🧙 Maester Aemon's Secret Shame: The Fall of House Targaryen

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  • Maester Aemon in his old age dispenses wisdom and medical attention to the Night's Watch, but as a young man he did what so many Targaryens did: Chased dragons. He tried to catch them from dreams and return House Targaryen to the skies. Instead, he accidentally left them in ruin. Letters to Rhaegar, dreams of Daeron, and dragon eggs waiting to be born. It all ties back to Aemon Targaryen, the King who never was. Quotes read by Disputed Lands
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ความคิดเห็น • 275

  • @emiliocamachoerice6380
    @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 ปีที่แล้ว +181

    Also thanks for having crowfood daughter of the disputed lands reading it is the litsening equivalent of a masterfully cooked salt crust deer accompanied by shitake mushrooms

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      It was a real pleasure working with her, she's got a real talent for this kind of thing.

    • @emiliocamachoerice6380
      @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Joe Magician also for theories

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Emilio Camacho Erice Just wait until you hear hers

    • @Z_BoyPanduh
      @Z_BoyPanduh 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      These videos you've been making on a song of ice and fire are amazing and nostalgic. It's the only thing that brings attention and peace to my troubled days

    • @rubykayallmut6730
      @rubykayallmut6730 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@JoeMagician oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

  • @laurelsilberman5705
    @laurelsilberman5705 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    When Aemond says to Sam, “Egg! I dreamed I was old…” was an amazing moment in the show. How fascinating a theory you’ve put together here! I loved it!

  • @presidenttogekiss635
    @presidenttogekiss635 ปีที่แล้ว +265

    Master Aemon never getting to meet Danny is so sad to me. Not only because of his dream, but because it's the only family she had left, way better than her abusive brother.

    • @weaponx9728
      @weaponx9728 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      He met John snow

    • @izzad777
      @izzad777 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      @@weaponx9728 he didn't know about Jon's true parentage though. Sad but poetic.

    • @Tini-luke
      @Tini-luke ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@izzad777 he practically grew up at the citydella, he could found the book where Sam read about Lyanna and Rhaegar and found out about Jon.

    • @0ussama01
      @0ussama01 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Don't you dare speak ill of Viserys 🔥

    • @burtan2000
      @burtan2000 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      @@Tini-luke I think he knew. He knew Rhaegar well. He certainly paid attention to all that happened during Bobby's rebellion, and would've directly questioned the resulting swell of new brothers that arrived at the wall after the war's conclusion.
      Being so close to WF, being close to Benjen, he would know Lord Eddard, The Ned, well enough - at least by reputation - to find it highly unlikely that he'd father a bastard while leading campaigns. Ned wasn't some soldier or captain. He would've been the second in command of all the armies. He would be busy, not whoring about.
      We know this. It's likely Aemon would suspect it.
      He took a great interest in Jon. Tho, he would've done that regardless, considering the Watch's close ties to WF and the fact Jon's uncle is First Ranger, and the fact Jon and his wolf saved LC Mormont's life.
      i've come to believe that much and more was orchestrated by Baelish, and even more by Bloodraven. And that Benjen knew Jon's true parentage. And so did Aemon

  • @taylorgray6788
    @taylorgray6788 4 ปีที่แล้ว +268

    Recently heard a great theory that a copy of "Unnatural history" would be in Dorne. Baelor banned the book in the seven kingdoms, but Dorne was independent during his reign, they'd have had no reason heed his decree.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 ปีที่แล้ว +63

      Interesting! Adds some more stakes to what Dorne does along with Aegon's crown.

    • @theblancmange1265
      @theblancmange1265 3 ปีที่แล้ว +52

      It may be one of the books Doran gave his daughter. She thinks about one tome making dragons boring. Bart likely wasn't some a great writer.

    • @bartsullivan4866
      @bartsullivan4866 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      This is a great idea and makes perfect sense to me. Also in Bravos wouldn't they have some ancient libraries as well?

    • @bannedaccount540
      @bannedaccount540 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      This makes sense

    • @TheSaintinRed
      @TheSaintinRed ปีที่แล้ว +17

      @@theblancmange1265 this was exactly what I was thinking and I think a few other theories. Dorne is obviously less well known due to the double marriage bringing them into the realm. Arianne’s response that the tome makes dragons sound: “as interesting as newts” was an instant GRRM red herring. SHE might think it’s boring, but we the readers would likely feel different. Doran also told her she should have played Cyvasse against herself: “sometimes it is best to study a game before you play it”

  • @Argos-xb8ek
    @Argos-xb8ek 3 ปีที่แล้ว +235

    This is the saddest theory I've ever heard. I could totally see Aemon living everyday in shame and regret believing he had a hand in destroying House Targaryen when all he wanted to do was see his family safe and prosperous.

    • @tedsenhillman1207
      @tedsenhillman1207 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

      it wasn’t a hand in it. it was entirely his fault. he was smartest, most capable targ when they offered him the thrown. basically everyone who wasn’t trying to claim the throne, wanted him as king. even the maesters knew it and gave him their blessing to take the thrown and he didn’t. he could’ve at minimum helped Aegon rule, but refused, and then let egg sent bloodraven to the wall. the man single handedly ran the kingdom, in secret, for decades. he should be ashamed, he earned every bit of sadness and loneliness he felt.

  • @oliviacarter7193
    @oliviacarter7193 2 ปีที่แล้ว +290

    He saddest part for me, is the fact that at one point ALL THE TARGS were dead, except for Aemon. He knew his brothers and sisters and nephews and nieces were all gone. He was the only one left. But he still couldn’t go home bc he swore an oath…

    • @bartsullivan4866
      @bartsullivan4866 2 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      He had to have hope when he heard Dany had survived.

    • @johnmartinez4381
      @johnmartinez4381 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      He had to stay at the wall for Jon

    • @AS-wo8qm
      @AS-wo8qm ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Jon did the same...

    • @corbettblackman6322
      @corbettblackman6322 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@AS-wo8qm and John also ended as the last targ😂

    • @lisaseatle4965
      @lisaseatle4965 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think he knew about Jon

  • @j946atFIVEFOUR88AA
    @j946atFIVEFOUR88AA 4 ปีที่แล้ว +89

    Aemon never getting to meet Dany and her dragons is so sad

    • @justineharper3346
      @justineharper3346 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      It legit breaks my heart

    • @cedricthomas4867
      @cedricthomas4867 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Aemon on his deathbed , lamented about the 3 heads ..

    • @cedricthomas4867
      @cedricthomas4867 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Ok so how were they hatching eggs in cradles?

    • @cedricthomas4867
      @cedricthomas4867 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Marwyn has the blood.....

    • @cedricthomas4867
      @cedricthomas4867 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Maggie the frog was clear...

  • @WhiteSargent
    @WhiteSargent 6 ปีที่แล้ว +99

    Good lord this is outstanding - I feel like I’ve just read another GRRM novel by watching this. Thank you very much!

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      All credit to the great and powerful turtle, I'm just putting together the pieces he scattered around. It makes Aemon's story much more emotional on reread

  • @cindykramirez
    @cindykramirez 6 ปีที่แล้ว +118

    Wow! I had struggled with understanding Daeron the Drunkard's impact on the current story until now. This makes PERFECT sense. And a great insight into Maester Aemon as well. Thanks!

    • @luvprue1
      @luvprue1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Daeron the drunkard is mentioned in what book? Is he talked about in the world of ice and fire?

    • @tonyaniehaus3296
      @tonyaniehaus3296 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I know he's mentioned in some of the Dunk & Egg stories. I read the three short as a composite in the book a knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

    • @luvprue1
      @luvprue1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@tonyaniehaus3296 I have the knight of the seven kingdom, but I haven't read it yet. So I'm going to give it a read to learn more about other characters mentioned but not mentioned in game of thrones book series.

    • @josephpotter7776
      @josephpotter7776 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@luvprue1
      Super good read

    • @condor237
      @condor237 ปีที่แล้ว

      Daeron vs Halaena

  • @Argos-xb8ek
    @Argos-xb8ek 4 ปีที่แล้ว +100

    This is heartbreaking poor Daeron was forced to see the destruction of his family without any way to stop it.

  • @allyriastark3508
    @allyriastark3508 5 ปีที่แล้ว +63

    I love how Daemon II Blackfyre handled his dragon dreams better than the Targaryens.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 ปีที่แล้ว +44

      Slightly, he still tried to crown himself and then got caught by bloodraven and put in chains until his death. But yeah marginally better than Summerhall or drinking Wildfire.

  • @kragary
    @kragary 6 ปีที่แล้ว +84

    I wonder if the event that made Rhaegar believe in prophecies could have been Tyrion's birth. The whole realm talked about the monster that was born to Tywin Lannister, according to Oberyn. A monstrous birth also preceded the return of dragons, so it could be something that is mentioned in the prophecies. It might be too late in the timeline, though, as Rhaegar would have been 14 at the time.

    • @Caraxes_RoguePrince
      @Caraxes_RoguePrince 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      kragary lol

    • @elliottwilliams9221
      @elliottwilliams9221 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Tyrio isn’t a Targaryen if that’s where you’re going, grrm killed that half cocked theory

    • @kragary
      @kragary ปีที่แล้ว

      @@elliottwilliams9221 Well, he wouldn't be a Targaryen, he'd be a Hill. But the stuff I was talking about in this comment doesn't depend on him being Aerys' son, unless there really is a prophecy about Rhaego that specifically says that the monstrous birth happens to a Targ. But if it's more vague, like "a monster will be born and then a king is burned on a pyre and then the dragons come back", then I could see Rhaegar mistaking Tyrion for the first sign, whoever his parents are.

    • @thekrakensdaughter
      @thekrakensdaughter ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@elliottwilliams9221 how did grrm killed that theory?

  • @Ahrimanh86
    @Ahrimanh86 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Joe I am a fan of dozens of ice and fire TH-camrs, from Preston and whycreate to newer guys like fantasyhaven and kevin pendragon. I've seen hundreds of videos, ravenously devouring them... This is easily the best one of them all. I had failed to realize the story sprinkled among the 10 books until I saw this. It's incredible, and thank you.

  • @rheeventures8144
    @rheeventures8144 6 ปีที่แล้ว +53

    He could have left the dreams on Dragonstone where Daaron was Prince of Dragonstone and Aemon was his Maester. Rhaegar was Prince of Dragonstone also and lived there. What if that's where he found them or maybe they were left For Him...

  • @laura7anne
    @laura7anne 4 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    "She is Azor Ahai returned... death itself will bend the knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn." Sounds like the... day king/queen (instead of nights king) and their horde of others. A summer that never ends/night that never ends. Azor Ahai doesn't sound like a good dude.

  • @blackeyedlily
    @blackeyedlily 6 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    Excellent video! Very astute to connect Aemon and his brother Daeron with the prophecies. I’ve never seen this anywhere else and certainly never made the connection myself. But listening to everything you put together here makes a lot of sense. I look forward to your upcoming podcast whether I get to listen live, or later on, I’m sure it will be very interesting.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Right on Lily :) that stream is gonna be a lot of fun and informative. They're gonna fill in the blanks and then some connecting Aemon into the larger story being told about Targaryens and visions.

  • @pangea439
    @pangea439 6 ปีที่แล้ว +35

    Thanks for bringing us such unexplored material. Fresh air is very welcome because sometimes I feel almost everyone is repeating same stuff and you are always original.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I strive for originality, for better or for worse

  • @taylorgayhart9497
    @taylorgayhart9497 2 ปีที่แล้ว +45

    I think Aemon had dragon dreams too, his just weren’t as clear or often as his brother. For me when he says “I still remember Sam, I see their shadows on the ice, hear the crack of leather and wings, feel their hot breathe.” is proof, because he never would have seen a dragon. More specifically, I think the line “see their shadows on the snow” he is seeing the future when Dany brings her dragons north.

    • @esraduran5399
      @esraduran5399 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Or grrm ment he sees dragon shodow on the (jon) snow perhaps?

    • @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195
      @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Agree. Dany and Tyrion also dream of dragons. George never tells us they’re prophecy-future seeing kind of dreams, but we know from Dany’s dreams that they come true. She does become a dragon and she flies. On Drogon though, but dreams (like prophecies) are never literal

  • @arnoldtabor3767
    @arnoldtabor3767 5 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    If Aemon had ,stepped into a king role, house targaryen would still be around ,seen as he was wise, just ,kind ,and overall just a decent man.
    He'd have been another king Jaeherys

    • @tdraghi70
      @tdraghi70 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Your most likely right....Really sad thought. I never considered any of this before I found joe magician. I blame him for all of this.

    • @Willz828
      @Willz828 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Unless someone killed all of those targyrans on purpose to get arys the 2nd on the throne and eventually birth jon snow

    • @brandocalrissian3294
      @brandocalrissian3294 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Willz828 yeah, bloodraven did that work. Though I don't believe Jon in a targaryen in the books.

    • @sarahbutler9902
      @sarahbutler9902 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@brandocalrissian3294 yes in the books Jon is really Ned’s bastard with an unknown women. Rhaegar’s kids were killed in the rebellion he never had a son with lyanna stark

  • @himynameisrev
    @himynameisrev 6 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    The artwork in your videos is without peer.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Sanrixian's art is probably too good for the videos I use it on haha

    • @brandonblackfyre5783
      @brandonblackfyre5783 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yeah sanrixan is a beast

    • @blocka4
      @blocka4 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      the art is great! I am on my 3rd round reading the series and having a community of people to talk about very specific things in huge, rich source. I dont know anyone who can really nerd it out with me with ASOIF. So again to have all the fan content. That spark that happens uncommonly when the right book, comes at the right time and now I just drop all other books, and tv shows.

  • @Killerina
    @Killerina 6 ปีที่แล้ว +25

    Loved This! I used to think that there was a possibility that Ashara + Ned could equal Dany because Daeron and Aemon had a Dayne mother. I thought maybe that a Dayne and Targ union produced a dragon dreamer. Daemon II didn't fit this idea though. I always wondered if Bloodraven sent either Aemon or Rhaegar messages through dreams after he became the last greenseer. I hope there are more dragon dreamers in "Fire & Blood" and that we learn more about the prophecies that the Targs were so interested in.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Killerina my pet theory is that the reason Mormont takes care of his own raven and not Aemon or Clydas is that Aemon knows it is Bloodraven and refuses to care for it. Probably annoyed at br for helping convince him to go to the Wall along with abandoning the Night's Watch.

    • @tracymetherell8744
      @tracymetherell8744 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I agree! That Raven is Bloodraven!

  • @goon143
    @goon143 6 ปีที่แล้ว +22

    That was a really good presentation .Poor Aemon .

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I feel awful for him, George wrote a really powerful tragedy for Aemon. Makes me wish I could've hugged him on the Cinnamon Wind. He only wanted to help the best way he could.

  • @natedorney7032
    @natedorney7032 2 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Also among Aemon's honor guard were members of "The Raven's Teeth", the company of archers loyal to blood raven who were armed with werewood bows and arrows.

  • @rheeventures8144
    @rheeventures8144 6 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    One Another Great video! Second I have in my mind always thought of Aemon and Rhaegar as being close and I can see Rhaegar spending a lot of time in the library at Castle Black. I would! 😁 That could always mean that he and Lyanna could have known each other quite a bit more than we know. I can see Aemon and Rhaegar just being very close too. He would be my favorite relative I would think if I were either of them. They just seem to mesh well. I would love to see them together even a flashback awwee I love Aemon ♥️🔥

  • @anabento5029
    @anabento5029 6 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    I have read something yesterday that might helped Daenarys haching the eggs. Feast for Crows, Arya, the Kindly man says something to justify why is rare having women no-one: "Women bring life to the world"

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Interesting, I haven't seen that before. Cool idea!

    • @TheDisputedLands
      @TheDisputedLands 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Yes, I agree women might have a special "magic". Ive mentioned this on twitter when people were talking about why Qyburn needed women with his experiments in resurrecting Robert Strong :-)

    • @anabento5029
      @anabento5029 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, I remember this. I agree with you "TheDisputedLands Thanks

    • @lynnjohanssen6552
      @lynnjohanssen6552 6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Ana Bento Do you also think Mirri Maz Durrs singing helped?

    • @anabento5029
      @anabento5029 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Definitely, because Dani is not fireproof.

  • @sesquipedalophobic
    @sesquipedalophobic 6 ปีที่แล้ว +73

    I think Maester Aemon merely chose the Night's Watch because it was irrevocable, which meant his decision to abdicate his birthright would be irreversible, and he couldn't be use by other houses or politics to undermine Egg.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      He'd been offered before to have his vows excused by the High Septon, he knows it's not permanent. Could also go back to the Citadel if he wanted to.

    • @figjam9530
      @figjam9530 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@JoeMagician in my headcanon Aemon said his Nightswatch vows before a wierwood tree with Bloodraven. so the High Septon would have no authority to excuse that vow. Bloodraven, at least, definitely said his vows before the Old Gods. his Blackwood blood was too strong for it to be otherwise.

    • @guil7290
      @guil7290 ปีที่แล้ว

      Abdicating your birthright is already irrevocable, and besides the maester's vows are already very similar to the Night's Watch's vows

    • @esraduran5399
      @esraduran5399 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think he chose the wall becouse of its library. There is a theory that wall has the biggest library in weateros after the oldtown. Considiring it ia older that wall, and also as oldtown peoplw come to wall from oll around the westeros. And wall has no king, so no book has been burnt becose of king order. And wall also naver burnt or sack by enemy like oldtown so it should have untoched librrlary. Also night watch was not as bad as today so.

  • @lewdogsk8er
    @lewdogsk8er 3 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    As always, your knowledge and analysis is amazing. Amandas soothing voice is amazing as well. One problem, Barristan’s testimony was speculation but what IS known is that Rhaegar appeared ONE MORNING... which means he just got done dreaming, not reading. Just my takeaway.

    • @condor237
      @condor237 ปีที่แล้ว

      Maybe he had the ice and fire dream like Viserys

    • @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195
      @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      don’t tell me you never stayed up the whole night reading until you suddenly realised it was dawn?

  • @kaarlimakela3413
    @kaarlimakela3413 5 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I love my Egg-man ...
    I appreciate the effort involved in locating, coordinating and presenting a fuller, more compelling picture of Aegon V ... makes me want to put down my tv remote and pick up a book!

  • @kevinvest9693
    @kevinvest9693 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Who believes that the bleeding star is dawn covered in blood at jon snows birth?

  • @Z_BoyPanduh
    @Z_BoyPanduh 6 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    These videos you've been making on a song of ice and fire are amazing and nostalgic. It's the only thing that brings attention and peace to my troubled days

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Glad I could help, feel better bud

  • @devanman7920
    @devanman7920 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Two things to say.....GRRM is a fucking genius its actually mad the depth in these books also your videos are great thank you

  • @tylerbarrett6652
    @tylerbarrett6652 2 ปีที่แล้ว +26

    You know... there are only 2 citadels mentioned in the series.... the one in Old Towne and the one on DRAGONSTONE. I'm still holding out hope for a hidden cache of Targaryen books in the vaults hidden or not in or below the citadel on Dragonstone.

    • @blue-pi2kt
      @blue-pi2kt ปีที่แล้ว

      Wouldn't they, the Targaryens who naturally hid them in Dragonstone know of this?

  • @monaradu5165
    @monaradu5165 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    This is one of the best arguments on how prophecy propagated into Targaryens from one generation to another. If not the best. ❤️

  • @thefolsta1
    @thefolsta1 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Just found this vid. Very well done.

  • @leahlemieux
    @leahlemieux 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    a really good video. I suppose on possible ingredient missing regarding Rhaegar, is that he may have been gleaning yet more prophecies from that woods witch, the Ghost of high heart, when he continually visited the ruins of Summerhall alone....

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Leah Lemieux also a great possiblity, he could've been working on multiple sources. It's said he likes visiting the ruins of summerHall. Also I like the idea that the song Rhaegar played at Harrenhal that entranced Lyanna was the Song of Ice and Fire that he learned from the Ghost of High Heart. it's also probably not a coincidence that Tom of Sevenstreams pays the GoHH with harp playing. Rhaegar being a master of that instrument is glaring in that contact.

    • @lynnjohanssen6552
      @lynnjohanssen6552 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Joe Magician do you think the song is a spell? Mirri Maz Durr sang spells and talked of magic songs. There are the "singers/children" also who we know use spells and magic and in AGOT it says, "Old Nan says the children knew the songs of the trees, that they could fly like birds and swim like fish and talk to the animals. She says that they made music so beautiful that it made you cry like a little baby just to hear it."

  • @danielwilkes1251
    @danielwilkes1251 5 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Sir!!! You just blew my mind!!! What a depth you've uncovered to a character who was already one of my favorites.

  • @hfwrose6797
    @hfwrose6797 6 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Great Video! I can't wait for for the live stream. The upcoming lineup of LML, Crowfood's Daughter, Aziz, and yourself, may be my favourite. You all play well off of each other and add to the thought process. It's nice to see such chemistry without anyone having to upstage or talk anyone else down.

  • @gperlman1
    @gperlman1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    So is it coincidence that King Baelor I tried to destroy Barth's writings when these writings would eventually inspire Master Aemon and Egg towards the tragedy of Summerhall? Or, is there a link? Did Baelor have vague prophecy dreams that led him to pursue some nutty ideas for how to save his family (if no one reads Barth, then my family line will be safe; stopping Targ incest marriage; new sept on Visenya's hill, etc)?

    • @TheDisputedLands
      @TheDisputedLands 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      gperlman1 be sure to catch the livestream. This will be discussed! Baelor the blessed was also said to have visions and he also attempted to hatch dragons.

    • @gperlman1
      @gperlman1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      OK!

  • @jhherkert
    @jhherkert 5 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I’m sorry, but I am in absolute agreement until you come to the point of what inspired Rhaegar to prepare himself for the Great War to come. Rhaegar much preferred books and harps to swords, so to me it would make the most sense for him to have been reading about his ancestors of legend (the valorous histories of Dunk & Egg?) when he found the court records from when Jenny of Oldstones brought the Ghost of High Heart for her prophecy. Putting together the connection between Oldstones and "High halls of the kings who are gone" from the song (like Robb), it’d make sense to write the only living relative of King Aegon - Maester Aemon - for answers about what really happened at Summerhall.

  • @oinitapniwreg7658
    @oinitapniwreg7658 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Love to see Rhaegar talk to maester Aemon about the a song of ice and fire

  • @rc59191
    @rc59191 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    It's fascinating how a large family like the Targaryens could get wiped out. All those sons, brothers, cousins, nieces, you'd think all the ones that married into other houses would of survived unless Robert killed them too.

    • @theDavitos
      @theDavitos 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      that is what cause the fall... they spend so much time to hold the blood in one family instead of using it to build connections like others family and also they didnt spread their bloodline that much into others family but sure Robert was of Targaryen blood and so is Velaryon , martell also , the others were mostly male marry into , Blackwood , hightower , dayne , Arryn , oldstone , Rogare , tyrosh , dondarrion but problem is that they didnt marry their female line that much into other family so their line didnt spread outside the Targaryen.
      you want to know what family has Targaryen blood line from female side then its Arryan & Velaryon were more of an close loop , Corbray , Hightower , Manwoody , Plumm , Penrose , Baratheon
      Also lot of their seeds ended up to die in end... blackfyre was one of them.

    • @omarbabakarkhail
      @omarbabakarkhail ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Technically they did survive through Robert if we are to believe the show. Gendry is his bastard, and Robert’s own grandmother was a Targaryen, in addition to the rest of his bloodline basically being bastard Targs. Robert and Rhagar were second cousins.
      Jon is the son of Rhaegar. Both of them survive the show, and we know the ending of the show is more than 60% accurate, so I guess the Targaryens aren’t fully wiped out.

    • @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195
      @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      We also have Velaryons that married with Targs the most, Arryns also have Targ blood, Cersei keeps saying how that guy who stole her ships looks exactly like Rhaegar.. Dany thinks about Quentin having dragon blood, Brown Ben Plum is said to have it too, Daynes married with Targs (I think maester Aemon’s morher was a Dayne?) and these familise kept marrying cousins and second cousins. Unfortunately many times women died when at birth with a Targaryen baby and they themselves not being Targaryen so that helped them die out.
      There’s some theories that to bring out the dragonblood and hatch a dragon there has to be a pregnant female Targaryen present and last few generations had mostly boys

  • @efjay3183
    @efjay3183 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That is a really nice background drawing.

  • @Cardan011
    @Cardan011 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Aemon is my favorite character both in novels and tv series

  • @ormurin6441
    @ormurin6441 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    So glad i came across this channel. Loved every video ever since.

  • @skganno7771
    @skganno7771 6 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    A great piece of Enjoement!

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      That sweet McWizard content

  • @Arcenus237J
    @Arcenus237J ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This video has a potent nostalgia. Looking back from Aemon's point of view is disheartening and nostalgic, specially when he comments about going to help Daenerys.

  • @chrisbrown18andup
    @chrisbrown18andup 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Brothers been making videos almost 5 years. So glad your channel is gaining traction post HOTD!

  • @robstewartstewart98
    @robstewartstewart98 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Aemon and Egg's stories are so utterly tragic ☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️☹️😭😭😭😭☹️☹️☹️

  • @burtan2000
    @burtan2000 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "Signs and Portents" - Id forgotten that title! That phrase! But it's used in House of the Dragon by Daemon when describing Viserys' strong belief in, well.. in signs and portents.
    Some took it to mean that Viz had NOT told Daemon the secret of House Targ.
    Maybe.
    I think it MIGHT mean that Viz DID tell him, but he brushed it off as the ramblings of his weak, bookish, and odd brother.

  • @WarriorGirl_113
    @WarriorGirl_113 5 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Imho.. you are absolutely right Joe! Aemon.. tells Sam he should be there with her.. showing her the way (he knows "all" she needs to know to show her the way)

  • @shannond7437
    @shannond7437 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is a great one! I’m on my rewatch tour 😊

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I should probably talk about it more :)

    • @anne.enrique
      @anne.enrique ปีที่แล้ว

      Same here, and this channel is helping me put the pieces together. Ty!!

  • @conniesuper9892
    @conniesuper9892 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    You two do great work together! Loved this!Thank you!!

  • @Thaistickthai
    @Thaistickthai 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    For ur next trick can you teach that chick to pronouce day·ron! Not dare·e·on!

    • @kerrieohanlon878
      @kerrieohanlon878 ปีที่แล้ว

      They're both pronouncing maekor wrong, it's pronounced miker not maker

  • @ulricjude
    @ulricjude ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Top, top video. Love the reasoning and speculation. Not reaching too far. Subscribed!

  • @TheInfamousThey305
    @TheInfamousThey305 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I absolutely love your videos.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Thank you! I absolutely love this comment

  • @zacharypurcell
    @zacharypurcell 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Great video, well argued (and narrated)!

  • @vabarca
    @vabarca 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Really great video! Thank You!

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thank you for watching :)

  • @blocka4
    @blocka4 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    So I have a question. We know wargs can have a "2nd life" like 6 skins. When Bran asked what going to happen to him Bloodraven said something like "Its time for you to become me" So now Im confused who is really the ghost in the shell.
    The show and the book might have the same arch. Any one have and ideas?
    Good episode bte. Congrats.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Thank you Joe! Some people think that Bloodraven is going to take Bran's body. I think what BR means is that by being connected to the weirwood, he is just one of millions and millions lives and experiences. If you think about it as a math problem, BR is mostly the weirwood network. So by filling the role, Bran is surrendering a lot of his personality to be a part of the greater whole and will have more in common with BR as most of their minds are the same collective. It's a tough question!

    • @blocka4
      @blocka4 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Well it seems like has already proven not only is he willing to take risks, disobedient, lies and never aware of anything except his own sufferings. I give him a break because he just acting like a 13 year old would. But I wouldnt give him keys to my car. I dont want to spoil anything so I wont go into detail. It doesnt take a greenseerer take tell that is going to be messy.

    • @lynnjohanssen6552
      @lynnjohanssen6552 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Joe Kilroy I agree!

  • @AminTheClub
    @AminTheClub 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Incredible work man. Just listening to it is so soothing. Great sound track and theories. More like this would be amazing!

  • @victoriasantoro6692
    @victoriasantoro6692 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think Azor Ahai and Prince that Was Promised are totally different in our story..Azor Ahai may be other hero and the Prince That Was Promised other hero that fight in the same time during the Long Night.

  • @made-line7627
    @made-line7627 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Daenerys will be bloody stoked when "even death itself" bends the knee.

  • @PatriotResearchGal
    @PatriotResearchGal ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This makes so much sense. 3 dragons = Dany, Jon, and Bloodraven/Three Eyed Raven. The inverse of the conqueror: a woman and two men. One trio put the realm under Targaryen dynasty. The second trio will free the realm from the long night.
    Targs truly are the song between Ice (long night) and fire (Doom of Valyria).
    Given that dragons get their power from volcanoes and and blood magic. I wonder if the house words is a play on words misheard: fire IN blood.

  • @bucky56laboy
    @bucky56laboy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    He heated the catspaw dagger and read the song of ice and fire b4 little finger stole it

  • @domhuckle
    @domhuckle 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great video, keep up the deep dives. Winter is coming

  • @unclebuddha
    @unclebuddha 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Great video. Concise informative and entertaining. Full package you've got my sub and many more views to come. Thanks.

  • @TheVoided666
    @TheVoided666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Dude, I think you gained 10k subs in a week! You are an inspiration.

  • @tangerinesky1293
    @tangerinesky1293 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very well thought out video! Really man amazing work. Love everything about this!

  • @ClintSprayberry
    @ClintSprayberry 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Sweet another Joe Magician video!

  • @johnmontag
    @johnmontag 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've listened to this, along w your other video's like this, a minimum of 10 times..... They are 💎!
    Please make more like this and less live streams!

  • @annklavano
    @annklavano 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Very interesting. Had not thought through the various relationships.

  • @Heenaramus
    @Heenaramus 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great content-nice coverage of something and somebody we don’t hear enough about.

  • @emiliocamachoerice6380
    @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    One thing about prophecies is that many people fit it, for example in Judaism there's the maschiasch an spiritual leader descended from David's on his father line now I'm not Jewish so I'm probably not the maschiasch but my father does descend from David two times

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Definitely, it's all so difficult to actually parse. The Baelor Breakspear vision itself, getting from what Daeron saw to what happened is extremely hard. I don't blame Aemon for getting it wrong, because how do you get it right? but most people it seems like know better than to try.

    • @emiliocamachoerice6380
      @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Joe Magician that's why I get mad with some of the fandom for hating aegon for being fake, he is grrm criticism to feudalism being the answer to varys riddle he is the shadow on the wall
      It doesn't matter who he is but who people in the story think he is

    • @emiliocamachoerice6380
      @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Joe Magician especially considering most of us wouldn't be the chosen one

  • @amberw.1701
    @amberw.1701 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    daeron: dragon aeron

  • @UnholyGhost89
    @UnholyGhost89 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Plot twist! (Hear me out here!)
    Maybe Aerys II aka the mad King was a dreamer too?

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think so too, in my video about Summerhall I make that argument

  • @arvindraj723
    @arvindraj723 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Subscribed to your channel after the larys strong video. But the audio quality of almost all the older videos make them painful to listen. Would be great if you can improve on that for the older videos.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sorry I can't really. For a lot of them, I don't have the original audio. And TH-cam doesn't let me swap out audio or video for old videos. I'd have to remake them.

  • @legitoutfit
    @legitoutfit 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    ! SPOILER FOR THE END OF DANCE! 27:15 is that what the faceless man in the citadel is after? The Faceless Men started as slaves in the Valyrian Freehold and therefore resent Valyria(ns). Could this book tell him how to quicken the demise of Dany's dragons? I think the Maesters planned the Dance years in advance and this book could have been their source?!

  • @madambutterfly1997
    @madambutterfly1997 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    did Aemon read an Elder Scroll? if he read something he shouldnt have and lost his sight as a result, it must be an Elder Scroll

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It's unclear why he went blind, I think it was more thematic than magical. George decided he would to fit his story and influences.

  • @dark_fire_ice
    @dark_fire_ice 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    When did Aemon go blind? Depending on when, then someone else knows of their correspondence

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sometime between Robert's rebellion and before the start of ASOIAF I'd guess.

    • @TheWatcher802
      @TheWatcher802 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@JoeMagician Aemon says he was already blind during Robert's rebellion in AGOT Jon VIII

  • @rheeventures8144
    @rheeventures8144 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    👏👏👏👏👏👏 Thanks that was great guys!

    • @conniesuper9892
      @conniesuper9892 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Rhee Venjenz you're great,Rhee😙💟

  • @allyshewan3282
    @allyshewan3282 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    might be an incredibly stupid thought but what if Rhaegar, Viserys and Dany were supposed to be the three heads of the dragon?
    If Rhaegar had just chilled and not got it on with Lyanna could the 3 of them as siblings have been the correct group?
    Cause Rhaegar is described as pretty great, maybe Viserys was only an ass because of the way he grew up on the run and Dany may have done ok growing up in kings landing.

  • @paulbarry3400
    @paulbarry3400 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I listened to this years ago, but it popped up in my feed again just now. OMG! Has there ever been a video on prophesy that was more prophetic? Very impressive work, even more impressive now.

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The gift can be difficult to manage

  • @stevesmith-dr8bg
    @stevesmith-dr8bg ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The storytelling way you present the fictional history from the dreams to Deanartys stirs interest the story. Magnificent!!! My only disappointment was the abrupt cutting off of the video.

  • @racorker
    @racorker 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Amazing analysis. Thank you!

  • @duru2882
    @duru2882 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I mean only; Targarians, Valarions, Celtigars, Carstarks, a few Maesters, and the DragonKeepers can Speak,Read, and Write Old Valaerion!!

  • @tonyaniehaus3296
    @tonyaniehaus3296 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is the type of video which makes you so great! Thanks Matt!

  • @riiinarose
    @riiinarose 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video just stumbled upon it fascinating theory….. however I’d kindly disagree with you thinking this all started with Aemon wanting to help “discover” what was plaguing Daeron and his dreams.
    He knew…a good handful of people in his family knew. They are called “Dragon Dreamers/Dreams” and a handful of Targaryens were one.
    The entire Targaryen legacy begins with Daenys The Dreamer……. her foreseeing the destruction of Valyria you know the story ……. It’s the gift/curse she passed on.
    Targaryens were aware of themselves being dreamers and knew they were few in far between… I don’t think Aemon or any others weren’t aware that Daeron was a dreamer.
    To be fair I do understand this was posted a while ago 😅 so some of your thoughts and ideas might have changed

  • @sheillanyakato2153
    @sheillanyakato2153 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow awesome × awesome = Amazing to think upon

  • @duru2882
    @duru2882 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Wouldn’t the messages from Aemon to Rhaegar, be in Old Valaryon! Not too many people could read those letters, they both were learned and paranoid, it makes sense (maybe even a Valaryon Code that only they would understand)!!!

  • @lordgiantsbane
    @lordgiantsbane 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Am I the only one who wishes he’d just read the book excerpts himself? Every time she says Daeron I shudder. There’s not enough letters in the name to be pronounced as Day-reeon. I wonder if Daemon is just Damian to her? 😅

  • @williamst.romain7393
    @williamst.romain7393 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In one of Preston Jacobs' videos on Marianne Martell he suggests that a copy of Septon Barth's book is in Dorne. You think it might end up in Dany's hands?

  • @84ceasar
    @84ceasar 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

  • @forlornvaalan7630
    @forlornvaalan7630 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Id say trying to honor enemy gods probably did half the work in fucking everything up

  • @carlitoking8473
    @carlitoking8473 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    While contemplating death, Aemon wonders if he will see his sisters and their children. That implies his sisters had children. Could there be others out there with Targaryen blood besides the female Blackfyre line?

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Yes absolutely! Maybe George will fill that in for future Dunk and Egg stories.

    • @carlitoking8473
      @carlitoking8473 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@JoeMagician or maybe Varys is one of them?

  • @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195
    @hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I actually like that one change that the tv show HotD added about Aegon’s dream/prophecy. It makes a lot of sense that something like that would be passed from one Targaryen to another to always remind them that the realm must be kept united under their reign because a greater war with the Others is coming. And then that fanatic Baelor the “blessed” stopped the tradition and later generatioms had to discover it on their own

  • @PabloAlvestegui
    @PabloAlvestegui 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    WOW! - The Stranger is GRRM - #mindblown

    • @JoeMagician
      @JoeMagician  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      He is the God of Death, the Many Faced God. It's really funny when you substitute "George" for anytime someone talks about the Gods.

    • @PabloAlvestegui
      @PabloAlvestegui 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      By the old George and the New! You're right, it is funny lol

  • @shortbuspimp
    @shortbuspimp 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    "all those that fight for her will be reborn" sounds like they will be wighted

  • @Mink-yu8nu
    @Mink-yu8nu ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My favourite Targaryen! Thank you for this!

  • @buntun3670
    @buntun3670 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    another great channel on the story! I'm glad we can enjoy the story for what it is and not for how it can be used to enforce our own political agenda (sorry I was following a toxic channel where the story is viewed with an extremist political lens)

  • @theDavitos
    @theDavitos 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    i do wonder what Aemon thought about when his family died out and he was the last one about the many dreams of Targaryen werent true.. No white Walkers , no dragons to come back , no more Targaryen in Iron seat and all that time spend chasing dreams that will never come true.

  • @elsamariahertervig6171
    @elsamariahertervig6171 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am so simple, I assumed the three headed dragon were Daenerys three dragons, I guess she is not the prince/ss that was promised, at least not on the show. She did break the wheel for now and en the coming darkness, even though she went mad, her madness was hinted at many times, she always choses violence and she believes she and she alone is the highest power, the judge, jury and executioner. Balance is never a constant state, there is no good without evil.