IAM Roadsmart Advanced Bike Test with Username Kate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video, (with kind permission from the IAM) I conduct a genuine IAM Roadsmart advanced bike test. My candidate is fellow TH-camr Username Kate, who has also filed the experience so that She can share it with you from the candidate's perspective.
I made no concessions for Kate during her test and what you see is a genuine IAM advanced bike test exactly as it played out on the day.
See Kate's video here:
• MOMENT OF TRUTH 😬 Do I...
Kate's channel:
/ @usernamekate
For more information on advanced & performance driving & riding, visit my website www.reglocal.com & give me a follow on Twitter @RegLocal
Has an advanced driver with the Ambulance for 11 years at 21.17 Kate overtook on hatched markings, and she also overtook at entrance/exits to properties which is NO. Unfortunately, the would not have the standard of a pass let alone a first. You also have taken be consistent in the use of system of bike control, if she isn't its not a first. She also exceeded the speed limit.
I'm pleased she passed - having done my test a few years ago I appreciate how nerves can affect the ride. However, like others, I was a little surprised by the 'first' , particularly given the overtake at junction and driveways from 21:05.
If she was not that nervous (thinking of someone is watching me), she would have overtook that car in a second...
"I'll give you that one" @21:06 - the overtake past multiple junctions and breaking the 40mph limit (Reg is doing 40 and Kate is pulling away), and a nice little wobble on the return for good measure. It's not safe, legal or necessary (the white car ends up entering the subsequent roundabout at the same time) - but he's literally saying he'll ignore the mistake for some reason. And she 50ps her way around the subsequent fast section with humdrum positioning. Fair enough it was decent overall but surely giving this a "rare first" sets the bar quite low for a standard pass. The chummy tone is at odds with Reg's usual brusque manner and by the end he's talking himself into giving her a top mark and ignoring all the issues. I reckon the opportunity to be gallant on camera got the better of Reg in this instance.
Without being harsh on Username Kate (she's a very competent and capable rider) you're right anyone who's been given a F1rst by Reg Local must be annoyed by that; she did make a poor judgement error on the overtake and she knew it too so he could have easily failed her on that and agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of him. Think his group should tell him that too
Reg said after the overtake and to some degree supporting the decision he said 'if its necessary to overtake'. perhaps meaning that it was acceptable. Advanced riding and Roadcraft clearly explains the questions to be asked before considering any and all overtakes. The first one of these and one not readily asked is, DO WE NEED to overtake. After all we are not emergency workers that have a NEED to be somewhere and use progress to do so. Thus to them a decision to overtake is balanced with NEED and to all things being taken into account. We as civilians will never ever have to consider that NEED. In reality there is no justification for many an overtake that we make, other than a mere WANTING to.
Many riders fail to ask and answer that first question, but making it one of DO WE WANT to overtake ? Its about time we asked ourselves the first question and lose the second one. That said . It appears to me from all my road experiences and driver training within and outside of the the police service that what is being instructed could be at fault. That many riders and drivers are actually doing what they are expected to do. They have a pressure and a need to show a willingness or requirement to overtake or be marked down. By merely using a little restraint we can all become safer road users.. Civilians do not have the same need to show the same urgency or degree of progress that emergency service users NEED to do at times. Under normal road patrol duties they just remain at normal following on speeds, giving safe distances and with fewer overtakes knowing that they are unnecessary.
One always remember pearls of wisdom from one's police driving instructor and this one said ' any fool can ride fast but a safe riders knows when to slow down' Meaning if catching up with traffic and with no NEED to be anywhere at that time, just slow down, back off and follow at a safe stopping distance and view the whole road and whatever is going on.
Perhaps with those words ringing true, we should take stock of our NEED to overtake, pull back and reduce their numbers, thus reducing the potential danger that may present itself on any overtake and reduce the accident/collision stats and therefore the numbers of motorcyclists or others killed or seriously injured as a result of such inappropriate manoeuvres.
Can you tell what speed she is doing I cant.
My thoughts as well
I was rather surprised by Kates choice in overtaking, why……just hang back, the sun was low giving hidden dangers, those chevron markers a huge hint, that road usage changes would occur, ie cars turning right, and across your path, the speed limit was 40…so just drop back, ease off the gas….wait until you have cleared that little hamlet….as it was the white car increased its speed…..no I am sorry, that was a very dangerous and unnecessary manoeuvre and for me would have resulted in a fail…….you just make those poor judgements and you tend never to make them again…..it could end up bad….I cannot understand this need for speed, to have to get past any and every car…whatever happened to a nice ride out, enjoying the ride , getting your road position spot on, ride to the conditions….and get back in one piece….I have been riding for 43 years…..still learning and self assessment after each ride…..no wonder I am shattered after a ride….I just think speed and overtaking just to get to wherever quicker is not a good idea with most drivers out there thinking us invisible…just my opinion.
As an IAM RoadSmart Associate myself with a recent pass, under my belt, Kate’s First does surprise me. From the commentary she seems to be a pass scoring 1’s and 2’s at 2/3 the way through the ride then she jumps to being a First for the last part of the ride. I have seen all Reg Local’s videos as I was encouraged to watch them during my own training. I can understand that Observers may have their own preferences, bike riding is subjective but I seen to many not sure if Kate is a 1 or 2 comments from Reg to make her ride a First.
So many comments on here about right foot down. Get over it folks! As long as you come to a smooth controlled stop it doesn't matter. I right foot down 95% of the time and it's never been an issue in any IAM or ROSPA test for whatever purpose. It is so much more relaxing. You can easily snick into neutral from 2nd as you come to a stop also (if appropriate at the time). The important thing is that you need to be able to do both left or right foot down. NB. If you are in the UK and still on L plates, do what your instructor says, as left foot down is normally required.
It's clear that she didn't meet the first pass given her errors. At 21 mins in she clearly overtook with hatchings and a junction in a built up forty zone with the car in front still accelerated after it exited the roundabout. This is where the test should have ended.
I have knowledge of the system of control by way of being an advanced police driver and a motorcyclist. Overall, the ride was okay with many positives. Would have been good to see a lot more movement to facilitate the best possible line of sight. However, I cannot work out why the overtake was undertaken at 21:00 mins. I would certainly question the awarding of a 'F1RST' based upon that overtake.
I agree, in my opinion that overtake was very dangerous for her and the oncoming car, sunlight, road markings, speed limit….why the rush, steady and drop back, be patient….I think Kate rode not bad, I felt at times some overtaking and speed in wet conditions was questionable, of course it’s all objective….I was confused about those chevron markings, to be honest I always thought they were a no go overtaking zone…oh well you live and learn….
Reglocal is not an ex Roads Policing Rider, only Class 1 Driver. Im ex Police/Ambo but never been on the bikes, id have loved to have got on our bikes in Brum and done the Police Riders Courses. They do alot of training round Shropshire, let's just say another level!
I always try to transfer my Roadcraft to my riding but Iike for like, my riding is much lower in my own opinion.
How on earth was this test a pass, let alone a first??? Clearly a million and one failings in the riding. The worst being the overtake on chevrons when she took too long to overtake AND passed another junction to the right. What was to gain from the overtake? At the mini roundabout, the white car caught up and went right anyway. Should we be overtaking in a built up area??
You could hear him groan when she did that haha, also the chevrons are fine to enter when needed but it kicks up all sorts of crap onto the car being overtaken (still got that lovely chip in the windscreen) and as you said achieved nothing but burning fuel. Test should have ended there and then.
Great to see it from the Examiners point of view, very useful information to take on board.
Did my IAM test (and passed) over 20yrs ago, but never stop learning.
Top series of videos, thanks for posting 👍
Watched this video a few times and enjoyed it. Congratulations Kate! Today I stumbled across a video by someone listed as 'Alien13' which essentially attacked and criticised the examiner and the IAM for this test by using a series of time stamped examples from the ride.
It would be interesting to see a response and/or rebuttal to A13s comments in the interest of balance and fairness to both the examiner John and the associate Kate. 37:47 37:47
I'm surprised Alien 13 hasn't glued himself to the road in protest.
I am not a rider but I thoroughly enjoyed the video for several reasons: 1. I was intrigued how the bike test is conducted 2. It was nice to see the real test live with comments from the examiner 3. It was great to "ride" along nice UK roads. Thank you very much Reg for this experience! Great stuff!
there's two people on here, no name's mentioned, but if you where to follow their channel and watch them taking candidates out, you'd learn a dam sight more, and whilst people are saying they have no right to comment because their not examiners, that's laughable, who do think gets the rider up to a high standard in the first place, its not the examiner, and the two people who did comment are master riders, that's the civilian equivalent of the police test, i could carry on but there's no point, has a member its embarrassing.
Nice one Reg, as a 68 year old lifelong biker it is great to see folk advance their riding skills and capability. I think that the majority of these type of courses are well worth doing.The one thing that gets my goat is the advice to put the bike in neutral at a stop light, I have and always will position the bike in gear so as to be able to make a quick escape in case I am rearened, has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. The mechanical sympathy idea is pure poppycock.
And my two cents I never sit in gear waiting as I have seen a bike jump forward into the pedestrians at a crossing when the clutch cable broke,but each to there own
A friend stopped behind a car that stopped for an oncoming tractor. He really should've been prepared, on his Deauville, in reverse gear (Yeah right!) because the car in front suddenly reversed to give the tractor room, and trashed the Deauville.
Overtake on a junction? A fail - you even groaned.
I passed my I.A.M. in June last year and it was nice to see it from the testers point of view. Well done Kate.
Just watched both vlogs (Kates first). Kate did seam to ride better once she relaxed more like everyone does on a test , especially after the overtake where she thought she'd failed. It's great to see from both perspectives.
Weather gods were kind as well.
I'm glad she passed. Great vlog 👌
Fascinating video. Brakes before gears definitely isn’t how I like to use my bikes auto blipper 😅🙈. You have also made me realise that I massively need to improve my observations and road positioning.
Really like this video, especially from the eyes of an examiner. It’s always great to hear what you are looking for from associates. Good on IAM to allow you to film this, great to see them being more open about the course and test.
The groan you made at 21.06 at the crazy overtake says it all, then you proceed to say “ok, I’ll give you that one” that has got to be a fail - hatchings and junctions all in one! You say it’s allowed if it’s needed - well it wasn’t needed, you didn’t!!
Many times during the ride you suggested her positioning was off.
I know no one is perfect but to say that was a First, is a joke and makes a mockery of the whole thing. If you genuinely think that was a first, I respectively question if you should be an examiner. A pass at best, but I don’t think that was even a pass. To be fair, neither did Kate
If the IAM see this vid - you will need to be retested yourself as an examiner.
Seriously - your better than that.
I'm guessing the days of the Examiners all being ex Police Instructors or Class 1 Drivers/Riders is gone.
I have heard Civilians conduct exams as well as retired/serving Traffic officers now.
RegLocal is not an ex Bike Cop, only cars, though honestly can not pass any detriment to his car videos.
I see some ex Roads Policing Riders commenting on here ref standard of pass!
Enjoyed the video Reg, watched Kate's too. I noticed she always puts her right foot down when coming to a stop. As a retired police biker I was always taught to use the back brake (below about 15mph) as you come to a stop and put your left foot down. Does mean you have to swop feet to change into first gear if you haven't already done so prior to actually stopping.
That move over chevron zone, was in my opinion dangerous and unnecessary……patience, you don’t need to be in a damn hurry…..drop back, wait and overtake when you can see way ahead, that point she could not, a car could have turned right, the sunlight can play havoc in vision for both bike and car….I am surprised you gave that one, for me this was dangerous and would in my opinion result in a poor decision.
I wonder how many motorcyclists will watch both videos and maybe realise that their own level of competency was better than they thought… 🤔
judging by that overtake yup
In my case, so much so that I applied for the course! Like most, *that* overtake was very alarming to me, accepting that everyone makes mistakes (though I am certain I wouldn't have made that one). It seems that 'making progress' and all that entails - perhaps pushing the rate of progress beyond that which is *necessary* and overtaking when there is no compelling need to do so. OK, wide angle cameras make it all look much faster than it is. But even so, we are recreational riders, not emergency services personnel.
Hello John / Reg. At about 9 minutes 15 seconds into the video, your candidate arrives at the 2 mini roundabouts and very clearly went over the white circle on the second one. What are your thoughts on that ?
I noticed that 😏
Delighted she has passed. And the F1rst well deserved.
She didn't do a perfect ride, but no-one was expecting a perfect ride.
Her overtake of the white car was, admittedly rudimentary, and she thought it had failed her test.
But the other two overtakes which she carried out were exemplary.
Well done, both of you. 😀😀😀
On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
As a Canadian I strongly believe we need this here. In my province we recently started to have graduated license, based on engine displacement. This testing would make things so much better, maybe save a life or two. Great job!
I'm literally taking my test within the next few days! Was hoping this would come out beforehand so I could see what's what beforehand 👍🏻
The fact with this video is that both are TH-cam folk, he obtained special permission for preferential treatment during her test, if he'd have either failed her or marked her down his channel may have been bombarded with negative comments and he may have lost some subscribers. He even allowed her to stop midway through the test to change her batteries!! What the hell is all that about? 😳
Looked good to me well done Kate and big thanks to Reg Local ❤
Well done Kate, great result, been watching her progress on her channel and very impressed. Good to see your observations and thoughts during the ride. Took some observed rides with rospa last year but never took the test, might just have a go this year, nothing to lose and all to gain like Kate
Fascinating video, Reg. Even though I'm no longer a motorcyclist, much of the content is equally applicable to car driving. I was hoping you'd include your debriefing with Kate at the end. Thanks for doing all that.
Thank you for getting the required permissions, it was very interesting to see the ride from the candidates and the examiniers point of view. I didn't know that about the 'broken hatches'.... every day is a school day...athough I have to say I still would have waited, but I'm old, and tend to be a bit 'over cautious' possibly.
On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
It had just excited a roundabout it's a low powered car 40 is a limit not target doing 30 past that junction was the correct speed given the car caught then at the next roundabout shows it wasn't just messing around at low speed it prob went past the danger of the junction then built it's speed up after the danger it was a clear fail thier was no need to overtake this idea and focus on making progress by these trainers is what causing accidents
Watching this with broken ribs whilst I heal from dropping my v strom. Never even heard of this test. She’s a very confident rider. I am impressed.
It's actually cool to see from your perspective, we can see what the ride looks and supposed to be like from your point of view as she got a 1st 🤟🤙
I'd be interested how you justify the overtake not breaking any rules? Past 3 junctions on the right and it simply wasn't necessary. She's a good rider and I'm glad she passed, but not a first for me and probably should have been a fail
Was really good to see both perspectives. I have my IAM test next week. I've really enjoyed doing the training & just looking forward to more training afterwards.
I think that the IAM (especially for Bikes) gets quite a bad rub from the younger motorcyclists; so irrespective of whether this deserved a 1st, or not, it was a great advocate for more training and safer riding as it didn’t look like a sit up and beg style of riding, despite the Hi-Viz vest. I hope Kate continues to make reference to the lifesaving skills she picked up from taking the course.
Great video Reg.. I really enjoyed watching it. I last rode a bike about 8 years ago (family and work meant I couldn't justify keeping it). I joined the IAM as an Associate in December in preparation for my first observed drive in April (they are very busy :-) ) so have been watching all your driving and bike videos, and this was really great to see a test. Thanks once again, and will continue watching your videos in preparation for my observed drives and tests..
I’m looking forward to seeing Reg’s response to the comments posted here.
Don't hold your breath.....
Nice video. I've used intercom on a bike and think it would be helpful if these were introduced for tests. I took a RoSPA bike test in similar conditions. The sun was low in the sky and trying to spot the examiner's indicators in my mirrors with the glare of the sun behind me was quite difficult and distracting. If we'd had an intercom for giving directions it would have made things much easier.
Fully agree about indicators being hard to spot, at least on old gs bikes they were very dim.
Made my learning harder.
That said the kwak bike the examiner had was fine !
I also think it brings an unnecessary distraction to the lesrning
How did she not fail? Lots of positives , but repeated front braking to a stop, with right foot off the brake, should be a fail? Bad lane position on motorway, and that overtake on a junction? Tonnes of positives but surprised it got anywhere near a first. I would imagine some examiners would have failed this ride.
The comment about the braking and right foot is fair and in my opinion it's poor technique but as long as the correct result is achieved dose it really matter which technique is being used? A bit like steering and how you use the wheel whilst driving a car.
@@Aaron70235 but why is it bad technique? IMHO it’s because of the increased risk of losing the front end - unnecessarily. In fact, in my pre-test prep, I was told by an examiner they will actively check you’re only using the rear brake as you come to a stop. In your basic motorcycle test, I recollect you’re generally meant to put your left (near-side) foot down for this reason, and to leave you less exposed off-side. It’s a good debate though, always keen to get others opinions.
Being a BMW GS it probably had linked brakes with the handlebar lever operating both.
There's nothing wrong with right foot down. You need to be able to do either method. The important thing is coming to a smooth controlled stop without pogo-ing the front forks. For right foot down you need to be able to feather the front brake. Right foot down can also be so much more relaxing in busy stop/start town/city riding . In fact some police forces use/promote this technique. So many people get hung up about what foot is being used and it really isn't an issue.
Foot down doesn't really matter much on end result, Roadcraft and the IAM ARC both say about becoming proficient in using either or both feet in a controlled and smooth manner. But I definitely agree with the concerns around the result. Multiple instances of endangering herself, lack of control/smoothness, list goes on. My test was very similar to this (nowhere near as many unsafe maneuvers but the general vibe is the same), but I ended up with 1's and 2's across the board with an examiner who is known to be a bit harsh on results (amazing guy, he just has high standards)
Brakes on and off before she tips it in. As an ex emergency biker, I now use trailbraking a new thought on bends and physics. Not saying what’s right or wrong but for me trailbraking every time if used correctly. I expect flack don’t give a fig. The”system” has never been modernised
Yes you're a brave man to mention 'trail braking', but it's so useful on unknown roads /bends.
Great and useful video, good to see it from the observer's perspective too. I've just signed up to the IAM and waiting to go for my first observed ride soon. Well done Kate!
Hmmm... Agree definately not a first.. But mycritisisms are with Reg.. His positioning left a lot to be desired, mainly passing too close to parked cars..
He applauded Kates joining the motorway but failed to indicate himself.
This re affirms my beleif that IAM are " Do as i say, not as i do"...!!!!
Absolutely superb. 👍 Really enjoyed it and seeing Kate's take on the test. Really pleased to see your view as an examiner. Well chuffed 👍👍.
Excellent video Reg, I am completely in agreement with you on the assessment - That was good riding from Kate. You gave a very good commentary and you also demonstrated an excellent example of safe, offline observer/examiner riding from you.
That was a fantastic video sir. I just watched Kate’s test video yesterday and had no idea you were posting one as well (although I did see your camera, assumed it was for assessment reasons). I was also very impressed with her riding, a new subscriber to her channel (at 58 years of age living in the U.S.). I am retired LEO, I ride a GSA and wish we had a similar program here. Again sir, thank you and be safe.
Really good video, interesting to see and hear the observations of the ride. Very useful info. I'm currently preparing for 3 Yr ROSPA assessment, this video is a very good resource. Thanks to everyone for making it possible
Interesting video Reg. Nice to see the ride from the examiner's perspective after watching Kate's video. It was clear she was very nervous from the start and that she relaxed no end once she thought she had failed after that dodgy overtake. I've some videos from an Observer's perspective on my channel so it was good to compare your thinking as you were assessing her ride.
At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
@@tinkertime7165The speed of vehicles, the actual speed limit, the reason she did it, have absolutely no relevance, overtaking on hatchings (unnecessarily) and also passing a junction, would be a fail on a basic test, let alone a 'advanced' test.
@@Grahamvfr there are a few things on an advanced test that if you did on a regular test you would fail.
That doesn’t make them illegal or unsafe. We have to remember there are basic rules taught for good reasons.
Since there is no definition of what constitutes ‘necessary’ when entering a hatched area it is open to opinion. In my opinion it can be necessary to enter the hatched area to safely perform an overtake. Regarding the junction I would agree not to overtake unless the view is good enough to see it it clear and poses no risk from vehicles emerging.
@@tinkertime7165 So are you saying the overtake was safe?
@@Grahamvfr do you think it was unsafe?
Hi ... Another good video its well done Kate from me ! I understand the piece around nerves, having recently passed the IAM test after some fantastic mentoring from my observer, I obtained my Full Motorcycle Licence in 1972 so the IAM process was challenging 🤯 but worth every minute 👍keep the videos they are very informative and well delivered ... kind Regards
Certainly a good all-round ride. Ideally should have demonstrated restraint when contemplating the white car overtake at the junction; although demonstrated classic overtakes as well. Problem is, if one element is questionable it usually means other elements can be too. e.g. A single questionable overtake can raise questions re: observations, planning & hazard management, anticipation, restraint/progress as well as 'overtaking'? Notwithstanding this overtake, the Rider consistently demonstrated a '1' representing 'commended' in all of these elements throughout the rest of the ride. Therefore I believe justified a F1RST being awarded to the Rider. Well done indeed.
Another excellent video, 'Reg'.
IMHO..No way an IAM F1RST adv level ride. Even a pass is debatable due to: No preride checks explained, no highway code questions, obvious prompts and coaching from examiner during ride as the examiner speaks in first person to candidate on many occasions and the rider reacts or stops an overtake at last second having heard the examiner comment about no overtaking on the stretch of road, riding over mini roundabout paint, exceeding speed limit, no systematic use of ipsga, random positioning, overtaking an accelerating vehicle while going past junctions from right and left, late shoulder checks etc etc. Even the candidate surprised at passing the so called test. An examiner knows when a candidate rides a F1RST level ride...there is no need for "come to the conclusion". This video is not an example of a adv rider passing a adv test nevermind a F1RST pass. Don't expect to pass or attain a F1RST with the above faults.
re: 2 second rule then dropping back further being a problem. 2 seconds is minimum safe distance, why would you use that as a hard and fast rule for every occasion? Overtake at 21.00 was plain bad and just use an intercom for crying out loud!
Very interesting to see both your and Kates video; I’ve gone through Advanced, Advanced Plus and recently completed my Masters plus I’m a LO; watching Kate riding would you say she’s actually close to Masters level? I only mention it because she looks pretty competent. Great to see an Advanced test on video!
This is the second time I have watched this video, but the first time I have read through all the comments afterwards. I am saddened by all the negative comments and criticism that Reg received. Sure, Kates ride wasn't 100% perfect, but neither is any ones ride (mine included).
It is the examiners decision what they award a candidate, and if he felt Kate deserved a first, then that is the right decision on the day. It is all to easy to pass judgement from the comfort of our homes watching a PC screen.
Good on her for attempting IAM Roadsmart; I've thought for a while that motorcycle vloggers should be of Advanced standard; or at least encourage their viewers to take Bikesafe/ Advanced training. Some vlogger riding standards are 'interesting'....
The overtake at 21.00 min was unnecessary and dangerous.
She is putting the right feet on the ground while stoping. Which means she is using front brake.seems wrong to me. Only rear brake should be applied at stopping point
This was excellent, watching Kate’s video and then yours. Well done to both of you.
Great video Reg and well done Kate. Is there any chance of filming an IAM car test please
There are a couple of things about the way i ride that tells me this and a bike safe would be a waste of time. I sit to the right of cars so drivers can see me. When I'm taking a left corner especially in the countryside im slowing and moving to the left not moving wide to the right to "see further down the road" i know 3 people that have been seriously injured being over to the right when a loon in a car speeds round the corner. Secondly i hated the overtake. If im overtaking a car and it speeds up a bit I'm not going to slow overtake I'm going to drop a gear and speed up. Following speed limits is great until you need to complete an overtake quick then its safety first. Certificates to say you did well on a test is a nice idea i prefer ride well all the time. I know someone who passed IAM and rospa then crashed when a van slowed down coming upto a road on the right and then suddenly indicated right she had went to overtake slammed brakes dumped bike.
Hi Reg/John, as a very recent mid-life crisis new biker, I've been working my way through all of your biking videos and feel that I have learned a lot, so a massage thank you. I've been fortunate to receive advanced driver training by ex-police drivers in the past during my employment and have the utmost respect for the skills and knowledge that you/they possess and your/their willingness to help others. I then arrive at this video and I would be curious to know what I am, and others are, expected to take away from this. I will not give my opinions on the ride or the result but what I will say is that I know the value of advanced training but I think there is a genuine risk here that this video will discourage riders from progressing their rider skills, moreover through the IAM.
Great video, I'm just about to start my IAM with my 1st observed ride next week. Great to see what's expected of you. Off to watch Kates video now!
I found the assessment of kate's test fairly accurate, apart from the now well covered controversial overtake , which was a rider error, but no one is perfect on the day of a test, and the fact that she seen her mistake herself during making it, gives a good indication that Kate well deserved her Pass.
I certainly wouldn't begrudge her the test marks/results.
Interesting seeing it from an examiners point of view. I watched Kate's video first. I'm looking at advanced training but want to clock up a few more miles on my new to me Triumph Explorer first.
I'd be interested having watched Kate's video, on your opinion of the overtake. She overtook, past a junction on the nearside, on chevrons, which you described as 'agricultural'. Throughout the ride, the positioning was less than perfect, and yet you awarded a first. Having passed with a first myself, I am interested to know what constitutes not getting awarded it? Kate, who is a very experienced rider, thought it was so bad that she had failed overall with the move, and yet she was awarded the 'rare' first. Interested to know your thoughts on this?
Unless you’re in the examiner’s seat, I guess you don’t get the same perspective. But as it is, a strange award for that ride. Would love to hear the examiner’s explanation to some of the points raised.
Yes the Highway code states entering hatching s, is OK 'if necessary' but an overtake wouldn't be deemed as necessary, as those hatchings are specifically to protect the oncoming right turners.
Currently doing my masters. Don't think thr hatches are massively relevant here, I agree it wasn't on, and the positioning did improve but I missed out on a f1rst my first time around for exactly those issues...
For what it's worth, I can see why and fully agree with Reg's decision from what I saw here. Confident and safe ride, overall application of the system was good. There is no perfect ride and I don't think you should have to ride one to get it, having a 1️⃣ for an area like position is about it being _consistent_ throughout the ride. Consistency is not the same thing as perfection (not having any tiny error in judgement or nerves getting in the way).
Just my 2p and I'm not an examiner, reg is, he was there, and I think his judgement of the overall ride was probably spot on.
Great work Kate, absolutely stoked for you well done and happy riding 🎉🏍️
@@Grahamvfr Yes but being necessary can be a subjective word. What some would consider necessary others wouldn't / There is no legality in the statement at all except to possibly convey its use when necessary to avoid dangerous or difficult situation or collision or accident/incident where life would be at risk. Otherwise necessary could mean just being late for being home for tea.
@@rcraven1013Thank you, We are talking advanced riders here remember, and i can assure you in a court of law, illegal or not illegal, suggesting crossing hatchings was necessary because you were late for tea would not evade a charge of driving without due care and attention, if a situation arose. Not forgetting that even on a dvsa (learner) test, that would be marked as serious fault in those circumstances.
In your subjective opinion then, was Kates overtake necessary?
I thought it’s an automatic fail if you overtake opposite any junction or opening to premises? Ie outside the farm on the broken chevrons? It was when I watched the TeapotOne video with the Metropolitan police bike cop🤔
Not necessarily, or it depends.
Is it safe, was it appropriate?
@@alanbrown5593 wasn’t safe in this instance!! That car could have done a last second turn into the property on right…I certainly wouldn’t have carried out that move there…..
@@TwoFourCharlie007 The angle could be deceptive, at the speed of the car it is very unlikely it could slow/turn in time. Not saying impossible just unlikely.
We all have our own little pet issues, if I was being hypercritical not modifying/changing position in respect of oncoming traffic.
Overall, a safe competent ride, demonstrating the application of the system. It took a lot of courage, on both, to post the test, due to some less enlightened individuals.
@@alanbrown5593‘…it depends’ 😂
Whenever I read/hear this, it just deters me from undertaking the IAM path of enlightenment and the hard earned money saved can be better spent on other pursuits.
@@colingreen2320 Whatever form of additional training you choose just go do it.
Isn't super sexy, but may save your life.
good ride definitely a pass but not a 1st IMO , confirms my view that the standard is getting lower.
I am confused. The hatch lines bit I get, but I thought with the car accelerating and it being a 40 it was a very marginal with little extra speed to carry the bike past. The other one was the overtake on the Land Rover (a farmer's vehicle) right by the entrance to a farm - for me the liklihood of the Landy turning would have had me waiting until I was beyond the farm entrance - would that get me marked down as 'hesitation'?
If you are giving instructions regarding which roundabout exit to take, its better to say take 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th exit, instead of take the left, straight on or right turn etc
Hi John, thanks for the video series. Its been a great help whilst getting started with my advanced training. Cheers 👍
Clearly a fail, although she rode better than the examiner! Even Kate herself was surprised! How on earth do you upgrade the ‘pass’ to a First 30 mins later?
To be fair to both Reg/Kate I will look forward to watching it and Kates video on a bigger screen.I am not convinced that having 4 seperate observers is a good idea.....while every day is a school day,doctors differ-patients die.
Great result for Kate. Interesting that she got a first with a 2 in one section. Is a First based on overall but not necessarily perfect. Not detracting from her result. She did great. Just curiosity. Hope I get a good result for 2023 too.
A first is all 1s ,
@@RichieRides Not necessarily, my son got a 2 for one item, but due to his overall demeanor and attitude the Examiner decided to grant him a F1rst (car), which I never hear the end off., according to him I sat my test on a horse and cart !
@@RichieRides that’s what I thought. Again, not putting Kate down. It was a good ride. Just strange that she was awarded a First where there was inconsistency in the 1’s
@@RichieRides It's not all 1s
A F1rst can be awarded if, apart from a couple of non safety-related 2's, all the rest are 1's. If she'd gotten all 1's but pickep up a solitary 2 for something regarding safety then she would not have been awarded the F1rst. Her 2's weren't safety-related so examiner discretion was applied.
Well done Kate , I never expected anything else than a 1st from you. 👍
What's wrong with doing brake - gear - brake when doing the tight left hand turn from the 40? Having a bit of back brake on during a turn like that is recommended isn't it?
As a cyclist ( 🙂 ) I would characterise the overtake at 29:10 as prudent, not hesitant. Highway Code says "give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car" and I doubt you'd have gone down the centerline to overtake a car at that spot with oncoming traffic.
Very good though the rest of Kate's ride was, I can't see how that very misjudged overtake and the "2" for positioning allows a F1rst. Other than that, excellent job Kate.
Kate seemed to ride on her test so confidently. I enjoyed watching and definitely spurs me on to do mine! Well done Kate :)
You should!
Excellent. My favourite upload to date.
I watched Kates IAM training and her view of the test, it was really informative watching your view of then ride, cheers.
Enjoyed watching the Vid I’m a National Observer for the IAM so it was interesting to see the examiners take on the ride. I got myMasters with Distinction a few years back so look forward to seeking nag your Masters Video for bikes. Keep up the good work I’ve recently started my own channel and go out riding all year round so I can see the benefit of your advice. One day we may end up meeting Hope m channel will be as successful as yours
Hi Reg, a fantastic video and great to see it from both sides. One question though (and you even stated it yourself) the intermediate that you said was a right turn on the board. The reason, I’m sure, Kate thought the final exit is because for the exit you took, being an intermediate, did not require any signal on entry and then a left at the exit prior to the one you took. Or am I reading the situation incorrectly?
Very well done Kate! Question though. At 30:30 in the video, Kate approaches a T junction ready to do a right turn. I notice that as she comes to a stop, her right foot goes down to the ground just before she comes to a complete stop and so must be ending the stop with the front brake. High risk to dropping the bike? She's also on an incline and again, is holding the bike on the front brake and not the rear. As she's doing a right turn, would putting your right leg down be the prefered option? Curious as to what your thoughts are on this as I've only just come back to biking after a long time away. Edit - Re-watched some of the video and noticed she seems to put her right foot down often.
I can't see what difference it makes which leg you put down, as long as you put one down so you don't fall over that should be considered a success 😂
I passed my advanced with a first and was taught: left foot down when the stop is likely to be brief and right foot down when it could be a longer stop, so you can engage neutral and rest your clutch hand. I also do right foot down on right had turns or where the camber of the road drops off to the left so the ride is leaning the right way already. Its odd that the A test prefer left foot down all the time.
Congratulations Usernamekate and thank you for sharing 😊
Ok, in super picky mode; Kate has not properly secured her backpack. a shoulder strap could slip out of place and become a safety issue. The waist belt and upper chest strap should be secured.
WoW that was brilliant , will be applying to do myself on the strength of this video, pity I didn't live up you way ..Thanks .
Thank you. Good to see the footage from Kate & yourself.
i subscribe to both you and kate...decided to watch yours first, really good video and insight into what the examiner looks for, i passed with Dennis a couple of years ago...think its time for a refresher
On a slightly contentious topic - Hi Viz. I'm not personally a big fan. I know the arguments for are sound but I think you as a rider have way more influence on your safety than any high viz jacket. Plus I actually think in some cases riders are put off even looking at doing an IAM course because of the 'high viz' image often attributed to advanced groups.
In the south here, the group I joined (Wantage and Newbury Area) put absolutely no pressure or expectancy to wear high viz gear at all. One or two use high viz and fair enough, do what suits you.
My daughter and a friend have both joined IAM and I'm not so sure they would have if high viz had been pushed on them. Say what you want but if more riders do the advanced training due to this then that has to be a bigger gain surely? Just my view.
Great commentary. More instructive than your own riding vids, actually. Must be dispiriting to read the comments that dispute your assessment. They weren’t there, you were. And we’ll done Kate. It’s unnerving being examined like that (I have been) and can impair ones ride considerably.
a lot on here have been there, that's why there's comments.
Excellent thanks. Good to see it from an examiners point of view esp with the commentary. 👍
FANTASTIC REJ LOCAL! on point, grounded and fantastic natural abilities buddy!
Hello John / Reg - I've been watching your videos in preparation for my ROSPA exam in a couple of weeks . They're great thanks very much . I mean this with all due respect as I'm not an expert, but I must say I'm suprised , given my recent experience, that the much discussed overtake just after 20 mins was ' on ' considering the junction on the right, and that the view into it was restricted? Surely that was a bit dodgy or am I missing something ?
I am looking forward to taking my test but I feel I need a little more riding time before I pay for the rides and test. Great video as always 👍
Awesome ride -i think I will have to do this course !
Great video really enjoyed that one , she did a great ride fair play to her , going look at it from her point on usernamekate .
Thanks for sharing this with us 👍
At 30.00 we are the Belmont road and its a 50 mph speed limit. Kate and Reg are obviously doing only 44 mph by his speedo and he mentions the poss. of an overtake which Kate didn't make. However if the speedos are over reading by an allowance of 2 mph plus 10% then even tho one is only doing 44 mph [ real speed maybe only 40 mph ] one could accelerate to a speed shown on your speedo as 57 mph. [ rear speed of around 50 mph' ] and that is certainly fast enough to overtake. However she did well and better part of discretion decided that at that moment in time not to do so. Well done.
I follow Username Kate and found this adventure particularly interesting. I watched her version last night. I passed my ‘A’ licence back in March last year and I’m keen to do the advanced rider this year. I also think Kate did an excellent job. On a minor point I’m curious about Kate choice of putting her right leg down at junctions and not covering the rear brake, you made no comment about this, with the training school I attended a big point was made about this control. What is your view on this Reg?
I'm right with you there. I only passed my 'A' licence in September 2022, and as with you, my training school were very hot on left leg down so you have control of the rear brake with the right foot.
if you followed her channel, you would have seen her first ride out, she was told not to offside the bike its not expectable on test.
@@MrWhothefoxthat fair enough. Thanks for the answer.
I passed my advanced with a first and was taught: left foot down when the stop is likely to be brief and right foot down when it could be a longer stop, so you can engage neutral and rest your clutch hand. I also do right foot down on right had turns or where the camber of the road drops off to the left so the ride is leaning the right way already. Its odd that the A test prefer left foot down all the time.
@@robsayer8028 Why do you need control of the rear brake, if a 2000kg car hits a 300kg bike, the back brake will not be much use. Doing the Hendon shuffle is old school, use the appropriate brake for the appropriate situation. ie on a slope
Thank you for sharing! Fantastic video and advice. Really helpful. Please keep up the good work!! 🙏👍
When she set off from petrol station at start, she had foot on gears not on brake, so any problem she use front brake at low speed, I was told never to do this in May 23