I'm pleased she passed - having done my test a few years ago I appreciate how nerves can affect the ride. However, like others, I was a little surprised by the 'first' , particularly given the overtake at junction and driveways from 21:05.
Has an advanced driver with the Ambulance for 11 years at 21.17 Kate overtook on hatched markings, and she also overtook at entrance/exits to properties which is NO. Unfortunately, the would not have the standard of a pass let alone a first. You also have taken be consistent in the use of system of bike control, if she isn't its not a first. She also exceeded the speed limit.
So many comments on here about right foot down. Get over it folks! As long as you come to a smooth controlled stop it doesn't matter. I right foot down 95% of the time and it's never been an issue in any IAM or ROSPA test for whatever purpose. It is so much more relaxing. You can easily snick into neutral from 2nd as you come to a stop also (if appropriate at the time). The important thing is that you need to be able to do both left or right foot down. NB. If you are in the UK and still on L plates, do what your instructor says, as left foot down is normally required.
"I'll give you that one" @21:06 - the overtake past multiple junctions and breaking the 40mph limit (Reg is doing 40 and Kate is pulling away), and a nice little wobble on the return for good measure. It's not safe, legal or necessary (the white car ends up entering the subsequent roundabout at the same time) - but he's literally saying he'll ignore the mistake for some reason. And she 50ps her way around the subsequent fast section with humdrum positioning. Fair enough it was decent overall but surely giving this a "rare first" sets the bar quite low for a standard pass. The chummy tone is at odds with Reg's usual brusque manner and by the end he's talking himself into giving her a top mark and ignoring all the issues. I reckon the opportunity to be gallant on camera got the better of Reg in this instance.
Without being harsh on Username Kate (she's a very competent and capable rider) you're right anyone who's been given a F1rst by Reg Local must be annoyed by that; she did make a poor judgement error on the overtake and she knew it too so he could have easily failed her on that and agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of him. Think his group should tell him that too
Reg said after the overtake and to some degree supporting the decision he said 'if its necessary to overtake'. perhaps meaning that it was acceptable. Advanced riding and Roadcraft clearly explains the questions to be asked before considering any and all overtakes. The first one of these and one not readily asked is, DO WE NEED to overtake. After all we are not emergency workers that have a NEED to be somewhere and use progress to do so. Thus to them a decision to overtake is balanced with NEED and to all things being taken into account. We as civilians will never ever have to consider that NEED. In reality there is no justification for many an overtake that we make, other than a mere WANTING to. Many riders fail to ask and answer that first question, but making it one of DO WE WANT to overtake ? Its about time we asked ourselves the first question and lose the second one. That said . It appears to me from all my road experiences and driver training within and outside of the the police service that what is being instructed could be at fault. That many riders and drivers are actually doing what they are expected to do. They have a pressure and a need to show a willingness or requirement to overtake or be marked down. By merely using a little restraint we can all become safer road users.. Civilians do not have the same need to show the same urgency or degree of progress that emergency service users NEED to do at times. Under normal road patrol duties they just remain at normal following on speeds, giving safe distances and with fewer overtakes knowing that they are unnecessary. One always remember pearls of wisdom from one's police driving instructor and this one said ' any fool can ride fast but a safe riders knows when to slow down' Meaning if catching up with traffic and with no NEED to be anywhere at that time, just slow down, back off and follow at a safe stopping distance and view the whole road and whatever is going on. Perhaps with those words ringing true, we should take stock of our NEED to overtake, pull back and reduce their numbers, thus reducing the potential danger that may present itself on any overtake and reduce the accident/collision stats and therefore the numbers of motorcyclists or others killed or seriously injured as a result of such inappropriate manoeuvres.
I was rather surprised by Kates choice in overtaking, why……just hang back, the sun was low giving hidden dangers, those chevron markers a huge hint, that road usage changes would occur, ie cars turning right, and across your path, the speed limit was 40…so just drop back, ease off the gas….wait until you have cleared that little hamlet….as it was the white car increased its speed…..no I am sorry, that was a very dangerous and unnecessary manoeuvre and for me would have resulted in a fail…….you just make those poor judgements and you tend never to make them again…..it could end up bad….I cannot understand this need for speed, to have to get past any and every car…whatever happened to a nice ride out, enjoying the ride , getting your road position spot on, ride to the conditions….and get back in one piece….I have been riding for 43 years…..still learning and self assessment after each ride…..no wonder I am shattered after a ride….I just think speed and overtaking just to get to wherever quicker is not a good idea with most drivers out there thinking us invisible…just my opinion.
As an IAM RoadSmart Associate myself with a recent pass, under my belt, Kate’s First does surprise me. From the commentary she seems to be a pass scoring 1’s and 2’s at 2/3 the way through the ride then she jumps to being a First for the last part of the ride. I have seen all Reg Local’s videos as I was encouraged to watch them during my own training. I can understand that Observers may have their own preferences, bike riding is subjective but I seen to many not sure if Kate is a 1 or 2 comments from Reg to make her ride a First.
I have knowledge of the system of control by way of being an advanced police driver and a motorcyclist. Overall, the ride was okay with many positives. Would have been good to see a lot more movement to facilitate the best possible line of sight. However, I cannot work out why the overtake was undertaken at 21:00 mins. I would certainly question the awarding of a 'F1RST' based upon that overtake.
I agree, in my opinion that overtake was very dangerous for her and the oncoming car, sunlight, road markings, speed limit….why the rush, steady and drop back, be patient….I think Kate rode not bad, I felt at times some overtaking and speed in wet conditions was questionable, of course it’s all objective….I was confused about those chevron markings, to be honest I always thought they were a no go overtaking zone…oh well you live and learn….
Great to see it from the Examiners point of view, very useful information to take on board. Did my IAM test (and passed) over 20yrs ago, but never stop learning. Top series of videos, thanks for posting 👍
Watched this video a few times and enjoyed it. Congratulations Kate! Today I stumbled across a video by someone listed as 'Alien13' which essentially attacked and criticised the examiner and the IAM for this test by using a series of time stamped examples from the ride. It would be interesting to see a response and/or rebuttal to A13s comments in the interest of balance and fairness to both the examiner John and the associate Kate. 37:4737:47
I am not a rider but I thoroughly enjoyed the video for several reasons: 1. I was intrigued how the bike test is conducted 2. It was nice to see the real test live with comments from the examiner 3. It was great to "ride" along nice UK roads. Thank you very much Reg for this experience! Great stuff!
there's two people on here, no name's mentioned, but if you where to follow their channel and watch them taking candidates out, you'd learn a dam sight more, and whilst people are saying they have no right to comment because their not examiners, that's laughable, who do think gets the rider up to a high standard in the first place, its not the examiner, and the two people who did comment are master riders, that's the civilian equivalent of the police test, i could carry on but there's no point, has a member its embarrassing.
Nice one Reg, as a 68 year old lifelong biker it is great to see folk advance their riding skills and capability. I think that the majority of these type of courses are well worth doing.The one thing that gets my goat is the advice to put the bike in neutral at a stop light, I have and always will position the bike in gear so as to be able to make a quick escape in case I am rearened, has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. The mechanical sympathy idea is pure poppycock.
And my two cents I never sit in gear waiting as I have seen a bike jump forward into the pedestrians at a crossing when the clutch cable broke,but each to there own
A friend stopped behind a car that stopped for an oncoming tractor. He really should've been prepared, on his Deauville, in reverse gear (Yeah right!) because the car in front suddenly reversed to give the tractor room, and trashed the Deauville.
Just watched both vlogs (Kates first). Kate did seam to ride better once she relaxed more like everyone does on a test , especially after the overtake where she thought she'd failed. It's great to see from both perspectives. Weather gods were kind as well. I'm glad she passed. Great vlog 👌
Really like this video, especially from the eyes of an examiner. It’s always great to hear what you are looking for from associates. Good on IAM to allow you to film this, great to see them being more open about the course and test.
Fascinating video. Brakes before gears definitely isn’t how I like to use my bikes auto blipper 😅🙈. You have also made me realise that I massively need to improve my observations and road positioning.
Hello John / Reg. At about 9 minutes 15 seconds into the video, your candidate arrives at the 2 mini roundabouts and very clearly went over the white circle on the second one. What are your thoughts on that ?
Enjoyed the video Reg, watched Kate's too. I noticed she always puts her right foot down when coming to a stop. As a retired police biker I was always taught to use the back brake (below about 15mph) as you come to a stop and put your left foot down. Does mean you have to swop feet to change into first gear if you haven't already done so prior to actually stopping.
As a Canadian I strongly believe we need this here. In my province we recently started to have graduated license, based on engine displacement. This testing would make things so much better, maybe save a life or two. Great job!
Nice video. I've used intercom on a bike and think it would be helpful if these were introduced for tests. I took a RoSPA bike test in similar conditions. The sun was low in the sky and trying to spot the examiner's indicators in my mirrors with the glare of the sun behind me was quite difficult and distracting. If we'd had an intercom for giving directions it would have made things much easier.
Fully agree about indicators being hard to spot, at least on old gs bikes they were very dim. Made my learning harder. That said the kwak bike the examiner had was fine ! I also think it brings an unnecessary distraction to the lesrning
Delighted she has passed. And the F1rst well deserved. She didn't do a perfect ride, but no-one was expecting a perfect ride. Her overtake of the white car was, admittedly rudimentary, and she thought it had failed her test. But the other two overtakes which she carried out were exemplary. Well done, both of you. 😀😀😀
On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
It's clear that she didn't meet the first pass given her errors. At 21 mins in she clearly overtook with hatchings and a junction in a built up forty zone with the car in front still accelerated after it exited the roundabout. This is where the test should have ended.
Fascinating video, Reg. Even though I'm no longer a motorcyclist, much of the content is equally applicable to car driving. I was hoping you'd include your debriefing with Kate at the end. Thanks for doing all that.
Thank you for getting the required permissions, it was very interesting to see the ride from the candidates and the examiniers point of view. I didn't know that about the 'broken hatches'.... every day is a school day...athough I have to say I still would have waited, but I'm old, and tend to be a bit 'over cautious' possibly.
On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
In my case, so much so that I applied for the course! Like most, *that* overtake was very alarming to me, accepting that everyone makes mistakes (though I am certain I wouldn't have made that one). It seems that 'making progress' and all that entails - perhaps pushing the rate of progress beyond that which is *necessary* and overtaking when there is no compelling need to do so. OK, wide angle cameras make it all look much faster than it is. But even so, we are recreational riders, not emergency services personnel.
Well done Kate, great result, been watching her progress on her channel and very impressed. Good to see your observations and thoughts during the ride. Took some observed rides with rospa last year but never took the test, might just have a go this year, nothing to lose and all to gain like Kate
That move over chevron zone, was in my opinion dangerous and unnecessary……patience, you don’t need to be in a damn hurry…..drop back, wait and overtake when you can see way ahead, that point she could not, a car could have turned right, the sunlight can play havoc in vision for both bike and car….I am surprised you gave that one, for me this was dangerous and would in my opinion result in a poor decision.
Hmmm... Agree definately not a first.. But mycritisisms are with Reg.. His positioning left a lot to be desired, mainly passing too close to parked cars.. He applauded Kates joining the motorway but failed to indicate himself. This re affirms my beleif that IAM are " Do as i say, not as i do"...!!!!
At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
It had just excited a roundabout it's a low powered car 40 is a limit not target doing 30 past that junction was the correct speed given the car caught then at the next roundabout shows it wasn't just messing around at low speed it prob went past the danger of the junction then built it's speed up after the danger it was a clear fail thier was no need to overtake this idea and focus on making progress by these trainers is what causing accidents
That was a fantastic video sir. I just watched Kate’s test video yesterday and had no idea you were posting one as well (although I did see your camera, assumed it was for assessment reasons). I was also very impressed with her riding, a new subscriber to her channel (at 58 years of age living in the U.S.). I am retired LEO, I ride a GSA and wish we had a similar program here. Again sir, thank you and be safe.
Was really good to see both perspectives. I have my IAM test next week. I've really enjoyed doing the training & just looking forward to more training afterwards.
I think that the IAM (especially for Bikes) gets quite a bad rub from the younger motorcyclists; so irrespective of whether this deserved a 1st, or not, it was a great advocate for more training and safer riding as it didn’t look like a sit up and beg style of riding, despite the Hi-Viz vest. I hope Kate continues to make reference to the lifesaving skills she picked up from taking the course.
Excellent video Reg, I am completely in agreement with you on the assessment - That was good riding from Kate. You gave a very good commentary and you also demonstrated an excellent example of safe, offline observer/examiner riding from you.
The groan you made at 21.06 at the crazy overtake says it all, then you proceed to say “ok, I’ll give you that one” that has got to be a fail - hatchings and junctions all in one! You say it’s allowed if it’s needed - well it wasn’t needed, you didn’t!! Many times during the ride you suggested her positioning was off. I know no one is perfect but to say that was a First, is a joke and makes a mockery of the whole thing. If you genuinely think that was a first, I respectively question if you should be an examiner. A pass at best, but I don’t think that was even a pass. To be fair, neither did Kate If the IAM see this vid - you will need to be retested yourself as an examiner. Seriously - your better than that.
Brakes on and off before she tips it in. As an ex emergency biker, I now use trailbraking a new thought on bends and physics. Not saying what’s right or wrong but for me trailbraking every time if used correctly. I expect flack don’t give a fig. The”system” has never been modernised
Great video Reg.. I really enjoyed watching it. I last rode a bike about 8 years ago (family and work meant I couldn't justify keeping it). I joined the IAM as an Associate in December in preparation for my first observed drive in April (they are very busy :-) ) so have been watching all your driving and bike videos, and this was really great to see a test. Thanks once again, and will continue watching your videos in preparation for my observed drives and tests..
Great and useful video, good to see it from the observer's perspective too. I've just signed up to the IAM and waiting to go for my first observed ride soon. Well done Kate!
How on earth was this test a pass, let alone a first??? Clearly a million and one failings in the riding. The worst being the overtake on chevrons when she took too long to overtake AND passed another junction to the right. What was to gain from the overtake? At the mini roundabout, the white car caught up and went right anyway. Should we be overtaking in a built up area??
You could hear him groan when she did that haha, also the chevrons are fine to enter when needed but it kicks up all sorts of crap onto the car being overtaken (still got that lovely chip in the windscreen) and as you said achieved nothing but burning fuel. Test should have ended there and then.
Hi ... Another good video its well done Kate from me ! I understand the piece around nerves, having recently passed the IAM test after some fantastic mentoring from my observer, I obtained my Full Motorcycle Licence in 1972 so the IAM process was challenging 🤯 but worth every minute 👍keep the videos they are very informative and well delivered ... kind Regards
I am confused. The hatch lines bit I get, but I thought with the car accelerating and it being a 40 it was a very marginal with little extra speed to carry the bike past. The other one was the overtake on the Land Rover (a farmer's vehicle) right by the entrance to a farm - for me the liklihood of the Landy turning would have had me waiting until I was beyond the farm entrance - would that get me marked down as 'hesitation'?
Very well done Kate! Question though. At 30:30 in the video, Kate approaches a T junction ready to do a right turn. I notice that as she comes to a stop, her right foot goes down to the ground just before she comes to a complete stop and so must be ending the stop with the front brake. High risk to dropping the bike? She's also on an incline and again, is holding the bike on the front brake and not the rear. As she's doing a right turn, would putting your right leg down be the prefered option? Curious as to what your thoughts are on this as I've only just come back to biking after a long time away. Edit - Re-watched some of the video and noticed she seems to put her right foot down often.
I passed my advanced with a first and was taught: left foot down when the stop is likely to be brief and right foot down when it could be a longer stop, so you can engage neutral and rest your clutch hand. I also do right foot down on right had turns or where the camber of the road drops off to the left so the ride is leaning the right way already. Its odd that the A test prefer left foot down all the time.
Good on her for attempting IAM Roadsmart; I've thought for a while that motorcycle vloggers should be of Advanced standard; or at least encourage their viewers to take Bikesafe/ Advanced training. Some vlogger riding standards are 'interesting'....
Interesting video Reg. Nice to see the ride from the examiner's perspective after watching Kate's video. It was clear she was very nervous from the start and that she relaxed no end once she thought she had failed after that dodgy overtake. I've some videos from an Observer's perspective on my channel so it was good to compare your thinking as you were assessing her ride.
At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
@@tinkertime7165The speed of vehicles, the actual speed limit, the reason she did it, have absolutely no relevance, overtaking on hatchings (unnecessarily) and also passing a junction, would be a fail on a basic test, let alone a 'advanced' test.
@@Grahamvfr there are a few things on an advanced test that if you did on a regular test you would fail. That doesn’t make them illegal or unsafe. We have to remember there are basic rules taught for good reasons. Since there is no definition of what constitutes ‘necessary’ when entering a hatched area it is open to opinion. In my opinion it can be necessary to enter the hatched area to safely perform an overtake. Regarding the junction I would agree not to overtake unless the view is good enough to see it it clear and poses no risk from vehicles emerging.
There are a couple of things about the way i ride that tells me this and a bike safe would be a waste of time. I sit to the right of cars so drivers can see me. When I'm taking a left corner especially in the countryside im slowing and moving to the left not moving wide to the right to "see further down the road" i know 3 people that have been seriously injured being over to the right when a loon in a car speeds round the corner. Secondly i hated the overtake. If im overtaking a car and it speeds up a bit I'm not going to slow overtake I'm going to drop a gear and speed up. Following speed limits is great until you need to complete an overtake quick then its safety first. Certificates to say you did well on a test is a nice idea i prefer ride well all the time. I know someone who passed IAM and rospa then crashed when a van slowed down coming upto a road on the right and then suddenly indicated right she had went to overtake slammed brakes dumped bike.
Really good video, interesting to see and hear the observations of the ride. Very useful info. I'm currently preparing for 3 Yr ROSPA assessment, this video is a very good resource. Thanks to everyone for making it possible
She is putting the right feet on the ground while stoping. Which means she is using front brake.seems wrong to me. Only rear brake should be applied at stopping point
If you are giving instructions regarding which roundabout exit to take, its better to say take 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th exit, instead of take the left, straight on or right turn etc
Interesting seeing it from an examiners point of view. I watched Kate's video first. I'm looking at advanced training but want to clock up a few more miles on my new to me Triumph Explorer first.
How did she not fail? Lots of positives , but repeated front braking to a stop, with right foot off the brake, should be a fail? Bad lane position on motorway, and that overtake on a junction? Tonnes of positives but surprised it got anywhere near a first. I would imagine some examiners would have failed this ride.
The comment about the braking and right foot is fair and in my opinion it's poor technique but as long as the correct result is achieved dose it really matter which technique is being used? A bit like steering and how you use the wheel whilst driving a car.
@@Aaron70235 but why is it bad technique? IMHO it’s because of the increased risk of losing the front end - unnecessarily. In fact, in my pre-test prep, I was told by an examiner they will actively check you’re only using the rear brake as you come to a stop. In your basic motorcycle test, I recollect you’re generally meant to put your left (near-side) foot down for this reason, and to leave you less exposed off-side. It’s a good debate though, always keen to get others opinions.
There's nothing wrong with right foot down. You need to be able to do either method. The important thing is coming to a smooth controlled stop without pogo-ing the front forks. For right foot down you need to be able to feather the front brake. Right foot down can also be so much more relaxing in busy stop/start town/city riding . In fact some police forces use/promote this technique. So many people get hung up about what foot is being used and it really isn't an issue.
Foot down doesn't really matter much on end result, Roadcraft and the IAM ARC both say about becoming proficient in using either or both feet in a controlled and smooth manner. But I definitely agree with the concerns around the result. Multiple instances of endangering herself, lack of control/smoothness, list goes on. My test was very similar to this (nowhere near as many unsafe maneuvers but the general vibe is the same), but I ended up with 1's and 2's across the board with an examiner who is known to be a bit harsh on results (amazing guy, he just has high standards)
I found the assessment of kate's test fairly accurate, apart from the now well covered controversial overtake , which was a rider error, but no one is perfect on the day of a test, and the fact that she seen her mistake herself during making it, gives a good indication that Kate well deserved her Pass. I certainly wouldn't begrudge her the test marks/results.
Certainly a good all-round ride. Ideally should have demonstrated restraint when contemplating the white car overtake at the junction; although demonstrated classic overtakes as well. Problem is, if one element is questionable it usually means other elements can be too. e.g. A single questionable overtake can raise questions re: observations, planning & hazard management, anticipation, restraint/progress as well as 'overtaking'? Notwithstanding this overtake, the Rider consistently demonstrated a '1' representing 'commended' in all of these elements throughout the rest of the ride. Therefore I believe justified a F1RST being awarded to the Rider. Well done indeed. Another excellent video, 'Reg'.
Very interesting to see both your and Kates video; I’ve gone through Advanced, Advanced Plus and recently completed my Masters plus I’m a LO; watching Kate riding would you say she’s actually close to Masters level? I only mention it because she looks pretty competent. Great to see an Advanced test on video!
I'd be interested how you justify the overtake not breaking any rules? Past 3 junctions on the right and it simply wasn't necessary. She's a good rider and I'm glad she passed, but not a first for me and probably should have been a fail
What's wrong with doing brake - gear - brake when doing the tight left hand turn from the 40? Having a bit of back brake on during a turn like that is recommended isn't it?
I thought it’s an automatic fail if you overtake opposite any junction or opening to premises? Ie outside the farm on the broken chevrons? It was when I watched the TeapotOne video with the Metropolitan police bike cop🤔
@@alanbrown5593 wasn’t safe in this instance!! That car could have done a last second turn into the property on right…I certainly wouldn’t have carried out that move there…..
@@TwoFourCharlie007 The angle could be deceptive, at the speed of the car it is very unlikely it could slow/turn in time. Not saying impossible just unlikely. We all have our own little pet issues, if I was being hypercritical not modifying/changing position in respect of oncoming traffic. Overall, a safe competent ride, demonstrating the application of the system. It took a lot of courage, on both, to post the test, due to some less enlightened individuals.
@@alanbrown5593‘…it depends’ 😂 Whenever I read/hear this, it just deters me from undertaking the IAM path of enlightenment and the hard earned money saved can be better spent on other pursuits.
i subscribe to both you and kate...decided to watch yours first, really good video and insight into what the examiner looks for, i passed with Dennis a couple of years ago...think its time for a refresher
The fact with this video is that both are TH-cam folk, he obtained special permission for preferential treatment during her test, if he'd have either failed her or marked her down his channel may have been bombarded with negative comments and he may have lost some subscribers. He even allowed her to stop midway through the test to change her batteries!! What the hell is all that about? 😳
To be fair to both Reg/Kate I will look forward to watching it and Kates video on a bigger screen.I am not convinced that having 4 seperate observers is a good idea.....while every day is a school day,doctors differ-patients die.
re: 2 second rule then dropping back further being a problem. 2 seconds is minimum safe distance, why would you use that as a hard and fast rule for every occasion? Overtake at 21.00 was plain bad and just use an intercom for crying out loud!
@@RegLocal Your experience may be true (I didn't say it wasn't). But I can send you the email that demonstrates as true what I was sent. I have since had another email from IAM that is hardly supportive of the video. So now it seems, based on what you and IAM say, that there is internal conflict. Hardly a basis for me to have confidence in the scheme. UPDATE: a few hours later, they decided in a third email they *were* aware and supported the video after all! So, examiner 2, IAM 0. I'm happy to send you the emails and the comments made.
Great result for Kate. Interesting that she got a first with a 2 in one section. Is a First based on overall but not necessarily perfect. Not detracting from her result. She did great. Just curiosity. Hope I get a good result for 2023 too.
@@RichieRides Not necessarily, my son got a 2 for one item, but due to his overall demeanor and attitude the Examiner decided to grant him a F1rst (car), which I never hear the end off., according to him I sat my test on a horse and cart !
@@RichieRides that’s what I thought. Again, not putting Kate down. It was a good ride. Just strange that she was awarded a First where there was inconsistency in the 1’s
A F1rst can be awarded if, apart from a couple of non safety-related 2's, all the rest are 1's. If she'd gotten all 1's but pickep up a solitary 2 for something regarding safety then she would not have been awarded the F1rst. Her 2's weren't safety-related so examiner discretion was applied.
I'd be interested having watched Kate's video, on your opinion of the overtake. She overtook, past a junction on the nearside, on chevrons, which you described as 'agricultural'. Throughout the ride, the positioning was less than perfect, and yet you awarded a first. Having passed with a first myself, I am interested to know what constitutes not getting awarded it? Kate, who is a very experienced rider, thought it was so bad that she had failed overall with the move, and yet she was awarded the 'rare' first. Interested to know your thoughts on this?
Unless you’re in the examiner’s seat, I guess you don’t get the same perspective. But as it is, a strange award for that ride. Would love to hear the examiner’s explanation to some of the points raised.
Yes the Highway code states entering hatching s, is OK 'if necessary' but an overtake wouldn't be deemed as necessary, as those hatchings are specifically to protect the oncoming right turners.
Currently doing my masters. Don't think thr hatches are massively relevant here, I agree it wasn't on, and the positioning did improve but I missed out on a f1rst my first time around for exactly those issues... For what it's worth, I can see why and fully agree with Reg's decision from what I saw here. Confident and safe ride, overall application of the system was good. There is no perfect ride and I don't think you should have to ride one to get it, having a 1️⃣ for an area like position is about it being _consistent_ throughout the ride. Consistency is not the same thing as perfection (not having any tiny error in judgement or nerves getting in the way). Just my 2p and I'm not an examiner, reg is, he was there, and I think his judgement of the overall ride was probably spot on. Great work Kate, absolutely stoked for you well done and happy riding 🎉🏍️
@@Grahamvfr Yes but being necessary can be a subjective word. What some would consider necessary others wouldn't / There is no legality in the statement at all except to possibly convey its use when necessary to avoid dangerous or difficult situation or collision or accident/incident where life would be at risk. Otherwise necessary could mean just being late for being home for tea.
@@rcraven1013Thank you, We are talking advanced riders here remember, and i can assure you in a court of law, illegal or not illegal, suggesting crossing hatchings was necessary because you were late for tea would not evade a charge of driving without due care and attention, if a situation arose. Not forgetting that even on a dvsa (learner) test, that would be marked as serious fault in those circumstances. In your subjective opinion then, was Kates overtake necessary?
REALLY really valuable resources - thanks Kate and John for your videos! The running commentary and the visuals offered such great insight! I'm hoping to do advanced training to become a Blood Biker in the New Year. One query: when stopped at a junction, why do you ground your right leg? This was done consistently throughout the test (see 33:27 for example). What are the benefits? I was under the impression (wrongly or rightly!) that one should lower your left leg and cover the back brake (to stop the bike rolling, help with hill starts, etc.). In Ireland, you are penalised in your driving test for lowering your right leg first (you can check that you're in the correct gear, of course, if you need to give the gear shifter a wiggle). Does forward planning not mean that you should drop into first gear - ready to pull off - ahead of coming to a complete stop? Just wondering if grounding your right leg is an advanced technique? Thanks
I was taught to use the rear brake when coming to a halt (generally) and thus put my left foot down. I don’t think it matters which brake you cover when at a standstill, but I do typically cover the rear. To be using the front brake to pull up goes against what I was taught. For me, the crazy overtake should have resulted in a fail, certainky not a F1rst pass. No wonder the candidate thought she’d failed, I really don't know what was going on there.
As a cyclist ( 🙂 ) I would characterise the overtake at 29:10 as prudent, not hesitant. Highway Code says "give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car" and I doubt you'd have gone down the centerline to overtake a car at that spot with oncoming traffic.
Hi Reg/John, as a very recent mid-life crisis new biker, I've been working my way through all of your biking videos and feel that I have learned a lot, so a massage thank you. I've been fortunate to receive advanced driver training by ex-police drivers in the past during my employment and have the utmost respect for the skills and knowledge that you/they possess and your/their willingness to help others. I then arrive at this video and I would be curious to know what I am, and others are, expected to take away from this. I will not give my opinions on the ride or the result but what I will say is that I know the value of advanced training but I think there is a genuine risk here that this video will discourage riders from progressing their rider skills, moreover through the IAM.
This is the second time I have watched this video, but the first time I have read through all the comments afterwards. I am saddened by all the negative comments and criticism that Reg received. Sure, Kates ride wasn't 100% perfect, but neither is any ones ride (mine included). It is the examiners decision what they award a candidate, and if he felt Kate deserved a first, then that is the right decision on the day. It is all to easy to pass judgement from the comfort of our homes watching a PC screen.
Aside from various ongoing elements of the riding throughout which would negate a 1st, I was surprised with the first overtake at 11.27 which surely required a shoulder check?
Very good though the rest of Kate's ride was, I can't see how that very misjudged overtake and the "2" for positioning allows a F1rst. Other than that, excellent job Kate.
Great commentary. More instructive than your own riding vids, actually. Must be dispiriting to read the comments that dispute your assessment. They weren’t there, you were. And we’ll done Kate. It’s unnerving being examined like that (I have been) and can impair ones ride considerably.
Enjoyed watching the Vid I’m a National Observer for the IAM so it was interesting to see the examiners take on the ride. I got myMasters with Distinction a few years back so look forward to seeking nag your Masters Video for bikes. Keep up the good work I’ve recently started my own channel and go out riding all year round so I can see the benefit of your advice. One day we may end up meeting Hope m channel will be as successful as yours
Hello John / Reg - I've been watching your videos in preparation for my ROSPA exam in a couple of weeks . They're great thanks very much . I mean this with all due respect as I'm not an expert, but I must say I'm suprised , given my recent experience, that the much discussed overtake just after 20 mins was ' on ' considering the junction on the right, and that the view into it was restricted? Surely that was a bit dodgy or am I missing something ?
Good video. Thanks. Just curious as to which side of the bike the rear brake pedal is on? I saw a lot of right foot down which should be covering the rear brake surely?
I'm intrigued to hear how there was no comment at Kates persistent use of her right leg. When I was taught (2016/17) it was the case, when stationary, the left leg should be down while the right leg maintains or covers the rear brake. This test seemed more lenient than an examined initial road test in my view.
Hi Stephen, It's actively promoted in IAM's to be able to stop and put either foot down so that you can deal with different cambers on the road and also it removes the need for the 'Hendon shuffle'.
@@Nexus30 So would I be disadvantaged if I wanted my advanced test? it makes sense to me to have the brake covered and that is my habit which I'd not want to brake. I only put my right leg down when stationary in traffic with the left also, to stand up and stretch, bike always in neutral.
@@stephenblair5236 I'm not an IAM's examiner but they do say that its a good skill to have but you wouldn't fail if you couldn't do it. The theory is that with the right foot down you can sit in neutral with the front brake applied and your left foot on the peg ready to quickly engage first should you need to quickly get out of the way or simply to give the clutch some sympathy at the traffic lights that take an age to change.
Your decision for which leg to land on should be made on what you intend to do next. If it's anything more than a momentary stop you should be landing on your right leg, front brake on and bike in neutral. For momentary stops perhaps at junctions, your planning should be for your intended direction of travel - if you're turning right, then landing on your right leg will have the bike already angled towards your next course - land on your left leg to angle the bike left for left turns - hope that helps - cheers - Dale
Great video really enjoyed that one , she did a great ride fair play to her , going look at it from her point on usernamekate . Thanks for sharing this with us 👍
overlapping as part of a planned approach is fine according to IAM observers handbook, and even mentions changing gears towards the end of braking, this matches with the police roadcraft handbook who in 3 examples mention changing down toward sthe end of braking, just wondering why you see it differently - it looked like the time you mentioned it was planned, the gear change was not to brake the bike and it was towards the end of the braking.?
At 30.00 we are the Belmont road and its a 50 mph speed limit. Kate and Reg are obviously doing only 44 mph by his speedo and he mentions the poss. of an overtake which Kate didn't make. However if the speedos are over reading by an allowance of 2 mph plus 10% then even tho one is only doing 44 mph [ real speed maybe only 40 mph ] one could accelerate to a speed shown on your speedo as 57 mph. [ rear speed of around 50 mph' ] and that is certainly fast enough to overtake. However she did well and better part of discretion decided that at that moment in time not to do so. Well done.
@reg local I’d be interested in hearing your (& IAMs) take on right foot down. I know best practice tells us we should be covering that rear bake, what are your views? Don’t tend to do it myself unless the road camber dictates I have to.
I'm pleased she passed - having done my test a few years ago I appreciate how nerves can affect the ride. However, like others, I was a little surprised by the 'first' , particularly given the overtake at junction and driveways from 21:05.
If she was not that nervous (thinking of someone is watching me), she would have overtook that car in a second...
Has an advanced driver with the Ambulance for 11 years at 21.17 Kate overtook on hatched markings, and she also overtook at entrance/exits to properties which is NO. Unfortunately, the would not have the standard of a pass let alone a first. You also have taken be consistent in the use of system of bike control, if she isn't its not a first. She also exceeded the speed limit.
So many comments on here about right foot down. Get over it folks! As long as you come to a smooth controlled stop it doesn't matter. I right foot down 95% of the time and it's never been an issue in any IAM or ROSPA test for whatever purpose. It is so much more relaxing. You can easily snick into neutral from 2nd as you come to a stop also (if appropriate at the time). The important thing is that you need to be able to do both left or right foot down. NB. If you are in the UK and still on L plates, do what your instructor says, as left foot down is normally required.
"I'll give you that one" @21:06 - the overtake past multiple junctions and breaking the 40mph limit (Reg is doing 40 and Kate is pulling away), and a nice little wobble on the return for good measure. It's not safe, legal or necessary (the white car ends up entering the subsequent roundabout at the same time) - but he's literally saying he'll ignore the mistake for some reason. And she 50ps her way around the subsequent fast section with humdrum positioning. Fair enough it was decent overall but surely giving this a "rare first" sets the bar quite low for a standard pass. The chummy tone is at odds with Reg's usual brusque manner and by the end he's talking himself into giving her a top mark and ignoring all the issues. I reckon the opportunity to be gallant on camera got the better of Reg in this instance.
Without being harsh on Username Kate (she's a very competent and capable rider) you're right anyone who's been given a F1rst by Reg Local must be annoyed by that; she did make a poor judgement error on the overtake and she knew it too so he could have easily failed her on that and agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of him. Think his group should tell him that too
Reg said after the overtake and to some degree supporting the decision he said 'if its necessary to overtake'. perhaps meaning that it was acceptable. Advanced riding and Roadcraft clearly explains the questions to be asked before considering any and all overtakes. The first one of these and one not readily asked is, DO WE NEED to overtake. After all we are not emergency workers that have a NEED to be somewhere and use progress to do so. Thus to them a decision to overtake is balanced with NEED and to all things being taken into account. We as civilians will never ever have to consider that NEED. In reality there is no justification for many an overtake that we make, other than a mere WANTING to.
Many riders fail to ask and answer that first question, but making it one of DO WE WANT to overtake ? Its about time we asked ourselves the first question and lose the second one. That said . It appears to me from all my road experiences and driver training within and outside of the the police service that what is being instructed could be at fault. That many riders and drivers are actually doing what they are expected to do. They have a pressure and a need to show a willingness or requirement to overtake or be marked down. By merely using a little restraint we can all become safer road users.. Civilians do not have the same need to show the same urgency or degree of progress that emergency service users NEED to do at times. Under normal road patrol duties they just remain at normal following on speeds, giving safe distances and with fewer overtakes knowing that they are unnecessary.
One always remember pearls of wisdom from one's police driving instructor and this one said ' any fool can ride fast but a safe riders knows when to slow down' Meaning if catching up with traffic and with no NEED to be anywhere at that time, just slow down, back off and follow at a safe stopping distance and view the whole road and whatever is going on.
Perhaps with those words ringing true, we should take stock of our NEED to overtake, pull back and reduce their numbers, thus reducing the potential danger that may present itself on any overtake and reduce the accident/collision stats and therefore the numbers of motorcyclists or others killed or seriously injured as a result of such inappropriate manoeuvres.
Can you tell what speed she is doing I cant.
My thoughts as well
I was rather surprised by Kates choice in overtaking, why……just hang back, the sun was low giving hidden dangers, those chevron markers a huge hint, that road usage changes would occur, ie cars turning right, and across your path, the speed limit was 40…so just drop back, ease off the gas….wait until you have cleared that little hamlet….as it was the white car increased its speed…..no I am sorry, that was a very dangerous and unnecessary manoeuvre and for me would have resulted in a fail…….you just make those poor judgements and you tend never to make them again…..it could end up bad….I cannot understand this need for speed, to have to get past any and every car…whatever happened to a nice ride out, enjoying the ride , getting your road position spot on, ride to the conditions….and get back in one piece….I have been riding for 43 years…..still learning and self assessment after each ride…..no wonder I am shattered after a ride….I just think speed and overtaking just to get to wherever quicker is not a good idea with most drivers out there thinking us invisible…just my opinion.
As an IAM RoadSmart Associate myself with a recent pass, under my belt, Kate’s First does surprise me. From the commentary she seems to be a pass scoring 1’s and 2’s at 2/3 the way through the ride then she jumps to being a First for the last part of the ride. I have seen all Reg Local’s videos as I was encouraged to watch them during my own training. I can understand that Observers may have their own preferences, bike riding is subjective but I seen to many not sure if Kate is a 1 or 2 comments from Reg to make her ride a First.
I have knowledge of the system of control by way of being an advanced police driver and a motorcyclist. Overall, the ride was okay with many positives. Would have been good to see a lot more movement to facilitate the best possible line of sight. However, I cannot work out why the overtake was undertaken at 21:00 mins. I would certainly question the awarding of a 'F1RST' based upon that overtake.
I agree, in my opinion that overtake was very dangerous for her and the oncoming car, sunlight, road markings, speed limit….why the rush, steady and drop back, be patient….I think Kate rode not bad, I felt at times some overtaking and speed in wet conditions was questionable, of course it’s all objective….I was confused about those chevron markings, to be honest I always thought they were a no go overtaking zone…oh well you live and learn….
Great to see it from the Examiners point of view, very useful information to take on board.
Did my IAM test (and passed) over 20yrs ago, but never stop learning.
Top series of videos, thanks for posting 👍
Watched this video a few times and enjoyed it. Congratulations Kate! Today I stumbled across a video by someone listed as 'Alien13' which essentially attacked and criticised the examiner and the IAM for this test by using a series of time stamped examples from the ride.
It would be interesting to see a response and/or rebuttal to A13s comments in the interest of balance and fairness to both the examiner John and the associate Kate. 37:47 37:47
I'm surprised Alien 13 hasn't glued himself to the road in protest.
She gave her certificate back. Says it all really.
I am not a rider but I thoroughly enjoyed the video for several reasons: 1. I was intrigued how the bike test is conducted 2. It was nice to see the real test live with comments from the examiner 3. It was great to "ride" along nice UK roads. Thank you very much Reg for this experience! Great stuff!
there's two people on here, no name's mentioned, but if you where to follow their channel and watch them taking candidates out, you'd learn a dam sight more, and whilst people are saying they have no right to comment because their not examiners, that's laughable, who do think gets the rider up to a high standard in the first place, its not the examiner, and the two people who did comment are master riders, that's the civilian equivalent of the police test, i could carry on but there's no point, has a member its embarrassing.
I passed my I.A.M. in June last year and it was nice to see it from the testers point of view. Well done Kate.
Nice one Reg, as a 68 year old lifelong biker it is great to see folk advance their riding skills and capability. I think that the majority of these type of courses are well worth doing.The one thing that gets my goat is the advice to put the bike in neutral at a stop light, I have and always will position the bike in gear so as to be able to make a quick escape in case I am rearened, has saved my bacon on more than one occasion. The mechanical sympathy idea is pure poppycock.
And my two cents I never sit in gear waiting as I have seen a bike jump forward into the pedestrians at a crossing when the clutch cable broke,but each to there own
A friend stopped behind a car that stopped for an oncoming tractor. He really should've been prepared, on his Deauville, in reverse gear (Yeah right!) because the car in front suddenly reversed to give the tractor room, and trashed the Deauville.
Overtake on a junction? A fail - you even groaned.
Just watched both vlogs (Kates first). Kate did seam to ride better once she relaxed more like everyone does on a test , especially after the overtake where she thought she'd failed. It's great to see from both perspectives.
Weather gods were kind as well.
I'm glad she passed. Great vlog 👌
Really like this video, especially from the eyes of an examiner. It’s always great to hear what you are looking for from associates. Good on IAM to allow you to film this, great to see them being more open about the course and test.
Fascinating video. Brakes before gears definitely isn’t how I like to use my bikes auto blipper 😅🙈. You have also made me realise that I massively need to improve my observations and road positioning.
Hello John / Reg. At about 9 minutes 15 seconds into the video, your candidate arrives at the 2 mini roundabouts and very clearly went over the white circle on the second one. What are your thoughts on that ?
I noticed that 😏
Enjoyed the video Reg, watched Kate's too. I noticed she always puts her right foot down when coming to a stop. As a retired police biker I was always taught to use the back brake (below about 15mph) as you come to a stop and put your left foot down. Does mean you have to swop feet to change into first gear if you haven't already done so prior to actually stopping.
As a Canadian I strongly believe we need this here. In my province we recently started to have graduated license, based on engine displacement. This testing would make things so much better, maybe save a life or two. Great job!
Nice video. I've used intercom on a bike and think it would be helpful if these were introduced for tests. I took a RoSPA bike test in similar conditions. The sun was low in the sky and trying to spot the examiner's indicators in my mirrors with the glare of the sun behind me was quite difficult and distracting. If we'd had an intercom for giving directions it would have made things much easier.
Fully agree about indicators being hard to spot, at least on old gs bikes they were very dim.
Made my learning harder.
That said the kwak bike the examiner had was fine !
I also think it brings an unnecessary distraction to the lesrning
I’m looking forward to seeing Reg’s response to the comments posted here.
Don't hold your breath.....
Delighted she has passed. And the F1rst well deserved.
She didn't do a perfect ride, but no-one was expecting a perfect ride.
Her overtake of the white car was, admittedly rudimentary, and she thought it had failed her test.
But the other two overtakes which she carried out were exemplary.
Well done, both of you. 😀😀😀
On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
I'm literally taking my test within the next few days! Was hoping this would come out beforehand so I could see what's what beforehand 👍🏻
It's clear that she didn't meet the first pass given her errors. At 21 mins in she clearly overtook with hatchings and a junction in a built up forty zone with the car in front still accelerated after it exited the roundabout. This is where the test should have ended.
Fascinating video, Reg. Even though I'm no longer a motorcyclist, much of the content is equally applicable to car driving. I was hoping you'd include your debriefing with Kate at the end. Thanks for doing all that.
Thank you for getting the required permissions, it was very interesting to see the ride from the candidates and the examiniers point of view. I didn't know that about the 'broken hatches'.... every day is a school day...athough I have to say I still would have waited, but I'm old, and tend to be a bit 'over cautious' possibly.
On a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake (21 mins). The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
Watching this with broken ribs whilst I heal from dropping my v strom. Never even heard of this test. She’s a very confident rider. I am impressed.
I wonder how many motorcyclists will watch both videos and maybe realise that their own level of competency was better than they thought… 🤔
judging by that overtake yup
In my case, so much so that I applied for the course! Like most, *that* overtake was very alarming to me, accepting that everyone makes mistakes (though I am certain I wouldn't have made that one). It seems that 'making progress' and all that entails - perhaps pushing the rate of progress beyond that which is *necessary* and overtaking when there is no compelling need to do so. OK, wide angle cameras make it all look much faster than it is. But even so, we are recreational riders, not emergency services personnel.
Well done Kate, great result, been watching her progress on her channel and very impressed. Good to see your observations and thoughts during the ride. Took some observed rides with rospa last year but never took the test, might just have a go this year, nothing to lose and all to gain like Kate
That move over chevron zone, was in my opinion dangerous and unnecessary……patience, you don’t need to be in a damn hurry…..drop back, wait and overtake when you can see way ahead, that point she could not, a car could have turned right, the sunlight can play havoc in vision for both bike and car….I am surprised you gave that one, for me this was dangerous and would in my opinion result in a poor decision.
Hmmm... Agree definately not a first.. But mycritisisms are with Reg.. His positioning left a lot to be desired, mainly passing too close to parked cars..
He applauded Kates joining the motorway but failed to indicate himself.
This re affirms my beleif that IAM are " Do as i say, not as i do"...!!!!
At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
It had just excited a roundabout it's a low powered car 40 is a limit not target doing 30 past that junction was the correct speed given the car caught then at the next roundabout shows it wasn't just messing around at low speed it prob went past the danger of the junction then built it's speed up after the danger it was a clear fail thier was no need to overtake this idea and focus on making progress by these trainers is what causing accidents
That was a fantastic video sir. I just watched Kate’s test video yesterday and had no idea you were posting one as well (although I did see your camera, assumed it was for assessment reasons). I was also very impressed with her riding, a new subscriber to her channel (at 58 years of age living in the U.S.). I am retired LEO, I ride a GSA and wish we had a similar program here. Again sir, thank you and be safe.
This was excellent, watching Kate’s video and then yours. Well done to both of you.
It's actually cool to see from your perspective, we can see what the ride looks and supposed to be like from your point of view as she got a 1st 🤟🤙
Was really good to see both perspectives. I have my IAM test next week. I've really enjoyed doing the training & just looking forward to more training afterwards.
I think that the IAM (especially for Bikes) gets quite a bad rub from the younger motorcyclists; so irrespective of whether this deserved a 1st, or not, it was a great advocate for more training and safer riding as it didn’t look like a sit up and beg style of riding, despite the Hi-Viz vest. I hope Kate continues to make reference to the lifesaving skills she picked up from taking the course.
Excellent video Reg, I am completely in agreement with you on the assessment - That was good riding from Kate. You gave a very good commentary and you also demonstrated an excellent example of safe, offline observer/examiner riding from you.
The groan you made at 21.06 at the crazy overtake says it all, then you proceed to say “ok, I’ll give you that one” that has got to be a fail - hatchings and junctions all in one! You say it’s allowed if it’s needed - well it wasn’t needed, you didn’t!!
Many times during the ride you suggested her positioning was off.
I know no one is perfect but to say that was a First, is a joke and makes a mockery of the whole thing. If you genuinely think that was a first, I respectively question if you should be an examiner. A pass at best, but I don’t think that was even a pass. To be fair, neither did Kate
If the IAM see this vid - you will need to be retested yourself as an examiner.
Seriously - your better than that.
Brakes on and off before she tips it in. As an ex emergency biker, I now use trailbraking a new thought on bends and physics. Not saying what’s right or wrong but for me trailbraking every time if used correctly. I expect flack don’t give a fig. The”system” has never been modernised
Yes you're a brave man to mention 'trail braking', but it's so useful on unknown roads /bends.
Great video Reg.. I really enjoyed watching it. I last rode a bike about 8 years ago (family and work meant I couldn't justify keeping it). I joined the IAM as an Associate in December in preparation for my first observed drive in April (they are very busy :-) ) so have been watching all your driving and bike videos, and this was really great to see a test. Thanks once again, and will continue watching your videos in preparation for my observed drives and tests..
Great and useful video, good to see it from the observer's perspective too. I've just signed up to the IAM and waiting to go for my first observed ride soon. Well done Kate!
How on earth was this test a pass, let alone a first??? Clearly a million and one failings in the riding. The worst being the overtake on chevrons when she took too long to overtake AND passed another junction to the right. What was to gain from the overtake? At the mini roundabout, the white car caught up and went right anyway. Should we be overtaking in a built up area??
You could hear him groan when she did that haha, also the chevrons are fine to enter when needed but it kicks up all sorts of crap onto the car being overtaken (still got that lovely chip in the windscreen) and as you said achieved nothing but burning fuel. Test should have ended there and then.
Hi ... Another good video its well done Kate from me ! I understand the piece around nerves, having recently passed the IAM test after some fantastic mentoring from my observer, I obtained my Full Motorcycle Licence in 1972 so the IAM process was challenging 🤯 but worth every minute 👍keep the videos they are very informative and well delivered ... kind Regards
Absolutely superb. 👍 Really enjoyed it and seeing Kate's take on the test. Really pleased to see your view as an examiner. Well chuffed 👍👍.
I am confused. The hatch lines bit I get, but I thought with the car accelerating and it being a 40 it was a very marginal with little extra speed to carry the bike past. The other one was the overtake on the Land Rover (a farmer's vehicle) right by the entrance to a farm - for me the liklihood of the Landy turning would have had me waiting until I was beyond the farm entrance - would that get me marked down as 'hesitation'?
Very well done Kate! Question though. At 30:30 in the video, Kate approaches a T junction ready to do a right turn. I notice that as she comes to a stop, her right foot goes down to the ground just before she comes to a complete stop and so must be ending the stop with the front brake. High risk to dropping the bike? She's also on an incline and again, is holding the bike on the front brake and not the rear. As she's doing a right turn, would putting your right leg down be the prefered option? Curious as to what your thoughts are on this as I've only just come back to biking after a long time away. Edit - Re-watched some of the video and noticed she seems to put her right foot down often.
I can't see what difference it makes which leg you put down, as long as you put one down so you don't fall over that should be considered a success 😂
I passed my advanced with a first and was taught: left foot down when the stop is likely to be brief and right foot down when it could be a longer stop, so you can engage neutral and rest your clutch hand. I also do right foot down on right had turns or where the camber of the road drops off to the left so the ride is leaning the right way already. Its odd that the A test prefer left foot down all the time.
Good on her for attempting IAM Roadsmart; I've thought for a while that motorcycle vloggers should be of Advanced standard; or at least encourage their viewers to take Bikesafe/ Advanced training. Some vlogger riding standards are 'interesting'....
Interesting video Reg. Nice to see the ride from the examiner's perspective after watching Kate's video. It was clear she was very nervous from the start and that she relaxed no end once she thought she had failed after that dodgy overtake. I've some videos from an Observer's perspective on my channel so it was good to compare your thinking as you were assessing her ride.
At 21 minutes on a closer look you can see why she went for the overtake. The car was doing 30mph in a 40 until she committed to the overtake and THEN it decided to accelerate. First time I saw it I thought it looked a bit untidy but I give Kate the credit here. ~good decision from the examiner in my opinion.
@@tinkertime7165The speed of vehicles, the actual speed limit, the reason she did it, have absolutely no relevance, overtaking on hatchings (unnecessarily) and also passing a junction, would be a fail on a basic test, let alone a 'advanced' test.
@@Grahamvfr there are a few things on an advanced test that if you did on a regular test you would fail.
That doesn’t make them illegal or unsafe. We have to remember there are basic rules taught for good reasons.
Since there is no definition of what constitutes ‘necessary’ when entering a hatched area it is open to opinion. In my opinion it can be necessary to enter the hatched area to safely perform an overtake. Regarding the junction I would agree not to overtake unless the view is good enough to see it it clear and poses no risk from vehicles emerging.
@@tinkertime7165 So are you saying the overtake was safe?
@@Grahamvfr do you think it was unsafe?
There are a couple of things about the way i ride that tells me this and a bike safe would be a waste of time. I sit to the right of cars so drivers can see me. When I'm taking a left corner especially in the countryside im slowing and moving to the left not moving wide to the right to "see further down the road" i know 3 people that have been seriously injured being over to the right when a loon in a car speeds round the corner. Secondly i hated the overtake. If im overtaking a car and it speeds up a bit I'm not going to slow overtake I'm going to drop a gear and speed up. Following speed limits is great until you need to complete an overtake quick then its safety first. Certificates to say you did well on a test is a nice idea i prefer ride well all the time. I know someone who passed IAM and rospa then crashed when a van slowed down coming upto a road on the right and then suddenly indicated right she had went to overtake slammed brakes dumped bike.
Great video, I'm just about to start my IAM with my 1st observed ride next week. Great to see what's expected of you. Off to watch Kates video now!
Really good video, interesting to see and hear the observations of the ride. Very useful info. I'm currently preparing for 3 Yr ROSPA assessment, this video is a very good resource. Thanks to everyone for making it possible
Well done Kate , I never expected anything else than a 1st from you. 👍
She is putting the right feet on the ground while stoping. Which means she is using front brake.seems wrong to me. Only rear brake should be applied at stopping point
If you are giving instructions regarding which roundabout exit to take, its better to say take 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th exit, instead of take the left, straight on or right turn etc
Interesting seeing it from an examiners point of view. I watched Kate's video first. I'm looking at advanced training but want to clock up a few more miles on my new to me Triumph Explorer first.
How did she not fail? Lots of positives , but repeated front braking to a stop, with right foot off the brake, should be a fail? Bad lane position on motorway, and that overtake on a junction? Tonnes of positives but surprised it got anywhere near a first. I would imagine some examiners would have failed this ride.
The comment about the braking and right foot is fair and in my opinion it's poor technique but as long as the correct result is achieved dose it really matter which technique is being used? A bit like steering and how you use the wheel whilst driving a car.
@@Aaron70235 but why is it bad technique? IMHO it’s because of the increased risk of losing the front end - unnecessarily. In fact, in my pre-test prep, I was told by an examiner they will actively check you’re only using the rear brake as you come to a stop. In your basic motorcycle test, I recollect you’re generally meant to put your left (near-side) foot down for this reason, and to leave you less exposed off-side. It’s a good debate though, always keen to get others opinions.
Being a BMW GS it probably had linked brakes with the handlebar lever operating both.
There's nothing wrong with right foot down. You need to be able to do either method. The important thing is coming to a smooth controlled stop without pogo-ing the front forks. For right foot down you need to be able to feather the front brake. Right foot down can also be so much more relaxing in busy stop/start town/city riding . In fact some police forces use/promote this technique. So many people get hung up about what foot is being used and it really isn't an issue.
Foot down doesn't really matter much on end result, Roadcraft and the IAM ARC both say about becoming proficient in using either or both feet in a controlled and smooth manner. But I definitely agree with the concerns around the result. Multiple instances of endangering herself, lack of control/smoothness, list goes on. My test was very similar to this (nowhere near as many unsafe maneuvers but the general vibe is the same), but I ended up with 1's and 2's across the board with an examiner who is known to be a bit harsh on results (amazing guy, he just has high standards)
I found the assessment of kate's test fairly accurate, apart from the now well covered controversial overtake , which was a rider error, but no one is perfect on the day of a test, and the fact that she seen her mistake herself during making it, gives a good indication that Kate well deserved her Pass.
I certainly wouldn't begrudge her the test marks/results.
Hi John, thanks for the video series. Its been a great help whilst getting started with my advanced training. Cheers 👍
Looked good to me well done Kate and big thanks to Reg Local ❤
Certainly a good all-round ride. Ideally should have demonstrated restraint when contemplating the white car overtake at the junction; although demonstrated classic overtakes as well. Problem is, if one element is questionable it usually means other elements can be too. e.g. A single questionable overtake can raise questions re: observations, planning & hazard management, anticipation, restraint/progress as well as 'overtaking'? Notwithstanding this overtake, the Rider consistently demonstrated a '1' representing 'commended' in all of these elements throughout the rest of the ride. Therefore I believe justified a F1RST being awarded to the Rider. Well done indeed.
Another excellent video, 'Reg'.
Very interesting to see both your and Kates video; I’ve gone through Advanced, Advanced Plus and recently completed my Masters plus I’m a LO; watching Kate riding would you say she’s actually close to Masters level? I only mention it because she looks pretty competent. Great to see an Advanced test on video!
I'd be interested how you justify the overtake not breaking any rules? Past 3 junctions on the right and it simply wasn't necessary. She's a good rider and I'm glad she passed, but not a first for me and probably should have been a fail
What's wrong with doing brake - gear - brake when doing the tight left hand turn from the 40? Having a bit of back brake on during a turn like that is recommended isn't it?
I watched Kates IAM training and her view of the test, it was really informative watching your view of then ride, cheers.
I thought it’s an automatic fail if you overtake opposite any junction or opening to premises? Ie outside the farm on the broken chevrons? It was when I watched the TeapotOne video with the Metropolitan police bike cop🤔
Not necessarily, or it depends.
Is it safe, was it appropriate?
@@alanbrown5593 wasn’t safe in this instance!! That car could have done a last second turn into the property on right…I certainly wouldn’t have carried out that move there…..
@@TwoFourCharlie007 The angle could be deceptive, at the speed of the car it is very unlikely it could slow/turn in time. Not saying impossible just unlikely.
We all have our own little pet issues, if I was being hypercritical not modifying/changing position in respect of oncoming traffic.
Overall, a safe competent ride, demonstrating the application of the system. It took a lot of courage, on both, to post the test, due to some less enlightened individuals.
@@alanbrown5593‘…it depends’ 😂
Whenever I read/hear this, it just deters me from undertaking the IAM path of enlightenment and the hard earned money saved can be better spent on other pursuits.
@@colingreen2320 Whatever form of additional training you choose just go do it.
Isn't super sexy, but may save your life.
i subscribe to both you and kate...decided to watch yours first, really good video and insight into what the examiner looks for, i passed with Dennis a couple of years ago...think its time for a refresher
The fact with this video is that both are TH-cam folk, he obtained special permission for preferential treatment during her test, if he'd have either failed her or marked her down his channel may have been bombarded with negative comments and he may have lost some subscribers. He even allowed her to stop midway through the test to change her batteries!! What the hell is all that about? 😳
Just had an EHRS evaluation and the criteria set on my feedback log was 10x more savage and scrutinising than that!
Great video Reg and well done Kate. Is there any chance of filming an IAM car test please
Congratulations Usernamekate and thank you for sharing 😊
To be fair to both Reg/Kate I will look forward to watching it and Kates video on a bigger screen.I am not convinced that having 4 seperate observers is a good idea.....while every day is a school day,doctors differ-patients die.
re: 2 second rule then dropping back further being a problem. 2 seconds is minimum safe distance, why would you use that as a hard and fast rule for every occasion? Overtake at 21.00 was plain bad and just use an intercom for crying out loud!
WoW that was brilliant , will be applying to do myself on the strength of this video, pity I didn't live up you way ..Thanks .
Curiously, when this video was highlighted to IAM, they tried to distance themselves from it.
Nonsense. The IAM gave us permission to film, were consulted throughout, saw the video before it was published & gave their full support.
@@RegLocal Your experience may be true (I didn't say it wasn't). But I can send you the email that demonstrates as true what I was sent. I have since had another email from IAM that is hardly supportive of the video. So now it seems, based on what you and IAM say, that there is internal conflict. Hardly a basis for me to have confidence in the scheme. UPDATE: a few hours later, they decided in a third email they *were* aware and supported the video after all! So, examiner 2, IAM 0. I'm happy to send you the emails and the comments made.
Thank you. Good to see the footage from Kate & yourself.
good ride definitely a pass but not a 1st IMO , confirms my view that the standard is getting lower.
Kate seemed to ride on her test so confidently. I enjoyed watching and definitely spurs me on to do mine! Well done Kate :)
You should!
Great result for Kate. Interesting that she got a first with a 2 in one section. Is a First based on overall but not necessarily perfect. Not detracting from her result. She did great. Just curiosity. Hope I get a good result for 2023 too.
A first is all 1s ,
@@RichieRides Not necessarily, my son got a 2 for one item, but due to his overall demeanor and attitude the Examiner decided to grant him a F1rst (car), which I never hear the end off., according to him I sat my test on a horse and cart !
@@RichieRides that’s what I thought. Again, not putting Kate down. It was a good ride. Just strange that she was awarded a First where there was inconsistency in the 1’s
@@RichieRides It's not all 1s
A F1rst can be awarded if, apart from a couple of non safety-related 2's, all the rest are 1's. If she'd gotten all 1's but pickep up a solitary 2 for something regarding safety then she would not have been awarded the F1rst. Her 2's weren't safety-related so examiner discretion was applied.
I'd be interested having watched Kate's video, on your opinion of the overtake. She overtook, past a junction on the nearside, on chevrons, which you described as 'agricultural'. Throughout the ride, the positioning was less than perfect, and yet you awarded a first. Having passed with a first myself, I am interested to know what constitutes not getting awarded it? Kate, who is a very experienced rider, thought it was so bad that she had failed overall with the move, and yet she was awarded the 'rare' first. Interested to know your thoughts on this?
Unless you’re in the examiner’s seat, I guess you don’t get the same perspective. But as it is, a strange award for that ride. Would love to hear the examiner’s explanation to some of the points raised.
Yes the Highway code states entering hatching s, is OK 'if necessary' but an overtake wouldn't be deemed as necessary, as those hatchings are specifically to protect the oncoming right turners.
Currently doing my masters. Don't think thr hatches are massively relevant here, I agree it wasn't on, and the positioning did improve but I missed out on a f1rst my first time around for exactly those issues...
For what it's worth, I can see why and fully agree with Reg's decision from what I saw here. Confident and safe ride, overall application of the system was good. There is no perfect ride and I don't think you should have to ride one to get it, having a 1️⃣ for an area like position is about it being _consistent_ throughout the ride. Consistency is not the same thing as perfection (not having any tiny error in judgement or nerves getting in the way).
Just my 2p and I'm not an examiner, reg is, he was there, and I think his judgement of the overall ride was probably spot on.
Great work Kate, absolutely stoked for you well done and happy riding 🎉🏍️
@@Grahamvfr Yes but being necessary can be a subjective word. What some would consider necessary others wouldn't / There is no legality in the statement at all except to possibly convey its use when necessary to avoid dangerous or difficult situation or collision or accident/incident where life would be at risk. Otherwise necessary could mean just being late for being home for tea.
@@rcraven1013Thank you, We are talking advanced riders here remember, and i can assure you in a court of law, illegal or not illegal, suggesting crossing hatchings was necessary because you were late for tea would not evade a charge of driving without due care and attention, if a situation arose. Not forgetting that even on a dvsa (learner) test, that would be marked as serious fault in those circumstances.
In your subjective opinion then, was Kates overtake necessary?
REALLY really valuable resources - thanks Kate and John for your videos! The running commentary and the visuals offered such great insight! I'm hoping to do advanced training to become a Blood Biker in the New Year. One query: when stopped at a junction, why do you ground your right leg? This was done consistently throughout the test (see 33:27 for example). What are the benefits? I was under the impression (wrongly or rightly!) that one should lower your left leg and cover the back brake (to stop the bike rolling, help with hill starts, etc.). In Ireland, you are penalised in your driving test for lowering your right leg first (you can check that you're in the correct gear, of course, if you need to give the gear shifter a wiggle). Does forward planning not mean that you should drop into first gear - ready to pull off - ahead of coming to a complete stop? Just wondering if grounding your right leg is an advanced technique? Thanks
I was taught to use the rear brake when coming to a halt (generally) and thus put my left foot down. I don’t think it matters which brake you cover when at a standstill, but I do typically cover the rear. To be using the front brake to pull up goes against what I was taught. For me, the crazy overtake should have resulted in a fail, certainky not a F1rst pass. No wonder the candidate thought she’d failed, I really don't know what was going on there.
As a cyclist ( 🙂 ) I would characterise the overtake at 29:10 as prudent, not hesitant. Highway Code says "give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders and horse drawn vehicles at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car" and I doubt you'd have gone down the centerline to overtake a car at that spot with oncoming traffic.
Hi Reg/John, as a very recent mid-life crisis new biker, I've been working my way through all of your biking videos and feel that I have learned a lot, so a massage thank you. I've been fortunate to receive advanced driver training by ex-police drivers in the past during my employment and have the utmost respect for the skills and knowledge that you/they possess and your/their willingness to help others. I then arrive at this video and I would be curious to know what I am, and others are, expected to take away from this. I will not give my opinions on the ride or the result but what I will say is that I know the value of advanced training but I think there is a genuine risk here that this video will discourage riders from progressing their rider skills, moreover through the IAM.
This is the second time I have watched this video, but the first time I have read through all the comments afterwards. I am saddened by all the negative comments and criticism that Reg received. Sure, Kates ride wasn't 100% perfect, but neither is any ones ride (mine included).
It is the examiners decision what they award a candidate, and if he felt Kate deserved a first, then that is the right decision on the day. It is all to easy to pass judgement from the comfort of our homes watching a PC screen.
FANTASTIC REJ LOCAL! on point, grounded and fantastic natural abilities buddy!
Aside from various ongoing elements of the riding throughout which would negate a 1st, I was surprised with the first overtake at 11.27 which surely required a shoulder check?
Very good though the rest of Kate's ride was, I can't see how that very misjudged overtake and the "2" for positioning allows a F1rst. Other than that, excellent job Kate.
Excellent thanks. Good to see it from an examiners point of view esp with the commentary. 👍
Awesome ride -i think I will have to do this course !
Great commentary. More instructive than your own riding vids, actually. Must be dispiriting to read the comments that dispute your assessment. They weren’t there, you were. And we’ll done Kate. It’s unnerving being examined like that (I have been) and can impair ones ride considerably.
a lot on here have been there, that's why there's comments.
Enjoyed watching the Vid I’m a National Observer for the IAM so it was interesting to see the examiners take on the ride. I got myMasters with Distinction a few years back so look forward to seeking nag your Masters Video for bikes. Keep up the good work I’ve recently started my own channel and go out riding all year round so I can see the benefit of your advice. One day we may end up meeting Hope m channel will be as successful as yours
Hello John / Reg - I've been watching your videos in preparation for my ROSPA exam in a couple of weeks . They're great thanks very much . I mean this with all due respect as I'm not an expert, but I must say I'm suprised , given my recent experience, that the much discussed overtake just after 20 mins was ' on ' considering the junction on the right, and that the view into it was restricted? Surely that was a bit dodgy or am I missing something ?
The overtake at 21.00 min was unnecessary and dangerous.
Good video. Thanks. Just curious as to which side of the bike the rear brake pedal is on? I saw a lot of right foot down which should be covering the rear brake surely?
Why should it?
I am looking forward to taking my test but I feel I need a little more riding time before I pay for the rides and test. Great video as always 👍
I'm intrigued to hear how there was no comment at Kates persistent use of her right leg. When I was taught (2016/17) it was the case, when stationary, the left leg should be down while the right leg maintains or covers the rear brake. This test seemed more lenient than an examined initial road test in my view.
Hi Stephen, It's actively promoted in IAM's to be able to stop and put either foot down so that you can deal with different cambers on the road and also it removes the need for the 'Hendon shuffle'.
@@Nexus30 So would I be disadvantaged if I wanted my advanced test? it makes sense to me to have the brake covered and that is my habit which I'd not want to brake. I only put my right leg down when stationary in traffic with the left also, to stand up and stretch, bike always in neutral.
@@stephenblair5236 I'm not an IAM's examiner but they do say that its a good skill to have but you wouldn't fail if you couldn't do it. The theory is that with the right foot down you can sit in neutral with the front brake applied and your left foot on the peg ready to quickly engage first should you need to quickly get out of the way or simply to give the clutch some sympathy at the traffic lights that take an age to change.
@@Nexus30 i wish i could get that route, all then left turns, nice and quite, not a lot going on on that route.
Your decision for which leg to land on should be made on what you intend to do next. If it's anything more than a momentary stop you should be landing on your right leg, front brake on and bike in neutral. For momentary stops perhaps at junctions, your planning should be for your intended direction of travel - if you're turning right, then landing on your right leg will have the bike already angled towards your next course - land on your left leg to angle the bike left for left turns - hope that helps - cheers - Dale
Great video really enjoyed that one , she did a great ride fair play to her , going look at it from her point on usernamekate .
Thanks for sharing this with us 👍
Excellent. My favourite upload to date.
overlapping as part of a planned approach is fine according to IAM observers handbook, and even mentions changing gears towards the end of braking, this matches with the police roadcraft handbook who in 3 examples mention changing down toward sthe end of braking, just wondering why you see it differently - it looked like the time you mentioned it was planned, the gear change was not to brake the bike and it was towards the end of the braking.?
At 30.00 we are the Belmont road and its a 50 mph speed limit. Kate and Reg are obviously doing only 44 mph by his speedo and he mentions the poss. of an overtake which Kate didn't make. However if the speedos are over reading by an allowance of 2 mph plus 10% then even tho one is only doing 44 mph [ real speed maybe only 40 mph ] one could accelerate to a speed shown on your speedo as 57 mph. [ rear speed of around 50 mph' ] and that is certainly fast enough to overtake. However she did well and better part of discretion decided that at that moment in time not to do so. Well done.
@reg local I’d be interested in hearing your (& IAMs) take on right foot down. I know best practice tells us we should be covering that rear bake, what are your views? Don’t tend to do it myself unless the road camber dictates I have to.