How Did We Let Mechs & Co Happen?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Thank you rmendis for a great talk!
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Thanks for watching! ＼(≧▽≦)／
시청해 주셔서 감사합니다! (´｡• ᵕ •｡`) ♡
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
05:43 - r/mk lockdown
09:52 - Group Buys Then vs. Now
21:55 - People knew Mechs & Co was coming...
28:30 - Moderators powertripping/SantiGo Customs drama
34:43 - How can we prevent future Mechs & Co?
42:14 - Should GB's still exist?
46:30 - How did manufacturers not catch this earlier?
48:25 - How can we move forward?
51:40 - What are the mods working on?
53:57 - Consider the positives
55:20 - GBs used to be fun - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
You know what ISN'T a group buy and already paid for, in stock, and ready to ship?
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Taeha going full keyboard journalist mode, love to see it.
haha not sure i qualify as journalist but thank you!
His voice is so calming and makes me feel safe haha
@@itsyagirlapesHaha yeah, that’s what always drew me to this channel and his vods in general.
He is our next @Coffeezilla
@@absqueued I mean, its not like every keebhead and their brother isnt complaining about something to do with keyboard on reddit these days.
rmendis is so well spoken and made so much of this very digestible. He clearly knows his shit backwards and forwards and gives me a lot of hope for the future of the hobby. Fantastic video
was going to say the exact same thing
rmendis is amazing, I've worked with him on so many trades.
It's wild how Geekhack basically stepped in like the Federal Reserve handling a collapsed bank.
Instead of punishing the people who suck, everyone now has to meet some arbitrary rule to be able to market with good intentions.. People always want to control everything, this hobby sucks these days..
@@CryoftheProphet You can't punish a dead company.
@@CryoftheProphet very much arbitrary wishful thinking...people want to control(moderate) the controlled(moderated) spaces, and people flock to these spaces because moderated environments are inherently more stable. Good luck working with an uncontrolled community
@@purplelord8531 the most successful economies happen with the least amount of regulation. That’s just reality. People want the freedom to do what they want.
Vetting people doesn’t do anything because the people who are scamming people have been running successful buys until they don’t.
The reason is that most people who end up running away with the money do it because eventually they re just in over their heads. You can’t predict when it’s going to happen and if you start trying to make rules, it’s just going to push the sales and innovation to the bigger corporations and the diversity and creativity will die along with smaller creators.
It’s stupid. Just look at geekhack. That place used to be the best place in the world for any and everything keeb related. Now.. not so much.. same with Rmk, now all you see is garbage boards, tacky setups and everything the hobby wasn’t suppose to be..
@@CryoftheProphet regulation is good for the consumer.
You guys did a great job breaking everything down without interrupting each other, I hope there is more vids like this. A lot of great points.
I have a feeling Rama works also mismanaged peoples money. A lot of their keyboards in group buys have been made in the past and yet it’s still taking them years to fulfill. In the meantime they’re selling random merchandise and barely any updates on their main products.
Same. I'm starting to regret giving them my money, though I (kinda?) understand the situation they're in. I'm definitely more educated now when it comes to group buy.
KATE keycaps buyer here 👋👋
purchased September 30, 2021. No actual updates I've seen in over a year.
RAMA is a fraud. Not usually the type of person to make these claims, but this is unbearable not getting any updates on these. This guy is selling CNC lighter cases, jumpsuits, hats, baseball bats, duck figurines, duck shoe covers for cameras, and old leftover keyboard stock but not fulfilling any of these KATE orders from 2021. Even has turned off Instagram comments as of late months because it's all people talk about in them.
@Taeha can you help shed light on this and bring it to attention? This guy used to be one of the biggest mech sellers
I saw the title, clicked in, and searched for keyword "Rama".
These vids are wicked awesome. Your voice is ASMR and It’s always nice to get news swirling around the community
Thank you for the support!
What an insightful conversation, and really pleasant to listen to in the background. I hope you do more of these!
Such an awesome conversation you can tell rmendis really cares about the community!
RAMA WORKS!
Please cover this disaster company. I still have money from two years ago tied up in their group buys and there's no hope of getting my money back. I want to contact the company doing their manufacturing but don't have the first clue where to start looking.
I'm still going through this video but I just wanted to take the opportunity to thank both you and rmendis for this discussion on this topic! It's been incredibly informative and rmendis's insight on this facet of the hobby should be enlightening to both newcomers and veterans on how we came to be in this predicament as far as GBs are concerned. Not only does this go into the pitfalls of this system the community has in place but it also discusses the reasoning behind why it's a sort of necessity in our hobby and also how GBs were originally done as passion projects for enthused individuals. Please feel free to do more long form discussion like this one Taeha it's very much appreciated!
Thanks for spreading info & looking out for us! Love this
This was a fantastic and well thought out discussion on the topic of GBs, the community, vetting of community figures, etc.
Really enjoyed watching this!! Thanks Taeha and rmendis!
Huge props to rmendis for doing such a thorough walk through of the Mechs & Co situation as well as the state of the hobby as a whole (in regards to GB’s). Also props to you Taeha for fostering this discussion with your platform and status in the hobby.
Great interview! I love the build videos as well as your more recent form of content.
Fantastic video. As a long time lurker, I wanted to create a YT account just to comment and say thanks for the work both you and rmendis put into this. I hope that people that have the mindset of "GB always bad/vendor profit always bad" will watch this video with an open mind and listen to what rmendis is saying.
Starting @39:10, I agree that educating and creating visibility would be fantastic!
love this kind of video. keep the work rolling sir
This was very educational. I actually had very little understanding of how group buys worked vendor-wise.
Thank you both for taking the time to make this.
Very insightlful, thank you for having rmendis speak his mind, his knowledge is so crucial to the community.
Big fan of this video style, informative and entertaining.
This was an absolutely FANTASTIC video. Thank you for doing this.
Thank you so much for the subtitles, super appreciated!
Great video, I like this style of content in the current atmosphere of the community.
I appreciate this conversation a ton. I was supposed to get GMK Earth Tones from Mechs & Co and I felt like we were soooo close to at least getting that one done... I'm just so sad about it. At the very least the community is coming together to recognize this as a problem and hopefully find some resolution. It gives me some peace that we can hopefully make things better.
Fantastic content! Thank you very much for the insight :)
Awesome video Taeha. One point of constructive criticism: Subtitles baked into the video are great, but they're even better when they're uploaded as a subtitle/closed caption file alongside your video so that people can turn them on/off, change their size, etc. through the TH-cam player.
Keep up the good work, looking forward to your next video :)
If you have ever done subtitles for a video you know how much time that takes.
Literally had to do one for a 32 minute video and it took me 5 hours in total.
@@ddontyy I mean, sure, but anything related to video production takes time. Also, they already had the captioning. Taking the time stamps from whatever method they used and placing it into an SRT file wouldn't take 5 hours, unless you're bad at it.
@@ddontyy I am aware that it takes a long time for subtitling, but Taeha has already done subtitles for the whole video, they're right there on the screen. My point was that if he is going to spend time subtitling it can prove more beneficial to the audience if it's delivered in a different format (via a file instead of being rendered on top of the video)
honestly like the way these look more than the youtube captions but thats just me
Really interesting content. Please keep them coming.
Amazing to see rmendis on here
Very insightful! I'd like to see the perspective from other vendors as well if possible! Thanks for the great content as always, Taeha!
wow, this was immensely insightful! would def be interested to see a hibi or osume spotlight in the future.
honestly it was very good being able to hear from voices like rmendis!
great video, enjoyed every second of it haha. rmendis truly is legendary
This was a GREAT video. Loved it. Hate group buys. Love the both of you.
Looking forward to listening to this after work. Hope you're doing well, sir! Thanks for the recent uptick in videos and streaming.
Thank you for the support!
Really well said!
amazing discussion with the legendary rmendis
Great video, and the embedded subtitles are amazing. Did you sit down and type all that?
This reminds me of AuraMech from Canada, hopefully more is done to give warning about vendors that are having issues
its sad what the hobby has become now, but I'm glad you and rmendis have this discussion regarding the situation. I think part of the problems also came from us (the buyers) who wants something which nobody knew how the end results would be after the group buy ended. We just pour in money to vendors carrying the keyset or keyboard kits which we wanted and hope it arrives on our doorstep, and don't really know what happens behind closed doors. Honestly I wish there were more transparency from manufacturers regarding how to group buy is going. Sometimes the manufacturers covering up the issues which in turn leaves vendors having to answer the buyers without any info. With GMKs case, there are just way too many keysets which they ran which some might still be in queue even after 2 years after the group buy ended. So all in all, I feel there should be more direct interactions between manufacturers, vendors and customers so that we're all on the same page. Also with so many products out now (yes that does include clones), why do we need more group buys lol? Maybe private GBs should be more of a thing where the risks are minimal, while pre orders should be the norm for most big vendors if they really want in on the profits.
Overall, just have fun and never get fomo on everything. I had to learn it the hard way and currently taking a rest from buying stuff in the keyboard hobby. Keyboards are expensive and I definitely have more than enough keyboards with me to last several generations... 😅
Been listening to this as I work, thank you so much for making this video. You know things are serious when the GH and Reddit mods form a coalition to tackle this.
I sincerely hope the community can move forward as a whole and be more transparent about best practices.
Very insightful
Great video!
This happened to me too with the Charue Design Supernova
This type of high quality informative content is really something that we need to see more of in the community. Thanks for the awesome video and bringing an awesome, knowledgeable guest to speak on the issue!
I like this format, very interesting topic and discussion. Good on you two for addressing the growing pains of the hobby. Really hoping you keep up with this type of content papa Taeha
This is a great topic to discuss, nice work Taeha
I've went down the mechanical keyboard rabbit hole back in 2011 when it really wasn't popular and there weren't many vendors selling mechanical keyboards. I think a year after is when I started seeing many group buys for mechanical keyboards that was originally conceived as a cost-effective method for enthusiasts to secure a keyboard at reduced prices. However, in recent times, this concept has been overshadowed by profit-driven motives, with group buys often not providing the cost savings they once promised. Instead of fostering a sense of community and mutual benefit, it seems that the original ethos of group buying has been diluted, leading to prices that aren't significantly lower than individual purchases.
Edit: Unfortunately I've been detached from the mechanical keyboard community for a very long time now, ever since I've noticed price discrepancies of mechanical keyboards sold by many different trusted international multi-channel retailing vendors. The prices for mechanical keyboards were significantly higher in the western market compared to the market in Asia.
Great long format video. So much useful insight to consider when navigating the current climate of the keyboard hobby. Perhaps this isn't as easily digestible for new hobbyists, but the content will definitely help me point newcomers in the right direction.
This was an extremely informative and interesting video. I love what you’re doing lately, Taeha. And great guest!!
Nice explanation of everything. My only gripe is the addict analogy; that’s not at all the same thing.
alternate title: Two guys to listen to while lubing up your switches
Thanks for this cool analysis from a knowledgeable trustworthy person.
taeha i love you
I just started the hobby this year and this video is incredibly informative and interesting! Thanks for putting this together Nathan!
woah you weren’t lying about grinding out youtube videos mr taeha!
I've never been so happy to be wrong about monthly uploads. Stoked to watch this dude.
LOLLL
What happened with Mechs & Co is one of the reasons I sparingly ordered from vendors bookmarked all my orders and checked regularly for vendor fulfillment updates. Even then it's still a gamble every time. A fun gamble.
This is a great Ted talk, ngl
This video alone is leagues better than soundtests and streams - everyone does that, no one is doing this (blacksimon being the only other one calling people out / talking about issues)
Ayyyy another blacksimon fan in the wild!
simon is definitely my favorite creator in the keyboard community and i definitely appreciate other long-form, in-depth content like this
2 years into KL-90 and I'm still waiting
It's nice to get more context on what's going on as a whole since the M&C debacle
Just found a Mechs & Co sticker while cleaning out my office... I guess I'll throw it in the trash lol. (After I use it to clean the cat hair off my shirt) 😛
43:00 It only seems risk free until someone sues or otherwise enforces liability of the person who took the money. A contract is formed at the exchange of value whether it's an individual or a business.. Nobody has tested the risk, so it feels risk free.
Wish there was this response with the rukia gb
Glad, as a newcomer, to hear that CK and NovelKeys are both reputable. I have a GB with CK and was worried tbh. NK also seems legit but then again I also thought M&C was legit and they turned out to not be, I had LITERALLY no clue and could easily have gotten burned as I was considering buying extras of the Lazurite set right before they collapsed. Had I, I bet they’d never have shipped. Either way, we def need more transparency and thank you for having this discussion on video for those of us who are new, and thank you both for your hard work trying to make it better for the future. A+ content right here
My man showed up with a PPT presentation. 😆
LMAO forreal though
46:50 Also with GMK, keycaps are made basically right before they are fulfilled, NOT when the order is placed. They have almost no risk until waiting until a few weeks before they start manufacturing to demand payment (yes some stuff has money like dyes, but the payment can be kicked down the road a bit in most cases, especially for customers with extremely large volumes) This might mean vendor X places 12 orders, and pays for them in full, order 13th comes around, they can't pay in it's entirety, but GMK thinks that's fine as they won't get to that order for another 8-12+ months, so it's fine if it takes a few.
we'd love to participate in setting a guideline for vendors with the community!
During the pandemic, I think early 2021, I joined my only two group buys. One keyboard, and one keycap set that I helped design novelties for, and I absolutely loved the process. It was super exciting, but also kind of wild to send several hundred dollars to random vendors, but around 1.5 years later I finally held a beautifully made custom keyboard in my hands that I still use every day and it was one of the best purchases I have made. I loved the community aspect and that things worked out so well, just based on trust. It's so sad to see things go south like this, but it's also not really surprising. I hope that the community can recover from this and get to a safer place where a lot of people can enjoy this great hobby.
Happy to be a loyal Mode Designs customer. They’ve always delivered on promises and have superb customer support. The amount of work they put into various things speaks for itself.
mode had my heart when i saw there was a syringe with 205g0 inside for my mode80. Still use the tools they provided today
this is very intresting, thanks for sharing. I have been MIA in the keyboard community, didn't know this was going on.
btw is that an Oliver typewriter in your background, which model? is it in working condition? I joined a typewriter community last year in Dec and now own 2 typewriters.
I don't know much about the subject, as I am still listening. The only kb I know about that has done this is the extremely praised Wooting (don't have one), but is this kind of about companies like them?
Dang. It really just makes you wonder "where are the adults in the room."
YO IS THAT THE RMENDIS
44:40 Osume does in stock sales and fwiw they're always sold out and essentially all my friends that have joined the hobby recently have osume sets, both because of the designs and because of the availability.
Great video!
Would love to have move of these kind of videos with people of the community.
That thumbnail 😂😂😂
I recently got into the keyboard hobby and I just pulled the trigger on my first group buy from cannon keys. I'm hoping it goes well as group buys are honestly a big barrier. The whole aspect is really sketchy... and I understand why they are a thing but there must be a better way.
Coming from the Japanese Figure hobby, we pre-order months in advance ALL THE TIME, and they are ALL fulfilled.
I am just not sure why we are still stuck with GB when pre-order is so much better.
Mechs & Co was my first ever group buy, i don't see myself ever buying one again
Keyboard journalism by Taeha 👀 I can get behind this.
Keep up the content spam I NEED IT ❤🔥.
haha im too trash for journalism but thank you!
@@TaehaTypes nah you are unto something with this format; specially with the monthly keeb news.
Definitely do more!
EDIT: 👀 Interviews like the one w/ Mike was fun too.
Great conversation & food for thought!
love these types of videos fam 💯
glad you enjoy them! thanks for the support
LETS GOOOOO 1 HOUR TAEHA TALKS + INTERVIEW
Major props to canon keys for saving my mechs and co terror below gb.
let’s go rmendis
the legend
Relegending himself for the next wave of hobbyists
Not done this yet but very interesting so far. thanks for making this
It's a long watch, but I do recommend it as the conversation was worth it!
Absolutely. Will be watching it through. Just wanted to pause and leave my comment before I forgot@@TaehaTypes
@@AnaerobicFermentation
Thank you for a very mature conversation of the topic. I also think this would be a good addition to most college level macroeconomic courses in terms of illustrating how these sort of things work.
good to see the hobby finally leveling out
been in/out of the hobby for 8 yrs....sucks shit like this still happens, basically growing paints into an emerging new market to mass consumption. great to see so much good stuff readily available! damn we old!
Project keyboard next up?? where is bingsu r2??
Doing The Lort's work out there with this interview, thanks for posting this!
I ordered a key set October 2019 and just got it delivered last week.😒
Okay like towards 47:10 talking about manufacture not policing etc.
I still think that manufactures still hold responsibility for their projects and they get to see who are the vendors and who they expect to get money from etc.
and I feel like it doesn't make sense that big company like GMK doesn't even check if they got paid from a vendor to continue making certain orders.
It would only make sense if GMK didn't catch the attention of companies like Mechs & Co. to become one of the vendors for keycap sets. And if GMK was recognized for orders only by other vendors exclusively.
Mykeyboard has issues as well btw, i am still expecting the GMK Jags set and on their discord the notion is "hold on till we sort out the situation, there is a cash flow issue"
I really hope they manage to float the boat, they have been solid till this year and probably the biggest vendor in the EU.
In the EU we have another issue as well, refunds are legal and eligible, so lots of ppl got tired of waiting for GMK for example to deliver and they asked for a cancelation and refund.
Now vendors are legally bound to issue the refund but have no cash to do so, or/and no cash to pay GMK for the rest of the MOQ of the sets...
Its a really bad situation, as vendors never actually had the capital or experience for a business that exploded to be so big in the past 2 years...
This is definitely a challenge for both vendors and consumers.
wait can anybody tell me if theyre coming back? i still need a whole set of tiramisu gmk and aegyptus deskmat. am i not going to get them?
There is a thing that can be used as cerficate and oversight. Its called ISO an compliance cerfication system.
One of the ISO certificat that might fit the bill is: ISO 37000:2021
It's interesting being from the "country of the ombudsman", Sweden. Pretty sure the group buy model would be illegal here lol, or at least the risk would be on the vendor not the consumer.
MaxGaming, which is like the only "vendor" in Sweden (they do more than just keyboards), run their business like any other online store, only doing in-stock and pre-orders (the same way you pre order a game for example).
Because they're a more mature business, it isn't strange for them to actually keep stock. They also sell things that are group buys, but THEY are the ones making the order and then selling it as a limited in-stock item.
An entire hour of Taeha? Yes please!
@@TaehaTypes I haven't attempted it yet LOL, been too busy to make the trip to the Credit Union and ask them about it.
I haven't quite finished the video, so maybe you address this (i will watch it all though), but how is a GB substantially different from a kickstarter campaign? if GBs raised their funds via kickstarter (or indiegogo or whatever), would it give them more legitimacy?
My first ever group buy was GMK terror below...
Taeha got me into the hobby btw. I was hooked right away. I shopped forever to build my first keyboard. Space 65, Zaku switches, and the GMK Terror Below; or so I thought. I've waited two years for my keycaps and still haven't gotten them. I was disappointed to say the least. I ended up getting Botanical R2 in the end. I'm happy with the build, but the Old Gods are sad.
Damn, don’t let Mech and co’s Greed break your love. It’s totally worth it.
@@clackety_or run and never look back while you still have a thing called a wallet
@@essensse resell value goes crazy