You Don't Need 'Pro' Level Wiring....Do You?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 มิ.ย. 2024
- While we probably all love scrolling through Instagram feeds full of fully sealed motorsport wiring harnesses featuring ultra-expensive Autosport connectors, the reality is that this sort of harness might be overkill for YOUR application, let alone your budget.
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Alternatively, it might be exactly what you need, or even be something that gives you practice with tools and materials you otherwise wouldn't in your day-to-day career.
In this webinar we’ll discuss the differences between a club level and pro level harness, what materials and costs are involved, and find out how you choose one over the other while still having the focus of a reliable harness for your application.
We'll also quickly discuss why 'Mil Spec' or Milspec is not really a great description of anything without further information and a quick run down on concentric twisting noting while it is used in some levels of motorsport it isn't used exclusively in all levels of motorsport, although twisted pairs certainly are.
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TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Introduction
0:25 - Why we don't exclusively use the term Mil-Spec
1:40 - You don't need to spend thousands of dollars
2:25 - Factory vs motorsport harness
10:40 - Wire
15:00 - Sheathing
20:05 - Boots
24:00 - Concentric twisting
31:05 - Tools
37:00 - Time
38:40 - Cost
41:50 - Serviceability
43:45 - Questions
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TAGS:
#highperformanceacademy #wiring #prowiring #clubwiring #motorsporwiring #concentrictwisting #twistedwiring #cimpinainteasy #sheathing #boots #connector #milspec #racespec #wire ##learntotune #crimping #wiringcost #materials #enginebuilding101 #dontletthesmokeout #wiring101 #dieseltuning #datanerd #gofasterwithdata #racecraft #learndriveoptimise #motorsports - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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I have worked in professional racing for 20 years and the purpose of those Motorsport wiring harness are made so you can pull the engine out quickly. That’s why every line is a quick connection aluminum on braided line. For speed not to look cool.
Yes the connectors are rated for many cycles of use in this regard too compared to other options - Taz.
you can have a milspec bulkhead connector on any harness but it wouldn't necessarily make the whole harness "motorsport" grade
Thanks for offering these videos. A lot of people are visual learners, and education needs to go in this direction to some degree.
I finally did a harness that's concentrically twisted and put intermediate connectors on it to have replaceable branches. It ended up suiting the application nicely.
As someone who makes harnesses for all types of motorsport, club level or a so called “milspec” with raychem boots and AS connectors. When I do the loom for my project car I will ofcourse be going all in for it because I love doing it, but a club level loom is suitable for any road car or track day car. Anything that’s racing at the highest level such as GT or World Series championships must have a proper milspec loom. It’s a must. Completely agree with andre on this one.
Are you UK based? If so I need a harness made
@@ChevyS10LSUKI've also had issues in UK with very poor harnesses and ended up making my own this so called professional that crimped connectors were all pulling out lol just take your time don't worry about wasting material on your first time also get the correct crimp tools
@@AshLongie thanks man, I’m struggling with the very basics at the moment. Do you use 1 ground for the loom (ground to chassis) or do you need to run the multiple grounds individually back through the loom? That’s the 1 thing preventing me from making my own loom.
@@ChevyS10LSUK in myn I've made 2 one for an Evo and one for fd3s
Both very similar, the grounds they call it star point grounding think haltech or adapteonic made a vid onit where I select a point to ground but be careful the crank sensors cam sensors coil primary, require the 5v sensor ground from ecu so for this I used a ECU sensor ground thick wire to engine bay and branched off it same with the 5v + that comes out ECU,
Always leave few extra wires spare in engine bay harness incase I want to add flex fuel or any additional sensors later on
From battery a nice thick gauge wire straight to engine and one to chassis
Be careful again if u relocate battery in boot I've noticed a very large voltage drop with DIY jobs, make sure you use a multimeter at fuel pump and check you getting decent voltage as I've seen pumps only have 11v even tho battery charging at 14.4v it's a lot to put all into message lol these are the things that pop into my head this was causing random tuning problems inconsistent tuning
Also support your harness from any rubbing use Pclips
@@ChevyS10LSUK the reason I use 2 wires is I've had it where starters can cause interference with engine sensors
Also have a more than adequate battery I've seen people use them tiny battery's cranks the engine but doesn't have enough capacity to keep all sensors powered while cranking
With the harness tape for lower spec harness it's worth chasing down the slightly more heavy duty stuff that's designed to be in the engine bay, the fluffy stuff is generally intended for interior usage. That said both seem to be holding up well in the two series Landrover's I've worked on.
Having a motorsports harness made for my GTiR was one of the best investments I made on it. It's only a street car. But boy is it nice. Not cheap. But nice.
I’d like to do the same for my new edge v6, mostly for simplicity and prep work between different engines and major components. However I’m worried about specific connectors for things like headlights/tail lights and might look into doing what they do at Le Mans, however some things will be pricey 😅
Just something I've noticed using both split plastic sheath & braid sand and dirt will build up inside and if there is any vibration or movement you will sandpaper the insulation off the wire eventually maybe not on a track car but on street car or anything running for extended periods of time. Seal your wiring.
Not motorsport, but I do a lot of harness design for work which led to this video showing up in my recommended (thanks youtube). You bring up a good point that "mil-spec" as a term is fairly vague in what type of connector it refers to as there is such a wide variety. To simplify this, often the term "mil-circular" is used to describe the type of connector shown as it is by far the most common type used. Not saying the motorsport industry must/should adopt the term, but it is an instantly recognizable term to other industries supplying/using these connectors.
Also, if you really want to enter a world of confusion, start looking into mil-spec wire. It might hurt your brain in more ways than one (spools of PTFE jacketed solid-core cable can act similar to a wound garage-door spring).
What about Deutsch DRB connectors as a bulkhead connector? They have high pin densities and high pin counts (128 max). They also have varying pin sizes. The 102 pin version has (2) 4 ga, (4) 8 ga, (16) 12 ga, (80) 16 ga. They are a little large 5" x 2.5". I think there are also options for boots and elbows.
I like to use the loom tape. Then split loom. With cloth tape loom on top. For the period correct look.
Thanks god for finding your chanal guys
I’d just make one for it to look awesome and more clean than stock lol
Kapton, as a product name, covers a range of materials. Some particular types of Kapton is susceptible to cracking and arcing and was subject to certain actions, depending on where it was installed in aircraft (ie inside fuel tanks). It is wrong to say all Kapton is bad and all was removed…
is it possible to build a club level harness with a bulkhead connector because that seems efficient for cars with difficult to work around engines
Look at Deutsch HDP20 bulkhead connectors. Plastic, but far cheaper and available in up to 47 pins. You can also save by using open barrel crimp pins instead of the solid pins that need the $200 crimp tool.
@@justion337 thanks for the information I've been trying to find information on a bulkhead connector but haven't had much luck
I'll second the recommendation for the hpd connectors, they're a very cost effective option especially as there's the commonality of pins and tooling with the various sized Deutsch DT/DTM/DTP connectors.
Personally I'd avoid the open barrel pins cos I find them quite finicky. Unfortunately the price of the HDT-48-00 factory crimper has gone silly else I'd recommend that (I paid 1/2 of the current price)
@@hannahranga buy the JR version, i did on amazon $200 shipped
Kapton is quite flammable. Kapton insulated wiring was used by Airbus a while ago until an accident happened some time ago. Aircrafts with Kapton wiring a still in service till this day.
I should really have my coffee before diving in here haha. This post is more helpful than my previous reply: m.facebook.com/HPAcademy/posts/4920009788091102?locale2=ne_NP - Taz.
Well if things get that hot in the wiring… you’d better be bailing out. One reason aircraft wiring is laced together is to allow dissipation of heat. Burying the wiring only runs up the insulation temperature and resistance… the reason for rubber waterproof covering over wires and the like is the wiring is exposed in most military rotor-wing aircraft and in naval aviation to protect against chloride intrusion into the wiring in a damp or humid environment. In passenger aircraft the single most hazard to life is smoke inhalation of wiring insulation fumes due to fire. The question is whether to insulate wiring or route it away from heat sources the later rerouting is preferred practice. Back in the 1980s very high power density electric motors and generators in aircraft began to be popular over hydraulic actuators these were cooled with fuel internal circulation as originated in the Lockheed ADP Y12-SR71 to solve overheating in high temperature environments… which also depended on aluminum power replacing carbon black in the tires and the latent heat of the fuel used to cool the electronic components cameras and pilots. Now anti-freeze is used to cool motor generator windings in electric cars… though this can work it is extremely dangerous if the coolant leaks while hot… causing intense fires. Unstoppable are battery fires or heat failures.
The F35 and F22 wiring is far far beyond that of other known aircraft…. One of the reasons for the high cost of the F35 was the wiring this also caused significant program delays. Using conventional wiring there was not enough room to install so other very exotic wiring was developed to shrink wiring bundle and actual wire volumes an order of magnitude. This means wiring evolved to carry power much differently than circular mil rated wiring…. F1 wiring is antiquated in comparison like 1912 touring coach compared to present day F1 car.
The historical issues of Kapton were when it was used as insulation that got exposed to moisture. Here, it's just tape that's wound around polyethylene insulated wire and buried in heat shrink. Kapton tape is awesome.
So how much weight would you actually save with the same harness made at a pro level vs. a club level?
I would imagine the pro harness would weigh the same or more with the metal plugs vs plastic.
Thanks to your detail video about harnesses I am also wiring and harnesses technician please help me I want a any company about it
I am working on aircraft wiring and harnesses last 25 years experience
Factory wire harnesses leave a lot to be desired. A couple bulkhead connectors and converting to heat shrink makes a big difference.
-- The harness doesn't need to be concentrically twisted. If you mock it up and heat shrink it on the vehicle, the harness will hold the shape of wherever it belongs. So, if you plan for that, you should be able to get a good fitting system in a reasonable amount of time.
-- If you plan things carefully, a harness will be repairable, simple, clean, and fast.
You can use anything you like, it all has pros and cons.
The important part is understanding both pros and cons and deciding what you can live with and without for your budget and use case/application 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Definitely! Wiring is something I should have learned to do a long time ago. Thanks for posting these videos! It helps people be more realistic in their projects.
It's always better to have started when you did than even later. Hard to fit it all into life too! Great to hear it sounds like you have a handle on things and are enjoying it 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Yeah. Currently, I do stuff for tractors and semis. The owners are tired of OEM hassles. They want the harness to come apart "right here, over there, and be covered with that smooth stuff so they can pressure wash it." Some day, I'll do that awesome hybrid monococue/tube frame race car that's worthy of a concentrically wound harness that's modular for crashes.
Can you go over how you label your wires? I've always had troubles with using a label maker as it leaves a long tail sticking out of the harness. Do you also have a method of labelling each conductor? When I remove my connector it's difficult to identify which pin they were in originally as I use only use red wire
Not sure what you mean by the long tail. My main issue with labels was dealing with weak adhesive. Even if you have nice labels with good adhesive, I'd still recommend clear shrinkwrap to secure and protect the label. Possible solution to the tail too? Probably not but I felt like sharing.
There are label makers that can print directly onto shrink wrap!
@@1hdsquad yep and there's video on TH-cam.
Best solution would be a laser wire marker but a Dymo shrink tube printer will do just fine.
Typically as I build a harness, I make a diagram with color codes etc. You can find primary wire with all sort of color combo's. If that's not something your interested in, the printers for shrinktube work well. Mine is less racing, more restoration, or custom builds. So printing on the tubing isn't a great long term solution for something that's exposed to the elements. Build your harnesses modular too. Divide it into zones or systems.
Hi i need help re-harnassing a volvo 245dl station wagon i dont know where to start . And where can i get a harness from? I like your show .
Hey Darryl, if you need a custom harness you will have to make it yourself or get a local professional to do it for you if that's what you mean. If you're just asking where you buy the materials, check out this thread, heaps are listed there to help you get started: www.hpacademy.com/forum/efi-wiring-fundamentals/show/wiring-and-accessories-suppliers-list - Taz.
literally here for an electric vehicle conversion
it's interesting that in an ev, heat is a complete non issue, fuel too, so i can get away with the much cheaper options that are mostly for abrasion resistance
however water resistance and proofing become a little more important because electrical shorts with complex ev electronics cause bigger problem than an ECU might need to deal with
Heat is an issue on the performance EV side of things for sure. Hope the conversion is going well 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 not nearly, engines get incredibly hot, motors get only kind of toasty by comparison and a radiator fan easily suck all that heat away fast.
If you're talking about DC motor drag racers, those can get kinda hot
www.hpacademy.com/blog/700whp-hybrid-350z-and-electric-lotus-modern-ev-conversions-tech-talk/
@@hpa101 ah, I think I get the confusion. Heat in an EV context is like heat in a human context. For an engine, 100c is normal, for a battery system, only 21c is normal and it feels nice for people. In fact upwards of 50 or 60c is when humans get heat stroke in minutes, or when emergency power shutdowns start disconnecting batteries. 70c is a *battery fire*. Even power electronics inside the motor and inverter rarely get above 60c in normal operation otherwise they start losing their brains.
So for EVs the total heat isn't much but you REALLY REALLY do not want to overheat stuff, operating within a pretty narrow temp range, and quickly/viciously rejecting all heat beyond that.
In that context, even regular PVC wire is fine, you're basically never going to get it hot enough to cause issues unless the car's on fire and in that case, you got bigger problems.
Not going to lie most wiring runs can be made very clean and 90% water proof with a good electrical tape job and cheap braided sheath near hot spots and on the visible runs. Will work perfectly rub and heat resistant can use heat gun on tighter corners and it will hold shape pretty good can do a whole car for $50. Can use heat shrink and get the cheap plastic connectors 99% waterproof. Can also reuse factory connectors or go cut them from the wreckers to reuse. Can have the fanciest connectors and still have a bad crimp or connection giving you grief . Can also make a fancy custom loom and realise you want to change a wire run highly recommend having a car running and driving before you wrap or sheath it as well.
What else you can do?
Sorry to question something, but why would a professional team replace a high end motorsport grade harness after every round? Isn't that the point of it being a high end motorsport harness for it to last well? It almost seems as exposing the team to higher risk of failure by replacing a harness so often. Introducing more potential for manufacturing defects. If the harness is that well build then it shouldn't be a potential failure point for many years.
Where do you get oem connectors beside the dealership?
Some aftermarket suppliers stock them too. There isn't a specific source as some places specialise in one marque and often even just one specific model. Once you have the part number it's straight forward to search - Taz.
Is it possible to use GXL, or could the extra thickness be a problem?
The wall thickness is only an issue if you're using it with connectors that are not suited to that thickness, so the answer is both yes and no.
We generally use TXL though, or Tefzel, depending on what we're building rather than GXL.
Note that often the wire is one of the cheaper aspects of the materials bill - Taz.
There's a tradeoff somewhere.
14 SXL is so thick, putting heat shrink on it is optional.
16 SXL is workable, but kinda stiff. Hard to make strain relief loops.
18/16 GXL has a "quality" feel. Strain relief loops are workable in this size.
12 TXL in a 14 circuit bundle is about like a 00ga welding lead. Can't tie it in a knot, but it's workable. Good luck!
Wtf was that sound at 34:06 lmao Andre’s logging off sound
My new ring tone 😄- Taz.
@@hpa101 hahaha nice
What's the spelling on that "kendall" Tape?
Kapton, note it's also in the captions 🤓 - Taz.
Yeah but I'm also worried about EMF coming off the wires
What is the information source that has you worried about this?
If you are doing things correctly, like shielding and twisting (pairs, you don't need to do the whole loom) where applicable, EMF is not a concern - Taz.
Members lesson '298 | Terminating Shielded Cable' - www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/298-terminating-shielded-cable/?
Also a good one: www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/230-star-point-earthing-explained/?
And this one is probably also a good one for you, but it doesn't cover interference, just generally a good watch: www.hpacademy.com/previous-webinars/306-basic-wiring-fault-finding-2/? - Taz.
When you name a component or item that is less common can you provide spelling of it on the screen? With your Australian accent it's hard to get what said so I can research that specific item.
That's what the captions are there for and it's exactly what they do. I recommend you turn them on 😎 - Taz.
@@hpa101 Haha good point. Thank you.
No worries. Note we work to try ensure every video has solid, accurate captions too. They are not the shitty auto-generated ones that have you guessing as much as you do without them haha - Taz.
I have been around motorsports alot in my life. Presently I drive a log truck in the northwest of the US 🇺🇸. I can honestly say, O.E.M. wiring harnesses are shit. Especially with the chemicals applied to the road in winter..building a correct harness, using the racing industry application. Would probably save you thousands over time!
Everyone thinks just because OEMs make and spend a lot of money that they are doing the best job possible. As you know, far from the truth! They are there to make money, not a perfect product 🤘
Safe driving mate! Always impressive where you fellas pedal those log trucks up the side of mountains! - Taz.
So no tined or silvered wire not teflon insulated wires heck no shielded wires and is a "pro" wiring harnes ?? overpriced aviation lookalike connectors sheez man
Have another watch, think you've missed a fair bit 😎 - Taz.