon AFC, cadets weren't allowed to strip the bolt normally but for cleaning we could use aglets on boots to pop the pin. No flash hider so BIG flash and during handling drills in prone position a lance corporal would go down the line booting the barrels (and the cheek rest into your face) to make sure you were holding it solidly. There was also a parade drill version as well with a painted hand guard.
Oh wow this takes me back!
i'm pleased to say that my time in the army cadets was around 1980, so i got to use No4s and occasionally a bren. No4s just work.
Fun fact: we don't use them anymore, we now only use the A2's which actually work and never jam thanks to HK. Unfortunately we still can't shoot full auto because they got rid of the lsw's that we use to use and the A2's have no fire selector switch
I haven't held one of these in over 30 years but guaranteed it would still fit like a glove.
I used these in the Royal Marine Cadets up in Giggleswick North Yorkshire. Our school had an armoury full of them. Great memories 👨✈️
Say what you will, but being a 12yo, and getting to 'train' with that rifle was pretty amazing. Watching these videos has brought back a lot of memories 💜
Used to shoot these in my Cadet days, plenty of fun!
They are also one of the greatest causes of frustration amongst British service rifle shooters! As we can't own self loading centre fire rifles the only choice we have is straight pulls (well except for the recent development of self ejecting rifles but that is another story), to that end there would be a solid market for these in the UK as many sports shooters myself included would like to own one as it is based on our national service rifle.
Unfortunately due to them never getting onto the civilian market we don't get access to them.
There is a tiny number owned by UK civilians, one was owned by a member of my rifle club fyi. How they got into civilian hands is interesting, there were some examples sold to countries like Canada for trials and they have worked their way back to the UK. They are then usually dressed up with later fittings to look like an A2 by their owner. Their rareity here makes them rather expensive if you can persuade someone to sell theirs!
To add further insult to UK sports shooters, eventually it was realised that the Straight pull variants were a struggle for some Cadets especially females. So an A2 variant was developed that is semi auto only for cadet usage. This leads to an absurd situation where a 13 year old Army cadet can shoot a self loading centre fire rifle whilst a member of the cadets but not as a civilian with a Firearms certificate.
Even worse the majority of L98A1 have been destroyed much to the anger of UK Civilian service rifle shooter who would have happily given them a new home. Apparently of the 21,707 made 4015 are in MOD storage.
Fedaykin24 you can always volunteer o help with cadets :p
No those days are long gone now, I make do with what I have. Got a new Ruger RPR Gen 2 arriving soon.
The stupidity of the MOD never fails to amaze me. They say they're short of cash yet choose not to sell old rifles from which they could turn a tidy coin. I'd love to pick up an old No 8 I used in cadets,.
Yup, ready market for a rifle that is Civilian legal and would bring some funding back to the MOD...decides to scrap the majority!
I left the ATC in 97 just before I turned 18 utterly fed up with the whole organisation. CO was Wings pet! For an Air Cadet squadron we did sod all about aviation! The CO was into sports so that's all we did week in week out! No model making, no radio activities, barely any aviation related lectures beyond those mandated to get to the next level! I complained about it once and was told that if I wanted it then I needed to organise it! The only positive was we had our squadron on a TA base with a .22lr range so we at least got regular shooting of the No.8.
After that a lack of serious promotion unless you had parents that got on with the CO or you were into sport. Spent nearly a year and a half as an acting Corporal, not even a full one. I had the CO bring me into the office once to say that if I wanted promotion to Sergeant I had to show more interest in the sports activities. I replied that he hadn't even signed off my promotion to Corporal which he then begrudgingly did. In other words he had forgotten that he hadn't even signed off my promotion!
The final straw for me was when I wasn't able to go to the annual summer camp as it clashed with a family holiday. I asked if I could go with a different wing ( I had done this before with a different camp) and despite him saying that he would help arrange it nothing happened. When I got back from my holiday I found that a younger cadet who had spent a fraction of time as a Corporal but:
A) Had parent who got on with the CO
B) Liked sport
had been promoted to Sergeant over me! Also yet again my application to do advanced Glider training had been put back! Any respect I had with the other cadets was blown and it was galling to be ordered around by somebody who had only got their Corporal stripes a few months earlier!
So I resigned, CO phoned back to say what about your promotion and the Glider training is sorted...told him no thanks I had joined a civilian glider club. I knew it was a mess around as they liked the weekly subs!
I hear the organisation has got a bit better but far too many overweight Walter Mitty VTR officers playing at being in the RAF with personal agendas.
The rear sight on the L98 is actually better than the iron sight on the L85. The Cadet rifle rear sight has adjustable range settings from 100-500m at 100m increments as well as a flip down 300m 'battle' sight. The L85 iron sight however only has a fixed setting and a flip down low light bit (basically just an enlarged rear appeture). There is no facility to change range settings, you are expected to just aim off. When I first noticed this I couldn't help thinking they got the sights mixed up.
Wow! Ian does a video on a rifle I have actually fired, and despite what people say it was relatively reliable when I was using it. Although we were firing ammunition so old that some was Desert Storm vintage so we had some interesting hangfires and smoking rounds being ejected on the range.
Spiz103 I once had one blow up in my face. gas and crap came out of the receiver. had to stop shooting because all the ammo was deemed unsafe.
I was CCF myself but I get the impression the ammo we were issued was simply whatever the station armourer had lying around and wanted rid of.
It's kind of weird as I was a cadet, in the ACF, and this version of the cadet rifle is very different from what I used. The version I used was closer to an A1 proper, and in fact I remember the A2 coming in because the cadet version had an issue with the charging handle because it was the new style "comma" handle and had an issue where you could cut your finger on the receiver. This was in the early 2000s (2004/5) so I'm not sure if this version is significantly different than the one shown in terms of named model numbers, but we always knew it as the SA80 cadet.
I was in the ACF in the 80's just as this rifle was issued to us. Up to that point we had been using old SMLE for blank firing exercises and a 22RF bolt action rifle ( can't remember the make) for target shooting. The L98A1 was supposed to replace both eventually. While I never got to shoot the target rifle , the blank firing converted L98A1's were total dog shit, jamming on blanks, failing to eject the spent casings and as we were teenagers - they would soon fall to bits with the abuse we gave them ;) The sturdy old Enfield's however put up with all the grief we threw at them and worked like charms - lovely rifle.
Dam it, commented while I was still watching the advert. If I had know you were in Leeds I could have come up on the boat and had a coffee with you, I can tie up right outside the Armouries. It's become an annual pilgrimage for me, always spend a week there in the summer.
It's great that even now the A2 is used as a cadet gp rifle. It has a gas system since we use it for live rounds but the main difference is the fact that the newer cadet rifle doesn't have full auto
Many a happy weekend spent in the cadet shooting team firing this rifle
I have fond memories from my early teens of these, I do remember the charging handle had a habit of breaking off frequently
I use these a lot as an air cadet (the new semi auto only version) so it is nice to see a video on this
Haven't watched in a while used to like every upload but I needed to build up a good amount to watch Haha
When I was in the cadets and used this rifle (Later on also used the L98A2 which is semi-auto without needing to manually reload) We didn't have that cocking handle, ours looked more like a nail with a metal cover on than anything that good. Thankfully they upgraded to the A2 around 2010/2012. Great training If you ever join the military because the weapon operates the same way as the service rifle
the L98.... was always fun when an Air Cadet, though I would say that the No8 .22 rifle was really the first introduction to shooting
Good old memory, almost 30 years ago with the English boarding school's CCF!
As others have said, cadets in the UK was a youth organisation, for kids 13-18 years of age.
I was an RAF cadet (Air Training Corps) in the mid 80's. And had a great time.
We shot the L1A1 (FN FAL) and no.4 Enfields in .303. I did have the chance to shoot the new fangled L98, but it was that or the FAL. And of course I took the FAL!
This was the second rifle I fired after the No.8 .22 rifle, and I really hope you do a video on the H&K .22 conversion of these because I remember firing one in the early 90s and every rifle on the range was getting a stoppage after no more than 2 shots, and often were getting 2 to 3 round bursts even though it was only semi-auto.
I was a Cadet for years, haha. Know this rifle like the back of my hand, first one I ever fired.
This brings back memories!
i was in the army cadet force these rifiles were cool as hell when we first got introduced to them then when we went on blank fire exercises i realised why regs hated them haha , it worth noting that there is a .22 cal conversion kit for these which we used to shoot on the range.
I was a army cadet in my early teens, we only shot those with blanks, doing war games on weekends with the British army, kind off Boy Scouts on steroids, I believe the army cadets was there to recruit you men into the British military, me and my platoon had great times, carrying out maneuvers and small arms tactics as 15 year old boys. I really enjoyed seeing that rifle again, living here in America now I own firearms I wish they had been more available here mainly just as a collectors pieces.
I’m in the Air cadets at the moment (I joined in 2011, stop being a cadet last year and now I’m a staff member) I don’t know if you know this but the L98 now days is exactly the same as the L85a2, except it’s a single shot only. Cadets also fire no.8 rifles (.22 caliber bolt action single loading rifles) and air rifles. Great videos Ian!
Brings back so many memories of my cadet days. Such a shame they never made them onto the public market, I apply for an FAC just to get one!
I have only used the L98 A2, and looking at this, wow, just wow.
My first time shooting with the RAF cadets was with an A1, It was a massive pain to use while prone. After the range package ended they were taken away and we got Semi-automatic L98A2's the following week. Loved that rifle
I love the A2 good times
I live in Leeds and I visit that museum every weekend
Loved this rifle as a cadet, many times spent on the range with it. The trick with cocking the rifle was to roll your two fingers off the charging handle at the fully back position as any hint of assisting or resisting it forward would jam the rifle. The new A2 is just a L85 without the full auto selector.
fired a few rounds through one of those. the cocking handle made it the drills rather interesting. the riffle cadets use now is exactly the same as the version issued to the millitary just with the full auto function disabled.
If you guys are curious, the cadets today use the L98 A2. that is literally a regular SA80 but in semi-auto only (as far as i can see they only reason it's in semi is because they just took off the fire selector so it can't be changed). the A2, in my experience (thought am not an actual soldier so I couldnt atest to its combat abilities) is a pretty good and solid rifle. never had a stoppage that wasnt my own fault.
Hi Ian, thanks for another great video!
Will you be doing a video on the L98A2 cadet rifle?
I used one of these beasts when I was in the army cadets in the late 90's. Fired both live and blank ammunition with it.
I shot this gun so many times, and the bren gun and target rifle. Made it to bisley every year loved the cadets.
The first firearm I ever used. When I was in the cadets they actually changed the rifles to the Cadet GP Rifle A2 (don't quote me but i think it was around 2008/9). Which was pretty much a standard iron sight SA80 but without a change lever, so no full automatic you could only fire on repeat. It came with learning a whole new set of drills (such as cocking the rifle with our left hand instead of with our right hand which i found awkward at the time but now I couldn't imagine cocking an SA80 with my right hand) and of course cleaning the gas parts. I remember as these rifles where manually operated there was never any need for a blank firing attachment, which meant all the gases and stuff went straight out the end of the barrel, which meant the range we could safely engage each other on exercise was restricted. I remember this because before every exercise one of the instructors would fire a single blank round at a coke can at point blank range and show us what was left of it to hammer home the point.
our instructors used water filled condoms which always got some laughs
I joined RAF cadets (ccf) in Sep. '92. You are a member of that military branch, and the officers are active military reserve.
The units varied a lot depending on the commanding TA unit. Ours in Dorchester, Dorset was well equipped with our own training/storage buildings, and an underground range (no8 Enfield's). The L98's fired blanks on field exercise, or were taken to military bases for range days. In '93 they were replaced with A2's (semi auto/3 round burst).
The A1 charging handle would fall out frequently causing jams, and yes the carry handle was not to be used. Across the chest, muzzle high was the doctrine.
In 3yrs I was proficient with L98, L85, L86, No4 Enfield, Browning Hi-power, Colt 1911, and best of all the Bren gun. Definitely not boy scouts!
"Bits". I can tell you're in the UK. Lol. Hope your having fun over there, be safe. Thanks for another awesome video.
Thank God I joined the Cadets when they had the L98A2, exact same as this rifle but with better iron sights and gas operated
I was in my last year in the cadets when these were first issued. This was at Summer Camp, there weren't enough to issue to school then. We didn't have a lot of time with them, but we hated them. The Cadet Training Team warned us about accidentally dropping the mag, as with the L85A1, as well as extraction issues, double feeds, and if you managed a ND by feeding a cartridge into the back of an unfired round you would be off the exercise. And the CT Team got pissed when they asked how many rounds would the mag hold and we all said 28, not 30.
The brass for the blanks were longer to make them full length as if they had the bullet in, but we could feed the No.4 with standard crimped brass faster than the L98. The bullpup design really didn't work, it was quite difficult to see the breach face to see if there was still a round in there. One of the guys in my section tried handing his rifle to me with a live round stuck in the breach that he hadn't noticed, so he got a bit of a beasting.
The oil bottle was plastic, and of course would have melted, so were withdrawn before we saw it.
I have fond memories of using the A2 version of these
I hated the L98 when I was in the Air Training Corps in the 1990s - as a strongly left-eye dominant left hander, I found it almost impossible to shoot without using an eye patch, but at that point it was the only option for shooting full-bore, as the L81 had been retired from use by cadets. I'm sure I could still field-strip one, as we always got a half-dozen L98s to strip and clean to keep us busy between our turns shooting .22 at the indoor range.
Bloody Hell, this brings back a few memories of my puny younger self struggling to pull back the cocking handle and having the damn thing constantly jam. I still remember to this day being told when stripping it to make sure you only pulled the pin out to the first click not the second to prevent the spring shooting out the back and ejecting your nice well oiled working parts halfway across the room and onto the dusty floor 🤣🤣 I managed to avoid that thankfully. Rifle drill was always 'fun', I was paranoid that I would catch my neck with the sight on shouldering arms.
I've fired this plus the lsw version with the bipod and an old .22 Enfield that felt like it weighed a ton to my 13 year old self. The best one was the Bren gun though. The instructors used to love putting it down with the barrel not attached but not locked into place and then asking the cadet to fetch the weapon for them. Because the carrying handle is attached to the barrel, when you went to pick it up the barrel would come off in your hand and you'd either get a mock bollocking for not checking it properly (you weren't really expected to know as you'd never seen the weapon before that day) or the instructor would just be sitting there pissing themselves laughing at you. It worked though, they only ever fooled me once hehe. Those were fun times even if the weapon wasn't the best.
This brought back some good memories, we were only allowed to load a maximum of 10 rounds into a magazine because if you loaded any more the magazine would cause stoppages and feed failures. It was fun to shoot though when it worked.
This is my first time seeing the A1 and it's soo weird compared to the A2. Thank you for this history.
I can still remember how to field strip one. They had a conversion kit comprising a reduced bore breach and a special mag that let you shoot .22 from them. The barrel effective length got reduced to a few inches, but it did the job.
as a member of the acf in 2017 that are now exactly the same as the real SA80 expt it is single shot only and is adapted for blanks although we have some 5.56 ones as well
Yes, that's the L98A2.
Forgotten Weapons negative that's the L85A2 designed for those who struggled to charge the A1
daniel newby no, the cadets use the L98A2 which is semi automatic only. The L85A2 is the service rifle, which is select fire.
The current cadet rifle is the L98A2 which is identical to the L85A2, but without a fire selector
I did a few years in thr cadets and heard about this rifle but never actually fired it! We used the L98A2 and on some occasions (such as on trips to bases/stations) the L85A2. On camps to Germany they busted out GPMGs and other goodies too. Interestingly enough the L98A2 is the L85 with the full auto selection removed
AHH the fun I had as a cadet droping 22 pellets down the barrel an blasting trees..was actually fairly accurate too.
I used this rifle during my cadet years. Lovely to shoot on the range
Actually cadets tended to learn to shoot with the .22 Lee-Enfield rifle no. 8 (essentially an SMLE without the magazine and chambered in .22), THEN we got to shoot this thing, and also the monstrous L81 (a shortened Parker-Hale M82).
I did my 'Skill at arms' with this rifle ! happy memories - I seem to remember there was an LSW version of this with no gas system
captainkavi - The Cadets LSW was the same as the TA/Reg Army. It even came with the X4 Magnification SUSAT Sight. It fired both Semi Automatic & Automatic but it was for Senior Cdts aged 16-18 years & 3/4* on their Army Proficiency Certificate/APC Trg Syllabus.
I remember we used to use the oil bottle clips as a maglite holders. Tacticool for the 14 year olds we were!
I was in the army cadets when these were introduced. They seemed space age and cool but a major pain to fire. I much preferred the Lee Enfield mk4 or better still the Bren (which was fantastic). Major nostalgia though.
I remember the cadet 'SA80' from back in the day. Was certainly much easier to lug around than the Lee Enfield we had previously had. Typically, we were lucky to be issued more than 3 blank rounds for a weekend camp/exercise, so didn't really matter how it functioned.